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Brian26
12-08-2007, 02:53 PM
Hypothetical situation here. Let's say the Sox have an opportunity, based on their financial constraints and bargaining chips they have available for trade, to pick up only two of the guys listed below.

Brian Roberts
Rowand
Fukudome
Figgins

Who do you take? In the case of Roberts and Figgins, who do the Sox need to give up? What's the lineup, with positions, when all is said and done on Opening Day.

Does this salvage the winter?

My answer:
The Sox offer Crede arbitration and agree on a one-year contract. The Sox have to wait until Spring Training to prove to othe clubs that Crede can play. He's dealt to LAA along with prospects for Figgins.

The Sox sign Rowand.

Opening Day lineup:

1 Figgins LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynski C
7 Rowand CF
8 Fields 3B
9 Richar 2B

JermaineDye05
12-08-2007, 02:59 PM
Hypothetical situation here. Let's say the Sox have an opportunity, based on their financial constraints and bargaining chips they have available for trade, to pick up only two of the guys listed below.

Brian Roberts
Rowand
Fukudome
Figgins

Who do you take? In the case of Roberts and Figgins, who do the Sox need to give up? What's the lineup, with positions, when all is said and done on Opening Day.

Does this salvage the winter?

My answer:
The Sox offer Crede arbitration and agree on a one-year contract. The Sox have to wait until Spring Training to prove to othe clubs that Crede can play. He's dealt to LAA along with prospects for Figgins.

The Sox sign Rowand.

Opening Day lineup:

1 Figgins LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynski C
7 Rowand CF
8 Fields 3B
9 Richar 2B

It may just be me, but I'd bat Fields a little higher in that lineup. Maybe 6th or 7th.

soxfanreggie
12-08-2007, 02:59 PM
I wouldn't mind having Figgins and Rowand, but it will certainly cost us. Are we willing to pay the price? If you can find a CF who bats leadoff, that's two birds with one stone. If you go with Rowand in CF, you're most likely bringing in a leadoff LF.

UserNameBlank
12-08-2007, 03:04 PM
OMG a trade idea for Figgins that does NOT involve Konerko!

I don't want any of these guys. Fukudome is going to cost a ton; way too much to throw to an unproven player. Rowand is a magical wizard, but I wouldn't pay him because I don't believe in that crap. Figgins would likely be a defensive liability anywhere we put him and isn't worth the moon, which is what the Angels will likely be asking for. They seem determined to hold on to as many powerless position players as possible. Roberts would be nice but not for the price. He'd demand at least one, probably two, of Gio/Danks/Floyd/Broadway on top of a position player and maybe even something else. Besides, I like Richar. He looks like he's going to be pretty good.

DickAllen72
12-08-2007, 03:04 PM
If I can only have two, I'd take Roberts and Fukudome.

However, just about any combination of those names make the Sox much better.

Hitmen77
12-08-2007, 03:05 PM
Hypothetical situation here. Let's say the Sox have an opportunity, based on their financial constraints and bargaining chips they have available for trade, to pick up only two of the guys listed below.

Brian Roberts
Rowand
Fukudome
Figgins

Who do you take? In the case of Roberts and Figgins, who do the Sox need to give up? What's the lineup, with positions, when all is said and done on Opening Day.

Does this salvage the winter?

My answer:
The Sox offer Crede arbitration and agree on a one-year contract. The Sox have to wait until Spring Training to prove to othe clubs that Crede can play. He's dealt to LAA along with prospects for Figgins.

The Sox sign Rowand.

Opening Day lineup:

1 Figgins LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynski C
7 Rowand CF
8 Fields 3B
9 Richar 2B

I think that's a solid lineup. Question: How much would we have to give up (aside from Crede) in order to get Figgins?

Also, I'm assuming that under this plan, Quentin and Owens would be our 4th and 5th OF.

DickAllen72
12-08-2007, 03:08 PM
Besides, I like Richar. He looks like he's going to be pretty good.
I agree, I like Richar too and I think he may be a very good player. But if the Sox can obtain Roberts along with a couple of other acquisitions to try to contend this year, I say go for it. You have to give something to get something.

getonbckthr
12-08-2007, 03:13 PM
0. Because they don't catch us up to Detroit, Boston, NYY and Anaheim. I think financially and prospect wise its too much of a chance without a confident payoff.

Daver
12-08-2007, 03:49 PM
Opening Day lineup:

1 Figgins LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynski C
7 Rowand CF
8 Fields 3B
9 Richar 2B

So you are proposing a third baseman playing left, a left fielder playing center, and a declining right fielder in Dye, and a mediocre at best third baseman. I don't see that team competing for much.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2007, 03:57 PM
So you are proposing a third baseman playing left, a left fielder playing center, and a declining right fielder in Dye, and a mediocre at best third baseman. I don't see that team competing for much.

Figgins is a utility guy who can play pretty much every position and has shown to play the outfielder very well. Rowand is a proven center fielder who has won a gold glove (probably should have won two), even though you have a grudge with him I don't see how you can argue that he's not a center fielder. Josh Fields is about average right now at 3rd but will only get better over time, and his bat is such a presence in the lineup. The only thing I agree with you on this is that Dye is declining in right. The rest is well bs.

Lukin13
12-08-2007, 04:00 PM
So you are proposing a third baseman playing left, a left fielder playing center, and a declining right fielder in Dye, and a mediocre at best third baseman. I don't see that team competing for much.


You mean if Fukudome is in center right??

Rowand while at times is overated as a defender; he is plenty servicable in CF.

Daver
12-08-2007, 04:11 PM
Figgins is a utility guy who can play pretty much every position and has shown to play the outfielder very well. Rowand is a proven center fielder who has won a gold glove (probably should have won two), even though you have a grudge with him I don't see how you can argue that he's not a center fielder. Josh Fields is about average right now at 3rd but will only get better over time, and his bat is such a presence in the lineup. The only thing I agree with you on this is that Dye is declining in right. The rest is well bs.

If you want to believe that a Gold Glove is a purely defensive award, go right ahead, but if it were Mark Buerhle would win it every year. Fields has been playing third since HS, he's about as good as he is gonna get at third, which is mediocre no matter how you slice it, and I don't think a utility infielder is a good idea in left.

You mean if Fukudome is in center right??

Rowand while at times is overated as a defender; he is plenty servicable in CF.

He's serviceable if you have a very good right fielder, and a fairly good left fielder, the line up mentioned has neither.

gregory18n
12-08-2007, 04:15 PM
i'd take Roberts & Fukudome

Brian26
12-08-2007, 04:45 PM
So you are proposing a third baseman playing left, a left fielder playing center, and a declining right fielder in Dye, and a mediocre at best third baseman. I don't see that team competing for much.

If you're going to give me a hard time about Dye in RF, then the discussion isn't going to go very far since he's locked in with a no-trade clause to begin with.

If the Sox keep Crede, then Fields is going to an "infielder playing leftfield" anyway, since I don't see them trading Fields and his small contract right now.

Tell me how you would fix it based on limited bargaining chips. It's a fun discussion.

Daver
12-08-2007, 04:53 PM
If you're going to give me a hard time about Dye in RF, then the discussion isn't going to go very far since he's locked in with a no-trade clause to begin with.

If the Sox keep Crede, then Fields is going to an "infielder playing leftfield" anyway, since I don't see them trading Fields and his small contract right now.

Tell me how you would fix it based on limited bargaining chips. It's a fun discussion.


I wasn't giving you a hard time about JD, I was merely pointing out the fact that he is not the defensive player he used to be.

BadBobbyJenks
12-08-2007, 04:55 PM
So you are proposing a third baseman playing left, a left fielder playing center, and a declining right fielder in Dye, and a mediocre at best third baseman. I don't see that team competing for much.


What is your solution?

Brian26
12-08-2007, 05:19 PM
I wasn't giving you a hard time about JD, I was merely pointing out the fact that he is not the defensive player he used to be.

I don't disagree with you.

ericiii
12-08-2007, 05:22 PM
Opening Day lineup:

1 Figgins LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynski C
7 Rowand CF
8 Fields 3B
9 Richar 2B

The lineup looks nice and all, but let's look at the other end of this equation:

Mark Buehrle
Javier Vazquez
Contreras (?)
Danks (?)
Floyd (?)

Bullpen - Question marks everywhere except Jenks and Linebrink

...I thought pitching and defense won championships

Daver
12-08-2007, 05:28 PM
What is your solution?

Put the best defensive team I can behind what will be some very inexperienced starting pitching.

ericiii
12-08-2007, 05:32 PM
Also, here are some statistics from the past few seasons:

YEAR W L RS RA
2007 72 90 693 839
2006 90 72 868 794
2005 99 63 741 645


As you can see, we only scored 50 less runs last year vs 2005, but we allowed almost 200 more runs last year vs 2005. We need to stop worrying about hitting and worry more about pitching!!!

getonbckthr
12-08-2007, 05:45 PM
Put the best defensive team I can behind what will be some very inexperienced starting pitching.
We (Sox) blew that when we (Sox) thought we were too good for Andruw Jones

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 05:47 PM
Hypothetical situation here. Let's say the Sox have an opportunity, based on their financial constraints and bargaining chips they have available for trade, to pick up only two of the guys listed below.

Brian Roberts
Rowand
Fukudome
Figgins

Does this salvage the winter?


Ok...I would go with Roberts and Rowand. I think I would have to be assured I could extend Roberts's contract through 2010, but I think that we'd have a great middle of the field then--A little weak defensively in CF, but strong in the infield. Frankly, I go with Rowand because he's a known commodity and likely won't be more expensive than Fukudome. Or at least not much more. Further you know you'll likely get league average (or better) hitting and above average defense. Wonderful.

Imo, if we could do that that would put us in great position for 09. 08 would still be a real uphill battle, but I could see us at least staying in contention for a little while. But for what it does for us in 09, I think I'd definitely consider the offseason a success--especially if we extend Cabrera.

As for who we'd have to give up to get Roberts, I wouldn't mind parting with, say Broadway and Sweeney, plus another prospect. However, I'm not sure the O's would take that. I wouldn't be happy giving up Gio for him.

Tragg
12-08-2007, 05:47 PM
As you can see, we only scored 50 less runs last year vs 2005, but we allowed almost 200 more runs last year vs 2005. We need to stop worrying about hitting and worry more about pitching!!!
Better defense, too. We've put some crap defensive teams out there the last 2 years. Defense was so key to the Championship that it's suprising that it now gets short shrift.

Brian26
12-08-2007, 05:50 PM
As you can see, we only scored 50 less runs last year vs 2005, but we allowed almost 200 more runs last year vs 2005.

I think 150 of those runs were on Opening Day and in that Minnesota doubleheader. :D:

rowand33
12-08-2007, 07:56 PM
I think I'd have to go with Rowand and Roberts.

I think Roberts has more value to us than Figgins because he's a 2B (sorry Richar...), and pick Rowand over Fukudome just because he's MLB tested.

Lineup:

Roberts 2B
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Fields 3B
Rowand CF
AJ C
Quentin LF

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-08-2007, 08:22 PM
i'd take Roberts & Fukudome

Ditto...It's an easy choice.

1) Roberts - 2B
2) Cabrera - SS
3) Thome - DH
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Fukudome - CF
6) Dye - RF
7) Fields - 3B
8) Quentin - LF
9) AJ - C

Daver
12-08-2007, 08:31 PM
Ditto...It's an easy choice.

1) Roberts - 2B
2) Cabrera - SS
3) Thome - DH
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Fukudome - DH
6) Dye - RF
7) Fields - 3B
8) Quentin - LF
9) AJ - C


Hmm, play with two DH's and no center fielder. I like it.

rowand33
12-08-2007, 08:36 PM
Hmm, play with two DH's and no center fielder. I like it.

Didn't we try that with Machowiak?

Daver
12-08-2007, 08:49 PM
Didn't we try that with Machowiak?

The Sox won a World Series with a left fielder playing center, it's worth a try.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2007, 09:23 PM
The Sox won a World Series with a left fielder playing center, it's worth a try.

I'm curious as to what makes you think Rowand is a left fielder, his career .989 FP in center?

Daver
12-08-2007, 09:27 PM
I'm curious as to what makes you think Rowand is a left fielder, his career .989 FP in center?

His inability to read the ball off the bat, his crappy ability to throw the ball accurately, and his uncanny knack of never knowing where he is on the field tells me he is a left fielder. Outfielders that stub their face on the wall on a regular basis really should play left.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2007, 10:01 PM
His inability to read the ball off the bat, his crappy ability to throw the ball accurately, and his uncanny knack of never knowing where he is on the field tells me he is a left fielder. Outfielders that stub their face on the wall on a regular basis really should play left.

The center fielder is supposed to be the captain of the outfield. Juan Pierre doesn't have that presence neither does Chone Figgins. Rowand has that. I really think he'd be our best option in Center for 2008. I remember many times in 2005 when he saved Pods ass after he lost the ball in the lights.

Daver
12-08-2007, 10:03 PM
The center fielder is supposed to be the captain of the outfield. Juan Pierre doesn't have that presence neither does Chone Figgins. Rowand has that. I really think he'd be our best option in Center for 2008. I remember many times in 2005 when he saved Pods ass after he lost the ball in the lights.


The best option is Brian Anderson, he truly makes Rowand look like a hack in CF.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2007, 10:09 PM
The best option is Brian Anderson, he truly makes Rowand look like a hack in CF.

Brian is a great fielder, but I just worry about his attitude and his inability to hit a major league fastball. If he can prove he can play to the ability we all hope he could then I'm all for him playing in center. As of now Rowand seems like the best option, maybe not the cheapest. We at least know what we're getting with Aaron if we sign him. Brian is a big question mark, almost as big as Gavin.

DickAllen72
12-09-2007, 12:21 AM
The best option is Brian Anderson, he truly makes Rowand look like a hack in CF.
Especially when he fails to back up the corner outfielders and laughs after he lets a ball drop in front of him. :tongue:

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 02:00 PM
I'm curious as to what makes you think Rowand is a left fielder, his career .989 FP in center?

I'm curious as to what makes you think fielding percentage is anything but a boutique statistic

WhiteSox5187
12-09-2007, 02:23 PM
Brian is a great fielder, but I just worry about his attitude and his inability to hit a major league fastball. If he can prove he can play to the ability we all hope he could then I'm all for him playing in center. As of now Rowand seems like the best option, maybe not the cheapest. We at least know what we're getting with Aaron if we sign him. Brian is a big question mark, almost as big as Gavin.
I also think that Anderson is not popular amongst his team mates, I have no evidence of that other than what I think. But Ozzie certainly doesn't like him and he DID replace one of the most popular guys in the clubhouse and from what I have read he might have a bit of an attitude problem and I'm sure that rubbed a lot of guys the wrong way. But that's just idle speculation.

However out of that list I'd take Roberts and I would probably take Rowand because I think he would be cheaper than Fukodome, we also KNOW what we're going to get out of Rowand where Fukodome is a bit more of a question mark. I don't know who we would ahve to give up to get Roberts and from what I'm reading it doesn't sound like we have much of a chance to get him, but he'd be an ideal leadoff guy for me.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-09-2007, 02:37 PM
Hmm, play with two DH's and no center fielder. I like it.

Opps, my mistake. Fukudome is CF in my lineup.