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View Full Version : Finally Anderson acts like a professional...


DrCrawdad
12-07-2007, 08:33 AM
You've got to love it when your agent says something like this and it gets printed in the newspaper (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071206sox,1,6410165.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)...

"For the first time, Brian is approaching this like a professional. He works out twice a day and doesn't go out at night. He's working with a top professional trainer and with a nutritionist. He's very focused." - Brian Anderson's agent, Terry Bross

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2005/12/05/8fDi8mmO.jpg
Thanks a lot Mr. Agent.

balke
12-07-2007, 08:37 AM
Brian Anderson taking things seriously might be the only hope the Sox have right now if there's any kind of injury this season. I still like his potential, and root for him to break-out. Some players bloom a lot later than others. Of course that arguments been beaten to death again and again.

The Sox need OFers, time for the guys in the minors to step up big. Last season was beyond ugly.

voodoochile
12-07-2007, 08:41 AM
I wonder if shortly before all this happened they had a discussion...

TB: Uh... Brian, do you really WANT to be a highly paid professional baseball player?

BA: Of course I do. Why would anyone thing differently?

TB: Uh...Because you are acting like this is HS and you're the king of the prom.

BA: Can't I be both?

TB: Sure you can, ARod is. Jeter is. Many others are, but first you have to play like a superstar and that takes LOTS of hard work.

BA: Hard work? Oh damn...sigh...urk...okay, I'll do it... You promise there will be babes and booze when I come out the other side a stud?

TB: All you can want and more...

btrain929
12-07-2007, 08:44 AM
This is looking a few years down the road, but if these young guys bust their ass and can reach their full potential by repeated at bats in AAA or the majors, imagine an outfield of Quentin, Anderson, and Sweeney, with Owens as a 4th OF'er. Their cheap, talented, will display great defense, and could give some decent power. I know we're really really far from that being a possibility, but it's definitely fun to think about for down the road...

DrCrawdad
12-07-2007, 08:46 AM
Brian Anderson taking things seriously might be the only hope the Sox have right now if there's any kind of injury this season. I still like his potential, and root for him to break-out. Some players bloom a lot later than others. Of course that arguments been beaten to death again and again.

The Sox need OFers, time for the guys in the minors to step up big. Last season was beyond ugly.

I agree.

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 08:51 AM
He would be the starting center fielder if he could hit.

DrCrawdad
12-07-2007, 08:53 AM
He would be the starting center fielder if he could hit.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060520/060520_brawl_vlarge_12p.widec.jpg
Another swing and a miss!

tebman
12-07-2007, 09:01 AM
He would be the starting center fielder if he could hit.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060520/060520_brawl_vlarge_12p.widec.jpg
Another swing and a miss!

:rolling:

salty99
12-07-2007, 09:13 AM
So is he playing winter ball or not?

skottyj242
12-07-2007, 09:14 AM
He's got a kick ass tattoo.

Corlose 15
12-07-2007, 09:16 AM
So is he playing winter ball or not?

I believe that he's focusing on getting his wrist healthy and then deciding on whether or not to go to Mexico and possibly could. At least, that's what I've read.

DrCrawdad
12-07-2007, 09:22 AM
I wonder if shortly before all this happened they had a discussion...

TB: Uh... Brian, do you really WANT to be a highly paid professional baseball player?

BA: Of course I do. Why would anyone thing differently?

TB: Uh...Because you are acting like this is HS and you're the king of the prom.

BA: Can't I be both?

TB: Sure you can, ARod is. Jeter is. Many others are, but first you have to play like a superstar and that takes LOTS of hard work.

BA: Hard work? Oh damn...sigh...urk...okay, I'll do it... You promise there will be babes and booze when I come out the other side a stud?

TB: All you can want and more...

Money, babes and booze? If that's what motivates, then he's probably not too different from most young guys. But you're probably right in that no doubt success in (non-professional) baseball came rather easily for Anderson but to succeed in MLB it may take natural gifts/abilities AND hard work for him to succeed.

ChiSoxPatF
12-07-2007, 09:24 AM
:?:
For the first time, he's working out? Is this representative of the top prospects we are developing in our minor league system? :o:

THIS IS THE GUY WE BANKED CENTERFIELD ON FOR TWO SEASON!? :angry:

oeo
12-07-2007, 09:25 AM
Hey, if he grows up, we may actually have a centerfielder.

balke
12-07-2007, 09:27 AM
:?:
For the first time, he's working out? Is this representative of the top prospects we are developing in our minor league system? :o:

THIS IS THE GUY WE BANKED CENTERFIELD ON FOR TWO SEASON!? :angry:

This is also coming from an agent who is trying to spin his image from what's been reported in the papers. I'm sure he's always worked out, and his agent is merely stating that he's doing new things like seeing a nutritionist, etc. Hopefully if going out was a problem, he is doing that less. The guy has great talent, and he won't get better hitting unless he's seriously dedicated.

peeonwrigley
12-07-2007, 09:35 AM
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060520/060520_brawl_vlarge_12p.widec.jpg
Another swing and a miss!

I'll take BA's swing and miss over whatever kind of slap manuever Mabry is attempting.:D:

soxfan21
12-07-2007, 09:36 AM
I'll take BA's swing and miss over whatever kind of slap manuever Mabry is attempting.:D:



As would I.

Luke
12-07-2007, 09:44 AM
:?:
For the first time, he's working out? Is this representative of the top prospects we are developing in our minor league system? :o:

THIS IS THE GUY WE BANKED CENTERFIELD ON FOR TWO SEASON!? :angry:

Unfortunately, you can't make a guy workout if he doesn't want to. So many of these guys get by on talent, that they never have to work out.

That's not to say all of them, but that's the case for many.

RowanDye
12-07-2007, 10:38 AM
You've got to love it when your agent says something like this and it gets printed in the newspaper (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071206sox,1,6410165.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)...



http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2005/12/05/8fDi8mmO.jpg
Thanks a lot Mr. Agent.

Brian is only 1 yr. older than me, and I fully understand the learning process he is going through. Some of the same people who would welcome Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes, or Josh Hamilton on the team think that Brian Anderson should rot in hell. Doesn't a guy deserve a second chance if he is truly making the effort?

If you read the quote his agent does NOT say that this is the first time he is working out, that's extremely naive to think that. If you've been following Anderson's career you would know that he worked out last offseason, almost too much. His agent is speaking more about a sign of maturity, some inkling that Brian is approaching the game with a serious, professional commitment.

Of course his agent could be talking out of his ass, but all of you cynics need to just leave the guy alone and hold out some hope that you will pleasantly surprised this year.

Edit: Note that Anderson is also the same age as Carlos Quentin. Quentin only has slightly better #'s than Anderson, but many of you want to pencil him in as the LF or the 4th OF!

kitekrazy
12-07-2007, 10:43 AM
You've got to love it when your agent says something like this and it gets printed in the newspaper (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071206sox,1,6410165.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)...



http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2005/12/05/8fDi8mmO.jpg
Thanks a lot Mr. Agent.

I think he needs to spend more time with a batting instructor.

Nellie_Fox
12-07-2007, 10:44 AM
Some of the same people who would welcome Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes, or Josh Hamilton on the team think that Brian Anderson should rot in hell. Straw man argument. Name the people who would welcome Young, Dukes or Hamilton while simultaneously thinking Anderson should rot in hell.

Doesn't a guy deserve a second chance if he is truly making the effort? Absolutely. But when his own agent says "for the first time" in reference to acting like a professional, I think it points to a significant problem in his past behavior.

spiffie
12-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Well of course, now that evil Darin Erstad is gone, no longer force-feeding Anderson whiskey and holding him at gunpoint until he agreed to go hit the bars at night.

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 10:46 AM
Shouldn't this thread be in "Minor Observations"? :smile:

RowanDye
12-07-2007, 10:57 AM
Straw man argument. Name the people who would welcome Young, Dukes or Hamilton while simultaneously thinking Anderson should rot in hell.

Absolutely. But when his own agent says "for the first time" in reference to acting like a professional, I think it points to a significant problem in his past behavior.

Of course it's a straw man argument. The topic of Brian Anderson has never been anything but overstated on this board. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't welcome Young or Hamilton on this team though?

BTW, the whole point of a second chance is to forgive PAST transgressions in hopes that FUTURE behavior will be different.

Rocky Soprano
12-07-2007, 10:58 AM
Its good to hear Brian is finally getting it.
I for one think that Brian has the potential of becoming great.

His defense is fantastic and with some at bats I think his offense could be pretty good.

rowand33
12-07-2007, 11:00 AM
Absolutely. But when his own agent says "for the first time" in reference to acting like a professional, I think it points to a significant problem in his past behavior.

I mean... he's a kid, right?

I'm not making excuses for him, but he's a kid that didn't understand the responsibility facing him.

As a 23 year old in that's been in the real world for 5 months, I can understand where he's coming from.

Give the guy a break.

Every Sox fan should hope Brian Anderson succeeds. I think Floyd sucks, but I won't be actively rooting against him next year. People on here appear to actively root against Anderson.

Seeing as how we're probably screwed next year barring a master stroke by KW, I really hope all of the kids grew up a lot over the offseason.

I'm elated to hear news that maybe Brian did.

oeo
12-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Every Sox fan should hope Brian Anderson succeeds. I think Floyd sucks, but I won't be actively rooting against him next year. People on here appear to actively root against Anderson.

I've never seen anyone root against him. If you're rooting against him, you're a troll.

People think he's a bust, and he has major attitude problems, but I don't think anyone is hoping he fails. Except Ozzie, of course.

DrCrawdad
12-07-2007, 11:15 AM
...when his own agent says "for the first time" in reference to acting like a professional, I think it points to a significant problem in his past behavior.

Exactly!

I think I understand what the agent was trying to say but point in fact what he said was not flattering for Anderson. I'm all for honesty and candor but in this case if it was honesty and candor it doesn't really reflect well on Brian.

Unlike what was stated by another poster, I am rooting for Brian Anderson, just as I have for nearly every (hyped?) Sox prospect to come along in my years as a Sox fan.

By comparison, I don't think I ever would have heard comments similar to what Anderson's agent said in reference to Joe Borchard. Clearly things are not working well for Borhcard but I don't think anyone questions his professionalism and commitment to his career. Borchard apparently has the right work ethic but lacks the needed gift to hit MLB pitching. I think that Anderson probably has more of that "gift" than Borchard. Too bad the professional work ethic is missing.

jabrch
12-07-2007, 11:23 AM
I hope BA materializes into the player we know he CAN be. But the player he has been so far is a disappointment.

The Sox management, as well as fans, WANT BA to succeed, but he needs to do his part - he has not done that to-date.

kittle42
12-07-2007, 11:27 AM
He still sucks.

Grzegorz
12-07-2007, 11:54 AM
His emergence would solve part of the personnel issue that this team faces in 2008. I hope this change in attitude bears fruit for him and the Chicago White Sox.

Nellie_Fox
12-07-2007, 11:58 AM
I mean... he's a kid, right?

I'm not making excuses for him, but he's a kid that didn't understand the responsibility facing him.

As a 23 year old in that's been in the real world for 5 months, I can understand where he's coming from.

Give the guy a break.

Every Sox fan should hope Brian Anderson succeeds. I think Floyd sucks, but I won't be actively rooting against him next year. People on here appear to actively root against Anderson.

Seeing as how we're probably screwed next year barring a master stroke by KW, I really hope all of the kids grew up a lot over the offseason.

I'm elated to hear news that maybe Brian did.I'm not terribly sympathetic to the "he's only a kid" argument. I turned 21 in Viet Nam, and I was already a sergeant. I had to grow up pretty quickly.

These guys are being paid more than I'll ever dream of making, many of them making more in a year than I'll make in my whole life. It's not too much to expect them to comport themselves professionally for that kind of money, and the trade off for them is public scrutiny and criticism.

I absolutely would love to see Anderson grow up and become the answer to the center field problem, but I see his failure to do so up to this point to be on his shoulders, not on management.

EMachine10
12-07-2007, 12:09 PM
He had a nice spring last year, and if he comes out and has another really good showing this year, I really wouldn't mind having him start in center with owens our 4th OF.

Instead of getting a leftover OF this winter, get a SP instead

Lip Man 1
12-07-2007, 12:11 PM
I saw that quote today from Mark Gonzales and it did cause me to pause, read and re-read the quote.

It is a damming remark when it comes from an agent.

Hopefully this season, Brian, wherever he is, will do more things like check out tape of the opposing starting pitcher instead of watching TV in the clubhouse.

We'll see.

Lip

munchman33
12-07-2007, 12:14 PM
I can't wait for the friends of BA to spin this and say that Ozzie must have put BA's agent up to this.

Paulwny
12-07-2007, 12:26 PM
I'm not terribly sympathetic to the "he's only a kid" argument. I turned 21 in Viet Nam, and I was already a sergeant. I had to grow up pretty quickly.

These guys are being paid more than I'll ever dream of making, many of them making more in a year than I'll make in my whole life. It's not too much to expect them to comport themselves professionally for that kind of money, and the trade off for them is public scrutiny and criticism.

I absolutely would love to see Anderson grow up and become the answer to the center field problem, but I see his failure to do so up to this point to be on his shoulders, not on management.


Yep, things are different now. I was surprised the agent didn't say his prior attitude was not of his creation but was created by some event or person in his childhood.
Don't forget people are no longer resposible for their actions. Ask any lawyer.

goon
12-07-2007, 12:30 PM
I'm not terribly sympathetic to the "he's only a kid" argument. I turned 21 in Viet Nam, and I was already a sergeant. I had to grow up pretty quickly.

These guys are being paid more than I'll ever dream of making, many of them making more in a year than I'll make in my whole life. It's not too much to expect them to comport themselves professionally for that kind of money, and the trade off for them is public scrutiny and criticism.

I absolutely would love to see Anderson grow up and become the answer to the center field problem, but I see his failure to do so up to this point to be on his shoulders, not on management.

Yeah, but people mature at different ages. My best friend had a full time job out of high school, while going to college, he was basically on his own at 18. Some kids are on their own at 15 or 16 years old, meanwhile, there are some people who don't have their lives figured out at 30 or older.

Also, I think our culture has changed quite over the last few decades, being 25 isn't nearly as "old" as it used to be. In the 70's my parents had a house, two children, a mortgage, etc. by that time. I'm 24, living in an apartment, just finishing up with school (GMAB, I started when I was 20).

I think a more appropriate argument for Anderson, if you want to give him the time of day, is that he took his position for granted. He was essentially handed the CF job after Rowand was traded and didn't seem to really put in the effort (specifically at the plate) until it was too late. Of course, some might say Ozzie had a vendetta with Brian from the beginning, but that's a can of worms I'd rather not open... I actually like Anderson's talent, he still needs to prove he can hit at the ML level, but defensively he's a stud and he plays for cheap.

russ99
12-07-2007, 12:38 PM
It's nice to see Brian wake up and smell the coffee, but I wonder how much of this is desperation trying to hold on to prospect status and not become a AAAA lifer or a journeyman outfielder...

It's obvious he tried and failed by coasting on his talent. And now that he's (externally, I may add) supposedly taking things seriously that's no guarantee he'll turn the corner and be able to live up to his potential as a major league hitter.

I have to question why the agent has to air this out in the press? If Brian really has matured and is willing to work hard, there's no need to broadcast it, just quietly work your ass off and prove it to the Sox or another team this spring...

JorgeFabregas
12-07-2007, 12:43 PM
He came into last year's camp with visibly more muscle than the year before.

You don't get that by not working out. Unless you're Sammy Sosa.

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 12:47 PM
He came into last year's camp with visibly more muscle than the year before.

You don't get that by not working out. Unless you're Sammy Sosa.

Mitchel report??????

slavko
12-07-2007, 12:52 PM
I love him in CF. Borchard was a klutz in the field, IMO. (just because his name was mentioned)

He hit for half a season in '06.

I can't see him as a AAA lifer. That requires dedication.

Ozzie has mishandled him, maybe too much to undo. (I not saying I wouldn't have done the same, but Ozzie gets paid big bucks to handle players. "One size fits all" doesn't work with psychology.)

I wouldn't bet against him becoming a player elsewhere, but I hope it's here. I'm not saying either's a lock.

voodoochile
12-07-2007, 12:52 PM
It's nice to see Brian wake up and smell the coffee, but I wonder how much of this is desperation trying to hold on to prospect status and not become a AAAA lifer or a journeyman outfielder...

It's obvious he tried and failed by coasting on his talent. And now that he's (externally, I may add) supposedly taking things seriously that's no guarantee he'll turn the corner and be able to live up to his potential as a major league hitter.

I have to question why the agent has to air this out in the press? If Brian really has matured and is willing to work hard, there's no need to broadcast it, just quietly work your ass off and prove it to the Sox or another team this spring...

It's undoubtably a PR move both for the Sox brass and for other teams should he eventually end up getting traded or released. It would also up his trade value to say, "Hey, I'm growing up" which has obviously been the biggest knock on him to date. It either makes it more likely he will get a legitimate shot this spring or get traded and thus allow him to prove himself to someone else.

The Sox may have even told him, "Publicly admit you were a punk and are now past it and we'll try to trade you, but right now you're worthless in trade value."

voodoochile
12-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Mitchel report??????

Really, is it necessary to go there? It's rumor mongering at it's worst...

voodoochile
12-07-2007, 01:03 PM
There's another possibility too...

Maybe BA watched as the TorIIII signing fell through and then sized up his current competition (Owens and Sweeney) and decided that he wasn't going down without a fight. I really hope this is the case. I'd love to see his glove and arm in CF 150 games next season, but he has to want it, he has to be willing to work for it and he has to prove both of those things to Ozzie.

He's playing with a strike or two against him, so it's put up and shut up time for BA. There won't be another chance...

Hitmen77
12-07-2007, 01:12 PM
:?:
For the first time, he's working out? Is this representative of the top prospects we are developing in our minor league system? :o:

THIS IS THE GUY WE BANKED CENTERFIELD ON FOR TWO SEASON!? :angry:


Absolutely. But when his own agent says "for the first time" in reference to acting like a professional, I think it points to a significant problem in his past behavior.

What is disappointing is how in-the-dark the Sox seemed to be about BA's work ethic. IIRC, when he was annointed our starting CF before '06, KW said something to the effect that he liked Anderson's mental make-up. Really? Is this the same guy whose agent is now admitting had an attitude problem? He came up through the Sox system and they had no clue about this guy's work ethic until he was made starting CF for the defending world champs?

voodoochile
12-07-2007, 01:15 PM
What is disappointing is how in-the-dark the Sox seemed to be about BA's work ethic. IIRC, when he was annointed our starting CF before '06, KW said something to the effect that he liked Anderson's mental make-up. Really? Is this the same guy whose agent is now admitting had an attitude problem? He came up through the Sox system and they had no clue about this guy's work ethic until he was made starting CF for the defending world champs?

Big difference between living in a minor league setting and living in Chicago as the starting CF for the defending WS champs. It may have manifested after the second half came to be.

AZChiSoxFan
12-07-2007, 01:26 PM
He still sucks.

Wow, I didn't realize that!!

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

JB98
12-07-2007, 01:43 PM
I think some people on this board believe Anderson is younger than he actually is. BA will be 26 in March. He's young, but he's not a "kid" anymore. He is no longer considered a prospect.

He didn't get to this point because Ozzie persecuted him, as so many here believe. He put himself in this situation with his lack of professionalism. Hopefully, he's realized the error of his ways, and now he'll put the necessary work in to become a productive player for the Sox.

wdelaney72
12-07-2007, 01:45 PM
I wonder if shortly before all this happened they had a discussion...

TB: Uh... Brian, do you really WANT to be a highly paid professional baseball player?

BA: Of course I do. Why would anyone thing differently?

TB: Uh...Because you are acting like this is HS and you're the king of the prom.

BA: Can't I be both?

TB: Sure you can, ARod is. Jeter is. Many others are, but first you have to play like a superstar and that takes LOTS of hard work.

BA: Hard work? Oh damn...sigh...urk...okay, I'll do it... You promise there will be babes and booze when I come out the other side a stud?

TB: All you can want and more...

:rolling::rolling:

RowanDye
12-07-2007, 01:47 PM
I'm not terribly sympathetic to the "he's only a kid" argument. I turned 21 in Viet Nam, and I was already a sergeant. I had to grow up pretty quickly.

These guys are being paid more than I'll ever dream of making, many of them making more in a year than I'll make in my whole life. It's not too much to expect them to comport themselves professionally for that kind of money, and the trade off for them is public scrutiny and criticism.

I absolutely would love to see Anderson grow up and become the answer to the center field problem, but I see his failure to do so up to this point to be on his shoulders, not on management.

While I do blame management for the '07 Darin Erstad experiment, I don't blame management for Anderson's problems. Maybe this adversity is what he needed to finally grow up a bit.

My problem with your attitude though is that it nearly precludes young players from coming through difficult times without the proverbial "change of scenery". If management and the fanbase aren't willing to give a guy a break, then it necessitates that a potential comeback occur in a different location with a blank slate.

rdwj
12-07-2007, 01:52 PM
I'll take BA's swing and miss over whatever kind of slap manuever Mabry is attempting.:D:

:rolling: That's the cubbie craw!

Honestly, at 23 I was a dumb-ass, just like MOST of us were at 23. If I had a little pocket change and major league potential, I probably would have been an even BIGGER dumb-ass.

I have faith that BA will be a VERY good to excellent major league talent some day. I just hope it's with the White Sox.

DumpJerry
12-07-2007, 01:55 PM
My first, and still only, reaction is "Good! It will hopefully increase his trade value!"

TomBradley72
12-07-2007, 02:02 PM
I mean... he's a kid, right?

I'm not making excuses for him, but he's a kid that didn't understand the responsibility facing him.


Wrong.

He's a 25 year old man. Four years of major college baseball followed by 4 years in professional baseball.....but he didn't "understand the responsibility facing him"?

Tragg
12-07-2007, 02:46 PM
You've got to love it when your agent says something like this and it gets printed in the newspaper (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071206sox,1,6410165.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)...



He is an outstanding defender. I'll take that over across-the-board mediocre.
I hope he gets a legitimate chance because he, in contrast to the incumbent, has a high ceiling.

thedudeabides
12-07-2007, 04:51 PM
I really think what his agent was saying is "WSI has been completely depressed, I think I will add fuel to the most heated debate ever on that site."

If only he represented Rowand, as well.

spiffie
12-07-2007, 04:53 PM
He is an outstanding defender. I'll take that over across-the-board mediocre.
I hope he gets a legitimate chance because he, in contrast to the incumbent, has a high ceiling.
I am highly disappointed at the lack of "slap-hitter", "free-swinging", or "Ozzie-type player" in this post.

Jerome
12-07-2007, 05:41 PM
I'd still rather take my chances with a lazy slacking Anderson than a 110% hustling grinding Darin Erstad. Maybe all that potential will finally turn up this year and the Sox won't have to rely on a high priced FA or a really crappy veteran for CF.

jabrch
12-07-2007, 05:47 PM
I'd still rather take my chances with a lazy slacking Anderson than a 110% hustling grinding Darin Erstad. Maybe all that potential will finally turn up this year and the Sox won't have to rely on a high priced FA or a really crappy veteran for CF.

I don't want anyone on this team who is classified as lazy or slacking. And comparing that to anyone else doesn't make it acceptable. If BA wants to work hard at his craft, then he may have a future, and it very well may be with this organization. But if he is not going to act like a professional, I'll be happy to not take my chances that he is the 1:1,000,000 like Manny who can be described as both lazy and great.

santo=dorf
12-07-2007, 06:14 PM
I don't want anyone on this team who is classified as lazy or slacking. And comparing that to anyone else doesn't make it acceptable. If BA wants to work hard at his craft, then he may have a future, and it very well may be with this organization. But if he is not going to act like a professional, I'll be happy to not take my chances that he is the 1:1,000,000 like Manny who can be described as both lazy and great.
So you wouldn't want Manny Ramirez in LF, or Aramis Ramirez at third? How about Miguel Cabrera?

I can see why you're not an MLB GM.

IceczMan
12-07-2007, 08:28 PM
While Manny and Aramis are great athletes, I for one would not want either one of them anywhere near the white sox. I can not imagine any scenario where I would be able to cheer for either one of them. That may not make me a good general manager, but as a fan who has to pay to go see these athletes I wouldnt be able to stand it.

Brian26
12-07-2007, 08:52 PM
While Manny and Aramis are great athletes, I for one would not want either one of them anywhere near the white sox. I can not imagine any scenario where I would be able to cheer for either one of them. That may not make me a good general manager, but as a fan who has to pay to go see these athletes I wouldnt be able to stand it.

I could find a way to root for Manny if it meant the Sox were going to win a title.

FarWestChicago
12-07-2007, 08:59 PM
I'm not terribly sympathetic to the "he's only a kid" argument. I turned 21 in Viet Nam, and I was already a sergeant. I had to grow up pretty quickly. Well Nellie, what can you say about kids today? We see some good ones around here. But, the vast majority are totally spoiled and couldn't spell the words sacrifice or effort with a dictionary in their hands (and I'm not referring to the literacy issue). I blame my generation. Hippies raised rotten kids because they taught them no values. Rotten kids had worse kids. A good kid today is a miracle and kudos to them.

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 09:01 PM
I can see why you're not an MLB GM.

Nice snipe.

Why didn't you throw Babe Ruth in too, while you were at it?

:rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
12-07-2007, 09:03 PM
So you wouldn't want Manny Ramirez in LF, or Aramis Ramirez at third? How about Miguel Cabrera?

I can see why you're not an MLB GM.Dorf, read his post again. This time pretend you understand English. You got it totally backwards. Wow. :o:

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 09:09 PM
Dorf, read his post again. This time pretend you understand English. You got it totally backwards. Wow. :o:

Maybe that is why he's not an English Professor. :dunno:

Viva Medias B's
12-07-2007, 09:18 PM
Maybe the news about Arizona basketball coach Lute Olson has forced BA, who attended UA, to reasses his life.

santo=dorf
12-07-2007, 11:55 PM
Nice snipe.

Why didn't you throw Babe Ruth in too, while you were at it?

:rolleyes:
He's always making sniping comments when some critiques the team. He favorite line is something about how the original poster should get a job as a GM or how they should put out a newsletter.

His post said: "I don't want anyone on this team who is classified as lazy or slacking"

Both Ramirez's and Miguel Cabrera have a reputation of being lazy. I'd love to have any or all of them on this team.

rowand33
12-08-2007, 12:43 AM
Well Nellie, what can you say about kids today? We see some good ones around here. But, the vast majority are totally spoiled and couldn't spell the words sacrifice or effort with a dictionary in their hands (and I'm not referring to the literacy issue). I blame my generation. Hippies raised rotten kids because they taught them no values. Rotten kids had worse kids. A good kid today is a miracle and kudos to them.

Yeah, those damn kids are rotten. Rotten I tells ya.

:rolleyes:

drewcifer
12-08-2007, 12:53 AM
He's always making sniping comments when some critiques the team. He favorite line is something about how the original poster should get a job as a GM or how they should put out a newsletter.
I don't get that impression, I like his posts and I like yours too, when you're not picking off a sentence.

You're both knowledable. Why the cockfight?


His post said: "I don't want anyone on this team who is classified as lazy or slacking"

Both Ramirez's and Miguel Cabrera have a reputation of being lazy. I'd love to have any or all of them on this team.

Well, so...me too. But maybe this time he's right. Look at the OF being what it is (Dye, Owens, Quentin/Fields), and a **** year with production, how can you disagree?????

Talk some ideas instead of pissing and *****ing.

It's supposed to be fun, dopes.

TheOldRoman
12-08-2007, 01:39 AM
I blame my generation. Hippies raised rotten kids because they taught them no values. Rotten kids had worse kids. A good kid today is a miracle and kudos to them.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thum bsup:

ChiSoxFan35
12-08-2007, 02:54 AM
I doubt he didn't work out in the past. I think the bigger problems was the late night thing, and the agent making a statement like that tries to convince a team to give him another chance, it's a big statement so maybe a team could consider it more, esp with his talent

I really like Anderson. I would like to sign Rowand. He can man CF for now, and if Anderson can show a little offense, he could take over and Rowand can take a corner OF spot. I don't have a ton of confidence in Quentin. That's great if he has potential, but he sounds injury prone.

FarWestChicago
12-08-2007, 05:16 AM
Yeah, those damn kids are rotten. Rotten I tells ya.

Well, your values were certainly on display in the Bonds thread. :rolling:

Grzegorz
12-08-2007, 06:13 AM
I could find a way to root for Manny if it meant the Sox were going to win a title.

You're building in conditions for which you'd accept Manny on the roster; that not fair.

Manny seems to be a 'party of one'; please keep him far away from the Chicago White Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2007, 06:31 AM
It's hard for me to blame an athlete in isolation if he is immature. I try to look at the big picture. This doesn't excuse bad behavior. But it does help explain it. And I've noticed the problem specifically with male athletes playing the "big three" sports: football, baseball and basketball.

Our society is both "sports mad" and a "juvenocracy." (And I say this as a WSI addict and a soon-to-be-father.) We spend countless public dollars on high school sports, for example. In fact, here in Plano, Texas (population 250,000), the public school district is configured specifically to have just three senior high schools (grades 11-12) so that the three varsity football teams have a massive talent pool from which to draw.

There's an enormous double standard for kids who are star athletes. Parents and then administrators look the other way when athletes misbehave. If the kid is a star player, he can get away with more stuff. They are showered with trophies and plaques and ribbons and certificates.

Those players who then go onto college sports are all the high school stars. So that means that virtually every college sports player was a star at his high school. Those that become stars in college therefore necessarily are the stars of the stars, then, and are venerated to an even higher degree and get away with even more. And only some of them actually turn professional.

So think about Brian Anderson. He's entirely responsible for his own conduct. But he's also a product of his upbringing. He almost certainly was the best player on his high school team and probably got everything to go his way because of his talent. Same thing in college. He never had to work; being a star performer came completely naturally. Plus, he probably never faced any consequences if he did misbehave. He's finally at the level where talent alone will not allow him to succeed. Kudos to him if he figures it out; sadly, too many athletes simply don't get it, ever.

He's still on the Sox, so I'm rooting for him all the way.

FarWestChicago
12-08-2007, 06:55 AM
He's still on the Sox, so I'm rooting for him all the way.I hope he gets his head out of his ass and realizes his potential. Can you imagine what a steal he would be in this market? :cool:

However, it sure is embarrassing for the BA apologists with their Ozzie/Kenny grassy knoll conspiracy theories. :D:

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 07:25 AM
So you wouldn't want Manny Ramirez in LF,

Manny almost certainly works harder on his hitting (taking cuts in the cage before and after games, studying film, etc) than anyone on the White Sox

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 07:27 AM
Well Nellie, what can you say about kids today? We see some good ones around here. But, the vast majority are totally spoiled and couldn't spell the words sacrifice or effort with a dictionary in their hands (and I'm not referring to the literacy issue). I blame my generation. Hippies raised rotten kids because they taught them no values. Rotten kids had worse kids. A good kid today is a miracle and kudos to them.

That's an overgeneralization if I ever saw one.

Vast majority?

It's true "kids these days" are very often spoiled and lazy, but in my experience being a "kid these days" working with and teaching other "kids these days" the majority of them are willing to put in their share of hard work and sacrifice

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2007, 08:24 AM
I hope he gets his head out of his ass and realizes his potential. Can you imagine what a steal he would be in this market? :cool:

However, it sure is embarrassing for the BA apologists with their Ozzie/Kenny grassy knoll conspiracy theories. :D:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but as a warmed-over Hegelian I do think that BA's own immaturity and Ozzie's impatience are not mutually exclusive. IMHO the following all are true:

BA was (and perhaps could remain?) immature;

BA had never developed much of a work ethic because he never had to;

Patience is not one of Ozzie's character traits. (He never showed patience at the plate as a hitter.) This means that developing young players necessarily is not one of his strengths.

Yes, BA would be an absolute steal if he realized his potential. Since Cabrera and AJ are above-average hitters at the other two most important defensive positions, I would be satisfied if BA continued playing excellent defense and hit .250 with 30 doubles, 20 homers and 20 steals out of the #9 hole (with Richar batting 8). Obviously I'd like more experienced productive players, but I would be satisfied IF this lineup produced these numbers:

Owens .340 OBP, 20 doubles, 50 steals
Cabrera .290 BA, .340 OBP, 30 doubles, 10 homers, 20 steals
Thome .270 BA, .400 OBP, 20 doubles, 35 homers
Paulie .280 BA, 35 doubles, 35 homers
Dye .275 BA, 35 doubles, 30 homers
AJ .275 BA, 25 doubles, 15 homers
Fields .260 BA, 30 doubles, 35 homers, 20 steals
Richar .250 BA, .320 OBP, 20 doubles, 6 triples, 12 homers, 20 steals
Anderson, .250 BA, .320 OBP, 30 doubles, 20 homers, 20 steals

FarWestChicago
12-08-2007, 08:43 AM
That's an overgeneralization if I ever saw one.

Vast majority?

It's true "kids these days" are very often spoiled and lazy, but in my experience being a "kid these days" working with and teaching other "kids these days" the majority of them are willing to put in their share of hard work and sacrificeHey, I allowed for good kids. I have dozens of them that work for me. There are some that make you believe there is a future for humans. And I did put the blame for the current state of affairs squarely on my generation. :D:

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 09:50 AM
Hey, I allowed for good kids. I have dozens of them that work for me. There are some that make you believe there is a future for humans. And I did put the blame for the current state of affairs squarely on my generation. :D:

I also think you're letting "the greatest generation" off the hook a little easily

If the boomers are responsible for the way they raised their kids, then who's responsible for the boomers? :)

jabrch
12-08-2007, 10:16 AM
Owens .340 OBP, 20 doubles, 50 steals
Cabrera .290 BA, .340 OBP, 30 doubles, 10 homers, 20 steals
Thome .270 BA, .400 OBP, 20 doubles, 35 homers
Paulie .280 BA, 35 doubles, 35 homers
Dye .275 BA, 35 doubles, 30 homers
AJ .275 BA, 25 doubles, 25 homers
Fields .260 BA, 30 doubles, 35 homers, 20 steals
Richar .250 BA, .320 OBP, 20 doubles, 6 triples, 12 homers, 20 steals
Anderson, .250 BA, .320 OBP, 30 doubles, 20 homers, 20 steals

I don't think there is anything there that is not within a reasonable realm of possibility.

voodoochile
12-08-2007, 10:40 AM
I don't think there is anything there that is not within a reasonable realm of possibility.

Well AJ's numbers are pretty extreme and Counting on everyone having an above average year seems a bit over the top optimistic. Add in the fact that both Anderson and Owens are playing and it bets the question, where's Quentin?

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2007, 10:49 AM
Well AJ's numbers are pretty extreme and Counting on everyone having an above average year seems a bit over the top optimistic. Add in the fact that both Anderson and Owens are playing and it bets the question, where's Quentin?

Those hypothetical numbers represent recent averages for those players, with the exception of Owens and Anderson. For those two guys, I said that I would be satisfied if they produced those numbers.

If you still think the numbers are unrealistic, put Pierre in for Owens and in CF (downgraded CF defense but the stats are virtually a lock based on his career), and Quentin in for Anderson and in LF (those numbers are quite likely).

voodoochile
12-08-2007, 10:57 AM
Those hypothetical numbers represent recent averages for those players, with the exception of Owens and Anderson. For those two guys, I said that I would be satisfied if they produced those numbers.

If you still think the numbers are unrealistic, put Pierre in for Owens and in CF (downgraded CF defense but the stats are virtually a lock based on his career), and Quentin in for Anderson and in LF (those numbers are quite likely).

I just don't see AJ hitting for both power and average. He seems to be a one or the other kind of guy...

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 10:59 AM
Those numbers are possible. Perhaps not likely, but possible. However that would give us a pretty run-of-the-mill lineup--and lineup is by far the smalles of the 3 problems we're looking at right now--problematic pitching, problematic defense, and a problematic lineup.

I'd rank the problems in this order:

1.pitching
2.defense
3.batting

duke of dorwood
12-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Maybe "the light went on" but its all for naught if the manager doesnt let go his animosity for him. Guillen gets down on players and stays down. Guillen must be blamed for some failures of players that dont develop. Guillen is great at avoiding this flaw. He needs to get over stuff and manage the team day to day.

voodoochile
12-08-2007, 11:17 AM
Maybe "the light went on" but its all for naught if the manager doesnt let go his animosity for him. Guillen gets down on players and stays down. Guillen must be blamed for some failures of players that dont develop. Guillen is great at avoiding this flaw. He needs to get over stuff and manage the team day to day.

Do you have a link to support this claim or is it just a feeling you have supported by message board blather?

itsnotrequired
12-08-2007, 11:25 AM
Do you have a link to support this claim or is it just a feeling you have supported by message board blather?

Don't forget his favoritism of the Latin Man.

:happybday

soxinem1
12-08-2007, 11:46 AM
IF this lineup produced these numbers:

Owens .340 OBP, 20 doubles, 50 steals
Cabrera .290 BA, .340 OBP, 30 doubles, 10 homers, 20 steals
Thome .270 BA, .400 OBP, 20 doubles, 35 homers
Paulie .280 BA, 35 doubles, 35 homers
Dye .275 BA, 35 doubles, 30 homers
AJ .275 BA, 25 doubles, 25 homers
Fields .260 BA, 30 doubles, 35 homers, 20 steals
Richar .250 BA, .320 OBP, 20 doubles, 6 triples, 12 homers, 20 steals
Anderson, .250 BA, .320 OBP, 30 doubles, 20 homers, 20 steals

This is not an unrealistic projection, and it would really be nice, but I doubt AJ ever hits 25 HR's, and I sure hope Richar has better than a .250 average.

What you present here is a team with over 200 HR's and 130 SB's just from it's starting line up. In the realm of baseball probability, Guillen's managerial style, injuries, off-years or declining performance, I cannot see this happening with Owens at the lead-off spot, not right now anyway. Plus, this would mean that an awful lot of players are going for the fences, which means fewer SB attempts.

I would have no problems with this line up, or these projections, if a better lead-off option emerged.

The lead-off man needs to set the tempo so that the others behind him can fall in line. Unless Owens develops some skills to drive the opposing pitchers totally ape****, he will not be the answer.

whitesoxstud
12-08-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm glad that he's acting like a professional now, welcome to the MLB, now show me you know how to hit a baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2007, 02:57 PM
I just don't see AJ hitting for both power and average. He seems to be a one or the other kind of guy...

You're right. I overestimated AJ's homer totals. I'm revising it downward to 15 homers. I think the average is realistic, though.

jabrch
12-08-2007, 03:27 PM
its all for naught if the manager doesnt let go his animosity for him.


There is no such animosity...this is made up.

If Brian follows instructions and plays well, he will get time. It really is that simple.

Tragg
12-08-2007, 03:33 PM
There is no such animosity...this is made up.

If Brian follows instructions and plays well, he will get time. It really is that simple.
He had an excellent spring last year and found himself with little time.
The prior year, the outfield defense was torn apart, despite mid-season imrovement, so that he wouldnt' play every day.

fquaye149
12-08-2007, 04:09 PM
There is no such animosity...this is made up.

If Brian follows instructions and plays well, he will get time. It really is that simple.

I'm glad you have such an inside track.

I think most rational observers would have to admit, warranted or not, Ozzie didn't seem happy to be playing Anderson in 06.

I know Daver, among many other intelligent posters, feel Anderson wasn't really put in the best position to succeed in 06. Clearly, he didn't make the best of his opportunities, nor did he likely EARN any extra favor from his coaches, but to act like Ozzie really really wanted Anderson to succeed and is as sad as anyone the kid didn't is pretty naive.

MarySwiss
12-08-2007, 05:20 PM
That's an overgeneralization if I ever saw one.

Vast majority?

It's true "kids these days" are very often spoiled and lazy, but in my experience being a "kid these days" working with and teaching other "kids these days" the majority of them are willing to put in their share of hard work and sacrifice

I agree.

I work with several 20-somethings who admit freely that they have trouble accepting criticism because they grew up without any. They played sports on teams where no one "lost" and they were always told how wonderful they were, no matter how badly they messed up.

I don't have a link, but there was a recent article that reported that some Millennials (sp?) have their parents come down to check out their first workplace. This article also reported that there were instances of a parent calling a boss to complain about a poor performance review their kid got. :o:

But the ones I work with work hard. Maybe it's because they can't stand criticism, so they do what it takes to avoid it?

Anyway, back on topic. I would love to see BA turn into the terrific CF I think he could be. But waiting around for someone to reach their potential can get old in a hurry. I think Joe Borchard is a good example.

jabrch
12-08-2007, 08:49 PM
to act like Ozzie really really wanted Anderson to succeed and is as sad as anyone the kid didn't is pretty naive.

Well - that's your opinion. In my opinion, to think that the Manager of this club does not want one of the organization's top prospects to succeed is...well...I don't have a word on the tip of my tongue...but suffice it to say I find that preposterous.

Management clearly believes Brian wasn't doing what was expected of him. Frankly, as an employee of this club, that's his job. And it doesn't matter what else happens - Brian needed to, and still needs to convince Ozzie and Kenny that he deserves ABs. Once he does, he will get them...

RowanDye
12-08-2007, 08:58 PM
Well - that's your opinion. In my opinion, to think that the Manager of this club does not want one of the organization's top prospects to succeed is...well...I don't have a word on the tip of my tongue...but suffice it to say I find that preposterous.

Management clearly believes Brian wasn't doing what was expected of him. Frankly, as an employee of this club, that's his job. And it doesn't matter what else happens - Brian needed to, and still needs to convince Ozzie and Kenny that he deserves ABs. Once he does, he will get them...

Do you mean like hitting .308 with a .855 slugging percentage in spring training last year?

Brian Anderson is NOT a martyr, but it goes both ways. He wasn't given an opportunity last year to convince Ozzie of anything.

By the time the Darin Erstad experiment was officially over BA was hurt, so obviously no one is to blame for that part.

rowand33
12-08-2007, 11:12 PM
Do you mean like hitting .308 with a .855 slugging percentage in spring training last year?

Brian Anderson is NOT a martyr, but it goes both ways. He wasn't given an opportunity last year to convince Ozzie of anything.

By the time the Darin Erstad experiment was officially over BA was hurt, so obviously no one is to blame for that part.

agreed. BA made his own bed, but under no circumstances should he have hit .308 in spring training only to lose his job to Darin ****ing Erstad.

JermaineDye05
12-09-2007, 12:27 AM
agreed. BA made his own bed, but under no circumstances should he have hit .308 in spring training only to lose his job to Darin ****ing Erstad.

Erstad hit .300 in ST, and he was a left handed bat so I think that gave him an edge. Plus he could bat lead off in a pinch which BA could not, and considering Pods was injured a lot I'm sure Ozzie took that into consideration as well.

JorgeFabregas
12-09-2007, 12:53 AM
Erstad hit .300 in ST, and he was a left handed bat so I think that gave him an edge. Plus he could bat lead off in a pinch which BA could not, and considering Pods was injured a lot I'm sure Ozzie took that into consideration as well.
Err, small sample size and all, but Anderson had a higher OBP and SLG. And, you know, the whole better defender thing. Anyway, this is silly. It's the same argument over and over again. Hopefully Brian does better. That's about all there is to it.

Tragg
12-09-2007, 09:04 AM
Plus he could bat lead off in a pinch which BA could not, and considering Pods was injured a lot I'm sure Ozzie took that into consideration as well. That would be an argument to keep him on the roster, but he doesn't need to start in order to play backup lead-off hitter. Anderson was on the roster for a while, benchwarming mostly.
Not only did Ozzie bounce Anderson out of the lineup for Erstad, he also bounced Iguchi down from the 2 hole to the 8 hole, to put his hacker in the 2 hole.
For all of Williams' and the organization's talk about plate discipline and OBP, he doesn't seem to be on the same page with the manager he just extended.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 09:56 AM
Do you mean like hitting .308 with a .855 slugging percentage in spring training last year?

I mean by doing what management told him to do - whatever that is. Spring training statistics, good and bad, mean nothing. There is a lot more that went on other than a handful of worthless ST ABs.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 09:58 AM
Err, small sample size and all, but Anderson had a higher OBP and SLG.

I can't believe you are using ST OBP and SLG% as proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision.

There's a lot more that goes into those decisions than the outcomes of a handful of ABs.

TornLabrum
12-09-2007, 10:30 AM
I can't believe you are using ST OBP and SLG% as proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision.

There's a lot more that goes into those decisions than the outcomes of a handful of ABs.

Yeah, but that doesn't phase our corps of amateur GMs.

Brian26
12-09-2007, 10:57 AM
I'm glad Anderson is taking things more seriously, but I could not care less about the weight training and his nutritionist. I just want him to take as many swings as possible off live pitching before Spring Training.

RowanDye
12-09-2007, 11:38 AM
I can't believe you are using ST OBP and SLG% as proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision.

There's a lot more that goes into those decisions than the outcomes of a handful of ABs.

I never said that the spring training #'s were "proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision", that's ridiculous.

The only reason I defend Anderson is because I think he can still make a great contribution to the team.

I realize that breaking into the bigs is hard and Anderson already had a shot, but you're still applying the Catch 22 that he somehow needs to show he can hit during the regular season before he can get ABs.

santo=dorf
12-09-2007, 12:38 PM
I can't believe you are using ST OBP and SLG% as proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision.

There's a lot more that goes into those decisions than the outcomes of a handful of ABs.
How many flyballs did Anderson lose in the sun that resulted in a big inning? I know Erstad had one of those, and it rubbed off in to the season.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2007/05/05/G6GxPt87.jpg
Darin Erstad looks for help after losing a Mike Napoli fly ball in the second inning. (Mark J. Terrill/AP)

JorgeFabregas
12-09-2007, 01:46 PM
I can't believe you are using ST OBP and SLG% as proof that our GM and Manager made a bad decision.

There's a lot more that goes into those decisions than the outcomes of a handful of ABs.
Remember, I was responding to a post comparing the ST batting averages of Anderson and Erstad. I see no reason why AVG should come into play, but not OBP and SLG. I mean, it's hardly conclusive and I'm not saying that Ozzie necessarily made the wrong decision, but Anderson had a better ST at the dish than Erstad did statistically speaking.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 01:51 PM
Remember, I was responding to a post comparing the ST batting averages of Anderson and Erstad. I see no reason why AVG should come into play, but not OBP and SLG. I mean, it's hardly conclusive and I'm not saying that Ozzie necessarily made the wrong decision, but Anderson had a better ST at the dish than Erstad did statistically speaking.


ok...then I agree that his ST was statistically better - but I'd stress that it is very much insignificant.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 01:53 PM
but you're still applying the Catch 22 that he somehow needs to show he can hit during the regular season before he can get ABs.

Nope - I am just saying that if the manager doesn't think he is working hard and doing the right things, he won't get the ABs. Managment here has proven you don't have to put up huge numbers to get ABs. But they won't tolerate being ignored. That's BAs largest problem that stopped him from getting more ABs - he failed to listen to OG and KW and do the things they told him to do.

Tragg
12-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Managment here has proven you don't have to put up huge numbers to get ABs.
That's for darn sure

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Well - that's your opinion. In my opinion, to think that the Manager of this club does not want one of the organization's top prospects to succeed is...well...I don't have a word on the tip of my tongue...but suffice it to say I find that preposterous.

It's not that he didn't want him to succeed. It could be any number of things

a.) he didn't like the kid's attitude.
b.) he resented Kenny sticking him with a light hitting rookie in a season where he expected to win
c.) some totally unconfirmable incident in a bar
d.) any other of number of reasons.

Management clearly believes Brian wasn't doing what was expected of him. Frankly, as an employee of this club, that's his job. And it doesn't matter what else happens - Brian needed to, and still needs to convince Ozzie and Kenny that he deserves ABs. Once he does, he will get them...


Is that clear? That management felt that way? If management so clearly felt that way, then why didn't Kenny make a move for a CF in the offseason, if management so clearly felt that way:rolleyes:

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Yeah, but that doesn't phase our corps of amateur GMs.

Or the paid GM of our team (you know, Kenny Williams...) who put Anderson in position to be the starting CF this year....

What a maroon HE is!...armchair GM etraordinaire: GM Kenny Williams!

canOcorn
12-09-2007, 02:18 PM
Nope - I am just saying that if the manager doesn't think he is working hard and doing the right things, he won't get the ABs. Managment here has proven you don't have to put up huge numbers to get ABs. But they won't tolerate being ignored. That's BAs largest problem that stopped him from getting more ABs - he failed to listen to OG and KW and do the things they told him to do.

Why did Uribe continue to get AB's last season?

jabrch
12-09-2007, 02:21 PM
It could be any number of things

a.) he didn't like the kid's attitude.
b.) he resented Kenny sticking him with a light hitting rookie in a season where he expected to win
c.) some totally unconfirmable incident in a bar
d.) any other of number of reasons.



Then he needs to have a better attitude, behave better, or not cause whatever problem it was that he caused. Bottom line - he didn't earn playing time in the eyes of the only person who matters. And as a rookie, that is an obligation that you have.


Is that clear? That management felt that way? If management so clearly felt that way, then why didn't Kenny make a move for a CF in the offseason, if management so clearly felt that way:rolleyes:

To me, Kenny not making a move indicated that they were comfortable with BA, assuming he did what he was told to do. They planned on him being the guy. But he failed to live up to those expectations somewhere along the lines. At that point, it was too late to get a different CF - and they had Erstad anyhow so they didn't feel like they needed to get someone different. (that didn't work out - but it is at least plausible logic in my eyes)

jabrch
12-09-2007, 02:22 PM
Why did Uribe continue to get AB's last season?

1) Who else did we have who could play SS?

2) He has at least proven that he can have success at this level

Daver
12-09-2007, 02:24 PM
1) Who else did we have who could play SS?

Angel Gonzalez is a SS, though he played just about every position but that for the Sox last season. Better find a better argument.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 02:25 PM
Or the paid GM of our team (you know, Kenny Williams...) who put Anderson in position to be the starting CF this year....

What a maroon HE is!...armchair GM etraordinaire: GM Kenny Williams!

What does that have to do with the point that Hal and I were making about people justifying their opinions that they are using to indict KW with small samples of spring training ABs when they don't see all the things that OG and KW see during an offseason?

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Then he needs to have a better attitude, behave better, or not cause whatever problem it was that he caused. Bottom line - he didn't earn playing time in the eyes of the only person who matters. And as a rookie, that is an obligation that you have.

So you say (and I'd tend to agree with you), but don't act like Ozzie was just waiting with bated breath for his prodigal son to return. Whether BA had a bad attitude is not what's at issue here, so don't twist the subject. You said that anyone who thinks Ozzie had anything but patience for BA and treated him anything but fairly is crazy. Sorry. That dog won't hunt, monsignior.


To me, Kenny not making a move indicated that they were comfortable with BA, assuming he did what he was told to do.

Ok...so they were comfortable with him up till spring training...when...he hit quite well...and then they realized...he wasn't going to do what he was told...because he hit well...

hmm.


They planned on him being the guy. But he failed to live up to those expectations somewhere along the lines. At that point, it was too late to get a different CF - and they had Erstad anyhow so they didn't feel like they needed to get someone different. (that didn't work out - but it is at least plausible logic in my eyes)

I could buy this if you said this about the 2006 season, but if Kenny really thought BA was the problem, then he would have had a contingency plan that didn't involve "ol' brittle bones left fielder darin erstad"

voodoochile
12-09-2007, 02:28 PM
What does that have to do with the point that Hal and I were making about people justifying their opinions that they are using to indict KW with small samples of spring training ABs when they don't see all the things that OG and KW see during an offseason?

Or in the clubhouse or in the approach taken toward preparation or lots of other intangible stuff that they get paid to evaluate...

jabrch
12-09-2007, 02:28 PM
Angel Gonzalez is a SS, though he played just about every position but that for the Sox last season. Better find a better argument.

A better arguement? I don't think I need one? Gonzalez was hitting .240 in AAA. He's not playing SS much anymore (hasn't regularly since 2005) And he hasn't been particularly impressive with the bat at any point in his minor league career. Uribe was awful - but there is no reason to put Angel Gonzalez out there every day.

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 02:28 PM
What does that have to do with the point that Hal and I were making about people justifying their opinions that they are using to indict KW with small samples of spring training ABs when they don't see all the things that OG and KW see during an offseason?

Everything. It's not my fault you refuse to see it in your haste to overgeneralize about those who think that BA wasn't treated in the smartest way possible for a prospect to develop

Daver
12-09-2007, 02:30 PM
A better arguement? I don't think I need one? Gonzalez was hitting .240 in AAA. He's not playing SS much anymore (hasn't regularly since 2005) And he hasn't been particularly impressive with the bat at any point in his minor league career. Uribe was awful - but there is no reason to put Angel Gonzalez out there every day.

They replaced Anderson from his position because he wasn't performing at the plate, what makes Uribe different?

jabrch
12-09-2007, 02:50 PM
don't act like Ozzie was just waiting with bated breath for his prodigal son to return.

I never said that

You said that anyone who thinks Ozzie had anything but patience for BA and treated him anything but fairly is crazy. Sorry.

or that


Ok...so they were comfortable with him up till spring training...when...he hit quite well...and then they realized...he wasn't going to do what he was told...because he hit well...

or that



STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH



a contingency plan that didn't involve "ol' brittle bones left fielder darin erstad"

The fact that you didn't like his plan doesn't mean it didn't exist.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 03:37 PM
They replaced Anderson from his position because he wasn't performing at the plate, what makes Uribe different?

Because we had a viable option to play OF - and no legitimate one to play SS.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2007, 03:38 PM
Because we had a viable option to play OF - and no legitimate one to play SS.

Yeah, having that viable option in the lineup was like having a ".400 hitter" in the lineup, according to the manager. :rolleyes:

Daver
12-09-2007, 03:41 PM
Because we had a viable option to play OF - and no legitimate one to play SS.

Bull****.

Cintron plays SS, Gonzalez can play SS, Uribe was left in because Ozzie was hoping he'd turn it around, something he wasn't willing to do for Brian, because Juan is a veteran player and Brian is not.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 10:00 PM
Bull****.

Cintron plays SS, Gonzalez can play SS

We have very different opinions then on the potential viability of those two when compared to the potential viability of Erstad.

I respect your opinion Daver - but you won't ever convince me that either Cintron or Gonzalez should be playing MLB SS every day. Going into last season there were some (I know I was one of them) who at least felt Erstad could put up decent numbers. I was wrong - but I can't think of anyone before you who suggested (assuming that's what you were doing - and I apologize if I misread your post) that either Cintron or Gonzalez should have been playing every day for us at any point last year.

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 10:17 PM
I never said that



or that




or that



STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH

You can say that, but that doesn't mean you didn't say that:

There is no such animosity...this is made up.

well lookie lookie

As to the other part of your post: If you think Kenny signed Erstad to be a contingency play for CF, you must be crazy.

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 10:19 PM
We have very different opinions then on the potential viability of those two when compared to the potential viability of Erstad.

I respect your opinion Daver - but you won't ever convince me that either Cintron or Gonzalez should be playing MLB SS every day. Going into last season there were some (I know I was one of them) who at least felt Erstad could put up decent numbers. I was wrong - but I can't think of anyone before you who suggested (assuming that's what you were doing - and I apologize if I misread your post) that either Cintron or Gonzalez should have been playing every day for us at any point last year.

Erstad played very bad defensive OF last year. Mackowiack played the worst CF i've ever seen in 2006.

If you think Cintron could possibly play SS worse than Erstad or Mackowiack, I think you need to watch a little more baseball

jabrch
12-09-2007, 11:02 PM
I think you need to watch a little more baseball

Tell that to my wife or my boss.

Have a nice day.

JB98
12-09-2007, 11:33 PM
Erstad played very bad defensive OF last year. Mackowiack played the worst CF i've ever seen in 2006.

If you think Cintron could possibly play SS worse than Erstad or Mackowiack, I think you need to watch a little more baseball

I disagree about Erstad's defense last year. I think he was decent, but not great. Pods played a very bad defensive OF last year.

Cintron was brutal defensively last year, both at SS and at 3B.

Frater Perdurabo
12-10-2007, 06:11 AM
We have very different opinions then on the potential viability of those two when compared to the potential viability of Erstad.

I respect your opinion Daver - but you won't ever convince me that either Cintron or Gonzalez should be playing MLB SS every day. Going into last season there were some (I know I was one of them) who at least felt Erstad could put up decent numbers. I was wrong - but I can't think of anyone before you who suggested (assuming that's what you were doing - and I apologize if I misread your post) that either Cintron or Gonzalez should have been playing every day for us at any point last year.

The point is that Ozzie kept penciling those weak-hitting hackers into the lineup, just he kept putting Erstad and his .400 average into the lineup, too.

A lot of Sox players sucked last year. The only one who didn't get to play, though, was BA.

SBSoxFan
12-10-2007, 09:22 AM
The point is that Ozzie kept penciling those weak-hitting hackers into the lineup, just he kept putting Erstad and his .400 average into the lineup, too.

A lot of Sox players sucked last year. The only one who didn't get to play, though, was BA.

BA was sent to the minors last year on APR 29 after playing in 13 games and having 17 AB's. The Sox were 12-11, 2.5 games back at the time. Then he got hurt in AAA; supposedly his wrist might still not be sufficiently healed to allow him to play Winter ball. So, I'm not convinced that BA could have played even after everyone got hurt/started sucking.

jabrch
12-10-2007, 09:47 AM
The point is that Ozzie kept penciling those weak-hitting hackers into the lineup, just he kept putting Erstad and his .400 average into the lineup, too.

A lot of Sox players sucked last year. The only one who didn't get to play, though, was BA.

well - if he wasn't "acting like a professional", and we had options at the position then that explains why he didn't get a chance. But veterans who hae proven success in the past will always get more room than a rookie who is acting like a frat-boy on Rush Street with a fake ID when he comes home from his freshman year.


I still don't know what this "hackers" thing is code for. I'd much rather have guys who come into the box swinging than guys who don't. Being a "hacker" is not bad. Being a bad baseball player is bad. Vlad Guerrero is a classic example of this. Hacking - if that means swinging aggressively - is a key part to hitting. Some of the same people who talk of hackers also talk of guys like Pods or Owens as slappers. It feels to me like this is all just code to criticize failure, and not a particular type of work.

Tragg
12-10-2007, 10:34 AM
I still don't know what this "hackers" thing is code for. I'd much rather have guys who come into the box swinging than guys who don't. Being a "hacker" is not bad. Being a bad baseball player is bad. Vlad Guerrero is a classic example of this. Hacking - if that means swinging aggressively - is a key part to hitting. Some of the same people who talk of hackers also talk of guys like Pods or Owens as slappers. It feels to me like this is all just code to criticize failure, and not a particular type of work.I use the term a lot so this is how I use it.
A hacker is a bad free swinger - primarily it is poor at getting on base, and secondarily lack of power.
Vlad is a free swinger. But he's not a hacker.
Erstad is a hacker.
A slapper is someone with no power. I'd prefer that slappers not swing at everything, because for them, in 90% of the cases, a walk is as good as a grounder through the left side. For someone with power it's different; however, some discipline would transform Vlad into a Frank Thomas;

Frater Perdurabo
12-10-2007, 06:04 PM
veterans who have proven success in the past

Oh, like Cintron and Gonzalez?

jabrch
12-10-2007, 07:30 PM
Oh, like Cintron and Gonzalez?

I thought we were talking about Uribe starting. What do those guys platooning when we were out of it and BA was rehabbing ineffectively in AAA have to do with it?

Daver
12-10-2007, 07:32 PM
well - if he wasn't "acting like a professional", and we had options at the position then that explains why he didn't get a chance. But veterans who hae proven success in the past will always get more room than a rookie who is acting like a frat-boy on Rush Street with a fake ID when he comes home from his freshman year.


I still don't know what this "hackers" thing is code for. I'd much rather have guys who come into the box swinging than guys who don't. Being a "hacker" is not bad. Being a bad baseball player is bad. Vlad Guerrero is a classic example of this. Hacking - if that means swinging aggressively - is a key part to hitting. Some of the same people who talk of hackers also talk of guys like Pods or Owens as slappers. It feels to me like this is all just code to criticize failure, and not a particular type of work.

If you have no proof of his professionalism, or lack thereof, you have no reason to discuss it.

Daver
12-10-2007, 07:36 PM
We have very different opinions then on the potential viability of those two when compared to the potential viability of Erstad.

I respect your opinion Daver - but you won't ever convince me that either Cintron or Gonzalez should be playing MLB SS every day. Going into last season there were some (I know I was one of them) who at least felt Erstad could put up decent numbers. I was wrong - but I can't think of anyone before you who suggested (assuming that's what you were doing - and I apologize if I misread your post) that either Cintron or Gonzalez should have been playing every day for us at any point last year.

I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of your argument on why Brian was benched, other than the fact that the manager chose not to play him for his own reasons.

Brian26
12-10-2007, 07:39 PM
Tell that to my wife or my boss.

Have a nice day.

:rolling: Awesome.

jabrch
12-10-2007, 07:55 PM
If you have no proof of his professionalism, or lack thereof, you have no reason to discuss it.


His own Agent says something to that effect Daver - if that's not enough to make it valid discussion, then you need to revisit clarifying a standard of what makes something discussion that is reasonable.

I'm sorry - but I don't get it.

fquaye149
12-10-2007, 08:21 PM
His own Agent says something to that effect Daver - if that's not enough to make it valid discussion, then you need to revisit clarifying a standard of what makes something discussion that is reasonable.

I'm sorry - but I don't get it.

His agent's definition of "professionalism" seems to have to do with working out and seeing a nutritionalist.

Your definition of "professionalism" seems to have more to do with watching game film and staying out of nightclubs

Daver
12-10-2007, 08:51 PM
His own Agent says something to that effect Daver - if that's not enough to make it valid discussion, then you need to revisit clarifying a standard of what makes something discussion that is reasonable.

I'm sorry - but I don't get it.

You are digging that hole deeper and wider, his agent said no such thing.

TornLabrum
12-10-2007, 09:01 PM
Just for the record, here is the relevant quote again:

"For the first time, Brian is approaching this like a professional. He works out twice a day and doesn't go out at night. He's working with a top professional trainer and with a nutritionist. He's very focused." - Brian Anderson's agent, Terry Bross

Looks like working out, not going out at night, and taking care of his nutrition is what his agent is talking about.

fquaye149
12-10-2007, 09:06 PM
Just for the record, here is the relevant quote again:



Looks like working out, not going out at night, and taking care of his nutrition is what his agent is talking about.

Which is sort of funny, since the "inside source" contingency says that "not watching game film" was his gravest sin http://soxandthecity.net/smilies/icondarinsz3.gif

Grzegorz
12-10-2007, 09:07 PM
Looks like working out, not going out at night, and taking care of his nutrition is what his agent is talking about.

In addition to selling his client.

jabrch
12-10-2007, 09:20 PM
You are digging that hole deeper and wider, his agent said no such thing.

His own agent said, "for the first time, he is approaching this like a professional"

Daver - I wish I had a clue what you are trying to get through my thick skull - but I just don't. To me, BA was not doing what his manager told him to do; whatever that was - thus he was in the proverbial doghouse. Maybe this is when he does what he is supposed to do and he gets out of the doghouse and we all end up thrilled to not spend a ton of cash on Hunter or Rowand... But I don't see why you are so riled up over me repeating his agent's admission that he hasn't "approached this like a professional"...

RowanDye
12-15-2007, 08:00 PM
His own agent said, "for the first time, he is approaching this like a professional"

Daver - I wish I had a clue what you are trying to get through my thick skull - but I just don't. To me, BA was not doing what his manager told him to do; whatever that was - thus he was in the proverbial doghouse. Maybe this is when he does what he is supposed to do and he gets out of the doghouse and we all end up thrilled to not spend a ton of cash on Hunter or Rowand... But I don't see why you are so riled up over me repeating his agent's admission that he hasn't "approached this like a professional"...

I remember a guy a few years ago that had a TON of talent, but just lacked professionalism to put it all together.

He liked eating whatever he wanted, drinking beer and raising hell. He was never really serious about working out and offseason conditioning.

Thankfully someone gave Bobby Jenks a second chance and he really took advantage of it.

Why does a second chance usually have to come with a change of scenery?

Probably because some people aren't willing to get over the fact that anyone could be immature and selfish enough to jeopardize their chance at the big leagues.

jabrch
12-15-2007, 10:13 PM
Why does a second chance usually have to come with a change of scenery?

Brian will get another chance with this organization...this season

Taliesinrk
12-16-2007, 07:50 PM
Brian will get another chance with this organization...this season

What makes you so sure?

HaroMaster87
12-16-2007, 07:57 PM
What makes you so sure?

not alot of other choices...currently

jabrch
12-17-2007, 09:18 AM
What makes you so sure?

Because at this point, nobody has a lock on the job, so he has a chance. Having a chance doesn't mean he will get MLB ABs. It means he will be given the opportunity to earn them.

This is pretty simple in my eyes. If Brian does what Ozzie and Kenny tells him to do, and if he outperforms the other options, he will get the job. If both of those conditions are not met, he won't. And I don't mind that at all. He works for OG and KW - and should be doing damn close to exactly what they tell him. A vet might get more leeway - but BA gets none - because he hasn't earned it.

fquaye149
12-17-2007, 09:22 AM
Because at this point, nobody has a lock on the job, so he has a chance. Having a chance doesn't mean he will get MLB ABs. It means he will be given the opportunity to earn them.

This is pretty simple in my eyes. If Brian does what Ozzie and Kenny tells him to do, and if he outperforms the other options, he will get the job. If both of those conditions are not met, he won't. And I don't mind that at all. He works for OG and KW - and should be doing damn close to exactly what they tell him. A vet might get more leeway - but BA gets none - because he hasn't earned it.

He better hit, like, .400 in spring training then.

balke
12-17-2007, 09:24 AM
He better hit, like, .400 in spring training then.

At this point he's probably the backup Ofer off the bench either way. Owens would have to look pretty bad, and BA would have to do a whole lot to win the starting job on opening day.

Carolina Kenny
12-17-2007, 09:46 AM
He better hit, like, .400 in spring training then.

I think Ozzie will be looking for quality at bats plus he must look "grindy"

fquaye149
12-17-2007, 09:53 AM
At this point he's probably the backup Ofer off the bench either way. Owens would have to look pretty bad, and BA would have to do a whole lot to win the starting job on opening day.

That's too bad, because Owens can't field for ****.

And despite the "promise" he's shown at the plate, he hasn't really shown he can hit for **** either.

jabrch
12-17-2007, 10:43 AM
I think Ozzie will be looking for quality at bats

I think he will have to look good at the plate. What his outcomes are is much less important. Spring training performances are not evaluated purely by the statistics they generate. (at least not by those who's input is relevant)

champagne030
12-17-2007, 10:58 AM
I think he will have to look good at the plate. What his outcomes are is much less important. Spring training performances are not evaluated purely by the statistics they generate. (at least not by those who's input is relevant)

Hopefully, this same standard was used to evaluate September stats or the relevant people making decisions are hypocrites.

spiffie
12-17-2007, 11:15 AM
Hopefully, this same standard was used to evaluate September stats or the relevant people making decisions are hypocrites.
You mean the stats Owens put up in September against starting pitchers including:
Johan Santana (twice)
Jake Westbrook (twice)
Paul Byrd (twice)
Justin Verlander
Nate Robertson
Jeremy Bonderman
Fausto Carmona
Bartolo Colon
Jered Weaver
Kenny Rogers
Brian Bannister
Carlos Silva
Gil Meche

Yup, I can see why that roster should be seen exactly the same way as what someone does against a AA pitcher or a MLB starter with a 3 inning limit.

fquaye149
12-17-2007, 11:23 AM
You mean the stats Owens put up in September against starting pitchers including:
Johan Santana (twice)
Jake Westbrook (twice)
Paul Byrd (twice)
Justin Verlander
Nate Robertson
Jeremy Bonderman
Fausto Carmona
Bartolo Colon
Jered Weaver
Kenny Rogers
Brian Bannister
Carlos Silva
Gil Meche

Yup, I can see why that roster should be seen exactly the same way as what someone does against a AA pitcher or a MLB starter with a 3 inning limit.

So I suppose we won't be hearing about Anderson's 2007 regular season stats as a negative then given the pitching he went up against, right?

champagne030
12-17-2007, 11:51 AM
You mean the stats Owens put up in September against starting pitchers including:
Johan Santana (twice)
Jake Westbrook (twice)
Paul Byrd (twice)
Justin Verlander
Nate Robertson
Jeremy Bonderman
Fausto Carmona
Bartolo Colon
Jered Weaver
Kenny Rogers
Brian Bannister
Carlos Silva
Gil Meche

Yup, I can see why that roster should be seen exactly the same way as what someone does against a AA pitcher or a MLB starter with a 3 inning limit.

I was actually thinking about Jerry getting AB's against:

Durbin
Garza
Mastny
Miner
Guerrier
Slowey
Cali
E. Santana
Bootcheck
Davies
Duckworth
Hochevar
Blackburn
Baker
Bonser
DePaula
Rincon
Braun
Buckner

Meh, I don't get excited looking at those pitchers.

voodoochile
12-17-2007, 12:02 PM
I was actually thinking about Jerry getting AB's against:

Durbin
Garza
Mastny
Miner
Guerrier
Slowey
Cali
E. Santana
Bootcheck
Davies
Duckworth
Hochevar
Blackburn
Baker
Bonser
DePaula
Rincon
Braun
Buckner

Meh, I don't get excited looking at those pitchers.

Just curious - how many of those were actually call ups getting their first or second crack at the league because their team was out of contention?

If the answer is "not many" than doesn't that speak more to the level of pitching in the league than anything else? In other words, everyone gets to hit off crappy pitching and will again next year. I mean there just aren't that many teams who go 5 deep in the starting rotation where you'd say, "I'll take any one of those guys on a 5 year deal."

I'm not saying Owens is or is not the "real deal" but am cautiously optimistic he will improve on his numbers last year because he progressed as the year went on.

If he will get the chance to hit off of most of those pitchers in your list again this year, who cares if you don't like them. The only thing that matters would be his production and production is production against studs or wannabes and yes I know there will be less if any wannabes in the playoff rotations, but that's something that is not only a long way off, but would be a delight to have to worry about...

soltrain21
12-17-2007, 12:03 PM
Now we are making arguments about WHO people are getting hits against? Unbelievable.

champagne030
12-17-2007, 12:15 PM
Just curious - how many of those were actually call ups getting their first or second crack at the league because their team was out of contention?

If the answer is "not many" than doesn't that speak more to the level of pitching in the league than anything else? In other words, everyone gets to hit off crappy pitching and will again next year. I mean there just aren't that many teams who go 5 deep in the starting rotation where you'd say, "I'll take any one of those guys on a 5 year deal."



About 1/2 were minor league callups when rosters expanded.

Believe me, at this point I'm all for Owens getting a shot in CF this season. I just don't want him getting the job based off of last September.

ikeWCWS
12-17-2007, 09:27 PM
Perhaps BA should go live with Greg Walker until spring training.

Nellie_Fox
12-17-2007, 11:44 PM
Perhaps BA should go live with Greg Walker until spring training.Oh lord, here come the card playing "jokes."

CLR01
12-18-2007, 12:14 AM
Perhaps BA should go live with Greg Walker until spring training.


Does he need another crash course on how to let his natural ability correct his swing and make him a better hitter?

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2007, 06:04 AM
Does he need another crash course on how to let his natural ability correct his swing and make him a better hitter?

No. But his defense would improve if Rowand gave him a "crash course" on fielding.
:bandance:

ode to veeck
12-18-2007, 10:36 AM
No. But his defense would improve if Rowand gave him a "crash course" on fielding.
:bandance:

Roward would do better if he got lessons from Brian on "better routes" and Aaron could teach him more than a thing or two about swinging the stick

spiffie
12-18-2007, 10:41 AM
Oh lord, here come the card playing "jokes."
Ha! You would think that would be the natural course of things, but somehow it turned into yet another Rowand joke! :tongue:

Pods4455
01-03-2008, 04:08 PM
LOL. BA once told me that if he wasn't playing pro baseball he'd be in the NBA.

He also whinned every other day this season about how "ozzie hates me."

Which most of us knew anyways.

Brian working out and taking things seriously- IS- in all actuality- a big jump. If anyone personally knew him before, they knew what this kid lived for was drinking, partying, having sex w/ more than one girl in a night (or at a time), and playing baseball because it was fun.

He didnt take it seriously @ all

Until he got hurt, and couldnt play for a while- then he started to think "well... maybe playing IS what i want more than anything else."

Good for him for maturing and taking this "Seriously"... he is SO young-- it sucks he had the outlook he did, but im glad he's decided not to screw his teammates, and us fans, over anymore.

TheCommander
01-03-2008, 05:22 PM
:?::o::rolleyes:

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 05:27 PM
LOL. BA once told me that if he wasn't playing pro baseball he'd be in the NBA.

He also whinned every other day this season about how "ozzie hates me."

Which most of us knew anyways.

Brian working out and taking things seriously- IS- in all actuality- a big jump. If anyone personally knew him before, they knew what this kid lived for was drinking, partying, having sex w/ more than one girl in a night (or at a time), and playing baseball because it was fun.

He didnt take it seriously @ all

Until he got hurt, and couldnt play for a while- then he started to think "well... maybe playing IS what i want more than anything else."

Good for him for maturing and taking this "Seriously"... he is SO young-- it sucks he had the outlook he did, but im glad he's decided not to screw his teammates, and us fans, over anymore.

Were you at the park with the big green wall in left? First base side, about halfway up the aisle? I had the same dream.

Jerome
01-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Brian working out and taking things seriously- IS- in all actuality- a big jump. If anyone personally knew him before, they knew what this kid lived for was drinking, partying, having sex w/ more than one girl in a night (or at a time), and playing baseball because it was fun.


man I wish I was Brian Anderson :redneck

Lorenzo Barcelo
01-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Were you at the park with the big green wall in left? First base side, about halfway up the aisle eating a hot dog? I had the same dream.

fixed it.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2008, 07:43 PM
LOL. BA once told me that if he wasn't playing pro baseball he'd be in the NBA.

He also whinned every other day this season about how "ozzie hates me."

Which most of us knew anyways.

Brian working out and taking things seriously- IS- in all actuality- a big jump. If anyone personally knew him before, they knew what this kid lived for was drinking, partying, having sex w/ more than one girl in a night (or at a time), and playing baseball because it was fun.

He didnt take it seriously @ all

Until he got hurt, and couldnt play for a while- then he started to think "well... maybe playing IS what i want more than anything else."

Good for him for maturing and taking this "Seriously"... he is SO young-- it sucks he had the outlook he did, but im glad he's decided not to screw his teammates, and us fans, over anymore.

It's true. Youth is wasted on the young.

:)

TommyJohn
01-03-2008, 07:59 PM
man I wish I was Brian Anderson :redneck

hell, yeah.

Hitmen77
01-25-2008, 09:45 AM
There's a new Merkin article on Anderson on whitesox.com.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080124&content_id=2354706&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Hey, if he can get his **** together and live up to his potential - all the better for the Sox. I would be great to have a bona-fide defensive CF fall into our laps.

But I'm glad the Sox aren't counting on this happening. Interesting how, in all this talk about OF options this winter, BA gets almost no mention. Quite a fall for the guy KW made the starting CF for the defending world champs 2 years ago. Maybe Anderson is realizing now that this is really make-or-break for his career since the Sox obviously are planning for '08 as if he weren't around.

It's Time
01-25-2008, 09:49 AM
Whatever. BA, imo, will be a distant memory by the all star break. He should have got it by now and to have an article state he is NOW going to act like a professional is a bit too late, all things considered.

oeo
01-25-2008, 09:53 AM
I don't think he fits into their long-term plans at all, anymore.

I still think it seemed like he had that cockiness still with him, but I did like this quote:
Really, I blame myself because it took me however long to get this wakeup call...

WSI tells me it's Ozzie's fault...

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 10:06 AM
Keep the positive PR coming if nothing else, it raises his trade value and if he has indeed turned the corner, then it gives the team even more options. Having more competition for really one open OF spot is a good thing. Now the Sox only need 1 of 3 players to play up to their potential this season for the team to have a real solid roster and if a second develops by next year, Dye can go to DH and Thome can try his luck elsewhere.

palehozenychicty
01-25-2008, 10:29 AM
This kid has been endlessly bashed here and deservedly so, but if he plays well in ST and acts properly, then at the minimum, he's great trade bait. I hope he does his thing. The team and organization will respect him a whole lot more, in my mind.

RowanDye
01-25-2008, 11:08 AM
This kid has been endlessly bashed here and deservedly so, but if he plays well in ST and acts properly, then at the minimum, he's great trade bait. I hope he does his thing. The team and organization will respect him a whole lot more, in my mind.

Is there anything preventing Anderson from playing out the year at AAA, other than the fact that he doesn't want to?

Does he have to be traded?

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 11:11 AM
Is there anything preventing Anderson from playing out the year at AAA, other than the fact that he doesn't want to?

Does he have to be traded?

Is he close to being Rule 5 draft eligible?

California Sox
01-25-2008, 11:31 AM
Is he close to being Rule 5 draft eligible?

He would be Rule 5 draft eligible, if he weren't on the 40 man roster. The Rule 5 draft has nothing to do with the 25-man active roster.

And I believe he has one more option left, so he may not like it but he could be sent down to AAA.

kittle42
01-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Does he have to be traded?

For what, a bat rack?

FarWestChicago
01-25-2008, 04:43 PM
I had a negative attitude and that chip wasn't getting me anywhere," Anderson told MLB.com earlier this week. "The thing is, I have to be mature about it.I hope BA comes into spring training and shows what we all hoped he could do. :D:

JB98
01-25-2008, 05:54 PM
I hope BA comes into spring training and shows what we all hoped he could do. :D:

BA has never been that bad during spring training though, West. It's the regular season that has been his problem. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Anderson have a great March.

Whether that's enough to make the club, who knows? If he plays well all spring, I'm sure his defenders will be out in force. I want to see him perform when it matters for the first time in his career.

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 06:03 PM
BA has never been that bad during spring training though, West. It's the regular season that has been his problem. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Anderson have a great March.

Whether that's enough to make the club, who knows? If he plays well all spring, I'm sure his defenders will be out in force. I want to see him perform when it matters for the first time in his career.

It's going to have a LOT more to do with the attitude he displays than the results he gets on the field, but maybe he shows some hustle and pop and becomes a valuable addition in the Crede trade.

TomBradley72
01-25-2008, 07:39 PM
I am VERY skeptical about BA's ability to contribute to the 2008 White Sox, BUT..if he could deliver a solid .260-270 and reduce the strikeouts a little...with his glove...it would give us a huge lift in CF and for our defense overall...we've had a big hole there since Rowand left.

Platoon him and Owens...get Swisher into a corner OF position...have Swisher play LF against RHPs and DH against LHPs.

sox1970
01-25-2008, 07:43 PM
I am VERY skeptical about BA's ability to contribute to the 2008 White Sox, BUT..if he could deliver a solid .260-270 and reduce the strikeouts a little...with his glove...it would give us a huge lift in CF and for our defense overall...we've had a big hole there since Rowand left.

Platoon him and Owens...get Swisher into a corner OF position...have Swisher play LF against RHPs and DH against LHPs.

The ship has sailed for Anderson. He wants to be traded, and he'll be accomodated.

RowanDye
01-25-2008, 09:14 PM
I am VERY skeptical about BA's ability to contribute to the 2008 White Sox, BUT..if he could deliver a solid .260-270 and reduce the strikeouts a little...with his glove...it would give us a huge lift in CF and for our defense overall...we've had a big hole there since Rowand left.

Platoon him and Owens...get Swisher into a corner OF position...have Swisher play LF against RHPs and DH against LHPs.

So Quentin goes to Charlotte?

duke of dorwood
01-25-2008, 09:20 PM
I hope BA comes into spring training and shows what we all hoped he could do. :D:

I'd much rather carry him for defense than some of the outfield play I saw last year. He may make outs, but he creates outs in the field.

JB98
01-25-2008, 10:10 PM
I'd much rather carry him for defense than some of the outfield play I saw last year. He may make outs, but he creates outs in the field.

Personally, I don't like the idea of carrying a player just to be a late-inning defensive replacement, especially in the outfield. Ideal bench players are versatile and can contribute to the offense in some way, be it with speed or with extra-base pop. Owens would be a better bench player than BA just because he can come off the bench and steal a bag.

If Anderson shows he can make contact consistently, he has a shot at a roster spot. He can drive the ball on the rare occasions he hits it.