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View Full Version : When's it ok to love the sox, but be pessimistic about the team's chances???


It's Dankerific
12-06-2007, 03:16 AM
I haven't really posted much this offseason. I don't hate Kenny, and I don't think he's god's gift to me because of 2005. I think we can all agree this is a real difficult offseason because we're coming off a 90 loss season, we're impatient for improvement. But, TOPIC QUESTION, When is it ok to be pessimistic about the White Sox having a successful season? I think its great that some posters have perpetual rose colored glasses on. But lets not talk down to the "realist" or "pessimist" (based on your perspective.) My observations, after living through 2007 on WSI As I see it :

1st day after World Series till 1st FA signing day: Don't complain yet, we can't even sign anyone yet
1st FA signing day to Winter Meetings: Don't Complain yet, its not the winter meetings yet
During the winter meetings: Don't Complain yet, the winter meetings aren't over yet
Anytime in Dec/Jan after winter meetings: Don't Complain yet, we signed X on december 22 in 2004, Y on January 13in 2005, we got time!
February before Spring Training: Don't complain yet, we don't know who is going to succeed in ST
Spring Training: Don't complain yet, ST isnt over, rookies play some of those games, a deal can still be made like 200X
Between ST and 1st game of season: Don't complain yet, not 1 game has been played yet, we're all in first place at 0-0!
April: Don't complain yet, its just a slow start
May: Don't complain yet, not even 25% of the year has been played!!
June: Don't complain yet, we're about to make a move, weather is warming up!
July: Don't complain yet, over half the season left and we can make a trade before july 31!
August 1 -20th: Don't complain yet, we're not MATHEMATICALLY eliminated yet.
August 21-End of season: Don't complain, Hindsite is 20/20, I bet YOUR happy the sox lost, in fact, its your bad karma that made them lose
End of season - End of WS: Don't complain, we're gonna retool this offseason! Its just a fluke! Everyone on the team will play better next year and we'll get ALL the big FA's and trades we want!!!

So can someone let me know when I can complain that my favorite sports team in the world lost 90 games in one season while not even looking close to being able to win most of them, and I've already seen one of my favorite SP be traded, my favorite current player most likely to be traded or DFA because he had back surgery, and the farm system is going to be ranked 2nd to last???

Sorry if this needs to be moved to the Roadhouse...

IlliniSox4Life
12-06-2007, 03:27 AM
This is the way I see it:

Yeah, sure, you can disagree or dislike any of the moves made by the team whenever you want. You can also want them to make certain moves whenever you want. What it all comes down to though is fun. Baseball is a pastime. It's not meant to stress you out but rather to relieve stress. Sometimes people get so ridiculously worked up about things, and that's not O.K. It is good to be passionate about something, but why are you going to stress yourself out and be so upset? It isn't going to help anything. You are spending money on tickets, merchandise, and everything else. If it is making you so miserable, why even spend the time and money?

santo=dorf
12-06-2007, 05:39 AM
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes and 12 seconds after Memorial Day a Portal opens up for 30 minutes where it is fair to be critical of the team without being label a "dark cloud" or pessimist. Once that portal is closed, any critical thoughts are to be considered "20/20 Hindsight."

alohafri
12-06-2007, 07:19 AM
I haven't really posted much this offseason. I don't hate Kenny, and I don't think he's god's gift to me because of 2005. I think we can all agree this is a real difficult offseason because we're coming off a 90 loss season, we're impatient for improvement. But, TOPIC QUESTION, When is it ok to be pessimistic about the White Sox having a successful season? I think its great that some posters have perpetual rose colored glasses on. But lets not talk down to the "realist" or "pessimist" (based on your perspective.) My observations, after living through 2007 on WSI As I see it :

1st day after World Series till 1st FA signing day: Don't complain yet, we can't even sign anyone yet
1st FA signing day to Winter Meetings: Don't Complain yet, its not the winter meetings yet
During the winter meetings: Don't Complain yet, the winter meetings aren't over yet
Anytime in Dec/Jan after winter meetings: Don't Complain yet, we signed X on december 22 in 2004, Y on January 13in 2005, we got time!
February before Spring Training: Don't complain yet, we don't know who is going to succeed in ST
Spring Training: Don't complain yet, ST isnt over, rookies play some of those games, a deal can still be made like 200X
Between ST and 1st game of season: Don't complain yet, not 1 game has been played yet, we're all in first place at 0-0!
April: Don't complain yet, its just a slow start
May: Don't complain yet, not even 25% of the year has been played!!
June: Don't complain yet, we're about to make a move, weather is warming up!
July: Don't complain yet, over half the season left and we can make a trade before july 31!
August 1 -20th: Don't complain yet, we're not MATHEMATICALLY eliminated yet.
August 21-End of season: Don't complain, Hindsite is 20/20, I bet YOUR happy the sox lost, in fact, its your bad karma that made them lose
End of season - End of WS: Don't complain, we're gonna retool this offseason! Its just a fluke! Everyone on the team will play better next year and we'll get ALL the big FA's and trades we want!!!

So can someone let me know when I can complain that my favorite sports team in the world lost 90 games in one season while not even looking close to being able to win most of them, and I've already seen one of my favorite SP be traded, my favorite current player most likely to be traded or DFA because he had back surgery, and the farm system is going to be ranked 2nd to last???

Sorry if this needs to be moved to the Roadhouse...

This should be published! Leave the eternal optimism to the Northsiders. I'm with Steinbrenner on this...I want to win out in April and then begin pulling away.

PorkChopExpress
12-06-2007, 08:49 AM
The problem is you're assuming there is only one right way to be a fan. It seems to me there are fans who are forever hopeful their team can win because that is what makes following the team enjoyable for them. Then there are fans who enjoy criticizing moves, no matter what moves they are, made by their team because that is what gives them enjoyment. There are fans who just watch the game to watch the game and don't go to one extreme or the other.

And then there are posters on this sight who just like to go after other posters on this sight because that is what they enjoy. :D:

russ99
12-06-2007, 08:57 AM
I have no problems with pessimism and the Sox, cause that's been the feeling the majority of my 38+ years of being a Sox fan.

I think fans have a right to get mad or pessimistic when the situation allows.

However, getting mad because the Tigers made a deal and automatically assuming the season's over in December and before Kenny's made all his moves is ridiculous.

I'd wait to pass judgment until Spring Training until the whole picture and extent of payroll commitment by Jerry is complete. Kenny's actually made some nice deals and we're better off with Cabrera as SS, Linebrink as our first true set-up man since 05 and Quentin being a solid young hitter in the mix for the outfield.

I think a lot of the current hand-wringing is over vastly raised (unrealistic?) expectations after winning the Series. If these Sox fans experienced the 70s and 80s (except for 83), they'd know things are pretty damn peachy right now.

I was pretty cheesed off about a 1/3rd of the way through the season, and I trust Kenny was as well and will continue to do something about it.

Tekijawa
12-06-2007, 09:58 AM
Daily!

asindc
12-06-2007, 10:05 AM
I've been saying all along that I don't have a problem with people criticizing KW's moves/non-moves. What I find perplexing, however, is that many of my fellow Sox fans ASSUME that what has transpired so far means that the Sox won't be competitive four months from now and into the season.

More to the point, it's as if the naysayers are saying it is pointless to believe the Sox, specficially KW, can build a competitive team for 2008 from this point. All I've been saying is that KW has a track record that says he can. I'm not saying he will, but I'm certainly not going to say, as of December 6, that he can't.

fquaye149
12-06-2007, 11:03 AM
I have no problems with pessimism and the Sox, cause that's been the feeling the majority of my 38+ years of being a Sox fan.

I think fans have a right to get mad or pessimistic when the situation allows.

However, getting mad because the Tigers made a deal and automatically assuming the season's over in December and before Kenny's made all his moves is ridiculous.

That's not what people are upset about. They're upset because the Tigers, an already better team, made a deal we were trying to make and created further distance.

I hardly think it's pessimistic to be rational about a team's chances. No one's saying we can't possibly win a game, or compete for 2nd place, but how is it pessimistic to say we are far and away the 3rd best team in this division (at best) and that the pieces aren't out there to close the gap very much?

russ99
12-06-2007, 11:26 AM
I hardly think it's pessimistic to be rational about a team's chances. No one's saying we can't possibly win a game, or compete for 2nd place, but how is it pessimistic to say we are far and away the 3rd best team in this division (at best) and that the pieces aren't out there to close the gap very much?

If it were April 1st or May 1st instead of Dec. 6th, I'd be closer to your way of thinking. Patience. Kenny's not done yet.

Also, this is all on paper. Look at the Cubs last year. Due to their mad spending they were the "favorite" and barely won the division and got swept in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Sure the Tigers have a better lineup than last season and a slightly better rotation, but let's play the games before crowning them champs. I'd rather the Sox win on the field than win in public perception at the Winter Meetings about how good their team looks on paper, and what great signings and trades they made.

I could care less what the perception and projections are, I'd rather wait and see how the Sox actually look next season before counting them out.

soltrain21
12-06-2007, 01:07 PM
If it were April 1st or May 1st instead of Dec. 6th, I'd be closer to your way of thinking. Patience. Kenny's not done yet.



And with that, the thread comes full circle.

Goose
12-06-2007, 01:40 PM
If it were April 1st or May 1st instead of Dec. 6th, I'd be closer to your way of thinking. Patience. Kenny's not done yet.


Ah! The ole number 4 on the list!

spiffie
12-06-2007, 02:05 PM
And with that, the thread comes full circle.
Seriously, to get that response is just too perfect.

fquaye149
12-06-2007, 02:10 PM
If it were April 1st or May 1st instead of Dec. 6th, I'd be closer to your way of thinking. Patience. Kenny's not done yet.

Who is there to get to fill the 4-6 holes we absolutely must fill? Who will we trade, who is available, and how do they improve us.


Also, this is all on paper. Look at the Cubs last year. Due to their mad spending they were the "favorite" and barely won the division and got swept in the 1st round of the playoffs.

They were the favorite of whom? I don't remember any intelligent analysis showing their team to be any kind of a favorite. In fact, most intelligent analysis that picked them to win the division said it was just because the NL Central was horribly weak. Lo and behold, the NL Central was horribly weak and they won the division.

Just because a game is not played on paper doesn't mean that examining personnel qualititatively is irrelevant. Cleveland was much better than us last year and there's no reason to think they won't improve. Detroit was much better than us last year and upgraded.

This isn't the 2006 White Sox, where their improvements were of a team that barely won the division. We're talking about two teams who beat our Sox by 18 and 24 games each.


Sure the Tigers have a better lineup than last season and a slightly better rotation, but let's play the games before crowning them champs. I'd rather the Sox win on the field than win in public perception at the Winter Meetings about how good their team looks on paper, and what great signings and trades they made.

No one's crowning them champs. People are saying it's unrealistic to expect the Sox to compete. We finished a distant fourth last year, haven't improved the team very much, there doesn't seem to be anyone available to improve the team very much, AND all the teams ahead of us got better or stayed as good. This means Kenny shouldn't be looking at our team saying "well anything could happen, so I'll do all I can to try to win the playoffs this year." He ought to be rational about our lack of a chance to win the division and focus on making 08 as productive as possible for 09 when our rookies will have had a chance to mature, some of our nonessential parts will have had a chance to increase their trade value, and perhaps free agents might be available to fill the holes we have.


I could care less what the perception and projections are, I'd rather wait and see how the Sox actually look next season before counting them out.


So why are you even posting right now? Obviously, given your stance, no one should say anything about this team until the roster is set and/or the games have been played:?:

All we have right now are perception and projection. Hell, the entire rosters of the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Tigers, and Indians could all come down with a 6 month-long bout of the Mooshoo flu, and all the White Sox's question marks could have startlingly great years.

Or not.

But what's the point of talking like that? Why not look at the players we've assembled, be rational about our team's shortcomings and realistic about the superior teams in our division's strengths.

No, it's not a pleasant thought to think we're not going to be a playoff team in 08, but that's the way it is. What would be even more unpleasant is if no one in the Sox organization would admit that and "geared up" for the lost cause that is a playoff run in 08 in such a way to prevent us from competing in 2009.