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View Full Version : Blast from the Past (Some Perspective)


MisterB
12-05-2007, 07:45 PM
My inquiring mind led me into the dusty back shelves of the WSI Archives to get some perspective on the current goings on with the Sox. One particular entry caught my eye:

Sox a .500 team again in 2005. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=42386)

It's a stroll through some remarkably familiar territory. It was posted 3 years ago, almost to the day. If you haven't guessed the punch line already, less than 48 hours after this thread was started, Jermaine Dye and Dustin Hermanson were signed to free agent deals, kicking off a flurry of activity from Kenny Williams that would lead to a World Championship.

Enjoy! (or not)

WhiteSox5187
12-05-2007, 07:54 PM
Well...hopefully Kenny starts making some deals this year too.

CLR01
12-05-2007, 08:24 PM
Perhaps we should stroll through the 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 offseasons as well. Since we're bringing up the past, looking for perspective and all. :dunno:

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 08:27 PM
Perhaps we should stroll through the 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 offseasons as well. Since were bringing up the past, looking for perspective and all. :dunno:

Really. Everyone points to how "doom and gloom" everyone was about the 05 season...but we don't dredge up the people who were sure we would win in 07 (myself included).....

Seriously: If you want to expect this team to contend in 08, go right ahead...just realize that the odds are very very long or you're going to end up feeling pretty lousy when it don't happen...

Me, I'm excited at the prospect of seeing what some of our young studs can do in a full season of play. I'm excited to see exactly what we have in Danks, Floyd, and Fields, among others, and am looking forward to seeing them play against a very talented AL Central in terms of pitching and hitting

chisoxmike
12-05-2007, 08:33 PM
Good old Cheeses ....what happened to him?
I went to lunch with good 'ol cheeses the other week. :thumbsup:

MisterB
12-05-2007, 08:54 PM
Really. Everyone points to how "doom and gloom" everyone was about the 05 season...but we don't dredge up the people who were sure we would win in 07 (myself included).....

Seriously: If you want to expect this team to contend in 08, go right ahead...just realize that the odds are very very long or you're going to end up feeling pretty lousy when it don't happen...

Me, I'm excited at the prospect of seeing what some of our young studs can do in a full season of play. I'm excited to see exactly what we have in Danks, Floyd, and Fields, among others, and am looking forward to seeing them play against a very talented AL Central in terms of pitching and hitting

I know the Sox are in a sizable hole. I know the playoffs are a serious longshot.

I'm just fed up with the people pulling out their hair and going on as if KW isn't going to make any other moves to try to improve this team on any level between now and April. The same folks who were dead sure that re-signing Uribe meant he was going to be the starting SS in '08, or the clairvoyants who can see the Tigers' World Series 3-peat ahead, etc., and are howling at anyone who doesn't concede that the Sox are going to be A.L. Central doormats for years to come.

I'm just willing to see what happens over the next 4 months before I generate expectations for the 2008 White Sox.

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 09:04 PM
Good old Cheeses ....what happened to him?
He predicted a third place finish for the White Sox in 2005. He bet his computer with some nutjob who said they would win the World Series that year.

Rockin Robin
12-05-2007, 09:53 PM
I've got a problem with our lineup this year, but I've got an even bigger concern looking at our division. There is no way in all hell we're keeping up with Cleveland and Detroit this year.

JB98
12-06-2007, 02:32 AM
My contribution to that Dec. 2004 thread:

"In order for me to be optimistic, KW would have to add a starting pitcher, a relief pitcher, a catcher, a second baseman and a rightfielder. And he'd have to do all those things without trading CLee or PK."

I guess I wasn't too far off on what KW needed to do. Shortly thereafter, he added Duque, Vizcaino, AJ, Iguchi and Dye. Of course, he did have to give up CLee to do that. :D:

WhiteSoxJunkie
12-06-2007, 06:38 PM
GoSox1917 said "I expect this team to end in first or at least die trying every season." And that was said in December of 04. Wasn't that before the "Win or die trying" marketing campaign started?

voodoochile
12-06-2007, 06:51 PM
I agree that's the attitude to take. In order for me to be optimistic, KW would have to add a starting pitcher, a relief pitcher, a catcher, a second baseman and a rightfielder. And he'd have to do all those things without trading CLee or PK. Obviously, I'm not holding my breath....

How about 2 starting pitchers, a RF, a catcher, a 2B a couple of relievers, a stud leadoff LF and probably a couple of other things I am forgetting...:D:

Edit: Whoops you beat me to it...

sullythered
12-06-2007, 07:39 PM
Me, I'm excited at the prospect of seeing what some of our young studs can do in a full season of play. I'm excited to see exactly what we have in Danks, Floyd, and Fields, among others, and am looking forward to seeing them play against a very talented AL Central in terms of pitching and hitting

Rock and roll.

Jjav829
12-06-2007, 07:47 PM
Because people were pessimistic about the Sox chances before 05, and we won the World Series, if we're pessimistic about the Sox chances before 08, we'll win the World Series again!

JB98
12-06-2007, 07:56 PM
Because people were pessimistic about the Sox chances before 05, and we won the World Series, if we're pessimistic about the Sox chances before 08, we'll win the World Series again!

The 2008 Sox are gonna suck! ****, we'll be lucky if we win 50 games!!!!

:supernana::supernana:

A. Cavatica
12-06-2007, 10:45 PM
Yikes. To me, this looks nothing like the 2004/2005 offseason.

I thought KW had a great 2004/2005 offseason, and I thought we'd be good (though I never thought we'd be good enough to win it all).

Even though I like Cabrera/Garland, the Linebrink signing, and Quentin/Carter, I think the team as currently constituted (Dec. 6) would be under .500. We have three question marks in the starting rotation, three more in the lineup (CF/LF/2B), and our trade bait (Crede, Uribe, Contreras, Floyd, last year's failed relievers, last year's failed outfielders) is pretty poor.

KW obviously isn't done, but that centerfielder pool is sure drying up in a hurry!

chisox77
12-06-2007, 11:04 PM
I joined WSI at about that time, and was excited about the moves KW made, because the White Sox were more balanced as a result.

:cool:

santo=dorf
12-06-2007, 11:12 PM
It's not as entertaining as the 2007 prediction thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85508&)

DumpJerry
12-07-2007, 12:09 AM
It's not as entertaining as the 2007 prediction thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85508&)
Craig Grebeck (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1522880&postcount=42) got pretty darn close. 78 wins, 4th place finish.

kaufsox
12-07-2007, 12:55 AM
meh, I'm really sitting with the wait and see crowd, but to say I like what the Tigers have done would be a lie. I put my money down on the Sox in 05 and it paid off. Not so much last year, but hey, that's why it is a game of chance. My money is on the Sox in 08 too. The thing that killed us last year was the unbelievably slow start of the offense. If that happens again, the team will be in another hole, but quick start and things will look good. Also there seems to be a lot of talk about the Indians and Twins and they don't seem to be making a lot of moves either. Minnesota without Santana isn't the same team and Cleveland has started slow every year this decade, with the exception of last year. The talk last year in the cleve was if Wedge didn't get out of the gate fast he would be fired. I can't say the thought of the Indians returning to form is out of the question. No doubt the Sox have some work to do, but man, its December

santo=dorf
12-07-2007, 06:39 AM
Craig Grebeck (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1522880&postcount=42) got pretty darn close. 78 wins, 4th place finish.
.....and yet he was lamblasted every time he was critical of the team or Darin Erstad. Here's another gem (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1469446) from him:
Last Five Seasons OPS+ (100 is the league average)
88
75
95
89
60

Last Five Seasons EQA (Takes into account baserunning, sacrifices. .260 is league average)
.247
.233
.263
.247
.206

Don't try to tell me Erstad can "handle the bat." He can handle it below league average the last five seasons. PECOTA has Erstad checking in at .241/.295/.321. How gritty.

What would I have done? If we were so desperate for a capable backup 1B (assuming Rob couldn't handle it), why not sign Carlos Pena? After all, the guy can actually hit and wouldn't be a black hole like Erstad.

Use Terrero (PECOTA projectd .262/.312/.420) to backup Anderson.

Anyone who thinks he was the "missing piece" last year (in terms of attitude), how in the hell do you figure? Was he going to have all of our pitchers collectively pull their heads out of their butts and start pitching to their potential?

Frater Perdurabo
12-07-2007, 07:04 AM
The thing that killed us last year was the unbelievably slow start of the offense. If that happens again, the team will be in another hole, but quick start and things will look good.

I disagree to an extent. Yes, the offense did start out badly. But the pitching was lights-out and the Sox were 12-11 at the end of April, and 24-20 after beating the Rays on May 25.

Then, for the next month (May 27 through June 24), they went 5-22.

Then they played a stretch where they were 6 games over .500 (improving from 13 games under .500 to 7 under .500), but then crapped the bed, going 3-18 (Aug 11 though Sept. 1).

The offense stunk throughout the year. But when the bullpen was good during the first seven weeks of the season, the Sox had a winning record.

sullythered
12-07-2007, 07:42 PM
Yikes. To me, this looks nothing like the 2004/2005 offseason.


We've been more active this year than we were at this point in the 04/05 offseason. Most of the moves didn't occur until way later.

Gosox1917
12-07-2007, 08:43 PM
GoSox1917 said "I expect this team to end in first or at least die trying every season." And that was said in December of 04. Wasn't that before the "Win or die trying" marketing campaign started?

I should be getting some sort of royalties, shouldn't I?

Wow, after reading that I am amazed at how big of an optimist I used to be about this team. I think you all have jaded me. :tongue:

Nellie_Fox
12-08-2007, 01:11 AM
Wow, after reading that I am amazed at how big of an optimist I used to be about this team. I think you all have jaded me. :tongue:Come away from the dark side. Follow the light.

Sox fans should always be skeptical; it's part of our heritage, and well-earned. What we shouldn't do is quit on the team.

FarWestChicago
12-08-2007, 06:27 AM
Sox fans should always be skeptical; it's part of our heritage, and well-earned. What we shouldn't do is quit on the team.But, if you do want quitters, WSI is the right place to find them.

Frater Perdurabo
12-08-2007, 07:34 AM
But, if you do want quitters, WSI is the right place to find them.

What I don't understand is this: if they are quitting, why the hell do they continue to punish themselves by following the Sox and posting here?

I don't quit believing in the Sox until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. And then my hope turns to the next season.

Nellie_Fox
12-09-2007, 02:29 AM
But, if you do want quitters, WSI is the right place to find them.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:glQWI1mABd3JKM:www.gonemovies.com/WWW/MyWebFilms/Drama/WizardLionClose.jpg Ain't it the truth; ain't it the truth?

JermaineDye05
12-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Ha this is about the time I joined WSI, hence the name.

PKalltheway
12-09-2007, 10:04 PM
What I'm about to say is very cliché, but I'm going to take a "wait and see" approach. I have no clue whatsoever as to how good (or bad) this team will be next year. On paper, they don't look as good as the Tigers, but championships aren't won on paper.