PDA

View Full Version : Contraction, Relocation or Proven Solution?


getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 05:04 PM
A discussion hot today was about the Marlins. Are they good or bad for baseball. Should they be contracted or possibly relocated. What do you think?

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Do you really want to know what I think?:rolleyes:

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Do you really want to know what I think?:rolleyes:
Yes.:D:

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 05:35 PM
Yes.:D:
I think you need to learn how to use upper case letters.

I think you need to learn that there are major differences between "their," "there," and "they're." I'll let you figure it out.

You asked.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 05:45 PM
I think you need to learn how to use upper case letters.

I think you need to learn that there are major differences between "their," "there," and "they're." I'll let you figure it out.

You asked.
hIJACK?

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 05:48 PM
hIJACK?
No, smartass. You asked in the opening post what we thought. I told you what I thought.

I say "no" to contraction or relocation, but yes to proven solution. What is the proven solution? Learning how to type and use correct words. Those are my thoughts on your poll.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 05:55 PM
No, smartass. You asked in the opening post what we thought. I told you what I thought.

I say "no" to contraction or relocation, but yes to proven solution. What is the proven solution? Learning how to type and use correct words. Those are my thoughts on your poll.
Whats with the name calling? I asked what you thought in regards to the Marlins not my posting capabilities or, in your opinion, lack thereof.

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 06:14 PM
My opinion about the Marlins:

I don't care. They are an inconsequential team in the National League.

Daver
12-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Whats with the name calling? I asked what you thought in regards to the Marlins not my posting capabilities or, in your opinion, lack thereof.

Is calling someone a smartass really name calling?

I think not.

Had he called you an oxygen thief, which you seriously are, that might be name calling.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Is calling someone a smartass really name calling?

I think not.

Had he called you an oxygen thief, which you seriously are, that might be name calling.
Whats with all the BCKTHR hate today?

areilly
12-05-2007, 07:41 PM
My opinion about the Marlins:

I don't care. They are an inconsequential team in the National League.

Thinking about it more though, if they're going to be perennially awful under current ownership, aren't they essentially inflating NL East teams' win totals by 10-14 a year?

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Thinking about it more though, if they're going to be perennially awful under current ownership, aren't they essentially inflating NL East teams' win totals by 10-14 a year?
If I owned a team, I might be tempted to run it like the Marlins. 8 million payroll, 60 million subsidy on top of other revenue streams.

If I had the same revenue stream and a 100 million payroll, my odds of post season play are about the same.

Just start up the money printing press!

skottyj242
12-06-2007, 09:17 AM
So they get rid of the Marlins and one team in the NL is always off for days at a time? Don't even go they're.

Fenway
12-06-2007, 09:20 AM
Marlins de Montreal has a nice ring to it :tongue:

Dan Mega
12-06-2007, 09:40 AM
2 World Series titles in 10 years is a lot more than many of the MLB teams can claim, so they are doing something right, especially with a miniscule revenue.

Hendu
12-06-2007, 10:00 AM
2 World Series titles in 10 years is a lot more than many of the MLB teams can claim, so they are doing something right, especially with a miniscule revenue.

The first championship doesn't apply to the current situation. Different owner and a team of expensive veterans.

The 2003 World Series was impressive, but it doesn't equal a pattern of success using their low-cost philosophy. Also, even in past rebuilding phases, they were never this cheap. For example, they gave Miguel Cabrera 1.8 mil to sign out of Venezuela.

doublem23
12-06-2007, 10:14 AM
Since the Marlins were created in 1993, only the Yankees have won more World Series (4) and the Red Sox have won as many. They're obviously doing something right. I know the "experts" over at ESPN are chiding the Marlins, but I don't know if they're as bad for baseball as the Yankees and Red Sox.

Either ways, here's hoping the prospects Detroit traded away turn out to be stars and lead Florida to their next World Series title in the 3-4 years. :gulp:

What they need more than anything else, is a new owner.

Hitmen77
12-06-2007, 10:38 AM
Since the Marlins were created in 1993, only the Yankees have won more World Series (4) and the Red Sox have won as many. They're obviously doing something right. I know the "experts" over at ESPN are chiding the Marlins, but I don't know if they're as bad for baseball as the Yankees and Red Sox.

Either ways, here's hoping the prospects Detroit traded away turn out to be stars and lead Florida to their next World Series title in the 3-4 years. :gulp:

What they need more than anything else, is a new owner.

Bingo.

They get $60 million in shared revenue and have an $8 million payroll. I would say that ownership is their biggest problem and not the city they are playing in.

Relocation just means that Loria and Company, after pocketing millions by stripping their payroll, will have fleeced some other city and their taxpayers into buying him a $400 million ballpark.

Hey Marlins, with all the profit you are making with your $8million payroll, why don't you pay for your own darn ballpark.

Hokiesox
12-06-2007, 11:39 AM
I'd like to say they're smart, but then I wouldn't look very smart doing it.

MUsoxfan
12-06-2007, 11:46 AM
They should pry the Marlins out of Loria's hands. There's nothing wrong with the Marlins, there's everything wrong with Loria

ma-gaga
12-06-2007, 12:05 PM
The ownership group of the Marlins is a major problem. It starts and ends with Jeffrey Loria, and the despicable means that he acquired the team.

He essentially is going to be responsible for killing that franchise. He essentially was responsible for killing the Montreal franchise. Bud let him into MLB through a back door, and let him run the team into the ground. It is one of the major black-eyes on Bud's watch which no media outlet wants to cover because it will alienate them from the product.

Until Loria is removed from MLB, there will be a problem with the Marlins.

There should be a special place in hell for Loria; 9th circle:

http://www.stelle.com.br/imagens/Cocito.jpg

yes. The man bugs me.

...
and hey. Our favorite writer Dayn Perry (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7527010) says essentially the same thing.

:gulp:

SBSoxFan
12-06-2007, 01:09 PM
The first championship doesn't apply to the current situation. Different owner and a team of expensive veterans.

Wayne Huizinga had a 1-year plan, and it all came together. No one else has been able to do it since; certainly not the Yankees.

LITTLE NELL
12-06-2007, 01:09 PM
Marlins de Montreal has a nice ring to it :tongue:
Montreal had its chance with the Expos. How about San Antonio?

Fenway
12-06-2007, 01:16 PM
Montreal had its chance with the Expos. How about San Antonio?

Montreal deserves another chance....Claude Brochu and Loria raped the fans of that city.

Brochu wrote the book on how to make money by revenue sharing

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513TYAFN5KL._AA240_.jpg

GAsoxfan
12-06-2007, 03:33 PM
Outside of the owner, I think the Marlins are one of the better organizations in baseball. They scout well, draft pretty well, develop players, and usually get good quality in trades. Given their payroll limitations, I'm amazed this is their first 90 loss season since 1999. If they could actually afford to keep their stars, they would be a contending for the playoffs most of the time.

Maybe Jerry could acquire Florida's front office and minor league staff in exchange for paying the Marlins' 2008 payroll.

That would probably be the best $8M Jerry ever spent on the Sox.

DSpivack
12-06-2007, 03:42 PM
Don't want to get too political but perhaps someday they'll play in Havana. :cool:

Mohoney
12-07-2007, 01:33 AM
If the Marlins relocate, I think they should go to Louisville and play in the NL Central, with the Pirates moving to the NL East.

A new team in Louisville forming a natural divisional rivalry with the Reds could be a pretty cool thing, as would the Pirates and Phillies renewing hostilities.

You kill 2 birds with one stone in this scenario:

1) You give a shot in the arm, albeit a minor one, to baseball in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati (in their beautiful new stadiums) by playing on geographical rivalries.

2) You get the Marlins out of the sports purgatory that is South Florida and put them in a place that, in my opinion, will show them much more support.

Iwritecode
12-07-2007, 11:51 AM
I think you need to learn how to use upper case letters.

I think you need to learn that there are major differences between "their," "there," and "they're." I'll let you figure it out.

You asked.

Don't even go they're.

:popcorn:

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 12:14 PM
I'd like to say they're smart, but then I wouldn't look very smart doing it.

Let's see.......the Marlins lost 1 more game then the White Sox, were only 18 games out of first instead of 24, and spent 78 million dollars less in payroll. :talktothehand:

skottyj242
12-07-2007, 12:23 PM
:popcorn:

? I was agreeing with Dump, not picking fights. It was a joke.

Fenway
12-07-2007, 12:24 PM
One of my favorite books was written by Loria

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/8/6/8/2/0/webimg/86911550_tp.jpg

DoItForDanPasqua
12-07-2007, 09:11 PM
If the Marlins relocate, I think they should go to Louisville and play in the NL Central, with the Pirates moving to the NL East.

A new team in Louisville forming a natural divisional rivalry with the Reds could be a pretty cool thing, as would the Pirates and Phillies renewing hostilities.

You kill 2 birds with one stone in this scenario:

1) You give a shot in the arm, albeit a minor one, to baseball in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati (in their beautiful new stadiums) by playing on geographical rivalries.

2) You get the Marlins out of the sports purgatory that is South Florida and put them in a place that, in my opinion, will show them much more support.

But Louisville just had a National League team 130 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Grays

DSpivack
12-07-2007, 09:19 PM
One of my favorite books was written by Loria

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/8/6/8/2/0/webimg/86911550_tp.jpg

:?:

Make up your own joke about the price of the book now and the Marlins payroll:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0030684250/ref=dp_olp_2/002-5114428-5941601

Fenway
12-07-2007, 09:37 PM
But Louisville just had a National League team 130 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Grays

Charley Finley almost moved the A's to Louisville in 1964 but the AL voted 9-1 against it.

Hitmen77
12-07-2007, 10:30 PM
If the Marlins relocate, I think they should go to Louisville and play in the NL Central, with the Pirates moving to the NL East.

A new team in Louisville forming a natural divisional rivalry with the Reds could be a pretty cool thing, as would the Pirates and Phillies renewing hostilities.

You kill 2 birds with one stone in this scenario:

1) You give a shot in the arm, albeit a minor one, to baseball in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati (in their beautiful new stadiums) by playing on geographical rivalries.

2) You get the Marlins out of the sports purgatory that is South Florida and put them in a place that, in my opinion, will show them much more support.

Louisville is ranked 62nd in population of metro areas in the US (2000 Census data). I doubt they can support a MLB team in today's economics.

Plus, has Louisville indicated that they want to spend tax dollars to give Loria a new stadium?

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 10:37 PM
:redneckWell, going by WSI logic that Kenny is God because he has a ring..that makes the marlins...whatever is bigger then God (Ditka?!) :redneck

I said leave um alone. They run the team how they want, they win a series every few years, rebuild, win it again. You can't contract a team with that much young talent. I mean seriously, thats a great young team.

Move um to Vegas if you have too

Fenway
12-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Louisville is ranked 62nd in population of metro areas in the US (2000 Census data). I doubt they can support a MLB team in today's economics.

Plus, has Louisville indicated that they want to spend tax dollars to give Loria a new stadium?

Louisville is ranked 42nd on this list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

42 Louisville–Jefferson County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville-Jefferson_County%2C_KY-IN_Metropolitan_Statistical_Area) KY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky)–IN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana) 1,222,216

The biggest markets without MLB are Portland, San Antonio, Orlando, Sacremento and Las Vegas.

Portland would hurt Seattle as the Mariners would lose the Oregon TV market....

DSpivack
12-07-2007, 10:56 PM
Louisville is ranked 42nd on this list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

42 Louisville–Jefferson County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville-Jefferson_County%2C_KY-IN_Metropolitan_Statistical_Area) KY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky)–IN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana) 1,222,216

The biggest markets without MLB are Portland, San Antonio, Orlando, Sacremento and Las Vegas.

Portland would hurt Seattle as the Mariners would lose the Oregon TV market....

Just curious, if Portland is included in Seattle's TV market (in baseball terms), is San Antonio in the Astros or Rangers market? Or the Magic for the Rays (or even the much further Marlins), or Sacramento for Giants/A's or Vegas for whomever?

Hitmen77
12-08-2007, 09:47 AM
Louisville is ranked 42nd on this list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

42 Louisville–Jefferson County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville-Jefferson_County%2C_KY-IN_Metropolitan_Statistical_Area) KY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky)–IN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana) 1,222,216

The biggest markets without MLB are Portland, San Antonio, Orlando, Sacremento and Las Vegas.

Portland would hurt Seattle as the Mariners would lose the Oregon TV market....

I got that 62nd number from this site: http://wireless.fcc.gov/wlnp/documents/top100.pdf

Interesting how far off the two listings are. At any rate, it's tough to support a MLB. Today's economics pretty much demands that a team draw about 2.5 million/yr minimum. It's tough to bring in an average of 25,000 people per game for 81 games over a 6 month period. Plus teams must rely on local TV revenues (which are much lower in smaller markets).

Building a beautiful new ballpark isn't necessarily a ticket to success on the field or at the gate (see Pittsburgh).

The problem with the Marlins isn't necessarily Miami - it's Loria. With the huge gap between his shared MLB revenue and his payroll, why doesn't he just use that to make up for the funding shortfall to getting a new park in Miami built? If he moves his team to Vegas or San Antonio, is he going to suddenly be plugging everything he makes into his team? I doubt it.

PKalltheway
12-11-2007, 08:09 PM
I got that 62nd number from this site: http://wireless.fcc.gov/wlnp/documents/top100.pdf

Interesting how far off the two listings are. At any rate, it's tough to support a MLB. Today's economics pretty much demands that a team draw about 2.5 million/yr minimum. It's tough to bring in an average of 25,000 people per game for 81 games over a 6 month period. Plus teams must rely on local TV revenues (which are much lower in smaller markets).

Building a beautiful new ballpark isn't necessarily a ticket to success on the field or at the gate (see Pittsburgh).

The problem with the Marlins isn't necessarily Miami - it's Loria. With the huge gap between his shared MLB revenue and his payroll, why doesn't he just use that to make up for the funding shortfall to getting a new park in Miami built? If he moves his team to Vegas or San Antonio, is he going to suddenly be plugging everything he makes into his team? I doubt it.
Don't forget that the Reds would more than likely raise all hell if a move to Louisville was considered. Same thing would apply if the Marlins hypothetically considered a move to Indianapolis.

It would be a nice rivalry if such a thing ever happened, though.

Fenway
12-11-2007, 08:24 PM
I got that 62nd number from this site: http://wireless.fcc.gov/wlnp/documents/top100.pdf

Interesting how far off the two listings are

That FCC chart is strange. I have never seen Los Angeles ranked as #1 over New York until now and has Chicago a very close third.