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Ika
12-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Owens has a career .295 average thru 1600 minor league AB, with 172BB to 232K. His K totals were a little high for only 350 AB last year, but his numbers show he'll adjust (or he has a very good chance of adjusting).

He's a slap hitter with little to no power, but he's averaged about 60BB/600AB in the minors and should have comparable success next year. He can steal bases, with a career 71% success rate--not optimal, but pretty good. He may be a 4th OF to some teams, but he suits a need at least for next year, and will be cheap for the next 2.5 years.

Tragg
12-05-2007, 12:42 PM
Does the teal rule apply to thread titles?

Chicken Dinner
12-05-2007, 12:48 PM
Minor league stats mean nothing.

voodoochile
12-05-2007, 12:48 PM
Does the teal rule apply to thread titles?

I moved the posts. Not worth bringing back the old one.

doublem23
12-05-2007, 12:49 PM
Minor league stats mean nothing.

Prepared to be crucified by the BPhanatics.

AJ Hellraiser
12-05-2007, 12:59 PM
I've said it before on these boards... I am very much in Owens' corner... especially right now... and if KW looks to improve significantly elsewhere at this point in time...

Owens finished up strong last season and the poor overall numbers were largely affected by the first call-up.... I think we can all agree that he was better the second time around...

The kid just has blazing speed and should continue to improve... Since I am not a hyprocrit, we might as well give him a major opportunity this year seeing as how it's going to be hard to compete... if he turns into a legit leadoff man it's a big bonus for the future...

The bottom line is that bringing in a fringe CF'er like McLouth, DeJesus or Crsip only hinders his progress and still doesn't turn us into contenders in 2008...

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 01:16 PM
Minor league stats mean nothing.

That just doesn't make sense. They are not the end-all be-all, but they at least indicate that someone might have the necessary ability to compete at the next level. Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but it is at least an indicator. Almost every player in the majors played exceedingly well in the minors. Now not every player that dominated the minors has been able to translate their skill to bigs, but that doesn't mean the minors are meaningless.

And that said, I don't believe in Jerry Owens and I don't think he will ever turn into a good baseball player.

SBSoxFan
12-05-2007, 01:18 PM
He can steal bases, with a career 71% success rate--not optimal, but pretty good.

I'm curious as to how many of those are caught stealing as opposed to pick offs. Owens was 32/40 last season in SB attempts. I'm guessing at least 6 of those were pick offs. Seems to me there's room for improvement there by learning how to read a pitcher's move. On the other hand, there's not much you can do if you can't beat the ball to second base.

I'm an Owens fan too, just not so much for CF. To me, his key stats are OBP and steals. Recall that Scott Podsednik had 0 HR and 25 (?) RBI as the lead off man for a World Series champion.

Chicken Dinner
12-05-2007, 01:20 PM
That just doesn't make sense. They are not the end-all be-all, but they at least indicate that someone might have the necessary ability to compete at the next level. Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but it is at least an indicator. Almost every player in the majors played exceedingly well in the minors. Now not every player that dominated the minors has been able to translate their skill to bigs, but that doesn't mean the minors are meaningless.

I didn't say that the minors are meaningless but using minor league stats when a player is in the bigs is. If a player is in the bigs, falling back and saying his career stats include the minors is ridicules.

champagne030
12-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Owens has a career .295 average thru 1600 minor league AB, with 172BB to 232K. His K totals were a little high for only 350 AB last year, but his numbers show he'll adjust (or he has a very good chance of adjusting).

He's a slap hitter with little to no power, but he's averaged about 60BB/600AB in the minors and should have comparable success next year. He can steal bases, with a career 71% success rate--not optimal, but pretty good. He may be a 4th OF to some teams, but he suits a need at least for next year, and will be cheap for the next 2.5 years.

He needs a cutoff man to get the ball to second base and he can't hit anything that's not on the outer 1/3 of the plate. Kenny ran out of ideas and quit if that's the plan.

Domeshot17
12-05-2007, 02:42 PM
If Jerry Owens is our Starting CF in 2008, we will be no better than we were in 2007.

russ99
12-05-2007, 02:42 PM
What Owens really should be working on this offseason is bunting for hits. He has the raw speed to be a decent lead-off man, but his hitting really hurts his chances.

I wouldn't mind Owens as our 5th outfielder and pinch runner, and occasionally playing and hitting in the 9 spot. But to suggest he's a full-time player is really stretching things. The Sox gave him every chance last season, so I really doubt Kenny will pencil him in for a starting spot.

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 03:21 PM
I didn't say that the minors are meaningless but using minor league stats when a player is in the bigs is. If a player is in the bigs, falling back and saying his career stats include the minors is ridicules.

No you said:
Minor league stats mean nothing.Be more precise in your language.

And I don't think 365 career ABs tell the whole story as there are obvious sample size problems.

nccwsfan
12-05-2007, 03:36 PM
Unlike 80% of the posters on WSI I haven't given up on Owens yet and have no problem with him being the CF/leadoff hitter for 2008. I could care less if he's a slap hitter or not, all I want is for him to work on getting on base more often. He needs to cut down on his strikeouts, and I agree with russ99 that he needs to work more on using the bunt to get on base more often. Again, he's only had 350AB's in the majors- that is not a large enough sample size.

Podsednik 2005
507AB, 80 R, 147 H, 28 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 25 RBI, 47 BB, 75 K, 59 SB, .290/.351/.349

Owens 2007
356AB, 44 R, 95 H, 9 2B, 2 3B, 1 HR, 17 RBI, 27 BB, 63 K, 32 SB, .267/.312/.324

Owens' OBP from July on was .340. If Cabrera can continue his success at the #2 spot the odds of Owens scoring more runs will increase. Also keep in mind that having Owens as an inexpensive option in CF allows them to upgrade elsewhere (read: bullpen and an additional starter).

Does Owens have the potential to become one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball? Probably not. Is he an inexpensive option for the White Sox, and does he have the potential to put up numbers similar to Podsednik 05'? Yes. That would, IMO, be perfectly acceptable for the leadoff spot in 08'.

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 03:49 PM
Unlike 80% of the posters on WSI I haven't given up on Owens yet and have no problem with him being the CF/leadoff hitter for 2008. I could care less if he's a slap hitter or not, all I want is for him to work on getting on base more often. He needs to cut down on his strikeouts, and I agree with russ99 that he needs to work more on using the bunt to get on base more often. Again, he's only had 350AB's in the majors- that is not a large enough sample size.

Podsednik 2005
507AB, 80 R, 147 H, 28 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 25 RBI, 47 BB, 75 K, 59 SB, .290/.351/.349

Owens 2007
356AB, 44 R, 95 H, 9 2B, 2 3B, 1 HR, 17 RBI, 27 BB, 63 K, 32 SB, .267/.312/.324

Owens' OBP from July on was .340. If Cabrera can continue his success at the #2 spot the odds of Owens scoring more runs will increase. Also keep in mind that having Owens as an inexpensive option in CF allows them to upgrade elsewhere (read: bullpen and an additional starter).

Does Owens have the potential to become one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball? Probably not. Is he an inexpensive option for the White Sox, and does he have the potential to put up numbers similar to Podsednik 05'? Yes. That would, IMO, be perfectly acceptable for the leadoff spot in 08'.

If he can increase his OBP 40 points or so for the whole season, he would certainly become a suitable option. However, I think it's a big question if he actually can do that.

Ika
12-05-2007, 03:55 PM
If Jerry Owens is our Starting CF in 2008, we will be no better than we were in 2007.

If Kenny Williams doesn't put on twenty pounds and up his bench press by at least thirty pounds, Iran will never get a nuclear centrifuge shaped like Jayne Mansfield's ovaries.

MCHSoxFan
12-05-2007, 04:37 PM
This is just my opinion. I know barely anybody will agree, however. I would rather have Owens in CF/Leadoff spot and improve BOTH SP & BP than getting an new CF and leadoff hitter and NOT improving BOTH areas of pitching. Once again, this is just my opinion.

jabrch
12-05-2007, 06:19 PM
If we were able to get Hunter at a reasonable price, I'd have been good with it. Same for Rowand. Even Jones, I guess. But if not, I'm fine with Owens and using that $ for something else. Jerry Owens won't be the downfall of this team at the league minimum. I saw a player who looked very good in the late quarter of the summer.

Daver
12-05-2007, 06:26 PM
If Kenny Williams doesn't put on twenty pounds and up his bench press by at least thirty pounds, Iran will never get a nuclear centrifuge shaped like Jayne Mansfield's ovaries.

That will continue to have nothing to do with the fact that Jerry Owens is not a center fielder, and should not play one on TV.