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View Full Version : The flaw of the MLB draft and how Boston exploits it


Fenway
12-05-2007, 09:40 AM
Rob Bradford from the Boston Herald writes this morning about how the other 29 teams in MLB envy where Boston is right now.

One reason is the draft.......which they are exploiting

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1048908

The way the MLB draft is currently constituted, the Red Sox can win the World Series every year and still have an upper hand on the majority of the teams below them in the selection process. The reason? Agents (or advisors) make it clear to teams throughout the draft order that their clients will only enter professional baseball on certain financial terms.

The trend has left baseball’s underprivileged, both talent-wise and financially, passing on talent. Meanwhile, the Red Sox can swoop in and take players they would normally have crossed off their board long before. It is a flaw in the system, but one the Red Sox have expertly taken advantage of.

Bradford was just on WEEI this morning talking about the article and he said one of the prime examples of a team walking away from young talent is the Chicago White Sox. JR's refusal to deal with Scott Boras has hurt the team badly and now with Detroit loading up and Cleveland in good shape the White Sox are in big trouble for the next few years.

skottyj242
12-05-2007, 09:55 AM
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=85014&rendTypeId=4

DumpJerry
12-05-2007, 10:15 AM
News Flash: The Red Sox are not the only well-heeled team out there. The Yankees, Angels, Dodgers are among others that can play this game.

It is not the Red Sox' World and we're just privileged to play in it.

Cuck the Fubs
12-05-2007, 10:22 AM
I am not a rabid poster here, but I read & visit often.

I dunno I may get banned for this, but I'm really tired of reading all the Red Sox stuff on a White Sox board.

I don't care about what the Red Sox do.......I care about what the WHITE SOX do:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Flight #24
12-05-2007, 10:24 AM
News Flash: The Red Sox are not the only well-heeled team out there. The Yankees, Angels, Dodgers are among others that can play this game.

It is not the Red Sox' World and we're just privileged to play in it.

Hooray. The White Sox are disadvantaged relative to more than just the one team!

veeter
12-05-2007, 10:25 AM
I am not a rabid poster here, but I read & visit often.

I dunno I may get banned for this, but I'm really tired of reading all the Red Sox stuff on a White Sox board.

I don't care about what the Red Sox do.......I care about what the WHITE SOX do:angry::angry::angry::angry:I agree. Although, Fenway's cool.

russ99
12-05-2007, 10:27 AM
I for one are happy that the Sox don't play Boras' games, especially at the draft.

Still, that doesn't mean the Sox should pass over the non-Boras represented draftees because they're more expensive.

Could be worse. Look what Houston did this year. Lost out on all 3 top round draftees because McLane wouldn't go over the bonus "slots" that MLB and Uncle Bud sets...

Something tells me that the owners may try to do something about the ridiculous power agents have in the draft in the next CBA.

As for the Red Sox thing, he's just making a point, he could have use the Tigers or any number of teams that give in to Boras' arm-wringing at the draft. This isn't "RSI", yet... :D:

BadBobbyJenks
12-05-2007, 10:34 AM
The way the mlb handles the draft is a joke.

1) trading picks needs to be allowed.
2) teams should not gain draft picks for losing type a and b free agents
3) teams should not lose draft picks for signing type a and b free agents

balke
12-05-2007, 10:34 AM
I just love how they have Boston slated as winning 5 more World Series. Let's just pay no attention to the Angels, Mets, Phillies, and Yankees and whatever other surpise team pops up year in and year out. They get an advantage with money, but they pay a lot for no guarantees.

Fenway
12-05-2007, 10:40 AM
As for the Red Sox thing, he's just making a point, he could have use the Tigers or any number of teams that give in to Boras' arm-wringing at the draft. This isn't "RSI", yet... :D:

Tigers stockpiled their system well and then gave away everything yesterday. They now on paper are the team to beat in the entire AL.

There has been talk that KW is talking to Boston about Coco but an unnamed Boston official says "they have nothing that we are interested in"

The writer was pointing out the flaw of the MLB draft system. What good is having a low pick if you are passing over the best player available????

Good teams should not be able to reload in the draft but they are.

Goose
12-05-2007, 10:44 AM
I for one are happy that the Sox don't play Boras' games, especially at the draft.

This is the problem! You should care. As fans, we ALL should care. Why are we passing better players up becuase of who he is represented by? Unless Boras has been found guilty of breaking some of MLB's rules, then we HAVE to deal with him. If we don't we will be held in a position of weakness for the foreseeable future...until Boras is finished with the game, or until the next Boras srouts his ugly head.

Get the best players available during your selection slot of the draft. Period. Don't pass people up becuase they are "unsignable". If the owners don't like the rules, then they need to change it during the next CBA. Otherwise, shut the **** up and play ball.

russ99
12-05-2007, 10:46 AM
This is the problem! You should care. As fans, we ALL should care. Why are we passing better players up becuase of who he is represented by? Unless Boras has been found guilty of breaking some of MLB's rules, then we HAVE to deal with him. If we don't we will be held in a position of weakness for the foreseeable future...until Boras is finished with the game, or until the next Boras srouts his ugly head.

Get the best players available during your selection slot of the draft. Period. Don't pass people up becuase they are "unsignable". If the owners don't like the rules, then they need to change it during the next CBA. Otherwise, shut the **** up and play ball.

This is what happened with Borchard. They broke the bank and he fizzled. Still the Sox could have dealt Borchard for a king's ransom when he was a top prospect. I guess there's a fine line between a prospect and suspect.

I doubt the Sox will just play ball with Boras and give a draft pick whatever amount Boras wants, and then have to deal with Boras in 6-7 years when that player is a FA.

I don't thing the Sox should stay in the slot, that's being cheap. But I don't want them to deal with Boras' garbage either.

Sockinchisox
12-05-2007, 10:56 AM
I am not a rabid poster here, but I read & visit often.

I dunno I may get banned for this, but I'm really tired of reading all the Red Sox stuff on a White Sox board.

I don't care about what the Red Sox do.......I care about what the WHITE SOX do:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Thats why this board is for the other 29 teams.

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 11:14 AM
News Flash: The Red Sox are not the only well-heeled team out there. The Yankees, Angels, Dodgers are among others that can play this game.

It is not the Red Sox' World and we're just privileged to play in it.

And the Tigers have been doing it better than anyone these last few years.

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 11:16 AM
The way the mlb handles the draft is a joke.

1) trading picks needs to be allowed.
2) teams should not gain draft picks for losing type a and b free agents
3) teams should not lose draft picks for signing type a and b free agents

Those are rules that help lesser market teams.

Goose
12-05-2007, 11:16 AM
This is what happened with Borchard. They broke the bank and he fizzled. Still the Sox could have dealt Borchard for a king's ransom when he was a top prospect. I guess there's a fine line between a prospect and suspect.

I doubt the Sox will just play ball with Boras and give a draft pick whatever amount Boras wants, and then have to deal with Boras in 6-7 years when that player is a FA.

I don't thing the Sox should stay in the slot, that's being cheap. But I don't want them to deal with Boras' garbage either.

Look, what happened with Borchard happens. The Sox got burned by him. Does that mean that they throw up their hands and say "No More Top Picks! Borchard was a bum and took our $5MM bonus with nothing to show for it!"?

No. This is the price you pay to be in this business. If ann owner does not like that price, then there are 2 options> 1) Change the drafting rules and how much money can be given as a bonus based on draft position or 2) sell the team to someone that is going to play the game right.

I think it is not right for MLB draftees to have free range on what their signing bonus will be. I say get some parameters around that in order to make every team equal in the draft. Top 10 draftee? You get UP TO $1MM in signing bonus. 1st Round? Up to $750k...and it goes down from there. BUT, that is not how it is structured right now, so deal with the way things are. Get the best player you can at the slot you have to pick in and pay them what it will take to sign them. Develop your farm becuase in the long run, it will only benefit the team.

BadBobbyJenks
12-05-2007, 11:22 AM
Those are rules that help lesser market teams.


Yes.

mjmcend
12-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Yes.

So you want to increase the competitive disadvantage of small market teams?

CRAW
12-05-2007, 12:21 PM
It is not the Red Sox' World and we're just privileged to play in it.

I'm not reading all the other posts after reading this. Well said.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 02:03 PM
I for one are happy that the Sox don't play Boras' games, especially at the draft.


Thats the reason we don't have Miguel Cabrera right now;
That could be the reason we don't have Arod right now;
Thats the reason why Joe Crede will not be here come April

schmitty9800
12-05-2007, 02:50 PM
Sounds like the Herald is about the same quality as the Tribune; say something that everybody knows but make it sound like you figured it out.

russ99
12-05-2007, 02:57 PM
Thats the reason we don't have Miguel Cabrera right now;
That could be the reason we don't have Arod right now;
Thats the reason why Joe Crede will not be here come April

And we'll be better off because of all three.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 03:22 PM
And we'll be better off because of all three.
Ya I knwo who wants a SS who will hit 300 40 hrs and 130 rbi's year in and year out.
Ya who wants a 3B/LF/DH who will hit 320 35 hrs and drive in 120 rbis every year.
Ya who wants a 3B who will play GG defense and contribute 25-30 hrs and 80-90 rbis year in and year out.

johnr1note
12-05-2007, 04:32 PM
Ya I knwo who wants a SS who will hit 300 40 hrs and 130 rbi's year in and year out.

Yes, and he will demand $30 million or more a year, making it impossible to pay for the other two players on your list, as well as any quality on the rest of your roster. See also the Texas Rangers' deal with same player. How many championships did they win with the vaunted A-Rod in their lineup? How many have the blankety-blank YANKEES won with the vaunted A-Rod in their lineup. Don't get me wrong -- A-Rod is the best player in the game today, and if I could have him on the White Sox, I"d take him in a heartbeat. But what you would have to pay to get him is too much.

Ya who wants a 3B/LF/DH who will hit 320 35 hrs and drive in 120 rbis every year. Is Boras Miguel's agent? I hadn't read that. But any effort to obtain M. Cabrara's services had nothing to do with Boras. (That IS who we're talking about here -- Cabrara, right?). The failure to get Cabrara had everything to do with us not having the kind of prospects Florida wanted, or at least not enough of them. What does that have to do with Scott Boras? What does that have to do with being "small market?"
Ya who wants a 3B who will play GG defense and contribute 25-30 hrs and 80-90 rbis year in and year out. Joe has really only had one monster year. He was really pretty mediocre for most of 2005, but came on strong at the end. Hmm. Joe Crede has hit more than 22 home runs once in his 8 year career. Look, I love Joe Crede. I'd rather have him than a lot of other players. But KW approached him about an extension, and he said no. He wants to test the market. He will be just like all the other Boras clients, and demand an unreasonable amount of money for an unreasonable number of years. We have an MLB ready replacement in Josh Fields -- is he good enough to replace Crede? Maybe, but remember, it took Crede a few years to get to the point where anybody in White Sox fanland would have made a statement like you just make about him. Is Joe Crede worth 20 million a year for 7 years?

Its not a question of "wanting" these players. Its a question of what our organization can afford. Boras has just a big a chip on his shoulder about the White Sox as the White Sox have for him (indeed, from what I've read, Boras is the one who started all of this). Philosophically, the White Sox don't agree with Boras tactics, and therefore won't work with him. The White Sox also won't give long term contracts to pitchers either. Whether you agree with that or not, its the organization's philosophy.

The practice of draft eligible players demanding certain monetary conditions has not always worked either. Recall when the Twins had the first pick in the draft, and wanted to draft Mark Prior. He wanted the big bonus and big contract that Minnesota couldn't offer. So the Twins skipped Prior, and the Cubs got him with the second pick. Recall that the player the Twins drafted instead was Joe Mauer. Which team got the better deal?

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Yes, and he will demand $30 million or more a year, making it impossible to pay for the other two players on your list, as well as any quality on the rest of your roster. See also the Texas Rangers' deal with same player. How many championships did they win with the vaunted A-Rod in their lineup? How many have the blankety-blank YANKEES won with the vaunted A-Rod in their lineup. Don't get me wrong -- A-Rod is the best player in the game today, and if I could have him on the White Sox, I"d take him in a heartbeat. But what you would have to pay to get him is too much.

Is Boras Miguel's agent? I hadn't read that. But any effort to obtain M. Cabrara's services had nothing to do with Boras. (That IS who we're talking about here -- Cabrara, right?). The failure to get Cabrara had everything to do with us not having the kind of prospects Florida wanted, or at least not enough of them. What does that have to do with Scott Boras? What does that have to do with being "small market?"
Joe has really only had one monster year. He was really pretty mediocre for most of 2005, but came on strong at the end. Hmm. Joe Crede has hit more than 22 home runs once in his 8 year career. Look, I love Joe Crede. I'd rather have him than a lot of other players. But KW approached him about an extension, and he said no. He wants to test the market. He will be just like all the other Boras clients, and demand an unreasonable amount of money for an unreasonable number of years. We have an MLB ready replacement in Josh Fields -- is he good enough to replace Crede? Maybe, but remember, it took Crede a few years to get to the point where anybody in White Sox fanland would have made a statement like you just make about him. Is Joe Crede worth 20 million a year for 7 years?

Its not a question of "wanting" these players. Its a question of what our organization can afford. Boras has just a big a chip on his shoulder about the White Sox as the White Sox have for him (indeed, from what I've read, Boras is the one who started all of this). Philosophically, the White Sox don't agree with Boras tactics, and therefore won't work with him. The White Sox also won't give long term contracts to pitchers either. Whether you agree with that or not, its the organization's philosophy.

The practice of draft eligible players demanding certain monetary conditions has not always worked either. Recall when the Twins had the first pick in the draft, and wanted to draft Mark Prior. He wanted the big bonus and big contract that Minnesota couldn't offer. So the Twins skipped Prior, and the Cubs got him with the second pick. Recall that the player the Twins drafted instead was Joe Mauer. Which team got the better deal?
So you wouldn't want Alex Rodriguez on your team? Wow.
If we had drafted the best talent and not worry about their bonus' we might of had the assets to acquire Cabrera.

rdivaldi
12-05-2007, 04:44 PM
So you wouldn't want Alex Rodriguez on your team? Wow.
If we had drafted the best talent and not worry about their bonus' we might of had the assets to acquire Cabrera.

???

What is this "best talent" that you refer to? The White Sox would have had to have been as bad as the Tigers to have acquired Maybin or Miller. A fact that you have been conveniently ignoring for two days now.

Domeshot17
12-05-2007, 04:49 PM
This is what happened with Borchard. They broke the bank and he fizzled. Still the Sox could have dealt Borchard for a king's ransom when he was a top prospect. I guess there's a fine line between a prospect and suspect.

I doubt the Sox will just play ball with Boras and give a draft pick whatever amount Boras wants, and then have to deal with Boras in 6-7 years when that player is a FA.

I don't thing the Sox should stay in the slot, that's being cheap. But I don't want them to deal with Boras' garbage either.

Ok lets cut out all the boras clients. There goes half the first round.

Lets take economical picks again!!!! maybe we can get the 2008 version of Kyle Mculloch!!!! Who cares if other teams are willing to spend and drafting superstar after superstar prospect after we make our pick as long as we don't deal with Boras and pick economically.

Boras does his job as an agent. IF you refuse to work his players, it is because he is a better agent then you are GM. His job is to get his guys the most money he can, and he does that.

Domeshot17
12-05-2007, 04:51 PM
???

What is this "best talent" that you refer to? The White Sox would have had to have been as bad as the Tigers to have acquired Maybin or Miller. A fact that you have been conveniently ignoring for two days now.

Maybe if we made better picks then Anderson-Broadway-Mcculloch-Sweeney-Liotta etc. in the top rounds we would have a minor league system. We didn't, and our system is pathetic. We have 1 hitter who projects to be anything, 1 low minors arm who can be an ace, and a bunch of guys who look like mid rotation to long relievers. I mean, we tout Gio and Egbert, those 2 wouldn't crack the top 5 on a team with a real farm.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 04:52 PM
???

What is this "best talent" that you refer to? The White Sox would have had to have been as bad as the Tigers to have acquired Maybin or Miller. A fact that you have been conveniently ignoring for two days now.
We do it every year. Draftees fall because teams are afraid of their agents and their demands. The Sox don't draft them for that reason. If we would have our system wouldn't be such a ****hole.

Oblong
12-05-2007, 04:57 PM
Rebuilding through the draft isn't done in just the first half of the first round of the draft. The MLB draft is now becoming just a piece of the overall process. The talent overseas and in Latin America is becoming pretty dominant.

If the White Sox truly refuse to deal with Boras because of prior issues then they are only hurting themselves. There's 29 other teams that will and they are only limiting the talent pool for themselves. It's enough of a crap shoot already.

Teams need to learn the value of replacement level players. Overpaing for mediocre veterans when that salary could cover almost an entire draft's signing is not smart. It's better to use that money for the future and get a cheap alternative for the time being who probably won't be much worse. That's not directed at anyone in particular, just a general rule that I wish more teams would follow.

johnr1note
12-05-2007, 05:23 PM
So you wouldn't want Alex Rodriguez on your team? Wow.
If we had drafted the best talent and not worry about their bonus' we might of had the assets to acquire Cabrera.

Read my post again, junior. Its not that I don't want A-Rod on my team. I just can't see paying $30 million a year or more for any player. That will guarantee that we will NEVER be competitive, because the White Sox don't have the bottomless pockets the Yankees and Red Sox have. Pay for A-Rod, and you won't be able to pay for anything else. Again, see what the Texas Rangers were in the A-Rod era.

As for picking the "best talent," we have not been in a position to draft early in the first round in the last 10 years. We picked Borchard at no. 12 in 2000, and that's been about the highest we've picked since. The Tigers are loaded because they sucked for so long, and got early draft picks.

Plus, the draft is a huge gamble. Just scan the first round drafts from year to year. How many of those draftees ever see success? Very few. For example, 2000 first round draftee classmates of Joe Borchard who have had any modicum of success in the bigs include Boof Bonser, Rocco Balldelli, and the one who got away, Chase Utley. But if you want to complain, a lot of teams let Utley go by (including the Tigers and Twin, who drafted ahead of the Sox) as he was drafted 15th.

Rather then complain about the White Sox dealing with Boras, shouldn't we be brow beating Kenny for not having the scouting system in place to know who to draft? I know they've started an overhaul in that department, but we won't see results for years.

Rebuilding through the draft isn't done in just the first half of the first round of the draft. The MLB draft is now becoming just a piece of the overall process. The talent overseas and in Latin America is becoming pretty dominant.

If the White Sox truly refuse to deal with Boras because of prior issues then they are only hurting themselves. There's 29 other teams that will and they are only limiting the talent pool for themselves. It's enough of a crap shoot already.

Teams need to learn the value of replacement level players. Overpaing for mediocre veterans when that salary could cover almost an entire draft's signing is not smart. It's better to use that money for the future and get a cheap alternative for the time being who probably won't be much worse. That's not directed at anyone in particular, just a general rule that I wish more teams would follow.

This is a good point, but its just not the Sox unwilling to deal with Boras, he won't deal with us. There are many teams that are forced by Boras' techniques to forgo drafting a player they wouldn't be able to sign. This isn't just a White Sox issue.

getonbckthr
12-05-2007, 05:28 PM
Rob Bradford from the Boston Herald writes this morning about how the other 29 teams in MLB envy where Boston is right now.

One reason is the draft.......which they are exploiting

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1048908

The way the MLB draft is currently constituted, the Red Sox can win the World Series every year and still have an upper hand on the majority of the teams below them in the selection process. The reason? Agents (or advisors) make it clear to teams throughout the draft order that their clients will only enter professional baseball on certain financial terms.

The trend has left baseballís underprivileged, both talent-wise and financially, passing on talent. Meanwhile, the Red Sox can swoop in and take players they would normally have crossed off their board long before. It is a flaw in the system, but one the Red Sox have expertly taken advantage of.

Bradford was just on WEEI this morning talking about the article and he said one of the prime examples of a team walking away from young talent is the Chicago White Sox. JR's refusal to deal with Scott Boras has hurt the team badly and now with Detroit loading up and Cleveland in good shape the White Sox are in big trouble for the next few years.

Read my post again, junior. Its not that I don't want A-Rod on my team. I just can't see paying $30 million a year or more for any player. That will guarantee that we will NEVER be competitive, because the White Sox don't have the bottomless pockets the Yankees and Red Sox have. Pay for A-Rod, and you won't be able to pay for anything else. Again, see what the Texas Rangers were in the A-Rod era.

As for picking the "best talent," we have not been in a position to draft early in the first round in the last 10 years. We picked Borchard at no. 12 in 2000, and that's been about the highest we've picked since. The Tigers are loaded because they sucked for so long, and got early draft picks.

Plus, the draft is a huge gamble. Just scan the first round drafts from year to year. How many of those draftees ever see success? Very few. For example, 2000 first round draftee classmates of Joe Borchard who have had any modicum of success in the bigs include Boof Bonser, Rocco Balldelli, and the one who got away, Chase Utley. But if you want to complain, a lot of teams let Utley go by (including the Tigers and Twin, who drafted ahead of the Sox) as he was drafted 15th.

Rather then complain about the White Sox dealing with Boras, shouldn't we be brow beating Kenny for not having the scouting system in place to know who to draft? I know they've started an overhaul in that department, but we won't see results for years.



This is a good point, but its just not the Sox unwilling to deal with Boras, he won't deal with us. There are many teams that are forced by Boras' techniques to forgo drafting a player they wouldn't be able to sign. This isn't just a White Sox issue.
Considering this thread was started to talk about how Boston manages to have guys slip to them I would assume, since Boston has been more successful over the last decade, that those guys slipped past the Sox as well, SLAPPY.

jabrch
12-05-2007, 06:23 PM
And the Tigers have been doing it better than anyone these last few years.

They sucked for most of the past few years. That's how they get guys like Verlander, Miller and Maybin. Finish amongst the 10 worst teams in baseball, and you get rewarded. Last year they paid sick money that no teams were willing to pay for a guy who is just out of highschool and is a long way from the majors, and is not even close to a guarantee.

If the Sox averaged abouot 65 wins a season over 8 years like Detroit did, our farm would be much better. We have ONE bad season and our fans cry to no end....just imagine if we were as crappy as the Tigers have been for 10 years between 1992 and 2005...

Oblong
12-05-2007, 06:53 PM
They sucked for most of the past few years. That's how they get guys like Verlander, Miller and Maybin. Finish amongst the 10 worst teams in baseball, and you get rewarded. Last year they paid sick money that no teams were willing to pay for a guy who is just out of highschool and is a long way from the majors, and is not even close to a guarantee.

If the Sox averaged abouot 65 wins a season over 8 years like Detroit did, our farm would be much better. We have ONE bad season and our fans cry to no end....just imagine if we were as crappy as the Tigers have been for 10 years between 1992 and 2005...

A farm system isn't just built in the first round or by being bad. You have to be smart about it too. You don't just fall into it. The Tigers drafts from the 80s through 2004 were putrid. What does record have to do with it?

The prospects traded for Sheffield and Cabrera/Willis, outside of Maybin/Miller were all drafted in later rounds when other teams had the chance to take them. Curtis Granderson was taken in the third round. Zumaya in the 11th.

If the Sox averaged 65 wins a season for 8 years what would that change about the farm system? Guys drafted 8 years ago are either in the majors or going nowhere.

SoxSpeed22
12-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Signability picks have been all the rage in the draft. But it isn't the most important thing. KW has definitely improved in trading prospects for utility players and other prospects.
He trades Jeff Bajenaru (sp?) for Alex Cintron and Baj never made it, even though Cintron was put in bad spots last year. Trades Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens, and Escobar resides in the DL while Owens has a chance to make the team. Trades Aaron Cunningham for Danny Richar, who is now our second baseman, even though you would like to see him do better.
You have to integrate drafting talent with foreign scouting and trading. That all centers on talent evaluation. Something that was addressed last year when the scouting personnel was changed.

rdivaldi
12-05-2007, 07:49 PM
We do it every year. Draftees fall because teams are afraid of their agents and their demands. The Sox don't draft them for that reason. If we would have our system wouldn't be such a ****hole.

Really? Who are these draftees? I'm dying to read the list.

rdivaldi
12-05-2007, 07:52 PM
I mean, we tout Gio and Egbert, those 2 wouldn't crack the top 5 on a team with a real farm.

:thud:

Wow! Gio is considered to be one of the top left handed pitchers in the minors.

Domeshot17
12-05-2007, 07:54 PM
:thud:

Wow! Gio is considered to be one of the top left handed pitchers in the minors.

He was not even a 5* prospect in the latest rankings posted here. Is there THAT FEW LEFTIES that a double a 4* spec is one of the best?

BadBobbyJenks
12-05-2007, 10:46 PM
So you want to increase the competitive disadvantage of small market teams?


what? i think the rules in place hurt small market teams, its the yanks, sox mets etc. getting sandwich picks

jabrch
12-05-2007, 10:57 PM
I mean, we tout Gio and Egbert, those 2 wouldn't crack the top 5 on a team with a real farm.

That's nothing short of ignorant. Gio Gonzalez is amongst the top ranked LHP in all of minor league baseball.

johnr1note
12-06-2007, 07:41 AM
Considering this thread was started to talk about how Boston manages to have guys slip to them I would assume, since Boston has been more successful over the last decade, that those guys slipped past the Sox as well, SLAPPY.

Which, of course, plays to the essence of my original post, the reason they "slipped past" is we don't have the assets to sign them.

FloridaTigers
12-06-2007, 09:31 PM
The Tigers aren't empty, farm wise. Porcello is now the top prospect in the system. They have some prospects with good potential in Danny Worth, Cale Iorg, Michael Holliam, Charles Furbush, ect. Not on the level of Miller or Maybin, but to say the Tigers sold the farm is too much.

And like the Sox, the Tigers have shown they'll draft the best avaliable, regardless of price and then sign them. With that philosophy, the farm system should be back soon.

Mohoney
12-07-2007, 12:23 AM
Maybe if we made better picks then Anderson-Broadway-Mcculloch-Sweeney-Liotta etc. in the top rounds we would have a minor league system. We didn't, and our system is pathetic. We have 1 hitter who projects to be anything, 1 low minors arm who can be an ace, and a bunch of guys who look like mid rotation to long relievers. I mean, we tout Gio and Egbert, those 2 wouldn't crack the top 5 on a team with a real farm.

While I do agree with your overall point that recent draft results have been bad, I do have to offer that Gio might crack the top 5 list on quite a few teams out there.

The guy was traded to acquire Jim Thome, traded to acquire Freddy Garcia, and floated around in rumors to acquire Miguel Cabrera. I would consider that "highly sought after".

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 12:54 AM
While I do agree with your overall point that recent draft results have been bad, I do have to offer that Gio might crack the top 5 list on quite a few teams out there.

The guy was traded to acquire Jim Thome, traded to acquire Freddy Garcia, and floated around in rumors to acquire Miguel Cabrera. I would consider that "highly sought after".

Im not saying hes bad, and maybe I overstated saying he would be on the outside, but we act like Gio is this STUD prospect. If that was the case you would have to say Gio Fields is almost equal to Maybin and Miller. But the truth is Gio is over valued by us. I forget who did it a while ago, posted the latest rankings of all our guys and then it got taken down for posting the ENTIRE ARTICLE. But it basically said the only true top flight prospect we have is DLS. Then on that next good tier, the kind who may make an all star game or, never will win an mvp or cy, isn't a perrenial all star was Fields and Gio. Then we had our next tier of average talent with Broadway Poreda and company. I guess I wonder how Gio can be this top flight, cant miss, Top Ranked Lefties in the game.

In 2007 baseball america ranked him the 72nd best prospect in the game. Thats good, but hardly of the top ranked prospects. Baseball Prospectus left him off their top 100. Rotoworld has him 73rd. Like I said its not to say he sucks, I should not have to put him in the same league as Egbert, but to say he is this top flight prospect is about as bad of an overstatement as saying hes a B spec like Egbert.

Almost all the scouting on him is the same too
However, because of his smallish build and his lack of efficiency on the mound, there's also some question about whether he'll be able to hold up as a starter. Gonzalez has No. 2-starter upside, but he seems like even more of a long shot than most pitching prospects to reach his full potential.


Hes not a guy who is going to get you a Miguel Cabrera or another all star slugger. Hes a guy who has to be packaged with another 2 or 3 just like him to make that trade. To say he is a top left handed prospect is putting him in the light of an Andrew Miller which he just is not.

Mohoney
12-07-2007, 01:07 AM
Hes not a guy who is going to get you a Miguel Cabrera or another all star slugger. Hes a guy who has to be packaged with another 2 or 3 just like him to make that trade. To say he is a top left handed prospect is putting him in the light of an Andrew Miller which he just is not.

He might have been comparable to Miller, and I'll insist it to the day I die that if we had a Saltalamacchia-type catching prospect, we could have trumped Detroit's offer.

In Rabelo, Florida didn't get quite as much value in the catching department as they would have liked, but they did get 4 pitchers, plus Maybin, and I'm guessing that a little of the sting of that is taken out.

rdivaldi
12-07-2007, 09:51 AM
In 2007 baseball america ranked him the 72nd best prospect in the game. Thats good, but hardly of the top ranked prospects. Baseball Prospectus left him off their top 100. Rotoworld has him 73rd.

But you're completely ignoring the fact that those rankings reflect Gio somewhat struggling in AA in 2006 as a 20 year old. Now that he's shown that he can dominate that level (at 21) he's going to shoot up the charts.

Minor league baseball.com has him rated at #24 going into 2008. Linky (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/news/top50/y2008/profile.jsp?t=p_top&pid=451594)