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View Full Version : Rumor: Tigers (maybe Sox?) close to aquiring Cabrera and Willis


Sockinchisox
12-04-2007, 05:39 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/marlinsblog/entries/2007/12/04/white_sox_closing_in_on_cabrer.html


OMG.

WizardsofOzzie
12-04-2007, 05:41 PM
Itís not clear who the Marlins would get in return, but signs point to third baseman Josh Fields, who turns 25 on Dec. 14. Fields hit 23 homers and had 67 RBI while batting .244. Florida also could get pitcher Geo Gonzalez and either right-hander John Danks or Gavin Floyd.

As strapped as we are for pitching I don't like the idea of giving up Danks and Gio. Now if it's Fields and Floyd I'm in but I don't think Florida is that desperate

veeter
12-04-2007, 05:42 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/marlinsblog/entries/2007/12/04/white_sox_closing_in_on_cabrer.html


OMG.Yes, OMG

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 05:42 PM
As cool as this is and its very cool

I will wait for someone who can spell Gio's name right or knows Danks is a lefty.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 05:42 PM
Who is "Geo Gonzalez?"

Lip Man 1
12-04-2007, 05:43 PM
Hell I'll give them Floyd, Sisco, Massett, Aardsma even old MacDougal. Whoever they want...but I'd like to keep Gio and Danks if at all possible.

Lip

oeo
12-04-2007, 05:43 PM
:o:

Kind of speechless right now...let's see what happens.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 05:44 PM
I really would be upset if we trade away Danks.

WizardsofOzzie
12-04-2007, 05:44 PM
Who is "Geo Gonzalez?"
I didn't notice that :rolling: Maybe we are sending a Geo Metro to the Marlins along with Gio

the1tab
12-04-2007, 05:46 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and withhold excitement until I hear Bruuuuuce LeVineLine tell me it's a real deal.

The Florida paper's quote of Ozzie is a pretty bold statement though... either he's making like Belichek on Ed Reed or there's something going....

:dtroll:

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 05:46 PM
Hopefully we have someone named Geo Gonzalez in our system, I'd gladly give him insted of Gio.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 05:46 PM
It's not a legit rumor until Rockabilly or Otis tell us it is.

WizardsofOzzie
12-04-2007, 05:47 PM
It's not a legit rumor until Rockabilly or Otis tell us it is.
Or until someone hears KW on his cell phone at the airport

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 05:48 PM
Hell I'll give them Floyd, Sisco, Massett, Aardsma even old MacDougal. Whoever they want...but I'd like to keep Gio and Danks if at all possible.

Lip

Yes. Those, in my opinion, are THE BEST on that list. I also really like Fields. However, you did not mention him.

Dan Mega
12-04-2007, 05:49 PM
Hey Rockibilly actually got something other than a lucky guess right.

Anyway, I think Gio and Danks is too much. I'd Fields to stay too if possible. How about Crede and Uribe? :cool:

salty99
12-04-2007, 05:49 PM
Then next offseason we can trade jerry owens, sweeney, and anderson for Gio. ha

salty99
12-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Yes. Those, in my opinion, are THE BEST on that list. I also really like Fields. However, you did not mention him.


Well there's no reason to keep Fields if Cabrera is here.

oeo
12-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Hell I'll give them Floyd, Sisco, Massett, Aardsma even old MacDougal. Whoever they want...but I'd like to keep Gio and Danks if at all possible.

Lip

I guess you don't want Miguel Cabrera then.

Here's what I'm thinking: you acquire Cabrera, put him in LF and keep Crede. Trade Konerko for pitching help and a 1B (maybe that rumored Arizona deal), and that's a much improved team.

So the rotation would then look like:
Buehrle
Vazquez
Contreras
Owings
Floyd

Which isn't anything to write home about, but either is the version with Danks.

the1tab
12-04-2007, 05:50 PM
I really would be upset if we trade away Danks.

This envokes in me a similar response to the one received by the reporter who asked the GM in Detroit about the future of Brandon Inge the day they acquired Pudge Rodriguez.

WHAT??

John Danks is a nice, young pitcher. He has decent stuff and might end up in the class of Ted Lilly - to - Barry Zito (non-Cy Young season Zito).

Miguel Cabrera is a 24 year old World Series champion with a bat that would remind people of Frank Thomas' young days. He's a machine. He would be Albert Belle without the whole "chasing kids w/ a bat on Halloween" off the field stuff.

If Florida wants Gio, Danks, Kenny Williams' son, whoever... make the deal. This kid's gonna be a once-per-20 years player.

:gulp:

Tekijawa
12-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Who is "Geo Gonzalez?"

Kenny fell for this one awhile ago, when he thought he aquired a pitcher but it was a 32 year old AA outfielder or something... I forget what trade it was... I like the idea of trading this GEO Gonzales!

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Hell I'll give them Floyd, Sisco, Massett, Aardsma even old MacDougal. Whoever they want...but I'd like to keep Gio and Danks if at all possible.

Lip

I'll be fine if we trade one of the two lefties, but both would disappoint me as they seemed to have real potential for this team in the future.

Rockabilly
12-04-2007, 05:52 PM
It's not a legit rumor until Rockabilly or Otis tell us it is.

Why the hell are you putting me in the same sentence as Otis.. I gave you the Quentin deal before anyone else knew about...

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Well there's no reason to keep Fields if Cabrera is here.

Good point! :D:

SoxGirl4Life
12-04-2007, 05:53 PM
You know.. this might have some legs.
Phil Rogers actually has a blurb on it in the Trib. Of course, in his version, the Sox will still suck and their depleted farm system will be worse.. but you how he likes to have the scoop.

Rockabilly
12-04-2007, 05:53 PM
As for this deal I would love to get Cabrera on the Sox and I dont care what prospects we have to give up.. I will worried about next year after this up coming season..

I want to win it all again

munchman33
12-04-2007, 05:54 PM
Well this is certainly very unexpected news.

Very welcome news as well. Go Kenny. Get it done. :bandance:

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 05:55 PM
Who is Gio/Geo Gonzalez? He is a prospect. Not giving him up is as laughable as the Bulls not willing to move Luol Deng. What guarentee is Danks. Sure he appears to have a bright future but Cabrera is an elite, Arod/Pujols type talent who has not yet reached the prime of career. This is the Chicago White Sox standing as of December 4th, 2007. We are a team who either makes a huge push to win now or go completely into a rebuilding mode.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 05:57 PM
At the very least, it's great to hear some new information pop up.

I'm sure KW has to have some starting pitching plans if this is going to happen.

Rockabilly
12-04-2007, 06:00 PM
according to MLB TV they're saying that the Tigers are close to getting Cabrera & Willis they reported this just a few mins ago...

beckett21
12-04-2007, 06:00 PM
I for one really hope this happens.

I don't care what the Sox have to give up. Hopefully people (i.e. Sox fans) realize that this kid is one of the best pure hitters in the game today, and he is only 24. He has also proven himself on the big stage, as a 20 year old rook no less.

My biggest concern would be locking him up for the long haul, since he is eligible for FA in 2 years. We would have to be willing and able to sign him to a long-term deal. But he is a bona fide superstar.

While they are at it, why not get Dontrelle thrown in as well. They can have Fields, Gio, Danks, etc., etc.. Name the price.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 06:01 PM
If this does happen hopefully Ozzie could then convince Cabrera to sick around with an extention after next year.

beckett21
12-04-2007, 06:02 PM
according to MLB TV they're saying that the Tigers are close to getting Cabrera & Willis they reported this just a few mins ago...

The Tigers definitely have more to offer. This disturbs me.

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:03 PM
The Tigers definitely have more to offer. This disturbs me.

Dang it!!! :angry::angry::angry::whiner::whiner::whiner:

chitown13
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
according to MLB TV they're saying that the Tigers are close to getting Cabrera & Willis they reported this just a few mins ago...

That is an old rumor (well old for today). They said that the marlins were using the tigers to push up the price

http://blog.mlive.com/tigersinsider/2007/12/update_on_the_cabrerawillis_fo.html

oeo
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
The Tigers definitely have more to offer. This disturbs me.

Kenny should just lock Dombrowski in a closet.

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
If this does happen hopefully Ozzie could then convince Cabrera to sick around with an extention after next year.

Ozzie could very well do that.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
MLB trade rumors has a post up now.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 06:04 PM
according to MLB TV they're saying that the Tigers are close to getting Cabrera & Willis they reported this just a few mins ago...

If the Tigers steal this one from us I will go nuts.

munchman33
12-04-2007, 06:05 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317133&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Are we going to have to wait until "White Sox Wednesday?"

StepsInSC
12-04-2007, 06:06 PM
MLB.com is reporting that the Tigers are set to acquire Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins for Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four more prospects.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227111

munchman33
12-04-2007, 06:06 PM
Are we going to have to wait until "White Sox Wednesday?"

I hope not. The Tigers will probably have him by then.

PKalltheway
12-04-2007, 06:07 PM
Oooh I really hope this happens!:praying:

EDIT: NOOO!!! I didn't see that the Tigers were close to getting him!

munchman33
12-04-2007, 06:07 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227111


:angry:

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:07 PM
MLB trade rumors has a post up now.
Ya I sent them the link.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:08 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227111
Crap! That's minutes ago.

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:08 PM
Tigers most likely WILL get him. Kenny is napping now. :angry::angry::angry::whiner::whiner::whiner:

Wimpy
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Cabrera could not play LF unless he lost all that weight he put on last year. He was lazy and bad at 3B last year. Against the Cubs the last week of the season he gave up on a foul pop up because he thought it was going into the stands, yet it landed 10 feet from the stands. That being said I want this to happen immediately. He is truly one of the elite sluggers in the game today.

ShoelessJoeS
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Are we going to have to wait until "White Sox Wednesday?"I can wait one more day to acquire MC!!!

EDIT: ****

munchman33
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Tigers WILL get him. Kenny is napping now. :angry::angry::angry::whiner::whiner::whiner:

"The Tigers swooped into the sweepstakes for Cabrera and Willis on Tuesday and put together a package of players that the Marlins felt too tempting to pass up"


This is more a function of having a crappy farm system than anything. Our entire system couldn't compete with what the Tigers are giving them.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Crap! That's minutes ago.

Yeah, and their source was updated at 5:55 PM EST.

Furthermore, their source says:

White Sox eyeing Andruw Jones

whitesoxfan
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
If the Tigers steal this one from us I will go nuts.

Actually, it sounds like we would be the ones stealing him from Detroit. Not the other way around.

Hopefully Kenny gets this done ASAP. To borrow a line from Jim Rome, Miguel Cabrera is absolutely phenomenal.

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Cabrera could not play LF unless he lost all that weight he put on last year. He was lazy and bad at 3B last year. Against the Cubs the last week of the season he gave up on a foul pop up because he thought it was going into the stands, yet it landed 10 feet from the stands. That being said I want this to happen immediately. He is truly one of the elite sluggers in the game today.

I read he lost 15 pounds from last season.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 06:10 PM
Come on Kenny, outbid them....:praying:

You got robbed once this off season, don't let it happen again.

StepsInSC
12-04-2007, 06:10 PM
Tigers most likely WILL get him. Kenny is napping now. :angry::angry::angry::whiner::whiner::whiner:

I don't think our entire system could match the Andrew Miller/Maybin + 4 combo

DSpivack
12-04-2007, 06:11 PM
Come on Kenny, outbid them....:praying:

You got robbed once this off season, don't let it happen again.

My worry is if we can outbid them. Do we have prospects as good as Maybin or Miller? Perhaps Fields and Danks are somewhat comparable, but Detroit has a deeper farm system.

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 06:12 PM
If the Tigers Add Willis AND Cabrera, we might as well not even show up for 2008, we are already the fighting to be the fourth team in the division, barely keeping our heads above water and the Royals. This would all but completely kill us.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-04-2007, 06:13 PM
Rotoworld Update:

While the Tigers may have a deal about wrapped up, the White Sox also made a strong push to acquire Miguel Cabrera this afternoon, offering Josh Fields, Gio Gonzalez and either John Danks or Gavin Floyd.

Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post thinks that deal is going to happen, while MLB.com is reporting that Cabrera is likely Detroit bound. It's hard to trust a report that rather equates Danks with Floyd. Danks would be the most valuable property the White Sox have to offer, while Floyd just doesn't have a lot of trade value left.

Wimpy
12-04-2007, 06:13 PM
If the Tigers get him and Willis, and the Twins get a boatload of talent for Santana the AL central is going to be so tough next year and beyond. We may have quite a few 4th place finishes in the works.

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 06:13 PM
ESPN is reporting its done with physicals Willis and Cabrera to the Tigers

DeadMoney
12-04-2007, 06:14 PM
Come on Kenny, outbid them....:praying:

You got robbed once this off season, don't let it happen again.

If he doesn't, the Sox are in deep **** in trying to win the division.

I mean Cabrera AND Willis to the Tigers. That rotation is sick (Verlander, Bonderman, Willis, Rogers, and Robertson - wow), and that line-up becomes dangerous with that deal. Big trouble.

oeo
12-04-2007, 06:14 PM
Detroit is losing a lot. And they're an old team, too.

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:15 PM
ESPN is reporting its done with physicals Willis and Cabrera to the Tigers
Where i'm on their site now?

goon
12-04-2007, 06:15 PM
ESPN is reporting its done with physicals Willis and Cabrera to the Tigers

I just **** my pants.

StepsInSC
12-04-2007, 06:15 PM
ESPN Radio reporting it.

If Willis pitches like he did for all of last year, this may help us.

DSpivack
12-04-2007, 06:16 PM
Where i'm on their site now?

I'm assuming he means ESPN itself, not the website.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:17 PM
With the rotation the Sox have now, how can they compete with this?
I can't imagine KW could even compile a competitive rotation to match that now, and it doesn't look like that's his priority anyway.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 06:17 PM
****ing Tigers. First they get Renteria out of nowhere (not so bad since we got Cabrera). Then the Angels steal Hunter with a ridiculous deal, and now the Tigers are going to get Cabrera and Willis. :angry:

goon
12-04-2007, 06:18 PM
ESPN Radio reporting it.

If Willis pitches like he did for all of last year, this may help us.

Besides maybin and miller, I'm very curious who else Detroit is giving up. Gio, Danks, Fields and Floyd for Cabrera alone seems like a pretty good deal, better than Maybin and Miller with a few other for Cabrera AND Willis.

This ****ing sucks if it's true.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:19 PM
The bottom of the screen on ESPN says "Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell Willis expected to be traded to Detroit Tigers"
Gammons was just talking about it like it was done.

Rockabilly
12-04-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm assuming he means ESPN itself, not the website.


If the Sox wasn't close to getting Cabrera this Fla writer should be fire... He also should check his facts about spelling Gio name wrong and calling Danks a right hander...

Seeing Cabrera going to Detroit is going to sting alot

beckett21
12-04-2007, 06:19 PM
It's like getting kicked in the groin after being punched in the gut.

Wimpy
12-04-2007, 06:19 PM
Damn. Why did I even get my hopes up. And someone said they would't want to give up Gio. That is laughable now.

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:20 PM
The bottom of the screen on ESPN says "Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell Willis expected to be traded to Detroit Tigers"
Gammons was just talking about it like it was done.

Not offical, right???!!!
:(:

goon
12-04-2007, 06:20 PM
****.

ShoelessJoeS
12-04-2007, 06:21 PM
It's like getting kicked in the groin after being punched in the gut.That pretty much sums it up.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:21 PM
Not offical, right???!!!
:(:
I guess it hasn't been officially announced, but they said, "and to recap... Cabrera and Willis to the Tigers in an 8 player deal"

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 06:22 PM
Well I don't see how this day can get worse. Not only to the Tigers come out of nowhere and get these 2, and now we're expected 5 inches of snow:angry:.

goon
12-04-2007, 06:23 PM
C'mon... Andruw Jones?

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 06:23 PM
Not offical, right???!!!
:(:

it is unless a physical is failed


We just can't compete. Lets face it, everything from the 2005 world series was undone last year.

To land a top free agent they won't look at us as an ideal win destination. We will need to either overpay or give long deals. We have a GM and an Owner who already hate this market, so that won't happen.

With trades we just don't have much to deal. We have an inconsistent when healthy 3b coming off back surgery, we have 1 good hitting prospect, 2 good pitchers, some crapshoot guys.

At this point we should just blow it up and look to 2009-2010.

I can handle losing out on Cabrera, but when he AND willis go to DETROIT, its over.

SoxSpeed22
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
Damn Detroit and their actual talent they have to offer. :angry:
On a side-note, I sure as hell hope that Miller isn't being kept in our leagues.

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
C'mon... Andruw Jones?
40 hrs 100 RBIs GG defense, ya what a horrible idea.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317414&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

The deal was all but finalized as of late afternoon at the Winter Meetings.

goon
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
40 hrs 100 RBIs GG defense, ya what a horrible idea.

Who said it was?

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 06:25 PM
This is becoming a really crappy offseason, losing out on both Hunter and Cabrera...

goon
12-04-2007, 06:26 PM
This is becoming a really crappy offseason, losing out on both Hunter and Cabrera...

Well, supposedly the Sox are talking to Jones right now. Hopefully they can get a deal worked out. That would be nice.

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:26 PM
Who said it was?
I guess I interpreted your post wrong, sorry.

The Milkman
12-04-2007, 06:26 PM
Cue tomorrow's annoying and unfortunately true Marriotti column...

cws05champ
12-04-2007, 06:27 PM
Damn...

Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Sheffield, Ordonez, Pudge, C. Guillen, Renteria

That sucks!!!!!!

With:
Verlander, Rogers, Willis, Bonderman, Robertson

That sucks!!!!!!

whitesoxfan
12-04-2007, 06:27 PM
This is becoming a really crappy offseason, losing out on both Hunter and Cabrera...

I don't care about losing out on Hunter. This one would definitely hurt though.

Jjav829
12-04-2007, 06:28 PM
Thankfully I read rotoworld before coming on here, or else I would have gone nuts after seeing the title of this thread.

Let's hope that Kenny has one last run left in him. Regardless of how many prospects the Tigers are giving up, them adding Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis is awful news for us.

If nothing else, maybe KW's last minute bid was simply to drive up the price the Tigers had to pay.

delben91
12-04-2007, 06:28 PM
it is unless a physical is failed


We just can't compete. Lets face it, everything from the 2005 world series was undone last year.

To land a top free agent they won't look at us as an ideal win destination. We will need to either overpay or give long deals. We have a GM and an Owner who already hate this market, so that won't happen.

With trades we just don't have much to deal. We have an inconsistent when healthy 3b coming off back surgery, we have 1 good hitting prospect, 2 good pitchers, some crapshoot guys.

At this point we should just blow it up and look to 2009-2010.

I can handle losing out on Cabrera, but when he AND willis go to DETROIT, its over.

Hell, I say just disband the team, just let the minor leaguers play. Tell the fans to just come back around 2014. Blow up the Cell. JR can retire, get rid of the rest of the organization. Heck, sell off the uniforms and logo to the Cubs while we're at it.

The team is just doomed. Doomed I tell you. I only ask that they keep the churro carts around. Anyone want some season tickets? This team is going to finish dead last not just in the central, but all of MLB for the forseeable future.

(Not trying to pick on you Domeshot, but after some of those posts, I figured I'd go all out)

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 06:29 PM
Well, supposedly the Sox are talking to Jones right now. Hopefully they can get a deal worked out. That would be nice.
But what worries me is can he return to form?

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:30 PM
Gammons has it as 6 players for just Cabrera. Throw in Jenks in a last ditched effort.

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:31 PM
ESPN is confirming it on TV.

Tekijawa
12-04-2007, 06:31 PM
What are we on now? Plan 2M by my calculations!

gr8mexico
12-04-2007, 06:31 PM
THIS SUCKS!!!!!:whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner:

KRS1
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Well, it looks like it is about done as can be, which ****ing sucks.

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Damn...

Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Sheffield, Ordonez, Pudge, C. Guillen, Renteria

That sucks!!!!!!

With:
Verlander, Rogers, Willis, Bonderman, Robertson

That sucks!!!!!!

Hello? You Forgot Inge?

Madvora
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Does Florida still have Joe Borchard? That can be our consolation prize.
I'll bet their GM isn't dumb enough to call him "untouchable."

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Hell, I say just disband the team, just let the minor leaguers play. Tell the fans to just come back around 2014. Blow up the Cell. JR can retire, get rid of the rest of the organization. Heck, sell off the uniforms and logo to the Cubs while we're at it.

The team is just doomed. Doomed I tell you. I only ask that they keep the churro carts around. Anyone want some season tickets? This team is going to finish dead last not just in the central, but all of MLB for the forseeable future.

(Not trying to pick on you Domeshot, but after some of those posts, I figured I'd go all out)


Its frusteration for sure on many levels. But we were already looking at a real struggle to compete anyway. Now one of the top 2 teams just got MUCH MUCH BETTER. What do you really expect???

We don't draft or develop well, so we don't have the prospects to compete for the big guns, we don't spend big in FA. Its like we are losing from every angle.

That said, my season tickets won't get cancelled

btrain929
12-04-2007, 06:32 PM
If true, this absolutely blows. The ONLY slight positive that can come from it is that we'd probably make a knee-jerk reaction like Linebrink after Hunter signed by getting Andruw Jones instead of Miggy Cab. Now, Andruw should give us the same power numbers of Miggy (obviously not the average). But, also, Andruw plays CF, our biggest weak spot on the field, as supposed to Miggy for 3B or LF where we have decent starting options (of course he'd be an upgrade, but those positions arent our biggest needs). Right now if we go into the season with Fields/Quentin at 3B/LF, it wouldn't be that bad. And it only took money to get Andruw, as supposed to 4 good prospects. I don't know, I'm just hoping it's not true since so many deals were supposed to be "close" (Bedard to Mets, Johan to Yanks). I'm hoping this is another situation like that.

DSpivack
12-04-2007, 06:33 PM
Dombrowski sure like his former Marlins.

drewcifer
12-04-2007, 06:33 PM
ESPN is confirming it on TV.

Yeah, just saw it too. Massive haul for the Kitties.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-04-2007, 06:33 PM
See you in '09.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 06:33 PM
Gammons has it as 6 players for just Cabrera. Throw in Jenks in a last ditched effort.
Is that 6 Tigers or White Sox for just Cabrera? If the Tigers, then we can breath a sigh of relief that Willis was not included.

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 06:34 PM
Is that 6 Tigers or White Sox for just Cabrera? If the Tigers, then we can breath a sigh of relief that Willis was not included.
Tigers. I was going from the ESPN blog. They have since edited it to include Willis.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-04-2007, 06:35 PM
Gammons has it as 6 players for just Cabrera. Throw in Jenks in a last ditched effort.

If true, you can't say that Williams did not try - sounds like he threw everything but the kitchen sink at them.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 06:37 PM
If true, this absolutely blows. The ONLY slight positive that can come from it is that we'd probably make a knee-jerk reaction like Linebrink after Hunter signed by getting Andruw Jones instead of Miggy Cab. Now, Andruw should give us the same power numbers of Miggy (obviously not the average). But, also, Andruw plays CF, our biggest weak spot on the field, as supposed to Miggy for 3B or LF where we have decent starting options (of course he'd be an upgrade, but those positions arent our biggest needs). Right now if we go into the season with Fields/Quentin at 3B/LF, it wouldn't be that bad. And it only took money to get Andruw, as supposed to 4 good prospects. I don't know, I'm just hoping it's not true since so many deals were supposed to be "close" (Bedard to Mets, Johan to Yanks). I'm hoping this is another situation like that.
Look, you're post makes too much sense and is completely spot-on.







Knock it off, we're trying to freak out over something that was not on our radar three days ago.

delben91
12-04-2007, 06:37 PM
If true, you can't say that Williams did not try - sounds like he threw everything but the kitchen sink at them.

Yeah, the Tigers gave them the whole kitchen with the in-ground pool :tongue:

VenturaFan23
12-04-2007, 06:38 PM
It's like getting kicked in the groin after being punched in the gut.

Couldn't have said it better myself :angry:

MCHSoxFan
12-04-2007, 06:39 PM
I don't care about losing out on Hunter. This one would definitely hurt though.

Yep. :(:

ND_Sox_Fan
12-04-2007, 06:40 PM
Kind of feel like the Sox are in the same position as the Blue Jays about right now ...

ChiSoxIn06
12-04-2007, 06:41 PM
what the hell happened? i was on my way home from work and the score was reporting that the sox were on the verge of getting cabrera for fields, gio and danks and then i get home and the tigers are now the team getting him? did kenny get blind sighted ****ing again? if so this is making the white sox look real ****ing bad.

ChiSoxIn06
12-04-2007, 06:44 PM
Kind of feel like the Sox are in the same position as the Blue Jays about right now ...

i was thinking this exact same thing? how in the hell are the sox (the biggest market team in the central) getting pushed around by these other smaller markets?

DSpivack
12-04-2007, 06:45 PM
i was thinking this exact same thing? how in the hell are the sox (the biggest market team in the central) getting pushed around by these other smaller markets?

Pushed around? Blindsighted? You could make up something like that, or it could be that we just didn't have the horses to deal that others did.

KRS1
12-04-2007, 06:46 PM
Well, no time to drag our feet. Time for Kenny to get out there and make a big splash to keep up morale.

Soxfest
12-04-2007, 06:48 PM
KW get some scraps now from someone and tell us it was plan 99Z because that is where you are today! :angry:

sullythered
12-04-2007, 06:50 PM
Pushed around? Blindsighted? You could make up something like that, or it could be that we just didn't have the horses to deal that others did.
You got it. If we want a splash, it's gonna have to be free agency. We just don't have the prospects for huge trades.

beckett21
12-04-2007, 06:52 PM
Well, no time to drag our feet. Time for Kenny to get out there and make a big splash to keep up morale.

No rush, but I'd settle for Jason Bay and Ian Snell as a consolation prize. I don't honestly think the Pirates are shopping Snell, but sounds like Bay can be had. Couldn't hurt to ask about Snell at the same time.

I'd also be okay with an Andruw Jones signing, though not nearly as excited as I would have been for Cabrera.

Hopefully Kenny has something up his sleeve, but I wouldn't just want a reactionary move either.

bestkosher
12-04-2007, 06:53 PM
What I do not get is that the Marlins are essentially getting six minor leaguers. The two big names the tigers are offering have barely sniffed the majors and shown any auccess. Fields and Danks are by far to more attractive pieces. Well Danks maybe a wash with the starter the Tigers are offering but Fields has MLB expereince and can fit the position that the trade vacates for the Marlins

slowlearner
12-04-2007, 06:55 PM
Detroit gave up a ton. It's quite the haul getting Cabrera and Willis, but the kitties just eviscerated their farm system. One way or another, it will probably catch up with them in two or three years.

But, in the meantime, this is gonna suck.

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 06:59 PM
What I do not get is that the Marlins are essentially getting six minor leaguers. The two big names the tigers are offering have barely sniffed the majors and shown any auccess. Fields and Danks are by far to more attractive pieces. Well Danks maybe a wash with the starter the Tigers are offering but Fields has MLB expereince and can fit the position that the trade vacates for the Marlins

Is this a joke

Google Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller, 2 of the top prospects in the game.

Miller>>>>>>>>>Danks and I love Danks

Maybin>>>Fields.

Then figure the other 4 specs most likely trump the rest of our offer because our farm is thin

oeo
12-04-2007, 07:00 PM
Detroit gave up a ton. It's quite the haul getting Cabrera and Willis, but the kitties just eviscerated their farm system. One way or another, it will probably catch up with them in two or three years.

Don't tell that to anyone around here (especially Domeshot). The Tigers are about to start their 8-peat.

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 07:03 PM
Don't tell that to anyone around here (especially Domeshot). The Tigers are about to start their 8-peat.

Keeping living in your fantasy land that the tigers have no clue how to draft. Just because they play in detroit and in the central doesn't mean we have to hate on them.

Come on OEO, now tell me the Twins draft poor too right, or the Indians aren't in good shape.

The tigers come out with a lot of value in the draft because they are willing to spend. Teams will pass on high ceiling guys with big price tags all the time in the draft, and the tigers have been willing to pay them. Andrew Miller-Maybin-Porcello, they are guys who all fell because of the $$$$.

What have we come out of a draft with recently? I admit, I envy the Tigers ability to find value in drafts.

cws05champ
12-04-2007, 07:06 PM
Keeping living in your fantasy land that the tigers have no clue how to draft. Just because they play in detroit and in the central doesn't mean we have to hate on them.

Come on OEO, now tell me the Twins draft poor too right, or the Indians aren't in good shape.

The tigers come out with a lot of value in the draft because they are willing to spend. Teams will pass on high ceiling guys with big price tags all the time in the draft, and the tigers have been willing to pay them. Andrew Miller-Maybin-Porcello, they are guys who all fell because of the $$$$.

What have we come out of a draft with recently? I admit, I envy the Tigers ability to find value in drafts.

It also helps to have very high draft picks for a few years straight...athough Porcello fell to late 1st round this past year.

oeo
12-04-2007, 07:09 PM
Keeping living in your fantasy land that the tigers have no clue how to draft. Just because they play in detroit and in the central doesn't mean we have to hate on them.

When did I say they have no clue how to draft?

You, OTOH, continue to kiss Dave Dombrowski's ass, would you?

Come on OEO, now tell me the Twins draft poor too right, or the Indians aren't in good shape.No, both of those teams are actually in great shape; the Royals too. The Sox are going in the opposite direction, and the Tigers soon will be.

The tigers come out with a lot of value in the draft because they are willing to spend. Teams will pass on high ceiling guys with big price tags all the time in the draft, and the tigers have been willing to pay them. Andrew Miller-Maybin-Porcello, they are guys who all fell because of the $$$$.Money is a risk. That's what the Tigers do, they take risks. Fortunately for them, it's worked out lately...what happens if it doesn't?

And they don't even do it out of the draft. Nearly that whole 2006 lineup was 'risky business.'

What have we come out of a draft with recently? I admit, I envy the Tigers ability to find value in drafts.In the last couple years? Nothing. Before that, All Stars such as Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Aaron Rowand, etc. See how quickly our farm turned to crap? Now, what happens when Dombrowski's risk-taking takes a hit?

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 07:10 PM
It also helps to have very high draft picks for a few years straight...athough Porcello fell to late 1st round this past year.

I won't deny that. Its not like we wiff on Maybin and Miller because we didnt scout them, we havent had the picks.

That said we passed on Ellsbury and Garza among others to take Broadway. Sweeney is falling, Anderson a bust. Meanwhile Detroit finds guys in middle and later rounds who contribute. They draft well outside of round 1.

drewcifer
12-04-2007, 07:10 PM
Don't tell that to anyone around here (especially Domeshot). The Tigers are about to start their 8-peat.

Maybe not an 8-peat, but a definite shot a building a year to year contender (like KW wants).

Dombrowski and Leyland, but this time with an owner that won't turn and firesale after all the effort.

Yeah, there's legitimate cause for concern.

Domeshot17
12-04-2007, 07:14 PM
When did I say they have no clue how to draft?

You, OTOH, continue to kiss Dave Dombrowski's ass, would you?

No, both of those teams are actually in great shape; the Royals too. The Sox are going in the opposite direction, and the Tigers soon will be.

Money is a risk. That's what the Tigers do, they take risks. Fortunately for them, it's worked out lately...what happens if it doesn't?

And they don't even do it out of the draft. Nearly that whole 2006 lineup was 'risky business.'

In the last couple years? Nothing. Before that, All Stars such as Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Aaron Rowand, etc. See how quickly our farm turned to crap? Now, what happens when Dombrowski's risk-taking takes a hit?

Heres why I like Dombroski's style. The tigers did what they had to do. For a few years that was really risk and overpay to get the top guys, but they got them. Then the others started follow, and they mixed in prospects.

What you are forgetting is when they let Sheffield and Magglio and Renteria etc. walk, they will get comp for most of those guys.

The Red Sox are living proof you can unload and reload a farm in 2 years. As of right now you have to think the Tigers can do that. I admit they are living on the edge, but just because they gamble doesn't mean they are clueless. Yes at some point will they get burned by a borchard esque prospect, sure. But they are taking educated risks that are paying off, you can't hate that. You can hate them for overpaying to land guys sure. You can even hate them for working with Boras when others won't. But to hate them because they have a deep farm I don't get.

FloridaSox
12-04-2007, 07:32 PM
Dave Dombroski is my kind of general manager...wow, the Tigers are going to be awesome.

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-04-2007, 08:23 PM
Dave Dombroski is my kind of general manager...wow, the Tigers are going to be awesome.

:rolleyes:

areilly
12-04-2007, 08:32 PM
What I do not get is that the Marlins are essentially getting six minor leaguers. The two big names the tigers are offering have barely sniffed the majors and shown any auccess. Fields and Danks are by far to more attractive pieces. Well Danks maybe a wash with the starter the Tigers are offering but Fields has MLB expereince and can fit the position that the trade vacates for the Marlins

I really don't think Florida is looking for any kind of on-field success right now; clear salary, develop prospects into future trade-bait, repeat. Costs stay low, revenue sharing pretty much pays for the Marlins' non-existent payroll, and people get rich. I think it's pretty smart, business-wise.

Flight #24
12-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Tigers have shown they can build a farm. So what does it matter to them to lost some prospects. They still have a bunch of players and pitchers who don't project to fade significantly in the next 2-3 years. And by then, they'll probably have some more prospects.

That's how you run an organization. Take notes Kenny.:angry:

And stop being amazed at the price of FAs. It seems like you're the only one who is.

Brian26
12-04-2007, 08:48 PM
Tigers have shown they can build a farm. So what does it matter to them to lost some prospects. They still have a bunch of players and pitchers who don't project to fade significantly in the next 2-3 years. And by then, they'll probably have some more prospects.

Great post. I give teams like Boston and Detroit credit. Developing a farm system that allows them to make trades like this is all part of running a successful organization. And don't assume their farm is going to be crippled now for the next 10 years.

Grzegorz
12-04-2007, 09:23 PM
What have we come out of a draft with recently? I admit, I envy the Tigers ability to find value in drafts.

I totally agree with you. The Tigers have proven that they know how to draft. This move on paper is a great move for the Tigers.

Taliesinrk
12-05-2007, 10:18 AM
I totally agree with you. The Tigers have proven that they know how to draft. This move on paper is a great move for the Tigers.


Come on though.. we havent had the early 2000's seasons that DET did to enable us to get draft picks like they did

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 10:28 AM
Come on though.. we havent had the early 2000's seasons that DET did to enable us to get draft picks like they did

But even with the first round picks we DO have we make "signability" a major concern.

I went along with this for a while, because Kenny was a genius at overhyping prospects and getting value for them. I don't think that's the case any more. Getting Freddy for a bag of balls was brilliant because Kenny had us convinced that Reed was a superstar in waiting. Royce Ring is another example of getting something for a whole hyped-up lot of nothing.

But GM's seem to be catching on to the fact that NO White Sox prospect we traded in the past 5 years has amounted to much of anything but a hell-of-a-chair-thrower...and that doesn't bode well with our piss poor "cost effective" method of drafting

Flight #24
12-05-2007, 10:56 AM
Come on though.. we havent had the early 2000's seasons that DET did to enable us to get draft picks like they did

Yeah, except that they also do things like grab one of the top 3 pitching prospects in this past draft.....at 27. That's right, in a couple years they'll still have the potential to add a highly rated kid. And their drafting process is still working.

Kenny has money (JR authorized by my count 15-25M in payroll bump based on them wanted to sign Hunter and trade for Cabrera). He just doesn't seem to value players in line with the market and/or to expect a correction that never seems to materialize.

If this deal isn't actually final Kenny should call up Florida and offer Fields+Gio+Danks+Sweeney+Phillips+any C from our system. But even that might not do it.

At this point, by my count the Sox are worse than the Tigers at every single position on the field. But I guess that's why they play the games.

2008 White Sox Baseball: "Come watch the stars come out.....in opposing uniforms while they pound our guys!"

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 10:59 AM
Yeah, except that they also do things like grab one of the top 3 pitching prospects in this past draft.....at 27. That's right, in a couple years they'll still have the potential to add a highly rated kid. And their drafting process is still working.

Kenny has money (JR authorized by my count 15-25M in payroll bump based on them wanted to sign Hunter and trade for Cabrera). He just doesn't seem to value players in line with the market and/or to expect a correction that never seems to materialize.

He's so gunshy about working with Boras too, that it costs us a lot of prospects in the draft. It's quite disconcerting.

I think he's right not to have gone over the Angels's head for Hunter, but I don't think finance was a concern in the Cabrera deal, except for how our financial cowardice in terms of drafting has kept us from having a talented farm system.

Flight #24
12-05-2007, 11:07 AM
He's so gunshy about working with Boras too, that it costs us a lot of prospects in the draft. It's quite disconcerting.

I think he's right not to have gone over the Angels's head for Hunter, but I don't think finance was a concern in the Cabrera deal, except for how our financial cowardice in terms of drafting has kept us from having a talented farm system.

The problem is that if you're centering your offseason around a player, then you don't make him an offer that you know he's only going to accept if he's willing to take a discount. You make him an offer that he accepts. Unfortunately, that's Kenny's mantra. It happened with Vizquel, hell - it almost happened with Dye but he decided he'd given his word. It happened with Konerko but he gave the discount.

And similarly with Cabrera. If the Marlins were happy with Fields+Gio/Danks+??? then when the Tigers upped the ante, you respond with: "OK, Fields+Gio+Danks+???". Especially if you're getting Willis back. You either slot Willis in for Danks or you flip him to another team later (Mets?). Or if worst comes to worst, you dump Contreras in a salary play (I'm sure a team like the Mets would take him for free). Or in a real bad scenario, you play Miggy in LF, Owens in CF, and Crede at 3B and play with the 4 vet SPs and Floyd.

But at least then you'd have a realistic shot. Now you're hoping that "grit" and "Chemistry" outweigh "vastly superior talent". And that usually doesn't happen.

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 11:16 AM
The problem is that if you're centering your offseason around a player, then you don't make him an offer that you know he's only going to accept if he's willing to take a discount. You make him an offer that he accepts. Unfortunately, that's Kenny's mantra. It happened with Vizquel, hell - it almost happened with Dye but he decided he'd given his word. It happened with Konerko but he gave the discount.

And similarly with Cabrera. If the Marlins were happy with Fields+Gio/Danks+??? then when the Tigers upped the ante, you respond with: "OK, Fields+Gio+Danks+???". Especially if you're getting Willis back. You either slot Willis in for Danks or you flip him to another team later (Mets?). Or if worst comes to worst, you dump Contreras in a salary play (I'm sure a team like the Mets would take him for free). Or in a real bad scenario, you play Miggy in LF, Owens in CF, and Crede at 3B and play with the 4 vet SPs and Floyd.

But at least then you'd have a realistic shot. Now you're hoping that "grit" and "Chemistry" outweigh "vastly superior talent". And that usually doesn't happen.

Here's the thing:

Tell me who on earth we could have included with our offer of Fields/Gio/Danks/Broadway that would have

a.) made the Marlins consider our deal

AND

b.) not have crippled us (i.e. clearly you don't offer Jenks or Burls)

Flight #24
12-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Here's the thing:

Tell me who on earth we could have included with our offer of Fields/Gio/Danks/Broadway that would have

a.) made the Marlins consider our deal

AND

b.) not have crippled us (i.e. clearly you don't offer Jenks or Burls)

I don't know, I'm jsut saying that if indeed the Marlins liked the Field+Gio/Danks centered package, then they'd have to at least consider including both. By accounts, the Tigers top 2 are better than our guys, but the rest are much iffier. Including 2 top pitchers and Fields would at least be comparable. Then you throw in Phillips, Sweeney/Anderson, and if they want a C - Lucy or whoever. And you don't balk at taking on Willis, which I have a feeling the Sox did.

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 11:22 AM
I don't know, I'm jsut saying that if indeed the Marlins liked the Field+Gio/Danks centered package, then they'd have to at least consider including both. By accounts, the Tigers top 2 are better than our guys, but the rest are much iffier. Including 2 top pitchers and Fields would at least be comparable. Then you throw in Phillips, Sweeney/Anderson, and if they want a C - Lucy or whoever. And you don't balk at taking on Willis, which I have a feeling the Sox did.

The thing is, we don't have any grade-A prospects or even really any B-grade prospects to offer.

Sure we could have thrown Phillips, Sweeney, Anderson, or Lucy at them, but frankly, that's kind of like throwing crap on the deal and saying "here's some...more players."

I also think it's troubling that the main pieces the Tigers were offering were farmhands, and our major pieces were players we were counting on to produce at the major league level. The reason behind that? We don't have any minor league players who could be considered "major pieces"

balke
12-05-2007, 11:24 AM
He's so gunshy about working with Boras too, that it costs us a lot of prospects in the draft. It's quite disconcerting.


A lot? Like Porcello and who? Noone wanted Porcello for the money. Forget Boras. The Sox don't need his players.

I think there's a lot more going on in terms of development than with drafting talent. The Sox were the top rated Farm talent team in the early 2000's, and none of those players really did anything so far. A lot of players that came up and did well were supposed to do MUCH better than they did. I have to wonder what's happening to these players down on the farm.

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 11:25 AM
A lot? Like Porcello and who? Noone wanted Porcello for the money. Forget Boras. The Sox don't need his players.

I think there's a lot more going on in terms of development than with drafting talent. The Sox were the top rated Farm talent team in the early 2000's, and none of those players really did anything so far. A lot of players that came up and did well were supposed to do MUCH better than they did. I have to wonder what's happening to these players down on the farm.


Jesus, I don't know. Ask Daver. I just know that every time I hear about a Sox 1st round draft pick, "signability" is always cited as a plus for him

fquaye149
12-05-2007, 11:28 AM
Actually, look no further than this thread on our very own WSI:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95354

voodoochile
12-05-2007, 11:37 AM
We don't need three of these threads. You want to talk about the Detroit trade, it's in TB. Ripping on KW is in the Clubhouse.