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sox230
12-04-2007, 02:49 PM
I don't know about you, but I know pitching wins championships, and Kenny out of anybody should know that. That said, I DO NOT feel at all confident about our pitching staff with buerhle, vazquez, a bad contreras, and then more question marks. I wonder why starting pitching hasn't been a focus of improvement this offseason. Especially like with rumors about Santana and Haren or more realistically Bedard and Prior. I just don't understand why Kenny won't go after these guys and why he is so confident in guys like floyd, danks and broadway when none of them have been good at the major league level.

Jimmy Piersall
12-04-2007, 02:55 PM
I don't know about you, but I know pitching wins championships, and Kenny out of anybody should know that. That said, I DO NOT feel at all confident about our pitching staff with buerhle, vazquez, a bad contreras, and then more question marks. I wonder why starting pitching hasn't been a focus of improvement this offseason. Especially like with rumors about Santana and Haren or more realistically Bedard and Prior. I just don't understand why Kenny won't go after these guys and why he is so confident in guys like floyd, danks and broadway when none of them have been good at the major league level.


Agree 1000% here. I'd rather he chase Haren or Bedard with a big package. I'd be ok with a top 3 of Haren/Bedard,Burly,and Vaskez compared to what it looks like now. Especially because both those guys are affordable and signed for 2-3 more years. If it means that DLS-Gio-and one or two others to add on, i think he should go for it. Then again,maybe he has already kicked those tires and both teams aren't interested in what Kenny is offering.

oeo
12-04-2007, 03:45 PM
I don't know about you, but I know pitching wins championships, and Kenny out of anybody should know that. That said, I DO NOT feel at all confident about our pitching staff with buerhle, vazquez, a bad contreras, and then more question marks. I wonder why starting pitching hasn't been a focus of improvement this offseason. Especially like with rumors about Santana and Haren or more realistically Bedard and Prior. I just don't understand why Kenny won't go after these guys and why he is so confident in guys like floyd, danks and broadway when none of them have been good at the major league level.

This is why we can't build a championship contender in one year. Of course we need help in the rotation, but we also need help in the outfield and the bullpen. Too many holes to fill in just one offseason...build for '09.

nccwsfan
12-04-2007, 05:09 PM
I don't know about you, but I know pitching wins championships, and Kenny out of anybody should know that. That said, I DO NOT feel at all confident about our pitching staff with buerhle, vazquez, a bad contreras, and then more question marks. I wonder why starting pitching hasn't been a focus of improvement this offseason. Especially like with rumors about Santana and Haren or more realistically Bedard and Prior. I just don't understand why Kenny won't go after these guys and why he is so confident in guys like floyd, danks and broadway when none of them have been good at the major league level.

Because the White Sox had other issues that needed to be addressed (CF, SS, bullpen, leadoff hitter) when the season ended and starting pitching was not high on that list. SS has been addressed, the bullpen is being addressed, and the OF is being addressed. I'll go on the assumption that Owens will be our CF and leadoff hitter.

You can't automatically assume that because the rotation hasn't been addressed yet that it won't happen at all. Santana won't be traded to a divisional rival, and for all we know KW has offers on the table for Haren, Bedard, Prior, etc. Let the offseason play out and see where we are on Feb. 15th.

You might want to look up Broadway's stats as well- I would consider his 07' MLB numbers to be very good.

Lip Man 1
12-04-2007, 05:36 PM
I agree.

The back three of the starting rotation makes me very nervous and the guts of one of the worst bullpens in MLB are still around.

More and more I am forced to come around to the point of view that OEO expressed, despite what Kenny has been publicly saying it is almost impossible to "contend" next season with the issues facing the club.

Lip

doublem23
12-04-2007, 05:52 PM
This is why we can't build a championship contender in one year. Of course we need help in the rotation, but we also need help in the outfield and the bullpen. Too many holes to fill in just one offseason...build for '09.

I'm sure that same sentiment was echoed in Winter of 2004/05.

Never compromise the present for the future, because the future is never today.

Lip Man 1
12-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Double:

Part of me strongly agrees with your contention but I can't find a way out of this box. Can you?

1. Little or no minor league talent.
2. Limited finances
3. Play in toughest division in MLB
4. Play in toughest league in MLB

Sure nothing is guaranteed but at 52 years old and two years removed from a World Series title (in a year when neither Cleveland nor Detroit was as good as they are now) I'm getting a little to old to 'hope' for miracles don't you think?

Lip

JB98
12-04-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm not confident in the pitching staff either. We had four reliable pitchers last season, Buerhle, Javy, Gar and Jenks. Gar got dealt. And then there were three.....

nccwsfan
12-04-2007, 09:23 PM
I'm not confident in the pitching staff either. We had four reliable pitchers last season, Buerhle, Javy, Gar and Jenks. Gar got dealt. And then there were three.....

What about Wassermann? Boone Logan vs. Lefties? Broadway during his September callup?

JB98
12-04-2007, 09:25 PM
What about Wassermann? Boone Logan vs. Lefties? Broadway during his September callup?

Wassermann was here for less than two months. Broadway made one start against the last-place Royals. You expect me to list them with Buerhle, Javy, Gar and Jenks? Not a chance.

As for Boone, he is a mediocre specialist. He only looked good in comparison to the other trash we were trotting out there in relief.

Lip Man 1
12-04-2007, 09:33 PM
I agree with JB in particular on Logan. He gave up some damaging home runs last year to left handers and he's supposed to be the lefty specialist.

Plus by his own admission he mentally lost it in 2006.

That in particular doesn't inspire confidence say in a key game in August in the middle of a pennant run does it?

Lip

nccwsfan
12-04-2007, 09:45 PM
Wassermann was here for less than two months. Broadway made one start against the last-place Royals. You expect me to list them with Buerhle, Javy, Gar and Jenks? Not a chance.

As for Boone, he is a mediocre specialist. He only looked good in comparison to the other trash we were trotting out there in relief.

Javy, Buehrle, and Jenks all performed in 07' and are in their own class. I was going off of your statement related to confidence in only three pitchers, putting more focus on the bullpen.

Wassermann
94 PA, 2.74 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 7 BB, 14 K's

Logan (vs. Lefties)
99 PA, 2.35 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 10 BB, 22 K's

Not All-Star numbers, but would you agree that if they could put those kind of numbers up throughout the 2008 season that would inspire confidence?

JB98
12-04-2007, 09:48 PM
Javy, Buehrle, and Jenks all performed in 07' and are in their own class. I was going off of your statement related to confidence in only three pitchers, putting more focus on the bullpen.

Wassermann
94 PA, 2.74 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 7 BB, 14 K's

Logan (vs. Lefties)
99 PA, 2.35 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 10 BB, 22 K's

Not All-Star numbers, but would you agree that if they could put those kind of numbers up throughout the 2008 season that would inspire confidence?

Logan does not inspire confidence for the reason Lip gave. Wassermann, maybe. I'm worried he'll go the way of Shingo. He has to be precise with his command in order to be effective.

Madvora
12-05-2007, 09:00 AM
I didn't have that much confidence going into 2008 with the same rotation as last year, but now we're one guy short with Garland gone.
Right now, I'm pretty worried about this because it doesn't seem like it's an issue to KW at all.

kitekrazy
12-05-2007, 12:43 PM
I don't know about you, but I know pitching wins championships, and Kenny out of anybody should know that. That said, I DO NOT feel at all confident about our pitching staff with buerhle, vazquez, a bad contreras, and then more question marks. I wonder why starting pitching hasn't been a focus of improvement this offseason. Especially like with rumors about Santana and Haren or more realistically Bedard and Prior. I just don't understand why Kenny won't go after these guys and why he is so confident in guys like floyd, danks and broadway when none of them have been good at the major league level.

Pitching has become over priced in MLB. MB and Vasquez are bargains.

kitekrazy
12-05-2007, 12:46 PM
I didn't have that much confidence going into 2008 with the same rotation as last year, but now we're one guy short with Garland gone.
Right now, I'm pretty worried about this because it doesn't seem like it's an issue to KW at all.

Did you have that confidence before 2005 started? When your 5th starter (Garland) wins 18 games that does a lot.

Lip Man 1
12-05-2007, 01:27 PM
Kite:

Well before 2005 started I saw the Sox with (in my opinion) five solid starters at least.

The outlook to me at that point looked better then it does now regarding the rotation.

We'll see how it plays out.

Lip

Madvora
12-05-2007, 02:45 PM
Did you have that confidence before 2005 started? When your 5th starter (Garland) wins 18 games that does a lot.
Yeah, I did. In 2005 we finally were in a year where we picked up a 5th starter and weren't trying the Danny Wright crap anymore. Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia, Garland and Hernandez. Yes, I was confident.