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View Full Version : Red Sox, Twins are close....Yanks appear to be out of mix


Fenway
12-04-2007, 11:47 AM
The Red Sox and Twins exchanged medical information on pitchers Johan Santana and Jon Lester early this morning, indicating that the clubs may be closing in on a deal for the two-time Cy Young Award winner. (By Gordon Edes and Amalie Benjamin, Boston Globe)


the buzz Report: Twins satisfied with Lester's medical records (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/)
Hank Steinbrenner: Yankees' deal for Johan Santana `probably off' (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/04/santana_deadline_passes)

Dan Mega
12-04-2007, 11:59 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95286

weareud
12-04-2007, 12:05 PM
Jesus, how many threads do we need on the red sox and santana?

Fenway
12-04-2007, 12:45 PM
It's not done yet (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/)

Will it be a package featuring Jacoby Ellsbury or one that includes Jon Lester? Reportedly, that's what the Twins are trying to decide between this afternoon in a potential trade with the Red Sox for Johan Santana.

boston sports blog Uberteam could be reality (http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/12/04/everythings_coming_their_way/)
touching all the bases Everything's coming our way (http://touchingallthebases.blogspot.com/)

Mr. White Sox
12-04-2007, 12:54 PM
It's not done yet (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/)

Will it be a package featuring Jacoby Ellsbury or one that includes Jon Lester? Reportedly, that's what the Twins are trying to decide between this afternoon in a potential trade with the Red Sox for Johan Santana.

boston sports blog Uberteam could be reality (http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/12/04/everythings_coming_their_way/)
touching all the bases Everything's coming our way (http://touchingallthebases.blogspot.com/)

I still don't get how either package could be considered remotely close to the Hughes/Cabrera/Prospect package from the Yankees. The Twins get a potential ace in Hughes and a perennial solid player and potential all-star in Melky. Meanwhile, Ellsbury has a ton of upside and could end up a better player than Cabrera, but Hughes trumps any other player in the deal, in my opinion.

Plus, as Phil Rogers mentioned in his column (and I completely agree with this), why the hell would you trade Santana to the hands-down best team in the AL? The Twins would basically be conceding the entire American League to Boston for the next three to four years if this trade goes down.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2007, 12:54 PM
The Twins must be really high on Lester and Liriano to not ask for Buchholz in this deal. I'm still surprised the Dodgers haven't stepped in. They seem to have a load of prospects that would spark the Twins interest.

spiffie
12-04-2007, 12:55 PM
This scenario is really the ultimate nightmare for baseball. A team with basically unlimited resources, and the patience and management skill to not totally squander them. If you're a team in the AL East not named the Yankees, can you honestly hope to have a realistic shot of making the playoffs, when the Red Sox are pretty much able to put together a team that should win 110 games per year?

For the last decade baseball's massive competitive imbalances have been covered over due to the Yankees being unable to harness their massive resources fully. The Red Sox seem on the verge of laying out the blueprint on how to do that.

The worst part is that for all the other bigger-market teams, at some point they need to try and play catch up. What happens when the Cubs decide "well, we need a $175 million payroll too" and the Dodgers and the Mets follow suit?

The great fear was that some team would realize pitching wins titles, and the Red Sox have figured it out, and now have two of the top four pitchers in the AL, along with one of the two best pitching prospects in the AL. I have a bad feeling that Boston fans are just going to get more and more obnoxious as they have more things to crow about. I also have a feeling that Boston fans might be the cause of the first full-scale Euro soccer-style riot at an MLB game in the coming years.

CHIsoxNation
12-04-2007, 01:59 PM
I guess we can throw the Angels into the mix too.

According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227077

rowand33
12-04-2007, 02:05 PM
I guess we can throw the Angels into the mix too.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227077

The Angels making a late bid? Shocking.

thedudeabides
12-04-2007, 02:09 PM
I guess we can throw the Angels into the mix too.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227077

I've been waiting for more teams to get involved. The Dodgers are also rumored to be interested, but for now are talking to the O's about Bedard.

It looks like the Twins may be playing this pretty smart. If others keep showing interest the price will keep going up.

areilly
12-04-2007, 02:15 PM
I have a bad feeling that Boston fans are just going to get more and more obnoxious as they have more things to crow about. I also have a feeling that Boston fans might be the cause of the first full-scale Euro soccer-style riot at an MLB game in the coming years.

Since you mention it, English Premier League soccer has pretty much drawn up the template for disparity. A total of 40 clubs have come and gone in the fifteen years of the league, but only four have won the championship, while quite a few teams have been essentially permanently demoted to non-contending status barring a massive change of ownership policy.

I realize that most MLB teams are just a really expensive hobby for their owners, but it'd be funny to see some nobody team come out of nowhere and crush everyone else in spending. I'm talking like a $400 million payroll.

Ah well. **** the Red Sox anyway.

DSpivack
12-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Since you mention it, English Premier League soccer has pretty much drawn up the template for disparity. A total of 40 clubs have come and gone in the fifteen years of the league, but only four have won the championship, while quite a few teams have been essentially permanently demoted to non-contending status barring a massive change of ownership policy.

I realize that most MLB teams are just a really expensive hobby for their owners, but it'd be funny to see some nobody team come out of nowhere and crush everyone else in spending. I'm talking like a $400 million payroll.

Ah well. **** the Red Sox anyway.

In today's news, Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich has bought the Pittsburgh Pirates...

CHIsoxNation
12-04-2007, 03:20 PM
If true, then Santana looks to be out of the AL Central by the end of today.

According to a source familiar with the negotiations, the Twins have told suitors they want to complete the Johan Santana deal by the end of today.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/home_MLB.aspx

getonbckthr
12-04-2007, 03:23 PM
This is bad news for the AL Central

chaerulez
12-04-2007, 03:29 PM
In today's news, Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich has bought the Pittsburgh Pirates...

I'm waiting for the day that happens. Someone like Abramovich or Cuban buys a small market team and decides to just have a $150 million payroll. It'd be funny because all the New York and Boston fans would *****.

Sockinchisox
12-04-2007, 04:19 PM
BP is saying Santana to Red Sox all but done, Lester, a CF, Masterson and Kalish.

Edit: I'd post a link but I've been told not to post BP stuff anymore so ya.

NM, rotoworld just reported it.

Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll reports that the Red Sox and Twins are all but done with a Johan Santana deal that includes Jon Lester, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish.
Carroll cryptically says that the second player in the deal is a center fielder without naming either Coco Crisp or Jacoby Ellsbury. The talk all day has been that'd be both Lester and Crisp together or Ellsbury in a deal.
Source: Baseball Prospectus (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6970)
Related: Angels (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=ANA), Red Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=BOS), Yankees (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=NYY)

Fenway
12-04-2007, 04:33 PM
Please leave Elsbury out of this :praying:

spiffie
12-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Please leave Elsbury out of this :praying:
Yes, you'd hate to overpay for the best pitcher in baseball. If the Red Sox didn't have a quality CF who knows where they might get one? Especially with their limited resources.

WizardsofOzzie
12-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Jesus, how many threads do we need on the red sox and santana?
Carry the 4.....2,345,812 :tongue:

Yes, you'd hate to overpay for the best pitcher in baseball. If the Red Sox didn't have a quality CF who knows where they might get one? Especially with their limited resources.
:tealpolice:

ma-gaga
12-04-2007, 05:20 PM
If the Twins get Lester/Ellsbury, I'll be a happy dancing banana: :bandance:

But where did Lowrie go? That kid looks nice (at least his baseball cube minor league stats look solid). I want that kid in any deal.

Ideally: Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson. :cool:

Fenway
12-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Yes, you'd hate to overpay for the best pitcher in baseball. If the Red Sox didn't have a quality CF who knows where they might get one? Especially with their limited resources.

BTW if Coco doesn't go to Minny he might very well wind up on 35th St

Fenway
12-04-2007, 05:31 PM
Angels out of Santana race (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/angels_not_in_o.html)

Link (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/angels_not_in_o.html) By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff December 4, 07 05:54 PM
Angels GM Tony Reagins just told reporters that there was no truth to Angels being involved in Johan Santana negotiations. Reagins said he never talked to Twins.

The Newark Star Ledger just reported that the Yankees are out of the running for Johan Santana. One Red Sox source said he was skeptical that was the case.
The Twins, meanwhile, have outrighted a player off their 40-man roster, the kind of move that often takes place before a trade, as they try to create roster space.

The Commissioner, Peter Gammons, says a fifth player may be in the package that the Red Sox would give the Twins for Santana, minor league outfielder Ryan Kalish, but my sources could not confirm that. The Red Sox people I'm talking to say they're still waiting.

Fenway
12-05-2007, 09:56 AM
Lip will spit out his coffee whwn he reads this.

The Yankees dropped out of the Santana derby BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD HIM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/05/gal_backpage_1205.jpg (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/december_back_pages/december_back_pages.html?c=1)

Brian, Yanks cash out
In the end, Brian Cashman prevailed, convincing Hank and Hal Steinbrenner of something he could never have done with their dad - that trading for Johan Santana was simply too expensive for the New York Yankees.

spiffie
12-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Lip will spit out his coffee whwn he reads this.

The Yankees dropped out of the Santana derby BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD HIM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/05/gal_backpage_1205.jpg (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/december_back_pages/december_back_pages.html?c=1)

Brian, Yanks cash out
In the end, Brian Cashman prevailed, convincing Hank and Hal Steinbrenner of something he could never have done with their dad - that trading for Johan Santana was simply too expensive for the New York Yankees.
This is great news. I assume the undead are beginning to walk as we speak, because this surely is a sign of the end of all things.

The Yankees are ****ing morons if this is true. They spend hundreds of millions on Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano and Kei Igawa, but they suddenly have to watch the budget for the best pitcher in baseball.

This is why, and I hate typing this, the Red Sox are the smartest team around. They have more money than all but one team, and they use it wisely for the most part. Yes, they sign JD Drew from time to time, but if this deal doesn't go for the Red Sox, I doubt it will be because they wouldn't pay for the best pitcher in the game.

Fenway
12-05-2007, 10:57 AM
This is great news. I assume the undead are beginning to walk as we speak, because this surely is a sign of the end of all things.

The Yankees are ****ing morons if this is true. They spend hundreds of millions on Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano and Kei Igawa, but they suddenly have to watch the budget for the best pitcher in baseball.

This is why, and I hate typing this, the Red Sox are the smartest team around. They have more money than all but one team, and they use it wisely for the most part. Yes, they sign JD Drew from time to time, but if this deal doesn't go for the Red Sox, I doubt it will be because they wouldn't pay for the best pitcher in the game.

Yankees have never won without a good left hander pitching and Johan would solve that problem for a few years. Look how many years does Andy have left?

I have to think Boras suckered Boston with Drew because of Dice-K

Drew was lucky however as he picked a hell of a time to have his first big hit of the season :tongue:

http://www.dirtywatah.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/alcs_game6_jdslam.jpg

Fenway
12-05-2007, 11:38 AM
If you live in Minnesota, donít blame baseball for its lack of a salary cap. After all, Twins owner Carl Pohlad just so happens to be the 245th richest man in the world (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/75UU.html) with a net worth of $2.8 billion.

For all the incessant whining about the Haves (i.e., the Red Sox and Yankees), and Have-Nots (apparently everybody else) in todayís baseball landscape, perhaps nobody has noticed the five other teams besides the Red Sox that have won the World Series since 2001? Or that it was the Detroit Tigers who just pulled off one of the most jaw-dropping trades in at least a decade last night?

But if only the Red Sox or Yankees are able to afford a guy like Santana, then the poor kids arenít doing so badly for themselves this offseason. Consider the insanity of the Angels doling out $90 million for Torii Hunter, the Reds $46 million for Francisco Cordero, or the Royals (really) $36 million for three years for Jose Guillen.

One hundred fifty million dollars for the best pitcher in baseball seems nothing by comparison.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/12/05/supplies_and_demand/

areilly
12-05-2007, 11:56 AM
For all the incessant whining about the Haves (i.e., the Red Sox and Yankees), and Have-Nots (apparently everybody else) in todayís baseball landscape, perhaps nobody has noticed the five other teams besides the Red Sox that have won the World Series since 2001? Or that it was the Detroit Tigers who just pulled off one of the most jaw-dropping trades in at least a decade last night?
[snip]
One hundred fifty million dollars for the best pitcher in baseball seems nothing by comparison.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/12/05/supplies_and_demand/


Considering Boston and New York constitute 3 of the last 7 AL pennant winners, and considering that really only three, maybe four teams ever stood a chance of landing Santana, and that Boston is also coming off a winter where they paid $51mil just for the chance to attempt to sign a guy, and that Boston also was in a position to give $70mil to their throwaway outfielder, and that Boston...you know what, nevermind. The Red Sox and Yankees have the money and the will to get what they want, and they often do. I hate that. So does everyone else.

Post all the links you want to Boston newspapers somehow painting the rest of the nation as ignorant, or tell us the genius of the Red Sox' scouting system, but it's no use. Your team makes money and spends it, Fenway. What do you want us to say? "Way to go Red Sox?" I don't think so.

Paulwny
12-05-2007, 11:59 AM
If you live in Minnesota, donít blame baseball for its lack of a salary cap. After all, Twins owner Carl Pohlad just so happens to be the 245th richest man in the world (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/75UU.html) with a net worth of $2.8 billion.

For all the incessant whining about the Haves (i.e., the Red Sox and Yankees), and Have-Nots (apparently everybody else) in todayís baseball landscape, perhaps nobody has noticed the five other teams besides the Red Sox that have won the World Series since 2001? Or that it was the Detroit Tigers who just pulled off one of the most jaw-dropping trades in at least a decade last night?

But if only the Red Sox or Yankees are able to afford a guy like Santana, then the poor kids arenít doing so badly for themselves this offseason. Consider the insanity of the Angels doling out $90 million for Torii Hunter, the Reds $46 million for Francisco Cordero, or the Royals (really) $36 million for three years for Jose Guillen.

One hundred fifty million dollars for the best pitcher in baseball seems nothing by comparison.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/12/05/supplies_and_demand/


Fens, I'm sure you've looking at yankee message boards over the Santana saga.
Really funny to see messages saying ~ We're doomed if Boston gets Santana, ~ how will we ever compete, and the best one, when it was revealed that NY couldn't afford Santana, This organzation (NY) is cheap.
You gotta love it.

Fenway
12-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Fens, I'm sure you've looking at yankee message boards over the Santana saga.
Really funny to see messages saying ~ We're doomed if Boston gets Santana, ~ how will we ever compete, and the best one, when it was revealed that NY couldn't afford Santana, This organzation (NY) is cheap.
You gotta love it.

I'm waiting for them to bring Roger back................ :tongue:

http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/06/07clemens_9.jpg

Fenway
12-05-2007, 12:18 PM
12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
ē Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=winter_meetings


That won't bother Boston since as long as he doesn't go to New York they happy.

Fenway
12-05-2007, 12:56 PM
Ahhhh we may now know what the snag is

The Twins no longer wants Elsbury as he switched agents yesterday to guess who

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-05/1204boras.jpg

Fenway
12-05-2007, 03:29 PM
Everything coming out of Nashville now suggests that Santana will stay with the Twins.....for now

From Baseball Prospectus's winter meetings blog (3:30 p.m.): "A Minnesota official said Wednesday that he is '99 percent sure' that left-hander Johan Santana will still be a Twin when the meetings end Thursday."

From the Herald's Rob Bradford (3:19 p.m.): "The latest word out of Nashville suggests that Ellsbury wonít be going anywhere, as Minnesota has begun to listen to other offers with the prospect of holding on to Santana becoming more and more likely."

From FoxSports.com's Ken Rosenthal (2:42 p.m.): "The Angels continue to insist that they are not pursuing Santana. The Mets probably can't offer a good enough package of young players. But the Mariners, a team that is trying to add two starting pitchers, do not hide their interest... The Red Sox still appear to be the most likely match for the Twins, but while the teams are maintaining a healthy dialogue, a source said they 'are just not matching up right now.'"

ma-gaga
12-06-2007, 09:16 AM
The Twins no longer wants Elsbury as he switched agents yesterday to guess who

That shouldn't matter. He's a freaking rookie and cost controlled for the next 5 or 6 years. It's not like the Twins have to draft the guy and pay him his signing bonus. His best case scenario for his salary is:
2008: $350k
2009: $600k
2010: $1mm
2011: $5mm
2012: $10mm
2013: $15mm
--------------
6 years, $32mm; and that's if he becomes a star.

His agent really won't matter until 2013 or 2014. The Twins would be foolish to let Scott Boris scare them off.