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Fantosme
12-04-2007, 04:38 AM
According to Steve Phillips in the Winter Meetings blog, the Astros are considering trading Burke to the Sox for an unnamed reliever.

He can play 2B, SS, LF, CF, and RF. So I guess he would be the new Mackowiak.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3132311&name=winter_meetings
11:41 PM

ChiSoxFan35
12-04-2007, 05:00 AM
Bukvich?

I guess he's a body...

ChiSoxPatF
12-04-2007, 06:55 AM
As long as they give up almost nothing, I guess its an okay deal.

My understanding is he was rushed up to the majors in only three years of tearing up the minors (.296 BA w/ 108 SBs by 2004) after being the 1st Round pick (#10 overall) by Houston. His numbers are pedestrian at best with Houston but he could be another high ceiling, speedy reclamation project for Kenny to hedge his bets with Richar. He's also known as a gamer and a grinder, although take that for what its worth because thats normally the way you describe someone who is "tool-ed" out.

We'll see.

DumpJerry
12-04-2007, 07:53 AM
Bukvich?

I guess he's a body...
Bukvich is no longer with the White Sox.

The Immigrant
12-04-2007, 08:33 AM
Burke is $1.5 million cheaper than Cintron and should give us equal if not better production, especially if he can return to 2006 form.

If the reliever traded for him is MacDougal :praying:, that's a net savings of $3.5 million. But my guess is that Houston will want someone cheaper.

Tragg
12-04-2007, 08:39 AM
Career OPS under .700. - obp under .319---he'll fit right in. We certainly should give less than we received for far better hitters like Iguchi or Rob M. How about trading him for Uribe. Get rid of some of our excess in one of these deals. Uribe is better than Adam Everett. Or give the Astros the A ball pitcher we got for Iguchi - that would be reasonable justice.

Has one of these "reclamation project" position players ever worked out?

Regardless, we shouldn't give anything approaching real talent for this guy.

salty99
12-04-2007, 09:15 AM
I hope it's Aardsma or MacDougal.

BadBobbyJenks
12-04-2007, 09:17 AM
Career OPS under .700. - obp under .319---he'll fit right in. We certainly should give less than we received for far better hitters like Iguchi or Rob M. How about trading him for Uribe. Get rid of some of our excess in one of these deals. Uribe is better than Adam Everett. Or give the Astros the A ball pitcher we got for Iguchi - that would be reasonable justice.

Has one of these "reclamation project" position players ever worked out?

Regardless, we shouldn't give anything approaching real talent for this guy.


A lot of defensive analysis I have read rates Everett as the best defensive short stop in the game. I dont see the want for uribe in houston

the1tab
12-04-2007, 09:26 AM
Maybe they'll throw in a mid-level prospect for Jose Contreras. Burke's a younger Mackowiak but he can run... he just never had a chance to play on a regular basis because he's a natural middle infielder and the Astros had Biggio and Everett in his way. So his development was stunted by not getting playing time.

Let's take my last sentence from above and see who is going to fall into that category in Chicago if Burke is acquired: Burke, Jerry Owens or Danny Richar. Seems like we're stockpiling people w/ nowhere to play them. I still think we'd be nuts to not at least explore a Uribe-to-St Louis possibility. I know they just signed Izturis, but let's all be totally honest with ourselves about what Cesar Izturis brings to the table: Nothing. His injuries have robbed him of his range and he never could hit... he's Pat Listach for the new millenium. I would take almost anything for Uribe at this point, largely because it clears the way for Burke, who has more value to the roster because A) he's younger, B) he's less expensive and C) he plays more positions.

:dtroll:

RowanDye
12-04-2007, 09:44 AM
I hope it's Aardsma or MacDougal.

Yea this would be good for Aardsma, IIRC he's out of options. There is also very little chance of Aardsma ever being worth anything to this team again with Ozzie at the helm. I love Ozzie, but I don't think he is the easiest guy to regain your confidence under.

Does anyone know if Burke can play 1B as well?

asindc
12-04-2007, 09:46 AM
Career OPS under .700. - obp under .319---he'll fit right in. We certainly should give less than we received for far better hitters like Iguchi or Rob M. How about trading him for Uribe. Get rid of some of our excess in one of these deals. Uribe is better than Adam Everett. Or give the Astros the A ball pitcher we got for Iguchi - that would be reasonable justice.

Has one of these "reclamation project" position players ever worked out?

Regardless, we shouldn't give anything approaching real talent for this guy.

You could argue that Dye was a reclamation project given his injury history. Uribe, maybe to a lesseer extent, at least for 2005 it worked out. AJ for behavioral issues. I do understand your general point, however. But that is the nature of a reclamation project. Hit or miss, with relatively little invested.

Tragg
12-04-2007, 09:58 AM
You could argue that Dye was a reclamation project given his injury history. Uribe, maybe to a lesseer extent, at least for 2005 it worked out. AJ for behavioral issues. I do understand your general point, however. But that is the nature of a reclamation project. Hit or miss, with relatively little invested.

Uribe is a good example, though. The Sox turned this strange player into a major leaguer.
Dye had a lot of major league prowess behind him.

Burke is a backup infielder. We'll need one of those, presuming we can trade Uribe. But those guys should come real cheap - like Aardsma cheap.

To me, Williams' best moves is when he trades his garbage for their garbage. Borchard for Thornton; whowever that was (I think he's with the Tigers or someone) for Marte.

btrain929
12-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Cintron of '06 was a good project. He was great off the bench. Last year, of course, not so much, but it's hard to have bench players succeed year in and year out outside of Daryl Ward. He can play all the OF positions and the positions up the middle, and can actually play them all well defensively unlike Cintron who plays a lot of positions but sucks at them. If we could get anything like Burke's '06 year off the bench, i'd be very happy. I'd like to think Aardsma would be the likely suspect because he's out of options and I don't think there's room for another righty in our pen, especially one with his control issues. Burke will replace Cintron. I wouldn't mind this happening at all.

santo=dorf
12-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Burke last two season against LHP have been pretty good, of course if Richar gets off to a cold start, Burke will become the new Mackowiak.

ChiSoxPatF
12-04-2007, 10:23 AM
Has one of these "reclamation project" position players ever worked out?


I'm not at all saying he's going to be a success in a Sox uniform, but, if we get him for a bag of balls and some rasin, it wouldn't be a bad move. He once had upside and he's still relatively young. As long as the Sox aren't banking on him as a starter, he really isn't a bad pickup.

Tragg
12-04-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm not at all saying he's going to be a success in a Sox uniform, but, if we get him for a bag of balls and some rasin, it wouldn't be a bad move.
Agree 100%.
Aardsma - I'm all for it.

russ99
12-04-2007, 11:17 AM
As someone who follows the Astros almost as much as the Sox, I gotta say: Kenny don't do it.

Chris Burke is ill suited for any kind of bench/platoon role, since he's failed miserably each time the Astros gave him a chance, he doesn't have the focus to pinch-hit and he's almost as bad-streaky as Uribe.

He needs an everyday job or better yet another year in the minors to develop into a more consistent hitter, and while he's decent in the field, that doesn't make up for it.

Seeing what Richar brings to the table, he's a much more sure bet than Burke, plus we've already got Ozuna as a infield backup.

Also, I'm not sold on giving up Aardsma for such a risky return as Burke, as relievers are strange that one year they're awful and the next decent. See Riske, David. If Linebrink solidifies the setup role, Aardsma will have less pressure to excel.

BTW: Uribe is only a better hitter than Everett by slugging homers and Everett is much better defensively. Wade wants to re-load with pitching, speed and defense, so Everett will stay and he has lots to prove after last season's injury.

Chicken Dinner
12-04-2007, 11:31 AM
Bukvich is no longer with the White Sox.

10/26/07 Sent RHP Ryan Bukvich outright to Triple-A Charlotte, he refused the assignment and is a free agent; Activated 3B Joe Crede from the 60-day disabled list; Activated INF Pablo Ozuna from the 60-day disabled list.

Tragg
12-04-2007, 11:44 AM
BTW: Uribe is only better than Everett in slugging homers and Everett is much better defensively. Wade wants to re-load with pitching, speed and defense, so Everett will stay and he has lots to prove after last season's injury. That's a big difference. The bottom of the order has suffocated the Astros for a while now - Ausmus, Everett, pitcher is just as bad as you could possibly get.
When he's into it, Uribe is a fine defensive player and his O is a lot better than Everett's. Nobody would give Everett a $4.5 million contract.
They probably don't want Uribe, but I doubt they wouldn't like to upgrade Everett.
I get a lot of Astros stuff down here. Is Luke Scott available? What's the Astros issue with him?

UserNameBlank
12-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Please no. Burke for Andy Gonzalez? Sure. But not for pitching.

I was hoping that Kenny could take some of these pitchers with a bit of upside (Day, Aardsma, Masset, Sisco, Haeger, etc.) and spin them for a veteran reliever or two. Let's get a guy who can work two or three innings here and there. Vizcaino would be a nice pickup on the FA market. Other than that, the Pirates should still have Soloman Torres available. I hope we finally make a play for him this year. He shouldn't cost much at all and with the Pirates perpetually rebuilding, I think they'd take their chances with a couple of our bigger upside arms.

If not that, then I hope we take a few of these guys and try to pick up another Gavin Floyd type if possible. Just don't spin them off for bench players we will likely DFA by July.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-04-2007, 12:27 PM
I would not mind seeing Burke on the Sox. He would be a pretty good utility player and give the Sox a lot of flexibility. KW seems to have an infatuation with first round picks, so this would fit right into that philosophy.

You can have MacDougal or Thornton as far as I'm concerned. Take your pick.

russ99
12-04-2007, 12:45 PM
That's a big difference. The bottom of the order has suffocated the Astros for a while now - Ausmus, Everett, pitcher is just as bad as you could possibly get.
When he's into it, Uribe is a fine defensive player and his O is a lot better than Everett's. Nobody would give Everett a $4.5 million contract.
They probably don't want Uribe, but I doubt they wouldn't like to upgrade Everett.
I get a lot of Astros stuff down here. Is Luke Scott available? What's the Astros issue with him?

Luke Scott is available, mostly because he was injured 5 times last year, and the Astros brass is convinced he'd be risky to play every day. He's gotten a raw deal IMO (and in the eyes of a lot of Astros fans), and he'll do great with a change of scenery.

I think last year was a fluke and it would be dumb to deal him. He'd be a great 4th OF for the Astros, but it looks like Wade signed Jose Cruz Jr. for that role.

They're looking for a #2 or #3 starter in return for Scott and possibly Burke along with 1 or 2 of their young pitchers not named Patton.

The rumor I've heard is that the Astros are entertaining the idea of getting Tejada from the Orioles to replace Everett, but unless they give up a Pence or Patton, the O's probably won't bite, and the Astros prospect base is worse than the White Sox.

I doubt Uribe is an option for them, as they'd likely rather see if Everett plays better this year than take a chance on Uribe being in shape and hitting with better patience. It would be 8-spot for either of them with Towles starting at catcher, so it's negligible how much Uribe would improve their lineup. If anything Uribe would be worse since in the NL it's often the 8th hitter's job to get on base and prevent the pitcher from leading off the next inning.

Thornton is much more valuable to the Sox than a guy like Burke, and MacDougal's signed relatively cheaply, so I assume he'd be best used as a chip for a bigger deal. Aardsma or Masset is right on as far as equal value for Burke. What I don't understand is why the Astros need another middle reliever, other than a 2nd lefty. They need a closer and starting pitching pretty bad.

bestkosher
12-04-2007, 01:51 PM
Well with the Sox stretching out Nick Massett out in the minors to be a starter who knows if he will be shopped as a reliver or a starter.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 02:26 PM
He might be a good pickup for the bench. He can play Second and Center, and could be important if Richar or whoever is in CF is doesn't pan out.

thomas35forever
12-04-2007, 02:29 PM
I'd be glad to part with Aardsma or MacDougal. Besides that, Burke would be a great utility man to have. I got his autograph outside Wrigley last year.

Foulke You
12-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Also, I'm not sold on giving up Aardsma for such a risky return as Burke, as relievers are strange that one year they're awful and the next decent. See Riske, David. If Linebrink solidifies the setup role, Aardsma will have less pressure to excel.
Aardsma will continue to struggle at the MLB level until he develops a 2nd pitch. Aardsma has never had sustained success at the big league level because of this. He has a + fastball for sure, but when you can't get any breaking pitches over in the AL, you get clobbered. Riske was a veteran who had success in the past while Aardsma has never really been effective for an entire season. I think trading a 1 pitch reliever with potential for a young 2B with potential is a pretty even swap. It would be nice to have a 2nd option in case Richar doesn't pan out.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-04-2007, 04:06 PM
Aardsma will continue to struggle at the MLB level until he develops a 2nd pitch. Aardsma has never had sustained success at the big league level because of this. He has a + fastball for sure, but when you can't get any breaking pitches over in the AL, you get clobbered. Riske was a veteran who had success in the past while Aardsma has never really been effective for an entire season. I think trading a 1 pitch reliever with potential for a young 2B with potential is a pretty even swap. It would be nice to have a 2nd option in case Richar doesn't pan out.

I still would give him one more chance. I'd rather the Sox trade Massett or Sisco than Aardsma.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2007, 04:10 PM
Maybe sisco.. not masset though.

nccwsfan
12-04-2007, 04:11 PM
I would have no problem with them moving Sisco- haven't given up on Masset and Aardsma yet.

oeo
12-04-2007, 04:31 PM
I would have no problem with them moving Sisco- haven't given up on Masset and Aardsma yet.

I believe all of them are out of options, which means they're going to have to go. I say keep Masset, and dump the other two.

I haven't heard much about Aardsma, but unless he's developed a breaking ball that he can consistently throw for strikes, he's not going to be much of anything. All fastballs, all the time, just isn't going to cut it.