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Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 01:43 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

Corlose 15
12-03-2007, 01:44 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

:o:

Fantosme
12-03-2007, 01:45 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

This should be a new thread, because no one is going to be discussing Quentin anymore.

SoxSpeed22
12-03-2007, 01:46 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..What's the source?! Do not cause uproar and panic!
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/932540/2/istockphoto_932540_panic_button.jpg

Goose
12-03-2007, 01:46 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

Konerko to AZ???

Me no likey.

MUsoxfan
12-03-2007, 01:46 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

I'd hate to Paulie go, but that deal wouldn't be bad and I know Paulie certainly wouldn't mind playing in Phoenix

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 01:47 PM
What's the source?! Do not cause uproar and panic!
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/932540/2/istockphoto_932540_panic_button.jpg


I'm not saying who my source is but he is high up in the D 'Backs organzation

oeo
12-03-2007, 01:51 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

If this is true, it seems like Kenny has changed gears and is looking towards 2009.

MUsoxfan
12-03-2007, 01:52 PM
If this is true, it seems like Kenny has changed gears and is looking towards 2009.

I completely disagree

psyclonis
12-03-2007, 01:53 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

yikes that trade really strengthens the sox for the future and frees up 12 mil (36 overall) for a possible Jones signing

Fantosme
12-03-2007, 01:53 PM
If this is true, it seems like Kenny has changed gears and is looking towards 2009.

I think the opposite. This reminds me of the Carlos Lee trade. It may have been unpopular, but it helped win the Sox a World Series.

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 01:53 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

I would hate to see Paulie go as would many people, but Kenny would help a lot of needs there. Another starter for the rotation and another bullpen guy (he is coming from the NL though) and a young first baseman. Each of the players are 25 too, so the team is getting younger and better IMO.

champagne030
12-03-2007, 01:54 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

Sweet. And on days Owings pitches we can use a DH for Owens. :redneck

balke
12-03-2007, 01:54 PM
Wow, Pena for the pen and send Owings somewhere else in the national league via a second trade so they can use his bat. Sounds pretty far off though, Konerko has a no trade doesn't he? And I thought he would only really leave for the Angels.

VenturaFan23
12-03-2007, 01:54 PM
What's the source?! Do not cause uproar and panic!
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/932540/2/istockphoto_932540_panic_button.jpg

:popcorn:

oeo
12-03-2007, 01:54 PM
I completely disagree

A lineup that includes Quentin, Fields, Richar, and Jackson, with a rotation that includes Owings, Danks/Floyd/Gio/etc? I'd think Contreras might be shipped out, too, so we can keep Floyd and Danks in the rotation.

Honestly, I like the idea of that team; I think it should have been Plan A. But I don't think that's a team that will compete for a World Series title (at least not in 2008).

MrT27
12-03-2007, 01:55 PM
Do you know if the DBacks came to the Sox asking about Paulie or if KW is shopping him around?

CHISOXFAN13
12-03-2007, 01:55 PM
I completely disagree

As do I. Pena would suddenly make our bullpen look very strong. Jackson is a solid first baseman, who lacks the power Konerko does, but still has decent numbers.

Throw in a back of the rotation starter like Owings, with the money saved for further improvements, and this team is starting to look decent.

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 01:55 PM
What do Owings and Pena throw btw? And would Ozzie think about batting Micah 8th in interleague games??:D:

The Immigrant
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
If this is true, it seems like Kenny has changed gears and is looking towards 2009.

I don't think so. We would get a lights out set up man to complement Linebrink, another "proven" starter for the back of the rotation, and a high OBP guy to play 1B - and all three combined make $11 million less than Konerko. This would be a win now, win even more later move for the Sox.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
Wow, Pena for the pen and send Owings somewhere else in the national league via a second trade so they can use his bat. Sounds pretty far off though, Konerko has a no trade doesn't he? And I thought he would only really leave for the Angels.


yes he does but he lives in Scottsdale

soxtalker
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
I'd hate to Paulie go, but that deal wouldn't be bad and I know Paulie certainly wouldn't mind playing in Phoenix

Paulie might not mind Phoenix, but wouldn't this cost him some bargaining power in the future? He's only a few months away from the 5/10 year status, and wouldn't this restart the clock?

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 01:57 PM
Do you know if the DBacks came to the Sox asking about Paulie or if KW is shopping him around?

Either wouldn't surprise me, Kenny has always said he's always trying to improve this team.

Just out of curiosity, doesn't Paulie have a NTC? If so would he waive it for Arizona?

oeo
12-03-2007, 01:58 PM
I don't think so. We would get a lights out set up man to complement Linebrink, another "proven" starter for the back of the rotation, and a high OBP guy to play 1B - and all three combined make $11 million less than Konerko. This would be a win now, win even more later move for the Sox.

Except Owings isn't 'proven' yet. I like him, but he's not a proven commodity yet.

Again, it would be a young team. I don't think it matches up with the Indians, Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels next year. The future would be a lot brighter than the current roster, though. Which I personally like because I don't think we stand a chance in hell to win a World Series in 2008.

Bill Naharodny
12-03-2007, 01:58 PM
I don't think so. We would get a lights out set up man to complement Linebrink, another "proven" starter for the back of the rotation, and a high OBP guy to play 1B - and all three combined make $11 million less than Konerko. This would be a win now, win even more later move for the Sox.

Also keep in mind: that infusion of young talent, fused with reducing payroll, would also make Williams a real player for Miguel Cabrera.

jsg-07
12-03-2007, 01:59 PM
yikes that trade really strengthens the sox for the future and frees up 12 mil (36 overall) for a possible Jones signing

This or something like this was my thought exactly. Trust me, I would probably cry to see PK go, but this still gives us someone young and solid at 1B, a good releif pitcher and a 4-5 starter with what looks to be solid potential. Not to mention we'd save a ton of money between these guys and Quentin in LF to actually make a reasonable run at Andruw Jones.

With this division getting younger and better every day, I personally think these are the types of moves the sox need to be making. Only time will tell and I could be wrong, but moves like this have me more excited than the current team + whatever other aging free agents we can over pay for.

Sargeant79
12-03-2007, 02:00 PM
As much as I would hate to give up Konerko, that would be a really nice haul for him.

My only concern is the signal it might send to our own free agents down the road who are considering taking hometown discounts. I believe this was debated around the time of Buehrle getting extended, but I would be concerned that it sends the wrong message: Take a hometown discount to stay and get dealt after two years of the deal.

seventyseven
12-03-2007, 02:03 PM
I think the opposite. This reminds me of the Carlos Lee trade. And we all know how that turned out.

Yep. We won the ****ing World Series and Carlos Lee became a FA.

goon
12-03-2007, 02:03 PM
Rockabilly!

Goose
12-03-2007, 02:04 PM
Paulie and mark are the cornerstones of this team. Any good team needs to have these types of players (good clubhouse guys as well as contributing vets on the field). Would KW risk making such a move that may disturb the team chemistry? I am always hesitant on trading your team "captains" for a youth movement. That, to me, is rebuilding.

If this does go down, why would anyone like Jones be wanting to come play for the Sox? It stinks of rebuilding - not immediate contention.

balke
12-03-2007, 02:04 PM
yes he does but he lives in Scottsdale

Very nice. I would love the Connor Jackson acquisition. I almost feel like Hawk mentioned the Sox were looking hard at him last season.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:05 PM
I do know that KW asked for Chris Young in return but was turn down..

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-03-2007, 02:05 PM
I will be pissed if they trade Paulie!

oeo
12-03-2007, 02:06 PM
I do know that KW asked for Chris Young in return but was turn down..

They probably laughed in his face.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
Paulie for Webb! :D:

DumpJerry
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
I do know that KW asked for Chris Young in return but was turn down..
Rockabilly=Otis.

Until I see something happens, this is the reality.

Goose
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
Rockabilly,

Get your source on the phone, keep him there, and start typing up the play-by-play for us.

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
Just out of curiosity Rockabilly, what would your source do if they knew you were spreading these possible deals to us? :D:

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:08 PM
Rockabilly=Otis.

Until I see something happens, this is the reality.


Hey I reported the Quentin deal before anyone even knew about it...

CHISOXFAN13
12-03-2007, 02:08 PM
Rockabilly=Otis.

Until I see something happens, this is the reality.

He was pretty spot on with the Quentin deal.

That's one more than Otis.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:09 PM
Just out of curiosity Rockabilly, what would your source do if they knew you were spreading these possible deals to us? :D:


As long as I don't use his name he doesn't mind or I wouldn't report a rumor

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-03-2007, 02:09 PM
Just out of curiosity Rockabilly, what would your source do if they knew you were spreading these possible deals to us? :D:

make up a false rumor like this one....

why would we make a trade with the same team twice in one day...

Tragg
12-03-2007, 02:10 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..
I like the idea of Micah Owings. Bout time the Sox get a Greenie!:D:

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:11 PM
make up a false rumor like this one....

why would we make a trade with the same team twice in one day...

Like I said in the orignal post this trade is no where close to being done it's being discussed...

HawkDJ
12-03-2007, 02:11 PM
I must say, I would be very happy with this deal as much as I would hate to see PK go.

KRS1
12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
why would we make a trade with the same team twice in one day...

If it makes sense for your team why not? Is there some industry standard against doing so?

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 02:13 PM
make up a false rumor like this one....

why would we make a trade with the same team twice in one day...

Well if this deal were to be true, I really wouldn't expect it today. Maybe not for a week or until Kenny gets his CF'er.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 02:13 PM
1. Rockabilly: you rock!
2. If this is true, it can mean nothing other than we are getting Miguel Cabrera!

AWESOME!

(praying)

Goose
12-03-2007, 02:14 PM
1. Rockabilly: you rock!
2. If this is true, it can mean nothing other than we are getting Miguel Cabrera!

AWESOME!

(praying)

Why do you say that? I am not trying to say that KW isn't going to go after him, but why would it mean that we are getting him?

DumpJerry
12-03-2007, 02:16 PM
Hey I reported the Quentin deal before anyone even knew about it...

He was pretty spot on with the Quentin deal.

That's one more than Otis.
While Rock's thread about the trade was started an hour or so before the story appeared on the Tribune's website, how do we know if Rock doesn't have a friend in AZ who heard it on local sports radio there as word came leaking out?

My dead Grandma has a better track record predicting trades than Otis.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Sweet. And on days Owings pitches we can use a DH for Owens. :redneckI suspect you're being sarcastic, but in case you're not, you cannot DH for anyone but the pitcher.

dickallen15
12-03-2007, 02:17 PM
He was pretty spot on with the Quentin deal.

That's one more than Otis.
Otis had the Sox trading for Cattanato a couple of years ago. He knew for a few years the Sox were looking for an OF. Give credit where credit is due. Otis is the goods.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Why do you say that? I am not trying to say that KW isn't going to go after him, but why would it mean that we are getting him?
Let's see...

Kenny has at least $15mil to add to the payroll.

He's dumping a $12 mil player and an A ball prospect for a bunch of blue chippers ready to play now.

Clearing $27 million...

Miguel Cabrera is on the market and the Angels, like always, are overprotecting their mediocre prospects...

*Edit: I'll also add that right now Chris Carter IMO is a better prospect than Nich Adenhart who the Angels are moaning about having to give up for MIGUEL CABRERA! What a bunch of morons... Yet, Kenny trades Carter. Who is to say he wouldn't ship out Fields + Danks/Gio/Floyd + Anderson/Sweeney + an AZ player?

Kenny wants to contend...

I see no other possibilty!!!

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:18 PM
While Rock's thread about the trade was started an hour or so before the story appeared on the Tribune's website, how do we know if Rock doesn't have a friend in AZ who heard it on local sports radio there as word came leaking out?

My dead Grandma has a better track record predicting trades than Otis.


If this was reported on a AZ radio station before I said anything how come no major baseball writers reported this like Scott Merkin or even Bruce Levine..

dickallen15
12-03-2007, 02:18 PM
I suspect you're being sarcastic, but in case you're not, you cannot DH for anyone but the pitcher.

Wrong. You can DH for any one spot in the line-up.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 02:18 PM
Otis had the Sox trading for Cattanato a couple of years ago. He knew for a few years the Sox were looking for an OF. Give credit where credit is due. Otis is the goods.
Don't rip on Otis. He probably gets his info from the same guy Peter Gammons gets his info from.

KRS1
12-03-2007, 02:19 PM
What do Owings and Pena throw btw? And would Ozzie think about batting Micah 8th in interleague games??:D:

Micah- 88-92 MPH fastball, with good two-seam movement and some downward tilt, occasionally touches 93-94 with his 4-seam but it mostly sits around 90-92. Low-mid 80's slider. High 70's change with good deceptive motion and two-seam movement.

Pena- 94-97 MPH fastball with natural two-seam movement. 86-89MPH snap dragon and a 80 MPH curve.

Over By There
12-03-2007, 02:21 PM
Otis may have never gotten anything right, but I still welcomed his threads. Makes the winter go by quicker. :smile:

Carry on, Rock, so far so good. :cool:

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Wrong. You can DH for any one spot in the line-up.Wrong.

From MLB.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp):
6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule.
(a) In the event of inter-league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows:
1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team.
2. In All-Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree.
(b) The Rule provides as follows:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.
Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity.
The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.
A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run.
A Designated Hitter is “locked” into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.
Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the Designated Hitter.)
Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter’s turn to bat.Quite clear to me.

Rocky Soprano
12-03-2007, 02:25 PM
I must say, I would be very happy with this deal as much as I would hate to see PK go.

So would I, do it KW!

Taliesinrk
12-03-2007, 02:26 PM
Wrong. You can DH for any one spot in the line-up.

Wrong. Unless you're still playing High School Ball..

EDIT: Looks like I was beaten to the punch

RoobarbPie
12-03-2007, 02:28 PM
I think he meant Owings could be the DH since he had 4 HR's last year in 60 AB's. Pretty good for a pitcher...

Should have been in teal though since we've got Thome.

DeadMoney
12-03-2007, 02:28 PM
So would I, do it KW!

Count me in on possibly being 'sad to see Paulie go', but perfectly fine with the return (depending on what that is, of course). As for the rumor mentioned here, that'd be OK with me!

voodoochile
12-03-2007, 02:33 PM
I like Paulie, but how the Sox could turn this down would be beyond me. Three MLB players for one and two need spots filled with no major loss of production from the position they traded?

Jackson even stole two bases, can he lead off?

Try not to snicker if you get the chance to finalize this deal, Kenny...

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 02:38 PM
A) Do not reveal your source. You nailed the 1st deal well- before I heard it anywhere else.
B) I love Paulie. He is my favorite all time member of the Sox. However I think deal would be great for the team. Jackson is a solid player who could benefit from The CEll. Micah looks to be the real deal an could possibly open the door to moving Contreras (Jose, Phillips, Gio, Floyd for Bedard?). I'm not up on Pena but it could work. This would also open money for Jones and an extension for Bedard.:D:

AzureJazzMan
12-03-2007, 02:39 PM
It wouldn't suprise me, if Heath Phillips (recently DFA'd and all) were included in this deal, possibly another prospect to balance the scales.

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 02:39 PM
Wrong. Unless you're still playing High School Ball..

EDIT: Looks like I was beaten to the punch
Well then Uribe would have a place on the team. He plays SS on the days Micah would pitch.,:redneck

Chicken Dinner
12-03-2007, 02:42 PM
Anyone with a Konerko jersey is ****ting their pants.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
12-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Anyone with a Konerko jersey is ****ting their pants.

2005 World Seires Konerko jersey here....

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 02:44 PM
Anyone with a Konerko jersey is ****ting their pants.
I have 1. It would just join the list of Jerseys owned and then made useless within 2 seasons of purchase (Maggs, Moss, Flutie:D:, Warrick:whiner:,)

Palehose Pete
12-03-2007, 02:44 PM
Anyone with a Konerko jersey is ****ting their pants.

It's the chance you take. Wearing the jersey depends on how the player leaves the team. For instance, I'm not going to wear my Maggs jersey. If Konerko gets traded, I'll still wear it.

voodoochile
12-03-2007, 02:47 PM
It's the chance you take. Wearing the jersey depends on how the player leaves the team. For instance, I'm not going to wear my Maggs jersey. If Konerko gets traded, I'll still wear it.

Nothing wrong with owning a Konerko jersey still. He did help the team win a championship and had a lengthy run with the team even if he doesn't finish his career here.

Now a Maggs jersey that would truly suck...

drewcifer
12-03-2007, 02:50 PM
Anyone with a Konerko jersey is ****ting their pants.

Meh, I got one. Would still wear it. This deal would helps the team tremendously, though and that's more important to me.

salty99
12-03-2007, 02:51 PM
Rockabilly=Roland Hemond?

spawn
12-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Nothing wrong with owning a Konerko jersey still. He did help the team win a championship and had a lengthy run with the team even if he doesn't finish his career here.

Now a Maggs jersey that would truly suck...
Tell me about it. I also have a Ray Durham jersey and Chris Singleton as well...:(:

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 02:54 PM
Rockabilly=Roland Hemond?

nope not even close.. I wish I did know him he is a great guy from what I hear..


I also have a PK jersey and if he is traded I will still wear his jersey with pride

esbrechtel
12-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Rockabilly=Roland Hemond?
HA :redneck

I'd hate to see Paulie go especially since he is one of our leaders and was apparently our Capitan (I donno how you trade a captain...) Probably one of my favorite sox players ever, I will miss him but if it makes us contenders for the near future I'm all for it....

soxtalker
12-03-2007, 02:57 PM
Most of the posts have looked upon this suggested deal favorably. This is a bit strange, which makes me wonder if this might not look so good to the Diamondbacks. Does anyone know their team well enough to give an analysis of their perspective?

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 02:59 PM
It's the chance you take. Wearing the jersey depends on how the player leaves the team. For instance, I'm not going to wear my Maggs jersey. If Konerko gets traded, I'll still wear it.

Me and my friends still have our middle reliever t-shirts (much better as opposed to the jersey's since they were only about $15-$20). Masset, Aardsma, and MacDougal. I think we kind of jumped the gun there. Hopefully for my sake Masset can rebound and turn into a reliable starter.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 03:00 PM
Most of the posts have looked upon this suggested deal favorably. This is a bit strange, which makes me wonder if this might not look so good to the Diamondbacks. Does anyone know their team well enough to give an analysis of their perspective?

from what I hear is that the D Back's have a bitter taste in their mouth about getting swept in the NLCS and they think that PK would put them over the top

JermaineDye05
12-03-2007, 03:00 PM
Most of the posts have looked upon this suggested deal favorably. This is a bit strange, which makes me wonder if this might not look so good to the Diamondbacks. Does anyone know their team well enough to give an analysis of their perspective?

The D-Backs might do this because they lack a veteran pressence in the clubhouse. Pauly is a good quiet leader and has post season experience and has shown to deliver in the clutch. He's also a big power bat which I think the D-Backs lack.

voodoochile
12-03-2007, 03:00 PM
Tell me about it. I also have a Ray Durham jersey and Chris Singleton as well...:(:

I saw a Raiders' fan at the bar when the Bears were playing them. He was wearing a Moss jersey. He had modified it with white electrical tape to add a Spanish swear word questioning Moss's sexual orientation at the end of Moss's name.

I thought it was rather amusing...

DumpJerry
12-03-2007, 03:03 PM
Now a Maggs jersey that would truly suck...
At the Clubhouse Sale this weekend, they were selling Maggs tee shirts from 2004. How they held onto them this long is a mystery to me. I wonder if any of them sold.

Meanwhile, everyone here is acting like this Konerko thing is true. Every year we get treated to a "Konerko to Arizone to be closer to his home" rumor.

spiffie
12-03-2007, 03:06 PM
I'm worried something might be wrong with Frater, as this thread is nearing tomato length and he hasn't weighed in yet.

voodoochile
12-03-2007, 03:07 PM
At the Clubhouse Sale this weekend, they were selling Maggs tee shirts from 2004. How they held onto them this long is a mystery to me. I wonder if any of them sold.

Meanwhile, everyone here is acting like this Konerko thing is true. Every year we get treated to a "Konerko to Arizone to be closer to his home" rumor.

Hey, if the Sox can make this happen, it would be great.

I don't believe this is all there is too it though. I have to believe the Sox would have to throw in a prospect or two and at least one of them would have to be one of our close to MLB ready pitchers (Floyd?).

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2007, 03:08 PM
Well...I don't know how I feel about this...I'm going to reserve comment until its official.

spiffie
12-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Hey, if the Sox can make this happen, it would be great.

I don't believe this is all there is too it though. I have to believe the Sox would have to throw in a prospect or two and at least one of them would have to be one of our close to MLB ready pitchers (Floyd?).
There are very few deals I can imagine where Gavin Floyd is the deal breaker. Perhaps if the drive-thru at McDonalds wants Floyd in return for a free super-sizing of KW's drink I might hope for them to decline. Otherwise, wrap him the **** up, put a bow on him, and UPS him to whatever team wants him.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 03:10 PM
Most of the posts have looked upon this suggested deal favorably. This is a bit strange, which makes me wonder if this might not look so good to the Diamondbacks. Does anyone know their team well enough to give an analysis of their perspective?
Others may know the system better, but I would like the move because...

1. It makes Miguel Cabrera and an extension for Miguel Cabrera a much better posibility. I think if KW offered Fields + Owings + Anderson/Sweeney + Danks/Floyd/Gio and maybe even a big potential/small results arm such as Aardsma or Masset, we'd easily become the frontrunners.

2. A Pena acquistion could open the door for a Jenks trade (I highly doubt the Sox would do it, but it would be nice to use Jenks for a young, middle of the order type bat)

Imagine Cabrera at third, Cabrera at SS, Richar at 2B, Jackson at 1B, with an OF of Dye-(acquistion)-Quentin.... that's a much better team. Or, maybe get creative and offer something like Jackson to the Royals for Teahen. Put Teahen at 3B, Cabrera at 1B and improve the defense. Then use Jenks in a deal for an ace and extend him with the money saved. Anyway, I'm just dreaming, but I think a Konerko trade with a REASONABLE return like this (not the crap that people suggest from the Angels) opens the door for many other moves.

jsg-07
12-03-2007, 03:10 PM
Hey, if the Sox can make this happen, it would be great.

I don't believe this is all there is too it though. I have to believe the Sox would have to throw in a prospect or two and at least one of them would have to be one of our close to MLB ready pitchers (Floyd?).

Even if it is Floyd, I still think I would do it. This way the sox get a replacement for Floyd (who I would think is better than Floyd), Solid Bullpen help, a decent first basemen (all of which are 25 and would be locked up by the sox for a while) and we free up $10+ million to make a run at Andruw Jones, or hell, even a Carlos Silva to make sure we have a strong rotation not relying on too many youngsters and / or an aging Jose.

EMel9281
12-03-2007, 03:12 PM
Even if it is Floyd, I still think I would do it. This way they get a replacement for Floyd who I would think is better than him. Solid Bullpen help, a decent first basemen (all of which are 25 and would be locked up by the sox for a while) and we free up $10+ million to make a run at Andruw Jones, or hell, even a Carlos Silva to make sure we have a strong rotation not relying on too many youngsters and / or an aging Jose.

:puking: No, thanks...

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 03:14 PM
There are very few deals I can imagine where Gavin Floyd is the deal breaker. Perhaps if the drive-thru at McDonalds wants Floyd in return for a free super-sizing of KW's drink I might hope for them to decline. Otherwise, wrap him the **** up, put a bow on him, and UPS him to whatever team wants him.
Gavin actually showed some real flashes at the end of last year. Kids with arms like his don't grow on trees. If we dealt him we'd get a decent return straight up IMO, but whoever bought would be buying low. I think he's more than capable of having a career as a solid #4/#5 in the bigs. Watch for the contracts that Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse will sign this offseason. Then think about Gavin Floyd's value as a #4/#5.

jsg-07
12-03-2007, 03:18 PM
:puking: No, thanks...

Why not, I mean I would not give him crazy money or anything but if the price was right, a career 4.3-ish ERA in the american league with 180-200 IP / year in the last few years??? Sounds like a decent 4th / 5th starter to me (again, assuming he is not going to command too much money)

Edit: regardless.. this is sort of a thread hijack so I will leave it at that.

EMel9281
12-03-2007, 03:18 PM
I like the deal. I think Konerko is too streaky. Yeah, he may put up good season numbers, but the streakiness hurts. I remember the rumor last year about Connor Jackson (that AZ was putting him in LF for the Sox), and it seems like KW is adamant about getting him. Owings would solve a potential hole in the rotation or can be fished for someone else. Now, if KW would trade that darn Juan Uribe guy...

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 03:18 PM
Not only would we get younger, but money would be there to add Andruw Jones to make up for PK's power numbers and fill the CF void. Cabrera leads off, Jackson 2nd, Jones 3rd, Thome 4th, Dye etc etc etc.

EMel9281
12-03-2007, 03:20 PM
Why not, I mean I would not give him crazy money or anything but if the price was right, a career 4.3-ish ERA in the american league with 180-200 IP / year in the last few years??? Sounds like a decent 4th / 5th starter to me (again, assuming he is not going to command too much money)

Some dumb team is going to OVERpay for him and watch him get lit up like a Christmas goose on the 4th of July. He may show flashes of brillance at times, but they are merely flashes. He's going to want the payday because that is where the market is at now. I'd be more content with Floyd instead. He's cheaper...

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 03:20 PM
has there been any Sox rumors reported in Chicago today

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 03:21 PM
has there been any Sox rumors reported in Chicago today
Not at all why what you hearing now?

jcw218
12-03-2007, 03:21 PM
Why not, I mean I would not give him crazy money or anything but if the price was right, a career 4.3-ish ERA in the american league with 180-200 IP / year in the last few years??? Sounds like a decent 4th / 5th starter to me (again, assuming he is not going to command too much money)

There in lies the rub...if the price is right. Since he's probably the best, or one of the best, free agent starting pitchers on the market, the price will probably be similar to what Jason Marquis and others got last year.

spiffie
12-03-2007, 03:23 PM
Gavin actually showed some real flashes at the end of last year. Kids with arms like his don't grow on trees. If we dealt him we'd get a decent return straight up IMO, but whoever bought would be buying low. I think he's more than capable of having a career as a solid #4/#5 in the bigs. Watch for the contracts that Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse will sign this offseason. Then think about Gavin Floyd's value as a #4/#5.
Carlos Silva has a career ERA the same basically as Javy Vazquez. Outside of his one terrible year in 2006 he has a career ERA as a starter of 3.99. If Gavin Floyd ever puts up a year in the majors as a starter with a better than league average ERA, let alone being tied for fifth in the league like Silve was in 2005, I will eat a bug.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 03:24 PM
Not at all why what you hearing now?

lol nothing new

Domeshot17
12-03-2007, 03:24 PM
Ehhh Im 50/50 on this

Jackson is a poor mans Lyle Overbay. Solid contact, better gap hitter then power hitter, power limited actually (sub 20 homers from 1b is tough to live with). Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I think the problem is also you are going to scare away veteran free agents with a deal like this. You are showing you don't have the loyalty to let your team 'captain' get to his 10/5 status, and that a few years into his long term deal you can trade him. Well if you can trade Konerko what would stop you from trading Andruw Jones?

Its not the message you want to send to free agents.

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 03:31 PM
Ehhh Im 50/50 on this

Jackson is a poor mans Lyle Overbay. Solid contact, better gap hitter then power hitter, power limited actually (sub 20 homers from 1b is tough to live with). Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I think the problem is also you are going to scare away veteran free agents with a deal like this. You are showing you don't have the loyalty to let your team 'captain' get to his 10/5 status, and that a few years into his long term deal you can trade him. Well if you can trade Konerko what would stop you from trading Andruw Jones?

Its not the message you want to send to free agents.
--Jackson's numbers as far as power could increase a bit here as our RF is a nice pull spot. As far as Owings and his IP and stats. Remember he is a rookie and he was tossed into an intense race in the national league. There lies low IP could indicate a 3-3 game in the 6th with Owings coming up and 2nd and 3rd on the bases. Naturally in the NL you would probably PH there.
--As far as veteran impact you could be right. However if Kenny can convince said veterans that this deal was made A) to better the team to win and B) to offer him his contract it might change the Vets mind.

Flight #24
12-03-2007, 03:32 PM
Interesting potential multi-stage plan if these rumors ar true.

If indeed you can trade Konerko for Jackson+Owings+Pena, you could work the following:

1) Fields+Owings+Gio+Sweeney/Anderson to FLA for Cabrera.
2) Sign Jones to 3/$50. Or Rowand to 5/$60. Or maybe Fukudome to 3/$35.
3) Crede+Egbert to Angels for Figgins (maybe this happens in ST once Joe's shown he's healthy).

Sox lineup: Figgins (3B-5) - Cabrera (SS-9) - Cabrera (1B-~10) - Thome (DH-8) - Dye (RF-9) - AJ (C-6) - Jones/Rowand/Fukudome (CF-16) - Quentin (RF) - Richar (2B).
Rotation: Buehrle(14)-Vazquez(12)-Contreras(10)-Danks-Floyd/Broadway.
Bullpen: Jenks - Linebrink(5) - Pena - Thornton - Wasserman - Logan.

Total payroll is around $108M. You also have Thome's deal expiring after '08 and Dye's after that, so in the event that you need some cash, you free it up. And you still have some young SPs like DLS/Poreda that you can hoard to replace Contreras with. The team's much younger and still solid.

This type of plan, while difficult to implement, is the kind that can enable the Sox to rebuild on the fly and wait out the improvement of the farm system.

jcw218
12-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Interesting potential multi-stage plan if these rumors ar true.

If indeed you can trade Konerko for Jackson+Owings+Pena, you could work the following:

1) Fields+Owings+Gio+Sweeney/Anderson to FLA for Cabrera.
2) Sign Jones to 3/$50. Or Rowand to 5/$60. Or maybe Fukudome to 3/$35.
3) Crede+Egbert to Angels for Figgins (maybe this happens in ST once Joe's shown he's healthy).

Sox lineup: Figgins (3B-5) - Cabrera (SS-9) - Cabrera (1B-~10) - Thome (DH-8) - Dye (RF-9) - AJ (C-6) - Jones/Rowand/Fukudome (CF-16) - Quentin (RF) - Richar (2B).
Rotation: Buehrle(14)-Vazquez(12)-Contreras(10)-Danks-Floyd/Broadway.
Bullpen: Jenks - Linebrink(5) - Pena - Thornton - Wasserman - Logan.

Total payroll is around $108M. You also have Thome's deal expiring after '08 and Dye's after that, so in the event that you need some cash, you free it up. And you still have some young SPs like DLS/Poreda that you can hoard to replace Contreras with. The team's much younger and still solid.

This type of plan, while difficult to implement, is the kind that can enable the Sox to rebuild on the fly and wait out the improvement of the farm system.

I think you meant that Quentin would play Left. Where would Jackson be?

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 03:39 PM
Carlos Silva has a career ERA the same basically as Javy Vazquez. Outside of his one terrible year in 2006 he has a career ERA as a starter of 3.99. If Gavin Floyd ever puts up a year in the majors as a starter with a better than league average ERA, let alone being tied for fifth in the league like Silve was in 2005, I will eat a bug.
You really want to eat a bug one day don't you?

Silva has an incredibally small K ratio, a horrible H/9 ratio, and the only reason his career WHIP (1.37) is where it is at is because he's got an very low walk ratio. His ERA is a deceiving, and he's 29 next year, so he's basically topped out. This costs $10mil+ in this market.

Even though it's a small sample size, Gavin cut his walk rate in half at the MLB level this year from prior stops. His hit rate is still high and his K rate is still not exactly eye-popping, but they are leaps and bounds better than Silvas. Plus Gavin has better stuff and is 24, meaning even though he still isn't proven, he has a much, much better chance of becoming better than Silva does. Plus he's making the league minimum and under team control for quite a while.

I really think Silva is going to vastly disappoint his new team unless he moves to a pitchers park, preferrably in the NL. Gavin OTOH has upside.

psyclonis
12-03-2007, 03:40 PM
1) Fields+Owings+Gio+Sweeney/Anderson to FLA for Cabrera.


Thats a lot to give up for 2 years of Cabrera (wheres hes set to make ARod money in 2010+)

thomas35forever
12-03-2007, 03:42 PM
You really want to eat a bug one day don't you?

Silva has an incredibally small K ratio, a horrible H/9 ratio, and the only reason his career WHIP (1.37) is where it is at is because he's got an very low walk ratio. His ERA is a deceiving, and he's 29 next year, so he's basically topped out. This costs $10mil+ in this market.

Even though it's a small sample size, Gavin cut his walk rate in half at the MLB level this year from prior stops. His hit rate is still high and his K rate is still not exactly eye-popping, but they are leaps and bounds better than Silvas. Plus Gavin has better stuff and is 24, meaning even though he still isn't proven, he has a much, much better chance of becoming better than Silva does. Plus he's making the league minimum and under team control for quite a while.

I really think Silva is going to vastly disappoint his new team unless he moves to a pitchers park, preferrably in the NL. Gavin OTOH has upside.
Exactly. I've only seen Silva while he's gone against us, but I can tell by those outings alone that I would not want him on my team. I also agree that the NL is the only place for him to go. He's not gonna survive if he stays in the AL.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 03:43 PM
Ehhh Im 50/50 on this

Jackson is a poor mans Lyle Overbay. Solid contact, better gap hitter then power hitter, power limited actually (sub 20 homers from 1b is tough to live with). Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I think the problem is also you are going to scare away veteran free agents with a deal like this. You are showing you don't have the loyalty to let your team 'captain' get to his 10/5 status, and that a few years into his long term deal you can trade him. Well if you can trade Konerko what would stop you from trading Andruw Jones?

Its not the message you want to send to free agents.

Personally, I hope that if this deal goes through Pena is the centerpiece because he could make for a fine closer. The other parts would be very useful in acquiring certain cheap-salaried ballplayers from other small market organizations.

voodoochile
12-03-2007, 03:46 PM
There are very few deals I can imagine where Gavin Floyd is the deal breaker. Perhaps if the drive-thru at McDonalds wants Floyd in return for a free super-sizing of KW's drink I might hope for them to decline. Otherwise, wrap him the **** up, put a bow on him, and UPS him to whatever team wants him.

I think he's worth a little more than that on potential alone. Not saying he's the deal breaker, merely saying I doubt the D'backs would give up that much inexpensive MLB talent for one high priced first baseman no matter how great of a leader he is. I'd think they'd want more. I doubt the Sox would part with their top tier pitching prospects as throw ins, but would be willing to part ways with some of the b-tier prospects of which Floyd is one and one with some experience already on the major league level including a pretty solid September after being called up when Contreras fell of the map this summer.

Again, I'm not saying Floyd is all that, but he's at least a bag of chips...

KRS1
12-03-2007, 03:51 PM
Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park.



Chase field is not a "big time pitchers park" at all. Please read this article and reconsider your statement.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/0804dbxmain0804.html


Second highest park in terms of elevation(Coors is #1), thin, hot, dry air that not only let balls travel much further, but also makes it more difficult for pitchers to get movement on their pitches, and can really mess with their "stuff." Huge hitters eye is another batters advantage, and the only thing that would really make it a pitchers park is the left-center to right-center dimensions which are basically nullified by the air/ball travel.

Having said that(uh I hate saying that :tongue:), I am not very impressed with Micah either.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 03:55 PM
I think he's worth a little more than that on potential alone. Not saying he's the deal breaker, merely saying I doubt the D'backs would give up that much inexpensive MLB talent for one high priced first baseman no matter how great of a leader he is. I'd think they'd want more. I doubt the Sox would part with their top tier pitching prospects as throw ins, but would be willing to part ways with some of the b-tier prospects of which Floyd is one and one with some experience already on the major league level including a pretty solid September after being called up when Contreras fell of the map this summer.

Again, I'm not saying Floyd is all that, but he's at least a bag of chips...
I think this is good, fair value for Paulie who some really underrate. If you look around the league, not many 1B out there can match his whole package, both in terms of offensive production and defense. There's no question that AZ would be getting the best player in the deal. Owings is not an ace or a stud, more like about a #3 guy. He put up some nice numbers as a rookie last year, but he's not a top-of-the-rotation starter. Jackson is your high OBP, mediocre power player at a power position. He's useful, but he's generally not the type of player you target there. The guy with the most potential is Pena, and even if he becomes a very good closer one day, a productive starting position player who is out there for 145+ games per year is more valuable any way you slice it. So, I think we'd be getting good value and then we'd have some parts to move. But I wouldn't think the Sox should add anything to this unless it is one of our pitchers who aren't going to make the roster. We have a ton of those guys, and Phillips would work.

Flight #24
12-03-2007, 03:58 PM
I think you meant that Quentin would play Left. Where would Jackson be?

DOH!

I suppose if FLA likes him he could go there, or you save Egbert and package him with Crede for Figgins. Or you play him in LF while Quentin rehabs, then after '08, one of them moves to RF and one to LF with Dye moving to DH (or the 3 of them rotate through the 2 OF and DH slots).

In general, a trade of Konerko+prospects for Cabrera is a great one for the Sox. The problem is that FLA isn't interested, so if you can get enough top-shelf talent in return to either trade along with some of your own for Miguel, or to replace the gutting that a Cabrera trade will take, that's a good swap.

I'm not down on Paulie, but Cabrera's younger & better. So if you can in effect swap him+Gio+mid-tier prospect for Miggy, you do it in a heartbeat (so you send one of Jackson/Fields along with and keep the other).

ChiSoxFan35
12-03-2007, 03:58 PM
Excellent work Rockabodaddy! Probably better inside info than most guys who get paid to do this stuff

ChiWavDave
12-03-2007, 04:02 PM
I would love this deal if it happens. I like PK as much as anybody and will always appreciate his contribution to 2005, but we need to move the slow station to station guys out and infuse more youth/speed into the lineup. Also for 2 years in a row KW supposedly went to Paulie at the deadline and asked if he thought we needed help, and Paulie said go with the team as comprised, I don't know how much if any influence this had over KW (I doubt much) but I think PK was too comfortable in the clubhouse and we need that edge/tension to be successful IMHO.

DumpJerry
12-03-2007, 04:04 PM
has there been any Sox rumors reported in Chicago today
No. Maybe they need to check WSI.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 04:16 PM
No. Maybe they need to check WSI.


WSI is the best site out there to read about Sox news & rumors...

getonbckthr
12-03-2007, 04:19 PM
WSI is the best site out there to read about Sox news & rumors...
Call your "source" for an update.

SABRSox
12-03-2007, 04:20 PM
WSI is the best site out there to read about Sox news & rumors...

Rumors, yes.

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 04:24 PM
Call your "source" for an update.

If anything happens between AZ & Sox i'm sure he will give me a call with an update because of me being a die hard Sox fan and that we grew up together as friends

Flight #24
12-03-2007, 04:31 PM
Thats a lot to give up for 2 years of Cabrera (wheres hes set to make ARod money in 2010+)

Supposedly the Marlins have said they want 4 strong, MLB ready guys. Remember - you're talking about one of the best hitters in the game, who's only 24!!!!

You get this guy for 2 more arb years and then you pay him big bucks.

That's a deal, so it'll take a ton.

Tragg
12-03-2007, 05:28 PM
Supposedly the Marlins have said they want 4 strong, MLB ready guys. Remember - you're talking about one of the best hitters in the game, who's only 24!!!!

You get this guy for 2 more arb years and then you pay him big bucks.

That's a deal, so it'll take a ton.
That may be what they want, but with as many holes as the Sox have, it's us who needs 4 MLB ready players.
We essentially trade Konerko and 2 great pitching prospects for Cabera.
He's going to take an A Rod contract to keep - well, 80% of an A Rod contract.

santo=dorf
12-03-2007, 05:33 PM
Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I'd love for our rookie pitchers to put up numbers like that.

8-8, 4.30 ERA, 1.28 WHIP. He only had one bad month
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7936/splits;_ylt=AtdpmDydJfuLMI6ubDDwKyOFCLcF

gr8mexico
12-03-2007, 05:34 PM
I would like this trade if the Sox can some how get the Dbacks to include Orlando Hudson in the trade package.

SoxyStu
12-03-2007, 05:35 PM
yes he does but he lives in Scottsdale

Thanks for the info, but I just don't put much credence into the whole "close to home" bit. PK has been building a house in the 'burbs of Chicago for a wee bit now.

He does have a limited no trade clause. However, I doubt, for the reason you point out (having roots in AZ), AZ is listed as a team PK would void a trade to.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 05:40 PM
That may be what they want, but that's an insane price.
We essentially trade Konerko and 2 great prospects for Cabera.
Pass.
I don't think Quentin or Pena would be part of the deal.

Think maybe Fields since they'll need a 3B + Anderson/Sweeney since they need a CF + Jackson to play 1B + Owings/Gio/Danks/Floyd/Egbert/Broadway. Or if they want two pitchers, then we could do Fields + Anderson/Sweeney + 2 of those pitchers. And we have a bunch of throw-ins too. I think we could get Miguel if we make this move. It's a lot of talent, but we're getting the best player in the deal and one of the best hitters in baseball. Pretty much every SP listed has a ceiling topping out as a #3 starter or less, Jackson doesn't have much power, Anderson and Sweeney are out of the picture now if we keep Quentin, and Fields is the main thing we're losing. But, we're upgrading his bat considerably.

gr8mexico
12-03-2007, 05:41 PM
Thanks for the info, but I just don't put much credence into the whole "close to home" bit. PK has been building a house in the 'burbs of Chicago for a wee bit now.

He does have a limited no trade clause. However, I doubt, for the reason you point out (having roots in AZ), AZ is listed as a team PK would void a trade to.
How do you know that AZ is in the list of places he doesnt want to go? He might change his mind by the way they have been playing

Tragg
12-03-2007, 05:44 PM
I don't think Quentin or Pena would be part of the deal.

Think maybe Fields since they'll need a 3B + Anderson/Sweeney since they need a CF + Jackson to play 1B + Owings/Gio/Danks/Floyd/Egbert/Broadway. Or if they want two pitchers, then we could do Fields + Anderson/Sweeney + 2 of those pitchers. And we have a bunch of throw-ins too. I think we could get Miguel if we make this move. It's a lot of talent, but we're getting the best player in the deal and one of the best hitters in baseball. Pretty much every SP listed has a ceiling topping out as a #3 starter or less, Jackson doesn't have much power, Anderson and Sweeney are out of the picture now if we keep Quentin, and Fields is the main thing we're losing. But, we're upgrading his bat considerably.
What pitching prospect do we have that doesn't top out at #3? They all seem to when it's trading time.
Anyway, I thought Konerko and Fields and 2 pitchers and 1 of our outfielders was part of the deal (lot of confidence in Quinton - how's his performance different than Anderson's or Torrebo's 3 years hence?).

I do hope the Sox start using the pitching prospects, be it trade or bullpen. Last year they were still pitching Bukvich and Meyers when the season was long gone.

oeo
12-03-2007, 05:46 PM
I'd love for our rookie pitchers to put up numbers like that.

8-8, 4.30 ERA, 1.28 WHIP. He only had one bad month
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7936/splits;_ylt=AtdpmDydJfuLMI6ubDDwKyOFCLcF

Don't you see, though, he did it in the NL, in a weak division. If our guys were in the NL West, they would have been Cy Young candidates.

SoxyStu
12-03-2007, 05:49 PM
How do you know that AZ is in the list of places he doesnt want to go? He might change his mind by the way they have been playing

If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I agree with Rock that he probably DIDN'T list AZ as a place he would void.

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2007, 05:53 PM
I'm worried something might be wrong with Frater, as this thread is nearing tomato length and he hasn't weighed in yet.

I was at work. :tongue:

I'd do the rumored Arizona deal, although the Angels will be disappointed. :tongue:

Chicken Dinner
12-03-2007, 05:53 PM
If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I agree with Rock that he probably DIDN'T list AZ as a place he would void.

It's only 6 teams.


His new deal calls for him to receive $12 million annually. Chicago agreed to a limited no-trade clause that states he can't be dealt to six specified teams without his permission.

Lukin13
12-03-2007, 05:54 PM
I can't see an Arizona club that was clicking on all cylinders the second half of last season wanting to completely revamp their team.

I am gonna say no way to this deal.

SoxyStu
12-03-2007, 05:55 PM
It's only 6 teams.


His new deal calls for him to receive $12 million annually. Chicago agreed to a limited no-trade clause that states he can't be dealt to six specified teams without his permission.

Aye...Din has the specifics.

UserNameBlank
12-03-2007, 05:57 PM
What pitching prospect do we have that doesn't top out at #3? They all seem to when it's trading time.
Anyway, I thought Konerko and Fields and 2 pitchers and 1 of our outfielders was part of the deal (lot of confidence in Quinton - how's his performance different than Anderson's or Torrebo's 3 years hence?).

I do hope the Sox start using the pitching prospects, be it trade or bullpen. Last year they were still pitching Bukvich and Meyers when the season was long gone.
Well, it's one thing if they are asking for DLS because he does have ace potential. But if you look at the pitchers the Marlins are asking the Angels for (Adenhart and Santana) you're basically getting the same thing (#3's). Adenhart for some reason is given the ceiling of an ace by some scouts, but that's just hype IMO. Everything I can find on him says he doesn't have the stuff that screams true ace and his numbers don't back up that assertion at all. Santana has a ton of potential but has issues with his head.

So, while there is a bit more potential on the Angels' side, you also have the drawbacks of Adenhart not being ready and Santana with issues. I think if we have to match this, then two of our pitchers will do the trick, and we can make up ground somewhere by offering a throw-in as well if we have to. Anderson/Sweeney is at least as good as Mathis if not better, and Kendrick will be an entirely different player than Fields, but they both are going to be superstars.

Anyway, we'd be basically upgrading Fields at the cost of a couple #3's and some projects that won't make our team. We have the SP to deal so we should do it. I'll be sooo pissed if KW makes this Konerko deal and doesn't make a good enough run at Cabrera, because he is the type of player that we normally can never acquire.

Tragg
12-03-2007, 06:05 PM
Anyway, we'd be basically upgrading Fields at the cost of a couple #3's and some projects that won't make our team. We have the SP to deal so we should do it. I'll be sooo pissed if KW makes this Konerko deal and doesn't make a good enough run at Cabrera, because he is the type of player that we normally can never acquire.
Good point - DLS is our highest ceiling prospect. He should be a no go. I guess we don't have a position one of those really.

Is there some legitimate basis for thinking the deal with Arizona will happen? I think I like that part of the deal - although it will leave us deprived offensively still.

JB98
12-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Only a good deal if the Sox use the money saved to bring in a top-notch outfielder.

Taliesinrk
12-03-2007, 06:13 PM
So if the Marlins trade doesnt happen with us, is it safe to assume (b/c it seems as though everyone is) that Quentin will start for us next year?

btrain929
12-03-2007, 06:15 PM
So if the Marlins trade doesnt happen with us, is it safe to assume (b/c it seems as though everyone is) that Quentin will start for us next year?

I'm pretty sure this trade was made (if not to package in another trade...) for him to be one of our starting corner OF'ers in '08 and beyond.

Tragg
12-03-2007, 06:25 PM
I'm pretty sure this trade was made (if not to package in another trade...) for him to be one of our starting corner OF'ers in '08 and beyond.

How do we know that?
How's he different than Anderson or someone like that?

the1tab
12-03-2007, 06:29 PM
He could be a DH against lefties... LOL

sullythered
12-03-2007, 06:33 PM
How's he different than Anderson or someone like that?
Way way way better offensive numbers in the minors.

oeo
12-03-2007, 06:38 PM
How do we know that?
How's he different than Anderson or someone like that?

He's not from the White Sox farm system. :lol:

dickallen15
12-03-2007, 06:39 PM
As far as Quentin goes, I'm sure the White Sox hope he can start in a corner OF spot in 2008 as long as they don't trade him in some bigger trade. Right now, and I did like the trade, Quentin is a question mark. He didn't do very well in the majors in 2007. He was hurt. He had some surgery and is questionable for at least the start of spring training. Longer term he looks like he can be a guy who can produce at a nice level, but short term is anyone's guess IMO.

MCHSoxFan
12-03-2007, 06:50 PM
Well...I don't know how I feel about this...I'm going to reserve comment until its official.

Yep, me too.

btrain929
12-03-2007, 06:52 PM
How do we know that?
How's he different than Anderson or someone like that?

1) By the league and by the statheads, he was always ranked as a top prospect IN BASEBALL, not just a top prospect of a team. Quentin was always projected as a better player as supposed to projections of Anderson. Point for Quentin.
2) On the major league level, he looks like he has a clue of what to do at the plate in comparison to Anderson. Point for Quentin

champagne030
12-03-2007, 07:34 PM
The only reason I really don't buy into this trade is Arizona's pitching depth. I thought they were trying to acquire pitching. I could have seen them trying to get Garland using Owings in a package, but giving up young pitching for proven veteran position players doesn't seem to be playing from their strength.

soxfanreggie
12-03-2007, 07:37 PM
While I would miss having PK on the team, I am a Sox fan first. I think this could give us some needed young talent and would free up a lot of payroll to make vastly important improvements. We have enough slower power hitters on the team and are in need of some arms.

I would still wear my PK jersey to the game though, as we would likely be leaving on good terms.

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2007, 08:48 PM
You guys are talking as if this is a done deal, but I haven't read a word about it anywhere else...am I missing something?

TDog
12-03-2007, 09:19 PM
Ehhh Im 50/50 on this

... As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I'm confused with this post because the NL West is probably the toughest and most competitive division in baseball. The AL Central is probably the second-weakest, although Detroit has the only park seriously favoring pitchers.

Tragg
12-03-2007, 09:25 PM
He's not from the White Sox farm system. :lol:
You bad.
That's just not nice.


:D:

HebrewHammer
12-03-2007, 09:43 PM
If this happens, what would our lineup look like???

1. Jerry Owens -CF(written in pencil)
2. Orlando Cabrera -SS
3. Jim Thome -DH
4. Jermaine Dye - RF
5. Conor Jackson - 1B
6. AJ Pierzynski - C
7. Carlos Quentin -LF
8. Josh Fields -3B
9. Danny Richar -2B

Aaron or Andrew would make that look a lot nicer, but we still lack a true leadoff guy.

sullythered
12-03-2007, 09:49 PM
1. Jerry Owens -CF(written in pencil)
2. Orlando Cabrera -SS
3. Jim Thome -DH
4. Jermaine Dye - RF
5. Conor Jackson - 1B
6. AJ Pierzynski - C
7. Carlos Quentin -LF
8. Josh Fields -3B
9. Danny Richar -2B

:puking:

nccwsfan
12-03-2007, 10:28 PM
If this happens, what would our lineup look like???

1. Jerry Owens -CF(written in pencil)
2. Orlando Cabrera -SS
3. Jim Thome -DH
4. Jermaine Dye - RF
5. Conor Jackson - 1B
6. AJ Pierzynski - C
7. Carlos Quentin -LF
8. Josh Fields -3B
9. Danny Richar -2B

Aaron or Andrew would make that look a lot nicer, but we still lack a true leadoff guy.

Looks about right. Speed at the top (and will have a quality season at leadoff IMO), a solid #2 hitter, and a good mix of power/improved OBP in the #3 through #8 spots. A Cabrera/Rowand/Jones additon would make this look nicer, but even if this were to happen it's a more balanced lineup. Plus the pitching would be better with Pena and Owings in the mix.

broker3d
12-03-2007, 10:54 PM
If this happens, what would our lineup look like???

1. Jerry Owens -CF(written in pencil)
2. Orlando Cabrera -SS
3. Jim Thome -DH
4. Jermaine Dye - RF
5. Conor Jackson - 1B
6. AJ Pierzynski - C
7. Carlos Quentin -LF
8. Josh Fields -3B
9. Danny Richar -2B

Aaron or Andrew would make that look a lot nicer, but we still lack a true leadoff guy.

Sorry, Im just not buying any lineup that has Thome batting 3rd. We need that 3 spot improved to a natural 3 hitter, or atleast closer to one than Thome.

JB98
12-03-2007, 10:58 PM
Sorry, Im just not buying any lineup that has Thome batting 3rd. We need that 3 spot improved to a natural 3 hitter, or atleast closer to one than Thome.

Interesting perspective. Looking at that proposed lineup, the only thing I like is Thome in that three spot. The rest looks really weak.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-03-2007, 11:05 PM
Interesting perspective. Looking at that proposed lineup, the only thing I like is Thome in that three spot. The rest looks really weak.

That lineup looks more like a win later type of team, not the win now as Williams said he would build.

oeo
12-03-2007, 11:09 PM
That lineup looks more like a win later type of team, not the win now as Williams said he would build.

That's the team he should be building. No way this team will win a World Series in 2008. Build for 2009 and beyond.

palehosepub
12-03-2007, 11:18 PM
Way too many ifs for me.

The only sure-fire producers are Cabrera, PK, and AJ
Jackson, Owens, Richar, Fields and Quinton are all too young to rely on. I understand you are going to have 2 or three in your lineup but 5? Dye and Thome are getting old and had many signs of slowing last year

RowanDye
12-03-2007, 11:22 PM
That lineup looks more like a win later type of team, not the win now as Williams said he would build.

The problem is that the proposed lineup isn't win now or later. This trade would further my impression that the White Sox lack any organizational direction at all. We had to sign Buehrle to keep fans in the seats, I undertstand that, but if this trade goes through then why sign Dye and trade for Cabrera? This trade would have a chance to be great for us in a couple of years, but for '08 it would be downgrading 1B for a bullpen arm and a potential 5th starter. Sounds like a rebuilding move to me.

Foulke You
12-03-2007, 11:22 PM
That's the team he should be building. No way this team will win a World Series in 2008. Build for 2009 and beyond.
I disagree. The goal for every team is to win the World Series. It should be the main goal of this team every single year. We had a GM that was cheap, timid, and stupid and his name was Ron Schueler. KW's gunslinger mentality is a trait that I happen to like in a GM. After watching hated rivals like the Indians, Cubs, and Yankees play in October last year, I for one, am glad Kenny is trying to win in 2008 and not 2009.

This White Sox team has holes in it for sure but it is only 2 years removed from a championship and only 1 year removed from 90 wins. We aren't as far away from contention as some people think.

Foulke You
12-03-2007, 11:31 PM
Ehhh Im 50/50 on this

Jackson is a poor mans Lyle Overbay. Solid contact, better gap hitter then power hitter, power limited actually (sub 20 homers from 1b is tough to live with). Owings isnt anything special. As a rookie he went 8 and 8 with an era in the 4s in a weak division and a big time pitchers park. He did not even average 6 innings a start. I think we have that in Danks and Floyd etc.

I think the problem is also you are going to scare away veteran free agents with a deal like this. You are showing you don't have the loyalty to let your team 'captain' get to his 10/5 status, and that a few years into his long term deal you can trade him. Well if you can trade Konerko what would stop you from trading Andruw Jones?

Its not the message you want to send to free agents.
You pretty much summed up my thoughts on this trade proposal. Besides the fact that Konerko is pretty much the face of the White Sox and a World Series hero, Conor Jackson and Owings aren't what I would call "can't miss" young players. 8W-8L with an E.R.A. in the mid 4s in the NL could quickly turn into 6W-13L in the AL with an E.R.A. in the mid 5s. Pena seems like the type of arm that the Sox covet and would be a nice talent to add but he is very young and unproven. Your asssessment of Jackson as being an Overbay esque player is very accurate. There isn't anything wrong with those type of hitters but that is a significant power downgrade at 1B which makes me nervous in a power loaded American League.

I also think some on this board are undervaluing Konerko's worth to the team. Sluggers like Paulie don't grow on trees. If they did, the Angels or D'backs would have their own. A lot of people get down on Paulie because of his lack of speed but if you hit 30-40HRs a year, you don't need to run very much. Upgrade your speed at the top and bottom of the order, not at 1B in the middle of your lineup. Maybe I'll warm up to this idea after a while or if it looks like Miguel Cabrera is definitely coming here (which I'll believe when it happens) but my initial reaction is that KW should hold off on this one.

oeo
12-03-2007, 11:36 PM
I disagree. The goal for every team is to win the World Series.

Of course...but not every year. Sometimes you can't just go for it all...the Sox are in that position right now. They won't be able to improve enough in this one offseason to beat the best in the AL. It's just not going to happen.

It should be the main goal of this team every single year. We had a GM that was cheap, timid, and stupid and his name was Ron Schueler. KW's gunslinger mentality is a trait that I happen to like in a GM. After watching hated rivals like the Indians, Cubs, and Yankees play in October last year, I for one, am glad Kenny is trying to win in 2008 and not 2009.

I'd like it to be the 'main goal' each year, too. Which is why, as of now, we have to take a hit for one year in order to make that goal in the future.

This White Sox team has holes in it for sure but it is only 2 years removed from a championship and only 1 year removed from 90 wins. We aren't as far away from contention as some people think.

It's not the same team as two years ago. Two years ago we had 5 veteran starters, a veteran bullpen, and a veteran lineup. We're not in the same situation as two years ago. It's time to move on from 2005, and build a new core that can win for many years, while rebuilding our farm system at the same time.

Foulke You
12-03-2007, 11:50 PM
It's not the same team as two years ago. Two years ago we had 5 veteran starters, a veteran bullpen, and a veteran lineup. We're not in the same situation as two years ago. It's time to move on from 2005, and build a new core that can win for many years, while rebuilding our farm system at the same time.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to hijack the thread here so this will be my last comment on the subject. I feel that '07 was a perfect storm of injuries, bullpen struggles, and all star players having down years. The odds are very good that this terrible sequence of events won't repeat themselves. As Lou Pinella once said about his slumping Mariners team, "all you need to do is look at the back of their baseball cards to know they will start hitting again." I'm not drinking the Sox kool-aid, I'm waiting to see what moves KW makes next before making any concrete predictions on '08. I believe with a couple of shrewd moves, the Sox could be back in contention next year without conceding the '08 season to the Indians or Tigers.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2007, 11:54 PM
...watch him get lit up like a Christmas goose on the 4th of July.You had to have used a fifteen-speed blender to mix that metaphor. :mg:

Fantosme
12-04-2007, 03:42 AM
Owings recently became a Boras client

soxinem1
12-04-2007, 05:42 AM
I also think some on this board are undervaluing Konerko's worth to the team. Sluggers like Paulie don't grow on trees. If they did, the Angels or D'backs would have their own. A lot of people get down on Paulie because of his lack of speed but if you hit 30-40HRs a year, you don't need to run very much. Upgrade your speed at the top and bottom of the order, not at 1B in the middle of your lineup. Maybe I'll warm up to this idea after a while or if it looks like Miguel Cabrera is definitely coming here (which I'll believe when it happens) but my initial reaction is that KW should hold off on this one.

I agree with this assessment too. Not every player is five tool material, so why berate him because he is slow? He has a great swing, has great hands that save numerous errors, and is one of MLB's top power sources.

In addition, he is not a troublemaker, stays out of the limelight, and has learned from the few mistakes (like the Big Frank Episode) he has made. He could have bolted to the West Coast but chose to stay.

Plus, he has been durable, and plays hurt. Who wouldn't want that type of player on their team?

Even with the ****ty team last year, fans came out and chanted for PK every time he came up, and he is one of the few players in the team who is easily recognized when off the field. Fans feel like he is one of them, and he is one of the most fan-friendly players on the team.

Konerko is indeed the face of White Sox baseball. :bandance:

Corlose 15
12-04-2007, 05:48 AM
You had to have used a fifteen-speed blender to mix that metaphor. :mg:


Since he used "like" doesn't that make it a simile?:D:

Tragg
12-04-2007, 07:43 AM
I also think some on this board are undervaluing Konerko's worth to the team. Sluggers like Paulie don't grow on trees. If they did, the Angels or D'backs would have their own. A lot of people get down on Paulie because of his lack of speed but if you hit 30-40HRs a year, you don't need to run very much. That's certainly true. Konerko also has a favorable contract.
But that's why we should get a good return for him. I'm for the trade - the current configuration isn't working and the O hasn't been scoring runs.

balke
12-04-2007, 08:08 AM
A lot of people also get down on him because he hits into a lot of DP's, the Sox have plenty of power already, and he tends to put up about half a season of good stats and half a season of pitiful stats. He's good, but now is the time to trade a player like him, before he enters the DH zone.

santo=dorf
12-04-2007, 08:49 AM
A lot of people also get down on him because he hits into a lot of DP's, the Sox have plenty of power already, and he tends to put up about half a season of good stats and half a season of pitiful stats. He's good, but now is the time to trade a player like him, before he enters the DH zone.
26th in the MLB in SLG% is hardly "having enough power."

If the Sox needed a first baseman and signed Konerko to a 3 year, $36 million deal, this board would be going nuts for joy.

Konerko hits into a lot of DP's because he has a lot of chances. I'd love to see a ratio of DP hit into/opportunities for mlb players. I imagine Konerko wouldn't be that high up on the list considering he has to bat behind a man you gets on base 41% of the time.

balke
12-04-2007, 08:52 AM
26th in the MLB in SLG% is hardly "having enough power."

If the Sox needed a first baseman and signed Konerko to a 3 year, $36 million deal, this board would be going nuts for joy.

Konerko hits into a lot of DP's because he has a lot of chances. I'd love to see a ratio of DP hit into/opportunities for mlb players. I imagine Konerko wouldn't be that high up on the list considering he has to bat behind a man you gets on base 41% of the time.

The same team healthy in 2006 was #1 in the MLB in Slg%

I think they'd be fine between Thome, Dye, Jackson, AJ, Fields, and whatever power they put in CF next season. There's more than enough power on this Sox team.

Flight #24
12-04-2007, 09:32 AM
Owings recently became a Boras client

At this stage in his career it doesn't really matter because he's not eligible for FA for a while.

TheVulture
12-04-2007, 02:25 PM
Paulie and mark are the cornerstones of this team. Any good team needs to have these types of players (good clubhouse guys as well as contributing vets on the field).

Good thing we've got Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede, etc.

chaerulez
12-04-2007, 03:32 PM
Conor Jackson has the potential to be really good. Micah Owings can be a solid #3 maybe even #2.

fquaye149
12-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Anything more than a bucket of balls and I'd be happy

RowanDye
12-04-2007, 03:44 PM
Anything more than a bucket of balls and I'd be happy

What does this even mean?

You want to give Paul Konerko away?

Why am I even responding to this?

Ugh.

alohafri
12-04-2007, 06:22 PM
If this is true, it seems like Kenny has changed gears and is looking towards 2009.

...or 2012.

sullythered
12-04-2007, 06:24 PM
Anything more than a bucket of balls and I'd be happy
:(::?::o::rolleyes:
Silly.

HawkDJ
12-04-2007, 07:12 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned since everything has been crazy today but the Boston Herald is reporting the D-backs are closing in on acquiring Dan Haren for Conor Jackson and others.

Chicken Dinner
12-04-2007, 07:16 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned since everything has been crazy today but the Boston Herald is reporting the D-backs are closing in on acquiring Dan Haren for Conor Jackson and others.

That's what they're looking for, starting pitching, not a 12 million dollar 1st baseman.

ViPeRx007
12-04-2007, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with trading any of the guys on the current lineup (with the exception of Buehrle and Jenks) if it meant restocking the farm system for the future. As of right now, this team is going nowhere in 08 anyway unless something big happens. Unfortunately we've been close to 2 big things and we've missed out at the last minute.

What do I know though, I wasn't expecting much before the 05 season either.

ChiSoxFan35
12-07-2007, 01:47 AM
They should make this deal, and then trade for Manny Ramirez

ChiSoxFan35
12-07-2007, 02:21 AM
That's what they're looking for, starting pitching, not a 12 million dollar 1st baseman.

Why wouldn't they want bats, Eric Byrnes hitting 3rd or 4th, ouch

ChiSoxFan35
12-07-2007, 04:21 AM
They should make this deal, and then trade for Manny Ramirez

No one will take it seriously, but maybe I should email it to Kenny. 3 way, Johan to Bos, Manny to ChiWS, Bos and CWS prospects to Minn :D

IlliniSox4Life
12-07-2007, 04:34 AM
No one will take it seriously, but maybe I should email it to Kenny. 3 way, Johan to Bos, Manny to ChiWS, Bos and CWS prospects to Minn :D

We don't have enough prospects to pull that off. And I doubt that Bos or Min would want us to get Manny.

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 09:57 AM
Why wouldn't they want bats, Eric Byrnes hitting 3rd or 4th, ouch

They're cheap!

balke
12-07-2007, 10:30 AM
They're cheap!

All of that young talent, and just adding one high priced veteran... that could fill some seats. The attendance there sucks, they need a big name. I think it'd be a good move for AZ to get Konerko there if they could.

Chicken Dinner
12-07-2007, 10:38 AM
All of that young talent, and just adding one high priced veteran... that could fill some seats. The attendance there sucks, they need a big name. I think it'd be a good move for AZ to get Konerko there if they could.

They won't even re-sign fan favorite Tony Clark.

Gammons Peter
12-07-2007, 10:44 AM
Konerko WOULD have been dealt IF Miggy was acquired

balke
12-07-2007, 10:44 AM
They won't even re-sign fan favorite Tony Clark.


Probably for the better.

AZChiSoxFan
12-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Looks like Rockabilly is now 1-1 this week in predicting trades.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2007, 01:35 PM
Looks like Rockabilly is now 1-1 this week in predicting trades.

He didn't say it was happening, he said they were talking about it. I'm thinking the whole thing depended on Kenny getting Cabrera. With the addition of Cabrera he could have traded Pauly for more pitching and gotten younger and wouldn't have to worry about the loss of offense.They could be still talking about it. He did say that it was 'nowhere near being finished'.

Rockabilly
12-07-2007, 01:58 PM
Looks like Rockabilly is now 1-1 this week in predicting trades.


It wasn't a prediction I said that they were talking about Konerko going to AZ and it was no where close to being finished.. I'm pretty sure if we would have landed Cabrera this week PK would be heading to AZ not soon after that...

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 02:07 PM
No way do you deal Konerko if you get Cabrera. Its just a step forward then another backwards. If you get Cabrera you are saying you want to win! Trade Konerko and its a fairly lateral move

In the end of said deals you went from having

Konerko and his usual 275-35-100, Fields and his 40 homer potential, Danks, Gio and someone like Sweeney

to

Cabrera 315-40-120, Connor Jackson 285 19 homers 70 rbis Micah Owings to be our Floyd clone and an awesome set up man in Pena

So Cabrera >> Konerko, Fields >> Jackson Danks > Owings Gio equal to Pena and Sweeney as leftover

The only way it makes sense to have Cabrera AND Konerko

Gammons Peter
12-07-2007, 02:21 PM
No way do you deal Konerko if you get Cabrera. Its just a step forward then another backwards. If you get Cabrera you are saying you want to win! Trade Konerko and its a fairly lateral move

In the end of said deals you went from having

Konerko and his usual 275-35-100, Fields and his 40 homer potential, Danks, Gio and someone like Sweeney

to

Cabrera 315-40-120, Connor Jackson 285 19 homers 70 rbis Micah Owings to be our Floyd clone and an awesome set up man in Pena

So Cabrera >> Konerko, Fields >> Jackson Danks > Owings Gio equal to Pena and Sweeney as leftover

The only way it makes sense to have Cabrera AND Konerko

wrong. paulie and his salary would have been gone. Team gets younger and cheaper so its not lateral

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 09:30 PM
wrong. paulie and his salary would have been gone. Team gets younger and cheaper so its not lateral

Not really. I mean you upgrade 3b but severely downgrade first.

I really dont think Konerko gets dealt. We can't land a top FA as it is, and now we have to convince them to come to a place that shows no loyalty to its players by dealing them all off. Players see what goes on, and if they know that if Kenny will deal Konerko, he will deal anyone.

Also why would need to deal Konerko in that trade? The salary increase is not a killer, and when Cabrera is up for FA, Contreras broke ass is off the books along with Dye and a few others, so no, Konerko would not have had to gone financially.

Sorry but Connor Jackson is is a poor Lyle Overbay. Hes basically Doug Manekieiwiiwaaitz without the glove. He doesn't hit for power, and hes not even good enough to have a full time roll on his current team. The only good part of that deal for us would have been Pena.

oeo
12-07-2007, 09:44 PM
I really dont think Konerko gets dealt. We can't land a top FA as it is, and now we have to convince them to come to a place that shows no loyalty to its players by dealing them all off. Players see what goes on, and if they know that if Kenny will deal Konerko, he will deal anyone.

Would you stop with this loyalty crap? It's a business. I highly doubt trading Konerko would have any effect on future signings. If you pay them, they will come.

Also why would need to deal Konerko in that trade? The salary increase is not a killer, and when Cabrera is up for FA, Contreras broke ass is off the books along with Dye and a few others, so no, Konerko would not have had to gone financially.You deal Konerko to fill other needs. With Cabrera, you no longer need Konerko. It would have been a very creative way for Kenny to turn the team around in the right direction.

Sorry but Connor Jackson is is a poor Lyle Overbay. Hes basically Doug Manekieiwiiwaaitz without the glove. He doesn't hit for power, and hes not even good enough to have a full time roll on his current team. The only good part of that deal for us would have been Pena.You don't need Konerko numbers from Jackson when you have a future HOF'er across the infield. Cabrera gives you Konerko's numbers, and more. It would be nice to keep both, but when you don't need one of them, you can deal him to fill other holes.

I think you're missing the point that we have a billion holes to fill (and trading for Cabrera would have put another one in the rotation). With Cabrera, Konerko becomes expendable, and a damn good trading chip. In the end, the team would have been younger, faster, and much improved.

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 09:46 PM
Also why would need to deal Konerko in that trade? The salary increase is not a killer, and when Cabrera is up for FA, Contreras broke ass is off the books along with Dye and a few others, so no, Konerko would not have had to gone financially.


That's right and I was really struggling with that assertion too. I don't think the trade is bad, and I like the idea of being younger and cheaper (don't get me wrong GP), but I also agree that particular plan represents a change in bodies for the sake of age, but no real impact on talent or $.

Whatever, there is no reason to even think about moving Paulie now, if there's not something huge in either LF or CF. I don't agree about the "message" stuff though, nor do I about Danks > Owings.

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 09:50 PM
Would you stop with this loyalty crap? It's a business. I highly doubt trading Konerko would have any effect on future signings. If you pay them, they will come.



You deal Konerko to fill other needs. With Cabrera, you no longer need Konerko. It would have been a very creative way for Kenny to turn the team around in the right direction.



You don't need Konerko numbers from Jackson when you have a future HOF'er across the infield. Cabrera gives you Konerko's numbers, and more. It would be nice to keep both, but when you don't need one of them, you can deal him to fill other holes.

You are right, players don't care where they play, if they get 10/5 rights, or no trade clauses, those are just fancy bells and whistles to make people sound happy when they sign a deal and have no impact. Players don't care about their homes or families or childrens schools since they can just uproot them for more money.

Im not saying you chase away ever free agent, but it damn sure has an impact and you are a fool if you don't believe so. Yes, you will have plenty of pay me and play me guys, and you will also have plenty of the Jermaine Dyes of the world who will do a deal on a handshake. But wait, that doesn't happen, because teams offered JD more money right, so he should have went there. Buehrle did not take a mega discount to stay since he could just get 100 mil on the market right.

Yah, you can tell a free agent "hey we only traded Konerko to make the entire team better, but that will never happen to you...unless someone offers us a deal to make us better".

Its beyond loyalty too, its idiotic to deal Konerko. In 2 years you now have Cabrera and....you dealt most your farm to get him. Dye is gone, Thome Gone, Konerko gone, Fields dealt, Crede gone AJ on his last legs if not gone. You have Cabrera and Connor Jackson and no one in the farm. Great plan. On top of that what do you do in 2008 when Thome misses his usual few weeks with his back/side/hip injuries and Dye struggles for a month as he fights off an injury. Now you are talking about having 1 healthy productive member in your heart, with a weak 6-7-8-9 of AJ Jackson Quentin Richar. IT just never made sense, its not creative, it is just a bad trade. We don't need Owings. The one thing our POS farm does have is plenty of arms to replenish with. Adding a guy who falls into the middle of that pack does nothing.

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 09:53 PM
That's right and I was really struggling with that assertion too. I don't think the trade is bad, and I like the idea of being younger and cheaper (don't get me wrong GP), but I also agree that particular plan represents a change in bodies for the sake of age, but no real impact on talent or $.

Whatever, there is no reason to even think about moving Paulie now, if there's not something huge in either LF or CF. I don't agree about the "message" stuff though, nor do I about Danks > Owings.

Thats fair. I think Danks over time is better than Owings. The reason I say that, Danks was pretty rushed by us. Pre 2007 everyone and their mom thought he needed another year, but he looked ok in spring training and floyd looked like he should be playing 16" softball. Owings was mlb ready and never really considered a big time prospect, more like a lance broadway who will fill out your rotation but never be great.

oeo
12-07-2007, 09:58 PM
Its beyond loyalty too, its idiotic to deal Konerko. In 2 years you now have Cabrera and....you dealt most your farm to get him. Dye is gone, Thome Gone, Konerko gone, Fields dealt, Crede gone AJ on his last legs if not gone. You have Cabrera and Connor Jackson and no one in the farm. Great plan

We have M. Cabrera, possibly O. Cabrera, Quentin, Sweeney, Jackson, and Richar (as well as whatever minor leaguers that will be ready...you could subsitute Getz for Richar, as well). In the rotation, we still have Buehrle, Vazquez, Owings, DLS will be ready, and a FA signing (whatever, you worry about that in two years; Egbert would still be around too, Poreda should be close).

In the meantime of those two years (hopefully winning at least one title), you rebuild the farm system. And a lot can happen within two years, through trades/FA signings (as you already mentioned, a lot of money will be coming off the books in a couple of years), so to say we would only have Cabrera and Jackson is nonsense.

That sounds like a better situation to me.

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 10:06 PM
Thats fair. I think Danks over time is better than Owings. The reason I say that, Danks was pretty rushed by us. Pre 2007 everyone and their mom thought he needed another year, but he looked ok in spring training and floyd looked like he should be playing 16" softball. Owings was mlb ready and never really considered a big time prospect, more like a lance broadway who will fill out your rotation but never be great.

I don't mean to sound or even be presumptuous, but you need to see Micah..in person.

He's big, he's fast, he's cerebral... I like him alot. I like John too, but Danks is outmatched athletically and (based on just a feeling from watching both), intellectually, in pitching situations.

I think Owings with Coop could REALLY be something special. He'd be a great land for us, especially with Garland gone.

Danks has the capacity of being a perfectly serviceable (200 IP) starter too, though. I just feel that Owings has more upside. We don't pitch at home in the friendliest of parks, afterall.

Just my opinion.

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 10:11 PM
I don't mean to sound or even be presumptuous, but you need to see Micah..in person.

He's big, he's fast, he's cerebral... I like him alot. I like John too, but Danks is outmatched athletically and (based on just a feeling from watching both), intellectually, in pitching situations.

I think Owings with Coop could REALLY be something special. He'd be a great land for us, especially with Garland gone.

Danks has the capacity of being a perfectly serviceable (200 IP) starter too, though. I just feel that Owings has more upside. We don't pitch at home in the friendliest of parks, afterall.

Just my opinion.

That is more than fair. I admit, I have seen Owings on tv a few times and read a lot about him, that is all. I have not had the privledge of watching him every 5 days or so. From what I have read, it sounded as if Danks is the guy who if you had to bet which could win a cy young, has the potential to do so, while Owings is the guy who is more complete, more poised and ready. Some of that comes with the age difference. I guess its fair to say neither is a bad prospect to have in your rotation.

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 10:16 PM
We have M. Cabrera, possibly O. Cabrera, Quentin, Sweeney, Jackson, and Richar (as well as whatever minor leaguers that will be ready...you could subsitute Getz for Richar, as well). In the rotation, we still have Buehrle, Vazquez, Owings, DLS will be ready, and a FA signing (whatever, you worry about that in two years; Egbert would still be around too, Poreda should be close).

In the meantime of those two years (hopefully winning at least one title), you rebuild the farm system. And a lot can happen within two years, through trades/FA signings (as you already mentioned, a lot of money will be coming off the books in a couple of years), so to say we would only have Cabrera and Jackson is nonsense.

That sounds like a better situation to me.

We have Cabrera if we resign him for just under arod type bucks. Im thinking 22 a year is his price tag in 2 years. Agreed. We may even have Orlando Cabrera, fair enough. But Quentin (who I love btw) has to prove he can be a major league hitter along with Richar and Sweeney has to prove he can be triple a hitter before I count him as a pro hitter. I also don't think you can have Sweeney and Jackson in the same lineup because you are getting no power from 2 needed power positions, corner OF and 1b. You have money to spend, but you do now, so why does that matter.

The Konerko deal is pretty bad for us. Jackson isnt much, Owings is a nice but unneeded cog in the wheel, and Pena is a big time set up man but you don't trade your clean up hitter for a set up man.

I would rather see us just salary dump Jose on a team in 2 months (and yes after silva and loshe get their 11-12 mil per, someone will take Jose and my feeling is it will be the mets) and use the money to strengthen the pen and get a retread guy like Colon Jason Jennings Freddy etc.

oeo
12-07-2007, 10:21 PM
We have Cabrera if we resign him for just under arod type bucks. Im thinking 22 a year is his price tag in 2 years. Agreed. We may even have Orlando Cabrera, fair enough. But Quentin (who I love btw) has to prove he can be a major league hitter along with Richar and Sweeney has to prove he can be triple a hitter before I count him as a pro hitter. I also don't think you can have Sweeney and Jackson in the same lineup because you are getting no power from 2 needed power positions, corner OF and 1b. You have money to spend, but you do now, so why does that matter.

You're just trying to look for excuses now. Of course you hope that Sweeney develops his power, and that Quentin 'proves himself,' but these are things that are going to need to happen either way.

The Konerko deal is pretty bad for us. Jackson isnt much, Owings is a nice but unneeded cog in the wheel, and Pena is a big time set up man but you don't trade your clean up hitter for a set up man. We fill two holes...I don't see how it's bad for us. We'd have a hole in the rotation, and we still have a couple of holes in the bullpen. You're not trading him for a setup man. You're trading him for a major league ready, #2 or #3 starter (down the line); a 1B that gets on base, gives you some power, and isn't slow as molasses; and a set-up man.

Not to mention, you have Miguel ****ing Cabrera.

I would rather see us just salary dump Jose on a team in 2 months (and yes after silva and loshe get their 11-12 mil per, someone will take Jose and my feeling is it will be the mets) and use the money to strengthen the pen and get a retread guy like Colon Jason Jennings Freddy etc.How is this a better situation? Sorry, but you can't argue that your plan would be better in 2008, or in the future. A team with Cabrera+Owings+Pena+Jackson > Konerko+Danks+Fields.

Domeshot17
12-07-2007, 10:29 PM
You're just trying to look for excuses now. Of course you hope that Sweeney develops his power, and that Quentin 'proves himself,' but these are things that are going to need to happen either way.

We fill two holes...I don't see how it's bad for us. We'd have a hole in the rotation, and we still have a couple of holes in the bullpen. You're not trading him for a setup man. You're trading him for a major league ready, #2 or #3 starter (down the line); a 1B that gets on base, gives you some power, and isn't slow as molasses; and a set-up man.

Not to mention, you have Miguel ****ing Cabrera.

How is this a better situation?

How am I looking for excuses, do you feel confident all of Sweeney Quentin and Richar will live up to their ability? Im not saying it won't happen, but its yet too.

You already have 7 starting pitchers. 2 proven studs on his the back end 2 top prospects and 1 who looks like he might be finding it. There is no need to add another to the mix unless he joines the proven studs, which he does not.

If you trade Konerko it has to yield a major league ready OF who either has the potential to hit 35 homers or be a sensational lead off man. But he is a bargain at his current salary. I mean if Jackson keeps hitting 280 with 18 homers, you have to have Owings fully develop into a mid rotation starter AND Pena keep it up to make the deal worth it.

Anyway, just typed out what our lineup would have been, and its sad to look at a 3-4-5-6 of Cabrera Konerko Thome Dye, so lets leafe well enough alone since this option is gone.

KRS1
12-07-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't mean to sound or even be presumptuous, but you need to see Micah..in person.


Well, having watched Micah in person, as well as plenty of times on TV, I can safely say I would take Danks every day of the week, and twice on Sunday over Micah. As far as stuff goes, John blows Micah out of the water. Micah's slider is garbage even though he throws it reasonably hard, his FB is fringe average in both movement and MPH for a righty, but he does have a good change. Don't get me wrong, he is a very nice young pitcher, I just see a lot more upside and potential in Danks, much more. I'm not saying this just as a White Sox fan favoring his player over others, I am saying it having seen both guys throw a lot, and I am completely firm in my belief that John's upside dwarf's Micah's. Also, lets not forget Micah is nearly three years older than John, and whatever "headiness" on the mound Owings has over Danks now could easily be explained by the age difference.

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 11:01 PM
Well, having watched Micah in person, as well as plenty of times on TV, I can safely say I would take Danks every day of the week, and twice on Sunday over Micah. As far as stuff goes, John blows Micah out of the water. Micah's slider is garbage even though he throws it reasonably hard, his FB is fringe average in both movement and MPH for a righty, but he does have a good change. Don't get me wrong, he is a very nice young pitcher, I just see a lot more upside and potential in Danks, much more. I'm not saying this just as a White Sox fan favoring his player over others, I am saying it having seen both guys thrown a lot, and I am completely firm in my belief that John's upside dwarf's Micah's. Also, lets not forget Micah is nearly three years older than John, and whatever "headiness" on the mound Owings has over Danks now could easily be explained by the age difference.

We can compare notes after this season. I hope Danks wins (of course), but I would not put my own $ on it.

One spent the 2 1/2 year difference playing college ball, the other didn't.

KRS1
12-07-2007, 11:11 PM
We can compare notes after this season. I hope Danks wins (of course), but I would not put my own $ on it.

One spent the 2 1/2 year difference playing college ball, the other didn't.

All that means is Micah is 2 1/2 years behind in talent. His development took seven years after HS to get to where he is, John took four. I would put good money on John being the better pitcher when he is 25 and Micah is 28. If we are talking pure upside, I have a hard time believing anyone who has seen both pitch could say Micah's is higher, but to each his own I guess. Everything about Micah is just so underwhelming in my eyes.

drewcifer
12-07-2007, 11:25 PM
All that means is Micah is 2 1/2 years behind in talent. His development took seven years after HS to get to where he is, John took four. I would put good money on John being the better pitcher when he is 25 and Micah is 28. If we are talking pure upside, I have a hard time believing anyone who has seen both pitch could say Micah's is higher, but to each his own I guess. Everything about Micah is just so underwhelming in my eyes.

Do you really believe that is "all it means?" He wasted his time or was slower than John by playing college ball?

I'll call Ian Kennedy right now and let him know how stupid he was.

KRS1
12-07-2007, 11:58 PM
Do you really believe that is "all it means?"

No it's called an exaggeration, but as a side note Ian is also two years younger then Micah while arriving to the bigs in the same year. I see a lot of Lance Broadway in Micah. Same FB's(almost literally in both velocity and movement), and good but not pinpoint control or command of their stuff though Micah has an advantage in command at this point. Of course the differences in their secondary stuff is pretty big. Micah's change is better and much more refined than Lance's, but Lance's curve is much better than Micah's slider.

drewcifer
12-08-2007, 12:36 AM
No it's called an exaggeration, but as a side note Ian is also two years younger then Micah while arriving to the bigs in the same year. I see a lot of Lance Broadway in Micah. Same FB's(almost literally in both velocity and movement), and good but not pinpoint control or command of their stuff though Micah has an advantage in command at this point. Of course the differences in their secondary stuff is pretty big. Micah's change is better and much more refined than Lance's, but Lance's curve is much better than Micah's slider.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you like Lance. You brought him up twice now.

Do you have a vested interest in him (i.e - family, friends, hair-style, other)?

We were talking about Danks.

This is a ridiculous week. :rolleyes: Are you a step or two ahead than your fingers and now you have Lance in a Danks role or something? Did I miss something? I'm trying honestly to understand your point... Seriously.


My wife says I have no patience sometimes.... I am trying to be better with people.

Do you think that it's actually Broadway that has more upside than Danks? Or something entirely different?

Because Ian Kennedy is DOUBLE the pitcher both are... I'm just not sure what your point is.

KRS1
12-08-2007, 12:44 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you like Lance. You brought him up twice now.

Do you have a vested interest in him (i.e - family, friends, hair-style, other)?

We were talking about Danks.

This is a ridiculous week. :rolleyes: Are you a step or two ahead than your fingers and now you have Lance in a Danks role or something? Did I miss something? I'm trying honestly to understand your point... Seriously.


My wife says I have no patience sometimes.... I am trying to be better with people.

Do you think that it's actually Broadway that has more upside than Danks? Or something entirely different?

Because Ian Kennedy is DOUBLE the pitcher both are... I'm just not sure what your point is.

I only mentioned Lance ONCE here guy, you are confusing posts.

I just brought up Lance as a comparison to the type of pitcher I see Micah to be, in order to relate him to someone people here might be more familiar with(not just by sight, but by how we value that type of pitcher). It was sort of a way to say would anyone here value Lance more than they do John, or think he has a higher upside than John? Because that's the same difference I see between John and Micah. Is it that hard to understand, because it's written pretty straight-forward?

drewcifer
12-08-2007, 01:12 AM
I only mentioned Lance ONCE here guy, you are confusing posts.

I just brought up Lance as a comparison to the type of pitcher I see Micah to be, in order to relate him to someone people here might be more familiar with(not just by sight, but by how we value that type of pitcher). It was sort of a way to say would anyone here value Lance more than they do John, or think he has a higher upside than John? Because that's the same difference I see between John and Micah. Is it that hard to understand, because it's written pretty straight-forward?

For me, No.

And you switched. The discussion was John vs. Micah. Lance Broadway has nothing to do with anything.

cburns
12-08-2007, 01:47 AM
I'm so confused after reading these last two pages.

doctor30th
12-14-2007, 09:42 PM
According to my source the D Backs and Sox might not be trading yet he is telling me that Konerko might be heading to AZ for Conor Jackson, Tony Pena and Micah Ownings but no where close to being finished..

I'm thinking this deal might not be dead. Maybe the Diamondbacks knew they were going to trade Valverde to save some money and get a quality middle reliever so they didn't want to trade Pena (there future closer). Perhaps the sox were looking them to add something on the first time.

Something like Conor Jackson, Chris Burke, and Micah Owings. I think that would be a good deal, also if they threw in one of their CF prospects either Rich Thompson or Jeff Salazar then it would be a great deal.

That would fill alot of holes.

See if you hear any rumblings.

drewcifer
12-14-2007, 09:53 PM
I'm thinking this deal might not be dead. Maybe the Diamondbacks knew they were going to trade Valverde to save some money and get a quality middle reliever so they didn't want to trade Pena (there future closer). Perhaps the sox were looking them to add something on the first time.

Something like Conor Jackson, Chris Burke, and Micah Owings. I think that would be a good deal, also if they threw in one of their CF prospects either Rich Thompson or Jeff Salazar then it would be a great deal.

That would fill alot of holes.

See if you hear any rumblings.

I'd be thrilled with it. In a year Micah alone would justify it.

Frater Perdurabo
12-14-2007, 10:01 PM
You know how I feel about it. :redface:

If by not signing any of the marquee free agents and also not making a deal to add Cabrera, that means that the Sox are by default put into a position of having to rebuild, that kind of deal makes sense. That allows the Sox to keep Crede for his glove, move Fields to first, and then use 2008 to develop young players and hope for the best with veteran leadership from Dye, Thome, Cabrera and Buehrle.

doctor30th
12-14-2007, 10:06 PM
if they could get a good amount back for Konerko I would wouldn't consider it a rebuilding year. The Sox would actually be improving thier speed and pitching with a deal like this. Even though they would miss out on alot of power without Konerko. I just think the team is closer to the 2004 team right now, where we had alot of home run hitters but were slow (and sometimes dumb) on the base paths.

KRS1
12-14-2007, 10:49 PM
if they could get a good amount back for Konerko I would wouldn't consider it a rebuilding year. The Sox would actually be improving thier speed and pitching with a deal like this. Even though they would miss out on alot of power without Konerko. I just think the team is closer to the 2004 team right now, where we had alot of home run hitters but were slow (and sometimes dumb) on the base paths.

Indeed, looking to get younger through a guy like Paulie is the ideal way to go IMO.

PalehosePlanet
12-14-2007, 11:20 PM
I'd be thrilled with it. In a year Micah alone would justify it.

I don't think we're a good fit w/Arizona for a trade any longer. If we moved Josh to 1B, then we would no longer need Connor Jackson. Jackson does not have the power bat to be an everyday 1B, so he would be worthless to us. Chris Burke is a utilty player; no thanks. As for Micah Owings, he is a very typical right hander w/a 88-92 fastball, with a decent array of pitches, but at best projects as a #4 ona good AL team, a #5 on championship type club. He is basically Garland w/out a sinker but w/a curveball.

Without Pena that's not nearly enough for proven power hitter w/a lifetime .281 avg who is only 31. To me they would have to offer Mark Reynolds SS/3B/2B, Salazar (CF) and one of their top 3 pitching prospects to land Konerko.

Then we could still trade Crede, put Reynolds at 3B, Josh at 1B and bring up Salazar by the end of the year for CF --- or when he's ready.

JermaineDye05
12-14-2007, 11:25 PM
I don't think we're a good fit w/Arizona for a trade any longer. If we moved Josh to 1B, then we would no longer need Connor Jackson. Jackson does not have the power bat to be an everyday 1B, so he would be worthless to us. Chris Burke is a utilty player; no thanks. As for Micah Owings, he is a very typical right hander w/a 88-92 fastball, with a decent array of pitches, but at best projects as a #4 ona good AL team, a #5 on championship type club. He is basically Garland w/out a sinker but w/a curveball.

Without Pena that's not nearly enough for proven power hitter w/a lifetime .281 avg who is only 31. To me they would have to offer Mark Reynolds SS/3B/2B, Salazar (CF) and one of their top 3 pitching prospects to land Konerko.

Then we could still trade Crede, put Reynolds at 3B, Josh at 1B and bring up Salazar by the end of the year for CF --- or when he's ready.

Josh Fields isn't moving to first.

oeo
12-14-2007, 11:32 PM
Whether it's to Arizona or one of the LA teams (or elsewhere), I think Paulie does need to be moved. I love the guy, but this is a business, and right now he can turn this organization around in the right direction.

In May, he earns veto rights, so something has to happen now...let's get some young talent and start moving in the right direction.

DumpJerry
12-14-2007, 11:50 PM
Josh Fields isn't moving to first.
Ditto.

psyclonis
12-15-2007, 12:05 AM
Konerko has 4 years left, has a cheap contract, and is a fan fav! Unless he gets chris young in return, I doubt this deal gets anyhere close to going down.
Look at what Baltimore got for tejada and double that.

Konerko will not be traded anytime soon

JermaineDye05
12-15-2007, 12:12 AM
Konerko has 4 years left, has a cheap contract, and is a fan fav! Unless he gets chris young in return, I doubt this deal gets anyhere close to going down.
Look at what Baltimore got for tejada and double that.

Konerko will not be traded anytime soon

Him being cheap and having 4 years left is why you want to trade him now. You could probably get the most out of him now, and you don't have to worry about him vetoing anything.

btrain929
12-15-2007, 12:21 AM
Konerko has 4 years left, has a cheap contract, and is a fan fav! Unless he gets chris young in return, I doubt this deal gets anyhere close to going down.
Look at what Baltimore got for tejada and double that.

Konerko will not be traded anytime soon

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he have 3 years left? 5 year contract at the end of '05, with '06 and '07 gone, 3 years left, right?

psyclonis
12-15-2007, 12:46 AM
yea its 3 years, I totally blacked out the 2007 season

oeo
12-15-2007, 12:50 AM
Konerko has 4 years left, has a cheap contract, and is a fan fav! Unless he gets chris young in return, I doubt this deal gets anyhere close to going down.
Look at what Baltimore got for tejada and double that.

Konerko will not be traded anytime soon

What would you rather have, a fan favorite or three young guys that improve our team both next year, and beyond? I'll take the latter. The organization is in a bad spot; something needs to be done. Signing free agents to massive contracts isn't the way to go. We need to trade some of our bigger pieces in order to get the team rolling the right way...Konerko is one of those big pieces.

Lillian
12-15-2007, 04:39 AM
http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071212&content_id=2323922&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana

I still think that Angels are a better fit. They have a surplus of what the Sox need, and a need for what we have.

They have way too many outfielders, as the article I linked above states. Three of them are Center Fielders: Matthews, Haynes, and of course Hunter. Now that they have acquired Hunter, they really need to move either Willits or Haynes, and I suspect that they would love to rid themselves of that awful contract they gave Matthews. I wouldnŽt mind him in CF for a year or two until someone in our organization is ready. Between Owens, Anderson, Sweeney, and even Shelby, youŽd think we would have an in house CF solution by then. Maybe they could send some cash with Matthews, and, or agree to take UribeŽs contract off our hands. They could use a veteran presence at SS, while they break in Aybar, or Woods.


They have two high OBP % leadoff hitters, who can steal bases, in Willits and Figgins. IŽd prefer Figgins, in that he can play 2ND, where we could use an upgrade, until Richar is ready. The problem with Willits would be that he isnŽt a viable option in CF, and I would rather see Quentin in Left.

They would have two young attractive First Basemen to offer, if they got Konerko to hit behind V. Guerrero. I would take either K. Morales, or C. Kotchman.

They should really be looking for a good 3rd base option, as the players they have penciled in there now donŽt look that promising. They would probably love to have Crede.

They have 6 starters, 7 if you count the 21 year old phenom that everyone is asking about in trade talks, Arenhart (Spelling?).
They also have at least one extra bullpen arm, I believe.

Whom would you guys think we could realistically get, and use well out of the surplus of players the Angels have, if we gave up Konerko, and maybe even Crede? How about Haynes to play CF, Figgins at 2ND, Morales, or Kotchman to replace Konerko at First, and one or two pitchers? We could send them Konerko, Crede, and Uribe?

Again, what would you ask for, whom would you offer in a package to the Angels?

socko82
12-15-2007, 05:39 AM
What about Konerko and McDougal for Orlando Hudson, Owings and Qualls. Then use the money you save and sign Mike Cameron even though he's got the 25 game suspension hanging over his head. That means starting May 1 you've got gold glove talent at second, short, third and center. You're not going to outslug the Tigers and Indians so do your best to keep them from scoring. Also while it wouldn't exactly be a team of jackrabbits the team speed would be improved.

SoxNation05
12-15-2007, 12:04 PM
What about Konerko and McDougal for Orlando Hudson, Owings and Qualls. Then use the money you save and sign Mike Cameron even though he's got the 25 game suspension hanging over his head. That means starting May 1 you've got gold glove talent at second, short, third and center. You're not going to outslug the Tigers and Indians so do your best to keep them from scoring. Also while it wouldn't exactly be a team of jackrabbits the team speed would be improved.


I do not want Mike Cameron on this team.

mccoydp
12-15-2007, 12:56 PM
yea its 3 years, I totally blacked out the 2007 season

Don't worry, most of the rest of us did too. :redneck

TheOldRoman
12-15-2007, 02:23 PM
What about Konerko and McDougal for Orlando Hudson, Owings and Qualls. Then use the money you save and sign Mike Cameron even though he's got the 25 game suspension hanging over his head. That means starting May 1 you've got gold glove talent at second, short, third and center. You're not going to outslug the Tigers and Indians so do your best to keep them from scoring. Also while it wouldn't exactly be a team of jackrabbits the team speed would be improved.That is a terrible trade, IMO. One, as bad a MacDougal was last year, he is not a throw in. Other than that, the Sox are trading one of the best first baseman in baseball, signed for three years WELL below market value, and not getting a single prospect back. If Konerko gets traded, that is showing the Sox are taking a year to retool and recoup. Therefore, we would have no need for a veteran like Qualls or Hudson who is signed for one year and would take time away from Richar. If Konerko is traded, we would get stud prospects instead of marginal MLBers.

btrain929
12-15-2007, 02:36 PM
That is a terrible trade, IMO. One, as bad a MacDougal was last year, he is not a throw in. Other than that, the Sox are trading one of the best first baseman in baseball, signed for three years WELL below market value, and not getting a single prospect back. If Konerko gets traded, that is showing the Sox are taking a year to retool and recoup. Therefore, we would have no need for a veteran like Qualls or Hudson who is signed for one year and would take time away from Richar. If Konerko is traded, we would get stud prospects instead of marginal MLBers.

I agree. No way should we be getting back guys with 1 years left on their contract. If we had a whole at 2b like we did at SS before getting Cabrera, Hudson would definitely work since we'd be interested in signing him long term. That's why I think we fit well with the Angels because they have very good/stud positionial prospects and OF'ers/leadoff men. Those are things we desperately need. Plus, Anaheim is building to win now. Konerko helps them with that, while Willits on their bench and their other prospects don't. The Reds might also be a good pairing, since that NL Central is up in the air, and they have some good prospects and a plethora of OF'ers. The only reason why us and the Reds might not be a good fit for Konerko is cuz offense isn't their biggest concern, pitching is.

HITMEN OF 77
12-15-2007, 02:53 PM
What would you rather have, a fan favorite or three young guys that improve our team both next year, and beyond? I'll take the latter.

I'll take the tried and true Konerko, who puts up great #'s year after year, one the best 1b in the game, great clubhouse guy, over some could/should prospects. I'm for winning now, not 3-4 years from now. We have a pretty good team now. We need maybe 1 OF and were set. Its up to the pitching, this team will flat out hit.

oeo
12-15-2007, 04:51 PM
I'll take the tried and true Konerko, who puts up great #'s year after year, one the best 1b in the game, great clubhouse guy, over some could/should prospects. I'm for winning now, not 3-4 years from now. We have a pretty good team now. We need maybe 1 OF and were set. Its up to the pitching, this team will flat out hit.

If you were for winning now, you would trade Konerko and fill a couple other holes. It's up to the pitching...you're right. Trade Konerko for a CF, 1B, and a starting pitcher and we're a better team.

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2007, 05:05 PM
I'll take the tried and true Konerko, who puts up great #'s year after year, one the best 1b in the game, great clubhouse guy, over some could/should prospects. I'm for winning now, not 3-4 years from now. We have a pretty good team now. We need maybe 1 OF and were set. Its up to the pitching, this team will flat out hit.
I want to win next year and in three to four years...certainly I see the benefits in both sides of the arguement, but I think if we want to win next year, we should keep Konerko. It's going to be awfully hard to replace his bat in the lineup and we tend to overlook his fielding which has vastly improved since he got here...I think I'm too much of a Konerko fan to trade him, which is why I'd be an awful GM.

Tragg
12-15-2007, 05:07 PM
What about Konerko and McDougal for Orlando Hudson, Owings and Qualls. Then use the money you save and sign Mike Cameron even though he's got the 25 game suspension hanging over his head. That means starting May 1 you've got gold glove talent at second, short, third and center. You're not going to outslug the Tigers and Indians so do your best to keep them from scoring. Also while it wouldn't exactly be a team of jackrabbits the team speed would be improved.

No - we already traded for a 2b. We have traded for numerous middle relievers. Owings is interesting but we have a stable full of young pitchers.
Let's use Konerko for something we really need or will need- a leadoff hitter, a young SS, etc.

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2007, 05:10 PM
No - we already traded for a 2b. We have traded for numerous middle relievers. Owings is interesting but we have a stable full of young pitchers.
Let's use Konerko for something we really need or will need- a leadoff hitter, a young SS, etc.
We already traded for a shortstop too...we really need a leadoff guy more than anything else right now (well...and a legit CF). Also we could use some starting pitching.

HITMEN OF 77
12-15-2007, 05:17 PM
I think I'm too much of a Konerko fan to trade him, which is why I'd be an awful GM.

My feelings exactly. I just hope you keep him and get another OF somehow some way.

Tragg
12-15-2007, 05:32 PM
We already traded for a shortstop too...we really need a leadoff guy more than anything else right now (well...and a legit CF). Also we could use some starting pitching.
Fine, but that trade had no for sure starter in there. Micah Owings is okay -but he's basically Danks or Floyd experience wise.
As for Hudson, he's in a walk year. Is it really a judicious use of resources to acquire players in walk years? How do we replace them next year?
And, yes, the SS the Sox traded for after signing a SS to $4.5 mill, is in a walk year, so we'll need one of those this time next year.
Arizona has been doing a lot of trading - they likely don't have what we need.

doctor30th
12-15-2007, 10:55 PM
Fine, but that trade had no for sure starter in there. Micah Owings is okay -but he's basically Danks or Floyd experience wise.

And, yes, the SS the Sox traded for after signing a SS to $4.5 mill, is in a walk year, so we'll need one of those this time next year.

I believe they are working on a deal to sign Cabrera to a extention. I would still rather have Danks, Floyd and Owings. Nice to have extra arms and they can be used for other trades later on. I would like rotation of: Buerhle, Vazquez, Contreras, and a combination of Danks, Owings, and Broadway. (sorry Floyd)

I still think that Angels are a better fit. They have a surplus of what the Sox need, and a need for what we have.

I think they are as good of a fit as the Diamondbacks I had just not heard anything about them lately. I don't know how much they would give up but it would be interesting. If we were able to get Casey Kotchman, Ervin Santana, and Reggie Willits and maybe some prospects for Konerko.

I think they have soured on Santana and would be unwilling to give up Joe Saunders, I also don't think they would give up Morales over Kotchman especially if they were picking up Konerko. Willits Has played alot of CF he has speed has lead off so he could answer alot of questions.

If you added Crede to that mix, you might be able to get Kotchman, Santana, Willits, and Figgins. The Angels had mentioned that they would consider trading Figgins if they picked up a 3rd baseman.

What about Konerko and McDougal for Orlando Hudson, Owings and Qualls. Then use the money you save and sign Mike Cameron even though he's got the 25 game suspension hanging over his head.

Now way to Cameron or Hudson. I like Hudson, but if your giving up Konerko's power you have to get someone like Conor Jackson back. He's very patient at the plate and has not even played a full season yet. He's got alot of potential and would be under control until 2012.


I also love Konerko, and would not actually like to see him traded. but I'm just presenting it from what you can get now. On top of it, if you don't trade him before May, he becomes a 10-5 guy so he can void any trade.

doctor30th
12-15-2007, 11:17 PM
Lineups? each lineup shows some possibilities of what it could look like if we traded Konerko (and in one case Konerko and Crede) to a particular team.

Diamondbacks
1B Conor Jackson
2B Chris Burke
3B Josh Fields
SS Orlando Cabrera
C AJ Pierzynski
LF Carlos Quentin
CF Rich Thompson/Jeff Salazar/Jerry Owens
RFJermaine Dye
SPBuerhle
SPVazquez
SPContreras
SPOwings
SPBroadway/Danks

Angels
1b Casey Kotchman
2b Richar/Uribe
3b Josh Fields/Crede
ss Orlando Cabrera
c AJ Pierzynski
lf Carlos Quentin
cf Reggie Willits
rf Jermaine Dye
Buerhle
Vazquez
Contreras
Santana
Danks/Broadway

Angels (Crede)
1b Casey Kotchman
2b Figgins
3b Josh Fields
ss Orlando Cabrera
c AJ Pierzynski
lf Carlos Quentin
cf Reggie Willits
rf Jermaine Dye
Buerhle
Vazquez
Contreras
Santana
Danks/Broadway

Optipessimism
12-15-2007, 11:52 PM
Fine, but that trade had no for sure starter in there. Micah Owings is okay -but he's basically Danks or Floyd experience wise.
As for Hudson, he's in a walk year. Is it really a judicious use of resources to acquire players in walk years? How do we replace them next year?
And, yes, the SS the Sox traded for after signing a SS to $4.5 mill, is in a walk year, so we'll need one of those this time next year.
Arizona has been doing a lot of trading - they likely don't have what we need.

I agree with this. We shouldn't be trading for anyone in a walk year.

Optipessimism
12-16-2007, 12:13 AM
I don't think the Sox are going to trade Paulie now, but it would be nice if they did. It also looks like the DBacks are pretty much out of the picture now as they probably aren't going to want to surrender Pena or Owings now that they've added Haren and dealt Valverde, but I guess you never know. Their rotation of Webb-Haren-Davis-Owings-Billy Buckner/Randy Johnson looks pretty sick and I'd be surprised if they messed with it.

The Dodgers and Angels make some sense as does Seattle.

Actually, Seattle might make the most sense because they have a CF signed long term and another CF penciled in for RF. Plus they have Balentien ready to step in at RF and they also have a bad contract in Sexson. They also need pitching which we have an abundance of. Maybe something along the lines of Konerko + Broadway for Sexson, CF Adam Jones, SS Carlos Triunfel + prospect would be a good start. We need a CF and minor league MIF depth, and in the Cell Sexson would have a better chance of rebuilding his value.

Edit: I'm actually surprised we haven't dealt with Seattle yet this offseason. They have an abundance of OF's and we need OF's, and we have an abundance of pitching while they need pitching. And we both have bad contracts to spare. It's surprising really as I figured that if we were going to deal with any team besides Philly or AZ this offseason it would be Seattle.

guillen4life13
12-16-2007, 02:03 AM
I don't think the Sox are going to trade Paulie now, but it would be nice if they did. It also looks like the DBacks are pretty much out of the picture now as they probably aren't going to want to surrender Pena or Owings now that they've added Haren and dealt Valverde, but I guess you never know. Their rotation of Webb-Haren-Davis-Owings-Billy Buckner/Randy Johnson looks pretty sick and I'd be surprised if they messed with it.

The Dodgers and Angels make some sense as does Seattle.

Actually, Seattle might make the most sense because they have a CF signed long term and another CF penciled in for RF. Plus they have Balentien ready to step in at RF and they also have a bad contract in Sexson. They also need pitching which we have an abundance of. Maybe something along the lines of Konerko + Broadway for Sexson, CF Adam Jones, SS Carlos Triunfel + prospect would be a good start. We need a CF and minor league MIF depth, and in the Cell Sexson would have a better chance of rebuilding his value.

Edit: I'm actually surprised we haven't dealt with Seattle yet this offseason. They have an abundance of OF's and we need OF's, and we have an abundance of pitching while they need pitching. And we both have bad contracts to spare. It's surprising really as I figured that if we were going to deal with any team besides Philly or AZ this offseason it would be Seattle.

I really do not want to see Richie Sexson on the Sox.

kwkonsl
12-16-2007, 02:28 AM
I agree no Sexson. I like the young Arizona players and the Angels players that have been mentioned

KyWhiSoxFan
12-16-2007, 08:20 AM
Edit: I'm actually surprised we haven't dealt with Seattle yet this offseason. They have an abundance of OF's and we need OF's, and we have an abundance of pitching while they need pitching. And we both have bad contracts to spare. It's surprising really as I figured that if we were going to deal with any team besides Philly or AZ this offseason it would be Seattle.

I don't see where the Sox have an abundance of pitching. In Danks, Floyd, Gio, Broadway, etc., they are all unproven. The Sox have three veterans--Buehrle, Vazquez, and Contreras--and a bunch of question marks. The last thing I would want to do is trade pitching for hitting. Pitching for pitching would be okay, not pitching for hitting.

If the Sox need to fill in some holes, trade a position player to fill need.

PorkChopExpress
12-16-2007, 08:21 AM
I don't think the Sox are going to trade Paulie now, but it would be nice if they did. It also looks like the DBacks are pretty much out of the picture now as they probably aren't going to want to surrender Pena or Owings now that they've added Haren and dealt Valverde, but I guess you never know. Their rotation of Webb-Haren-Davis-Owings-Billy Buckner/Randy Johnson looks pretty sick and I'd be surprised if they messed with it.

The Dodgers and Angels make some sense as does Seattle.

Actually, Seattle might make the most sense because they have a CF signed long term and another CF penciled in for RF. Plus they have Balentien ready to step in at RF and they also have a bad contract in Sexson. They also need pitching which we have an abundance of. Maybe something along the lines of Konerko + Broadway for Sexson, CF Adam Jones, SS Carlos Triunfel + prospect would be a good start. We need a CF and minor league MIF depth, and in the Cell Sexson would have a better chance of rebuilding his value.

Edit: I'm actually surprised we haven't dealt with Seattle yet this offseason. They have an abundance of OF's and we need OF's, and we have an abundance of pitching while they need pitching. And we both have bad contracts to spare. It's surprising really as I figured that if we were going to deal with any team besides Philly or AZ this offseason it would be Seattle.

This is an interesting point. If we are truly still looking to unload Contreras and his contract (not sure if it is even a bad contract in this market) there is a lot these two teams could do for each other. Bad contract for bad contract, plus fill in some holes for one another.