PDA

View Full Version : Will the White Sox look to re-build after 2008?


JermaineDye05
12-01-2007, 11:28 PM
Now I know there is plenty of offseason left, and I am not thinking the season is over by any means. I know Kenny has plenty of moves left and that this team won't be finished until the last week of spring training most likely. I just had a hypothetical question. Suppose the White Sox have another season like 2007 maybe not quite as bad but end up missing the playoffs. Do you guys see Kenny going into a re-build mode. Considering this team has a lot of people above the age of 30 and each of the free agents they are supposedly targeting are fairly old. The White Sox don't really have many 'can't miss prospects' waiting in the wings. The veterans I assume Kenny will not be trading are Buehrle, Vazquez (if he has another season like 2007), Cabrera (Kenny sounded as if he really wants to keep this guy in a WS uniform for a while), and maybe AJ. Everyone else, with exception to the younger guys (Jenks, Danks, Fields, Floyd, etc.) I assume could end up being traded for young talent. Now I want to remind people before they reply I am not condemning this team in 2008 by any means, I realize that there is plenty of offseason left and I know that Kenny is not done. I just wanted to know that IF the sox managed to miss the playoffs again having a sub-par season, Do you feel Kenny will try to re-build the team?

WhiteSox5187
12-02-2007, 12:23 AM
If we have another 90 loss year in '08, then yea. A potential problem with trading some of those vets is that they have no trade clauses, but I'm willing to bet they'd wave them...but it depends. If the Sox have a year like '03 or '04 where they come in second, Kenny is going to keep building for now. If they win anywhere between 82-85 wins I think Kenny is going to look to win now...in short, I think nothing less than another ninety loss season will convince Kenny to look beyond the next season. He's always said that the Sox goal is to win a championship every year, and I think he will continue to build his teams in that way for a while.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2007, 12:30 PM
If this season goes like the one in 2007 what choice does Kenny have?

In fact I'll go 'one step beyond' and say that if the Sox are as bad off in July 2007 as they were in July 2006, then he'll start to unload.

When you think about it, that would be in an incredible situation to be in less then three seasons removed from winning a World Series and then following it up with a 90 win season.

But without financial flexibility (as Phil Rogers likes to say) or a boatload of actual prospects in the minor leagues he doesn't have a lot of options.

Lip

Daver
12-02-2007, 12:57 PM
They need to start this year, with the amateur draft, and target position players in the early rounds.

gogosox16
12-02-2007, 01:01 PM
They need to start this year, with the amateur draft, and target position players in the early rounds.
Danks brother:D:

Tragg
12-02-2007, 01:01 PM
If they wanted to rebuild, why not do it this year after a 72 win season? The entire outfield had expired contracts, as did SS, and 3B, C and several pitchers were coming up fast. They shouldn't have used the best trading piece for a rent, nor extended a lot of players they did, if they wanted to backtrack and rebuild in 2008.

gogosox16
12-02-2007, 01:05 PM
If they wanted to rebuild, why not do it this year after a 72 win season? The entire outfield had expired contracts, as did SS, and 3B, C and several pitchers were coming up fast. They shouldn't have used the best trading piece for a rent, nor extended a lot of players they did, if they wanted to backtrack and rebuild in 2008.
Damn they could have rebuilt this year and had an outfield of Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney

Tragg
12-02-2007, 01:08 PM
Damn they could have rebuilt this year and had an outfield of Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney
Well, that's what you get when you rebuild.
The Sox haven't followed that path in a long time.

Oh, and as of now, that's what we have for 2/3 of our outfield.

gogosox16
12-02-2007, 01:11 PM
Well, that's what you get when you rebuild.
The Sox haven't followed that path in a long time.

Oh, and as of now, that's what we have for 2/3 of our outfield.
Yeah but we need Anderson to start over JD for us to be official rebuilding

southsideirish71
12-02-2007, 01:22 PM
Danks brother:D:

Danks brother would be a complete overdraft with the 8th overall draft. Danks brother is not a 10 ten talent as it stands now. Now if he has a breakout season this year maybe. A couple more losses and we would of had a shot at Alvarez which is more or an impact bat. The two of them competed on the same teams over the summer and the stats were at different ends of the spectrum. Alvarez showed nice power and a good average and Danks was a bit over matched.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Tragg:

I can think of two reasons why they didn't 'rebuild' now for what they may be worth.

1. Kenny has a lof of faith in this group of guys and wants to give them as much rope as possible to prove last year was a fluke.

2. If Kenny announced the Sox were rebuilding in the middle of ticket sales for the 2008 season...well he probably wouldn't be getting any Christmas cards from his bosses. If Kenny uses those words outright, Sox attendance will drop like a ten pound weight in a swimming pool.

Now I grant you the reality is that this team may be bad and may in fact not even be close to "contending." But from a business standpoint and from how Sox fans would react two years removed from winning a World Series, to me, it would simply be like cutting your own throat.

Lip

rdivaldi
12-02-2007, 11:45 PM
If we do have a 2007-like season in 2008 we will unload some guys, but determining who those guys is an interesting question. Like most teams, our roster is mostly guys who are sub-30 that we have the rights to for at least a couple more years.

Looking at the 40-man I only see 12 players over the age of 30 on April 1, 2008.

Cabrera
Contreras
Dye
Hall
Konerko
Linebrink
MacDougal
Ozuna
Pierzynski
Thome
Thornton
Vazquez

How many of those guys could/would KW unload? I can't imagine that Konerko, Linebrink, Ozuna, Pierzynski, Thornton or Vazquez would be due their favorable contracts or KW's grinder love. That leaves Cabrera, Contreras, Dye, Hall, MacDougal and Thome.

How many of these guys would we all shed a collective tear over if they were traded? 3?

Fantosme
12-02-2007, 11:54 PM
They would have an easier time rebuilding if they take the best available player in the draft for once, rather than whoever is the cheapest. This is not Pittsburgh. A team with a payroll as high as the Sox should not be trying to save a few bucks in the draft.

The Yankees, Tigers, and Red Sox have some of the best farm systems in baseball because they always take the best available player, not the cheapest available player.

rdivaldi
12-03-2007, 08:04 AM
They would have an easier time rebuilding if they take the best available player in the draft for once, rather than whoever is the cheapest. This is not Pittsburgh. A team with a payroll as high as the Sox should not be trying to save a few bucks in the draft.

The Yankees, Tigers, and Red Sox have some of the best farm systems in baseball because they always take the best available player, not the cheapest available player.

???

That's a completely unfounded statement. The only thing you can accuse the Sox of is avoiding Boras clients.

As for the Yankees, Red Sox and Tigers taking the "best available", that is a matter of opinion. Look at the Yankees drafts over the past 5 years, they're pretty awful.

soxtalker
12-03-2007, 11:58 AM
Tragg:

I can think of two reasons why they didn't 'rebuild' now for what they may be worth.

1. Kenny has a lof of faith in this group of guys and wants to give them as much rope as possible to prove last year was a fluke.

2. If Kenny announced the Sox were rebuilding in the middle of ticket sales for the 2008 season...well he probably wouldn't be getting any Christmas cards from his bosses. If Kenny uses those words outright, Sox attendance will drop like a ten pound weight in a swimming pool.

Now I grant you the reality is that this team may be bad and may in fact not even be close to "contending." But from a business standpoint and from how Sox fans would react two years removed from winning a World Series, to me, it would simply be like cutting your own throat.

Lip

I also suspect that the business of baseball in general has shifted a bit in the past few years, and that teams aren't nearly so willing to give up their good prospects as they were a few years ago. It's not that KW couldn't do it, but it's probably gotten harder.

spiffie
12-03-2007, 12:06 PM
???

That's a completely unfounded statement. The only thing you can accuse the Sox of is avoiding Boras clients.

As for the Yankees, Red Sox and Tigers taking the "best available", that is a matter of opinion. Look at the Yankees drafts over the past 5 years, they're pretty awful.
They picked up Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy in the 1st rd in 2006. Those two alone pretty much blow away the entire draft history of the Sox for the last 5 years. And oh yeah, Hughes with their 1st rd pick in 2004. And Austin Jackson with the 8th rd pick in 2005. The early part of the decade is pretty ugly for the Yankees, but they've pulled some high quality players the last few years.

thomas35forever
12-03-2007, 03:39 PM
True that it's early in the offseason, but if the '08 season is at all like '07, then it'll be time to start breaking the core players up. You can't have a club that wins a World Series one year, misses the playoffs the next, and then goes down the proverbial crapper every year after that. Baseball economics is very strange, and '05 was the year it worked in our favor.

russ99
12-03-2007, 04:47 PM
I agree, but Kenny's job is on the line to make sure it doesn't go down the crapper.

I also think the Sox really don't plan to rebuild as long as Jerry owns the team, since if they do the attendance will fall back to late 90s levels.

rdivaldi
12-03-2007, 05:37 PM
They picked up Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy in the 1st rd in 2006. Those two alone pretty much blow away the entire draft history of the Sox for the last 5 years. And oh yeah, Hughes with their 1st rd pick in 2004. And Austin Jackson with the 8th rd pick in 2005. The early part of the decade is pretty ugly for the Yankees, but they've pulled some high quality players the last few years.

I like the potential of Chamberlain and Hughes, Kennedy is good, Austin Jackson has a long way to go. I still don't see what this has to do with "best available". I see it as good scouting.

rdivaldi
12-03-2007, 05:38 PM
the attendance will fall back to late 90s levels.

Actually I think those days are gone. With the gentrification of the neighborhood and the ballpark improvements we'll never drop that far.