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Rockabilly
11-28-2007, 10:06 AM
Ken Rosenthal mentions that the Twins are about to get a CF but doesn't mention who it might be.. I can't wait for the Sox get their CF im dying to know who it might be

Also they are looking to trade Joe Nathan to bad they wouldn't ship to the Sox

Angels might get Johan Santana?

veeter
11-28-2007, 10:09 AM
They're getting Crisp.

Rockabilly
11-28-2007, 10:10 AM
They're getting Crisp.


I wouldn't mind getting Crisp as long as we got Crawford or Cabera in LF.

voodoochile
11-28-2007, 10:18 AM
I wouldn't mind getting Crisp as long as we got Crawford or Cabera in LF.

If the Sox land a CF, look for Owens in LF next season.

If the Sox land a LF, look for Owens in CF next season.

One of the prerequisites will be that the guy they land will have to be a leadoff hitter so Owens can bat ninth.

champagne030
11-28-2007, 10:53 AM
If the Sox land a CF, look for Owens in LF next season.

If the Sox land a LF, look for Owens in CF next season.



Are we acquiring a proven 2B? No? Then......:puking:

jabrch
11-28-2007, 10:54 AM
I hope Minny gets Crisp - and pays a ton for him.

voodoochile
11-28-2007, 11:16 AM
Are we acquiring a proven 2B? No? Then......:puking:

No, I just don't think the Sox have the money in their budget to upgrade every single need position. They are going to be relying on Richar and Owens next year in some capacity, IMO.

The money they would be spending on upgrading those two positions would be better spent on a veteran 5th starter and/or more relief help.

Sockinchisox
11-28-2007, 11:21 AM
Get it done Smith, get Crisp!

chisoxmike
11-28-2007, 11:23 AM
I hope Minny gets Crisp - and pays a ton for him.

Me too. Crisp isn't very good. I hope the Twins trade a lot of for him if they make a deal.

asindc
11-28-2007, 11:24 AM
No, I just don't think the Sox have the money in their budget to upgrade every single need position. They are going to be relying on Richar and Owens next year in some capacity, IMO.

The money they would be spending on upgrading those two positions would be better spent on a veteran 5th starter and/or more relief help.

I agree. I don't think the offense will be nearly as awful as this past year, even if the Sox don't upgrade the leadoff spot and/or one of Richar/Owens has to play full time. With an average bullpen, the 2007 Sox win at least 6-7 games more than they actually did. With the offense getting back on track, add another 7-8 games. The remaining games needed to take back the AL Central will be determined by KW's moves this offseason. I personally would like to see the rotation and BP emphasized before 2B and LF/CF.

Tragg
11-28-2007, 01:05 PM
Richar's much better offensively then owens.
He has patience and Owens has none.
He has some power and Owens has none.
Owens was coddled and protected in the lineup and Richar wasn't.
Putting a hitter like Owens in left suffocates the offense.


There's no reason to have to rely on Owens in left. For what we're paying Uribe, we could get a far superior left fielder. WE could get one for what the Sox paid Cintron last year.

The other annoying thing about Owens is that he doesn't even bring good defense to the party. Richar does. And Anderson brought stellar defense.

FedEx227
11-28-2007, 01:09 PM
No, I just don't think the Sox have the money in their budget to upgrade every single need position. They are going to be relying on Richar and Owens next year in some capacity, IMO.

The money they would be spending on upgrading those two positions would be better spent on a veteran 5th starter and/or more relief help.

Jesus people, can the Sox have like 2-3 young guys?

Every youngster is unproven until he get strong major league time.

Sox fans just want prospects to all of a sudden step into the league and bat .340 and never look back, that rarely, if ever happens.

Richar is going to be a very good player, I have absolutely no problem handing him the 2B job if we can upgrade the bigger positions. CF, LF, RP, SP is what we need, in that order.

skottyj242
11-28-2007, 01:12 PM
The Twins will get Rowand. I would love to see him try and crash through that plastic bag of a wall.

voodoochile
11-28-2007, 01:14 PM
Jesus people, can the Sox have like 2-3 young guys?

Every youngster is unproven until he get strong major league time.

Sox fans just want prospects to all of a sudden step into the league and bat .340 and never look back, that rarely, if ever happens.

Richar is going to be a very good player, I have absolutely no problem handing him the 2B job if we can upgrade the bigger positions. CF, LF, RP, SP is what we need, in that order.

Actually, I'd bet the Sox only will acquire one OF position and as I said, expect Owens to fill the vacant one or Sweeney if Owens falters.

Oh and I agree about Richar. I think he's a keeper.

champagne030
11-28-2007, 01:15 PM
Jesus people, can the Sox have like 2-3 young guys?



Not as starting positional players, unless you're sure they're going to put up passable numbers. Owens as a 4th-5th OF with Richar starting, sure. Owens starting in LF and batting 9th with a proven 2nd baseman, maybe.

FedEx227
11-28-2007, 01:22 PM
Not as starting positional players, unless you're sure they're going to put up passable numbers. Owens as a 4th-5th OF with Richar starting, sure. Owens starting in LF and batting 9th with a proven 2nd baseman, maybe.

How are you sure any minor leaguer is going to put up passable numbers.

Dallas MacPherson destroyed minor league pitchers, then faltered in the majors.

Albert Pujols put up pedestrian numbers in AA-AAA and has since done pretty well for himself.

It's a crapshoot that unfortunately White Sox fans are going to have to accept if this team wants to move forward in any way.

You can't financially continue to plug holes with FA/trades, it has been proven to not work. The Yankees have not won a World Series with this method... The Red Sox won this year because they mixed highly-paid proven talent with youngsters, their starting 2B had a rough first 2-3 months of his career and turned out to be Rookie of Year.

They probably should've cut ties with him after June and signed Luis Castillo.

kba
11-28-2007, 01:22 PM
Twins insider: (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=274)

I did get a call last night about the Twins and Bostonís Coco Crisp. Crisp is really starting to get attention because clubs donít want to overpay for Aaron Rowand and Andruw Jones. I was told that 1. The Twins remain very interested in Crisp but 2. If Santana gets dealt to the Red Sox, the Twins want Jacoby Ellsbury in the deal. So thereís a chance that Santana is traded elsewhere and the Twins could go after Crisp.

champagne030
11-28-2007, 01:36 PM
How are you sure any minor leaguer is going to put up passable numbers.

Dallas MacPherson destroyed minor league pitchers, then faltered in the majors.

Albert Pujols put up pedestrian numbers in AA-AAA and has since done pretty well for himself.

It's a crapshoot that unfortunately White Sox fans are going to have to accept if this team wants to move forward in any way.

You can't financially continue to plug holes with FA/trades, it has been proven to not work. The Yankees have not won a World Series with this method... The Red Sox won this year because they mixed highly-paid proven talent with youngsters, their starting 2B had a rough first 2-3 months of his career and turned out to be Rookie of Year.

They probably should've cut ties with him after June and signed Luis Castillo.

Yes, the Red Sox went with one starting positional rookie. I'm okay with that (well, if it's Richar) if your goal is to contend this season. I'm not expecting .300/.360 out of Richar, but I'm pretty sure he can bat .230, work the count, plus provide some speed and defense. Now, if the plan is to rebuild some then trade a veteran or two, start Owens, Richar and Fields, put Danks, Floyd and Broadway into the rotation, go with Russell and Logan in the bullpen.....Kenny has stated he's going for it this year and it's going to be ugly with Owens leading off, Fields at 3rd and Richar at 2B.

FedEx227
11-28-2007, 01:52 PM
Yes, the Red Sox went with one starting positional rookie. I'm okay with that (well, if it's Richar) if your goal is to contend this season. I'm not expecting .300/.360 out of Richar, but I'm pretty sure he can bat .230, work the count, plus provide some speed and defense. Now, if the plan is to rebuild some then trade a veteran or two, start Owens, Richar and Fields, put Danks, Floyd and Broadway into the rotation, go with Russell and Logan in the bullpen.....Kenny has stated he's going for it this year and it's going to be ugly with Owens leading off, Fields at 3rd and Richar at 2B.

Which is one of Kenny's problems, he's stubborn.

This team is not going to contend. While we may get lucky and do some damage that'd be nice, but I'm going into this season knowing full well this team isn't going to blow away the AL. If it does, awesome, but I'm not expecting it like I was in 2005.

I think the best thing Kenny can do right now is quietly rebuild which would be have your vets still in there, but also get your young guys some time. We're going to see that with 3 youngsters in the rotation and you're likely going to see that with Fields and Richar at 3B and 2B. Now, I'm in the camp of getting a legit leadoff CF and put Owens 9th and in LF, because there's no doubt in my mind if we break camp with Owens in CF and leading off this team doesn't have a chance.

So I'm not saying blow up the team, but Kenny stop saying you aren't "rebuilding" clearly you are.

But I definitely agree, Owens LF and 9th is the only thing I want, no leadoff and CF for him. But Richar and Fields are both keepers.

jabrch
11-28-2007, 02:03 PM
Owens showed significant growth in the second half as he had more and more ABs. I have no problem with him again leading off and playing every day in CF or LF.

He hit .340/.396 in 106 PA in September. It is amusing to hear the WSIGMs talk about him as if he can't contribute as a leadoff hitter.

FedEx227
11-28-2007, 02:05 PM
Owens showed significant growth in the second half as he had more and more ABs. I have no problem with him again leading off and playing every day in CF or LF.

He hit .340/.396 in 106 PA in September. It is amusing to hear the WSIGMs talk about him as if he can't contribute as a leadoff hitter.

Hey, I'll accept it. I just think he'd at this point be great as a LF/9th hitter and that's just by virtue of us hopefully getting a CFer that can lead off. If Owens has to leadoff though, no biggie... I just think his defense, mainly his arm is a killer in CF. He's a perfect LF, though.

Rockabilly
11-28-2007, 02:12 PM
Wow! That rumor really didn't die! La Velle E. Neal III says (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=276) the Twins are close to a multiplayer deal. They'd send Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and Juan Rincon to the Rays for Delmon Young, Brendan Harris, and Jason Pridie


I guess they wont be trading Crawford than

cbrownson13
11-28-2007, 02:14 PM
It's Delmon Young the Twins are close to getting, not Coco Crisp...per rotoworld:

The Twins are close to landing Delmon Young from the Twins in a six-player deal that would send Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett and Juan Rincon to Tampa Bay.
The Twins would also pick up Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie, the Star Tribune's La Velle E. Neal III reports. Young would likely play right field in Minnesota, with Michael Cuddyer moving to left. Nick Punto could replace Bartlett, leaving Harris to take over at second until Alexi Casilla is ready. The Rays would be opening up room in the outfield for Rocco Baldelli or Elijah Dukes. Jonny Gomes' chances of sticking around would also seem to increase.

oeo
11-28-2007, 02:19 PM
Wow! That rumor really didn't die! La Velle E. Neal III says (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=276) the Twins are close to a multiplayer deal. They'd send Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and Juan Rincon to the Rays for Delmon Young, Brendan Harris, and Jason Pridie


I guess they wont be trading Crawford than

I guess that means Crawford won't be going anywhere. I don't know much about Harris and Pridie (they both look pretty solid, though), but Bartlett is not very good and Rincon is on the decline. Delmon Young is a stud...Garza might be a stud. Sounds like the Twins are getting the better half like usual.

JB98
11-28-2007, 02:21 PM
Jesus people, can the Sox have like 2-3 young guys?

Every youngster is unproven until he get strong major league time.

Sox fans just want prospects to all of a sudden step into the league and bat .340 and never look back, that rarely, if ever happens.

Richar is going to be a very good player, I have absolutely no problem handing him the 2B job if we can upgrade the bigger positions. CF, LF, RP, SP is what we need, in that order.

I don't expect anyone on the team, rookie or veteran, to hit .340. That's hyperbole on your part. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect guys to hit .260, however.

I'm willing to gamble on Richar. He's got some pop and some speed. He's not a gold-glove type, but he's not bad defensively. At this point, I'd be willing to trade Crede to fix other holes and give 3B to Fields. Those would be the two young guys I would go with. I'm not a believer in Owens, and my feelings about Anderson are already well documented.

I hope KW can add a couple of outfielders, preferably not Crisp. Let the Twins overpay for him. I'll actually rejoice if Minnesota makes a deal with the Red Sox. I've been worried that KW will fork over two or three players for Crisp. That would be a shame.

Sockinchisox
11-28-2007, 02:21 PM
Just great.

oeo
11-28-2007, 02:23 PM
It's Delmon Young the Twins are close to getting, not Coco Crisp...per rotoworld:

That's hilarious if the Twins still like Nick Punto. What a piece of crap that guy is. Good defender, and that's about all he does for you.

WhiteSox5187
11-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Which is one of Kenny's problems, he's stubborn.

This team is not going to contend. While we may get lucky and do some damage that'd be nice, but I'm going into this season knowing full well this team isn't going to blow away the AL. If it does, awesome, but I'm not expecting it like I was in 2005.

I think the best thing Kenny can do right now is quietly rebuild which would be have your vets still in there, but also get your young guys some time. We're going to see that with 3 youngsters in the rotation and you're likely going to see that with Fields and Richar at 3B and 2B. Now, I'm in the camp of getting a legit leadoff CF and put Owens 9th and in LF, because there's no doubt in my mind if we break camp with Owens in CF and leading off this team doesn't have a chance.

So I'm not saying blow up the team, but Kenny stop saying you aren't "rebuilding" clearly you are.

But I definitely agree, Owens LF and 9th is the only thing I want, no leadoff and CF for him. But Richar and Fields are both keepers.
I do agree with you that Kenny is stubborn, but it's hard to say "We're not going to contend" when we don't even know what hte roster will look like on OD.

oeo
11-28-2007, 03:33 PM
This team is not going to contend. While we may get lucky and do some damage that'd be nice, but I'm going into this season knowing full well this team isn't going to blow away the AL. If it does, awesome, but I'm not expecting it like I was in 2005.

I've been saying it for awhile that Kenny will not be able to build a contender in this offseason alone. But...I'll never get how everyone 'expected' 2005. That team had everything go right...to say we didn't go in with question marks, is being ignorant. Sure we ha 5 starters for the first time in years...but 3 of those 5 were Jon Garland (remember when he was called Judy?), Jose Contreras (sucked), and El Duque (old, old, old...and still wasn't anything great anyway). In the lineup...Pods and Iguchi were not proven, we had a utility man at SS, Dye and Frank had injury questions. Our bench wasn't anything spectacular either. Don't even get me started on that bullpen. Hermanson, Takatsu, Cotts, and Politte? Nothing was really eye-popping at the time besides Shingo.

So who knows...maybe Kenny can catch lightning in a bottle again. I don't think he will, but he did catch it in 2005. You didn't expect anything at this time 3 years ago.

bumptious987
11-28-2007, 03:35 PM
Also being reported on the Score and ESPN.com

Delmon Young, Harris and Pridie for Garza, Bartlett, and Rincon

santo=dorf
11-28-2007, 04:00 PM
Owens showed significant growth in the second half as he had more and more ABs. I have no problem with him again leading off and playing every day in CF or LF.

He hit .340/.396 in 106 PA in September. It is amusing to hear the WSIGMs talk about him as if he can't contribute as a leadoff hitter.
Aren't you one of the same WSIGM's that doesn't put much stock in September performances? Oh right, only when it doesn't favor your argument.

Delmon Young is a good, young fantasy player: .288 BA, 13 HR, 93 RBI's, 10 SB's

Look at the rest of his stats: .316 OBP, .408 SLG, 127 K's, 91 OPS+ :o:

How about a Juan for Juan trade? Uribe + Cash for Rincon

doublem23
11-28-2007, 04:07 PM
Owens showed significant growth in the second half as he had more and more ABs. I have no problem with him again leading off and playing every day in CF or LF.

He hit .340/.396 in 106 PA in September. It is amusing to hear the WSIGMs talk about him as if he can't contribute as a leadoff hitter.

That's because he can't. At least not on a team aiming to win anything next year.

palehozenychicty
11-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Which is one of Kenny's problems, he's stubborn.

This team is not going to contend. While we may get lucky and do some damage that'd be nice, but I'm going into this season knowing full well this team isn't going to blow away the AL. If it does, awesome, but I'm not expecting it like I was in 2005.

I think the best thing Kenny can do right now is quietly rebuild which would be have your vets still in there, but also get your young guys some time. We're going to see that with 3 youngsters in the rotation and you're likely going to see that with Fields and Richar at 3B and 2B. Now, I'm in the camp of getting a legit leadoff CF and put Owens 9th and in LF, because there's no doubt in my mind if we break camp with Owens in CF and leading off this team doesn't have a chance.

So I'm not saying blow up the team, but Kenny stop saying you aren't "rebuilding" clearly you are.

But I definitely agree, Owens LF and 9th is the only thing I want, no leadoff and CF for him. But Richar and Fields are both keepers.


Indeed. The first rational post over here in awhile. The brass can't expect everyone on this club to rebound and put up prolific numbers. I think 2009 and '10 are more realistic goals for WS contention. If they get some improvement, fantastic. It all depends on the moves that KW makes, but they don't have a system to gain talent. Baseball is a young man's game now, and the brass needs to honor that with some young talent.

dickallen15
11-28-2007, 04:35 PM
Owens showed significant growth in the second half as he had more and more ABs. I have no problem with him again leading off and playing every day in CF or LF.

He hit .340/.396 in 106 PA in September. It is amusing to hear the WSIGMs talk about him as if he can't contribute as a leadoff hitter.
Juan Uribe hit .309 with an .884 OPS in September. Maybe he can bat fifth.

Crisp talks, Boston going after Santana, anyone shocked Otis has nothing? Otis is the goods.

cws05champ
11-28-2007, 04:43 PM
Also being reported on the Score and ESPN.com

Delmon Young, Harris and Pridie for Garza, Bartlett, and Rincon

I can't believe that the Rays would trade a talent like Delmon Young. I know Garza could be a very good pitcher, but Delmon seems like sure thing.

btrain929
11-28-2007, 04:58 PM
Are we acquiring a proven 2B? No? Then......:puking:

Since KW gave up Aaron Cunningham to get Richar, he WILL be getting his chance in '08. He can't do any worse in the 9 hole than Anderson did in '06.