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View Full Version : Is this trade feasible?


PorkChopExpress
11-27-2007, 02:40 PM
Crede to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez. He is young, had a high ERA last year but an impressive K total as a reliever. I have to admit I do not know much about the Giants organization or this kid Sanchez so I may be totally off on his value, but what do you think?

munchman33
11-27-2007, 02:45 PM
Crede to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez. He is young, had a high ERA last year but an impressive K total as a reliever. I have to admit I do not know much about the Giants organization or this kid Sanchez so I may be totally off on his value, but what do you think?

Joe Crede has zero trade value. Zero. He has to play for anyone to consider trading for him.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 02:51 PM
Joe Crede has zero trade value. Zero. He has to play for anyone to consider trading for him.

That's just plain wrong. I TOTALLY disagree with you. This guy was a Silver Slugger just 2 years ago off of another rehab year. And as has been pointed out (by me to Daver), GMs have THRIVED in just the last few years off of fliers from guys from back surgery who've proven less before surgery, played not one game, and cost WAY more.

Stop saying that.

I know nothing about this pitcher, having had my rant.

PorkChopExpress
11-27-2007, 02:51 PM
Joe Crede has zero trade value. Zero. He has to play for anyone to consider trading for him.

I think that is a bit harsh. He is a high risk high reward kind of guy. Teams out there will bite. And frankly, I don't know how high the risk is. He has trade value, but not much. That's why I suggested a high ERA bullpen arm with potential on a team that will need a 3B bad if they miss out on Miguel Cabrera.

chisoxmike
11-27-2007, 02:58 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:02 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.

He's a stellar 3rd baseman, defensively speaking, with a bad back. That's proven.

At $5M, that's a ****ing bargain to some teams. And if he is TRULY better, he can hit as we've seen (also, when not 100% healthy).

I respect your opinion Mike, but this a refurb that has nothing but upside in my mind. I actually hope we keep him for just this 1 more year. Because **** the naysayers... Come July deadline, he could be gold.

spawn
11-27-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.
Word.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:08 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.
Thomas
Word.
Thomas

:tongue:

SBSoxFan
11-27-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.

Detroit? I mean, didn't they already do this with Ordonez?

spawn
11-27-2007, 03:12 PM
What about him? Frank is a DH. he's not being asked to play defense. All he has to concentrate on is his offense. Also, I don't recall Frank ever having a back operation. That's not a good comparison. Not even close.

Gammons Peter
11-27-2007, 03:13 PM
I have to admit I do not know much about the Giants organization or this kid Sanchez so I may be totally off on his value, but what do you think?


So how did you come up with his name?

spawn
11-27-2007, 03:13 PM
Detroit? I mean, didn't they already do this with Ordonez?
Detroit didn't trade for Ordonez. He was a free agent. They took a chance on signing him to a big contract. In the 3rd year of the contract, it's paid off big. But again, he wasn't traded to Detroit.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:14 PM
What about him? Frank is a DH. he's not being asked to play defense. All he has to concentrate on is his offense. Also, I don't recall Frank ever having a back operation. That's not a good comparison. Not even close.

I was calling you both an implied "doubting" Thomas.

spawn
11-27-2007, 03:15 PM
I was calling you both an implied "doubting" Thomas.
OK...I thought you were talking about Frank Thomas.

PorkChopExpress
11-27-2007, 03:18 PM
What about him? Frank is a DH. he's not being asked to play defense. All he has to concentrate on is his offense. Also, I don't recall Frank ever having a back operation. That's not a good comparison. Not even close.

Closer than you think. His injury was with his ankle/foot, the ankle/foot he plants on in his swing (offense only). He had supposedly made a comeback from this injury, but reinjured it. He has surgey on the ankle/foot (not his back, but serious surgery nonetheless). He was a huge question mark as to his ability to regain his old form and offensive production.

Face it, Crede has value. How much is yet to be determined.

SBSoxFan
11-27-2007, 03:23 PM
Detroit didn't trade for Ordonez. He was a free agent. They took a chance on signing him to a big contract. In the 3rd year of the contract, it's paid off big. But again, he wasn't traded to Detroit.

You're right, and I knew that. My point was that Detroit acquired a player coming of a major injury that was supposedly fixed by an operation in a foreign country. About the only evidence anyone had that it was fixed was Ordonez's agent's word. Ordonez hadn't played a game, and yet, Detroit gave him a huge contract. What's the greater risk going in, Ordonez's multi-year contract, or trading for Crede --- a deal that costs you some bodies and around $5M?

PorkChopExpress
11-27-2007, 03:28 PM
So how did you come up with his name?

I saw his name in some suggested trades on other boards and then just looked up his stats and bio.

chisoxmike
11-27-2007, 03:39 PM
He's a stellar 3rd baseman, defensively speaking, with a bad back. That's proven.

At $5M, that's a ****ing bargain to some teams. And if he is TRULY better, he can hit as we've seen (also, when not 100% healthy).

I respect your opinion Mike, but this a refurb that has nothing but upside in my mind. I actually hope we keep him for just this 1 more year. Because **** the naysayers... Come July deadline, he could be gold.

I just hope he can come back 100% healthy and we can somehow keep him long term. THAT, friend, could be gold.:redneck

Although, it looks like the Sox are set on Josh Fields to be the 3B for the future. By all accounts, this offseason or the trading deadline, Crede is probably going to be gone.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:40 PM
You're right, and I knew that. My point was that Detroit acquired a player coming of a major injury that was supposedly fixed by an operation in a foreign country. About the only evidence anyone had that it was fixed was Ordonez's agent's word. Ordonez hadn't played a game, and yet, Detroit gave him a huge contract. What's the greater risk going in, Ordonez's multi-year contract, or trading for Crede --- a deal that costs you some bodies and around $5M?

Crede should JUSTIFY bodies, not cost any. But in a way, I agree with Spawn and Mike. Let Joe prove. His back was repaired (we hope). He plays the best 3rd base in the AL with a ****ty back...if he can hit too, just more for us to gain from.

We're the ones in the cat-bird seat. We don't HAVE to trade Joe, and if looking at that transaction doesn't make the team better trading him than with him, then DON'T.

munchman33
11-27-2007, 03:43 PM
You're right, and I knew that. My point was that Detroit acquired a player coming of a major injury that was supposedly fixed by an operation in a foreign country. About the only evidence anyone had that it was fixed was Ordonez's agent's word. Ordonez hadn't played a game, and yet, Detroit gave him a huge contract. What's the greater risk going in, Ordonez's multi-year contract, or trading for Crede --- a deal that costs you some bodies and around $5M?

Detroit was a unique situation, and completely different.

First, Crede would require prospects. Nobody will give up prospects for a player if they aren't sure if he will be walking straight a year from now, let alone playing baseball. No matter how good he used to be.

As for the Magglio thing, Detroit had been trying for years to simply throw money at players in an attempt to get better, and were getting burned by guys going elsewhere. They were desperate and took a serious risk on Ordonez. Still, it's only money. Not prospects. And Magglio's upside is far greater than Credes. Crede will never be in an MVP debate.

We have two third basemen right now. One of them costs money, and Kenny's been trying to shed payroll to make signings. Believe me, if Kenny could get anything of value for Crede, it would've been done already. Nobody wants him, unless it's a complete giveaway.

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:49 PM
Detroit was a unique situation, and completely different.

First, Crede would require prospects. Nobody will give up prospects for a player if they aren't sure if he will be walking straight a year from now, let alone playing baseball. No matter how good he used to be.

As for the Magglio thing, Detroit had been trying for years to simply throw money at players in an attempt to get better, and were getting burned by guys going elsewhere. They were desperate and took a serious risk on Ordonez. Still, it's only money. Not prospects. And Magglio's upside is far greater than Credes. Crede will never be in an MVP debate.

We have two third basemen right now. One of them costs money, and Kenny's been trying to shed payroll to make signings. Believe me, if Kenny could get anything of value for Crede, it would've been done already. Nobody wants him, unless it's a complete giveaway.

Simply name one other SS winning, deservedly GG caliber (twice - forgive me for the GG reference Fedex), World Championship ring wearing 3B who is paid anywhere near $5M a year; injuries or otherwise and I'll stop picking on your posts.

He is way underestimated, way overlooked. Would you rather have Scott Rolen or Joe Crede next year? And look at their salaries when you consider that.

PalehosePlanet
11-27-2007, 03:51 PM
Believe me, if Kenny could get anything of value for Crede, it would've been done already. Nobody wants him, unless it's a complete giveaway.

Not true. Everyone is waiting on the Miguel Cabrera situation to finalize. When he's traded Kenny will know which teams are set and which are in need.

santo=dorf
11-27-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm with munchman on this. What team in their right mind want to trade for Crede without seeing him play? Crede can say all he wants that his back his better. The doctor can say "yeah its great." But until he plays regular season games, you don't know how healthy Crede is.
So why should the White Sox's GM bother to give him at least $4.5 million if he doesn't know how healthy Crede is? :?:

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 08:52 PM
So why should the White Sox's GM bother to give him at least $4.5 million if he doesn't know how healthy Crede is? :?:

I know what you're getting at and you should just lay the cards for all to see.

He's a bargain at his price.

That is the whole point, and that is what makes him a GOOD trading chip.

munchman33
11-28-2007, 12:40 AM
So why should the White Sox's GM bother to give him at least $4.5 million if he doesn't know how healthy Crede is? :?:

Because money isn't the issue. Everyone has money to blow on risks. But you don't give up good prospects on a high risk. That's how GM's lose jobs.

Why don't we have a Steve Phillips tag?

Grzegorz
11-28-2007, 05:38 AM
Although, it looks like the Sox are set on Josh Fields to be the 3B for the future. By all accounts, this offseason or the trading deadline, Crede is probably going to be gone.

If Crede is healthy and Fields struggles at the plate and in the field it would be crazy to trade Crede because of Borasitis.

Josh Fields has to prove himself all over again just as Joe Crede needs to do.