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Sockinchisox
11-26-2007, 08:03 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-santana&prov=ap&type=lgns

On one hand I hope to god this happens, anything to take Santana out of the division.

On the other hand, the Yankees would be awesome.

Edit: Someone please replace the 1st Santana with Twins haha.

getonbckthr
11-26-2007, 08:06 PM
I don't know Santana once every 5 days or a kings ransom having an effect everyday?

JermaineDye05
11-26-2007, 08:09 PM
I'm assuming the Twins are asking for Hughes and Chamberlain, and probably Cabrera to fill the CF hole left by Hunter.

KRS1
11-26-2007, 08:36 PM
I'm assuming the Twins are asking for Hughes and Chamberlain, and probably Cabrera to fill the CF hole left by Hunter.

I imagine the Twins would also ask for Kennedy and maybe even Horne. That would be a VERY high price to pay for the Yanks, but who knows. Three of Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Horne, and Cabrera would make for a very good haul IMO. If Horne was included with two others, I think they would probably need to add another guy though. Add him in to any combo of the other three, and I think it would get done.

BadBobbyJenks
11-26-2007, 08:43 PM
I imagine the Twins would also ask for Kennedy and maybe even Horne. That would be a VERY high price to pay for the Yanks, but who knows. Three of Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Horne, and Cabrera would make for a very good haul IMO. If Horne was included with two others, I think they would probably need to add another guy though. Add him in to any combo of the other three, and I think it would get done.


joba aint going anywhere. Hughes and Cabrera would be the centerpiece and not sure what other prospects theyd be asking for.

KRS1
11-26-2007, 08:45 PM
joba aint going anywhere. Hughes and Cabrera would be the centerpiece and not sure what other prospects theyd be asking for.

Like I said. Who knows? To get the best pitcher in baseball, Joba just may have to go somewhere.

BadBobbyJenks
11-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Like I said. Who knows? To get the best pitcher in baseball, Joba just may have to go somewhere.



Because he is untouchable, I dont have a link but I am pretty sure that has been insinuated by cashman himself.

nccwsfan
11-26-2007, 08:51 PM
I don't know Santana once every 5 days or a kings ransom having an effect everyday?

As it stands now the Yankees have a power offense and make the playoffs every year. Adding Santana to that staff would 'virtuallly' guarantee two wins during each playoff round. We all know anything could happen, but the reality is they would be a more dangerous team to face in the playoffs.

That's the bad news. The good news is we'd only have to see him pitch at most twice during the regular season.

getonbckthr
11-26-2007, 08:53 PM
As it stands now the Yankees have a power offense and make the playoffs every year. Adding Santana to that staff would 'virtuallly' guarantee two wins during each playoff round. We all know anything could happen, but the reality is they would be a more dangerous team to face in the playoffs.

That's the bad news. The good news is we'd only have to see him pitch at most twice during the regular season.
I think I prefer Minnesota keep Santana.

DumpJerry
11-26-2007, 08:54 PM
But....but.....the White Sox are working on a deal (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=94983)for Johan.....

KRS1
11-26-2007, 08:55 PM
Because he is untouchable, I dont have a link but I am pretty sure that has been insinuated by cashman himself.

He has also apparently stated that Hughes, and Kennedy were all off-limits, but if you want to trade for the best pitcher in baseball, the other team is going to want your "untouchables".

mjmcend
11-26-2007, 09:15 PM
I think I prefer Minnesota keep Santana.

Me too. I doubt they resign him, and I would rather they not get a king's ransom of salary-controlled prospects to terrorize us for the next 6 years.

Sockinchisox
11-26-2007, 09:20 PM
I seem to recall the Twins were going to ask/asking for Hughes, Jackson and Melky.

Although I'm skeptical because if thats all they wanted I assume the deal would be done already.

munchman33
11-26-2007, 09:43 PM
Because he is untouchable, I dont have a link but I am pretty sure that has been insinuated by cashman himself.

Posturing. No one is untouchable when it comes to Johan Santana.

BadBobbyJenks
11-26-2007, 09:55 PM
Posturing. No one is untouchable when it comes to Johan Santana.


we will see. I will say there is a 100% chance Joba will be a yankee with or without santana on the roster next season

Domeshot17
11-26-2007, 09:58 PM
While its still a ways away

Is anyone else possibly not looking forward to a future rotation of Hughes-Liriano-Kennedy-Baker on the twins.

Sockinchisox
11-26-2007, 10:05 PM
While its still a ways away

Is anyone else possibly not looking forward to a future rotation of Hughes-Liriano-Kennedy-Baker on the twins.

I really don't think the Twins would be getting 2 of the big 3, but who knows.

doublem23
11-26-2007, 10:46 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

Doesn't really say how detailed the talks have been. Anyways, I'm all for getting Johan out of Minnesota, but I would hope not to the Yankees or Red Sox. Blegh.

ShoelessJoeS
11-27-2007, 12:04 AM
I would love for him to be out of the Central...but not on the Yankees.

In a dream world, Johan would be traded to the Sox for scraps...but a National League team not residing in Chicago would be just fine as well.

Save McCuddy's
11-27-2007, 12:13 AM
The only thing scarier than the Twins with Santana is the Twins with whatever package they'll eventually extract for him.

ksimpson14
11-27-2007, 04:07 AM
I would rather have to face Santana once in a while then have the Twins rebuild with multiple prospect pieces. I think if a deal like that happened, the negative would be multiplied, as an already good team within the league already gets better while the division rival doesn't lose the star for nothing and gets put in the position to be right back up there

Frater Perdurabo
11-27-2007, 06:19 AM
There is a point at which it begins to become pathetic for us to count on another team getting weaker in order to remain competitive.

I wish the Sox had a sufficiently strong team that what our division rivals did was of no consequence.

Foultips
11-27-2007, 06:52 AM
The Boston papers think the Red Sox will make their Santana move today. Boston it seems will offer Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, Thomas Bowen and Coco Crisp. That will not offer Jacoby Ellsbury.

The papers point out that as much as Boston does not want to part with prospects they also can not let Santanta go to NY.

One GM told the Boston Globe

"If there was an opportunity to sign Santana to a long-term deal - and you would have to assume the Red Sox would be able to do that - yeah, I would do it. He is the best lefthanded starter in baseball. I've watched Lester the past couple of years and I've seen Buchholz pitch, and it would be a high price to pay because they have excellent potential. But it's just that: potential. What you don't know is what the upside on both pitchers are at the big league level. If you have Santana signed five or six years, a man who has won two Cy Youngs, and add the fact that Boston's offense is much better than Minnesota's, there's no question he would win even more games and be even more dominating on a team like that."

Fenway
11-27-2007, 09:22 AM
The Boston papers think the Red Sox will make their Santana move today. Boston it seems will offer Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, Thomas Bowen and Coco Crisp. That will not offer Jacoby Ellsbury.

The papers point out that as much as Boston does not want to part with prospects they also can not let Santanta go to NY.

One GM told the Boston Globe

"If there was an opportunity to sign Santana to a long-term deal - and you would have to assume the Red Sox would be able to do that - yeah, I would do it. He is the best lefthanded starter in baseball. I've watched Lester the past couple of years and I've seen Buchholz pitch, and it would be a high price to pay because they have excellent potential. But it's just that: potential. What you don't know is what the upside on both pitchers are at the big league level. If you have Santana signed five or six years, a man who has won two Cy Youngs, and add the fact that Boston's offense is much better than Minnesota's, there's no question he would win even more games and be even more dominating on a team like that."

I think they meant Mike Bowden who is StillMizzOzzie's nephew. That would be awful for SMO if his nephew became a Twin :o:

Hank Steinbrenner won't shut up and keeps saying what NYY will do which has to be driving Cashman nuts.

Will Boston bid for Santana? More than likely to try to keep him away from the Yankees.

Pretty obvious that the Twins will make the deal now instead of during the season.

Boston will NOT offer Ellsbury

skottyj242
11-27-2007, 09:32 AM
I would love for this to happen. It gets him out of the Central and he would piss off Red Sawx fans. Double play, although I wouldn't want to see a one two of Joba, Nathan to end a game. See you at the crossroads, so you won't be lonely......

jenn2080
11-27-2007, 09:35 AM
There is a point at which it begins to become pathetic for us to count on another team getting weaker in order to remain competitive.

I wish the Sox had a sufficiently strong team that what our division rivals did was of no consequence.


What he said

oeo
11-27-2007, 09:41 AM
There is a point at which it begins to become pathetic for us to count on another team getting weaker in order to remain competitive.

I wish the Sox had a sufficiently strong team that what our division rivals did was of no consequence.

They won't be weaker, though. Well, maybe for about a year, and that's it. They will likely get two top-of-the-rotation guys...which does not bear well for the Sox.

I hope they either just lose him to free agency (about 0.00000000001% chance of that happening), or they trade him to the NL so we at least don't have to put up with him anymore (but we will still have to up with a Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain).

balke
11-27-2007, 09:50 AM
They need an answer to Beckett for sure. I'd like to see the move, because he'll get so much money. I hate the idea of a Santana/Liriano season too.

mjmcend
11-27-2007, 10:09 AM
They need an answer to Beckett for sure. I'd like to see the move, because he'll get so much money. I hate the idea of a Santana/Liriano season too.

I hate the idea of Liriano, Hughes, Joba, Chamberlain, ect. seasons for years to come more.

JohnTucker0814
11-27-2007, 10:19 AM
I hate the idea of Liriano, Hughes, Joba, Chamberlain, ect. seasons for years to come more.

I know he's a big guy, but 2 guys??? Wow!!! How do we get a guy like this?

:redneck

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Reason # 1,028,671,203,385 why I hate the Red Sox: They actually make me root for the Yankees or Mets to win the Santana derby. The only thing worse than the Spankees buying him would be the BloSox. Here's hoping the Twinks are in love with Lastings Milledge & Mike Pelphrey & co.....

By the way - it's also reason #1,023,585 why the Sox are screwed by their lack of production from the farm. Their alternatives seem to be "Deal away whatever good youth we do have leaving the system completely bereft" or "watch as competitors use their strong farm systems to trade for impact players".:angry:

Foulke You
11-27-2007, 10:35 AM
Reason # 1,028,671,203,385 why I hate the Red Sox: They actually make me root for the Yankees or Mets to win the Santana derby. The only thing worse than the Spankees buying him would be the BloSox. Here's hoping the Twinks are in love with Lastings Milledge & Mike Pelphrey & co.....
I don't share the hate of the Red Sox you do but I also would rather have the Yanks get Santana then Boston. If the Red Sox nab Santana, barring injuries, they become practically unbeatable in the postseason. Santana and Beckett would be a 1-2 knockout punch to AL playoff hopefuls. If the Yanks get Santana, they certainly become better and more dangerous in the playoffs but not unbeatable. If the Twins were smart, they'd trade him to an NL club where he has no potential to haunt them later. Here is hoping the Mets or Cardinals get him.

Fenway
11-27-2007, 10:38 AM
I don't share the hate of the Red Sox you do but I also would rather have the Yanks get Santana then Boston. If the Red Sox nab Santana, barring injuries, they become practically unbeatable in the postseason. Santana and Beckett would be a 1-2 knockout punch to AL playoff hopefuls. If the Yanks get Santana, they certainly become better and more dangerous in the playoffs but not unbeatable. If the Twins were smart, they'd trade him to an NL club where he has no potential to haunt them later. Here is hoping the Mets or Cardinals get him.

Forget the post-season...Boston has to GET there.

Everyone forgets that when the dust settled this year NYY only finished 2 games behind the Red Sox. But what saved the Yankees was that the Tigers blew the wild card by going into the tank.

You can't play for the wild card...you have to win the division. Whoever gets Santana becomes the favorite in the East

asindc
11-27-2007, 11:03 AM
Forget the post-season...Boston has to GET there.

Everyone forgets that when the dust settled this year NYY only finished 2 games behind the Red Sox. But what saved the Yankees was that the Tigers blew the wild card by going into the tank.

You can't play for the wild card...you have to win the division. Whoever gets Santana becomes the favorite in the East

I agree with this assessment. If Zumuya didn't go down early in the season, the Tigers' season might have turned out differently. I'm also not sold on Beckett sustaining this level of excellence. He just seems like an on-again/off-again type of pitcher.

balke
11-27-2007, 11:16 AM
I hate the idea of Liriano, Hughes, Joba, Chamberlain, ect. seasons for years to come more.

I like the Sox against any of those guys over Santana. He plays every series v. the Sox, and wins just about every game. Hughes wouldn't have that kind of success. Chamberlain would be just another lights out Twins reliever, nothing new there.

Foulke You
11-27-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm also not sold on Beckett sustaining this level of excellence. He just seems like an on-again/off-again type of pitcher.
Very true. Beckett's first year in Boston wasn't horrible but it wasn't exactly dominating either. I think he won 15 games but I remember he went through a stretch where he was getting knocked around a bit. However, if Beckett has finally "figured it out" in the AL, he could be turning the corner on his career and he always seems to be money in the postseason.

mjmcend
11-27-2007, 12:20 PM
I like the Sox against any of those guys over Santana. He plays every series v. the Sox, and wins just about every game. Hughes wouldn't have that kind of success. Chamberlain would be just another lights out Twins reliever, nothing new there.

Santana would only be on the Twins for one more year and I don't see the Twins competing. I would concede those 3 or 4 losses next year in turn for not seeing a boatload of prospects terrorize us for the next 5 or 6 years.

nccwsfan
11-27-2007, 12:35 PM
Santana would only be on the Twins for one more year and I don't see the Twins competing. I would concede those 3 or 4 losses next year in turn for not seeing a boatload of prospects terrorize us for the next 5 or 6 years.

Nathan will be gone by this time next year, and in a few years Morneau will be gone. Plus there are no guarantees on how good a prospect will turn out. They should be pretty good, but I'd rather get the certain thing out of the division.

mjmcend
11-27-2007, 12:42 PM
Nathan will be gone by this time next year, and in a few years Morneau will be gone. Plus there are no guarantees on how good a prospect will turn out. They should be pretty good, but I'd rather get the certain thing out of the division.

They won't get normal prospects. They will get the cream of the crop, near 100% certainty guys. And that sure thing will be out of the division in 2009, and in a way doesn't help the Twins long term (other than draft picks, which have a much greater likelihood of not panning out compared to top major league ready young talent.)

ma-gaga
11-27-2007, 12:44 PM
...and in a few years Morneau will be gone...

Yeah, that 2011 season is pretty much going to be a killer for the Twins.

Morneau is under Twins control with 1 year arbitration raises the next 3 years. So, yeah, he doesn't have a long-term deal, but the Twins really don't need to offer him one either.

Fenway
11-27-2007, 01:02 PM
A Twins writer thinks the Red Sox can get him for cheaper than we thought because of Coco

Will it cost Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Hughes? More likely Melky Cabrera and one of Hughes or Kennedy, according to the Minnesota Star-Tribune’s Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1574909.html) (who also suggests a Coco Crisp and one of Lester or Buchholz package from the Red Sox might get a deal done). If that doesn’t seem exactly like a blockbuster, keep in mind the hefty contract extension that will likely be part of any deal. Santana, who has a limited no-trade clause, was 15-13 last season in a campaign in which his ERA was higher than in any other season where he had more than four starts.
OK, so it was 3.33, still by Santana’s standards, somewhat stratospheric.


http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/11/27/risk_vs_reward/
In his latest annual Baseball Bible, stats guru Bill James has projected a 10-10 season for pitcher Jon Lester in 2008, a year which could prove to be the lefty’s first full-time foray in the starting rotation.
But whether that will that take place in Boston, Oakland or Minnesota is the question.

nccwsfan
11-27-2007, 01:18 PM
Yeah, that 2011 season is pretty much going to be a killer for the Twins.

Morneau is under Twins control with 1 year arbitration raises the next 3 years. So, yeah, he doesn't have a long-term deal, but the Twins really don't need to offer him one either.

Just thinking ahead...:redneck My point was that I'm not too concerned about the Twins anytime soon. Everyone assumes that the players they get for Santana will beat us up over the next couple of years, but the reality is we don't know. What we do know is that just about every time Santana has pitched against the Sox he wins the game.

mjmcend
11-27-2007, 01:32 PM
Just thinking ahead...:redneck My point was that I'm not too concerned about the Twins anytime soon. Everyone assumes that the players they get for Santana will beat us up over the next couple of years, but the reality is we don't know. What we do know is that just about every time Santana has pitched against the Sox he wins the game.

But's that only going to be about 4 or 5 more games total then his days as a Twin are over. I would rather take our lumps next year than deal with the possibility of playing against 3 very good players for the next 5 or 6 years.

GAsoxfan
11-27-2007, 01:39 PM
A Twins writer thinks the Red Sox can get him for cheaper than we thought because of Coco

Will it cost Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Hughes? More likely Melky Cabrera and one of Hughes or Kennedy, according to the Minnesota Star-Tribune’s Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1574909.html) (who also suggests a Coco Crisp and one of Lester or Buchholz package from the Red Sox might get a deal done). If that doesn’t seem exactly like a blockbuster, keep in mind the hefty contract extension that will likely be part of any deal. Santana, who has a limited no-trade clause, was 15-13 last season in a campaign in which his ERA was higher than in any other season where he had more than four starts.
OK, so it was 3.33, still by Santana’s standards, somewhat stratospheric.


http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/11/27/risk_vs_reward/
In his latest annual Baseball Bible, stats guru Bill James has projected a 10-10 season for pitcher Jon Lester in 2008, a year which could prove to be the lefty’s first full-time foray in the starting rotation.
But whether that will that take place in Boston, Oakland or Minnesota is the question.

If that's all they were going to get for Santana, what's the point in trading him? Make a run with Santana and Liriano in 2008, and then take the draft picks.

Foulke You
11-27-2007, 01:40 PM
Yeah, that 2011 season is pretty much going to be a killer for the Twins.

Morneau is under Twins control with 1 year arbitration raises the next 3 years. So, yeah, he doesn't have a long-term deal, but the Twins really don't need to offer him one either.
Don't be so sure that the Twins will lose Morneau. By that time, the Twins will be nestled in their new outdoor stadium with luxury suite revenue coming in. Pohlad could be in more of a spending mood with new revenue streams coming to the ballclub.

NardiWasHere
11-27-2007, 01:46 PM
A Twins writer thinks the Red Sox can get him for cheaper than we thought because of Coco

Will it cost Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Hughes? More likely Melky Cabrera and one of Hughes or Kennedy, according to the Minnesota Star-Tribune’s Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1574909.html) (who also suggests a Coco Crisp and one of Lester or Buchholz package from the Red Sox might get a deal done). If that doesn’t seem exactly like a blockbuster, keep in mind the hefty contract extension that will likely be part of any deal. Santana, who has a limited no-trade clause, was 15-13 last season in a campaign in which his ERA was higher than in any other season where he had more than four starts.
OK, so it was 3.33, still by Santana’s standards, somewhat stratospheric.


Crisp and Lester? That doesn't sound enough to me. Am I reading your post correctly?

aryzner
11-27-2007, 01:47 PM
Anything that takes Santana out of our division and blowing away our hitters all year is fine by me, even if he goes to the AL East. I'm more worried about the Sox actually making the playoffs again. Once they can do that, THEN I'll worry about Santana in the postseason.

KRS1
11-27-2007, 03:22 PM
A Twins writer thinks the Red Sox can get him for cheaper than we thought because of Coco

Will it cost Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Hughes? More likely Melky Cabrera and one of Hughes or Kennedy, according to the Minnesota Star-Tribune’s Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1574909.html) (who also suggests a Coco Crisp and one of Lester or Buchholz package from the Red Sox might get a deal done). If that doesn’t seem exactly like a blockbuster, keep in mind the hefty contract extension that will likely be part of any deal. Santana, who has a limited no-trade clause, was 15-13 last season in a campaign in which his ERA was higher than in any other season where he had more than four starts.
OK, so it was 3.33, still by Santana’s standards, somewhat stratospheric.


http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/11/27/risk_vs_reward/
In his latest annual Baseball Bible, stats guru Bill James has projected a 10-10 season for pitcher Jon Lester in 2008, a year which could prove to be the lefty’s first full-time foray in the starting rotation.
But whether that will that take place in Boston, Oakland or Minnesota is the question.

This is possibly the most laughable trade speculation I've read this off-season, and after reading some of the trade ideas thrown around here and elsewhere, that is really saying something. Crisp and Lester for the best pitcher in baseball.....:rolleyes: Oh I forgot, OR Buchholz. Maybe AND Buchholz.

Fenway
11-27-2007, 03:27 PM
This is possibly the most laughable trade speculation I've read this off-season, and after reading some of the trade ideas thrown around here and elsewhere, that is really saying something. Crisp and Lester for the best pitcher in baseball.....:rolleyes: Oh I forgot, OR Buchholz. Maybe AND Buchholz.

and it was from the TWINS beat writer...sheese

Sockinchisox
11-29-2007, 02:56 PM
Olney is saying the Red Sox and Twins are now discussing a deal for Santana

Adding weight to report in the St. Paul Pioneer Press, ESPN's Buster Olney says the Twins and Red Sox are discussing a trade that would send Johan Santana to Boston for Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and a fourth player.
Charley Walters said the fourth player was Justin Masterson. Olney says it could be Michael Bowden, though that's still in flux. Bowden was viewed as the superior property a few months ago, but Masterson has since overtaken him in the eyes of many. This doesn't sound as good for the Twins as a Phil Hughes-Melky Cabrera-Austin Jackson package, though if the Yankees are trying to sub in Ian Kennedy for Hughes, then Boston's offer is clearly better. The Twins would use Lester in the middle of their rotation and Crisp in center field. Lowrie could use another half-season in Triple-A, but he might get a chance to battle for a starting job at short or at second base in spring training.
Related: Jon Lester (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1061), Coco Crisp (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3522), Red Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=BOS), Yankees (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=NYY)


from rotoworld btw.

cleanwsox
11-29-2007, 03:49 PM
Lester, Crisp, and some minor leaguers?

That is robbery for the Red Sox.

kitekrazy
12-03-2007, 10:54 AM
There is a point at which it begins to become pathetic for us to count on another team getting weaker in order to remain competitive.


Hard to believe that thinking comes from a fan base whose team won the World Series 2 years ago.

Santana could make the Red Sox dominant for quite some time. But hey at least the White Sox have a better chance of winning the division.