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ChiSoxJay
11-26-2007, 08:09 AM
Hello Everyone,

Does anyone know whether KW has made an official contract offer to Rowand yet? I've read alot of speculation that the Sox are going after him but I haven't came across any links confirming an offer has been made.

Thanks

Sockinchisox
11-26-2007, 08:20 AM
Hello Everyone,

Does anyone know whether KW has made an official contract offer to Rowand yet? I've read alot of speculation that the Sox are going after him but I haven't came across any links confirming an offer has been made.

Thanks

Nope, nothing really.

spawn
11-26-2007, 08:50 AM
I'd prefer not hearing anything about anyone KW is pusuing until that player has signed on the dotted line. It seems once KW's interest in a player is sniffed out, another team comes in at the last minute with a better offer and signs him. Personally, I'd rather be surprised. Now, to answer your question...if he has made an offer to Rowand, I hope we don't hear about it. I'm still not all that interested in having him back. If he does come back, I won't be upset, but I also won't be doing backflips either.

CLR01
11-26-2007, 09:01 AM
He successfully wiped his own ass last night. Only got a little bit of poo stuck under the index finger nail.

russ99
11-26-2007, 09:27 AM
I'd expect things to be quiet on the Sox front until next week's Winter Meetings.

skobabe8
11-26-2007, 09:37 AM
He successfully wiped his own ass last night. Only got a little bit of poo stuck under the index finger nail.

I was expecting to hear he blew his nose, but you went right for the ass wipe! wow!

CLR01
11-26-2007, 10:05 AM
I was expecting to hear he blew his nose, but you went right for the ass wipe! wow!


What do you want me to say? It was a pretty big night in the Rowand household

spawn
11-26-2007, 10:09 AM
He successfully wiped his own ass last night. Only got a little bit of poo stuck under the index finger nail.
That's probably worth an added $2 million a year for whatever contract he signs. :D:

Domeshot17
11-26-2007, 10:22 AM
I heard he went running for a new roll of toilet paper for said whiping, but crashed into the bathroom closet door and because it was unpadded may not be ready to sign until mid december now

CLR01
11-26-2007, 10:30 AM
That crash earned him a gold nugget award so it's not all bad.

pagansoxfan
11-26-2007, 12:39 PM
ROMN (ROWAND OBSESSED MESSAGE NETWORK) has breaking news. Let's go live to our very own Juice McSwine. "Aaron Rowand has just switched from Scott's to Charmin. Sources indicate Rowand cut his right butt cheek, and informed his wife of his desire to change.
We will have further updates on this developing situation. Reporting live from Aaron Rowand's upstairs bathroom, this has been Juice McSwine, for ROMN."

getonbckthr
11-26-2007, 12:42 PM
I heard he took a bad route to the bathroom and ended up in the pantry.

SBSoxFan
11-26-2007, 12:44 PM
I heard he took a bad route to the bathroom and ended up in the pantry.

:rolling:

ROMN (ROWAND OBSESSED MESSAGE NETWORK) has breaking news. Let's go live to our very own Juice McSwine. "Aaron Rowand has just switched from Scott's to Charmin. Sources indicate Rowand cut his right butt cheek, and informed his wife of his desire to change.
We will have further updates on this developing situation. Reporting live from Aaron Rowand's upstairs bathroom, this has been Juice McSwine, for ROMN."

:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
11-26-2007, 05:02 PM
I heard he took a bad route to the bathroom and ended up in the pantry.

But did he crash into the wall?

TornLabrum
11-26-2007, 05:12 PM
He was out walking the dog last night in his back yard and crashed into the fence.

DumpJerry
11-26-2007, 05:18 PM
He sent Roger Bossard a Christmas Card for the new turf at The Urinal. He's hoping it won't break his ankle again.









On his way to the mailbox, he ran into a neighbor.









The neighbor is expected to make a full recovery.

tstrike2000
11-26-2007, 05:31 PM
He tried to dive onto the bed after an exhausting weekend of holiday shopping but missed and knocked himself out on the night stand.

Chrisaway
11-26-2007, 06:03 PM
ROMN (ROWAND OBSESSED MESSAGE NETWORK) has breaking news. Let's go live to our very own Juice McSwine. "Aaron Rowand has just switched from Scott's to Charmin. Sources indicate Rowand cut his right butt cheek, and informed his wife of his desire to change.
We will have further updates on this developing situation. Reporting live from Aaron Rowand's upstairs bathroom, this has been Juice McSwine, for ROMN."
POPPYCOCK!! True grinders dont use Charmin, rather sandpaper!!!:redneck

guillen4life13
11-26-2007, 06:07 PM
This has to be one of the funniest threads I've seen on WSI since I first starting reading these forums. Cheers!:gulp:

getonbckthr
11-26-2007, 06:23 PM
He was out walking the dog last night in his back yard and crashed into the fence.
Was he playing tag with the neighborhood children?

Brian26
11-26-2007, 06:52 PM
He successfully wiped his own ass last night. Only got a little bit of poo stuck under the index finger nail.

Wow.

JermaineDye05
11-26-2007, 06:57 PM
No news yet, which is good news for me. The less we hear about a deal happening the more likely it actually is to happen. We heard so much about Hunter and he signed with the Angels we heard not a thing about the White Sox being interested in Orlando Cabrera, We heard a lot about Kenny wanting Brandon Wood or Erick Aybar and Kenny picks up Cabrera. I never remember hearing a Linebrink rumor, and now he's supposedly on the verge of signing with us. So right now anythings possible right now, Kenny could be talking to Rowand or Andruw Jones as we speak or he could be working out a Carl Crawford trade. As long as we don't hear anything it's a good sign.

getonbckthr
11-26-2007, 07:01 PM
No news yet, which is good news for me. The less we hear about a deal happening the more likely it actually is to happen. We heard so much about Hunter and he signed with the Angels we heard not a thing about the White Sox being interested in Orlando Cabrera, We heard a lot about Kenny wanting Brandon Wood or Erick Aybar and Kenny picks up Cabrera. I never remember hearing a Linebrink rumor, and now he's supposedly on the verge of signing with us. So right now anythings possible right now, Kenny could be talking to Rowand or Andruw Jones as we speak or he could be working out a Carl Crawford trade. As long as we don't hear anything it's a good sign.
I wish I was hearing Rowand to the CHisox rumors right now. :D:

Sockinchisox
11-26-2007, 07:53 PM
Rowand article from the Gonzalez.

Really nothing new, just speculation, although it's interesting to hear that players confided in Rowand that they were following their own agendas last year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071126sox,1,1693234.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

DumpJerry
11-26-2007, 08:56 PM
No news yet, which is good news for me.
No news? This thread is full of news!

ksimpson14
11-27-2007, 04:10 AM
You all aren't that funny. Why not welcome him back, had a good offensive year, brings more than one dimension to the table. Money, okay, but you were going to give Hunter Ichiro money?

dickallen15
11-27-2007, 06:28 AM
Otis called and said his source is saying there's a good chance Rowand will eat breakfast this morning.

DumpJerry
11-27-2007, 07:09 AM
Otis called and said his source is saying there's a good chance Rowand will eat breakfast this morning.
:bandance::supernana::bandance::supernana:

Breakfast is good for you!

spiffie
11-27-2007, 07:31 AM
This has to be one of the funniest threads I've seen on WSI since I first starting reading these forums. Cheers!:gulp:
Must not read them often, since this happens every single time Rowand's name is mentioned. CLR is the most Rowand obsessed person on the site, including people who have Rowand in their freaking user names.

russ99
11-27-2007, 10:28 AM
Kenny better not look at the World Series videos (all 3 of them) as I did over Thanksgiving weekend.

Otherwise the Sox will sign Rowand to a $20M/season - 10 year deal! :D:

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 01:25 PM
You all aren't that funny. Why not welcome him back, had a good offensive year, brings more than one dimension to the table. Money, okay, but you were going to give Hunter Ichiro money?
A good offensive year in a contract year in a hitters ballpark. He averages 18 hrs and 66 rbi's a season thats not worth the money. I can't find 1 dimension he brings to the team let alone more than one. As far as money and Hunter and Ichiro here's how those 3 compare:
Ichiro= Joe Montana (hall of famer one of the best all time)
Hunter= Drew Bledsoe (solid QB not HoF'r but good)
Rowand = Jeff Hostetler (cult favorite, helped his team win 1 title, greatly over-rated to actual worth)

spawn
11-27-2007, 01:27 PM
A good offensive year in a contract year in a hitters ballpark. He averages 18 hrs and 66 rbi's a season thats not worth the money. I can't find 1 dimension he brings to the team let alone more than one.
I can name two: he's a good clubhouse guy, and no one can crash into a wall with the flair and gusto that he does.:D:

SBSoxFan
11-27-2007, 01:44 PM
A good offensive year in a contract year in a hitters ballpark. He averages 18 hrs and 66 rbi's a season thats not worth the money. I can't find 1 dimension he brings to the team let alone more than one. As far as money and Hunter and Ichiro here's how those 3 compare:
Ichiro= Joe Montana (hall of famer one of the best all time)
Hunter= Drew Bledsoe (solid QB not HoF'r but good)
Rowand = Jeff Hostetler (cult favorite, helped his team win 1 title, greatly over-rated to actual worth)

Ok. Suspension aside, would you rather have Rowand or Cameron?

Pasqua's Mailman
11-27-2007, 01:50 PM
Ok. Suspension aside, would you rather have Rowand or Cameron?

How about "None of the Above"? How about Owens in CF and KW go out and get a servicable LF?

Pasqua's Mailman
11-27-2007, 01:51 PM
A good offensive year in a contract year in a hitters ballpark. He averages 18 hrs and 66 rbi's a season thats not worth the money. I can't find 1 dimension he brings to the team let alone more than one. As far as money and Hunter and Ichiro here's how those 3 compare:
Ichiro= Joe Montana (hall of famer one of the best all time)
Hunter= Drew Bledsoe (solid QB not HoF'r but good)
Rowand = Jeff Hostetler (cult favorite, helped his team win 1 title, greatly over-rated to actual worth)

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

The money that it would take to sign Rowand is completely out of line with his production... He is a $7 million guy at best...

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 01:55 PM
Ok. Suspension aside, would you rather have Rowand or Cameron?
If I had to choose 1 it would be Cameron as his contract probably won't be longer than 3 yrs and probably no more than 7-8 million a year, whereas Rowand will probably get double.
Personally it would be neither. If we can't get Jones or trade for someone like Freel or Crawford i'm fine with Owens.

SBSoxFan
11-27-2007, 02:07 PM
How about "None of the Above"? How about Owens in CF and KW go out and get a servicable LF?

If I had to choose 1 it would be Cameron as his contract probably won't be longer than 3 yrs and probably no more than 7-8 million a year, whereas Rowand will probably get double.
Personally it would be neither. If we can't get Jones or trade for someone like Freel or Crawford i'm fine with Owens.

"None of the above" is fine. Without starting a poll, I just wanted a feel for how deep the Rowand angst runs. :D:

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 02:13 PM
"None of the above" is fine. Without starting a poll, I just wanted a feel for how deep the Rowand angst runs. :D:
Whoever signs Rowand will regret it after 1 season. It will be a cemented contract that won't have a chance of being moved.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 02:21 PM
A good offensive year in a contract year in a hitters ballpark. He averages 18 hrs and 66 rbi's a season thats not worth the money. I can't find 1 dimension he brings to the team let alone more than one. As far as money and Hunter and Ichiro here's how those 3 compare:
Ichiro= Joe Montana (hall of famer one of the best all time)
Hunter= Drew Bledsoe (solid QB not HoF'r but good)
Rowand = Jeff Hostetler (cult favorite, helped his team win 1 title, greatly over-rated to actual worth)
He's a .286 career hitter with a .340-plus OBP. He's a good defensive center fielder as well. That all equals good player.

The anti-Rowand stuff that has spawned on this board is ten times more ass-backwards stupid than the "Aaron Rowand is God" stuff ever was. It makes me sick.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 02:28 PM
He's a .286 career hitter with a .340-plus OBP. He's a good defensive center fielder as well. That all equals good player.

The anti-Rowand stuff that has spawned on this board is ten times more ass-backwards stupid than the "Aaron Rowand is God" stuff ever was. It makes me sick.
He's an average outfielder who's daredevil qualities has caused people to over-rate him and make him a Zeus-like figure. Would you give this contract he will get to Bernard Gilkey, Troy O'leary, Jacque Jones, Shea Hillenbrand or Mike Lamb? I didn't think so.

SBSoxFan
11-27-2007, 02:29 PM
Whoever signs Rowand will regret it after 1 season. It will be a cemented contract that won't have a chance of being moved.

Why? What bad thing do you expect to happen in that first year? At worst, you'll get consistently above average production both offensively and defensively for the life of the contract. Overpriced, sure, but not really regretful.

Domeshot17
11-27-2007, 02:33 PM
If Jerry Owens is our CF in 2008, we won't win 80 games without upgrading 2b and LF BIG TIME along with a stud SP and one more big RP

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 02:34 PM
Why? What bad thing do you expect to happen in that first year? At worst, you'll get consistently above average production both offensively and defensively for the life of the contract. Overpriced, sure, but not really regretful.
He is only average. At worst you will get **** at best you will get slightly above average. What you will get is AVERAGE. Average does not equal the contract he will recieve. If i'm paying someone 12-16 million a year I better be getting 30 + hrs, 95+ RBI's or .320 average and minimum 40 SB's.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 02:36 PM
If Jerry Owens is our CF in 2008, we won't win 80 games without upgrading 2b and LF BIG TIME along with a stud SP and one more big RP
And if Aaron Rowand or Mike Cameron is our CF'r we will not win more than 85 wins. Since this is the American League the only difference between 80 wins and 85 wins is your draft position because your both setting up TEE TIMES in October.

JermaineDye05
11-27-2007, 02:39 PM
Kenny better not look at the World Series videos (all 3 of them) as I did over Thanksgiving weekend.

Otherwise the Sox will sign Rowand to a $20M/season - 10 year deal! :D:

I'd prefer Kenny look at those videos then the ones where he pretty much dominated the yankees in New York, purely with his defense.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 02:39 PM
He's an average outfielder who's daredevil qualities has caused people to over-rate him and make him a Zeus-like figure. Would you give this contract he will get to Bernard Gilkey, Troy O'leary, Jacque Jones, Shea Hillenbrand or Mike Lamb? I didn't think so.
He's a pretty good outfielder whose daredevil qualities make him a fan favorite. He's also a prooven vocal leader (something the Sox have clearly been lacking) and good clubhouse guy.

Intangibles, also, are something that exist in sports, regardless of what the sabermetricians want you to believe.

And as far as the contract goes, the landscape has changed. Everybody is expensive to the point that any comparison to past contracts guys have gotten are irrelevant. Torii freaking Hunter just got 18 million dollars a year, for crying out loud. 18 million, dude, 18 million.

PalehosePlanet
11-27-2007, 02:40 PM
If a player is not a star, and as was also the case with Hunter, is NOT good enough to hit in the middle of our lineup, how can you give him star money? Hunter would have been the highest paid 6th or 7th place hitter in the history of MLB; if we sign Rowand he will be the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like Aaron enough as a good, not great, solid scrappy type of player that's good for a team but that shouldn't cost --- even in today's crazy market --- more than 6-8 million a year.

Now, Andruw Jones is indeed a star player....

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 02:44 PM
He's a pretty good outfielder whose daredevil qualities make him a fan favorite. He's also a prooven vocal leader (something the Sox have clearly been lacking) and good clubhouse guy.

Intangibles, also, are something that exist in sports, regardless of what the sabermetricians want you to believe.

And as far as the contract goes, the landscape has changed. Everybody is expensive to the point that any comparison to past contracts guys have gotten are irrelevant. Torii freaking Hunter just got 18 million dollars a year, for crying out loud. 18 million, dude, 18 million.
It doesn't matter what market its in. Whether its a 1990 market a 2007 market or a 2020 market he is not and will never be a 12-16 millin per year player, NEVER.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 02:44 PM
Now, Andruw Jones was indeed a star player....
Fixed it.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 02:45 PM
It doesn't matter what market its in. Whether its a 1990 market a 2007 market or a 2020 market he is not and will never be a 12-16 millin per year player, NEVER.
He will be somewhere. And that is why the market is relevant. When the 10 million dollar players (i.e. Torii Hunter) become 18 million dollar players, the 7 million dollar players become 14 million dollar players.

JermaineDye05
11-27-2007, 02:48 PM
Fixed it.

I wouldn't go as far to say Jones isn't a star anymore just yet. I'll wait to see what he does in 2008. If he comes back overweight again and hits below .250 then yeah I'll buy that. Remember before last season Jones had 92 hrs and 257 RBI combined from 2005-2006 avg. in the .260's but still gold glove caliber defense.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 02:50 PM
I wouldn't go as far to say Jones isn't a star anymore just yet. I'll wait to see what he does in 2008. If he comes back overweight again and hits below .250 then yeah I'll buy that. Remember before last season Jones had 92 hrs and 257 RBI combined from 2005-2006 avg. in the .260's but still gold glove caliber defense.
I was really just kidding on that one. I think Jones will be a big homer RBI guy again.:D:

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:19 PM
Fixed it.
He had 1 bad season.
Konerko (2003)
Thomas (98-99)
Lowell (2005)
Do any of these guys still play baseball?

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:20 PM
He will be somewhere. And that is why the market is relevant. When the 10 million dollar players (i.e. Torii Hunter) become 18 million dollar players, the 7 million dollar players become 14 million dollar players.
Hopefully for our sake that somewhere is not the Southside of Chicago.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 03:23 PM
He had 1 bad season.
Konerko (2003)
Thomas (98-99)
Lowell (2005)
Do any of these guys still play baseball?
See above post.

But in all seriousness, if we can get Jones for less than Hunter money, I'm all for it.

thedudeabides
11-27-2007, 03:27 PM
Hopefully for our sake that somewhere is not the Southside of Chicago.

I realize you don't like Rowand, and that's fine. But what do you suggest for an upgrade if everyone is going to be so overpaid? At some point you have to realize this is the market. Either pay market value or you will never sign a free agent. I would rather over pay a guy, by a couple of million per year, than deal with the black hole we have had in CF the last two years. With a thin farm system, trading is also becoming more difficult. Right now, there is no in house solution.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:34 PM
I realize you don't like Rowand, and that's fine. But what do you suggest for an upgrade if everyone is going to be so overpaid? At some point you have to realize this is the market. Either pay market value or you will never sign a free agent. I would rather over pay a guy, by a couple of million per year, than deal with the black hole we have had in CF the last two years. With a thin farm system, trading is also becoming more difficult. Right now, there is no in house solution.
Lets say we sign aaron for a deal of 5yrs/65 million. That is 13 million we will not get back for 5 years once we realize that "oh **** we ****ed up." Jerry Owens/Brian Anderson/Ryan Sweeney are all better options than that of Aaron Rowand dollar for dollar when you consider the fact we are on a budget. I would rather go as high as 23 million per year for Jones than give Rowand 12 or more. I would rather have Crisp at 4 million than Rowand at 12+. Rowands contract on a budgeted team like our Sox is a crippling contract.

Paulwny
11-27-2007, 03:34 PM
I realize you don't like Rowand, and that's fine. But what do you suggest for an upgrade if everyone is going to be so overpaid? At some point you have to realize this is the market. Either pay market value or you will never sign a free agent. I would rather over pay a guy, by a couple of million per year, than deal with the black hole we have had in CF the last two years. With a thin farm system, trading is also becoming more difficult. Right now, there is no in house solution.

You got it, when you have very little to trade then you must spend if you want to immediately contend.

thedudeabides
11-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Lets say we sign aaron for a deal of 5yrs/65 million. That is 13 million we will not get back for 5 years once we realize that "oh **** we ****ed up." Jerry Owens/Brian Anderson/Ryan Sweeney are all better options than that of Aaron Rowand dollar for dollar when you consider the fact we are on a budget. I would rather go as high as 23 million per year for Jones than give Rowand 12 or more. I would rather have Crisp at 4 million than Rowand at 12+. Rowands contract on a budgeted team like our Sox is a crippling contract.

Your not afraid to rip on Rowand's defense, but you want Owens to play CF? Anderson and Sweeney haven't proven they can play at this level and Crisp is an average player that would cost assets.

You think 12mm will cripple a budget, but are willing to pay Jones 23mm coming off a .220 campaign?

Sometimes I think you need to remove your hate for Rowand and step back and look at your argument.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:41 PM
You got it, when you have very little to trade then you must spend if you want to immediately contend.
So you would give Troy O'leary, Mike Lamb, Jacque Jones, Jeffrey Hammonds, and Casey Blake 12-16 million per year because we have little to trade?
aaron Rowand doesn't help us immediately contend. He helps us say, "aw shucks we won 85 games and finished in 3rd this year, better than last year!"

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 03:43 PM
Your not afraid to rip on Rowand's defense, but you want Owens to play CF? Anderson and Sweeney haven't proven they can play at this level and Crisp is an average player that would cost assets.

You think 12mm will cripple a budget, but are willing to pay Jones 23mm coming off a .220 campaign?

Sometimes I think you need to remove your hate for Rowand and step back and look at your argument.


Amen....

Paulwny
11-27-2007, 03:48 PM
So you would give Troy O'leary, Mike Lamb, Jacque Jones, Jeffrey Hammonds, and Casey Blake 12-16 million per year because we have little to trade?
aaron Rowand doesn't help us immediately contend. He helps us say, "aw shucks we won 85 games and finished in 3rd this year, better than last year!"

I'm not a Rowand fan but, if you want to immediately contend you have to spend, if not then wait whatever number of years for the farm to finally develop some players. The sox have very few options.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:51 PM
Your not afraid to rip on Rowand's defense, but you want Owens to play CF? Anderson and Sweeney haven't proven they can play at this level and Crisp is an average player that would cost assets.

You think 12mm will cripple a budget, but are willing to pay Jones 23mm coming off a .220 campaign?

Sometimes I think you need to remove your hate for Rowand and step back and look at your argument.
Rowands arm is better but overall defense is not much better besides Aaron's love for eating walls. Anderson and Sweeney have never been given oppertunities to prove anything (don't bring up the half-assed oppertunity the Sox gave Brian in 06. That was no oppertunity). Crisp is a better player than Rowand for 8 million less a year. Jones had 1 bad year in his career. I guess that means he is done right? And Paul Konerko never bounced back from 2003. Also factor in where Jones plays a majority of the games per season in his career (ATL-pitchers park I believe {81 games}, FLA-pitchers park{9-10}, NYM-Pitcher I believe{9-10}, WAS/Montreal -pitchers {9-10} Phi-hitters {9-10}). Thats a minimum of 110-111 games in a "Pitchers Park." Put him somewhere like US Cell he will hit 40-50 hrs 110-130 RBIs and .280 a year. Yes that is worth 20 million in this market. 18 hrs 66 rbis and average defense isn't worth 12-16 million.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm not a Rowand fan but, if you want to immediately contend you have to spend, if not then wait whatever number of years for the farm to finally develop some players. The sox have very few options.
Aaron Rowand DOES NOT help you immediately contend.

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 03:53 PM
Rowands arm is better but overall defense is not much better besides Aaron's love for eating walls. Anderson and Sweeney have never been given oppertunities to prove anything (don't bring up the half-assed oppertunity the Sox gave Brian in 06. That was no oppertunity). Crisp is a better player than Rowand for 8 million less a year. Jones had 1 bad year in his career. I guess that means he is done right? And Paul Konerko never bounced back from 2003. Also factor in where Jones plays a majority of the games per season in his career (ATL-pitchers park I believe {81 games}, FLA-pitchers park{9-10}, NYM-Pitcher I believe{9-10}, WAS/Montreal -pitchers {9-10} Phi-hitters {9-10}). Thats a minimum of 110-111 games in a "Pitchers Park." Put him somewhere like US Cell he will hit 40-50 hrs 110-130 RBIs and .280 a year. Yes that is worth 20 million in this market. 18 hrs 66 rbis and average defense isn't worth 12-16 million.

Not the BA argument again.....

drewcifer
11-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Your not afraid to rip on Rowand's defense, but you want Owens to play CF? Anderson and Sweeney haven't proven they can play at this level and Crisp is an average player that would cost assets.

You think 12mm will cripple a budget, but are willing to pay Jones 23mm coming off a .220 campaign?

Sometimes I think you need to remove your hate for Rowand and step back and look at your argument.

I have a new favorite. $ post, man. Just keep it equal (in terms of time), but you are DEFINITELY on the right track, IMO. I've been looking at Jones since I got home from T-giving and the more I look, the more I see value IF its a short term deal.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Not the BA argument again.....
He said BA and Sweeney haven't proven anything, how they prove anything without an oppertunity? And that doesn't include an oppertunity where you might play one day and not the next.

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 03:56 PM
He said BA and Sweeney haven't proven anything, how they prove anything without an oppertunity? And that doesn't include an oppertunity where you might play one day and not the next.

Dude it's opportunity......and yes he had one....365 at bats is more than an opportunity

Paulwny
11-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Aaron Rowand DOES NOT help you immediately contend.

You are correct, so sox should spend on PLAYERS not just one but, this won't happen so there's no use in debating this.

thedudeabides
11-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Rowands arm is better but overall defense is not much better besides Aaron's love for eating walls. Anderson and Sweeney have never been given oppertunities to prove anything (don't bring up the half-assed oppertunity the Sox gave Brian in 06. That was no oppertunity). Crisp is a better player than Rowand for 8 million less a year. Jones had 1 bad year in his career. I guess that means he is done right? And Paul Konerko never bounced back from 2003. Also factor in where Jones plays a majority of the games per season in his career (ATL-pitchers park I believe {81 games}, FLA-pitchers park{9-10}, NYM-Pitcher I believe{9-10}, WAS/Montreal -pitchers {9-10} Phi-hitters {9-10}). Thats a minimum of 110-111 games in a "Pitchers Park." Put him somewhere like US Cell he will hit 40-50 hrs 110-130 RBIs and .280 a year. Yes that is worth 20 million in this market. 18 hrs 66 rbis and average defense isn't worth 12-16 million.

This is why I don't ever get into debates involving Rowand or BA. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm trying to discuss improving the White Sox. You have a clear agenda against signing Rowand and your contradicting your own argument about crippling the Sox budget by offering Jones 20mm. That's your stance, and I respect it. I just disagree.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 03:58 PM
Dude it's opportunity......and yes he had one....400+ at bats is more than an opportunity
English class?
Yes constantly looking over you shoulder not sure if your gonna play and for how long that day. Remember Garland under Manuel? Well what Manuel did to Garland Ozzie did to Anderson.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 03:59 PM
If a player is not a star, and as was also the case with Hunter, is NOT good enough to hit in the middle of our lineup, how can you give him star money? Hunter would have been the highest paid 6th or 7th place hitter in the history of MLB; if we sign Rowand he will be the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like Aaron enough as a good, not great, solid scrappy type of player that's good for a team but that shouldn't cost --- even in today's crazy market --- more than 6-8 million a year.

Now, Andruw Jones is indeed a star player....

You apparently have a severe misconception about what "star money" is. $12-14M is NOT star money. It may have been a few years ago, but star money is now in the mid to upper teens. Superstar money is high teens into the 20s. "Good player" or "Allstar" money is $10+. That's why Ted Lilly gets $10M, Jason Marquis & Adam Eaton get $~8 and Gary Matthews gets $12.

Over the past 4 years, here are 3 players total stats:

A: .276BA / .343OBP / .797OPS, averages of 16HR, 10.5SB / 3.5CS
B: .277BA / .329OBP / .813OPS, averages of 24HR, 18.5SB / 7.25CS
C: .289BA / .330OBP / .804OPS, averages of 19HR, 12.25SB / 4.25CS

B is the best of the lot, but A & C are pretty close and I'd argue they're fairly similar offensive players. (A = Gary Matthews, B = Hunter, C = Rowand)

Matthews makes $12M.5M/yr, Torii makes $18M/yr and Rowand is yet to sign. Aaron also happens to be 2-3 years younger than the other 2, so he could be a better bet to build on his last year's performance. But even if he maintains those type of averages, he's right there with the other 2.

He's is going to get $12-14M. The Sox don't have to pay it, but then it's highly likely that they'll have a worse offensive player in CF. And defensively, he's in between the other 2, so that fits the financials as well.

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 03:59 PM
English class?
Yes constantly looking over you shoulder not sure if your gonna play and for how long that day. Remember Garland under Manuel? Well what Manuel did to Garland Ozzie did to Anderson.

If I'm not mistaken Garland has been in the rotation since 2001.....

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:01 PM
You are correct, so sox should spend on PLAYERS not just one but, this won't happen so there's no use in debating this.

This is why I don't ever get into debates involving Rowand or BA. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm trying to discuss improving the White Sox. You have a clear agenda against signing Rowand and your contradicting your own argument about crippling the Sox budget by offering Jones 20mm. That's your stance, and I respect it. I just disagree.
Andruw Jones at 20 million doesn't cripple your budget because he will be worth it and you will get full value out of it. 12-16 for Rowand does cripple it because you won't get value out of it.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:02 PM
If I'm not mistaken Garland has been in the rotation since 2001.....
How successful was Garland under Manuel? Wasn't that complaint of Manuel how he always left Jon looking over his shoulder opposed to just being able to relax and know what his role is? Brian never got an oppertunity to feel comfortable and he never knew his role, similar to Garland during the Manuel era.

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 04:03 PM
Andruw Jones at 20 million doesn't cripple your budget because he will be worth it and you will get full value out of it. 12-16 for Rowand does cripple it because you won't get value out of it.

Now I realize that you are just completely nuts....

20 Million?

No way no How.....

peelwonder
11-27-2007, 04:04 PM
How successful was Garland under Manuel? Wasn't that complaint of Manuel how he always left Jon looking over his shoulder opposed to just being able to relax and know what his role is? Brian never got an oppertunity to feel comfortable and he never knew his role, similar to Garland during the Manuel era.


He was given the starting job on opening day....how's that not an opportunity......

I know that you must have something for BA but it's ridiculous....

It's like some sort of conspiracy theory that BA wasn't the ROY.....

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Now I realize that you are just completely nuts....

20 Million?

No way no How.....
40-50 hrs, 110-130 rbis 100 runs and .280 average with true GG defense is worth 20 million in this market.
18-20 hrs 60-70 rbis and a .285 average with average defense that is built up as Willie Mays-great because he has an ability to occupy many slots on Webgems with his love for walls is not worth 12-16 million in this market or any market.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Crisp is a better player than Rowand for 8 million less a year.
Is it Coco's lower BA, lower OBP, or worse power numbers that make him a better player? Just wondering.

Oh, and if Anderson's 416 ABs in a couple years don't count as an "opportunity," I don't know what does.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:09 PM
He was given the starting job on opening day....how's that not an opportunity......

I know that you must have something for BA but it's ridiculous....

It's like some sort of conspiracy theory that BA wasn't the ROY.....
And Mackowiak played no CF that year? If I remember correctly Mackowiak played alot of CF in 06. He never should have it should have been Brian's to find out if he was capable. If he wasn't you move on. We never found out.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 04:11 PM
And Mackowiak played no CF that year? If I remember correctly Mackowiak played alot of CF in 06. He never should have it should have been Brian's to find out if he was capable. If he wasn't you move on. We never found out.
It was Brian's, and we found out that he blows. That's why Mack played later on.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:13 PM
Is it Coco's lower BA, lower OBP, or worse power numbers that make him a better player? Just wondering.

Oh, and if Anderson's 416 ABs in a couple years don't count as an "opportunity," I don't know what does.

Career Average Crisp-.280, Rowand .286
Career OBP Crisp-.329, Rowand .343
Factor in better defender in Crisp, more of a threat on the bases and the 8 million less he will make yes Crisp is a better player.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 04:15 PM
Career Average Crisp-.280, Rowand .286
Career OBP Crisp-.329, Rowand .343
Factor in better defender in Crisp, more of a threat on the bases and the 8 million less he will make yes Crisp is a better player.
Slightly better defender. And Crisp is not that big a threat to steal a bunch of bases. Rowand's power numbers are more of an offsetter, if anything.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:18 PM
It was Brian's, and we found out that he blows. That's why Mack played later on.
Thats bull **** and you know it. He started 106 games which is what 66% of the games? He should have been given 90-95% of the games. For the amount his bat was hurting the team in 06 A) his defense balanced it out and B) our offense was great in 06 so it wasn't as missed as it appeared.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 04:19 PM
A: .276BA / .343OBP / .797OPS, averages of 16HR, 10.5SB / 3.5CS
B: .277BA / .329OBP / .813OPS, averages of 24HR, 18.5SB / 7.25CS
C: .289BA / .330OBP / .804OPS, averages of 19HR, 12.25SB / 4.25CS


Andruw Jones at 20 million doesn't cripple your budget because he will be worth it and you will get full value out of it. 12-16 for Rowand does cripple it because you won't get value out of it.

Just for snicks, here's "D" over the past 4 years.

.252BA / .335OBP / .837OPS, averages of 36HR, 5SB, 3CS. D also has had 125+Ks in 3 of the past 4 years and is coming off of a horrid year. If you're lucky, he bounces back to the year prior in which he batted .262 with 41HR and an .894OPS. But he's still another HR or K, no speed player.That's Andruw Jones for you. That's the guy you'd rather have at $20M than Rowand at $12?

Also by reference, Rowand was a top3 CF in terms of OPS last year. His 4 years averages would have him top 8. So he's probably a solid bet to be a top 4-8 CF offensively while providing anywhere from solid to excellent D depending on your opinion of him.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 04:20 PM
40-50 hrs, 110-130 rbis 100 runs and .280 average with true GG defense is worth 20 million in this market.
18-20 hrs 60-70 rbis and a .285 average with average defense that is built up as Willie Mays-great because he has an ability to occupy many slots on Webgems with his love for walls is not worth 12-16 million in this market or any market.

Jones hasn't hit .280 in over 4 years. And his D has slipped significantly from when he was an automatic GG-er by pretty much any metric and by the accounts of most scouts/baseball people.

Domeshot17
11-27-2007, 04:20 PM
Brian Anderson was given over 300 at bats to judge his ability.

THEN Brian Anderson was given a chance to play in winter ball, he got sick and did not go back

Then Brian was given spring training vs Erstad in which he did not seperate himself

Then Brian was benched to start the season because he had the same swing with the same holes and the same dumbass approach of swing 3 times and walk back to the dugout.

Brian Anderson had a piss poor attitude, sulked, was not a hard worker and did not listen to his hitting coach. THAT is why he had to always look over his shoulder. Brian BLEW IT. He might be a good 4th outfielder somewhere else, but not here. Yah, we have a manager who either loves you or hates you, and Brian has been on both sides. I expect this spring he will be given a chance to compete with Owens and Sweeney for the fourth OF job.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Career Average Crisp-.280, Rowand .286
Career OBP Crisp-.329, Rowand .343
Factor in better defender in Crisp, more of a threat on the bases and the 8 million less he will make yes Crisp is a better player.

Coco Crisp is not an FA. That's why he makes less. Were he an FA, he'd make $12+. Coco Crisp also costs you prospects to trade for, Rowand only costs you money.

I'd rather have Rowand at $12M and Gio than Crisp at $4-6M.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:22 PM
Just for snicks, here's "D" over the past 4 years.

.252BA / .335OBP / .837OPS, averages of 36HR, 5SB, 3CS. D also has had 125+Ks in 3 of the past 4 years and is coming off of a horrid year. If you're lucky, he bounces back to the year prior in which he batted .262 with 41HR and an .894OPS. But he's still another HR or K, no speed player.That's Andruw Jones for you. That's the guy you'd rather have at $20M than Rowand at $12?

Also by reference, Rowand was a top3 CF in terms of OPS last year. His 4 years averages would have him top 8. So he's probably a solid bet to be a top 4-8 CF offensively while providing anywhere from solid to excellent D depending on your opinion of him.
Rowand played in a hitter friendly park in Philly, whereas Jones played in a pitchers park. And about that horrid season explain Paul Konerko's 2003 has he ever bounced back?

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:24 PM
Coco Crisp is not an FA. That's why he makes less. Were he an FA, he'd make $12+. Coco Crisp also costs you prospects to trade for, Rowand only costs you money.

I'd rather have Rowand at $12M and Gio than Crisp at $4-6M.
Clearly we would never do a Gio/Crisp swap. Boston can't get much for Crisp.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Brian Anderson was given over 300 at bats to judge his ability.

THEN Brian Anderson was given a chance to play in winter ball, he got sick and did not go back

Then Brian was given spring training vs Erstad in which he did not seperate himself

Then Brian was benched to start the season because he had the same swing with the same holes and the same dumbass approach of swing 3 times and walk back to the dugout.

Brian Anderson had a piss poor attitude, sulked, was not a hard worker and did not listen to his hitting coach. THAT is why he had to always look over his shoulder. Brian BLEW IT. He might be a good 4th outfielder somewhere else, but not here. Yah, we have a manager who either loves you or hates you, and Brian has been on both sides. I expect this spring he will be given a chance to compete with Owens and Sweeney for the fourth OF job.
I think I would have a piss poor attitude towards the organization and lack trust in the organization if I was told CF was mine then because I didn't hit like Pujols or Fielder in my rookie season I was platooned and eventually benched for a guy who was nothing more than a utilityman on one of the worst teams in baseball. This thought that every rookie needs to come in and hit .300 with 25 hrs and 80 RBI's is rediculous and unfair.

jabrch
11-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Coco Crisp is not an FA. That's why he makes less. Were he an FA, he'd make $12+. Coco Crisp also costs you prospects to trade for, Rowand only costs you money.

I'd rather have Rowand at $12M and Gio than Crisp at $4-6M.

If that's the case, that Crisp would cost Gio to get, and then 12mm per to sign, I'd have absolutely no interest in him.


I don't have much interest in him even if he was making 6mm and cost us Aardsma or Sisco to get...but surely none at all under your terms...

sullythered
11-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Clearly we would never do a Gio/Crisp swap. Boston can't get much for Crisp.
Wow. Why couldn't Boston get much for such a great player who makes so little?

colles9
11-27-2007, 04:36 PM
I think I would have a piss poor attitude towards the organization and lack trust in the organization if I was told CF was mine then because I didn't hit like Pujols or Fielder in my rookie season I was platooned and eventually benched for a guy who was nothing more than a utilityman on one of the worst teams in baseball. This thought that every rookie needs to come in and hit .300 with 25 hrs and 80 RBI's is rediculous and unfair.

I dont post much but I am trying to understand how given the "opportunity" with 106 games started in CF and 365 ABs and ending up at .225 BA, .290 OBP doesnt justify being a fair opportunity.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Wow. Why couldn't Boston get much for such a great player who makes so little?
1) I never said he was a great I said he was better than Rowand
2) They have no advantage. Manny in LF, Drew in RF and Ellsbury (sp) in CF. Why keep Crisp for the bench at 4-5 million?

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:39 PM
I dont post much but I am trying to understand how given the "opportunity" with 106 games started in CF and 365 ABs and ending up at .225 BA, .290 OBP doesnt justify being a fair opportunity.
Offensively he struggled clearly, defensively he was excellent. .225 average isn't that bad when you realize he was at or below .190 for most of the season. He showed signs of adjusting and getting better but it didn't matter because Ozzie had a mancrush on Mackowiak and didn't like the fact that Brian partied.

colles9
11-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Offensively he struggled clearly, defensively he was excellent. .225 average isn't that bad when you realize he was at or below .190 for most of the season. He showed signs of adjusting and getting better but it didn't matter because Ozzie had a mancrush on Mackowiak and didn't like the fact that Brian partied.

I would have to say that there is more behind the whole "BA Partied" issue that caused concern for Ozzie. I will agree that there was a substancial drop off in the field with Mack in there considering BA was .994 FP for 2006. But, when games were on the line (with the Sox down) I was more of a fan of Mack coming up to the plate then BA, however when the Sox were up in a close game I was all for BA coming in as a Def replacement.

Either way, BA's time is done in Chicago and I wish him the best when he goes to another team.

spiffie
11-27-2007, 04:46 PM
40-50 hrs, 110-130 rbis 100 runs and .280 average with true GG defense is worth 20 million in this market.
18-20 hrs 60-70 rbis and a .285 average with average defense that is built up as Willie Mays-great because he has an ability to occupy many slots on Webgems with his love for walls is not worth 12-16 million in this market or any market.
He has hit 40+HR twice in 12 seasons. He has topped 120 RBI twice in 12 seasons. He has topped a .280 average once in 12 seasons. He's topped 100 runs 4 times in 12 seasons, and 105 runs twice in 12 seasons. His 162 game averages are .262 BA, 34 HR, 103 RBI, 96 R. His career OPS of 839 is lower than Geoff Jenkins, Shawn Green, Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko and Cliff Floyd. So, to use your logic of equivalancy that paying Aaron Rowand $12 million is like paying Bernard Gilkey $12 million, you're paying Geoff Jenkins or Troy Glaus $20 million a year.

spiffie
11-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Offensively he struggled clearly, defensively he was excellent. .225 average isn't that bad when you realize he was at or below .190 for most of the season. He showed signs of adjusting and getting better but it didn't matter because Ozzie had a mancrush on Mackowiak and didn't like the fact that Brian partied.
So lets see. His 161 in April was because he was adjusting to the majors. The 167 in May was because of Ozzie's mancrush. The 197 in June was probably due to injury or something. I assume he forgot the adjustments you mention when putting up that epic 188/222/304 line in September, when he started 20 games?

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:50 PM
He has hit 40+HR twice in 12 seasons. He has topped 120 RBI twice in 12 seasons. He has topped a .280 average once in 12 seasons. He's topped 100 runs 4 times in 12 seasons, and 105 runs twice in 12 seasons. His 162 game averages are .262 BA, 34 HR, 103 RBI, 96 R. His career OPS of 839 is lower than Geoff Jenkins, Shawn Green, Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko and Cliff Floyd. So, to use your logic of equivalancy that paying Aaron Rowand $12 million is like paying Bernard Gilkey $12 million, you're paying Geoff Jenkins or Troy Glaus $20 million a year.
Maybe i'm wrong but isn't Atlanta where he has played 81 games a year a pitcher's park? I would expect a move to the cell would add at least 6 hrs, 15 RBI's and percentage points to his average.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 04:51 PM
So lets see. His 161 in April was because he was adjusting to the majors. The 167 in May was because of Ozzie's mancrush. The 197 in June was probably due to injury or something. I assume he forgot the adjustments you mention when putting up that epic 188/222/304 line in September, when he started 20 games?
He got better each month. :D:

sullythered
11-27-2007, 04:56 PM
2) They have no advantage. Manny in LF, Drew in RF and Ellsbury (sp) in CF. Why keep Crisp for the bench at 4-5 million?
Boston's abundance of OF's should not drive down Crisp's trade value. If he is, in fact, better than Rowand, then every single team that is interested in Rowand will first be interested in Crisp. That, alone, will drive his trade value up, and we will have to give up significant prospects for him.

spiffie
11-27-2007, 04:57 PM
Maybe i'm wrong but isn't Atlanta where he has played 81 games a year a pitcher's park? I would expect a move to the cell would add at least 6 hrs, 15 RBI's and percentage points to his average.
Atlanta park factors (100 is neutral, over 100 is positive to hitters, under 100 negative to hitters):
1996 - 105
1997 - 101
1998 - 102
1999 - 97
2000 - 100
2001 - 104
2002 - 106
2003 - 96
2004 - 101
2005 - 106
2006 - 96
2007 - 98

Looks like most years its played as more of a hitters than a pitchers park.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 05:00 PM
Atlanta park factors (100 is neutral, over 100 is positive to hitters, under 100 negative to hitters):
1996 - 105
1997 - 101
1998 - 102
1999 - 97
2000 - 100
2001 - 104
2002 - 106
2003 - 96
2004 - 101
2005 - 106
2006 - 96
2007 - 98

Looks like most years its played as more of a hitters than a pitchers park.
Here's a few questions about this:
1) Where does the Cell rank?
2) How do they figure these ranks work out?
(is it based on stats in each park? If so would the pitchers good or bad have an effect on the stadium ranks?)
I only ask because I have no understanding of that chart thing.

PalehosePlanet
11-27-2007, 05:01 PM
You apparently have a severe misconception about what "star money" is. $12-14M is NOT star money. It may have been a few years ago, but star money is now in the mid to upper teens. Superstar money is high teens into the 20s. "Good player" or "Allstar" money is $10+. That's why Ted Lilly gets $10M, Jason Marquis & Adam Eaton get $~8 and Gary Matthews gets $12.

Over the past 4 years, here are 3 players total stats:

A: .276BA / .343OBP / .797OPS, averages of 16HR, 10.5SB / 3.5CS
B: .277BA / .329OBP / .813OPS, averages of 24HR, 18.5SB / 7.25CS
C: .289BA / .330OBP / .804OPS, averages of 19HR, 12.25SB / 4.25CS

B is the best of the lot, but A & C are pretty close and I'd argue they're fairly similar offensive players. (A = Gary Matthews, B = Hunter, C = Rowand)

Matthews makes $12M.5M/yr, Torii makes $18M/yr and Rowand is yet to sign. Aaron also happens to be 2-3 years younger than the other 2, so he could be a better bet to build on his last year's performance. But even if he maintains those type of averages, he's right there with the other 2.

He's is going to get $12-14M. The Sox don't have to pay it, but then it's highly likely that they'll have a worse offensive player in CF. And defensively, he's in between the other 2, so that fits the financials as well.

Again, as I stated earlier, or tried to: Torii Hunter is NOT a star; 18 Million per IS star money. I'm overjoyed that we did not land a 6th or 7th place hitting, good D, intangeables guy for star money.

As far as Rowand goes, you consider him a very good, all-star type player (by your own definition above of 10+ million players) while I consider him a decent, supporting cast type player. I know the numbers probably support your theory as to what he should make based on the contracts others have signed; it makes sense. However, to me he is not that good.

I would, as stated earlier by another poster, gladly give Andruw Jones $20 per because I feel he is that much better than Rowand (although alot of you like to bash him for one bad year) given his track record. Rowand had a career year going into free agency, while Jones had a career bad year. Thus instead of Rowand getting 7-8 per year and Jones getting 23-24 per, it will be more like 13-15 for Rowand and 17-19 for Jones.

Sargeant79
11-27-2007, 05:23 PM
My 2 cents...

I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with $10-$11 million per year for Rowand, but it is probably a good deal in this market. Along those lines, a $65 million dollar contract for him sounds a lot better if it is spread out over 6 years. $12-14 million is probably too much, even on a 5 year deal. But somebody will probably give it to him.

Jones, on the other hand, has a track record of top-notch offensive production, save for last year. $20 million per year, while an absurd amount of money, is not crippling to a team on a budget like the Sox if it's a 3 year contract. There is a good chance that he will provide value-type production over a short period of time like that. A long-term commitment of 5 years or more is what would scare me off. Even if last year was a fluke, there's not a very good chance that he'll be hitting around his career norms by year 5 of a deal like that.

While I would be very excited to have either Jones or Rowand in CF since it's not my money, I'm beginning to think that Crisp or Cameron may be good, cost-effective options as long as it isn't paired with Jerry Owens in LF. Owens should only be starting if there is a significant offensive upgrade from the other vacant OF spot.

JB98
11-27-2007, 06:48 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.
???

Sockinchisox
11-27-2007, 06:54 PM
???

Cowley

Daver
11-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.

For once, I hope he's right.

champagne030
11-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.

Well, I hope one of Kenny's plans doesn't include Owens in CF.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 07:00 PM
Well, I hope one of Kenny's plans doesn't include Owens in CF.
Please, please, no.

Sockinchisox
11-27-2007, 07:01 PM
Well, I hope one of Kenny's plans doesn't include Owens in CF.

Or Crisp.

Speaking of which, hurry up and trade for him already Twins.

dickallen15
11-27-2007, 07:04 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.
Does that mean he's in town taking a physical as we speak?

sullythered
11-27-2007, 07:05 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.
link?

Sockinchisox
11-27-2007, 07:06 PM
link?

JB works for the Sun-Times.

sullythered
11-27-2007, 07:08 PM
JB works for the Sun-Times.
Ah, thanks.

JB98
11-27-2007, 07:34 PM
Does that mean he's in town taking a physical as we speak?

LOL. That's why I said to take it FWIW. The names of Crisp and Tavares are being lobbed about as possible CF options.

I'd be interested in the latter, but not the former.

Lip Man 1
11-27-2007, 07:36 PM
But remember this is the same guy who all but 'guaranteed' Hunter was coming.

:rolleyes:

But I'll say this...they better get some damn outfielders who can play regardless of whether it's left or center.

Lip

Sockinchisox
11-27-2007, 07:39 PM
But remember this is the same guy who all but 'guaranteed' Hunter was coming.

:rolleyes:

But I'll say this...they better get some damn outfielders who can play regardless of whether it's left or center.



Lip

Ya but, in a way he was correct, Hunter said himself he was all but ready to sign with us before the Angels blew him away. And Cowley stated in the article that it would take a team to step in and blow Hunter away for him not to sign with us.

JB98
11-27-2007, 07:39 PM
But remember this is the same guy who all but 'guaranteed' Hunter was coming.

:rolleyes:

But I'll say this...they better get some damn outfielders who can play regardless of whether it's left or center.

Lip

True on both counts.

Cowley flip-flopped several times in the weeks leading up to the Buehrle extension as well. These Rowand reports are also based on "sources close to the situation."

spiffie
11-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Here's a few questions about this:
1) Where does the Cell rank?
2) How do they figure these ranks work out?
(is it based on stats in each park? If so would the pitchers good or bad have an effect on the stadium ranks?)
I only ask because I have no understanding of that chart thing.
The Sox have been above the 100 mark every year this decade.

2. B-R's explanation of Park Factor is here. http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/parkadjust.shtml It's not perfect, but I think it provides a useful shorthand to at least compare one to the other.

champagne030
11-27-2007, 08:12 PM
LOL. That's why I said to take it FWIW. The names of Crisp and Tavares are being lobbed about as possible CF options.

I'd be interested in the latter, but not the former.

I'd be interested in Taveras too. I wonder what kind of package we would need to give up to get him and Fuentes. We'd also need to upgrade LF and the FA market is weak there too. Maybe we could parlay Crede and a prospect for a decent LF......Maybe we keep Gio, DLS and Broadway and get a Burrell, Fuentes and Taveras. Floyd, Masset, Anderson, Sisco, Crede, et al. are available.

Hitmen77
11-27-2007, 08:34 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.

Does he give a reason? In other words, is it because the Sox are about to complete a deal on another CF or is it because Rowand is about to sign elsewhere?

If neither such deal is imminent, I don't see the Sox and Rowand dropping each other from consideration at this point.

JB98
11-27-2007, 08:48 PM
Does he give a reason? In other words, is it because the Sox are about to complete a deal on another CF or is it because Rowand is about to sign elsewhere?

If neither such deal is imminent, I don't see the Sox and Rowand dropping each other from consideration at this point.

Light years apart on money.

santo=dorf
11-27-2007, 08:53 PM
Rowand to the Dodgers, Crisp to the Twins, should we demand Andruw Jones at any price in that case?

Sockinchisox
11-27-2007, 09:01 PM
Rowand to the Dodgers, Crisp to the Twins, should we demand Andruw Jones at any price in that case?

I'd want Andruw over Hunter, but I just don't see Kenny dealing with Boras. And the fact that theres no real impact CF available in trades, we may be stuck with Owens.

:whiner:

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 09:02 PM
Again, as I stated earlier, or tried to: Torii Hunter is NOT a star; 18 Million per IS star money. I'm overjoyed that we did not land a 6th or 7th place hitting, good D, intangeables guy for star money.

As far as Rowand goes, you consider him a very good, all-star type player (by your own definition above of 10+ million players) while I consider him a decent, supporting cast type player. I know the numbers probably support your theory as to what he should make based on the contracts others have signed; it makes sense. However, to me he is not that good.

I would, as stated earlier by another poster, gladly give Andruw Jones $20 per because I feel he is that much better than Rowand (although alot of you like to bash him for one bad year) given his track record. Rowand had a career year going into free agency, while Jones had a career bad year. Thus instead of Rowand getting 7-8 per year and Jones getting 23-24 per, it will be more like 13-15 for Rowand and 17-19 for Jones.

You'll always pay more for guys in FA, so you can't compare Rowand's salary to non-FA guys (like Crisp). The point is that you pay more at least partially because you don't have to trade away talent for them. If Crisp is coming cheaply (I'm thinking for a Macdougal/Sisco type guy, not sure I'd even go as high as Broadway for him), then fine.

But you seem to think that .265 with 40HRs and 120Ks is "top notch" while .290 with 25HRs is "supporting cast". I disagree, I'd rate them fairly evenly. Maybe an edge to Jones, but certainly not one where I'd pay $8-10M more.

Aaron is a top 10 CF offensively. Defensively he's average or better. That's not a cornerstone guy, but in this age, that's a guy who makes $12M. Gary Matthews is a great comparison - Rowand's as good or better (and younger), so he'll get paid similarly.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 09:06 PM
Light years apart on money.


I don't have a problem with the Sox passing on any individual player because of the $$$. I do have a problem when they do it repeatedly because at some point you have to accept that the market is where it's at and when your farm is as down as theirs, it's pay the piper or accept that you're not going to be competitive. Hunter got blown out of the water. Rowand wants too much. Jones wants too much and has a crazy slimeball of an agent. Boston wants a decent young pitcher for Crisp. Cabrera/Crawford will cost the Sox pretty much all of their young talent.

What's left? You keep passing on guys and you end up resigning Darin Erstad because he's "the best option that fit within what we can do". If that's the "plan", then trade some more vets like Thome, AJ, and maybe even Konerko because you won't compete in the ALC this year without adding some real players.

Tragg
11-27-2007, 09:13 PM
If Crisp is coming cheaply (I'm thinking for a Macdougal/Sisco type guy, not sure I'd even go as high as Broadway for him), then fine.
I agree; Boston seems to have delusional aspirations for a return (top prospect).


Aaron is a top 10 CF offensively. Defensively he's average or better. That's not a cornerstone guy, but in this age, that's a guy who makes $12M.
I will say that the price for Aaron is going to be 12 Million. My concern is that if he isn't a CF, he really isn't what we need offensively out of a LF.

I hope somewhere, Kenny finds a leadoff hitter. The Podsedniks of this world are, to use BP parlance "undervalued" and can be found. A guy with no power but who can get on base would help this club a lot.
Podsednik is defined as OBP of .350+ with no power, but who walk which gives some assurance that the obp is repeatable.

Flight #24
11-27-2007, 09:35 PM
I will say that the price for Aaron is going to be 12 Million. My concern is that if he isn't a CF, he really isn't what we need offensively out of a LF.

I hope somewhere, Kenny finds a leadoff hitter. The Podsedniks of this world are, to use BP parlance "undervalued" and can be found. A guy with no power but who can get on base would help this club a lot.
Podsednik is defined as OBP of .350+ with no power, but who walk which gives some assurance that the obp is repeatable.

To me it's down to "who's out there that can upgrade the team without costing the few top tier prospects they have". That narrows it down a lot (to me). I don't see any true impact guys out there. Rowand and Jones are the best remaining 2. I don't know who the "guy with no power but who can get on base" is. Kenny Lofton? I suppose he could work, but you'd still need a CF.

JB98
11-27-2007, 09:41 PM
I don't have a problem with the Sox passing on any individual player because of the $$$. I do have a problem when they do it repeatedly because at some point you have to accept that the market is where it's at and when your farm is as down as theirs, it's pay the piper or accept that you're not going to be competitive. Hunter got blown out of the water. Rowand wants too much. Jones wants too much and has a crazy slimeball of an agent. Boston wants a decent young pitcher for Crisp. Cabrera/Crawford will cost the Sox pretty much all of their young talent.

What's left? You keep passing on guys and you end up resigning Darin Erstad because he's "the best option that fit within what we can do". If that's the "plan", then trade some more vets like Thome, AJ, and maybe even Konerko because you won't compete in the ALC this year without adding some real players.

This is just the quandary you face when your farm system isn't giving you much. I don't think the Sox have a lot of payroll flexibility. They got some salary relief by moving Garland, but not much.

Hard to believe a couple years ago we were talking about retooling the outfield from within with Anderson, Young, Sweeney and Owens all being on the way. Instead, we're going to have overpay through free agency or trade just to have an outfield to keep us competitive in 2008.

DickAllen72
11-27-2007, 09:52 PM
I will say that the price for Aaron is going to be 12 Million.
12 Million per year for Rowand is very reasonable. Konerko got that much two years ago, so with the rising costs and revenues Rowand is worth $12M in 2008 dollars.

Unless the Sox intend to sign either Andruw Jones or trade for Miguel Cabrera, they would be foolish not to sign Rowand if the price is truly $12M per year.

The trouble is they better make the other deal before Rowand is signed by someone else and they are left with no options. Boras doesn't like for his FA's to sign quickly and the Marlins are likely to wait as long as they can to maximize their return on Cabrera. Neither looks like a strong probability to be obtained by the Sox.

Better get Rowand.

kba
11-27-2007, 10:06 PM
True on both counts.

Cowley flip-flopped several times in the weeks leading up to the Buehrle extension as well. These Rowand reports are also based on "sources close to the situation."

Cowley seems to have some good sources, but he can't seem to resist the temptation to predict the future. His reporting on Hunter was solid enough - Hunter had indeed met with KW and the both sides said the negotiations were promising. But Cowley turned that into a now-embarassing story predicting Hunter would be signing with the Sox within days.

Same thing with Buehrle. Cowley reported every blip in the negotiations as either "a contract extension is imminent" or "contract talks are dead." The flip-flopping made him look foolish.

Let's see how he does on the Rowand story.

getonbckthr
11-27-2007, 10:07 PM
12 Million per year for Rowand is very reasonable. Konerko got that much two years ago, so with the rising costs and revenues Rowand is worth $12M in 2008 dollars.

Unless the Sox intend to sign either Andruw Jones or trade for Miguel Cabrera, they would be foolish not to sign Rowand if the price is truly $12M per year.

The trouble is they better make the other deal before Rowand is signed by someone else and they are left with no options. Boras doesn't like for his FA's to sign quickly and the Marlins are likely to wait as long as they can to maximize their return on Cabrera. Neither looks like a strong probability to be obtained by the Sox.

Better get Rowand.
12 million for a .280 hitter 18 hrs and 66 RBI's playing an average defense is a joke.

Lip Man 1
11-27-2007, 10:12 PM
Flight:

You bring up some valid points on the state of the oirganization right now.

As I've stated before they are between a rock (money) and a hard place (no farm system) for the next two years at least.

Maybe the new director will start to turn things around on the farm but they simply have to do a better job of evaluating talent. There are a number of guys who have been later round picks and played very well. The Sox just don't seem to be able to connect on the guys with regularity or something even close to that.

Lip

DickAllen72
11-27-2007, 10:17 PM
12 million for a .280 hitter 18 hrs and 66 RBI's playing an average defense is a joke.
How about 18 million per year for the next five years for a .271 hitter with 25 HR and a .324obp who will be 33 in July?

All MLB salaries are a joke, but the market is what it is.

EDIT: Earlier in the thread you proposed spending $23 Million per year for Andruw Jones. :o:

Hitmen77
11-27-2007, 10:32 PM
I don't have a problem with the Sox passing on any individual player because of the $$$. I do have a problem when they do it repeatedly because at some point you have to accept that the market is where it's at and when your farm is as down as theirs, it's pay the piper or accept that you're not going to be competitive. Hunter got blown out of the water. Rowand wants too much. Jones wants too much and has a crazy slimeball of an agent. Boston wants a decent young pitcher for Crisp. Cabrera/Crawford will cost the Sox pretty much all of their young talent.

What's left? You keep passing on guys and you end up resigning Darin Erstad because he's "the best option that fit within what we can do". If that's the "plan", then trade some more vets like Thome, AJ, and maybe even Konerko because you won't compete in the ALC this year without adding some real players.

Excellent post.

The Sox need to fill the CF hole badly and unless KW can work some magic, they don't have many good options. They can either pay the market rate (a.k.a. "overpay") for Rowand or Jones, give up more of what little young talent we have for someone like Coco Crisp, or perhaps sign a 35 yr old career .250 hitter (Cameron).

Unless Jones dumps Boras, I don't think he's a realistic possibility for us. So that drops him off the list of options. I know people here have been dreaming about Crawford - but I think Tampa is going to want a ransom in talent for him. As far as Crisp goes, I don't think Boston is going to trade him away for cheap - he would cost us too.

Where does this leave the Sox in terms of good options for getting a CF (and a LF for that matter)?

I hope we're not looking at another "reclamation" project or Jerry Owens next year in CF.

btrain929
11-27-2007, 10:44 PM
The thing about KW, Boras, and Jones, is that KW won't overpay mediocre players that are represented by Boras. I can understand that. He has been able to get some bad-mediocre players some great/ridiculous contracts. But in the case of Jones, he's actually a great player and deserves a big contract. Last year for Andruw might have given us the best shot to sign him. I'd give him a 5 yr 16-17 mil each year contract before i'd give Hunter 5/75 or 5/60 to Rowand. He's younger, is equal to or greater than Hunter in the field, and is a better hitter than all of them. If Jones had a normal season last year, he might have gotten 6 yrs/120 mil. Since he didn't, that might enable us to get him for about as cheap as possible for a player of his calibur. Now whether KW is thinking about any of this or not, I think he's really worth a look. If no teams offer him more than 5/90, i'd do whatever I could to get him.

Rockabilly
11-27-2007, 11:10 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071127sox,1,6934455.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Domeshot17
11-27-2007, 11:32 PM
Talk about a captain of the obvious article

Thanks Mark

Now I know Aaron Rowand lets his agent handle all of his contract negotiations and he works out in the winter...or and he grew up in Glendora!

Brian26
11-27-2007, 11:33 PM
Tailgunner is reporting that Rowand isn't coming here. Take that FWIW.

Did he find this out from Rowand's wife? If so, I'll pencil him in for CF and batting sixth next year.

:duck:

WhiteSox5187
11-28-2007, 06:57 AM
the Sun Times says Rowand isn't coming here, my dad told me that I don't know if taht was tail gunner Joe or not or if this is what JB was talking about...let the Coco Crisp experiment begin!

spawn
11-28-2007, 07:11 AM
Cowey's article is now up. From the article (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/670126,CST-SPT-sox28.article):


According to a Sox source close to the situation, Rowand actually was Plan 1-A this offseason, and the Sox contacted him before they started talking numbers with Hunter to see if the sides were in the same neighborhood. They weren't even in the same area code.
While no details were offered, preliminary talks with Rowand did not even get past the number of years. In other words, the man who patrolled center field like a Rottweiler for the Sox from 2001 to '05 likely will remain a memory in the minds of Sox fans while he entertains possible offers from the Texas Rangers and Los Angeles Dodgers.

soxwon
11-28-2007, 07:31 AM
i love coco crisp, but prefer frosted flakes.
crisp-cabrerra-thome-konerko-dye-fields-aj-crede-uribe
wow thats a hell of a lineup, one of baseballs best.

Frontman
11-28-2007, 07:32 AM
12 million for a .280 hitter 18 hrs and 66 RBI's playing an average defense is a joke.

It might be a joke, but sadly that's the market now. Rowand will get that type of money (if not better.) The question is if he gets it from the Sox or from someone else.

dickallen15
11-28-2007, 07:57 AM
Cowley is goofy. Why would Colorado be interested in a physically questionable Joe Crede when they have Garrett Atkins playing 3rd base?

thedudeabides
11-28-2007, 08:34 AM
Cowley is goofy. Why would Colorado be interested in a physically questionable Joe Crede when they have Garrett Atkins playing 3rd base?

It wouldn't make any sense. I wouldn't put a whole lot of thought into what Cowley writes. It'll eventually make your brain hurt real bad.

russ99
11-28-2007, 09:04 AM
Cowley is goofy. Why would Colorado be interested in a physically questionable Joe Crede when they have Garrett Atkins playing 3rd base?

And why would the Sox want Willy Tavarez? He's an OK fielder (bad jumps and takes bad routes to balls, but makes up with his speed) with a great arm and stolen-base threat, but is weak at the plate.

He's a slap hitter and has to beat out ground balls all the time, with zero power and he's even a poor line drive hitter. He's also poor at drawing walks, bunting for hits and strikes out way too much for a leadoff hitter.

Last year's numbers were obviously inflated by playing at Coors, check out his numbers with Houston in '06, that's more like what we'd get.

Willy Tavarez is basically Jerry Owens with a little more speed and 2 more years experience. Despite my questioning of Coco Crisp, he's a much more complete player than Tavarez.

I'd hope Kenny would go for hitting (especially on-base) first and fielding second when choosing which CF to go after.

santo=dorf
11-28-2007, 09:52 AM
He's a slap hitter and has to beat out ground balls all the time, with zero power and he's even a poor line drive hitter. He's also poor at drawing walks, bunting for hits and strikes out way too much for a leadoff hitter.

Sounds like an Ozzie player to me.

SoxFan78
11-28-2007, 10:51 AM
Cowley also said that the Sox were really, really close to signing Torii Hunter, and look how that played out. I won't believe anything until I see a press release.

rowand33
11-28-2007, 11:01 AM
from rotoworld:

According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Aaron Rowand and the White Sox "weren't even in the same area code" in contract negotiations.

The newspaper reports that "preliminary talks with Rowand did not even get past the number of years" and suggests that the White Sox could instead pursue a trade for Coco Crisp or Willy Taveras.

I hope to god we do better than Coco Crisp or Willy Taveras. Those guys suck.

Crawford or Jones please.

doublem23
11-28-2007, 11:04 AM
Ah yes, it looks like Kenny is now opening the envelop on Plan D...

Lots and lots of prayer.

mjmcend
11-28-2007, 11:16 AM
Depending on what we had to give up, I would prefer Crisp to $12 million/5 year contract for Rowand.

Three year splits:

Rowand : .283/.344/.438 32 SB in 44 Attempts (73% success rate)

Crisp: .279/.332/.415 65 SB in 81 Attempts (80% success rate)

Crisp is signed very reasonably: 08:$4.75M, 09:$5.75M, 10:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout).

And Crisp's defense blows Rowand's away.

rowand33
11-28-2007, 11:28 AM
The BoSox want a right handed bullpen arm.

If the cost of Coco Crisp is MacDougal or AAArdsma, I'll glady take Crisp in center over Rowand.

Though I don't think the Red Sox would be interested in those guys.

SBSoxFan
11-28-2007, 11:52 AM
Cowey's article is now up. From the article (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/670126,CST-SPT-sox28.article):

If Rowand was 1-A and Hunter 1-B, who was 1?

Gammons Peter
11-28-2007, 12:01 PM
If Rowand was 1-A and Hunter 1-B, who was 1?

I liked how, in the original article last week, there was a plan 1A and 1B then there was plan B (should have been plan 2 or 2A and 2B) I guess he never wrote an outline

SBSoxFan
11-28-2007, 12:07 PM
I liked how, in the original article last week, there was a plan 1A and 1B then there was plan B (should have been plan 2 or 2A and 2B) I guess he never wrote an outline

hehe. Good point. Stanford people probably don't need outlines.

Lip Man 1
11-28-2007, 12:10 PM
It's very interesting the way the three newspapers framed this.

The Tribune's Mark Gonzales spoke with Rowand and the tone of the story says (to me) anything is possible, no doors are closed yer.

The Sun-Times headlines basically says 'it's over...' there is no way Rowand is coming or the Sox are negotiating. Very definite. (of couse we all remember Hunter don't we?)

The Daily Southtown reprinted the Sun Times story but the headline is softer, more muted saying 'it's not likely' leaving open the possibility.

I just find it interesting the way the newspapers choose to 'spin' this.

Lip

Sockinchisox
11-28-2007, 12:30 PM
I know we should be trusting our own city stuff but CBSSportsline is saying we're showing "serious interest" in Rowand. But it doesn't go any further than that, which leads me to believe it's just them putting two and two together.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10498424/2

AZChiSoxFan
11-28-2007, 12:32 PM
It was Brian's, and we found out that he blows. That's why Mack played later on.

Look, I know now that BA isn't going to ever be a ML ballplayer but the fact of the matter is that he was never really given an opportunity in 2006. On opening day, IIRC he went 2-4. So naturally, Mac got the start for game 2 of the season. What a joke.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I get it, I know that BA sucks. However, I'm worried that Ozzie just got lucky with that situation. The next time we have a young player who comes up, I hope that Ozzie really gives the guy a genuine opportunity to succeed.

btrain929
11-28-2007, 12:38 PM
Look, I know now that BA isn't going to ever be a ML ballplayer but the fact of the matter is that he was never really given an opportunity in 2006. On opening day, IIRC he went 2-4. So naturally, Mac got the start for game 2 of the season. What a joke.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I get it, I know that BA sucks. However, I'm worried that Ozzie just got lucky with that situation. The next time we have a young player who comes up, I hope that Ozzie really gives the guy a genuine opportunity to succeed.

He gave that chance to Owens, and for his rookie year, did pretty damn well.

kba
11-28-2007, 12:42 PM
I just find it interesting the way the newspapers choose to 'spin' this.

Lip

That's probably because there's very little actual news in any of this.

Rowand said absolutely nothing newsworthy in the Tribune interview: "Whatever happens happens." "I let my agent handle that other stuff."

Cowley found one source in the Sox organization who said the team "had preliminary talks" with Rowand a few weeks ago and - at least at the time - the Sox weren't willing to meet his contract demands. No indication from Joe that he bothered to follow up with Rowand, his agent, or anybody in the organization to confirm that his lone source was accurate or to see if anything's changed since Hunter signed with the Angels.

Nonetheless, Joe pulls out his crystal ball (the same one that had Buehrle pitching for Boston and Hunter signing with the Sox) and confidently declares "Aaron Rowand out of picture."

Sounds to me like it's all speculation and "spin" on a slow news day ...

thomas35forever
11-28-2007, 01:03 PM
The Sun-Times report kind of sounds reasonable, but with the Tribune report, I'm not sure which to believe.

I would take Coco Crisp over Taveras in a heartbeat.

FedEx227
11-28-2007, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't mind Taveras, but he is in reality another, less consistent Podsednik. :(:

Fenway
11-28-2007, 01:57 PM
"The Yankees reportedly told Aaron Rowand's agent they would have interest in the center fielder if they trade Melky Cabrera."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=226699&spln=1 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3284&line=226699&spln=1)

RowanDye
11-28-2007, 02:25 PM
Depending on what we had to give up, I would prefer Crisp to $12 million/5 year contract for Rowand.

Three year splits:

Rowand : .283/.344/.438 32 SB in 44 Attempts (73% success rate)

Crisp: .279/.332/.415 65 SB in 81 Attempts (80% success rate)

Crisp is signed very reasonably: 08:$4.75M, 09:$5.75M, 10:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout).

And Crisp's defense blows Rowand's away.

Rowand has significantly better power #'s though. I agree that Rowand will be overpaid, but other than the stolen bases he is across the board better than Crisp. With his power #'s, Rowand could potentially move to the corner in the later years of the contract.

We just need to make an offer( no more than $60M for 5 yrs.) and wait it out. If someone wants to pay more, then let them pay.

The Milkman
11-28-2007, 03:57 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/670126,CST-SPT-sox28.article

ChetChat
11-28-2007, 04:00 PM
"patrolled center field like a Rottweiler "
Now THAT's funny..

getonbckthr
11-28-2007, 04:00 PM
:clap:

spawn
11-28-2007, 04:02 PM
*Ahem* (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1731811#post1731811)

chisoxmike
11-28-2007, 04:03 PM
If you read the Trib story, it paints a different picture.

Who knows whats going on? :dunno:

PS- The Rowand fest thread in What's the Score already posted this article from the SunTimes.

DickAllen72
11-28-2007, 04:05 PM
Rowand has significantly better power #'s though. I agree that Rowand will be overpaid, but other than the stolen bases he is across the board better than Crisp. With his power #'s, Rowand could potentially move to the corner in the later years of the contract.

Plus Rowand only costs money not players to obtain. The Sox can afford to spend some money but they can't afford to give up much talent.

santo=dorf
11-28-2007, 04:24 PM
He gave that chance to Owens, and for his rookie year, did pretty damn well.
The situations with the two players are WAAAYYY different and you know it. Owens came up due to injuries while the team was dead in the water. Anderson was the opening day starter on the defending champions.

JRIG
11-28-2007, 04:33 PM
"patrolled center field like a Rottweiler "
Now THAT's funny..

Only if that Rottweiler was chasing his tail and ended up running into a wall.

WS4life
11-29-2007, 01:55 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/670126,CST-SPT-sox28.article

Found this interesting.

spawn
11-29-2007, 01:56 PM
We found that yesterday.

WS4life
11-29-2007, 01:58 PM
sorry for the double post. Moderators can remove. I did not see it posted.

thomas35forever
11-29-2007, 01:58 PM
What is this, the third time this story has been linked?

AJ Hellraiser
11-29-2007, 01:59 PM
I talked with 2 solid sources in the Chicago media yesterday and that story is very misleading....

Basically, KW and Rowand talked right as free agency began and Rowand basically wanted years and money KW was surprised with... KW figured it wasn't going to cost much more to go after Hunter (whom most consider the better player) so he did just that....

Now, the story would make you think Rowand is out of the question even at this time... However, after losing out on Hunter KW will continue trying on Rowand....

Hopefully, that makes sense....

jenn2080
11-29-2007, 02:01 PM
What is this, the third time this story has been linked?


I think you are correct.

soxfan13
11-29-2007, 02:04 PM
Who is this Aaron Rowand we speak of? Is he the next coming of Willie Mays?:tongue:

spiffie
11-29-2007, 02:06 PM
Who is this Aaron Rowand we speak of? Is he the next coming of Willie Mays?:tongue:
No, he's the worst player in the history of baseball. He's worse than Pete Gray if you chopped off Pete's other arm. No team with Aaron Rowand as their CF could ever realistically hope to compete for a World Series.

soxfan13
11-29-2007, 02:08 PM
No, he's the worst player in the history of baseball. He's worse than Pete Gray if you chopped off Pete's other arm. No team with Aaron Rowand as their CF could ever realistically hope to compete for a World Series.

Wow, then why do so many people want him on the White Sox?:gulp:

Hitmen77
11-29-2007, 02:49 PM
I talked with 2 solid sources in the Chicago media yesterday and that story is very misleading....

Basically, KW and Rowand talked right as free agency began and Rowand basically wanted years and money KW was surprised with... KW figured it wasn't going to cost much more to go after Hunter (whom most consider the better player) so he did just that....

Now, the story would make you think Rowand is out of the question even at this time... However, after losing out on Hunter KW will continue trying on Rowand....

Hopefully, that makes sense....

That does make sense. Of course, I'm in no position to say whether it's true or not, but it sounds like a plausible scenario and I could see how that could be spun the way Cowley is reporting.

Hitmen77
11-29-2007, 02:56 PM
Who is this Aaron Rowand we speak of? Is he the next coming of Willie Mays?:tongue:

No, he's the worst player in the history of baseball. He's worse than Pete Gray if you chopped off Pete's other arm. No team with Aaron Rowand as their CF could ever realistically hope to compete for a World Series.

LOL!

I think you guys nailed it as far as many of the posters here. Why does everyone have to take such an extreme, polarized view of Rowand (either for or against)?

To me, he is just one of our narrowing options to fill our CF hole. He's not the perfect answer, but he is a viable option at a time when our choices are getting more limited since Hunter is gone, Jones is a Boras client, and now Crawford is apparently not going anywhere. Plus, I think the Red Sox are going to ask for alot in exchange for Crisp.

CLR01
11-29-2007, 02:56 PM
Wow, then why do so many people want him on the White Sox?:gulp:

Because he is actually the missing piece of any non-WS winning team. There is a reason the Sox haven't won since he got traded...

Pasqua's Mailman
11-29-2007, 03:16 PM
Because he is actually the missing piece of any non-WS winning team. There is a reason the Sox haven't won since he got traded...

Yeah, its called sub-part starting pitching and a crappy bullpen..

Sargeant79
11-29-2007, 03:52 PM
Yeah, its called sub-part starting pitching and a crappy bullpen..

No to be picky, but it's actually called sub-par starting pitching and a crappy bullpen.

WhiteSox5187
11-29-2007, 03:58 PM
I talked with 2 solid sources in the Chicago media yesterday and that story is very misleading....

Basically, KW and Rowand talked right as free agency began and Rowand basically wanted years and money KW was surprised with... KW figured it wasn't going to cost much more to go after Hunter (whom most consider the better player) so he did just that....

Now, the story would make you think Rowand is out of the question even at this time... However, after losing out on Hunter KW will continue trying on Rowand....

Hopefully, that makes sense....
Well...if the proposed Johan to the Red Sox deal goes through that takes Coco Crisp out of consideration too, meaning that IF the Sox want to upgrade in CF they are left with either Jones (and Boras) or Rowand...could be the Sox don't think they need to upgrade though.

PorkChopExpress
11-29-2007, 04:11 PM
Well...if the proposed Johan to the Red Sox deal goes through that takes Coco Crisp out of consideration too, meaning that IF the Sox want to upgrade in CF they are left with either Jones (and Boras) or Rowand...could be the Sox don't think they need to upgrade though.

Well, if the Sox could get a big LF, then it sounds like KW will be fine with Owens in CF. Plus there are more trade possibilities.

oeo
11-29-2007, 04:14 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/670126,CST-SPT-sox28.article

Found this interesting.

Ahh...Mr. Cowley. The same guy that said a deal for Hunter was all but finished. This must mean Rowand will be signed by Monday.

chisoxjtrain
11-29-2007, 05:34 PM
I found this on whitesox.com: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

"It would be wonderful to go back to Chicago," Rowand added. "I love the city. I love the fans. I love my Bears. It's a great organization. Good coaches. Good ownership. Good everything. Let's see what happens. When the time comes, I'll weigh my options and see what the best fit is for me and my family."

Daver
11-29-2007, 05:36 PM
Wow, then why do so many people want him on the White Sox?:gulp:

To continue the long tradition of mediocre outfield defense that we have become accustomed to.

santo=dorf
11-29-2007, 05:38 PM
I found this on whitesox.com: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Tribune Translation
Sullivan: Rowand Envys Ivy.
"I love the city. I love the fans (Bleacher Bums.) I love my Bears(Retired Chicago Cubs, Ron Santo and Ernie Banks.) It's a great organization (Tribune Company.) Good coaches (Minor league managers including legend Ryne Sandberg.) Good ownership(Us, I mean, Tribune again.) Good everything(Except for South Side.)"

ode to veeck
11-29-2007, 05:39 PM
To continue the long tradition of mediocre outfield defense that we have become accustomed to.

LOL, but hey, Rowand's bad routes have improved! Any contract would have to include additional padding in CF walls

DickAllen72
11-29-2007, 05:43 PM
I found this on whitesox.com: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
I found this part of the article interesting:


Leaving behind Greg Walker, a man Rowand refers to as "not only the best hitting coach in baseball, hands down, but also one of my best friends," Rowand was forced to rely more on his own knowledge to make corrections with his swing. This bit of personal growth should help answer critics who point to 2007 as a spectacular anomaly compared to his past solid seasons.

"During the last couple of years, I learned a lot about myself and my swing," said Rowand, who hit .309 in 2007, with 27 home runs, 45 doubles, 89 RBIs and 105 runs scored. "[In Chicago] I depended on [Walker] to watch and break down every one of my swings, and I leaned on him and depended on him too much, instead of learning a feel.

"Milt Thompson is Philadelphia's hitting coach, and I have nothing bad to say about Milt whatsoever. But he doesn't break down your swing mechanically the way that Walker does. He's more of a feel guy than about mechanics with the swing. "So it's almost like I became my own hitting coach and had to make adjustments myself," Rowand added. "I'm already out swinging right now. Two months have gone by, and normally when I start hitting, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. This year, I feel like I'm right there still."

It appears getting away from Walker (the best hitting coach in baseball, according to Rowand) helped Aaron become a much better hitter.

dickallen15
11-29-2007, 05:44 PM
Rowand's not the greatest OF in the world, but saying he's bad because he crashes into walls is proposterous. There's a warning track. He'd have to be the dumbest person in the world not to know he's close to a fence, but like a receiver willing to go over the middle to catch a ball in the NFL, he's willing to accept the punishment and keeps going for the ball when others would back off.

Sockinchisox
11-29-2007, 05:48 PM
I found this part of the article interesting:


Leaving behind Greg Walker, a man Rowand refers to as "not only the best hitting coach in baseball, hands down, but also one of my best friends," Rowand was forced to rely more on his own knowledge to make corrections with his swing. This bit of personal growth should help answer critics who point to 2007 as a spectacular anomaly compared to his past solid seasons.

"During the last couple of years, I learned a lot about myself and my swing," said Rowand, who hit .309 in 2007, with 27 home runs, 45 doubles, 89 RBIs and 105 runs scored. "[In Chicago] I depended on [Walker] to watch and break down every one of my swings, and I leaned on him and depended on him too much, instead of learning a feel.

"Milt Thompson is Philadelphia's hitting coach, and I have nothing bad to say about Milt whatsoever. But he doesn't break down your swing mechanically the way that Walker does. He's more of a feel guy than about mechanics with the swing. "So it's almost like I became my own hitting coach and had to make adjustments myself," Rowand added. "I'm already out swinging right now. Two months have gone by, and normally when I start hitting, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. This year, I feel like I'm right there still."

It appears getting away from Walker (the best hitting coach in baseball, according to Rowand) helped Aaron become a much better hitter.

Let the Rowand media tour begin.

Frontman
11-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Doesn't sound like the deal is on or off with Rowand for now; but at least it sounds like the possibility for his return is there.

Time will tell. I for one would welcome him back, as he'd be an upgrade over the young guns we've had out there this past season.


(When I say guns, I really mean spagetti arms.)

jsg-07
11-30-2007, 08:26 AM
It almost sounds as if he is starting to realize that he may not get anywhere near tori money so he is still not trying to burn any bridges. I have said all along I would love to have the guy back and I even wanted him over Tori, but I wanted him at 8-10 mil for 4 years maybe 5 tops (because of the market) over 15 for tori.

Man next week is going to be fun. Hopefully work is not busy...

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 01:14 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=cr (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3135031)asnick_jerry&id=3135031 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3135031)

The anticipated lovefest between Rowand and the White Sox has hit a few snags. First, the White Sox made Torii Hunter their priority, and Rowand prepared to go in a different direction. The two sides rekindled talks once Hunter signed with the Angels, but they've made zero progress.

The Sox don't want to go beyond four years, and Rowand and his agent, Landis, are seeking a minimum of five. "That was our biggest point of disagreement," Landis said.

Hitmen77
11-30-2007, 01:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=cr (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3135031)asnick_jerry&id=3135031 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3135031)

What doesn't make sense to me about this story is why the Sox would be willing to give 5 years for a 32 year old player but no more than 4 years for someone who is two years younger.

I could see if the Sox decided that Rowand was not worth as much $$ per year as Hunter, but I'm not sure what would make 4 years of Rowand acceptable while 5 years of Rowand is not.

I ask this at the risk of igniting the wrath of all the Rowand-lovers and Rowand-haters on this site.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2007, 02:13 PM
What doesn't make sense to me about this story is why the Sox would be willing to give 5 years for a 32 year old player but no more than 4 years for someone who is two years younger.

I could see if the Sox decided that Rowand was not worth as much $$ per year as Hunter, but I'm not sure what would make 4 years of Rowand acceptable while 5 years of Rowand is not.

I ask this at the risk of igniting the wrath of all the Rowand-lovers and Rowand-haters on this site.

I was wondering this too. All I can guess is that perhaps Kenny sees Aaron as more of an injury risk with the way he plays.

spawn
11-30-2007, 02:29 PM
What doesn't make sense to me about this story is why the Sox would be willing to give 5 years for a 32 year old player but no more than 4 years for someone who is two years younger.

I could see if the Sox decided that Rowand was not worth as much $$ per year as Hunter, but I'm not sure what would make 4 years of Rowand acceptable while 5 years of Rowand is not.

I ask this at the risk of igniting the wrath of all the Rowand-lovers and Rowand-haters on this site.
I think it's a very good question to ask. I have to agree with JD05...it could be the injury risk. Torii hasn't had to miss a game due to running into a fence. I love Rowand's style, but he is a bit reckless.

dickallen15
11-30-2007, 02:30 PM
I think it's a very good question to ask. I have to agree with JD05...it could be the injury risk. Torii hasn't had to miss a game due to running into a fence. I lvoe Rowand's style, but he is a bit reckless.
Didn't Hunter break his ankle colliding with a wall in Fenway Park a couple of years ago?

spawn
11-30-2007, 02:31 PM
Didn't Hunter break his ankle colliding with a wall in Fenway Park a couple of years ago?
Did he? If he did, I missed it.

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 02:35 PM
Did he? If he did, I missed it.

He did, in 05.

spawn
11-30-2007, 02:36 PM
He did, in 05.
Ahh...my bad!

JermaineDye05
11-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Didn't Hunter break his ankle colliding with a wall in Fenway Park a couple of years ago?

I think that was more of a freak accident then Torii being reckless. I remember he jumped to make the catch and when he came down his foot got caught on something on the wall. I hardly ever see Torii running into walls, more climbing. Aaron tends to run into the wall a little over a few times a year.

CLR01
11-30-2007, 02:40 PM
Yeah, its called sub-part starting pitching and a crappy bullpen..

That's what you haters want everyone to believe.

Taliesinrk
11-30-2007, 02:52 PM
I think it's a very good question to ask. I have to agree with JD05...it could be the injury risk. Torii hasn't had to miss a game due to running into a fence. I lvoe Rowand's style, but he is a bit reckless.

Didnt read the article, but could it be because the market isn't forcing him to offer that much time?

thomas35forever
11-30-2007, 04:47 PM
Don't rule Rowand out yet:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 04:57 PM
Don't rule Rowand out yet:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

That was posted a page back.

Law11
11-30-2007, 09:16 PM
Don't rule Rowand out yet:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

after 15 pages of comments I for one missed it. Thanks for posting it again.

ksimpson14
12-01-2007, 03:40 AM
Phillies likely to offer arbitration:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071130&content_id=2314508&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

Chances Rowand accepts? I would guess that would suck, with other teams still looking for OFs, the few that remain get jacked up even more?

If NY gets Santana and gives up Cabrera, they'll be looking too

103 screwball
12-01-2007, 08:55 AM
Chances Rowand accepts?Zero. No chance unless he has a long term deal with the Phillies that just needs to be finalized and from everything I've read, that won't happen. Rowand is getting a 5 year deal at least.

Hitmen77
12-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Phillies likely to offer arbitration:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071130&content_id=2314508&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

Chances Rowand accepts? I would guess that would suck, with other teams still looking for OFs, the few that remain get jacked up even more?

If NY gets Santana and gives up Cabrera, they'll be looking too

This is pretty much a no-brainer move for the Phils. They're doing it to secure draft picks if they lose him.

...his status as a Type A free agent, meaning the Phillies receive the first-round Draft pick of the team that signs him, plus a "sandwich" pick between the first and second rounds. If, however, that team finished with one of the 15 worst records last season, the Phillies will receive that team's sandwich pick.

SOXfnNlansing
12-01-2007, 05:33 PM
LAS VEGAS -- You can take Aaron Rowand out of Chicago but you can't take Chicago out of Aaron Rowand. Sitting in a Las Vegas resort over lunch Wednesday, Rowand came dressed in one of his favorite uniforms -- a Chicago Bears sweatshirt...........................

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

JermaineDye05
12-01-2007, 05:39 PM
LAS VEGAS -- You can take Aaron Rowand out of Chicago but you can't take Chicago out of Aaron Rowand. Sitting in a Las Vegas resort over lunch Wednesday, Rowand came dressed in one of his favorite uniforms -- a Chicago Bears sweatshirt...........................

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071129&content_id=2313817&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

You have got to be kidding me..

And people tell me I need to use the search function lol.

DumpJerry
12-01-2007, 05:41 PM
Sounds like he'll be signing with the Cubs.:rolleyes:

CLR01
12-02-2007, 12:02 AM
Sounds like he'll be signing with the Cubs.:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like he has ****ty tastes in clothes. :dunno:

voodoochile
12-02-2007, 12:05 AM
Sounds to me like he has ****ty tastes in clothes. :dunno:

Yeah, nothing says high fashion like a teal shirt and orange trousers. Throw in some white loafers with tassels and you are bound to have people oogling you...

Domeshot17
12-02-2007, 12:11 AM
Guys maybe he should be rocking one of these?

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/domeshot17/wins.jpg

WhiteSox5187
12-02-2007, 12:16 AM
I think the process of signing Rowand isn't going to happen overnight, I think that Kenny probably wants to be quite quiet about this (seeing as how he kinda got burned with the Torii thing), Rowand is going to want to see how the market plays out cuz that could make his price increase and Kenny isn't going to rush things because Rowand's price could fall as well...having said that, my gut feeling is that he'll sign with the Sox.

Jjav829
12-02-2007, 08:52 AM
I think the process of signing Rowand isn't going to happen overnight, I think that Kenny probably wants to be quite quiet about this (seeing as how he kinda got burned with the Torii thing), Rowand is going to want to see how the market plays out cuz that could make his price increase and Kenny isn't going to rush things because Rowand's price could fall as well...having said that, my gut feeling is that he'll sign with the Sox.

Rowand's agent has already stated that he will use the winter meetings to shop Rowand to other teams. I'd guess that Rowand will sign by next Sunday.

CLR01
12-02-2007, 10:27 AM
Guys maybe he should be rocking one of these?

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/domeshot17/wins.jpg

He could be wearing a pink tutu, fishnets, and 6 inch heels and it would be better than than crap Bears sweater. The zero would be an excellent choice for him though.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2007, 10:35 AM
He could be wearing a pink tutu, fishnets, and 6 inch heels...Is that what the Fish are wearing this year? No wonder why the are 0 and whatever.

Sockinchisox
12-03-2007, 08:01 AM
The Dodgers are shifting their focus away from Rowand and are now focusing on Jones.

Flight #24
12-03-2007, 11:14 AM
The Dodgers are shifting their focus away from Rowand and are now focusing on Jones.

Interestingly, it's also reported that they're not budging off of 2 years for Jones. So would a 3yr-$18M/yr deal get it done? I'm not sure that I think it's a great deal (could be a steal, could be a bust), but at least the length is less risky. But This also could get Rowand to come to the table (even though I don't think a 5/$60 contract is excessive for him in the current market).

Sockinchisox
12-03-2007, 11:33 AM
Levine said he spoke to Landis and Landis said the Sox are not out of the running for Rowand's service by a long shot, he said Rowand isn't looking for a lot of money he just wants the 5 years because of Hunter's 5 yr deal.

btrain929
12-03-2007, 11:39 AM
Levine said he spoke to Landis and Landis said the Sox are not out of the running for Rowand's service by a long shot, he said Rowand isn't looking for a lot of money he just wants the 5 years because of Hunter's 5 yr deal.

5/45. C'mon, be a team player ARow!

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2007, 12:24 PM
The Dodgers are shifting their focus away from Rowand and are now focusing on Jones.
That's good cuz that drives the price for Rowand down...we'll see. But I think a deal gets done with the Sox this week. But we'll see.

soxfan123
12-03-2007, 01:34 PM
That's good cuz that drives the price for Rowand down...we'll see. But I think a deal gets done with the Sox this week. But we'll see.

Then we don't have a leadoff hitter...Quentin in left can't lead off. With Rowand in center, that puts Owens on the bench and Cabrera (?) leading off.

russ99
12-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Then we don't have a leadoff hitter...Quentin in left can't lead off. With Rowand in center, that puts Owens on the bench and Cabrera (?) leading off.

No kidding, I don't like it either, but Kenny's obviously not done...

Maybe grab a leadoff hitter that plays 2B, maybe make a deal with the Angels for Figgins...

Paulwny
12-03-2007, 04:56 PM
Rumor, if Milky Cabrera is part of the deal for Santana the yanks will make a push for Rowand .

Tragg
12-03-2007, 06:09 PM
It seems to me that Rowand isn't a great fit on the current configuration of the Sox.
We don't have a leadoff hitter, so we need our CF to hit leadoff - Rowand can't.
And if Rowand plays LF, as many suggest he should, his O is really deficient and as a LF, he may be a 8 Millionish player, not the 12 or 13 he is marketed as..

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2007, 08:52 PM
Is this Quintin kid going to be starting in LF for sure?

Rockabilly
12-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Is this Quintin kid going to be starting in LF for sure?

KW said that Carlos will be able to give Thome, Dye off days and that he is not finished making our OF better.. I think we will have a new OF soon

ND_Sox_Fan
12-03-2007, 11:22 PM
According to our friend Rosenthal (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7520112), Rowand has a 5-year offer - unnamed team of course.

The White Sox can forget it if they expect free-agent center fielder Aaron Rowand to eventually settle for a four-year contract; Rowand already has a five-year offer from an unspecified club, according to major league sources. The Phillies also want Rowand back on a shorter deal, and the Dodgers might be adopting a similar position. The Yankees still could be a factor if they trade Melky Cabrera.

Even if it is true, I don't know why Rosenthal thinks that Aaron would automatically accept a 5-year deal from a Texas or Kansas City versus a 4-year deal from the Sox. I give Aaron a little more credit than that.

WhiteSox5187
12-04-2007, 12:49 AM
According to our friend Rosenthal (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7520112), Rowand has a 5-year offer - unnamed team of course.



Even if it is true, I don't know why Rosenthal thinks that Aaron would automatically accept a 5-year deal from a Texas or Kansas City versus a 4-year deal from the Sox. I give Aaron a little more credit than that.
We'll see, I think a deal with Rowand (either with the Sox or not) will be done more towards the end of the week. I don't think any deal is on the verge of being done though.

soxinem1
12-04-2007, 06:03 AM
Though I have nothing against him coming back, I am beginning to feel that this will not happen. It just seems seems that Rowand does not fit in here as he would somewhere else.

I think one of the reasons he played well in PHI is because he established himself individually on that team as one of the main cogs in the lineup. Here, he was not that guy, and I cannot see how he could be now.

Where do you hit him? The only guys you can legitimately bat him ahead of are AJ, Richar, and maybe Crede. So you pay $12-15 million a year for a #6 or #7 hitter like Rowand? No way, not when you have the holes this team does.

Plus, signing Rowand (and this would also be the case if Hunter was signed) makes the lineup very RHH heavy, even if the new LF is a LHH.

KW might have to be at his creative best this off-season.

Jjav829
12-04-2007, 06:57 AM
Though I have nothing against him coming back, I am beginning to feel that this will not happen. It just seems seems that Rowand does not fit in here as he would somewhere else.

I think one of the reasons he played well in PHI is because he established himself individually on that team as one of the main cogs in the lineup. Here, he was not that guy, and I cannot see how he could be now.

Where do you hit him? The only guys you can legitimately bat him ahead of are AJ, Richar, and maybe Crede. So you pay $12-15 million a year for a #6 or #7 hitter like Rowand? No way, not when you have the holes this team does.

Plus, signing Rowand (and this would also be the case if Hunter was signed) makes the lineup very RHH heavy, even if the new LF is a LHH.

KW might have to be at his creative best this off-season.

Established himself as one of the main cogs? In a lineup that had NL MVP Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard? He was the 4th best hitter on that team.

Jjav829
12-04-2007, 06:58 AM
According to our friend Rosenthal (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7520112), Rowand has a 5-year offer - unnamed team of course.



Even if it is true, I don't know why Rosenthal thinks that Aaron would automatically accept a 5-year deal from a Texas or Kansas City versus a 4-year deal from the Sox. I give Aaron a little more credit than that.

Those sneaky Pirates. Nice try, but I don't think Rowand will be accepting your 5-year, $10 million deal.

ChiSoxPatF
12-04-2007, 07:07 AM
Under the assumption that Carlos Quentin is your LF, doesn't this make Rowand in center all but impossible? We would need our CF to be a leadoff hitter; a role Rowand really isn't suited for. :?:

Unless you're package Quentin somewhere else or using him as a backup OF, that trade does not make much sense coupled with a Rowand signing.

soxinem1
12-04-2007, 11:21 AM
Established himself as one of the main cogs? In a lineup that had NL MVP Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard? He was the 4th best hitter on that team.

Will he be the fourth best here? Was he the fourth best here before? He would at best be sixth in this line up.

IIRC, Rowand was called on to sacrifice and move along runners quite a bit with the White Sox. I sure don't remember him doing that very often with PHI.

I have a strange feeling he may wind up re-signing with the Phils, or wind up with TEX. I don't see owand being signed for $12-15 mill per season to be a #6-7 hitter.

And I don't see him taking a discount to come back.

Sockinchisox
12-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Levine says Rowand has not budged off of 5 years and wants 60-70 mil now.

russ99
12-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Levine says Rowand has not budged off of 5 years and wants 60-70 mil now.

Other than the one mystery team offering 5 years (which could be a Boras-like ploy) other teams are uncomfortable even offering 4 years. Aaron better get off his high horse thinking he's as good as Torii if he wants to sign anytime soon... or if he thinks the Sox are interested.

As for Rowand and the leadoff CF, that's not necessarily true. Cabrera could hit leadoff, even though he's best suited for #2, and Fields could bat #2. Optimally it would be better the other way around.

Flight #24
12-04-2007, 12:10 PM
I'm not sure what Fukudome would want, or even if I prefer him (his OBP & doubles #s are very attractive, however). And if Jones is more expensive but for fewer years (say 3/$50), I might go with him if they think he's likely to rebound and bat .260+ again.

But Rowand on a 4/$52M deal with a 5th year option at $14M or a buyout at $6M could work. Along the lines of a Buehrle structure.

Signing Rowand or Jones gives the Sox a million options to add via trade. They still wouldn't have a prototype leadoff guy, but Cabrera could fill the bill. Or you could go with Owens (LF). That then frees up some combination of Quentin, Sweeney, Anderson, Fields, Crede to package with one of Gio/DLS and some mix of guys like Egbert, Broadway, Floyd to add an impact player.

Jjav829
12-04-2007, 12:40 PM
Will he be the fourth best here? Was he the fourth best here before? He would at best be sixth in this line up.

IIRC, Rowand was called on to sacrifice and move along runners quite a bit with the White Sox. I sure don't remember him doing that very often with PHI.

I have a strange feeling he may wind up re-signing with the Phils, or wind up with TEX. I don't see owand being signed for $12-15 mill per season to be a #6-7 hitter.

And I don't see him taking a discount to come back.

Our 6th best hitter? Behind who? Thome, Konerko, Dye...?

Besides, what makes you think Rowand cares so much about where he bats in the lineup? He spent most of last season hitting 5th for the Phils. In 06, he primarily hit 6th for the Phils. You really think he's going to choose not to go somewhere because he's batting one or two spots lower?

If that's the case, then the rumors are all wrong. Rowand should be looking to go to the Giants or Pirates, someplace where he can bat in the middle-of-the-order. But I'm gonna guess that where he bats in the lineup is pretty far down on Rowand's list of priorities.