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Paulwny
11-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Possible problem if the report releases the names of foreign players.

From the NY Times:
Hill, familiar with Major League Baseball and its players, many of whom have been his clients, is an immigration lawyer in Washington. He knows that if the former senator George J. Mitchell (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/george_j_mitchell/index.html?inline=nyt-per) names foreign players in his report on steroid use, which is expected to be issued next month, the athletes could have difficulty receiving the visas they need to play in the United States.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/baseball/25chass.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

ND_Sox_Fan
11-24-2007, 05:27 PM
The tears are rolling down my face.

Is it "fair" that the foreign players could be penalized more than the US players? Yes. As part of the privilege of being allowed to come here to WORK, they have to be held to a standard of upholding the law and abiding by the rules of the visa game just as any scientist or professional.

These guys knew or should have known the rules when they decided to cheat.

I certainly hope there won't be any public sympathy for these clowns.

dakuda
11-24-2007, 07:25 PM
Tough. This is what I would call: natural consequences.

Daver
11-24-2007, 07:29 PM
Possible problem if the report releases the names of foreign players.

From the NY Times:
Hill, familiar with Major League Baseball and its players, many of whom have been his clients, is an immigration lawyer in Washington. He knows that if the former senator George J. Mitchell (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/george_j_mitchell/index.html?inline=nyt-per) names foreign players in his report on steroid use, which is expected to be issued next month, the athletes could have difficulty receiving the visas they need to play in the United States.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/baseball/25chass.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

I would think that the Immigration Department would have the burden of proving that the transgressions occurred in this country before they can withhold visas, as the use of those drugs is not illegal in many countries.

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 10:28 PM
I would think that the Immigration Department would have the burden of proving that the transgressions occurred in this country before they can withhold visas, as the use of those drugs is not illegal in many countries.Immigration departments don't have to prove anything. Nobody really has a right to enter the US. It was the same when I was trying to get into Canada. You have to prove you were unfairly declined entry. The burden of proof is on the immigrant. And the appeal process takes a long time.

Daver
11-24-2007, 10:33 PM
Immigration departments don't have to prove anything. Nobody really has a right to enter the US. It was the same when I was trying to get into Canada. You have to prove you were unfairly declined entry. The burden of proof is on the immigrant. And the appeal process takes a long time.

Ballplayers are not applying for resident visa's, they are applying for work visa's that have an expiration date, and are easier to acquire. I can see it being a problem if the player is seeking a resident visa.

the1tab
11-24-2007, 10:38 PM
I would think that the Immigration Department would have the burden of proving that the transgressions occurred in this country before they can withhold visas, as the use of those drugs is not illegal in many countries.

This logic doesn't fit. So if Barry Bonds drove down to Tijuana every Monday to take an injection in the thigh, it would be OK because it happened in "Anything-Goes-Ville"? Just because Roger Goodell is letting Ms. Amsterdam 2006, Rcky Williams, back into the NFL after his buddhist pot festival in Tibet doesn't mean that MLB should let anything go that happens somewhere else.

The rules are clear. Just play by them.

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 10:40 PM
Ballplayers are not applying for resident visa's, they are applying for work visa's that have an expiration date, and are easier to acquire. I can see it being a problem if the player is seeking a resident visa.Work, resident, it doesn't matter. It's the same people and the same rules. Messing with immigration is about as fruitful as messing with the IRS. Even if you win, you will pay a high price.

Daver
11-24-2007, 10:43 PM
Work, resident, it doesn't matter. It's the same people and the same rules. Messing with immigration is about as fruitful as messing with the IRS. Even if you win, you will pay a high price.

Years ago when I worked in the locomotive industry, we worked in Canada all the time on temp visa's, and never had a problem getting one within 24 hours, has it changed that much?

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 10:45 PM
Years ago when I worked in the locomotive industry, we worked in Canada all the time on temp visa's, and never had a problem getting one within 24 hours, has it changed that much?Not if you're clean and your application doesn't cross the desk of somebody having a very bad day. :D:

Daver
11-24-2007, 10:57 PM
This logic doesn't fit. So if Barry Bonds drove down to Tijuana every Monday to take an injection in the thigh, it would be OK because it happened in "Anything-Goes-Ville"? Just because Roger Goodell is letting Ms. Amsterdam 2006, Rcky Williams, back into the NFL after his buddhist pot festival in Tibet doesn't mean that MLB should let anything go that happens somewhere else.

The rules are clear. Just play by them.

What part of "foreign ballplayers" did you not understand?

Or do you need it explained in smaller words?

The Immigrant
11-24-2007, 11:00 PM
Refusing to extend the suspected cheaters' work visas would deprive the federal and state treasuries of millions of dollars in tax revenues, so I don't see it happening. As far as the legal side of it, as current non-immigrant residents of the U.S., the foreign players should have the right to challenge any decision denying their visa extensions - and I imagine that the point Daver made would be of interest to any immigration judge reviewing the denial.

Fenway
11-24-2007, 11:08 PM
Well the rumors indicate that Selig will suspend anyone on the list...

Hard to get a work visa if you can't work.

Canada BTW has been a major pain for getting visas for Latin ballplayers in the minors. That is why the NY-Penn League pulled out of Canada a few years back and now there are NO official minor league teams in Canada.

the1tab
11-24-2007, 11:23 PM
What part of "foreign ballplayers" did you not understand?

Or do you need it explained in smaller words?

If it's a matter of getting paid, citizenship isn't a hard thing to move.

Ask Derek Jeter about his income taxes.

I'm sure that for every player that's dying to get into this country to play baseball there are 50 average players in this country that would swap citizenships in a heartbeat if they could use whatever they wanted to hit 50 home runs for a few years and get paid. Where's Brady Anderson these days? Hanging out with Johnny Depp in France?

It's about who for and where you work. If you are a professional baseball player and you play for a team in the United States that is subject to the rules of MLB, then play by those rules when you're here or wherever you go. This isn't driving to Windsor for a Cuban cigar and some poker.

I guess as an average-Joe-American that busts his hump for his $, I'll never understand why, when God gives you the ability to make millions, you can't just not use drugs/drive drunk/be a deadbeat/play by the rules. The average lifespan of a professional career in any major sport is what? 1 year? You have your ticket punched for the rest of your life and you can't put it away for 12 months?

If you smoke it, patch it, "clear" it or inject it, you can sit in your hut wherever you came from and imagine the thousands cheering your name.

That's how I feel about Mitchell and his little book report.

Daver
11-24-2007, 11:38 PM
If it's a matter of getting paid, citizenship isn't a hard thing to move.

Ask Derek Jeter about his income taxes.

I'm sure that for every player that's dying to get into this country to play baseball there are 50 average players in this country that would swap citizenships in a heartbeat if they could use whatever they wanted to hit 50 home runs for a few years and get paid. Where's Brady Anderson these days? Hanging out with Johnny Depp in France?

It's about who for and where you work. If you are a professional baseball player and you play for a team in the United States that is subject to the rules of MLB, then play by those rules when you're here or wherever you go. This isn't driving to Windsor for a Cuban cigar and some poker.

I guess as an average-Joe-American that busts his hump for his $, I'll never understand why, when God gives you the ability to make millions, you can't just not use drugs/drive drunk/be a deadbeat/play by the rules. The average lifespan of a professional career in any major sport is what? 1 year? You have your ticket punched for the rest of your life and you can't put it away for 12 months?

If you smoke it, patch it, "clear" it or inject it, you can sit in your hut wherever you came from and imagine the thousands cheering your name.

That's how I feel about Mitchell and his little book report.

What the hell does any of this drivel have to do with the topic of the thread?

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 11:40 PM
What the hell does any of this drivel have to do with the topic of the thread?I couldn't even figure out what it meant. :?:

Brian26
11-25-2007, 12:05 AM
Years ago when I worked in the locomotive industry

What HAVEN'T you done? :D:

Daver
11-25-2007, 12:11 AM
What HAVEN'T you done? :D:

I have never worked for a circus.

Brian26
11-25-2007, 12:22 AM
I have never worked for a circus.

Being a moderator here doesn't count? :D:

Nellie_Fox
11-25-2007, 02:36 AM
Refusing to extend the suspected cheaters' work visas would deprive the federal and state treasuries of millions of dollars in tax revenues, so I don't see it happening. There will always be someone else earning those dollars and paying those taxes.

Frater Perdurabo
11-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Being a moderator here doesn't count? :D:

This is more of a freak show than a circus. :redneck

And I definitely include myself in that description.

DumpJerry
11-25-2007, 09:49 AM
One huge difference between US citizens and non-US Citizens is that Constitutional rights which apply to US citizens do not necessarily apply to non-US citizens. Therefore, a non-US citizen does not have the same due process rights to a visa that a US citizen has to a governmental privilege.

bigfoot
11-25-2007, 01:14 PM
One huge difference between US citizens and non-US Citizens is that Constitutional rights which apply to US citizens do not necessarily apply to non-US citizens. Therefore, a non-US citizen does not have the same due process rights to a visa that a US citizen has to a governmental privilege.

A person with legal immigrant status should have the same rights as any other citizen of the US while in the States.

Or I could be wrong.

Please correct me, if necessary.

FarWestChicago
11-25-2007, 02:48 PM
A person with legal immigrant status should have the same rights as any other citizen of the US while in the States.

Or I could be wrong.

Please correct me, if necessary.That is not correct. A legal, non-citizen immigrant can't vote and is subject to deportation at any time for breaking the law.

The Immigrant
11-25-2007, 03:02 PM
That is not correct. A legal, non-citizen immigrant can't vote and is subject to deportation at any time for breaking the law.

Permanent residents (green card holders) are subject to deportation only if they are convicted for a felony. Speeding tickets won't get you booted. Non-resident immigrants, such as foreign students and workers with special skills (such as engineers and middle relievers) can have their visas revoked or not extended for less, such as arrests or misdemeanor convictions, but if those individuals currently reside in the U.S. they still have due process rights that entitle them to a hearing before they can be booted.

It's true that non-citizens cannot vote, but they also are not subject to the draft. Those are the only two things that changed for me when I adjusted my status from permanent resident to naturalized citizen.

FarWestChicago
11-25-2007, 03:10 PM
Permanent residents (green card holders) are subject to deportation only if they are convicted for a felony.This is true and what I meant. I just didn't say it as well as you. :smile: