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View Full Version : Is anyone hoping Jones is Kenny's backup plan and not Rowand?


Trav
11-24-2007, 02:14 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

It says Williams had two plans before considering any of this moves to be backup plans.

oeo
11-24-2007, 03:04 AM
Depends on what the contract is. I think Andruw Jones is a sleeping giant; if we can cash in on that terrible 2007, I'd be all for it.

Chances are that won't happen, though.

getonbckthr
11-24-2007, 04:12 AM
I pray to god Rowand isn't even plan "J". Hopefully he is somewhere in between plan "W" and "Z".

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 06:56 AM
Depends on what the contract is. I think Andruw Jones is a sleeping giant; if we can cash in on that terrible 2007, I'd be all for it.

Chances are that won't happen, though.:borass:

What terrible 2007? The bidding for my truly awe inspiring client starts at 10 years at $20M per. Please don't waste my time with anything less.

JohnTucker0814
11-24-2007, 07:44 AM
I would love to have Andruw Jones. I don't care what it costs because it's not my money. The only problem I have is that if we spend a lot on him and JR doesn't want to spend any of his other money on another RP. I really don't give a **** how much these guys make, unless I'm writin' the check!

Madvora
11-24-2007, 07:48 AM
Yesterday's Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) had an interesting quote by KW.

"We have a Plan 1 and 1A and 1B and then there is Plan B," Williams said in a telephone interview.
So where is he now?
"Plan 1B," he replied.
Does that include getting two outfielders or one?
"If we get the right guy, just one," Williams said.
I assume KW is going to get one expensive (or kind of expensive) guy in the outfield, either LF or CF. Now if KW is being literal about this you would assume Hunter was Plan 1, maybe Miguel Cabrera would be 1A and Rowand 1B?
He says he's on 1B right now, but also says they will only get one outfielder if they get the right guy. I hope that doesn't mean they would get Rowand and end it with him and Owens in the outfield.

Obviously, KW could mean anything here. That's up to discussion, but that's why WSI is here anyway.
What does everyone else think?

dickallen15
11-24-2007, 08:11 AM
Its amazing to me how many people want Jones. He's had some attitude problems in the past, has had weight issues in the past, strikes out a ton, and with Boras as his agent, will never be a bargain. I did read where he tried to get in decent shape for 2007, his contract year. Wouldn't that be a red flag? I know baseball executives are concerned with his body and his tendency to pack on the pounds, ala Juan Uribe, so basically wouldn't this be overpaying for the CF version of Uribe?

btrain929
11-24-2007, 08:39 AM
Its amazing to me how many people want Jones. He's had some attitude problems in the past, has had weight issues in the past, strikes out a ton, and with Boras as his agent, will never be a bargain. I did read where he tried to get in decent shape for 2007, his contract year. Wouldn't that be a red flag? I know baseball executives are concerned with his body and his tendency to pack on the pounds, ala Juan Uribe, so basically wouldn't this be overpaying for the CF version of Uribe?

Let me think, no.

If he can put up .260/30/110 every year while being fat and lazy, i'll take it. If Ozzie talks any sense into him, we might have a .280/45/130 like we've seen the past few yrs from him. Andruw Jones and Juan Uribe should never be in the same sentence.

fquaye149
11-24-2007, 08:41 AM
Its amazing to me how many people want Jones. He's had some attitude problems in the past, has had weight issues in the past, strikes out a ton, and with Boras as his agent, will never be a bargain. I did read where he tried to get in decent shape for 2007, his contract year. Wouldn't that be a red flag? I know baseball executives are concerned with his body and his tendency to pack on the pounds, ala Juan Uribe, so basically wouldn't this be overpaying for the CF version of Uribe?

Even being "fat and lazy" he's had among the best #'s for CF's in most defensive metrics

RowanDye
11-24-2007, 08:41 AM
Its amazing to me how many people want Jones. He's had some attitude problems in the past, has had weight issues in the past, strikes out a ton, and with Boras as his agent, will never be a bargain. I did read where he tried to get in decent shape for 2007, his contract year. Wouldn't that be a red flag? I know baseball executives are concerned with his body and his tendency to pack on the pounds, ala Juan Uribe, so basically wouldn't this be overpaying for the CF version of Uribe?

Wow, you really tied that one up nicely. You do not play >150 games for 11 straight years, hit >25 homers for the last 10 years, and win 10 Gold Gloves by being the CF version of Juan Uribe. If you have the perception that Jones' defense has slipped, I would mention that The Fielding Bible named him the "Comeback Defensive Player of the Year". Coming off his worst year ever, Jones IS a risk. Some question his bat speed and his pitch selection has always been suspect (>100 strikeouts for 11 straight years). He may not be the right fit for the White Sox, but don't fool yourself by comparing Andruw Jones with Juan Uribe. Andruw Jones would play excellent defense, hit about 35 HR's, and strikeout at least 125 times next year playing in Cellular Field. If that can be had for a 3-4 deal at $14 M per, I say go get him.

dickallen15
11-24-2007, 08:51 AM
Wow, you really tied that one up nicely. You do not play >150 games for 11 straight years, hit >25 homers for the last 10 years, and win 10 Gold Gloves by being the CF version of Juan Uribe. If you have the perception that Jones' defense has slipped, I would mention that The Fielding Bible named him the "Comeback Defensive Player of the Year". Coming off his worst year ever, Jones IS a risk. Some question his bat speed and his pitch selection has always been suspect (>100 strikeouts for 11 straight years). He may not be the right fit for the White Sox, but don't fool yourself by comparing Andruw Jones with Juan Uribe. Andruw Jones would play excellent defense, hit about 35 HR's, and strikeout at least 125 times next year playing in Cellular Field. If that can be had for a 3-4 deal at $14 M per, I say go get him.
And you are also paying him a lot more than Uribe. What I was trying to say is everything the board hates Uribe for, questionable attitude, weight issues, strikeouts, and low OBP can be also applied to Jones(his 2007 OBP at least). Plus another attribute that makes this board not like a player is being represented by Scott Boras. Jones has that covered as well. Its going to take a long term committment and a lot of money to get this guy. If it was my decision, I would look elsewhere. If you're worried about what Torii Hunter will be in 5 years, Jones with a nice long-term contract may look like Herm Schneider in 5 years. It also would make me wonder why Atlanta, a team that gave Tom Glavine $8 million, doesn't even want to discuss a contract with the guy.

russ99
11-24-2007, 08:57 AM
I can think of a few reason why the Sox don't want Andruw.

First off, he's not the type of hitter they need. They have Thome, Konerko and Dye for 3-4-5 or 4-5-6. We don't need another 50-HR potential hitter, unless we trade one of the big 3.

In CF we either need A)a high-on base speedy leadoff hitter or B)a good average, decent RBI hitter for the 3 or 6 spot. Both of which need to play good defense. Rowand's a type-B and guys like Crawford or Crisp are type-A.

Jones doesn't really fit in to either.

Secondly, I doubt Boras will be giving out a cheap 1 or 2 year incentive-laden deal the Sox would require to sign a player with such a questionable 2007 season.

Last, signing Andruw to a Boras-like way over-market salary and multi year deal based on numbers from 2-3 years ago doesn't jive with Jerry Reinsdorf's payroll philosophy, not taking into account the ill will between Williams and Boras.

As for Atlanta, Boras played them like every other team he had a high-profile player turning FA with. He has no interest in having a player re-sign unless it's for an astronomical raise, pretty much more than the player could get on the FA market. For other examples, see A-Rod with the Yankees (I'm glad A-rod saw reason there) and Beltran when the Astros tried to re-sign him.

Mohoney
11-24-2007, 08:59 AM
If we can get him for 3 years, $50 million, it would be perfect. We fill the CF hole without getting roped into a 5 or 6 year commitment.

DumpJerry
11-24-2007, 09:41 AM
"Messy period?" general manager Ken Williams asked testily. "People can say what they want. We have a plan, and there will be 25 guys on the field come April 1 ready to compete for a championship."
Uh Kenny, the season starts March 31st.

Hitmen77
11-24-2007, 10:07 AM
:borass:

What terrible 2007? The bidding for my truly awe inspiring client starts at 10 years at $20M per. Please don't waste my time with anything less.

Yep. Jones is a Boras client, so I think there is just about no chance of him signing with the Sox. Whether we think he'll have a great season next year or not or whether he think he's our best option is irrelevant - he ain't coming to the Sox and I'm not going to waste my time thinking about this non-possibility.

Yesterday's Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) had an interesting quote by KW.

I assume KW is going to get one expensive (or kind of expensive) guy in the outfield, either LF or CF. Now if KW is being literal about this you would assume Hunter was Plan 1, maybe Miguel Cabrera would be 1A and Rowand 1B?
He says he's on 1B right now, but also says they will only get one outfielder if they get the right guy. I hope that doesn't mean they would get Rowand and end it with him and Owens in the outfield.

Obviously, KW could mean anything here. That's up to discussion, but that's why WSI is here anyway.
What does everyone else think?

I'm intrigued by what KW means when they say " Does that include getting two outfielders or one? "If we get the right guy, just one," Williams said.

What right guy would only mean them getting one OF? How does getting a CF affect their need at LF?

Hitmen77
11-24-2007, 10:10 AM
I pray to god Rowand isn't even plan "J". Hopefully he is somewhere in between plan "W" and "Z".

GMAB. You really hope that Rowand is plan "W" for CF? If so, please list out 20 CFs who would be better for the Sox in 2008 than Aaron Rowand.

slavko
11-24-2007, 10:12 AM
Chances of guys choosing to come back to the clubs that have traded them away when they reach free agency. Slim and none and I just saw Slim walk out the door. Often talked about, seldom happens.

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:16 AM
Just pure speculation on my part, but if KW was zeroing in on Rowand, I would suspect we would be hearing something by now. If Hunter was Plan A and Rowand was Plan B, I would think KW would really step it up after losing out on Hunter. If KW really wanted Rowand and made him a reasonable offer ($12 million per year), Aaron may be tempted to take it to come back. It's good money and the Sox likely have a sentimental pull for Aaron. Conclusion -- if Rowand isn't signed within the next few days, KW is probably looking elsewhere.

DickAllen72
11-24-2007, 10:18 AM
I'm intrigued by what KW means when they say " Does that include getting two outfielders or one? "If we get the right guy, just one," Williams said.

What right guy would only mean them getting one OF? How does getting a CF affect their need at LF?
My guess is that if the Sox somehow got Miguel Cabrera for LF, the Sox would go with Owens in CF. The reasons being that they would still need a leadoff type hitter and CFer and in obtaining Cabrera, they most likely would have traded all their available talent that could have been used for a CFer. And in trying to sign Cabrera to an extension, the Sox wouldn't have much money left to offer a free agent CFer.

Adding Cabrera to the offense allows them to take a chance on an unproven bat like Owens.

The odds of the Sox actually getting Cabrera are almost nil, but that's my take on what KW meant.

sox1970
11-24-2007, 10:24 AM
I'd be happy if Rowand signed with the Sox, but there are other options out there that could work out too.

If Carl Crawford is available, I think he should be a priority for left field. Maybe involve a third team in a trade for Crede.

For center field, I could live with Coco Crisp. And basically they would be paying the same amount for Crawford and Crisp as they would have for Torii Hunter.

Lineup:
Crisp, Cabrera, Crawford, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Pierzynski, Fields, Richar

Good speed. Good defense. The question is are these players available in trades, especially Crawford.

voodoochile
11-24-2007, 10:28 AM
Just pure speculation on my part, but if KW was zeroing in on Rowand, I would suspect we would be hearing something by now. If Hunter was Plan A and Rowand was Plan B, I would think KW would really step it up after losing out on Hunter. If KW really wanted Rowand and made him a reasonable offer ($12 million per year), Aaron may be tempted to take it to come back. It's good money and the Sox likely have a sentimental pull for Aaron. Conclusion -- if Rowand isn't signed within the next few days, KW is probably looking elsewhere.

I don't expect the Sox to make a major run at Rowand for the money he seems to be asking for and may now get with TorIIII upping the market value of CF, but it's only been 3 days since TorIIII signed and one of them was TG, so no news doesn't mean nothing is happening, it merely means that it's a holiday.

DickAllen72
11-24-2007, 10:30 AM
I'd be happy if Rowand signed with the Sox, but there are other options out there that could work out too.

If Carl Crawford is available, I think he should be a priority for left field. Maybe involve a third team in a trade for Crede.

For center field, I could live with Coco Crisp. And basically they would be paying the same amount for Crawford and Crisp as they would have for Torii Hunter.

Lineup:
Crisp, Cabrera, Crawford, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Pierzynski, Fields, Richar

Good speed. Good defense. The question is are these these players available in trades, especially Crawford.
Almost everyone is available in a trade, but the question is, whom did you trade to obtain Crawford and Crisp? I don't see it happening.

The Sox almost have to overpay for a free agent because they don't have that much talent to trade away.

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:33 AM
So much has been written about Andrew Jones' awful offensive season last year. I'll admit it has scared me off, too. However, in looking at his numbers, he also had a really bad season back in 2001 that was sandwiched between typically good seasons. Here was his line in 2001:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.251 .312 .461 .773

Here's his 2007 numbers:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.222 .311 .413 .724

After 2001, he came back strong. Unless there's something physically wrong with him (not just weight), it's very possible that his 2007, like his 2001, was some kind of a seasonal anomaly.

sox1970
11-24-2007, 10:36 AM
Almost everyone is available in a trade, but the question is, whom did you trade to obtain Crawford and Crisp? I don't see it happening.

The Sox almost have to overpay for a free agent because they don't have that much talent to trade away.

For Crawford, if they were to trade straight up, I could see Danks and a couple younger players---maybe de los Santos, Getz, Lucy.

For Crisp, I don't think Boston will ask for a ton. They know they have to trade him because Ellsbury is ready. They'd probably take Nick Masset and Heath Phillips.

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 10:39 AM
Almost everyone is available in a trade, but the question is, whom did you trade to obtain Crawford and Crisp? I don't see it happening.

The Sox almost have to overpay for a free agent because they don't have that much talent to trade away.

Yep, 3 ways to improve:
1) overpay for Fa's
2) have major league ready players in the minors
3) trades

Kenny is between the rock and the hard place. No one in the minors, very few quality players to trade without hurting the team.
This leaves option 1, it all depends on JR's salary budget.

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:40 AM
I don't expect the Sox to make a major run at Rowand for the money he seems to be asking for and may now get with TorIIII upping the market value of CF, but it's only been 3 days since TorIIII signed and one of them was TG, so no news doesn't mean nothing is happening, it merely means that it's a holiday.
I don't disagree that not much time has gone by. I guess I'm really suggesting that if KW was really going after Aaron aggressively, I would expect to hear something by, say, next Wednesday. I know that's a somewhat arbitrary time-frame, but I'm just thinking that if KW really wanted to fill the centerfield hole through free agency and Aaron was the primary contingency plan, he would pull the trigger fairly soon. I thought I read somewhere that, even while talking with Hunter, the Sox had a conversation or two with Aaron. This wouldn't be surprising and wouldn't be limited to just Rowand. I think teams generally try and communicate at some level with any potential free agent target once the off-season begins.

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 10:42 AM
For Crawford, if they were to trade straight up, I could see Danks and a couple younger players---maybe de los Santos, Getz, Lucy.

For Crisp, I don't think Boston will ask for a ton. They know they have to trade him because Ellsbury is ready. They'd probably take Nick Masset and Heath Phillips.


When other GM's know you need a player, in this case a CF,their asking price goes up.

SBSoxFan
11-24-2007, 10:44 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

It says Williams had two plans before considering any of this moves to be backup plans.

First off, regarding the article, how did not getting Hunter leave the Sox "with no clear starting center fielder or left fielder." No wonder the Angles offered $90M since Hunter can play two positions. :rolleyes:

Second, I didn't know Uribe was "highly paid."

Depends on what the contract is. I think Andruw Jones is a sleeping giant; if we can cash in on that terrible 2007, I'd be all for it.

Chances are that won't happen, though.

I agree about the sleeping giant part. It is a huge risk. If he stinks again who do you have in CF for the short term? If he's awesome he's gonna leave, and, again, who is in CF?

Yesterday's Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) had an interesting quote by KW.

I assume KW is going to get one expensive (or kind of expensive) guy in the outfield, either LF or CF. Now if KW is being literal about this you would assume Hunter was Plan 1, maybe Miguel Cabrera would be 1A and Rowand 1B?
He says he's on 1B right now, but also says they will only get one outfielder if they get the right guy. I hope that doesn't mean they would get Rowand and end it with him and Owens in the outfield.

Obviously, KW could mean anything here. That's up to discussion, but that's why WSI is here anyway.
What does everyone else think?

I think you're right on. Maybe Jones was 1A? Regardless, maybe implementing plan 1 or 1A meant Owens leading off? Now KW is at 1B then he is probably looking for a more established outfielder who can lead off.

kobo
11-24-2007, 10:45 AM
I think this is the most interesting quote of all from Kenny, and it is at the very end of the article:

While not commenting on Linebrink, Williams did say that "we're really right on track to get the guy we targeted from Day 1 of [the off-season] and the year before."

So who is the player from last year and day 1 of this off-season that they are trying to acquire? Could this be Crawford?

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:46 AM
Yep, 3 ways to improve:
1) overpay for Fa's
2) have major league ready players in the minors
3) trades

Kenny is between the rock and the hard place. No one in the minors, very few quality players to trade without hurting the team.
This leaves option 1, it all depends on JR's salary budget.
We know that the money they were going to give Hunter is available. We also know that they cleared out Pods' salary. It looks like the money they saved in the Cabrera deal is going to Linebrink. There is a better than even chance the team will trade Crede, clearing all or some of his salary off the books. There's a decent chance that Uribe and all or part of his salary will be cleared out as well. The team should be in a pretty good position financially. The key question is over how many players the money is going to be allocated.

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 10:49 AM
I don't disagree that not much time has gone by. I guess I'm really suggesting that if KW was really going after Aaron aggressively, I would expect to hear something by, say, next Wednesday. I know that's a somewhat arbitrary time-frame, but I'm just thinking that if KW really wanted to fill the centerfield hole through free agency and Aaron was the primary contingency plan, he would pull the trigger fairly soon. I thought I read somewhere that, even while talking with Hunter, the Sox had a conversation or two with Aaron. This wouldn't be surprising and wouldn't be limited to just Rowand. I think teams generally try and communicate at some level with any potential free agent target once the off-season begins.

It's not KW who pulls the trigger, it's Rowand.
Once Rowand receives an offer he might have his agent ask other possible interested teams to increase their offer.

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:52 AM
I think this is the most interesting quote of all from Kenny, and it is at the very end of the article:



So who is the player from last year and day 1 of this off-season that they are trying to acquire? Could this be Crawford?
I'd love for the Sox to acquire Crawford, but he seems to be Captain Ahab's white whale. Teams are always interested in getting him, but he continues to patrol left in Tampa. You would think that Tampa would trade him. If they ever get competitive in the A.L. East, it's not going to be during a time when Crawford's there. If someone offers them a decent package of players, they should seriously consider taking it.

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 10:56 AM
We know that the money they were going to give Hunter is available. We also know that they cleared out Pods' salary. It looks like the money they saved in the Cabrera deal is going to Linebrink. There is a better than even chance the team will trade Crede, clearing all or some of his salary off the books. There's a decent chance that Uribe and all or part of his salary will be cleared out as well. The team should be in a pretty good position financially. The key question is over how many players the money is going to be allocated.


I don't disagree, your last sentence is correct but, to me the key question is, How far can KW go when bidding against another team for fa's.

infohawk
11-24-2007, 10:56 AM
It's not KW who pulls the trigger, it's Rowand.
Once Rowand receives an offer he might have his agent ask other possible interested teams to increase their offer.
True. I will admit that I am making an assumption that if KW were to make a competitive offer, Aaron would lean toward coming back for sentimental reasons. If this fundamental assumption is wrong, then my whole scenario collapses like a house of cards (or the 2007 White Sox). I don't believe KW would vastly overpay for Aaron. Believe me, I know the joke about what "assumption" means!:D:

infohawk
11-24-2007, 11:01 AM
I don't disagree, your last sentence is correct but, to me the key question is, How far can KW go when bidding against another team for fa's.
Probably pretty far if we're talking about getting just one player. That's probably not in the team's best interest, though. If KW really, really had to have Hunter, he probably could have matched or slightly exceeded the Angels offer. That would mean no Linebrink or any other free agent or trade that required the taking on of any salary.

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 11:10 AM
Probably pretty far if we're talking about getting just one player. That's probably not in the team's best interest, though. If KW really, really had to have Hunter, he probably could have matched or slightly exceeded the Angels offer. That would mean no Linebrink or any other free agent or trade that required the taking on of any salary.

We don't really know. Without Crede's or part/all of Uribe's contracts off the books, KW options may be limited.
As far as other free agents go, they will be over paid, it's the norm, if KW doesn't over pay he's out of the poker game.

Madvora
11-24-2007, 11:51 AM
I pray to god Rowand isn't even plan "J". Hopefully he is somewhere in between plan "W" and "Z".
Yeah, how could we survive with a .286 lifetime hitter coming off a career year?

fquaye149
11-24-2007, 12:06 PM
Yeah, how could we survive with a .286 lifetime hitter coming off a career year?


.286 hitter at 15+ million though, potentially...

soxinem1
11-24-2007, 12:06 PM
No way Jones comes here. It's a waste of discussion, even if Rowand does not return here and signs somewhere else first. I think SFG and CHC will make the biggest play for him.

And I don't see Rowand taking a supposed 'hometown discount' to come back here. In fact, I see him wanting to go to a team that will definitely contend, not a team coming off of a 90-loss season. If he does indeed come back here, fine, but I think he's getting five years, $75 million + from someone, and it's not the White Sox.

Rowand making more than Konerko, Dye, Buerhle, Cabrera, and Thome? Doubtful.

So Plan C:

BOS and TAM both have a surplus of OF.

I would set my sights on Rocco Baldelli for CF and Coco Crisp for LF. Good offense, defense, and both can run a bit.

But even that is not the best situation as another issue is the lineup in general. Adding Rowand means that the new LF should be a LH hitter, as Thome and AJ are the only established lefty hitters in the line up.

DickAllen72
11-24-2007, 12:09 PM
I think this is the most interesting quote of all from Kenny, and it is at the very end of the article:



So who is the player from last year and day 1 of this off-season that they are trying to acquire? Could this be Crawford?
The context was the bullpen. He was talking about Linebrink while not mentioning him by name since he hasn't officially been signed yet.

TomBradley72
11-24-2007, 12:22 PM
Yep, 3 ways to improve:
1) overpay for Fa's
2) have major league ready players in the minors
3) trades

Kenny is between the rock and the hard place. No one in the minors, very few quality players to trade without hurting the team.
This leaves option 1, it all depends on JR's salary budget.

After being GM for 6 years and previously head of player development...KW owns responsiblity for #2 and #3. With three consecutive years of record attendance...#1 is the only way to go. If they don't...the window of opportunity on this group of veterans will close.

TheCommander
11-24-2007, 01:13 PM
I'm intrigued by what KW means when they say " Does that include getting two outfielders or one? "If we get the right guy, just one," Williams said.

What right guy would only mean them getting one OF? How does getting a CF affect their need at LF?

With the routes Rowand runs,he can cover both LF and CF. :redneck


Just pure speculation on my part, but if KW was zeroing in on Rowand, I would suspect we would be hearing something by now.

Kinda like we heard about the Angels zeroing in on Hunter before he was signed?:wink:

oeo
11-24-2007, 01:19 PM
Its amazing to me how many people want Jones. He's had some attitude problems in the past, has had weight issues in the past, strikes out a ton, and with Boras as his agent, will never be a bargain. I did read where he tried to get in decent shape for 2007, his contract year. Wouldn't that be a red flag? I know baseball executives are concerned with his body and his tendency to pack on the pounds, ala Juan Uribe, so basically wouldn't this be overpaying for the CF version of Uribe?

Are you kidding me? When he's not playing like ****, he's one of the best centerfielders in the game. Definitely a better option than Hunter when they're both playing at their best.

ViPeRx007
11-24-2007, 01:23 PM
I'm hoping it's this:

1: Hunter
1A: Crawford
1B: Cabrera
B: Jones
C: Rowand
D-P: Another RP
Q-Z: Another SP
Z x 60: Crisp

champagne030
11-24-2007, 01:26 PM
I can think of a few reason why the Sox don't want Andruw.

First off, he's not the type of hitter they need. They have Thome, Konerko and Dye for 3-4-5 or 4-5-6. We don't need another 50-HR potential hitter, unless we trade one of the big 3.

In CF we either need A)a high-on base speedy leadoff hitter or B)a good average, decent RBI hitter for the 3 or 6 spot. Both of which need to play good defense. Rowand's a type-B and guys like Crawford or Crisp are type-A.

Jones doesn't really fit in to either.

Secondly, I doubt Boras will be giving out a cheap 1 or 2 year incentive-laden deal the Sox would require to sign a player with such a questionable 2007 season.

Last, signing Andruw to a Boras-like way over-market salary and multi year deal based on numbers from 2-3 years ago doesn't jive with Jerry Reinsdorf's payroll philosophy, not taking into account the ill will between Williams and Boras.

As for Atlanta, Boras played them like every other team he had a high-profile player turning FA with. He has no interest in having a player re-sign unless it's for an astronomical raise, pretty much more than the player could get on the FA market. For other examples, see A-Rod with the Yankees (I'm glad A-rod saw reason there) and Beltran when the Astros tried to re-sign him.

I'd be happy if Rowand signed with the Sox, but there are other options out there that could work out too.

If Carl Crawford is available, I think he should be a priority for left field. Maybe involve a third team in a trade for Crede.

For center field, I could live with Coco Crisp. And basically they would be paying the same amount for Crawford and Crisp as they would have for Torii Hunter.

Lineup:
Crisp, Cabrera, Crawford, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Pierzynski, Fields, Richar

Good speed. Good defense. The question is are these players available in trades, especially Crawford.

Crisp sucks. I rather go with Owens if we choose to go with a rosin bag.

getonbckthr
11-24-2007, 01:43 PM
No way Jones comes here. It's a waste of discussion, even if Rowand does not return here and signs somewhere else first. I think SFG and CHC will make the biggest play for him.

And I don't see Rowand taking a supposed 'hometown discount' to come back here. In fact, I see him wanting to go to a team that will definitely contend, not a team coming off of a 90-loss season. If he does indeed come back here, fine, but I think he's getting five years, $75 million + from someone, and it's not the White Sox.

Rowand making more than Konerko, Dye, Buerhle, Cabrera, and Thome? Doubtful.

So Plan C:

BOS and TAM both have a surplus of OF.

I would set my sights on Rocco Baldelli for CF and Coco Crisp for LF. Good offense, defense, and both can run a bit.

But even that is not the best situation as another issue is the lineup in general. Adding Rowand means that the new LF should be a LH hitter, as Thome and AJ are the only established lefty hitters in the line up.
And we will need an outfielder by May 1st.

roadrunner
11-24-2007, 02:43 PM
I found the following list interesting: A Jones most similar batters through age 30


Frank Robinson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/robinfr02.shtml) (857) *
Eddie Mathews (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/matheed01.shtml) (850) *
Johnny Bench (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/benchjo01.shtml) (849) *
Ron Santo (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santoro01.shtml) (840)
Al Kaline (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kalinal01.shtml) (836) *
Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml) (832)
Ken Griffey (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/griffke02.shtml) (832)
Ruben Sierra (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sierrru01.shtml) (829)
Juan Gonzalez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gonzaju03.shtml) (816)
Duke Snider (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/snidedu01.shtml) (815)

getonbckthr
11-24-2007, 03:15 PM
I found the following list interesting: A Jones most similar batters through age 30


Frank Robinson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/robinfr02.shtml) (857) *
Eddie Mathews (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/matheed01.shtml) (850) *
Johnny Bench (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/benchjo01.shtml) (849) *
Ron Santo (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santoro01.shtml) (840)
Al Kaline (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kalinal01.shtml) (836) *
Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml) (832)
Ken Griffey (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/griffke02.shtml) (832)
Ruben Sierra (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sierrru01.shtml) (829)
Juan Gonzalez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gonzaju03.shtml) (816)
Duke Snider (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/snidedu01.shtml) (815)
If you wanna laugh look at Rowands.

Mohoney
11-24-2007, 03:27 PM
We don't really know. Without Crede's or part/all of Uribe's contracts off the books, KW options may be limited.
As far as other free agents go, they will be over paid, it's the norm, if KW doesn't over pay he's out of the poker game.

If free agents getting "overpaid" is the norm, then after a while, isn't it just getting "paid"?

Paulwny
11-24-2007, 03:32 PM
If free agents getting "overpaid" is the norm, then after a while, isn't it just getting "paid"?

I don't know, is it?

santo=dorf
11-24-2007, 04:01 PM
Andruw has some intriguing road numbers:

Road 2007: .247/.315/.429
Home 2007: .196/.307/.395
Road 2006: .264/.364/.561
Home 2006: .260/.362/.502

I'd be down with Andruw if he dumps Boras.

Soxfest
11-24-2007, 04:10 PM
Jones will not happen but Rowand is NOT the answer.

TheVulture
11-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Jones'd probably hit 45+ HR a year playing at the Cell, while playing at least well above average CF. And this would probably be the best you'd ever hope to sign him for coming off the year he had. Plug him right in at clean up and trade a bat for some pitching. You'd have to be nuts not to want him over Rowand at 13-15 mil a year. And I'd be glad if the sox signed Rowand.

Daver
11-24-2007, 04:22 PM
Jones will not happen but Rowand is NOT the answer.

The Rowand fan club love the thought of having a left fielder playing CF.

santo=dorf
11-24-2007, 04:26 PM
The Rowand fan club love the thought of having a left fielder playing CF.
cue the "it worked in 2005" post in 3....2....1....

thomas35forever
11-24-2007, 04:32 PM
I'd be happy with either player. Jones might be a better hitter, but I think he'd probably cost more money. KW is more likely to go after Aaron.

Jurr
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
I'd still rather spend premier money on pitching. Having a murderer's row won't win you a title. Too bad the arms are terribly scarce.

getonbckthr
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
I found the following list interesting: A Jones most similar batters through age 30


Frank Robinson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/robinfr02.shtml) (857) *
Eddie Mathews (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/matheed01.shtml) (850) *
Johnny Bench (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/benchjo01.shtml) (849) *
Ron Santo (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santoro01.shtml) (840)
Al Kaline (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kalinal01.shtml) (836) *
Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml) (832)
Ken Griffey (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/griffke02.shtml) (832)
Ruben Sierra (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sierrru01.shtml) (829)
Juan Gonzalez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gonzaju03.shtml) (816)
Duke Snider (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/snidedu01.shtml) (815)
Here's Aaron's:
Similar Batters through Age 29

Compare Stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=rowanaa01:Aaron+Rowand&st=age&compage=29&age=29)

Felipe Alou (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aloufe01.shtml) (967)
Bernard Gilkey (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilkebe01.shtml) (957)
Troy O'Leary (http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/o'leatr01.shtml) (956)
Jacque Jones (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jonesja05.shtml) (955)
Shea Hillenbrand (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hillesh02.shtml) (955)
Ivan Calderon (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/caldeiv01.shtml) (946)
Carl Everett (http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/evereca01.shtml) (943)
Rip Repulski (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/repulri01.shtml) (939)
Tony Gonzalez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gonzato01.shtml) (936)
Jeffrey Hammonds (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hammoje01.shtml) (936For 13-15 million, NO THANK YOU!!!!!!

Gosox1917
11-24-2007, 05:33 PM
cue the "it worked in 2005" post in 3....2....1....

It worked in 2005.

You're welcome!:D::D::D:

rowand33
11-24-2007, 05:37 PM
I hope that 1A is Crawford and 1B is Rowand.

I won't be upset if we sign Andruw Jones, but I'm very scared of the guy.

Do we intend to put Crawford in CF if we acquire him? I'm guessing yes.

And what do we give up for him? Uribe, Gio, maybe Fields?, maybe Danks?

If we get Crawford, I'm guessing that this will be our lineup:

Crawford CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Fields LF
Crede 3B
AJ C
Richar 2B

The outfield defense would be atrocious.

On the subject of Rowand,

As my screen name indicates, I'm a Rowand fan. However, I think the Sox should pursue the best option, which I don't feel is Aaron.

But I fail to see how he is regarded as a bad option by so many on this board.

Rotoworld had an interesting blurb today that looks at the Rowand issue in the correct light:


The White Sox are believed to have moved on to free agent Aaron Rowand after losing out on Torii Hunter.

Says the Chicago Tribune, Rowand "isn't nearly as dominating as Hunter could be." He was merely the better hitter last year, and he has the superior career OPS. He's also a fellow Gold Glover, for what that's worth, and he's the younger player by two years. We can't be sure how he treats women, but he's about as "dominating" as Hunter when he's on the field. It's going to take at least $10 million and probably $12 million-$13 million per season to sign him.
Source: Chicago Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ca-071123sox,1,909722.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)
Related: White Sox (http://rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=CWS)

Calling Rowand a "plan W" or saying he is a bad defensive CF is ridiculous.

He isn't the best defensive CF (Anderson is better, IMO), but he's far from a liability out there.

He's a good hitter that plays an above average CF and is a great clubhouse guy. I wanted Hunter more. I'd rather have Crawford. But if Rowand is who we get, I'll be happy. The fact that some of you act like it would make the white sox a worse team is ridiculous.

He's overpriced, but who isn't in the free agent market? Rowand will put up comparable numbers to Hunter next year, and everybody was more than ready to pay Torii.

If you don't develop your own players well, you have to overpay for guys that have career years.

Just be happy that Rowand is on the market this year, and the Sox won't end up stuck with a guy like Gary Matthews, Jr.

Daver
11-24-2007, 05:50 PM
He's a good hitter that plays an above average CF




He plays a very average CF. When part of your resume' is running into to walls because you have no idea where you are on the field, you have no business being considered above average.

Tragg
11-24-2007, 08:19 PM
I thought I read where Williams said that if he gets the plan "1B" player, he'll only need one outfielder. To me, that means the player is such an offensive force we can go with a weak hitter in either CF or LF and that player would be able to hit leadoff as well. I'm not sure who that could be though. Perhaps a trade. Rowand doesn't hit that well. Jones - maybe.

I also read where Boston wants a setup man or a top C or infield prospect for Crisp. That's ridiculous. He should be worth an Iguchiish price.

The problem with Rowand is that if he isn't a CF, then his offense in his norm season isn't really good enough for LF.

FarWestChicago
11-24-2007, 09:36 PM
I'd be down with Andruw if he dumps Boras.I agree. But, I doubt we could be that lucky.

Brian26
11-24-2007, 11:24 PM
He should be worth an Iguchiish price.

:thumbsup: Iguchiish > Toriiish

The problem with Rowand is that if he isn't a CF, then his offense in his norm season isn't really good enough for LF.

Correct. His offense is pedestrian at best for a corner outfielder. You could live with Pods' mediocre defense and average OPS because of his stolen base threat in '05 and the first half of '06. Rowand brings very little to the table as a LF.

Hitmen77
11-25-2007, 10:30 PM
I just think that, like it or not, Andruw Jones is not option the Sox are considering because he is a Boras client. That said, I think the Sox are looking at Rowand, Cameron, or trading for someone like Crisp.

Trav
11-25-2007, 10:48 PM
The Rowand fan club love the thought of having a left fielder playing CF.

Crisp played left in Cleveland in 2005 and the Bosox traded for him to be their CF. Would you put him in the same boat as Rowand defensively?

schmitty9800
11-26-2007, 04:40 AM
I don't want Jones at all. We had the lowest OBP and AVG in the majors last year, and putting a 130 K guy into our lineup at $15 million a year is not the way to change that.

soxfanatlanta
11-26-2007, 07:40 AM
I don't want Jones at all. We had the lowest OBP and AVG in the majors last year, and putting a 130 K guy into our lineup at $15 million a year is not the way to change that.

+1

We do not need another free swinger trying to crush the ball every time he trots out to the plate. He is a great defensive CF who had one excellent season with the bat. Move along.

AZChiSoxFan
11-26-2007, 02:07 PM
He is a great defensive CF who had one excellent season with the bat. Move along.

:?:

Over the last 10 years, Jones has averaged 34 homers and over 100 RBI per season.

That appears to me to be just a bit more than one excellent season with the bat.

soxfanatlanta
11-26-2007, 02:31 PM
That appears to me to be just a bit more than one excellent season with the bat.

Point taken.

Jones has usually come to bat with runners on base; something that may not happen unless we get a decent lead off hitter. He cannot hit the off speed stuff to save his life. We already have the #4 (PK), #5 (JD) spots filled. Add the 100+ strike outs, and what do you have? CorpseBall '08 Yes, he will wow you with his glove/arm on occasion. But at $15 million per year? No thanks.

Daver
11-26-2007, 02:33 PM
Crisp played left in Cleveland in 2005 and the Bosox traded for him to be their CF. Would you put him in the same boat as Rowand defensively?

At least Crisp doesn't have a knack of stubbing his face on the outfield wall.

voodoochile
11-26-2007, 02:41 PM
Point taken.

Jones has usually come to bat with runners on base; something that may not happen unless we get a decent lead off hitter. He cannot hit the off speed stuff to save his life. We already have the #4 (PK), #5 (JD) spots filled. Add the 100+ strike outs, and what do you have? CorpseBall '08 Yes, he will wow you with his glove/arm on occasion. But at $15 million per year? No thanks.

If that were for 2 years with an option for a 3rd or even 3 years with an option for a 4th, I'd do it in a heart beat, but it has to fit in with the current window in terms of longevity and dollars.

Again, it's not Jones' numbers, it's his numbers compared to other CF. He's one of the most productive offensive CF in the game if not the best. He's got a couple of good years left in him for sure, IMO.

soxfanatlanta
11-26-2007, 02:59 PM
If that were for 2 years with an option for a 3rd or even 3 years with an option for a 4th, I'd do it in a heart beat, but it has to fit in with the current window in terms of longevity and dollars.

You know he will be asking for a longer contract than that.

voodoochile
11-26-2007, 03:03 PM
You know he will be asking for a longer contract than that.

Sure and I'm asking for the winning lotto numbers for tonight's drawing, doesn't mean either of us is going to get it...