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View Full Version : So who does Kenny go after now.


JermaineDye05
11-22-2007, 02:34 AM
Well after this disappointment who does Kenny go after for center field?

Domeshot17
11-22-2007, 02:39 AM
Well it will start with

"In this market you can not simply just spend money to get somebody. We have a responsibility to not be irresponsible with our money and we felt we made the best run we could. You can not just be held hostage by current market conditions which we expect will drastically drop in the near future as ownes continue to pocket billions. But do not worry, we have a commitment to winning, and I know no one ever likes the move I make, but at the end the offseason I hope people will see why we did what we did"

I believe thats been the speech since 2006 right.

Then comes the no working with Boras speach when Andruw signs somewhere else

Thennnnn comes the choice to overpay for Rowand or not

Just so sick of us never using FA to do much. Linebrink is nice, but if hes the big fish Kenny was talking about, that Guppie won't be getting us back to the playoffs

(end rant)

munchman33
11-22-2007, 02:57 AM
Where is the Corey Patterson option? As I've been saying for the last two weeks, he's who we'll be left with.

oeo
11-22-2007, 03:18 AM
Well it will start with

"In this market you can not simply just spend money to get somebody. We have a responsibility to not be irresponsible with our money and we felt we made the best run we could. You can not just be held hostage by current market conditions which we expect will drastically drop in the near future as ownes continue to pocket billions. But do not worry, we have a commitment to winning, and I know no one ever likes the move I make, but at the end the offseason I hope people will see why we did what we did"

I believe thats been the speech since 2006 right.

Then comes the no working with Boras speach when Andruw signs somewhere else

Thennnnn comes the choice to overpay for Rowand or not

Just so sick of us never using FA to do much. Linebrink is nice, but if hes the big fish Kenny was talking about, that Guppie won't be getting us back to the playoffs

(end rant)

No offense, but your 'rants' ****ing suck. I've seen this same 'rant' about 5 times in the last 20 minutes from you. Oh, our team sucks, so that must be Kenny not doing his job correctly.

THE ANGELS ARE BETTER THAN US EVERYWHERE. Face it and stop whining about it.

Chrisaway
11-22-2007, 04:48 AM
Well.......GO GET AARON BACK KENNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://i14.tinypic.com/6kz44eh.jpg

ndgt10
11-22-2007, 05:55 AM
Can't wait for Coco Crisp patrolling left field and Jerry Owens in center field opening day. :rolleyes:

CLR01
11-22-2007, 07:20 AM
Kenny needs to overpay for Rowand. Rowand=Automatic World Series.

twinsuck1
11-22-2007, 08:22 AM
Why not Andruw Jones?

Sockinchisox
11-22-2007, 08:25 AM
Why not Andruw Jones?

Scott Boras.

Although I'd love to have Kenny surprise us all and from out of the blue we sign Jones to a 2 or 3 yr contract at 11-13 mil per with lots of incentives.

CLR01
11-22-2007, 08:26 AM
Why not Andruw Jones?

Because Aaron Rowand will bring us more pie. Andruw Jones might eat the pie.

twinsuck1
11-22-2007, 08:34 AM
You beleive Rowand Is a better outfielder then Jones? Yes Jones had a down year last year but he Isd a freakin' 10 time Gold Glover with Major Pop! Rowand will never have another year like he did last year.

DaveIsHere
11-22-2007, 08:52 AM
You beleive Rowand Is a better outfielder then Jones? Yes Jones had a down year last year but he Isd a freakin' 10 time Gold Glover with Major Pop! Rowand will never have another year like he did last year.

Not to be a "I love Rowand" guy, but his stats are not too shabby the past few years. I just do not understand why a lot of peple are so down on him. We finally had a guy that we developed into a good player that is back on the market and everyone poo-poos him. We all saw the numbers compared to Tori, but everyone still denies that he may be a pretty damn good option.

Whats the story?

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 09:12 AM
I have no hate for Aaron Rowand... he is a nice player who helped the Sox win a championship... but a nice player is all he really is... at the price he is demanding I would pass and invest the money to address a number of needs... that was the formula that worked for the Sox in 2005 and I don't see why it can't work again...

If we were asking for $5-7 million per year I would be all for it but $12 - $15 million per year?? I vote to pass on Rowand and invest the money elsewhere...

KyWhiSoxFan
11-22-2007, 09:17 AM
I think the Sox should go after a guy like Willits. The Angels need to win now and have excess talent in the outfield. They still need a first baseman. Hunter can't provide the protection they really need for Vlad. So the Sox trade them Konerko for Willits and Erwin Santana.

Madvora
11-22-2007, 09:19 AM
It seems like a lot of people are using Rowand's success in 2007 as an excuse that he won't be good again.
How pessimistic can you get?

The guy had a great year last year. This isn't the bizarro world. Doesn't it make sense to go after a guy that's playing well?

CLR01
11-22-2007, 09:28 AM
Not to be a "I love Rowand" guy, but his stats are not too shabby the past few years. I just do not understand why a lot of peple are so down on him. We finally had a guy that we developed into a good player that is back on the market and everyone poo-poos him. We all saw the numbers compared to Tori, but everyone still denies that he may be a pretty damn good option.

Whats the story?

Which few years other than '07? He stats sucked in '06 and they weren't all that impressive in '05, for a guy that could pull $10-15 million a year. But he runs into walls...

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Which few years other than '07? He stats sucked in '06 and they weren't all that impressive in '05, for a guy that could pull $10-15 million a year. But he runs into walls...

Agreed... looking at his numbers I just don't see how you can justify $15 million a year for him... it would be great if he could duplicate his production from 2007 but even then is that worth $15 million a year??? He has never hit more than 30 HRs, never had more than 100 RBIs in a season and never stolen more then 20 bases in a year...

And 2007 was arguably NOT his best year... that probably was (pound for pound) 2004 when he batted .310 with 24 HRs, 69 RBIs, 17 SBs and .361 OBP in under 500 ABs... His 27 HRs and 89 RBIs in 2007 were accomplished with over 600 ABs...

DumpJerry
11-22-2007, 09:42 AM
Lance Johnson is looking better and better.......

DSpivack
11-22-2007, 09:43 AM
Lance Johnson is looking better and better.......

I've heard Slow Swing himself is a candidate.

nsolo
11-22-2007, 09:45 AM
Since Hunter has chosen the Angels, who can we expect and/or want to see in centerfield in "08?

Let the posting begin.

Frater Perdurabo
11-22-2007, 09:48 AM
So the Sox trade them Konerko for Willits and Erwin Santana.

Yes. I just looked at Willits' line. He would fill the leadoff hole beautifully: Great speed and OBP.

With Vlad, Hunter and GMJ, their outfield is full. There's no room for him with the Angles now. But you're right; they have no one to protect Vlad. Kotchman is nice, but not what they need. They are desperate for power. PK fills the void for them.

Coop could improve Santana. For 08, he could start or be the long reliever.

Fields plays 1B. He will club 35 HRs in 2008. Keep Crede for his defense.

Fields, Willits and Santana are extremely cheap, providing flexibility to sign Rowand and a starting pitcher and bullpen help.

Here's the lineup:

Willits, Cabrera, Thome, Dye, Fields, Rowand, AJ, Crede, Richar

Good speed (possible SB and/or 1B to 3B on a single) at 1, 2, 5, 6, and 9
Decent power at 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8
Decent batting averages at 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7
Good OBP at 1, 2, 3 and 6

This is a lineup with no holes.

Domeshot17
11-22-2007, 10:00 AM
at 18 mil a year ignore my rant because I was wrong

thats just too much for Hunter

14 a year is also too much for Rowand, but I fear thats what he is lookin at now.

Jjav829
11-22-2007, 10:12 AM
He'll continue to go after his biggest man crush, Aaron Rowand. The only question is how high is Kenny willing to go to land Rowand.

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 10:14 AM
As much as I was disappointed that the Sox weren't able to sign a "big time" free agent I am now wondering if it wasn't a blessing in disguise. Lets face it, if they had signed Hunter we would be looking at a fairly old and expensive team in a few years. And without a solid farm system (which they don't have at the moment) its scary to think what they might have turned into.

More than anything I would like to see the Sox make some significant investments in their farm system. Not just signing their top draft picks but also spending more for top notch scouts, signing FAs from Latin America etc. The Angels are in a good position now because they have a really solid farm system that can supplement the older FAs that they bring in. Same with the Red Sox. That is the model I would like to pursue. Not the big name FA just for the sake of doing it. That seems way to Oriole to me.

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 10:15 AM
He'll continue to go after his biggest man crush, Aaron Rowand. The only question is how high is Kenny willing to go to land Rowand.

Is there a 12 step program that we can enroll KW in before he does something stupid?

soxfanreggie
11-22-2007, 10:17 AM
I would hope Aaron. However, you have to think he's looking at Andruw Jones and Mike Cameron (even though I think he has a 25 game suspension to start the season).

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 10:19 AM
Jones at the right price or a trade.... Rowand is way too expensive at this point for the production he will provide... KW needs to get back to being creative...

KyWhiSoxFan
11-22-2007, 10:21 AM
If you free up the money from Konerko and get Willits and Santana in return from the Angels, you can afford Rowand, even if you have to overpay. Willits, Santana, and Rowand are greater than Konerko. I'm not a big Rowand fan, but think his strength is in the clubhouse more than the field.

redsand22
11-22-2007, 10:22 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing Jones out there. He should be cheaper than Rowand and hopefully he had a down year last year.

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 10:29 AM
Is anyone else wondering whether the lack of interest (apparently league wide) in Jones has something to do with his potential inclusion in the Mitchell Report? I apologize if this has been mentioned before... but I was just wondering why there is apparently so little interest in this guy...

infohawk
11-22-2007, 10:32 AM
Agreed... looking at his numbers I just don't see how you can justify $15 million a year for him... it would be great if he could duplicate his production from 2007 but even then is that worth $15 million a year??? He has never hit more than 30 HRs, never had more than 100 RBIs in a season and never stolen more then 20 bases in a year...

And 2007 was arguably NOT his best year... that probably was (pound for pound) 2004 when he batted .310 with 24 HRs, 69 RBIs, 17 SBs and .361 OBP in under 500 ABs... His 27 HRs and 89 RBIs in 2007 were accomplished with over 600 ABs...
At some point the issue becomes "who's the best available and obtainable talent left?" That may very well be Rowand. Actually, his numbers are in many ways comparable, even better in some respects, than Hunter's. If the market is overvaluing Rowand's statistical accomplishments, it is what it is. We can pass on him, but we may end up paying the "right" amount for a guy who doesn't bring as much to the table as Rowand. At some point, we need to ask ourselves which center fielder left on the market gives the Sox the best chance to win in '08. Maybe it's Aaron, maybe its not.

Edit: I'll add that I personally think it's time to bring Aaron home.

Lillian
11-22-2007, 10:39 AM
Yes. I just looked at Willits' line. He would fill the leadoff hole beautifully: Great speed and OBP.

With Vlad, Hunter and GMJ, their outfield is full. There's no room for him with the Angles now. But you're right; they have no one to protect Vlad. Kotchman is nice, but not what they need. They are desperate for power. PK fills the void for them.

Coop could improve Santana. For 08, he could start or be the long reliever.

Fields plays 1B. He will club 35 HRs in 2008. Keep Crede for his defense.

Fields, Willits and Santana are extremely cheap, providing flexibility to sign Rowand and a starting pitcher and bullpen help.

Here's the lineup:

Willits, Cabrera, Thome, Dye, Fields, Rowand, AJ, Crede, Richar

Good speed (possible SB and/or 1B to 3B on a single) at 1, 2, 5, 6, and 9
Decent power at 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8
Decent batting averages at 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7
Good OBP at 1, 2, 3 and 6

This is a lineup with no holes.

That makes perfect sense to me. I suggested much the same idea, some time ago. The Angels have a surplus of starters now that they have added Garland. I just wonder if they would be willing to make this trade. It would be a better way for them to get the protection for Vlad G. than sending all of their young prospects for Miguel G.

DoItForDanPasqua
11-22-2007, 10:45 AM
I don't think anyone is worth the money except Hunter. I would give Owens center and go after some pitching. I would go for Kenshin Kawakami as a starter and Jeremy Affeldt to set up Jenks.

DaveIsHere
11-22-2007, 10:58 AM
I don't think anyone is worth the money except Hunter. I would give Owens center and go after some pitching. I would go for Kenshin Kawakami as a starter and Jeremy Affeldt to set up Jenks.


I still dont think Hunter is worth all that money, he is great in the field, but he is not an exceptional hitter, i still feel him and Rowand are quite the same player. THat is my opinion.

I JUST DO NOT WANT TO SE OWENS OUT THERE ON OPENING DAY!!!!:angry:

This has started as a very frustraing off season so far. Plus the FA field is pretty scarce this season. I pray for some more moves, otherwise we are in the same boat as last year, if this means getting Rowand back so be it, though I also like Jones as an option, but he is getting up there in years.

Plus, KW would probably get Rowand to help with PR in regards to not stepping up to the plate with Hunter........as usual.

Lillian
11-22-2007, 11:28 AM
Yes. I just looked at Willits' line. He would fill the leadoff hole beautifully: Great speed and OBP.

With Vlad, Hunter and GMJ, their outfield is full. There's no room for him with the Angles now. But you're right; they have no one to protect Vlad. Kotchman is nice, but not what they need. They are desperate for power. PK fills the void for them.

Coop could improve Santana. For 08, he could start or be the long reliever.

Fields plays 1B. He will club 35 HRs in 2008. Keep Crede for his defense.

Fields, Willits and Santana are extremely cheap, providing flexibility to sign Rowand and a starting pitcher and bullpen help.

Here's the lineup:

Willits, Cabrera, Thome, Dye, Fields, Rowand, AJ, Crede, Richar

Good speed (possible SB and/or 1B to 3B on a single) at 1, 2, 5, 6, and 9
Decent power at 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8
Decent batting averages at 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7
Good OBP at 1, 2, 3 and 6

This is a lineup with no holes.

In thinking more about this trade proposal, couldn't we persuade the Angels to throw in one more piece? Maybe we could include Uribe, who could help Aybar while he is learning to play at the Major League level.
If we could pry someone else from the Halos, who would we want, (realistically)?

btrain929
11-22-2007, 12:11 PM
I wouldnt mind seeing Jones out there. He should be cheaper than Rowand and hopefully he had a down year last year.

Jones' contract might not be as long, but I don't think he'll be cheaper. Whether he's cheaper or more expensive, I say we go after him because he's the better baseball player than Aaron Rowand, period.

btrain929
11-22-2007, 12:14 PM
If you free up the money from Konerko and get Willits and Santana in return from the Angels, you can afford Rowand, even if you have to overpay. Willits, Santana, and Rowand are greater than Konerko. I'm not a big Rowand fan, but think his strength is in the clubhouse more than the field.

I'd want more in return for Konerko. With their OF and their rotation, they don't need either of those players, but they really need Konerko power-wise. We'd have a little bit more leverage in negotiations. 3 players minimum, something like Willits, Kotchman, and one of Shields/Santana/top SP prospect

gregory18n
11-22-2007, 12:43 PM
i'd prefer to upgrade our outfield by going after crawford in left & sticking w/ owens in center. if we have to go after a high priced centerfielder, it should be jones, his career makes him worthy. rowand is a good guy, but injures himself too often & doesn't have the career to warrant the massive $$$$$!

TheOldRoman
11-22-2007, 02:06 PM
at 18 mil a year ignore my rant because I was wrong

thats just too much for Hunter

14 a year is also too much for Rowand, but I fear thats what he is lookin at now.OK, at least you admit it. But do you still think KW was "played" or whatever you said before and used to drive his price up? The Angels came out of nowhere to throw $10-15 million more than any other team, and they don't even need a CF. Toriiiiiiiiii is a pretty good player, but he is not an impact player. He just got a superstar contract. The only way this makes an ounce of sense is if they trade for Miguel Cabrera. Either way, they still overpaid for Hunter.

Domeshot17
11-22-2007, 02:38 PM
OK, at least you admit it. But do you still think KW was "played" or whatever you said before and used to drive his price up? The Angels came out of nowhere to throw $10-15 million more than any other team, and they don't even need a CF. Toriiiiiiiiii is a pretty good player, but he is not an impact player. He just got a superstar contract. The only way this makes an ounce of sense is if they trade for Miguel Cabrera. Either way, they still overpaid for Hunter.

The reason I was flipping out was because when the report broke it was said he signed a 77-82 mil deal. If that was the case and the money was pretty much the same as our deal (rumored to be 72 mil) then I would still feel he got played. However, at 5/90, Its obvious Torii got that offer, Im guessing even had his agent talk to Kenny and the other teams to see if that is where he would max, and when they (rightfully) passed at 18 mil a year he signed.

Like I said, I flipped out without having all the info, and as usual, media and espn had only 70% of the story. I guess it may not seem it, but that 10 mil from 80 to 90 and the 15 from our offer to theirs is a huge deal.

It almost comes down too this now. At 18 mil a year do you want Hunter, Or Rowand/Andruw Jones AND Linebrink.

The thing sitting sour with me mostly is this lets Anaheim really run at Cabrera now. Willits is now in play unless they are planning to platoon DH Vlad/Garrett.

They can offer Ervin Santana-Reggie Willits AND top specs like Wood and one of their pitching specs and probably beat most offers. Willits had a fantastic rookie year.

Gammons Peter
11-22-2007, 02:44 PM
Crawford in left, Owens in center

Gammons Peter
11-22-2007, 02:47 PM
1.Owens
2.Cabrera
3.Crawford

4
5
6 lots of power
7
8

9.Richar

Thats speed

JermaineDye05
11-22-2007, 03:55 PM
1.Owens
2.Cabrera
3.Crawford

4

6 lots of power
7
8

9.Richar

Thats speed

Ozzie would love that lineup I'm sure as it gives him the ability to alternate l/r throughout the lineup.

1) Owens
2) Cabrera
3) Crawford
4) Konerko
5) Thome
6) Dye
7) Pierzynski
8) Fields
9) Richar

Jerko
11-22-2007, 04:03 PM
Can't wait for Coco Crisp patrolling left field and Jerry Owens in center field opening day. :rolleyes:

I had that same nightmare even before Hunter signed with the Angels.

getonbckthr
11-22-2007, 04:04 PM
Not to be a "I love Rowand" guy, but his stats are not too shabby the past few years. I just do not understand why a lot of peple are so down on him. We finally had a guy that we developed into a good player that is back on the market and everyone poo-poos him. We all saw the numbers compared to Tori, but everyone still denies that he may be a pretty damn good option.

Whats the story?
Last year not the past few years. He is slightly better than Troy O'leary and Bernard Gilkey.

Hunter2sox
11-22-2007, 04:05 PM
I think Coco Crisp would be a good option.

getonbckthr
11-22-2007, 04:07 PM
If Torii Hunter pulls in 18 then Jones is worth 20-22 million.

palehosepub
11-22-2007, 04:11 PM
I think after we dump Uribe we use his money to sign Shannon Stewart. Trade Crede for prospects. Then trade Cintron for a prospect. Send Broadway, McCollugh and a couple other Prospects to the Rays for Crawford.



LF Stewart
SS Cabrera
CF Crawford
1B Konerko
DH Thome
RF Dye
C Pierzynki
3B Fields
2B Richar

or

CF Crawford
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
LF Stewart
3B Fields
2B Richar

It gives the Sox speed, power and gives Ozzie the opportunity to mess around with the lineup.

getonbckthr
11-22-2007, 04:13 PM
I think after we dump Uribe we use his money to sign Shannon Stewart. Trade Crede for prospects. Then trade Cintron for a prospect. Send Broadway, McCollugh and a couple other Prospects to the Rays for Crawford.



LF Stewart
SS Cabrera
CF Crawford
1B Konerko
DH Thome
RF Dye
C Pierzynki
3B Fields
2B Richar

or

CF Crawford
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
LF Stewart
3B Fields
2B Richar

It gives the Sox speed, power and gives Ozzie the opportunity to mess around with the lineup.
Didn't we just D'FA a LF who can't stay healthy? I would rather have OWens play LF opposed to Shannon Stewart. If it was 5 yrs ago I would consider Stewart, not today.

Rockabilly
11-22-2007, 04:26 PM
According to Buster Olney the Dodgers are going to make a real big push to signing Rowand... He mention it on his video on ESPN.com

getonbckthr
11-22-2007, 04:31 PM
According to Buster Olney the Dodgers are going to make a real big push to signing Rowand... He mention it on his video on ESPN.com
Thank God.

CLR01
11-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Thank God.

Why do you hate winning world series?

Rockabilly
11-22-2007, 04:52 PM
I would sign Rowand than trade Crede and a low level prospect to the Dodgers for Pierre and Broxton

Lip Man 1
11-22-2007, 06:04 PM
According to a story by Scott Merkin now at White Sox.com on the Hunter fallout the names being mentioned are Crawford, Cabrerra and Rowand.

FWIW.

Lip

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 06:05 PM
Thank God.

I am kind of in agreement with you... if someone came in and offered Rowand a huge amount and he takes it, I would view that as a blessing in disguise... Rowand's price tage is seriously out of line with his true value and production...

DickAllen72
11-22-2007, 06:12 PM
I am kind of in agreement with you... if someone came in and offered Rowand a huge amount and he takes it, I would view that as a blessing in disguise... Rowand's price tage is seriously out of line with his true value and production...
KW should offer Rowand $75M for 6 years, take it or leave it. I would hope he would take it.

WSox597
11-22-2007, 06:41 PM
Then trade Cintron for a prospect.

I'd do that in a NY minute. The thing is, who would be dumb enough to trade a prospect for a mutt like Cintron?

He wouldn't make most teams in the majors, except the one he's currently on.

All of the posters who want to trade Uribe, should reconsider and get rid of this guy. Uribe can do anything Cintron can do.

Gonzalez needs to go adios too. Hasta la bye-bye.

Pasqua's Mailman
11-22-2007, 06:52 PM
KW should offer Rowand $75M for 6 years, take it or leave it. I would hope he would take it.

$12.5 million is way too much to spend on a guy like Rowand... not enough bang for the buck... if they spend that on him you know KW will cry poor when it comes to spending more on other FAs... If its a choice between Owens and Rowand, as much as I hate to say it, I would take Owens in CF... he's cheaper, he can leadoff and plays solid defense... Rowand's money is best spent elsewhere...

JermaineDye05
11-22-2007, 07:25 PM
I'd do that in a NY minute. The thing is, who would be dumb enough to trade a prospect for a mutt like Cintron?

He wouldn't make most teams in the majors, except the one he's currently on.

All of the posters who want to trade Uribe, should reconsider and get rid of this guy. Uribe can do anything Cintron can do.

Gonzalez needs to go adios too. Hasta la bye-bye.

I don't get why so many people on this board are down on Cintron. He's a career .277 hitter who had a down year last year partly to personal problems. I think people forget the year he had in 2006 and his clutch hits. He's servicable bench player that a lot of teams would love to have.

btrain929
11-22-2007, 07:34 PM
I would sign Rowand than trade Crede and a low level prospect to the Dodgers for Pierre and Broxton

Crede and a low level prospect won't get you Pierre OR Broxton, let alone both.

Rockabilly
11-22-2007, 10:13 PM
Crede and a low level prospect won't get you Pierre OR Broxton, let alone both.


Talks here in LA that the Dodgers aren't very happy with Pierre and can be had in a trade

GoSox2K3
11-22-2007, 10:56 PM
If Torii Hunter pulls in 18 then Jones is worth 20-22 million.

According to Buster Olney the Dodgers are going to make a real big push to signing Rowand... He mention it on his video on ESPN.com

Thank God.

Yes, I'm praying to God that with Jones worth $20-22 million, Rowand will be gone too. We're much better off if the White Sox are left with little or no decent free agent options to fill their gaping CF hole. I'd rather that we traded away talent to get someone mediocre like Crisp or just plug weak-armed Owens in CF.

thomas35forever
11-23-2007, 12:19 AM
We're not going to get Jones. Get Rowand ASAP no matter how much it takes.

WhiteSox5187
11-23-2007, 01:48 AM
While I agree that paying Rowand what he is asking for is overpaying, but ya know what? The market is what the market is. The Sox can either adjust to that fact or sit and pout. In this type of market, Rowand commands that type of money. Jerry Owens is not the answer for 2008 if the Sox want to compete and it looked to me that Jones was on his last legs last year and has clearly lost a step in center. As for Crawford, I seem to recall him being a defensive liablity in CF for the Rays, so I'm hesistant to put him there, but at the very least he solves our top of the order problem...I think Rowand is the best available guy out there. And let's not fool ourselves, he isn't Joe DiMaggio, but he isn't the worst player in the world either. The guy is an established Major Leaguer.

Grzegorz
11-23-2007, 05:50 AM
While I agree that paying Rowand what he is asking for is overpaying, but ya know what? The market is what the market is. The Sox can either adjust to that fact or sit and pout.

As Milton Friedman pointed out when spending other people's money on other people the least amount of care and thought is applied to those expenditures.

The market is the transaction; a person is free to price his service at whatever level they feel is appropriate. The market will determine the true value of that service.

Lillian
11-23-2007, 07:00 AM
If Coco Crisp is really available via trade, at a reasonable cost, he should be worthy of serious consideration. He had two very good seasons with Cleveland at ages 25 and 26. He was very consistent hitting .297 and then .300. His OBP was almost identical both years at .344 and .345 respectively. Those 62 extra base hits in '05 are very impressive.
We all remember how he killed us back then.

His fall off in 2006 can be explained almost entirely by the fractured finger:

"FINGER FAILURE: Suffered a non-displaced fracture at the base of his left index finger on April 8 at Baltimore on a stolen base attempt of third in the 3rd inning...was placed on the disabled list on April 11 (retroactive to April 9) and missed 41 games, returning to the club May 28...was batting .333 (8-for-24) with a double, triple and 6 runs scored in 5 games at the time of the injury...continued to be bothered by the finger injury after being reinstated, which worsened toward the end of the season...did not play after September 20 and underwent surgery on September 26 to ensure full healing of the fracture...overall, batted .260 (101-for-389) in 100 games after being activated from the D.L."

In spite of the injury, he had two very good months, hitting .330 and .323
in June and July. I really don't know how to explain his decline last year, but at his age, he just turned 28, it seems more reasonable to expect him to return to his previous performance level.

He has good speed, and some pretty good tools. I understand his arm is suspect, but aside from that, he is a very good defender.
His contract is reasonable, especially compared to the crazy deal that Hunter just signed.

My question is more about what it would take to get him. I understand that Boston regards him as being expendable, with Ellsbury likely to take over in CF. Unless Theo E. is more inclined to package him in a trade for J. Santana, what do you think it would take to acquire him?

chisox77
11-23-2007, 09:35 AM
Crisp would be a good Plan B in CF.

He would also be the most attainable option the White Sox would have.


:cool:

tick53
11-23-2007, 09:36 AM
Jerry Owens will be our center fielder this next year. I'm not happy about it but that's the way it will be. I hope I'm wrong.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-23-2007, 10:02 AM
Jerry Owens will be our center fielder this next year. I'm not happy about it but that's the way it will be. I hope I'm wrong.

If Owens is the starting CF in 2008, I think ticket sales will decline and that is not the direction the team wants to go. If KW was willing to spend $75-million on Hunter, which would have been the highest contract ever for the team, he obviously sees the deficiency in CF that everyone else does and he will fill it by opening day.

But, yeah, if Owens is the starting CF on opening day, we're screwed.

jenn2080
11-23-2007, 10:14 AM
Aaron Rowand will be back in a White Sox uniform by Dec 1.

MCHSoxFan
11-23-2007, 10:52 AM
Aaron Rowand will be back in a White Sox uniform by Dec 1.

Most likely. If not by 12/1/2007, I still think that KW will get him. I believe he sees and feels what we see and and feel. OWENS CANNOT BE OUR CF'ER IF WE WANT TO CONTEND. However, I would not mind him as our LF'er and in the 1 spot in the batting order. I do not that much about Jones. However, going by what people have been saying here, we may not get him due to his agent and the fact that he maybe getting worse. I like Aaron and even if you hate him with a passion, he will be be a big BIG upgrade from Jerry Owens.

russ99
11-23-2007, 11:03 AM
Can't wait for Coco Crisp patrolling left field and Jerry Owens in center field opening day. :rolleyes:

Uh, no. Crisp may be an option for LF or CF and leadoff, but we need a real MLB hitter for one of those positions on opening day.

I'll go with Rowand unless Crawford can be pried from the Rays.

rowand33
11-23-2007, 11:12 AM
Sign Rowand.
Sign Stewart.
Trade Uribe for a bag of balls to get his salary off the books.
Sign a reclamation project pitcher (Colon, Benson, Clement, etc.) to compete for a spot in the rotation (much better than just handing a job to the kids, IMO)
Sign Joe Kennedy for the bullpen.

Cross our fingers.

russ99
11-23-2007, 11:33 AM
I dunno about Shannon Stewart. He's very oft injured and is declining as a hitter. Wouldn't that be like getting Erstad back again?

I'd prefer Rowand/Crisp, or better yet, Crawford/Bay.

Sign Rowand.
Sign Stewart.
Trade Uribe for a bag of balls to get his salary off the books.
Sign a reclamation project pitcher (Colon, Benson, Clement, etc.) to compete for a spot in the rotation (much better than just handing a job to the kids, IMO)
Sign Joe Kennedy for the bullpen.

Cross our fingers.

rowand33
11-23-2007, 11:42 AM
I dunno about Shannon Stewart. He's very oft injured and is declining as a hitter. Wouldn't that be like getting Erstad back again?

I'd prefer Rowand/Crisp, or better yet, Crawford/Bay.

Stewart in 2007:
.290/.345/.394 in 576 AB s with 12 HRs, 11 SBs

Erstad in 2007:
.248/.310/.335 in 310 ABs with 4 HRs and 7 SBs

Stewart is much better than Erstad. I was clamoring for the sox to sign Shannon Stewart to play LF last offseason, and I'm doing it again.

He isn't perfect, but I think he's one of the better options out there. He has a career line of .302/.364/.441 as a leadoff hitter (4849 ABs).

I'd take Stewart over Coco and Coco's career .264/.314/.374 line as a leadoff hitter (1048 ABs).

jabrch
11-23-2007, 11:57 AM
If Owens is the starting CF in 2008, I think ticket sales will decline

That's ridiculous....


If you were talking about not having Buehrle, maybe. You may make the case with PK. But it is fcompletely assinine to say that any significant net number of fans will not come to the park jiust because Owens is in CF.

That's just dumb.

:chickenlittle

Jose.Contreras
11-23-2007, 12:09 PM
So, now that we missed out on the Torii Hunter signing and recently spent some of that money on Linebrink- what's the next move? Is it a signing of Rowand, Andruw Jones, or even Coco Crisp? Or we re-enter the trade market?-the far fetched chances of trading for a Carl Crawford or Migel Cabbrera? I personally would like to trade for a higher quality instead of overspending on one of the mediocre free agents...THoughts? Comments? Concerns?

35th and Shields
11-23-2007, 12:31 PM
I really hope the sox will be able to sign rowand but even if they can't I would like to see them make an offer for crisp as long as they don't overpay for him. I'm still not sure if this team has a enough to compete for the division especially if no more moves are made.

jcw218
11-23-2007, 01:45 PM
I think Aaron Rowand should be the next target, at a reasonable price say a 4 year 12 - 14 per year deal. If we were to get Coco Crisp, it would have to be through a trade as he is not a free agent.

BainesHOF
11-23-2007, 01:54 PM
Let's stay away from Crisp. Getting him would be like treading water.

Lukin13
11-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Here is a question,

Which would you rather:

Jon Garland and Brian Anderson

or

Gavin Floyd and Aaron Rowand


You may also substitute Anderson w/ Sweeney, Owens and even though it is too late Pods or Erstad.

You may substitute Floyd w/ Broadway, Gio, Haegar etc.

----

I pick Garland and Anderson for a few reasons but the main one is:

You currently would only be locked for one season w/ Garland at 12 mil. If you pay Rowand you have him for 6 years. Aaron Rowand is not a superstar, and the way the current market plays out, I see value in superstars and young players whom haven't reached free agency. If I were Kenny I would save my pennies for franchise players, and as much as I like his defense, AR is not a franchise player.

gregory18n
11-23-2007, 02:11 PM
Carl Crawford would be my priority #1.

gregoriop
11-23-2007, 02:13 PM
Carl Crawford would be my priority #1.

I agree with my fellow Greg.

soltrain21
11-23-2007, 02:23 PM
Here is a question,

Which would you rather:

Jon Garland and Brian Anderson

or

Gavin Floyd and Aaron Rowand


You may also substitute Anderson w/ Sweeney, Owens and even though it is too late Pods or Erstad.

You may substitute Floyd w/ Broadway, Gio, Haegar etc.

----

I pick Garland and Anderson for a few reasons but the main one is:

You currently would only be locked for one season w/ Garland at 12 mil. If you pay Rowand you have him for 6 years. Aaron Rowand is not a superstar, and the way the current market plays out, I see value in superstars and young players whom haven't reached free agency. If I were Kenny I would save my pennies for franchise players, and as much as I like his defense, AR is not a franchise player.



This is all nice and great; but Garland is gone...so this argument is rather pointless, isn't it?

Hitmen77
11-23-2007, 02:31 PM
Sign Rowand.
Sign Stewart.
Trade Uribe for a bag of balls to get his salary off the books.
Sign a reclamation project pitcher (Colon, Benson, Clement, etc.) to compete for a spot in the rotation (much better than just handing a job to the kids, IMO)

Cross our fingers.

My 2008 Lineup
Stewart LF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Rowand CF
Fields 3B
AJ C
Richar 2B

I think this is a likely scenario. I wonder what will happen with Crede. My guess is that KW would prefer to move Joe, but I don't know if he's tradeable at this point.

I dunno about Shannon Stewart. He's very oft injured and is declining as a hitter. Wouldn't that be like getting Erstad back again?

I'd prefer Rowand/Crisp, or better yet, Crawford/Bay.

It depends on how much the Sox would have to trade to get Crisp. All other things being equal, I'd take Crisp over Stewart in LF. But we wouldn't have to give up anyone for Stewart but we'd have to trade away something for Crisp.

santo=dorf
11-23-2007, 02:47 PM
The next step is to add Linebrink to the 40 man and drop one of the guys from it (hopefully someone else in my sig.)

The Sox have 4 catchers on the 40 man, and the Mets just lost out on Yorvit. Toby Hall to the Mets?

TheVulture
11-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Let's stay away from Crisp. Getting him would be like treading water.

So putting Crisp into the outfield fold would be equivalant to having Darrin Erstad as our opening day CFer? He isn't any better than the OFers on the current sox roster? Terrero, BA, Owens, Gonzalez - all just as good as Crisp, eh? Cause those are the guys currently listed to cover the ground Dye can't get to.

TheVulture
11-23-2007, 02:57 PM
Terrero, BA, Owens, Gonzalez - all just as good as Crisp, eh? Cause those are the guys currently listed to cover the ground Dye can't get to.

I hate to quote me self, but re-reading this sentence, I just became exceedingly depressed over our Sox.

jcw218
11-23-2007, 03:12 PM
... Terrero, BA, Owens, Gonzalez ... Cause those are the guys currently listed to cover the ground Dye can't get to.

Actually, Terrero was outrighted to Charlotte on 10-3-07 and is no longer on the Sox roster. The outfielders not named Dye on the roster are Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, Andy Gonzalez, and Ryan Sweeney.

Rockin Robin
11-23-2007, 04:35 PM
1. Even more bullpen help. I can't take another summer of knowing the lead will be blown in the 8th and 9th. Linebrink is an ok start, but a couple more live arms would help.

2. Aaron Rowand

The Thomenator
11-23-2007, 04:47 PM
Does anyone out there have an idea what it would take to get Brian Roberts from the Orioles? Whatever it may be, I would consider it.

MCHSoxFan
11-23-2007, 05:06 PM
1. Even more bullpen help. I can't take another summer of knowing the lead will be blown in the 8th and 9th. Linebrink is an ok start, but a couple more live arms would help.

2. Aaron Rowand

Yeah. That is what I am thinking, too.

thomas35forever
11-23-2007, 05:13 PM
1. Even more bullpen help. I can't take another summer of knowing the lead will be blown in the 8th and 9th. Linebrink is an ok start, but a couple more live arms would help.

2. Aaron Rowand
Spot on. You have to be speaking for the majority of White Sox fans everywhere.

DickAllen72
11-23-2007, 06:00 PM
Here is a question,

Which would you rather:

Jon Garland and Brian Anderson

or

Gavin Floyd and Aaron Rowand

I'll take Rowand and Floyd/Broadway/Gio/etc. over Garland and Anderson anyday.

Garland>>Floyd, but Rowand>>>>>>>Anderson.

JRIG
11-23-2007, 06:39 PM
I think Aaron Rowand should be the next target, at a reasonable price say a 4 year 12 - 14 per year deal. If we were to get Coco Crisp, it would have to be through a trade as he is not a free agent.

Rowand would be a complete fool to take a deal like this. He's 2 years younger than Hunter with a better career BA (by 15 points!), OBP (by 19 points!), and only slightly behind in SLG (7 points). Defensively he's better than Hunter at this point in his career...and I'm not even a huge Rowand fan. Hunter has lost about 4 steps over the past two years.

So if you're Rowand's agent, you start at 5 years/75 million and let the bidding begin. I would not be shocked to see Rowand get a six year deal. It'll be a terrible contract for whatever team signs him, but Hunter has set the curve, so to speak, and any decent agent will spin that into millions more for Rowand.

JB98
11-23-2007, 07:19 PM
I think the Sox should go after a guy like Willits. The Angels need to win now and have excess talent in the outfield. They still need a first baseman. Hunter can't provide the protection they really need for Vlad. So the Sox trade them Konerko for Willits and Erwin Santana.

:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
11-23-2007, 08:11 PM
:rolleyes:

What about Willits, Santana and Shields? :?:

JB98
11-23-2007, 08:55 PM
What about Willits, Santana and Shields? :?:

:rolleyes:

chisox77
11-23-2007, 09:19 PM
I wanted Hunter very badly.

But alternative plans have worked for the White Sox before. Coco Crisp may be an attractive and sensible plan B move for CF, because he would be a clear upgrade defensively, and add speed to the line up.

Add another good pitcher to the bullpen, and mayble make a deal for an undervalued starter (Dontrelle Willis).

The Sox still may have enough chips to deal for Carl Crawford. An outfield of Crawford, Crisp, and Dye would be a nice upgrade over the last two years.

If the Sox get Rowand, it may take the kind of financial commitment they offered to Hunder (5/$75 million). I think the Sox would have a good shot at getting Rowand back, but there could be a better direction to go if KW makes a few creative deals, which he is capable of doing.

Anyhow, an all-star SS and proven quality relief pitcher is a good start. We'll have to see what remains . . .

:cool:

FarWestChicago
11-23-2007, 09:47 PM
Defensively he's better than Hunter at this point in his career...and I'm not even a huge Rowand fan. Hunter has lost about 4 steps over the past two years.OK JRIG, you're supposed to be a stathead and at least a bit coherent. I don't care if Toriiiiiiii has lost 20 steps; he's better than "where the **** is the goddamned ball" Rowand defensively. Seriously, what drug did you take to convince yourself Rowand rocks Center? :dunno:

JRIG
11-23-2007, 10:16 PM
OK JRIG, you're supposed to be a stathead and at least a bit coherent. I don't care if Toriiiiiiii has lost 20 steps; he's better than "where the **** is the goddamned ball" Rowand defensively. Seriously, what drug did you take to convince yourself Rowand rocks Center? :dunno:

I think Hunter has regressed to the point where he and Rowand are at least comparable. And I think Rowand is average at best defensively. I've seen Hunter make some truly atrocious plays recently, turning singles into doubles and triples by diving for balls he might have gotten to a couple years ago.

We're talking about two guys who are nowhere near the upper echelon of defensive center fielders. Both probably should be playing left field.

santo=dorf
11-23-2007, 10:21 PM
:rolleyes:
I am convinced Frater has been replaced with a bot that proposes the same Konerko trade over, and over, and over again.

Santana sucks.
Willits is interesting.
Shields completely fell apart in the second half.

Enough of the "maybe Coop can fix 'em" posts too. How about Cooper fixes our current pitchers first?

Daver
11-23-2007, 10:29 PM
We're talking about two guys who are nowhere near the upper echelon of defensive center fielders. Both probably should be playing left field.

I ain't buying it. Rowand is not a center fielder, Hunter is.

Frater Perdurabo
11-23-2007, 10:31 PM
I am convinced Frater has been replaced with a bot that proposes the same Konerko trade over, and over, and over again.

I have a reputation to maintain. :tongue:

FarWestChicago
11-23-2007, 10:34 PM
We're talking about two guys who are nowhere near the upper echelon of defensive center fielders. Both probably should be playing left field.I can't give you any crap about the Diver being overrated in center. But Jesus, you should be able to find a left fielder able to hit better than either of them. I remember when your left fielder was lucky to catch a popup and you didn't care because they left many balls without a cover by the end of the game. Richie Zisk comes to mind. But hell, I'm old. :smile:

santo=dorf
11-23-2007, 10:35 PM
I have a reputation to maintain. :tongue:
At least you're being consistant. It's much worse to be :windsock:

WhiteSox5187
11-23-2007, 10:43 PM
As Milton Friedman pointed out when spending other people's money on other people the least amount of care and thought is applied to those expenditures.

The market is the transaction; a person is free to price his service at whatever level they feel is appropriate. The market will determine the true value of that service.
And right now apparently the market is saying that Torii Hunter is worth five years ninety million dollars, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it says that Rowand is worth five years sixty million. The Sox (and some of their fans) are going to have to accept this reality or miss out on signing FAs.

Nellie_Fox
11-24-2007, 01:33 AM
I watch A LOT of Twins games (with the sound muted and the Sox game on XM) and, while I'm certainly no ML scout, I think Torii's speed was pretty much back to normal this year. By no means has he lost "four steps."

Hitmen77
11-24-2007, 11:17 AM
IMO, the debate over "Hunter vs. Rowand" is irrelevant at this point. The Sox obviously wanted Hunter more but were blown away by the Angels' $18 million/yr offer. For purposes of the "what's next" debate, I don't care if Torii has lost 4 steps or not because he's not coming here, period.

"Plan A" didn't happen....now the debate is between Rowand and other available CF options. I'm figuring that we may as well drop Jones from the list (or at least consider him extremely unlikely) because he is a Boras agent and I find it hard to believe that JR and KW will negotiate anything with Scott Boras.