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View Full Version : Kenny, how about adding the other Cabrera?


PeoriaSoxFan
11-20-2007, 10:50 PM
It sounds like one of the LA teams is close to getting Miguel Cabrera. This article lists the Sox as being on the fringe of a deal for him. I am ok with the deal made yesterday by Kenny, but would love to see this one done. Ken Rosenthal speculates that the Sox would need to give up Fields, Sweeney, and Gio. I would hate to give up Gio and rely on Floyd and Danks next season, but I would pull the trigger if that truly was on the table. Unfortunately, the Sox don't have the apparent depth and quality of young talent to compete with the LA teams on this one.

Assuming they can't get Miguel, where to do they go in LF, now that Pods is officially out? Please don't say Owens.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7466954

Sockinchisox
11-20-2007, 10:53 PM
It sounds like one of the LA teams is close to getting Miguel Cabrera. This article lists the Sox as being on the fringe of a deal for him. I am ok with the deal made yesterday by Kenny, but would love to see this one done. Ken Rosenthal speculates that the Sox would need to give up Fields, Sweeney, and Gio. I would hate to give up Gio and rely on Floyd and Danks next season, but I would pull the trigger if that truly was on the table. Unfortunately, the Sox don't have the apparent depth and quality of young talent to compete with the LA teams on this one.

Assuming they can't get Miguel, where to do they go in LF, now that Pods is officially out? Please don't say Owens.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7466954

Stewart?

DumpJerry
11-20-2007, 10:55 PM
Ken Rosenthal's knowledge of baseball is rivaled only by Moronetti. During the World Series, he said the Rockies got to the Series by beating the Cubs and Diamondbacks. That is just one example.

DickAllen72
11-20-2007, 10:57 PM
Ken Rosenthal speculates that the Sox would need to give up Fields, Sweeney, and Gio. I would hate to give up Gio and rely on Floyd and Danks next season, but I would pull the trigger if that truly was on the table.
If the Marlins put that deal on the table it would have been done in a heartbeat.

PeoriaSoxFan
11-20-2007, 10:58 PM
Ken Rosenthal's knowledge of baseball is rivaled only by Moronetti. During the World Series, he said the Rockies got to the Series by beating the Cubs and Diamondbacks. That is just one example.

You are probably right. He is right up there with all of the pundits, including Steve Phillips who predicted the Sox would get M. Cabrera and Hunter on ESPN radio. By the way, Mariotti, of course, had to jump all over the Sox trade today as "making no sense". Why does he still have a job in Chicago? His only purpose in life seems to be aimed at ridiculing the White Sox.

The Immigrant
11-20-2007, 10:59 PM
Melky Cabrera is a stronger possibility - the Yankees are reportedly shopping him and could enter the Hunter sweepstakes.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/659582,hunter112007.article

rowand33
11-20-2007, 11:41 PM
problem with getting the other cabrera is, who leads off?

because I assume acquiring cabrera means that we trade fields and keep crede. putting cabrera in left.

now, if we were to trade for cabrera to play third, trade joe for some bullpen help, and sign stewart to leadoff (with owens as the 4th OF for speed off the bench and leadoff insurance) I'd be very happy.

Imagine this lineup:

Stewart LF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Cabrera 3B
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Hunter CF
AJ C
Richar 2B

that's absolutely sick. Miguel Cabrera could put up ARod numbers in that lineup. Fields, Sweeney, and Gio would be well worth it.

Floyd could have an era around 5 and still win 12.

WhiteSox5187
11-21-2007, 03:04 AM
Why would we want Cabrera? The guy is a butcher in the field, and he can hit and only for power...it'd be like having Manny or C-Lee roaming left. This team needs speed now and guys who can get on base. Not guys who can hti a ton of homeruns.

Grzegorz
11-21-2007, 05:47 AM
Why would we want Cabrera? The guy is a butcher in the field, and he can hit and only for power...it'd be like having Manny or C-Lee roaming left. This team needs speed now and guys who can get on base. Not guys who can hti a ton of homeruns.

Because it would be fun to see high scoring games. Who would want to sit through a tightly pitched, defensive, & well executed version of the national pastime?

I totally agree with the above quote; these kinds of moves satiate the visceral crowd. Without quality starting and relief pitching we, the Chicago White Sox fan, would find ourselves struggling to win games.

But what the hell, watching the teams score a ton of runs sure was exciting right?

Rockabilly
11-21-2007, 07:35 AM
I wonder if KW was giving us a clue that he was trying to land a big fish, just maybe he was talking about Cabrera

KyWhiSoxFan
11-21-2007, 08:05 AM
I wonder if KW was giving us a clue that he was trying to land a big fish, just maybe he was talking about Cabrera

How about getting both Cabrera and Hunter? The Sox don't have to give up any players to get Hunter. With Thome coming off payroll in a year or so, plus Contreras in two years, it frees up a lot of money. The first year would be expensive, but if JR could afford to bite the bullet and underwrite the cost, it would be a heck of a lineup.

Jjav829
11-21-2007, 08:12 AM
Why would we want Cabrera? The guy is a butcher in the field, and he can hit and only for power...it'd be like having Manny or C-Lee roaming left. This team needs speed now and guys who can get on base. Not guys who can hti a ton of homeruns.

Yeah, totally. Cabrera and his career .313 average can only hit for power. We need guys who can get on base...like Pods. We don't need Miguel Cabrera and his career .388 OBP or .929 OPS. :?:

cws05champ
11-21-2007, 08:21 AM
Yeah, totally. Cabrera and his career .313 average can only hit for power. We need guys who can get on base...like Pods. We don't need Miguel Cabrera and his career .388 OBP or .929 OPS. :?:

Thank you!!!

Lukin13
11-21-2007, 08:21 AM
I would hate to give up that kind of young inexpensive talent for Cabrera, (although he is obviously worth it from an on the field standpoint); when down the road or even this year players of his caliber are available for zero talent; all you have to do is pony up the big bucks. You are essentially getting the right to extend Cabrera to a monster contract in exchange for our top 3 young players.

Mr.1Dog
11-21-2007, 08:41 AM
Does anyone else remember when Miguel Cabrera was being intentionally walked and hit a game winning single? That's effort and would love to have that kinda of skill at the plate...

oeo
11-21-2007, 10:38 AM
I would hate to give up that kind of young inexpensive talent for Cabrera, (although he is obviously worth it from an on the field standpoint); when down the road or even this year players of his caliber are available for zero talent; all you have to do is pony up the big bucks. You are essentially getting the right to extend Cabrera to a monster contract in exchange for our top 3 young players.

I love Fields, Gio, and Sweeney, but for Miguel Cabrera? I'd do it in a second.

None of those guys will ever be the player that Cabrera is. Of course, Kenny better follow it up with a long term contract, or it's all moot. And that would probably mean someone else has to go, or we don't sign Hunter/Rowand, which could actually be good. Think about it...we could trade Konerko for pitching (if the Dodgers don't acquire Cabrera, like Rosenthal mentioned, they still don't have that big bat), and in the end we'll be a much better team.

BTW, it would surprise the hell out of me if the Indians actually acquired him. Would they sign him to an extension (could they even do it?) when they have their Cy Young soon awaiting a contract?

The Dude
11-21-2007, 11:26 AM
Stewart?

Yes I hope so. I've been preaching him the last couple weeks. I think he's the perfect choice at the right price.
I honestly can't say how happy I am Pods is gone!:bandance:

The Dude
11-21-2007, 11:29 AM
problem with getting the other cabrera is, who leads off?

because I assume acquiring cabrera means that we trade fields and keep crede. putting cabrera in left.

now, if we were to trade for cabrera to play third, trade joe for some bullpen help, and sign stewart to leadoff (with owens as the 4th OF for speed off the bench and leadoff insurance) I'd be very happy.

Imagine this lineup:

Stewart LF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Cabrera 3B
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Hunter CF
AJ C
Richar 2B

that's absolutely sick. Miguel Cabrera could put up ARod numbers in that lineup. Fields, Sweeney, and Gio would be well worth it.

Floyd could have an era around 5 and still win 12.

That lineup is sick. The only problem with it is deciding which player hits where since there are so many solid hitters in the entire lineup besides #9.

Zisk77
11-21-2007, 11:41 AM
Does anyone else remember when Miguel Cabrera was being intentionally walked and hit a game winning single? That's effort and would love to have that kinda of skill at the plate...

And we are critical of Juan's free swinging ways, this guy swings at pitch outs. :tongue:

Huisj
11-21-2007, 12:41 PM
Without quality starting and relief pitching we, the Chicago White Sox fan, would find ourselves struggling to win games.

I'd be ok with the fans struggling to win games if the actual White Sox were still ok. :wink:

KyWhiSoxFan
11-21-2007, 02:17 PM
To get a singular talent like Cabrera, I would be willing to give up Gio, Sweeney, Fields and Danks. Cabrera is putting up numbers that suggests he is headed to the hall of fame. Those guys don't come along often or cheaply. You get them if you can.

rowand33
11-21-2007, 02:20 PM
To get a singular talent like Cabrera, I would be willing to give up Gio, Sweeney, Fields and Danks. Cabrera is putting up numbers that suggests he is headed to the hall of fame. Those guys don't come along often or cheaply. You get them if you can.

I don't think we can afford to give up Danks.

If they'd take Floyd as a substitute, fine. Gio, Sweeney, Fields, and Floyd.

I think Gio, Sweeney, and Fields should be enough though. Fields can contribute immediately and slug his way to 30 HR and 100 RBI at the major league level. That should make him a very valuable commoditiy.

SBSoxFan
11-21-2007, 02:46 PM
Yes I hope so. I've been preaching him the last couple weeks. I think he's the perfect choice at the right price.
I honestly can't say how happy I am Pods is gone!:bandance:


Why? Looking quickly at Stewart's numbers --- he's played more than 140 games in a season only twice since 2002. In the last 4 years he's only stolen 27 bases and been caught 12 times (69.2%), and his OBP those years was .380, .323, .347, and .345 for 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007, respectively. I don't see how that's the perfect choice.

rowand33
11-21-2007, 02:51 PM
Why? Looking quickly at Stewart's numbers --- he's played more than 140 games in a season only twice since 2002. In the last 4 years he's only stolen 27 bases and been caught 12 times (69.2%), and his OBP those years was .380, .323, .347, and .345 for 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007, respectively. I don't see how that's the perfect choice.

I think Stewart in LF leading off or Eckstein at 2B leading off are our two best bets for leadoff man on the free agent market.

They're not perfect choices, but Stewart's career OBP is .362 and Eckstein's is .351.

I'll take somethign around .350 from our leadoff guy.

Your leadoff man doesn't have to steal bases; it's a bonus if he does.

He just needs to get on base.

Lukin13
11-21-2007, 05:27 PM
Again, why give up players (let alone our most valuable) for the right to extend Miggy to a bazillion dollar deal? That is all you are getting, one year on the field and sole negotiating rights. Maybe he would sign for what... 20 million less over 8 years to get the guranteed money today? That is all you get for Fields, Sweeney and Gio.

The Sox could have signed Arod for the same kinda dough without giving up anyone.

This won't happen.

fquaye149
11-21-2007, 05:42 PM
Yeah, totally. Cabrera and his career .313 average can only hit for power. We need guys who can get on base...like Pods. We don't need Miguel Cabrera and his career .388 OBP or .929 OPS. :?:


I've come to the conclusion that there are many White Sox fans who really really detest anyone who actually has any talent...especially at hitting.

Don't give me the flashy guy who'll OPS high 900's with 30 HR and 120 RBI. My superstar is Paul Konerko with his .850 career OPS--at least you can tell he's, like, working hard to get there

KyWhiSoxFan
11-21-2007, 05:58 PM
I've come to the conclusion that there are many White Sox fans who really really detest anyone who actually has any talent...especially at hitting.

Don't give me the flashy guy who'll OPS high 900's with 30 HR and 120 RBI. My superstar is Paul Konerko with his .850 career OPS--at least you can tell he's, like, working hard to get there

Yeah, but if they enforce the rule that you can't step out of the box and adjust your gloves after every pitch, will you be able to tell he's working hard?

fquaye149
11-21-2007, 06:22 PM
Yeah, but if they enforce the rule that you can't step out of the box and adjust your gloves after every pitch, will you be able to tell he's working hard?

You'll have to just use your grind-dar

PalehosePlanet
11-21-2007, 10:26 PM
That lineup is sick. The only problem with it is deciding which player hits where since there are so many solid hitters in the entire lineup besides #9.

This will never happen, we can't afford both Cabrera and Hunter. We'd have to pick up Stewart for LF and try and trade for Ryan Freel (Cin) or Baldelli (TB) to play CF, or any 2 of the 3.

Oh, that #9 that you speak of WILL hit.

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 09:56 PM
Kenny offered Fields, Owens, Danks, and Gio for Cabrera and was apparently told no.

Thank god.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2007, 09:59 PM
Kenny offered Fields, Owens, Danks, and Gio for Cabrera and was apparently told no.

Thank god.

Where did you hear that?

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 10:01 PM
Where did you hear that?

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Morisato/2007/11/29/On_The_Block_Miguel_Cabrera

JermaineDye05
11-30-2007, 10:10 PM
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Morisato/2007/11/29/On_The_Block_Miguel_Cabrera

sounds like it was a rumored package, and the guy just says that it 'probably won't cut it'. Either way I wouldn't want to give that much up for Miguel, as much as he is a great player. Our rotation would then be left in the hands of who? IF that was true I imagine Kenny and the other people in the organization are pretty high on Egbert, Poreda, and De Los Santos.

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 10:14 PM
sounds like it was a rumored package, and the guy just says that it 'probably won't cut it'. Either way I wouldn't want to give that much up for Miguel, as much as he is a great player. Our rotation would then be left in the hands of who? IF that was true I imagine Kenny and the other people in the organization are pretty high on Egbert, Poreda, and De Los Santos.

I figured they were told no because the writer said "were going after Cabrera".

nccwsfan
11-30-2007, 10:14 PM
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Morisato/2007/11/29/On_The_Block_Miguel_Cabrera

In reading between the lines you see the Marlins:

* Want four players with 0-3 years experience that are considered to be 'studs'
* Have made it clear who they want from each team, no ifs, ands, or buts
* Do not consider the combination of Fields, Owens, Gonzalez, and Danks to be the four studs

So two questions come to mind who are four studs they want from the White Sox in return for Cabrera and are there any players in this organization that are considered to be untouchable?

Sockinchisox
11-30-2007, 10:15 PM
In reading between the lines you see the Marlins:

* Want four players with 0-3 years experience that are considered to be 'studs'
* Have made it clear who they want from each team, no ifs, ands, or buts
* Do not consider the combination of Fields, Owens, Gonzalez, and Danks to be the four studs

So two questions come to mind who are four studs they want from the White Sox in return for Cabrera and are there any players in this organization that are considered to be untouchable?

Simple answer, we have no studs.

KRS1
11-30-2007, 11:04 PM
In reading between the lines you see the Marlins:


And if you actually read further between the lines, this site is just the blog of a normal Joe-Texas Rangers fan, with no apparent connections to the game that would make this anything but a big rumor or speculation on his behalf. To put it simply, I wouldn't take a thing he says there as anything remotely resembling fact or inside knowledge. Just another fan-run rumor page that shouldn't be used a reliable source.

champagne030
11-30-2007, 11:24 PM
In reading between the lines you see the Marlins:

* Want four players with 0-3 years experience that are considered to be 'studs'
* Have made it clear who they want from each team, no ifs, ands, or buts
* Do not consider the combination of Fields, Owens, Gonzalez, and Danks to be the four studs

So two questions come to mind who are four studs they want from the White Sox in return for Cabrera and are there any players in this organization that are considered to be untouchable?

I wouldn't pay what Florida is asking and the Angels or Dodgers will not either. It seems the package has now fallen to 3 'stud' prospects. The problem is that Hendrick, Mathis and Adenhart beats Fields, Danks and Gio, plus Kershaw, Kemp and Broxton blows away the Sox offer.

KRS1
11-30-2007, 11:55 PM
The problem is that Hendrick, Mathis and Adenhart beats Fields, Danks and Gio,

I really would love for someone to explain why that Angels package is better than ours.

Hendrick is a very good young 2b, and definitely has a very bright future ahead of him, but is it really brighter than Josh's, or is it that he is more a high floor to go along with his high ceiling "sure thing" at this point?

Mathis is the Angels version of Ryan Sweeney/Brian Anderson who's only value right now appears to be that he is still somewhat young (25 to start next season)and plays the premium position of C.

Adenhart has had TJ surgery, and while he has some dynamite stuff, he hasn't proven to be a better pitcher than Gio, or nearly as dominant. I am not saying he isn't an awesome prospect, but I can't see why he would be considered better than Gio at this point. The big difference I guess would be the few inches and MPH he has on his FB compared to Gio.

Add in the fact that Danks is only going to be 23 freaking years old, and everyone seems ready to bail on him. He has a very bright future ahead of him, and seeing everyone so down on him makes me mad to no end. I wouldn't trade both Gio and Danks in any deal beyond one that brought us a stud pitcher to make up for the fact that we would be losing two key components to our future rotation.

UserNameBlank
12-01-2007, 08:29 AM
I really would love for someone to explain why that Angels package is better than ours.

Hendrick is a very good young 2b, and definitely has a very bright future ahead of him, but is it really brighter than Josh's, or is it that he is more a high floor to go along with his high ceiling "sure thing" at this point?

Mathis is the Angels version of Ryan Sweeney/Brian Anderson who's only value right now appears to be that he is still somewhat young (25 to start next season)and plays the premium position of C.

Adenhart has had TJ surgery, and while he has some dynamite stuff, he hasn't proven to be a better pitcher than Gio, or nearly as dominant. I am not saying he isn't an awesome prospect, but I can't see why he would be considered better than Gio at this point. The big difference I guess would be the few inches and MPH he has on his FB compared to Gio.

Add in the fact that Danks is only going to be 23 freaking years old, and everyone seems ready to bail on him. He has a very bright future ahead of him, and seeing everyone so down on him makes me mad to no end. I wouldn't trade both Gio and Danks in any deal beyond one that brought us a stud pitcher to make up for the fact that we would be losing two key components to our future rotation.

I really have to agree with you on this one.

Kendrick has a ton of potential but Fields is a future 40HR/season player. Josh has produced his power already and will be an impact player, and there's no question about it IMO. The guy in this article says "the Marlins seem to be going after superstar prospects and nothing less." Oh, so Fields isn't a superstar prospect? You mean a guy with that much power, who produced in the majors as a rookie despite obvious flaws in his approach and while battling an injury, who is still capable of stealing 20-25 bags when healthy doesn't have superstar potential? I don't think I agree with that assessment...

Gio led the minors in K's last year repeating double A. You look at his numbers (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Giovany-Gonzalez.shtml)and aside from 32.2 IP in Kanny as an 18 year old and his first year in Double A, which was after switching organizations btw, the guy has been dominant. Last year he put up an 11.10 K/9 ratio and a 1.15 WHIP. This is from a lefty throwing in the low nineties with a nasty curve and improving change. He's valuable.

Danks will be repeating a level next year for the first time in his career and its MLB. He should have spent last year in Triple A to rebound from his poor season in Texas' system but he didn't because Gavin Floyd was terrible in ST. Still, depsite a horrid second half I think Danks did more than enough to impress during the first part of the year. He seems like a hard worker and the type of guy who will put it all together.

Owens still has speed. He improved a lot at the end of the year and he really, IMO, showed that he deserves a chance to show what he's got for someone. If Joey Gathright can get chance after chance then Owens certainly deserves one too. Still, Owens is the wrong guy to offer IMO. The Sox would be better off offering Anderson and/or Sweeney. Whoever picks those guys up, especially if its Anderson, is going to get something for nothing and maybe even come out of it with a huge steal.

Kendrick is the only superstar I see the Angels offering. On Adenhart, since low A, his WHIP has risen each year, his K/9 has decreased each year, his HR rate has risen, his H/9 has risen each year, and his BB/9 has risen each year. Granted, he's only twenty, but he's never had the K rate or H/9 that would back up why scouts say he has front of the rotation potential. Infact, his scouting report kinda sounds similar to Adam Russell. Mathis is something special I guess, in fact, he must be a superstar prospect. I guess that minor league career line of .277/.340/.444 and MLB career line of .197/.267/.336 says something I don't see. All I see is something that says he could maybe be an everyday catcher, and at least a capable backup.

I think overall people just fall in love with the Angels' prospects because they never trade them. Their prospects have the reps. All I know is that if the Sox put together a package of say Fields + Gio + Danks + Anderson + Aardsma/Massett/Day/Russell for instance the Marlins could end up getting a legitimate superstar corner IF/corner OF + 2 #3 lefty starters (how much do they cost right now?) + a starting GG-caliber CF + a young bullpen arm with late inning potential. With the Angels, it looks like the Marlins would be getting a superstar 2B in Kendrick, a righty #3 starter in Adenhart, maybe a decent everyday catcher in Mathis, and then, since the Marlins are asking for another pitcher, either Joe Saunders who tops out as about a #4/#5 IMO or Ervin Santana, who has ace potential but has something wrong with his head obviously.

I think the Marlins are looking at Kendrick+Adenhart+Mathis+Santana as the best deal, mainly because Mathis and Kendrick don't K very often and Santana has some real potential. Other than that, the offer I just proposed I think is at least comparable if not a better package as far as talent is concerned.

So yeah, screw whoever wrote this article. The Sox don't have the depth the Angels have in the farm, but its not like all our players suck.

Tragg
12-01-2007, 09:00 AM
I'd like to see us save our best prospects and deal the 2nd tier ones, like most of the top organizations do.

Better yet, get a budding young outfielder for some veterans and mid tier prospects like the Twins did.