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View Full Version : Rangers Have Offered Hunter A 6-Year Deal


Thome25
11-20-2007, 05:56 PM
Link:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/659582,hunter112007.article

At least five teams have made offers to Hunter. According to baseball sources, all are for five years, with the exception of the Rangers’ six-year offer, and the teams include the Los Angeles Dodgers, who are expected to go after Hunter very aggressively if their trade talks with Florida for third baseman Miguel Cabrera break down.

If that's makes the difference in which team that Hunter decides to go to, then I hope KW passes on that 6th year.

And I've been pro-Hunter going to the Sox.

What do you think about the Sox chances and the article above?

Madvora
11-20-2007, 06:04 PM
At least we're moving forward here. There should be a choice very soon.
Hunter seems to compliment the Sox a lot in these articles which is a good thing. I think he does want to come here, but he is smart to play the field too.
I'm confident that the Sox can stay with a 5 year deal and if he refuses, then we'll quickly snatch up Rowand, save some money, and put that towards pitching.

Navarro's Talent
11-20-2007, 06:08 PM
I still think he's going with the Sox. It seems we'll find out shortly.

Thome25
11-20-2007, 06:13 PM
The fact that the Rangers went for that extra year scares me because I think it makes them the frontrunners IMO.

An extra year AND Hunter gets to live close to home might be too hard for him to pass up.

I hope I'm wrong and he's roaming CF for our Sox in 2008!! :D:

upperdeckusc
11-20-2007, 06:17 PM
The fact that the Rangers went for that extra year scares me because I think it makes them the frontrunners IMO.

An extra year AND Hunter gets to live close to home might be too hard for him to pass up.

I hope I'm wrong and he's roaming CF for our Sox in 2008!! :D:

if that's the case, i wouldnt mind trying a 3 yr deal with andruw. he should come back with a vengeance to get his numbers up to where they should be, and he should still be in line for another big contract if he does well. plus, we're not going to 5 yrs, risking wasting money on yrs 4 and 5 no matter who it is. juuuuuuuust a thought. only snagging point is probably boras. the only reason i see a glimmer of hope is that people arent going to be scratching and clawing to give him a 5-6 yr deal based on last yr.

Daver
11-20-2007, 06:20 PM
if that's the case, i wouldnt mind trying a 3 yr deal with andruw. he should come back with a vengeance to get his numbers up to where they should be, and he should still be in line for another big contract if he does well. plus, we're not going to 5 yrs, risking wasting money on yrs 4 and 5 no matter who it is. juuuuuuuust a thought. only snagging point is probably boras. the only reason i see a glimmer of hope is that people arent going to be scratching and clawing to give him a 5-6 yr deal based on last yr.

What is more likely to happen, Jones finding his swing or you figuring out what the shift key is?


Tough call.

A.T. Money
11-20-2007, 06:26 PM
What is more likely to happen, Jones finding his swing or you figuring out what the shift key is?


Tough call.

LOL.

thedudeabides
11-20-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm guessing this is what the Rangers felt they had to do to have a shot at him. I hope he feels more comfortable with the Sox. If not, there are other options. That is too long of a contract. I think 5 years may be too long, but I can live with it.

DickAllen72
11-20-2007, 06:35 PM
Give him seven years for all I care. Just as long as we have him here near his prime for the next three years. That's all I'm concerned with.

I've been commenting for years on this site how I would love to see Hunter on the Sox and how those Sox fans that claim they hate him now would love him if he were on the Sox. I hope KW makes it happen.

Lip Man 1
11-20-2007, 06:42 PM
From White Sox.com:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071120&content_id=2305033&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

pmck003
11-20-2007, 06:44 PM
if that's the case, i wouldnt mind trying a 3 yr deal with andruw. he should come back with a vengeance to get his numbers up to where they should be, and he should still be in line for another big contract if he does well.

All I've read about him says he has plenty of talent but not much of a work ethic. Hard to say if he will age well or regain what he had at all if his work ethic is bad.

gogosox16
11-20-2007, 06:51 PM
Im predicting on November 26th, 2007 the Chicago Whitesox sign CF Free agent Torri Hunter to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal with a 6th year player option for 16 mill and a team buy out of 3 mil.

Thome25
11-20-2007, 06:53 PM
Im predicting on November 26th, 2007 the Chicago Whitesox sign CF Free agent Torri Hunter to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal with a 6th year player option for 16 mill and a team buy out of 3 mil.


Whoa 18mil per? That's too high. The money could be better spent elsewhere IF the bidding goes that high.

gogosox16
11-20-2007, 06:56 PM
Whoa 18mil per? That's too high. The money could be better spent elsewhere IF the bidding goes that high.
Rowand will get 14-16 mill a year most likely and I would pay a couple more mil a year for Torri over Rowand in a second

gr8mexico
11-20-2007, 07:15 PM
I still cant understand why in the hell can the Sox go after Andruw Jones. Sign Jones for 2 years with incentives. Andruw Jones is a way better player and 2 years younger.

Sockinchisox
11-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Isn't this old? Olney reported the 6 yr, 90 mil contract a week ago.

And Dallas papers said only a 5 yr contract was discussed, I don't know who to believe.

Brian26
11-20-2007, 07:59 PM
Im predicting on November 26th, 2007 the Chicago Whitesox sign CF Free agent Torri Hunter to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal with a 6th year player option for 16 mill and a team buy out of 3 mil.

Considering all of the players that have left the White Sox over the years because of money (from Zisk and Gamble to Steve Kemp to Black Jack & Alex to Ventura, Mags and even big Frank), there is some sort of sad irony in it all, if this indeed becomes fact, that the Sox would offer the richest prize in their franchise history to a ****ing 32-year old Minnesota Twin that's been beating their brains in for the past decade.

Jurr
11-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Considering all of the players that have left the White Sox over the years because of money (from Zisk and Gamble to Steve Kemp to Black Jack & Alex to Ventura, Mags and even big Frank), there is some sort of sad irony in it all, if this indeed becomes fact, that the Sox would offer the richest prize in their franchise history to a ****ing 32-year old Minnesota Twin that's been beating their brains in for the past decade.
I don't know about the money side of it, but bringing on a certain catcher that beat their brains in for years led to some magical things.

If Torii ends up going to Texas because of ONE guaranteed year (which he would never play out in TX anyway because he would be trading deadline bait within a year), his head's in the wrong place.

Jermaine Dye took less money to go to Chicago, and he hoisted a World Series MVP trophy as a result. Torii seems like one helluva gamer. If he wants to play in a wasteland like Texas for the "rest of his career", that's on him.
I still have a feeling that the Sox are going to pick him up. I just hope they save enough money to help in other areas.

KRS1
11-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Im predicting on November 26th, 2007 the Chicago Whitesox sign CF Free agent Torri Hunter to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal with a 6th year player option for 16 mill and a team buy out of 3 mil.

Wow. People are nuts. Torii isn't worth the 15mm a year he's likely to get, and now people think that he is worth 18mm. I knew the Torii slurpfest going on here was getting a little out of hand, but this is just crazy. That is elite player money, and I don't care how you put it, Torii is not an elite player. I already find it hard to swallow that we may be on the hook for 15mm when Torii is 38.

upperdeckusc
11-20-2007, 08:11 PM
What is more likely to happen, Jones finding his swing or you figuring out what the shift key is?


Tough call.

another ******** comment that has nothing to do with adding anything of substance to the conversation....saw that coming. piece of work, i tell ya.

if you require posts to have capital letters, put it in the "things every wsi member should know" area. if not, then Blow Me

p.s.........found the Shift key

Paulwny
11-20-2007, 08:13 PM
If Torii ends up going to Texas because of ONE guaranteed year (which he would never play out in TX anyway because he would be trading deadline bait within a year), his head's in the wrong place.



Unless, he also wants and gets a "no-trade" clause.

KRS1
11-20-2007, 08:13 PM
UH-OH! I would like to say it was nice knowing you upperdeck, but it really wasn't.

ndgt10
11-20-2007, 08:27 PM
Rowand time :(:

Hunter :angry:

WizardsofOzzie
11-20-2007, 08:30 PM
Wowzaaa, people can get nutty over the winter! :o:

Jurr
11-20-2007, 08:31 PM
Rowand time :(:

Hunter :angry:
:?:

If people think Torii Hunter is going to get more than he deserves in the free agent market, wait 'til Rowand cashes in.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-20-2007, 08:43 PM
I still think he's going with the Sox. It seems we'll find out shortly.

So do I. IMO the only reason he has to sign with Texas is its location and maybe more $$$. Hopefully Kenny can work some of his magic.

Red Barchetta
11-20-2007, 09:28 PM
Rowand will get 14-16 mill a year most likely and I would pay a couple more mil a year for Torri over Rowand in a second

Guys, really let this sink in. $14M/year to play baseball?! I remember when Dave Winfield scored his $1M/year contract. $14M a year to play professional baseball. They feed you, fly you around in a private plane, you stay at the best hotels and enjoy visiting the best cities this great country (and Canada if you play in the AL) has to offer. Plus, you have access to best sports training facilities, trainers and dieticians. Plus you get $14M!!!!

:?:

Taliesinrk
11-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Wow.. I'm lost. Where is Andruw Jones? The prices that we're talking about here are Frank Thomas in his prime prices. That is Pujols money we're talking about here. I mean think about how much money we'd save by signing Jones. Last year he stepped up defensively, hit 26 HRs and drove in 94!!!!! I realize he only hit just over .220, but he doesnt do that often!! and think of the line-up. WOW!!! In case you wanted more, he is 2 yrs younger (I think) than Torii. How can we not sign him to a 3 year deal, and then go get a primo lead-off hitter via trade/ cash?!?!?!?

FedEx227
11-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Guys, really let this sink in. $14M/year to play baseball?! I remember when Dave Winfield scored his $1M/year contract. $14M a year to play professional baseball. They feed you, fly you around in a private plane, you stay at the best hotels and enjoy visiting the best cities this great country (and Canada if you play in the AL) has to offer. Plus, you have access to best sports training facilities, trainers and dieticians. Plus you get $14M!!!!

:?:

Want them to spot getting paid?

Don't watch any games, don't go to any games, don't buy any merchandise, don't subscribe to MLB.TV. It's that simple.

I'd rather the players get it than the owners.

Domeshot17
11-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Guys, really let this sink in. $14M/year to play baseball?! I remember when Dave Winfield scored his $1M/year contract. $14M a year to play professional baseball. They feed you, fly you around in a private plane, you stay at the best hotels and enjoy visiting the best cities this great country (and Canada if you play in the AL) has to offer. Plus, you have access to best sports training facilities, trainers and dieticians. Plus you get $14M!!!!

:?:

Lets also be fair

You have to train year round, if you get fat it shows, you have to watch what you eat, spend constant time away from your family. If you are good everything you do and everything about family is in the media. If you struggle you get boo'd and called out and if you are just average your career is short. If you are the best you can play for 15-20 years. If you were really good in high school you probably didnt go to college so unless you were a stud landing a corporate job or broadcasting might be tough. You get hurt you can look forward to a fast recovery because you have to work even harder, and if you dont recover fast enough you are out of a job. You can be a hero one day and unemployed next.

Its not like these guys have the easiest laziest life ever.

FedEx227
11-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Wow.. I'm lost. Where is Andruw Jones? The prices that we're talking about here are Frank Thomas in his prime prices. That is Pujols money we're talking about here. I mean think about how much money we'd save by signing Jones. Last year he stepped up defensively, hit 26 HRs and drove in 94!!!!! I realize he only hit just over .220, but he doesnt do that often!! and think of the line-up. WOW!!! In case you wanted more, he is 2 yrs younger (I think) than Torii. How can we not sign him to a 3 year deal, and then go get a primo lead-off hitter via trade/ cash?!?!?!?

Do yourself a favor...

watch a couple of Braves games.

And look at Jones' AVG/OBP with RISP as well as his Zone-Rating.

Lip Man 1
11-20-2007, 09:43 PM
Tail:

Two words for you...Jones' agent is: SCOTT BORAS.

Who today said he would not let Jones' play for a 'one year' deal to prove himself and go through the process agin.

Last I heard (and this may have changed) Boras was asking for 100 million for him.

Also regarding the money for guys like Hunter and Rowand compared to Thomas it's a different time. Things have changed, owners are flush with cash and the market isn't going to "correct" itself at least not this year (again).

Lip

Taliesinrk
11-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Do yourself a favor...

watch a couple of Braves games.

And look at Jones' AVG/OBP with RISP as well as his Zone-Rating.


Unfortunately, I haven't watched Braves game lately. All I know is that I have watched him play CF more shallow than pretty much anyone I've ever seen, and he's damn good at it too. I'm just a defense first guy, I guess.

So my question is: Is the stuff you refer to just last year, or career numbers? I mean, our guys looked pretty bad offensively last year too. I don't know - I admittedly am rather ignorant about Jones as a whole in comparison to Rowand/Hunter, but I just am having a tough time justifying paying those 2 15 mil/year for 5 yrs if we could get Jones at 3/36.

Below, Lip said Borass has said he's looking for 100 mil for Jones... really? If so, I guess I'm just talking out of somewhere else, but I also read that 14 out of 15 GMs said they'd take Hunter over Jones and the 15th said they couldn't decide. From what I have seen, I really don't think they're that much different, but if that perception does exist, then we won't be talking about a 5 yr/90 mil contract for Jones. If I'm way off base here, feel free to correct me.

Oblong
11-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Andrew Jones will be an old 31. In 11 full seasons he's only missed 50 games, in addition to all the playoff games through the years.

Maybe 2007 was just a blip year but I wouldn't be surprised if he's washed up. I'd give him a 3 year deal at the most. Of the available OFers, I'd put him a considerable notch below Hunter and Rowand.

FedEx227
11-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Unfortunately, I haven't watched Braves game lately. All I know is that I have watched him play CF more shallow than pretty much anyone I've ever seen, and he's damn good at it too. I'm just a defense first guy, I guess.

So my question is: Is the stuff you refer to just last year, or career numbers? I mean, our guys looked pretty bad offensively last year too. I don't know - I admittedly am rather ignorant about Jones as a whole in comparison to Rowand/Hunter, but I just am having a tough time justifying paying those 2 15 mil/year for 5 yrs if we could get Jones at 3/36.



I've never liked Jones. His offensive numbers are good, but he's pretty much what we already have. Strikeout or home-run mashers.

And unfortunately his defense has went down tremendously in the past couple of years that was my main point. 4-5 years ago his shallow play was fantastic, but a couple of years and pounds later he's nowhere near the defender he once was, no matter what FPCT% tells you. There's a reason he typically ranks near the bottom 1/3 every single year in Zone Rating.

Taliesinrk
11-20-2007, 10:05 PM
I've never liked Jones. His offensive numbers are good, but he's pretty much what we already have. Strikeout or home-run mashers.

And unfortunately his defense has went down tremendously in the past couple of years that was my main point. 4-5 years ago his shallow play was fantastic, but a couple of years and pounds later he's nowhere near the defender he once was, no matter what FPCT% tells you. There's a reason he typically ranks near the bottom 1/3 every single year in Zone Rating.

I think he lead CFs in put-outs last year (could be wrong)..

chaerulez
11-20-2007, 10:09 PM
I still cant understand why in the hell can the Sox go after Andruw Jones. Sign Jones for 2 years with incentives. Andruw Jones is a way better player and 2 years younger.

Andruw Jones can and will get a better deal than that.

Oblong
11-20-2007, 10:16 PM
I think Andrew Jones will be firing his agent too.

FedEx227
11-20-2007, 10:17 PM
I think he lead CFs in put-outs last year (could be wrong)..

He was actually sixth in the league in putouts among CF.

But it's bad to see his Zone Rating 16/18th. The only guys getting to fewer balls in the CF zone ~ Gary Matthews Jr and Bill Hall.

Bill Hall is a butcher out there.

Defensive stats are really tough to judge because they are still not perfected. But trust me, watch a couple games of Andruw Jones and if you are familiar with good/bad defense you'll see where Jones lies these days.

soxfanreggie
11-20-2007, 10:25 PM
I'd give him 5 years, $75 million with a mutual option for a $16 million 6th year that has a $2 million team buyout. Ultimately, it makes it a $77 million contract. If we decline the option and he's good enough to still play somewhere, then he'll get on with that team. If we decline the option and sign him to a lower contact, he can still play here. The thing about these 6 year deals, is the players just want more money. If you're good enough to still play, you'll be playing somewhere in the league.

If Texas offers 6 years, let him go there, use the money to sign Rowand and a FA pitcher. We should all remember though that the teams bidding on Hunter that don't get him will probably bid on Rowand too.

KRS1
11-20-2007, 11:14 PM
Andrew Jones will be an old 31.

Maybe 2007 was just a blip year but I wouldn't be surprised if he's washed up.


:rolling:

Yeah, he's totally washed up. Man that was one whole season ago when he hit 41 hr's 129 rbi's and 126 OPS+. Judging 31 year old baseball players on their last season is clearly the best indicator as to who he is, and where he is as a baseball player.

munchman33
11-20-2007, 11:20 PM
I don't think Kenny will go six years on Hunter. Nor do I believe he'll give Rowand $15 million+ per. And Andrew Jones isn't coming here so long as Boras is his agent.

Yep, it's time we all moved onto the inevitablility of that Corey Patterson signing. He's Kenny's type of signing. His stock couldn't be lower. :(:

dwalteroo
11-20-2007, 11:53 PM
I'm totally behind KW doing everything he can to get Torii, but 6 years at his age and at that kind of $$ is more than a pinch of insanity. Texas should have learned its lesson in overpaying for single players.

Oblong
11-21-2007, 12:07 AM
:rolling:

Yeah, he's totally washed up. Man that was one whole season ago when he hit 41 hr's 129 rbi's and 126 OPS+. Judging 31 year old baseball players on their last season is clearly the best indicator as to who he is, and where he is as a baseball player.

Nobody said it was the best indicator. Maybe you missed the two qualifiers in my comments. Next time argue a point that somebody actually makes.

oeo
11-21-2007, 12:28 AM
Im predicting on November 26th, 2007 the Chicago Whitesox sign CF Free agent Torri Hunter to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal with a 6th year player option for 16 mill and a team buy out of 3 mil.

I'm predicting you're going to be wrong then.
1)The Sox would never pay him that much.
2)The Sox usually do not give player options.

bumptious987
11-21-2007, 12:30 AM
If Hunter wants to play for the Sox for less money and have an OK shot at making the playoffs in '08, it will be for the five years the Sox supposedly offered. If Hunter wants whats best best for his family (the cash and location), he'll be playing for Texas next year.

I hope Hunter takes Texas's bloated offer. I don't want the Sox locking up $70+ on an old centerfielder that has little plate disclipline and declining defensive skills. More than half of AL CFers had a higher zone rating than Hunter. His contract will be an absolute albatross the second half of the contract (see Jose Contreras). The other options aren't the greatest, but they come at a better price.

KRS1
11-21-2007, 12:32 AM
Nobody said it was the best indicator. Maybe you missed the two qualifiers in my comments. Next time argue a point that somebody actually makes.

You said you wouldn't be surprised if he's washed up, and based that on the fact that he is 31 years old and his numbers from last season. I laughed at that, and added a little comment on why I laughed at it. Seems pretty straight forward.

SBSoxFan
11-21-2007, 01:14 AM
You can be a hero one day and unemployed next.


:pods:

"Word."

Goose
11-21-2007, 01:23 AM
A lot of people keep saying, if Torrii goes elsewhere, is that we can simply go in and get Rowand for cheaper. My question is, how do you just know that AR will still be available, and further how do you know that he will sign here for a discount?

gobears1987
11-21-2007, 01:47 AM
Given Hunter's comments about "wanting to win," I don't think Texas looms large on his RADAR screen.

HomeFish
11-21-2007, 02:54 AM
Given Hunter's comments about "wanting to win," I don't think Texas looms large on his RADAR screen.

2007 records:

TEX: 75-87
CHW: 72-90

Why would we have any advantage over Texas in this regard?

michned
11-21-2007, 03:13 AM
Given Hunter's comments about "wanting to win," I don't think Texas looms large on his RADAR screen.

Exactly. He has gone on and on about how the money isn't the most important thing, playing for a winner is. He seems sincere about it but imagine this Holiday weekend at home. I bet every one of his relatives will be in his ear about coming home to play. That's why I was hoping he would make his decision before Thanksgiving.

Never underestimate the guilt trip that family members lay upon pro athletes.

Jjav829
11-21-2007, 08:02 AM
At least five teams have made offers to Hunter. According to baseball sources, all are for five years, with the exception of the Rangers’ six-year offer

After finding this out, the Rangers immediately offered Hunter an 8-year deal worth $160 million. You know, just to be safe.

WizardsofOzzie
11-21-2007, 08:46 AM
2007 records:

TEX: 75-87
CHW: 72-90

Why would we have any advantage over Texas in this regard?
We have grinders :tongue:

soxwon
11-21-2007, 09:13 AM
who cares- he isnt gonna play for texas.
I predicted he be ours since september, and we are gonna get him.

ma-gaga
11-21-2007, 09:51 AM
Considering all of the players that have left the White Sox over the years because of money (from Zisk and Gamble to Steve Kemp to Black Jack & Alex to Ventura, Mags and even big Frank), there is some sort of sad irony in it all, if this indeed becomes fact, that the Sox would offer the richest prize in their franchise history to a ****ing 32-year old Minnesota Twin that's been beating their brains in for the past decade.

I love this. It's the "grass is always greener" theory. KW playing poker with Ozzie; 'Man, those MN Twins over there look good.' Let's sign them.


If Torii ends up going to Texas because of ONE guaranteed year (which he would never play out in TX anyway because he would be trading deadline bait within a year), his head's in the wrong place.
Hunter seems to compliment the Sox a lot in these articles which is a good thing. I think he does want to come here, but he is smart to play the field too.

Repeat after me: "Torii wants someone to 'show him the money.'" It's about the money with Torii. If you want to believe something else, you should know that I have a bridge for sale. I have to move it by the end of the year, so I'll give you a really really good deal.

Torii is a hell of an athlete, he had a career hitting year, he's a damn good center-fielder, he has a million dollar smile, he gives a great sound bite, BUT he is looking to be the #1 FA this year (ok, #2 behind A-Rod) and he is looking to get. paid.

After finding this out, the Rangers immediately offered Hunter an 8-year deal worth $160 million. You know, just to be safe.

It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't true. I truly expect Texas to give him $100m+, and be regretting it by 2009.

This is why a lot of Twins fans are fine to see him go. He's a good player, and probably their best offensive player last year. But the Twins made the right offer to him, which was a 3 year deal.

And the Twin Cities media loves it right now as well. Calling Pohlad cheap and all sorts of no brainer analysis that talk radio is famous for. It's easy to rail on the cheap owner. And the masses EAT it up; Like meatloaf. Like potato salad. Like cheap deli meats and cheeses... And Torii is such a good quote that now the media is also panicking because they'll have to do some actual work next year instead of relying on Torii to give them a quote.

It's quite sad really. :cool:

D. TODD
11-21-2007, 10:02 AM
Guys, really let this sink in. $14M/year to play baseball?! I remember when Dave Winfield scored his $1M/year contract. $14M a year to play professional baseball. They feed you, fly you around in a private plane, you stay at the best hotels and enjoy visiting the best cities this great country (and Canada if you play in the AL) has to offer. Plus, you have access to best sports training facilities, trainers and dieticians. Plus you get $14M!!!!

:?: And MLB is flush with cash, making BILLIONS in profit. Who do you want to get the money that these players/workers are bringing in in revenues, the billionare owners? They are getting paid proportionately to what their skills are bringing in, again MLB has never been in better shape financially overall.

wdelaney72
11-21-2007, 10:23 AM
There's an underlying point that ma-gaga has me thinking about.... and t's pretty simple.

If this isn't about the money for Torii, he would just stay put in Minny. This is about the money, and if the reports of Texas' offer are accurate, that's where Torii will play.

I was all about signing Torii, but I'd rather not do it on a five-year contract. I'm starting to hope Kenny looks elsewhere.

voodoochile
11-21-2007, 10:37 AM
I don't have a problem with the Sox offering a 6th year team option with a big enough buyout to allow TorIIII to make up the difference elsewhere ($5M) or one that kicks in automatically if TorIIII hits certain levels of AB or games played in years 4 & 5. That might work for both sides if TorIIII really wants to play here to be part of a winner.

If not then oh well, good luck in that Texas heat...

jenn2080
11-21-2007, 10:37 AM
I get the feeling that Torii is not going to be in White Sox uniform.

jabrch
11-21-2007, 10:40 AM
Given Hunter's comments about "wanting to win," I don't think Texas looms large on his RADAR screen.

I think he is completely full of crap. He's been talking for months (even when he was a Twin, on a team that was hoping to contend) about 10 teams he'd be happy to go to.

If Texas is offering 6/90, I'd guarantee they are a big dot on his radar.

I still can't help but think he is full of crap and looking for the biggest deal he can find, regardless of winning or not.

Red Barchetta
11-21-2007, 10:55 AM
Lets also be fair

You have to train year round, if you get fat it shows, you have to watch what you eat, spend constant time away from your family. If you are good everything you do and everything about family is in the media. If you struggle you get boo'd and called out and if you are just average your career is short. If you are the best you can play for 15-20 years. If you were really good in high school you probably didnt go to college so unless you were a stud landing a corporate job or broadcasting might be tough. You get hurt you can look forward to a fast recovery because you have to work even harder, and if you dont recover fast enough you are out of a job. You can be a hero one day and unemployed next.

Its not like these guys have the easiest laziest life ever.

That wasn't the point I was making. As fans, most of us have played the game at one point in our lives. I remember playing in a mens league where we had to pay to pay in order to cover the field and lighting costs and now we're looking at a professional level game where slightly above average outfielders are securing $14M/year to play the game most of us have played for free.

I'm not blasting the players or owners. They obviously deserve fair market value and the owners obviously can afford it. I agree being a professional athlete isn't easy and you're right, slip up (DUI, etc.) and it's front page news. However, I think most of us would give the pro MLB lifestyle a shot if given the opportunity.

You're also right that an injury could end your career, however with a $14M/5-year secured contract, I don't think any injured player will have to get a part time job at Home Depot to make ends meet.

Flight #24
11-21-2007, 10:58 AM
IMO it's going to come down to a Buehrle-like decision: If Toriiiii wants to play for the Sox org (given the teammates, City, etc) then he'll take the 5/$75 or so. If he wants more than the current offer (or doesn't believe in the Sox potential for next year as much), then he'll go elsewhere. I don't see the Sox doing 6 years or upping the salary significantly.

That said, I expect him to go elsewhere in the end. I have yet to see many instances of guys changing teams and taking less than the best offer. Dye was the one example and that was a unique case where he agreed to the deal prior to the other offer coming in.

So.....Rowand? I'm not thrilled with Jones unless he comes much cheaper. But absent those guys, I'm not thrilled with many of the other FAs either and I hate the thought of trading for an impact player given the dearth of position prospects in our system and what you'd have to give up.

ma-gaga
11-21-2007, 12:52 PM
The local sports talk radio station Web Guy has some contacts in the industry and offers up the following thought:

I talked to someone this morning I trust...he tells me the Dodgers are ready to offer Torii 6-yrs, 90 mil...the White Sox also have an offer on the table (don't know the numbers, but it's likely 5-yrs, 75-80 mil)...was also told Torii is using K.C. and Texas as leverage...I'm sure there's at least 1 other team in the mix... It's an unsubstantiated internet rumor, and it amounts to some guy walking through an airport overhearing Kenny's phone conversation, but I give this a little more weight than trying to sift through newspaper quotes. The White Sox biggest competition in the Torii Hunter "sweepstakes" is the big bad Dodgers.

:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
11-21-2007, 01:21 PM
There's no state income tax in Texas. That automatically makes whatever Texas offers even more lucrative.

Iwritecode
11-21-2007, 01:42 PM
2007 records:

TEX: 75-87
CHW: 72-90

Why would we have any advantage over Texas in this regard?

I can't believe I'm actually spelling this out for you...

Since 2000:

Sox
689 - 607 for a .532 winning pct.
2 playoff apperances
1 World Series Championship
1 season under .500

Rangers
610 - 686 for a .471 winning pct.
0 playoff apperances
5 last place finishes
1 season over .500

russ99
11-21-2007, 01:58 PM
Plus the Rangers dealt away their best player for a bunch of prospects at the deadline. They may play .500 ball, but even with Hunter I doubt the Rangers make the playoffs.

If Torii signs with Texas, it will be for 2 reasons, close to home and money...

Don't buy that winning team hype.

I hope the Sox get him, but that 6th year may be the sticking point. I think Jerry will be very competitive with salary, but that 6th year is a bit tough to stomach. If they won't give 6 years to Buerhle, Thomas or Ordoņez, why give it to Hunter??

spiffie
11-21-2007, 02:03 PM
I can't believe I'm actually spelling this out for you...

Since 2000:

Sox
689 - 607 for a .532 winning pct.
2 playoff apperances
1 World Series Championship
1 season under .500

Rangers
610 - 686 for a .471 winning pct.
0 playoff apperances
5 last place finishes
1 season over .500

Rockies
603 - 694 for a .465 winning pct.
0 playoff appearances
2 last place finishes
2 seasons over .500

Which team has the brighter future next year and going forward, Colorado or the Sox? And more importantly, does that assessment have anything to do with those numbers above?

I'm not suggesting Texas is more apt to win next year than the Sox, but telling me what the Rangers did in 2001 is not really going to tell me anything about what they might do in 2011.

Iwritecode
11-21-2007, 02:09 PM
Rockies
603 - 694 for a .465 winning pct.
0 playoff appearances
2 last place finishes
2 seasons over .500

Which team has the brighter future next year and going forward, Colorado or the Sox? And more importantly, does that assessment have anything to do with those numbers above?

I'm not suggesting Texas is more apt to win next year than the Sox, but telling me what the Rangers did in 2001 is not really going to tell me anything about what they might do in 2011.

I'm just saying that the Sox have better history of winning than the Rangers. Past success doesn't always predict future success but it's usually a pretty good indicator.

russ99
11-21-2007, 02:14 PM
Just read that story on White Sox.com and I'm encouraged about our chances to land Torii.

That quote ripping Cubs fans was pretty sweet. Essentially he was asked about LaTroy and Jacque's rough time in Chicago
and he said those were different players and situations, than said "And I'm not with the Cubs. It's the White Sox. That's totally different."

:D:

Noneck
11-21-2007, 02:29 PM
I think he is completely full of crap. He's been talking for months (even when he was a Twin, on a team that was hoping to contend) about 10 teams he'd be happy to go to.

If Texas is offering 6/90, I'd guarantee they are a big dot on his radar.

I still can't help but think he is full of crap and looking for the biggest deal he can find, regardless of winning or not.

After reading your assumption, I had one also. Maybe the Sox are full of crap also, pumping the media about how hard they are trying for Hunter, knowing they will be outbid. It's a good PR move, telling the fans "Oh we tried but couldn't compete with whoever gets him."

I hope both you and I are wrong tho.

jabrch
11-21-2007, 02:53 PM
After reading your assumption, I had one also. Maybe the Sox are full of crap also, pumping the media about how hard they are trying for Hunter, knowing they will be outbid. It's a good PR move, telling the fans "Oh we tried but couldn't compete with whoever gets him."

I hope both you and I are wrong tho.

I think the Sox set a limit - at 5 years (at least I hope they did - I'd prefer four - but we'd have no chance at getting him to take that) and decided to leave it up to Hunter to decide. Yes - they were fairly sure someone would offer the extra year - but they are putting it in Hunter's hands to decide if that one year makes it worth being a Texas Ranger.

Either way - I don't like Hunter much, so if we don't get him, I won't shed a tear. If we don't give him 6/90, I think that would be better than giving him that deal even if it meant a sub-optimal CF situation in 2008.

Noneck
11-21-2007, 02:59 PM
I think the Sox set a limit - at 5 years (at least I hope they did - I'd prefer four - but we'd have no chance at getting him to take that) and decided to leave it up to Hunter to decide. Yes - they were fairly sure someone would offer the extra year - but they are putting it in Hunter's hands to decide if that one year makes it worth being a Texas Ranger.

Either way - I don't like Hunter much, so if we don't get him, I won't shed a tear. If we don't give him 6/90, I think that would be better than giving him that deal even if it meant a sub-optimal CF situation in 2008.

I'm not crazy about him either and would give no one a 6 yr deal. But he sure beats anything we currently have. I just don't want the old BS to come from the Sox "We tried" and then put that money in the back pocket.

Foulke You
11-21-2007, 03:02 PM
What I don't really understand is why the Rangers are so hot to sign Hunter? He isn't a single missing piece to their puzzle. Hunter won't turn the Rangers into AL West contenders with that pitching staff of theirs so is this just Hicks going on a spending spree on a top free agent again? If they needed a CF so badly, why did they let Matthews Jr. walk away? I guess I'm just a bit puzzled.

I realize the Sox had an awful '07 season for reasons discussed here ad nauseum. (injuries, bad bullpen, etc) However, the Sox are only 1 year removed from a 90 win season and 2 years removed from a World Series Championship. The core is still there. A player like Torii Hunter could be a huge difference maker in '08 for the White Sox but unlikely to change the fate of the Texas Rangers.

Oh, and we have A-Rod and Bor-ass to thank for the Rangers having all this extra cash to spend now. If A-Rod didn't opt out, it is likely that Hunter could have already signed his White Sox contract.

voodoochile
11-21-2007, 03:27 PM
That wasn't the point I was making. As fans, most of us have played the game at one point in our lives. I remember playing in a mens league where we had to pay to pay in order to cover the field and lighting costs and now we're looking at a professional level game where slightly above average outfielders are securing $14M/year to play the game most of us have played for free.

I'm not blasting the players or owners. They obviously deserve fair market value and the owners obviously can afford it. I agree being a professional athlete isn't easy and you're right, slip up (DUI, etc.) and it's front page news. However, I think most of us would give the pro MLB lifestyle a shot if given the opportunity.

You're also right that an injury could end your career, however with a $14M/5-year secured contract, I don't think any injured player will have to get a part time job at Home Depot to make ends meet.

Okay let's evaluate TorIIII's worth as a slightly above average OF...

That means he's in the top 40 or so people in the world at doing what he does. In addition, he is an entertainment industry which in the last year grossed over $6,000,000,000 in revenues.

Even if you divide that in half and give half to the players and half to the owners (something most people would call a bad split) and then divided the 3B equally among all 750 MLB player, TorIIII would be due roughly $4M next season.

Now everyone knows that not all players are eqaully paid and in reality, TorIIII is in the top 5 CF currently playing the game (rough estimate, but it seems fair). So in reality, he is easily due double or triple the $4M and by the time you get into the bidding war - because owners don't expect to take home half and because in reality that $6B isn't divided equally among all the teams so certain teams can easily afford to pay higher salaries than others and it's not hard to get to $15M at all.

Above average MLB player is worth a lot of money in today's market, especially when it's a guy who produces both offensively and defensively at a position that is traditionally a defensive position.

jabrch
11-21-2007, 03:27 PM
I'm not crazy about him either and would give no one a 6 yr deal. But he sure beats anything we currently have. I just don't want the old BS to come from the Sox "We tried" and then put that money in the back pocket.


I agree that he is better than what we have - but I don't agree that he is better than 6/90 + Owens/Sweeney/BA. I believe we can do better with nearly 100mm than Torii Hunter.

Noneck
11-21-2007, 03:40 PM
I agree that he is better than what we have - but I don't agree that he is better than 6/90 + Owens/Sweeney/BA. I believe we can do better with nearly 100mm than Torii Hunter.
I agree but my point is, if the money doesn't go to Hunter it will be put in the piggy bank.

jabrch
11-21-2007, 03:46 PM
I agree but my point is, if the money doesn't go to Hunter it will be put in the piggy bank.

I think the money will get reinvested elsewhere in payroll - not in a "piggy bank". Committing 6/90 to him will mean we won't have that money to spend on other FA, this year or next year. I'd rather hold off and not misspend that money than do this.

Noneck
11-21-2007, 03:57 PM
I think the money will get reinvested elsewhere in payroll - not in a "piggy bank". Committing 6/90 to him will mean we won't have that money to spend on other FA, this year or next year. I'd rather hold off and not misspend that money than do this.


You are less cynical about management than I am and I sure hope you are right. And yea, 90mm is a HUGE commitment! A commitment like that can really tank a team.

Gammons Peter
11-21-2007, 04:23 PM
I can't believe people really want this guy at that kind of contract. I have never considered him to be more than slightly above average offensively. Did you ever fear him when he came to the plate as a Twink? Yeah he is great on D, but his best days are behind him (or they will be, long before a 5,6 or 7 year deal runs out)

DickAllen72
11-21-2007, 05:10 PM
I think the Sox set a limit - at 5 years (at least I hope they did - I'd prefer four - but we'd have no chance at getting him to take that) and decided to leave it up to Hunter to decide. Yes - they were fairly sure someone would offer the extra year - but they are putting it in Hunter's hands to decide if that one year makes it worth being a Texas Ranger.

Either way - I don't like Hunter much, so if we don't get him, I won't shed a tear. If we don't give him 6/90, I think that would be better than giving him that deal even if it meant a sub-optimal CF situation in 2008.

If the money (meaning the yearly salary) is not an issue, who cares about the extra year? If the Sox think Hunter can be a major difference maker for the next few years (which they apparently do if they are willing to pay him $15M/yr.) who cares about paying him for one extra year in 2013? Who cares about 2013?

It's not like the Sox do this all the time. By 2013 Thome, Dye, Konerko, Contreras, etc. will all be off the books anyway, and $15M in 2013 dollars won't mean as much as it does in 2008 dollars anyway. JR may not even be around in 2013. Heck, none of us may be around by then.