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PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Who is the BIGGEST villain for causing MLB's steroids scandal?

Obviously there are lots of individuals who are culpable for creating what today has caused the biggest credibility problem in MLB history and simultaneously made Barry Bonds into the biggest pariah in sports. Who is the most culpable?

Enquiring minds want to know.
:cool:

MUsoxfan
11-17-2007, 04:04 PM
I'd have to say a toss-up between the former Cardinal Clown and the former Cubbie Clown.

MUsoxfan
11-17-2007, 04:08 PM
And Selig. This exploded under his watch

jdm2662
11-17-2007, 04:10 PM
I have to pick one. That's not fair. :redneck

I feel when a person in authority is aware of breaking the rules and nothing is done, he/she should be blamed. I'm a referee. I've come across quite a bit of hacks. However, if I allow him/her to continue to foul, etc, it's my fault for allowing it to get out of hand. If someone is allowed to get away with something, especially if it gives them an unfair advantage, he/she is going to continue to do it.

So, my vote goes to Bud Selig, but Donny Boy Fehr is a close second. Selig didn't make it issue until well after baseball recovered from the strike. Donny Boy wouldn't agree to actual testing until he made an ass out of himself in front of Congress.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 04:26 PM
I have to go with Tony LaRussa for several reasons. Not even Selig is as EVIL as LaRussa has proven himself to be.

1.) It was definitely inside LaRussa's clubhouse that Canseco began juicing both himself and what had been a skinny collegian named Mark McGwire. No way is this is going on for years inside LaRussa's clubhouse without his knowledge and approval. He was in a position of authority to stop it but he did nothing. In fact he is still unapologetic even to this very day.

2.) It was inside the St. Louis clubhouse that LaRussa allowed Mark McGwire's juicing to continue and LaRussa still defends the guy even to this very day.

3.) Unlike Canseco, LaRussa is completely unapologetic for any evil his own behavior has created. At least Canseco has publicly admitted steroids shouldn't be used by teenagers and others trying to aspire to the big leagues.

4.) Beyond all reasonable doubt, it is LaRussa who is still trashing Canseco's credibility even as plenty of cooberating evidence surfaces proving Canseco's version of events were truthful all along.

5.) While Selig at least attempts to get ahead of the scandal by launching an investigation, it is LaRussa who merely denies and coddles the biggest culprits -- the better to preserve his own reputation.

I would also rank Don Fehr ahead of Selig in the biggest villain role since I know MLB would have wanted more stringent drug enforcement policies if the union hadn't been actively seeking to hide the offenders in its own ranks.

Overall the biggest villain is LaRussa, not just for what he has done, but the way he has stubbornly dug in his heels and proven himself to be a CLASS-1 ******* for defending the crooked and trashing those telling the truth. His behavior is unconscionable!
:o:

fquaye149
11-17-2007, 04:30 PM
I think they're all a bunch of douchebags.

The level of "guilt" that separates the likes of Selig, McGwire, Canseco, LaRussa, and even, to a lesser extent Bonds and Sosa and Palmeiro and Caminitti and Giambi and Luis Gonzalez (probably) and Bret Boone (almost certainly) is so ****ing shades of grey that it's almost not even worth discussing.

They're all a bunch of cynical sons of *****es, profitting off of turning tricks off the innocence of the nation, prostituting our valued national pasttime for their own edification. **** them all equally.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 04:40 PM
**** them all equally.

Certainly ONE of them is the biggest villain of them all. Take your pick.

Nobody is claiming they're not "douche bags" but ultimately one of them is the biggest douche bag of them all.

For my money it's LaRussa, not so much for what he has done the last 20 years, but mostly because of what he REFUSES to admit to. There is nothing about his behavior that anyone can defend. And he was there right from the very beginning...

fquaye149
11-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Certainly ONE of them is the biggest villain of them all. Take your pick.

Nobody is claiming they're not "douche bags" but ultimately one of them is the biggest douche bag of them all.

For my money it's LaRussa, not so much for what he has done the last 20 years, but mostly because of what he REFUSES to admit to. There is nothing about his behavior that anyone can defend.

I dunno...the way I look at the steroids scandal is this:

I'm a grad assistant at some sort of college where I teach a section of Composition. I don't want people to plagiarize. I don't want to look for people plagiarizing. I hope I never catch a student plagiarizing. However, when I catch them, it becomes a big headache and there's a lot of fingerpointing, and frankly I don't really care who's "most" to blame--them, the roommate who let them look at their paper, their mom for putting pressure on them to succeed. I'm just annoyed I have to deal with the bull****.

Same thing with steroids. Growing up in the 90's I just wanted to watch baseball. I didn't want to have to make a decision who's most to blame, I didn't want to have to have an opinion on steroids. I just wanted to watch baseball. However, it happened, and it's a big ****ing headache, and I don't really care who's slightly more guilty than the others. If I had to choose, I'd say the person IN CHARGE who allows something to happen and then hypocritically comes out and wishy-washily steps out against it is the most to blame...but really, he's not. Everyone knows what's illegal and legal and any one of those people could have stopped their involvement in the steroids issue, and didn't, so **** them. They tainted a big ****ing piece of baseball for me, and I have to reconcile what they have done legitimately with what they cheated for, and that's annoying and so **** them all equally.

:shrug:

voodoochile
11-17-2007, 04:44 PM
And Selig. This exploded under his watch

I agree and one could argue he encouraged it by turning a blind eye to it even when McGwire was caught with Andro. They used the artificially created HR races to "save baseball".

Root cause? Who knows, but Selig and his cronies allowed it to fester for monetary reasons. The door is finally closing, but someone has made off with the horses, cows, sheep, pigs and even a dog or two.

Root cause is always motivated by greed. Did Larussa benefit as much as Canseco and McGwire? No, so I cannot blame him entirely. Yes, I am sure he knew what was going on, but since it wasn't against the rules why should he give a crap? It's Selig and others who got informed by the FBI back in the early 90's they had a growing PED problem and nothing was done about it. In fact it didn't even make the bargaining sessions until Canseco's book came out.

Put the blame right where it belongs. Selig and the owners, but since Selig is the one who represents the owners he takes the fall...

WhiteSox5187
11-17-2007, 04:47 PM
Fehr followed closely by Selig...I don't know what the hell Tony is doing up there. He was the manager of a team when two guys were taking steroids, if it winds up that a couple of Sox players were taking 'roids that does that make Kenny a bad GM?

fquaye149
11-17-2007, 04:49 PM
I agree and one could argue he encouraged it by turning a blind eye to it even when McGwire was caught with Andro. They used the artificially created HR races to "save baseball".

Root cause? Who knows, but Selig and his cronies allowed it to fester for monetary reasons. The door is finally closing, but someone has made off with the horses, cows, sheep, pigs and even a dog or two.

Root cause is always motivated by greed. Did Larussa benefit as much as Canseco and McGwire? No, so I cannot blame him entirely. Yes, I am sure he knew what was going on, but since it wasn't against the rules why should he give a crap? It's Selig and others who got informed by the FBI back in the early 90's they had a growing PED problem and nothing was done about it. In fact it didn't even make the bargaining sessions until Canseco's book came out.

Put the blame right where it belongs. Selig and the owners, but since Selig is the one who represents the owners he takes the fall...

Ask West about how LaRussa benefitted from encouraging steroids.

I had an epic "discussion" with him at one point about LaRussa's relative merits as a manager...

Daver
11-17-2007, 04:53 PM
Ask West about how LaRussa benefitted from encouraging steroids.

I had an epic "discussion" with him at one point about LaRussa's relative merits as a manager...

Larussa played it into making himself one the best paid managers in MLB.

Larussa is by far the biggest culprit in this mess.

fquaye149
11-17-2007, 04:56 PM
Larussa played it into making himself one the best paid managers in MLB.


my thoughts exactly--everyone in this dirty biz profitted big time

getonbckthr
11-17-2007, 04:57 PM
I agree and one could argue he encouraged it by turning a blind eye to it even when McGwire was caught with Andro. They used the artificially created HR races to "save baseball".

Root cause? Who knows, but Selig and his cronies allowed it to fester for monetary reasons. The door is finally closing, but someone has made off with the horses, cows, sheep, pigs and even a dog or two.

Root cause is always motivated by greed. Did Larussa benefit as much as Canseco and McGwire? No, so I cannot blame him entirely. Yes, I am sure he knew what was going on, but since it wasn't against the rules why should he give a crap? It's Selig and others who got informed by the FBI back in the early 90's they had a growing PED problem and nothing was done about it. In fact it didn't even make the bargaining sessions until Canseco's book came out.

Put the blame right where it belongs. Selig and the owners, but since Selig is the one who represents the owners he takes the fall...
Wasn't Andro legal when Mcgwire was caught with it?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't know what the hell Tony is doing up there.

It's LaRussa's clubhouse. He is in authority over his players and responsible for the production of his roster.

If you want to excuse his role in being the manager of baseball's original steroid abusers, the "Bash Brothers" Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire, then you certainly have trouble defending his subsequent behavior where he traded for McGwire, coddled McGwire, and even defends McGwire after McGwire sits in front of Congress and acts like a Mob defendant.

LaRussa's hands are filthy and just like any other contemptible jerk, he refuses to acknowledge ANY responsibility for making things right.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 05:05 PM
Wasn't Andro legal when Mcgwire was caught with it?

Andro was nothing but a cover for the other **** McGwire had been shooting up for years starting with butt cheek pokes administered by the Dark Prince of Steroids, Jose Canseco himself, inside the clubhouse johns in Oakland back in the 80s.