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the1tab
11-16-2007, 11:58 AM
I've been wondering for the last couple days...

With the Yankees ownership meeting with ARod behind Scott Boras' back and getting a deal done after Mr Boras got the official cold shoulder at the GM meetings, does this signal a paradigm shift in baseball that the uber-agent can no longer hold teams by the pen until the ink is dry on the contract? Could the Yankees and ARod have actually done something GOOD for baseball?

I'm not sure if there was collusion involved or if Boras will whine about it when ARod drops him as his agent, but it certainly seems to me that this is a big step towards teams and players working to get deals done despite what the spin machine that Boras has been tells the players they're "worth."

Any thoughts?

Fenway
11-16-2007, 12:01 PM
Boras using what turned out to be the final game of the World Series to say that A-Rod was opting out angered most in baseball. Every dog has its day...

I get the feeling A-Rod didn't know he opted out until he heard it on FOX

spawn
11-16-2007, 12:05 PM
Boras won't be going anywhere soon. Yes, the entire ordeal was a gigantic embarrassment for him. The problem with this "embarassment" is his client still got $275 million over 10 years, which is the richest contract in sports history. He still gets to pocket $27.5 million of this. Say what you will about him, the guy still gets top dollar for his clients, whether they deserve it or not. Players will still want him as their agent. The only plus side to this is, hopefully, when Boras approaches a team saying he has a better contract offer from another team, the former team makes him show this supposedly better "offer". The mistake Boras made was trying to run over the Yankees, the only team with the capital to pay A-Rod anything close to what he was asking. The Yankees simply called him on it.

jabrch
11-16-2007, 12:08 PM
Boras got his client the second largest deal in the history of baseball. He made the Yankees come back to the table after saying they were done with him.

He is still the single most powerful man in baseball.

Palehose13
11-16-2007, 12:10 PM
It is an interesting thought.

If teams decide to give the cold shoulder to Boras and his players, where would they go? It was odd to have the Yankees be the ones to do it, but sometimes I think Boras is more evil than the Yankees.

DumpJerry
11-16-2007, 12:11 PM
It is not the end of Borass. Even if it was, it would not change anything. Until the human emotion known as greed is removed from our psyches, there will always be an agent willing to do what he does because there are always young men who play baseball who are willing to pursue the top dollar at all cost. Borass is not the only one who does it, he is just the most famous.

SoxyStu
11-16-2007, 12:14 PM
I've been wondering for the last couple days...

With the Yankees ownership meeting with ARod behind Scott Boras' back and getting a deal done after Mr Boras got the official cold shoulder at the GM meetings, does this signal a paradigm shift in baseball that the uber-agent can no longer hold teams by the pen until the ink is dry on the contract? Could the Yankees and ARod have actually done something GOOD for baseball?

I'm not sure if there was collusion involved or if Boras will whine about it when ARod drops him as his agent, but it certainly seems to me that this is a big step towards teams and players working to get deals done despite what the spin machine that Boras has been tells the players they're "worth."

Any thoughts?

I don't think anything will come of this. I believe Boras will be drawing up the contract. If A-Rod was really pissed off at Boras and did this whole negotiation himself, then why wouldn't he have fired him and rob Boras of his monster commission? Boras wouldn't deserve it.

Even the fact that A-Rod opted out during game 4 will blow over. Boras took the wrap for it, apologized for it, it's over. The bridge is already built, walk over it.

With the market as it is, a good negotiator will always win, no matter what his or her name is. We'll see as this offseason continues and the contracts that are signed.

I am not optimistic this Boras/A-Rod/Yankee crap changes a damn thing.

the1tab
11-16-2007, 12:15 PM
If teams decide to give the cold shoulder to Boras and his players, where would they go? It was odd to have the Yankees be the ones to do it, but sometimes I think Boras is more evil than the Yankees.

I agree that Boras still has power, but the pure fact that a team (albeit the Yankees) had the intestinal fortitude to call him on his hype machine, and they won, in my mind calls into question future validity of his hype machine. There's a crack in the formerly bulletproof glass that surrounds Boras and his clients, and everyone else's fresh air is going to seep into the box and wake his clients up. Yes, he gets top dollar and yes, ARod just got the biggest contract in baseball history. But Boras didn't negotiate it and, compared to what he said he could get, he left money on the table.

I'm thrilled that Boras is sinking like the Titanic. Maybe we can throw Drew Rosenhaus on there w/ him.

drewcifer
11-16-2007, 12:23 PM
I agree that Boras still has power, but the pure fact that a team (albeit the Yankees) had the intestinal fortitude to call him on his hype machine, and they won, in my mind calls into question future validity of his hype machine. There's a crack in the formerly bulletproof glass that surrounds Boras and his clients, and everyone else's fresh air is going to seep into the box and wake his clients up. Yes, he gets top dollar and yes, ARod just got the biggest contract in baseball history. But Boras didn't negotiate it and, compared to what he said he could get, he left money on the table.

I'm thrilled that Boras is sinking like the Titanic. Maybe we can throw Drew Rosenhaus on there w/ him.

I'm lost. How is he tanking? How was he called out? And if he was because Yankees ownership said they were done with A-Rod after opting out, he still stands to gain from the 180 pulled (whether you want to believe A-Rod did it on his own or not).

jabrch is dead on, IMO.

The Yankees lost their subsidy, supposedly A-Rod is making up the difference (most likely by signing at $275 instead of $295), but he got 10 years for his client at $27.5M; effectively setting him for the rest of his career.

Boras wins.

Madvora
11-16-2007, 12:26 PM
It's up to the GMs and athletes if he goes away. So far the Sox don't like to deal with him and the Yankees have just shut him out. It should only take a few more GMs to jump on board before his downfall.
Think about being a player looking for a new agent. You can either have your option of going to all 30 teams, or having an agent where your options are limited. If teams actually shut out Boras clients like Sox do, then people aren't going to want to sign with him anymore.

Palehose13
11-16-2007, 12:32 PM
It's up to the GMs and athletes if he goes away. So far the Sox don't like to deal with him and the Yankees have just shut him out. It should only take a few more GMs to jump on board before his downfall.
Think about being a player looking for a new agent. You can either have your option of going to all 30 teams, or having an agent where your options are limited. If teams actually shut out Boras clients like Sox do, then people aren't going to want to sign with him anymore.

Exactly! Especially if the Yankees and Red Sox would shut him out.

Soxfest
11-16-2007, 01:14 PM
Coachroaches survive so will Bor-ASS!

Oblong
11-16-2007, 01:18 PM
He still gets to pocket $27.5 million of this.

Just to clarify, according to this (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath?currentPage=4), his commission is 5%.

He takes a five-per-cent commission on the salaries of his major-league clients, which this year total two hundred and ninety-five million dollars, and on the signing bonuses of his prospects (but not on their paltry minor-league wages).

Still not shabby.

eriqjaffe
11-16-2007, 01:38 PM
Every time you stop Boras, you simply create more Borases.

wilburaga
11-16-2007, 01:41 PM
According to today's NY Times A-Rod has circumvented Boras before. During his initial contract negotiations with the Mariners, Boras and the M's were far apart on the dollars as the signing deadline loomed. A-Rod, accompanied by a family associate, negotiated directly with M's management, and hours before the deadline, they reached an agreement that was a lot closer to the M's numbers than to Boras'.

Boras filed a grievance over the matter but it was never heard.

W

Paulwny
11-16-2007, 01:44 PM
Reading the hatred for Boras just confirms an article I read. In the end Boras takes all the hatred that actually should be directed at his client.
Blame the player(s) not Boras.

WhiteSox5187
11-16-2007, 02:18 PM
What MAY happen here is that teams that are dealing with Boras will simply wait for the other team to make that "huge offer" that Boras claims they will make. And when that offer never comes they will simply say "Our offer still stands." A-Rod was probably going to command that type of money on the FA market anyways, it's not like the price was going to go from 200 mil to 50 mil simply because the Yankees said "We don't want to talk to Boras." Other teams may learn from this and be more patient in future negotations (which will hurt Boras). But as long as Boras is still making his clients money, he will be in this buisness for a long time.

rmusacch
11-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Boras got his client the second largest deal in the history of baseball. He made the Yankees come back to the table after saying they were done with him.

He is still the single most powerful man in baseball.

Second largest deal? I thought this was the largest?

drewcifer
11-16-2007, 04:32 PM
Second largest deal? I thought this was the largest?

I think he meant "second, largest deal"... As in the largest deal for the same client for the second time. Not necessarily in order of magnitude as both were actually the largest at their respective times.

Chicken Dinner
11-16-2007, 04:57 PM
Second largest deal? I thought this was the largest?

It is.:rolleyes:

spawn
11-16-2007, 05:02 PM
Just to clarify, according to this (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath?currentPage=4), his commission is 5%.



Still not shabby.
Ah..did not know that. I thought it was 10%. OK, so then he's going to make $13.75 million. That's still a lot of coin.

FarWestChicago
11-16-2007, 05:25 PM
Ah..did not know that. I thought it was 10%. OK, so then he's going to make $13.75 million. That's still a lot of coin.Hell, I'm jealous. I wish I could get paid $13.75M to be a blight on mankind and a jagoff. :?:

spawn
11-16-2007, 05:27 PM
Hell, I'm jealous. I wish I could get paid $13.75M to be a blight on mankind and a jagoff. :?:
Word. I didn't know you could get paid for that, otherwise I would've started billing people a long time ago...

FarWestChicago
11-16-2007, 05:30 PM
Word. I didn't know you could get paid for that, otherwise I would've started billing people a long time ago...All I've gotten out of being a competent manager and good guy is middle class. :D:

spawn
11-16-2007, 05:34 PM
All I've gotten out of being a competent manager and good guy is middle class. :D:
You obviously need to change that. Being an ******* obviously earns you more money. Unfortunately, that wasn't my calling. :D:

FarWestChicago
11-16-2007, 05:42 PM
You obviously need to change that. Being an ******* obviously earns you more money. Unfortunately, that wasn't my calling. :D:We are what we are. I'm OK with that. :smile:

Oblong
11-16-2007, 06:09 PM
I don't now if this should go here or talking baseball but it sure fits in with this thread:

Kenny Rogers cuts ties with Boras (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2302080&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det&partnered=rss_det)

Back story. All season long Rogers said he wanted to play in Detroit if he continued pitching. "It's either here or retirement". Then last week Boras says that Rogers is going to explore other teams interest and two offers from the Tigers were declined. I'm sure the offers were more than fair.

MUsoxfan
11-16-2007, 06:18 PM
Good for The Gambler

DumpJerry
11-16-2007, 06:33 PM
I don't now if this should go here or talking baseball but it sure fits in with this thread:

Kenny Rogers cuts ties with Boras (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2302080&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det&partnered=rss_det)

Back story. All season long Rogers said he wanted to play in Detroit if he continued pitching. "It's either here or retirement". Then last week Boras says that Rogers is going to explore other teams interest and two offers from the Tigers were declined. I'm sure the offers were more than fair.
Ok. I have to assume Borass takes on some sort of role as attorney when representing his clients since we're talking contract issues here. Believe it or not, Scott Borass is licensed to practice law by the State of Illinois. This is public information. (http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=878871142)

Given that he is an attorney, one of the rules of professional responsibility he has to abide by is "get the money." Just kidding. The rule we have to abide by is that we have to honor reasonable requests of our clients. Failure to do so is grounds for disciplinary action. This means if my client wants to play for only the Tigers even though I can get him a larger contract with the Angels, I have to do my best to get him a deal with the Tigers. This brings up another rule of professional conduct we have to live with: a lawyer cannot put his/her personal interests ahead of the client's personal interests. This means if I am getting a percentage of the contract I negotiate, I cannot force you to take the Angels' deal over the Tigers' smaller deal because I won't make as much money.

Joe Crede gets it. He has said in the past that he wants to stay with the White Sox and if his agent (Borass) does not agree, then he would get a new agent. The client is the boss, not the other way around. What Borass needs to understand is that while he has a lot of control over young players, older, established, accomplished players can get a sweet deal even if their 5 year old daughter represents them.

spawn
11-16-2007, 06:50 PM
We are what we are. I'm OK with that. :smile:

Yeah...being a good person has served me well. I think I'll stick with it.

doublem23
11-16-2007, 07:05 PM
What Borass needs to understand is that while he has a lot of control over young players, older, established, accomplished players can get a sweet deal even if their 5 year old daughter represents them.

Which is why I would believe Boras's impact on the game isn't going away any time soon. Yeah, maybe he overplayed this hand, and even if he doesn't represent a lot of the big-time players, who can get multi-million dollar contracts relatively easily, but Boras still has a significant impact on the MLB draft. The fact that some teams actually have to take "signability" into account shows that he's not going away for some time now. Premium college and high school kids know that if they want the best possible deal, Scott Boras can still deliver it.

WhiteSox5187
11-16-2007, 07:28 PM
Ok. I have to assume Borass takes on some sort of role as attorney when representing his clients since we're talking contract issues here. Believe it or not, Scott Borass is licensed to practice law by the State of Illinois. This is public information. (http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=878871142)

Given that he is an attorney, one of the rules of professional responsibility he has to abide by is "get the money." Just kidding. The rule we have to abide by is that we have to honor reasonable requests of our clients. Failure to do so is grounds for disciplinary action. This means if my client wants to play for only the Tigers even though I can get him a larger contract with the Angels, I have to do my best to get him a deal with the Tigers. This brings up another rule of professional conduct we have to live with: a lawyer cannot put his/her personal interests ahead of the client's personal interests. This means if I am getting a percentage of the contract I negotiate, I cannot force you to take the Angels' deal over the Tigers' smaller deal because I won't make as much money.

Joe Crede gets it. He has said in the past that he wants to stay with the White Sox and if his agent (Borass) does not agree, then he would get a new agent. The client is the boss, not the other way around. What Borass needs to understand is that while he has a lot of control over young players, older, established, accomplished players can get a sweet deal even if their 5 year old daughter represents them.
I don't want to read into Crede's motives here (I think that he says that, but would more than willing to play for another team that offered him more money) but I'd be curious to see what would happen if Kenny made Crede a fair multi-year deal right now. Boras might not really be in the position to decline because after this news, if I were Crede (or any of Boras' clients) I would say "I want you to tell me of EVERY offer we get, and I will make the descion, you just make sure I dot all my i's and cross all my t's." Otherwise Boras could lose another client.

I don't think Boras is going anywhere, but his barganing position has certainly taken a hit and this has certainly not been a very good week for Mr. Boras.

the1tab
11-17-2007, 02:43 PM
ESPN.com is reporting that Warren Buffett advised ARod to blow off Boras and get it done, and had a couple guys from Goldman Sachs help w/ the negotiating.

This comes out the day after Kenny Rogers... the Gambler himself... fired Boras as his agent.

Grzegorz
11-18-2007, 06:31 AM
ESPN.com is reporting that Warren Buffett advised ARod to blow off Boras and get it done, and had a couple guys from Goldman Sachs help w/ the negotiating.

Wow, Warren Buffett is trying to interject himself into every nook and cranny of society.

Mind your own business Warren.

Steelrod
11-18-2007, 06:54 AM
Wow, Warren Buffett is trying to interject himself into every nook and cranny of society.

Mind your own business Warren.
Why don't you approve of injecting a little intelligence into this lunacy?

Grzegorz
11-18-2007, 07:13 AM
Why don't you approve of injecting a little intelligence into this lunacy?

Because you're assuming that Buffett is injecting intelligence. Warren is interjecting himself into many different areas for his own personal gain.

I'd just like to ask those persons who look upon Boras as a greedy SOB to think long and hard at the motives and of GS & Buffett.

DumpJerry
11-18-2007, 10:21 AM
Wow, Warren Buffett is trying to interject himself into every nook and cranny of society.

Mind your own business Warren.
Goldman got involved because they own a large stake in the YES Network. I have a feeling Buffet has some serious cash tied up in the Yankee business organization. He was minding his on business.

Fenway
11-18-2007, 02:40 PM
Jason Varitek told NESN last night he is changing agents as well.

Grzegorz
11-18-2007, 08:03 PM
Goldman got involved because they own a large stake in the YES Network. I have a feeling Buffet has some serious cash tied up in the Yankee business organization. He was minding his on business.

GS gets involved because they're greedy; Buffett gets involved because his buddy went to him for advice.

And we all know 'Ole Warren in never short on giving advice.

Negotiations on this deal are going to be fun to watch with all the outside interests lining up for a piece of the pie.

DumpJerry
11-18-2007, 10:53 PM
GS gets involved because they're greedy; Buffett gets involved because his buddy went to him for advice.

And we all know 'Ole Warren in never short on giving advice.

Negotiations on this deal are going to be fun to watch with all the outside interests lining up for a piece of the pie.
Goldman got involved because they are greedy? They have a major investment in the YES Network. They have to protect their investment. Having ARod play for the Yankees goes a long way towards protecting that investment.

AZChiSoxFan
11-19-2007, 06:02 PM
Boras got his client the second largest deal in the history of baseball. He made the Yankees come back to the table after saying they were done with him.

He is still the single most powerful man in baseball.

However, now teams will be much more willing to call him on his lies......er....bluffs.

Grzegorz
11-19-2007, 09:00 PM
DumpJerry,

All I have to say is that there were many voices being heard in these negotiations. If A-Rod wanted outside parties negotiating his contract then fire Boras.


You can say all you want about outside parties having vested interests. Try working and negotiating in the real world with all this interference.

spiffie
11-20-2007, 12:55 AM
DumpJerry,

All I have to say is that there were many voices being heard in these negotiations. If A-Rod wanted outside parties negotiating his contract then fire Boras.


You can say all you want about outside parties having vested interests. Try working and negotiating in the real world with all this interference.
When you have that kind of money at stake I suspect it is fairly common to have many voices involved in such a process. When hundreds of millions of dollars are being bandied about it would be foolish for all parties with some fiscal interest not to make their voices heard.

Grzegorz
11-20-2007, 05:43 AM
When you have that kind of money at stake I suspect it is fairly common to have many voices involved in such a process.

A good negotiator will shut out such 'white noise'. Especially when an interloper like Buffett is involved.