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View Full Version : Bonds Indicted ! Yesss !!!


Sockinchisox
11-15-2007, 04:14 PM
It's on rotoworld, they're updating, I'll post a link soon.

Link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7452044

it'll be updated soon I assume.

SOXPHILE
11-15-2007, 04:14 PM
GREAT NEWS ! Just heard on the Score that Barry Bonds was FINALLY indicted on perjury and obstruction of justice charges. There is a God...

The Immigrant
11-15-2007, 04:15 PM
Barry Bonds indicted

The Associated Press 4:09 PM CST, November 15, 2007 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-071115bonds,0,7398619,full.story?coll=chi_breaking _500

SOXfnNlansing
11-15-2007, 04:17 PM
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, the culmination of a four-year federal investigation into whether........................


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8SUCA3G0&show_article=1

Vernam
11-15-2007, 04:17 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam

cbotnyse
11-15-2007, 04:19 PM
http://www.ktvu.com/news/14606146/detail.html

oeo
11-15-2007, 04:22 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam

Barry Bonds is an embarrassment to the game.

spawn
11-15-2007, 04:29 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam
Yep. This is nothing to be happy about IMO. Yes, Bonds will probably get what's coming to him, but I'm not happy about this at all.

VenturaFan23
11-15-2007, 04:30 PM
*

Madvora
11-15-2007, 04:32 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam
I think this is a great day for baseball, just as great as the questioning of McGwire, Sosa, Canseco and Palmiero in front of congress.
It's a great thing to clean up this sport and catch the people trying to ruin it.

SOXPHILE
11-15-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm not happy that this is happening in baseball, but I am glad that he's finally getting what's coming to him. Clean up the damn game and punish these scumbag offenders already....

102605
11-15-2007, 04:33 PM
This is great. It gives right and reason for this:

*

soxinem1
11-15-2007, 04:35 PM
GREAT NEWS ! Just heard on the Score that Barry Bonds was FINALLY indicted on perjury and obstruction of justice charges. There is a God...



Damn, you took my line!!!

Domeshot17
11-15-2007, 04:37 PM
yesssssssss

Palehose Pete
11-15-2007, 04:41 PM
It makes me sick to think that this guy took a great career and trashed it by starting to take PEDs. He was a jerk, but, man, he was a great ball player before he started the PEDs. Now? Who knows where the ball player stopped and the PEDs took over? Sick.

soxinem1
11-15-2007, 04:43 PM
http://www.geo-trotter.com/afrique/images/haha.gif

palehozenychicty
11-15-2007, 04:47 PM
Dag. :o:

chisoxjtrain
11-15-2007, 04:48 PM
*

My sentiments exactly. If justice is served, Barry wouldn't have to worry about going to his HOF induction as he would not get in. That 756 ball deserves the *.

manders_01
11-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Woo-hoo!

Steelrod
11-15-2007, 04:49 PM
Perhaps his not going to Cooperstown for his induction will NOT be caused by them accepting the infamous ball.

chaerulez
11-15-2007, 04:52 PM
This is great. Hopefully he spends a good amount of time in jail.

thomas35forever
11-15-2007, 04:53 PM
Yes! Take that, douche!:bandance:

soxinem1
11-15-2007, 04:55 PM
My sentiments exactly. If justice is served, Barry wouldn't have to worry about going to his HOF induction as he would not get in. That 756 ball deserves the * .



Actually, it deserves the:

http://www.aakamilitary.com/images/fullsize/lowa_seeker_gtx_boot_3002.gif

RockyMtnSoxFan
11-15-2007, 04:58 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam

I think the sad day was when he, and other juicers, started taking steroids. And when he passed Aaron. The offense has already been committed, now it is time to bring justice and start cleaning the sport up.

DumpJerry
11-15-2007, 04:59 PM
Bye bye Barry...bye bye Barry...hay hay hay GOODBYE!

Take that, you worthless piece of ****.

The Immigrant
11-15-2007, 05:01 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/071115/bonds.pdf

The indictment is a fun read.

WhiteSox5187
11-15-2007, 05:02 PM
Well, if he is convicted then he is probably not going into the hall...so both, baseball's all time hit leader and all time HR leader will not be in the hall...now if we could dig some stuff up on Cy Young, we'd have a trifecta.

soxinem1
11-15-2007, 05:03 PM
For denying kids the 'right' to collect your baseball card....

For denying fans the 'privelige' of using his likeness in baseball video games....

For helping permanently stain an entire era of MLB players.........

Barry, this indictment's for you!!

Hope your cell in Chino is as nice as one of your mansions, Mr. Needle In The Ass!!!

santo=dorf
11-15-2007, 05:05 PM
Innocent until proven guilty.


















But I second the Nelson Muntz "Haw-Haw." :cool:

jenn2080
11-15-2007, 05:11 PM
I think that this could turn into a big issue if he is prosecuted and others are not.

DumpJerry
11-15-2007, 05:14 PM
I think that this could turn into a big issue if he is prosecuted and others are not.
What "others" are you referring to? Half of BALCO is already in jail, Barroid's trainer is in jail. This indictment is for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury, not taking steroids.

areilly
11-15-2007, 05:15 PM
I think that this could turn into a big issue if he is prosecuted and others are not.

If by others you mean the other athletes implicated in the BALCO mess, then I wouldn't be so sure about that - remember, these are perjury charges, not trafficking/possession/whatever charges. Jason Giambi didn't lie under oath, and Gary Sheffield (to my knowledge) didn't either.

IlliniSox4Life
11-15-2007, 05:16 PM
I'm surprised he's actually getting in trouble. I'm not happy for baseball, but it's sort of a relief that it is starting to get some closure.

kevin57
11-15-2007, 05:17 PM
The "sad" part of this story washed over me several years ago. I'm actually happy BB got indicted. Innocent until proved guilty, but the feds rarely indict unless they have an iron-clad case.

Some have defended Bonds and his HOF track because "he's never been indicted for any crime." Well, this changes that equation, no?

jenn2080
11-15-2007, 05:17 PM
If by others you mean the other athletes implicated in the BALCO mess, then I wouldn't be so sure about that - remember, these are perjury charges, not trafficking/possession/whatever charges. Jason Giambi didn't lie under oath, and Gary Sheffield (to my knowledge) didn't either.


They were who I was referring to. You are right though, they didnt lie so it may not be so bad. I still see there being issues about this.

Red Barchetta
11-15-2007, 05:24 PM
I think this is a great day for baseball, just as great as the questioning of McGwire, Sosa, Canseco and Palmiero in front of congress.
It's a great thing to clean up this sport and catch the people trying to ruin it.

I agree, however does this include the coaches, trainers, players, owners and "ahem" Commissioner who looked the other way while the HRs were flying out of the park and the fans were filling the seats?!

I agree Bonds is a jerk and I did not enjoy him passing Aaron, however this goes beyond a few select players, but I know these charges are about lying and obstructing justice vs. needles in the butt.

areilly
11-15-2007, 05:29 PM
I really like where this nugget from the indictment is going:


"During the criminal investigation, evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing substances for Bonds and other athletes."

...and as stated before, every Bonds apologist can go somewhere and rot.

kevingrt
11-15-2007, 05:33 PM
Didn't see this coming on a slow sports news day.

Red Barchetta
11-15-2007, 05:35 PM
At the very least, I'm hoping this ends his playing days and he doesn't pad another 50 DH HRs onto the (*).

thomas35forever
11-15-2007, 05:47 PM
Breaking news on ESPN says Greg Anderson was released from prison. Also, Stephen A. Smith is going on a rant about the whole thing.

VenturaFan23
11-15-2007, 05:57 PM
So any bets as to what clown in Bristol is going to stick up for him again first??

Foulke You
11-15-2007, 06:02 PM
This is great news but I wish they could have brought up these charges before Aaron's HR record fell earlier this year.

mjmcend
11-15-2007, 06:02 PM
So any bets as to what clown in Bristol is going to stick up for him again first??

Steven A. Smith, but since he has already done so, I don't think its ethical for me to take your money.

mjmcend
11-15-2007, 06:04 PM
What "others" are you referring to? Half of BALCO is already in jail, Barroid's trainer is in jail. This indictment is for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury, not taking steroids.

Not anymore. Greg Anderson was just released from prison. I guess he is talking now and he realized that Bonds was no friend for letting him sit in jail for over a year.

Soxfest
11-15-2007, 06:04 PM
3 years too late!

santo=dorf
11-15-2007, 06:08 PM
Mod Edit: One week suspension for reprinting cartoons with copyright notices right on them. Nice going!

Domeshot17
11-15-2007, 06:11 PM
Its pretty clear to me what happened. Greg Anderson, Barroids so called best friend, comes out now? Im guessing Greg knew sooner or later he had no choice and made sure Barry got the record first. No matter how this plays out now, no one in history has hit more mlb homers than Barry Bonds, and no grand jury or * or anything can take that away, which sucks.


The Entire freaking universe should be an A-rod fan right now. He is the one player with a real shot to break that record and bring it back. Arod is basically America right now. The other guy who can do this is Pujols, and Im not 100% sure he isn't on something.

jabrch
11-15-2007, 06:13 PM
Innocent until proved guilty,

That is only true in a court of law. In the court of public opinion, Barry Bonds has been guilty for years, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

chisoxjtrain
11-15-2007, 06:23 PM
Actually, it deserves the:

http://www.aakamilitary.com/images/fullsize/lowa_seeker_gtx_boot_3002.gif

You make a very good point.

Jerome
11-15-2007, 06:23 PM
hahahah yes! such a shame he broke the record. i will be sure to listen to the re-broadcast of smith tonight to hear his take on this

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 06:27 PM
My only question and I guess this goes to the lawyers. News is Anderson has been released from jail. I would assume he spilled the goods on Barry Bonds. As a juror why, after 1 year in jail, should I take Anderson's revelation as truth and not desperation for release?

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 06:28 PM
Oh and Steven A Smith. I used to like and respect you, after today as far as I'm concerned you could step in front of bus and hopefully the bus will not slow down, speed up if possible. Despite common belief not every god damn ****ing decision in this world is based on race you ignorant ass clown.

Daver
11-15-2007, 06:28 PM
My only question and I guess this goes to the lawyers. News is Anderson has been released from jail. I would assume he spilled the goods on Barry Bonds. As a juror why, after 1 year in jail, should I take Anderson's revelation as truth and not desperation for release?

It is also possible he was released because the courts do not intend to use him as a witness, and therefore there was no valid reason to hold him.

TheOldRoman
11-15-2007, 06:30 PM
What "others" are you referring to? Half of BALCO is already in jail, Barroid's trainer is in jail. This indictment is for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury, not taking steroids.
Not true. The pieces of **** from Balco got off with a slap on the wrists. Conte was charged with something like 30 counts, and ended up pleading guilty to one count of conspiracy to distribute steroids and one count of money laundering. He served 4 months in jail, and 4 months house arrest. He appeared one a bunch of talk shows, and is still selling his supplements. The "legal" ones, anyway.

This is good news, but honestly, I don't think anything will come of this. We will see a plea bargain and a few months in jail, if that.

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 06:31 PM
It is also possible he was released because the courts do not intend to use him as a witness, and therefore there was no valid reason to hold him.
The only reason they were holding him was because he wouldn't say what he knew? I hope Barry put a nice chunk of change aside for Anderson to enable him to break the record.
What a sad day for baseball.

The Immigrant
11-15-2007, 06:32 PM
It is also possible he was released because the courts do not intend to use him as a witness, and therefore there was no valid reason to hold him.

That's a possibility. The prosecutors obviously didn't need his testimony to indict Bonds, so he could have stayed in jail until the trial. My guess is that the prosecutors waited to build enough evidence to convict even without Anderson's testimony before finally deciding to indict. This should be a fun case.

Grzegorz
11-15-2007, 07:37 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad.

Vernam

Actually it is a great day for baseball; a corner has been turned.

davenicholson
11-15-2007, 07:38 PM
I am glad. But I saw a column in the USA Yesterday fish wrap that I found compelling. In short, the columnist stated that she believed that today's generation of sports fans simply don't care either way whether a player has cheated his way into the record book. Paraphrasing her, as long as they get to see home runs and quarterback sacks, the young fans just don't care.

Even to those that are aware of the cheating, she opines, it doesn't matter any more than the knowledge that the latest movie was filled with CGI rather than actual people performing actual stunts. She thinks that the line between sports and entertainment has blurred and maybe even erased. To an old-timer like me, who lived and breathed sports (especially baseball) as a kid, and thought of the players as god-like heroes, this saddens me. Probably more that it really should. I guess that I'm getting soft and sentimental in my dotage. :whiner:

Scottiehaswheels
11-15-2007, 07:39 PM
I was listening to XM and Rob Dibble got all pissed at the author of some book.... I don't want to say anything but the way he was defending that era of players makes me wonder about him...

FarWestChicago
11-15-2007, 07:45 PM
It is sad is a way. Bonds, while a jagbag, was a great, HOF player. He got jealous of Mark "I only did Andro" McGwire and Sham-ME Soso and trashed his career. Sure, he deserves what he gets. What about Andro Boy and Sham-ME? This is like the guy who jumps on the pile and gets a penalty after the perpetrators have conned the refs. I honestly don't think Bonds, despite how big of a jerk he is, would have 'roided like that if not for the two scumbags who have skated. McGwire and Soso are the biggest blight in the history of baseball, period.

Grzegorz
11-15-2007, 07:45 PM
To an old-timer like me, who lived and breathed sports (especially baseball) as a kid, and thought of the players as god-like heroes, this saddens me. Probably more that it really should. I guess that I'm getting soft and sentimental in my dotage.

No, you're relishing precious memories from the past that brought you endless joy.

Now, you see an increasingly ignorant public whose mentality is to get ahead at any cost.

drewcifer
11-15-2007, 07:46 PM
I was listening to XM and Rob Dibble got all pissed at the author of some book.... I don't want to say anything but the way he was defending that era of players makes me wonder about him...

What can you possibly wonder about Rob Dibble? His picture is right next to "Roid Rage" in the dictionary.

I didn't hear it myself, but I'm sure it was something about how nobody should condemn him until proven, people don't know what it's like to play in the majors, blah-blah... Then Kevin talking about his resume and veiling a plea to get a job for the Dodgers...

Ziggy S
11-15-2007, 07:48 PM
I really like where this nugget from the indictment is going:


"During the criminal investigation, evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing substances for Bonds and other athletes."

...and as stated before, every Bonds apologist can go somewhere and rot.

Yet, Butthead Selig still allowed to play and collect every dollar and cent on his paycheck without even a threat of suspension. That's not an indictment (pardon the pun) on Mr. Selig's tenure as the Commissioner of MLB. Shame on you Mr. Bonds and double, triple dog shame on you Mr. Selig.

davenicholson
11-15-2007, 07:50 PM
No, you're relishing precious memories from the past that brought you endless joy.

Now, you see an increasingly ignorant public whose mentality is to get ahead at any cost.
Thanks, Grzegorz. Well said.

Ziggy S
11-15-2007, 07:57 PM
It is sad is a way. Bonds, while a jagbag, was a great, HOF player. He got jealous of Mark "I only did Andro" McGwire and Sham-ME Soso and trashed his career. Sure, he deserves what he gets. What about Andro Boy and Sham-ME? This is like the guy who jumps on the pile and gets a penalty after the perpetrators have conned the refs. I honestly don't think Bonds, despite how big of a jerk he is, would have 'roided like that if not for the two scumbags who have skated. McGwire and Soso are the biggest blight in the history of baseball, period.
Agreed, but who portrayed those two jagoffs as superheroes in commercials and other marketing ploys? Obviously, it was the owners and their lobbyist Mr. Butthead Selig. Yes, it was the players who shot the needle, but when leaders of an organization fail to exercise authority or encourages wrong and downright criminal behavior, the subordinates can and will take full advantage. Butthead and his coleagues made record breaking profits and expanded MLB's business, but most if not all of the money "earned" is tainted with blood stains that will not be washed away no matter how much soap the overlords use. Mr. Selig, you must fall on the sword and commit hari kari (metaphorically of course) for you inaction and absentminded reign as the Commissioner of Major League Baseball and the other owners should be investigated along with the players.

Having said all of that, when Selig finally steps down, which hopefully will be soon who should replace the man who presided over an era of baseball that in general deserves an asterisk? I'll say one thing, it should not be any current or former CEO's from that era. A few ex-presidents or former politicians could clean up this mess, but I will not mention names at this point because this ugliness does not need to be magnified by partisan political bickering. A pro-active, assertive commissioner would really do wonders for this game, right now.

Daver
11-15-2007, 08:04 PM
It is sad is a way. Bonds, while a jagbag, was a great, HOF player. He got jealous of Mark "I only did Andro" McGwire and Sham-ME Soso and trashed his career. Sure, he deserves what he gets. What about Andro Boy and Sham-ME? This is like the guy who jumps on the pile and gets a penalty after the perpetrators have conned the refs. I honestly don't think Bonds, despite how big of a jerk he is, would have 'roided like that if not for the two scumbags who have skated. McGwire and Soso are the biggest blight in the history of baseball, period.

You're letting the real culprits off the hook, Jose Canseco and Tony Larussa.

Jjav829
11-15-2007, 08:06 PM
:bandance: Nail him, Feds. Nail him.

And good riddance to Barry. We won't have to see him play again.

Now how long until Hank once again is the *official* home run king?

Viva Medias B's
11-15-2007, 08:31 PM
While it is a good thing that Bonds is finally being brought to justice, this is not a cause for celebration.

Daver
11-15-2007, 08:32 PM
:bandance: Nail him, Feds. Nail him.

And good riddance to Barry. We won't have to see him play again.

Now how long until Hank once again is the *official* home run king?

Never.

Frontman
11-15-2007, 08:35 PM
And I second the feelings of all those who want the Barry apologists to go away. You said "means nothing unless he's charged." Well guess what, the steriod freak

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/scottsteiner/15.jpg

No, not that one; this one
http://www.epicguide.com/images/barry-bonds-photo.jpg

Has been finally caught and will have his day in court. Glad to see him go, bye bye!

Frontman
11-15-2007, 08:36 PM
While it is a good thing that Bonds is finally being brought to justice, this is not a cause for celebration.

Speak for yourself. Seeing someone constantly thumb his nose and act as if he's above the law, all the while saying "I never broke any rule of baseball" when he's breaking THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES finally get caught?

Shows that the system does actually work from time to time; and THAT's why I'm happy.

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 08:43 PM
Actually it is a great day for baseball; a corner has been turned.
Here's the reality of the situation. This is horrible for baseball. Barry Bonds is an extremely selfish player and human being who only cares about himself. If he gets thrown in jail and/or Pete Rosed from baseball he will spill his guts on everything and everyone. Did baseball turn a corner today, perhaps. Is it a road that baseball wants to go down, absolutely not. I have a feeling things are gonna come out that, as baseball fans, will ruin the game for us.

Frontman
11-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Here's the reality of the situation. This is horrible for baseball. Barry Bonds is an extremely selfish player and human being who only cares about himself. If he gets thrown in jail and/or Pete Rosed from baseball he will spill his guts on everything and everyone. Did baseball turn a corner today, perhaps. Is it a road that baseball wants to go down, absolutely not. I have a feeling things are gonna come out that, as baseball fans, will ruin the game for us.

I disagree. While it might lead for some dark days and some moments of doubt, the games will still go on. Baseball can't be killed. For crying out loud, it cancelled the World Series not more than 15 years ago; and still people are coming out in droves. A number of players have been suspended for drug use, yet ratings are strong. Oh sure, the World Series ratings are down; but has anyone thought that *might* be due to:

a: teams fans don't care much about

and

b: Having to listen to up to 7 nights of Joe Buck will get even the most die-hard baseball fan to tune out.

I think baseball has proven it can survive a crisis. And its not like nobody believed Barry was using steroids anyway, yet folks were still following their teams this year!

hsnterprize
11-15-2007, 08:55 PM
Oh and Steven A Smith. I used to like and respect you, after today as far as I'm concerned you could step in front of bus and hopefully the bus will not slow down, speed up if possible. Despite common belief not every god damn ****ing decision in this world is based on race you ignorant ass clown.I'm a black man, and when I heard Stephen A.'s comments, I could sort of understand why he would say something like that. At first, the thought process is "Mark McGwire, a white guy, and Rafael Palmiero, a hispanic guy, were each caught in one way or another taking some sort of performance enhancing stubstance...yet they aren't under as much scrutiny or in as much legal trouble as Bonds." However, like others have said, you CAN'T lie to investigators about anything...or else you face the consequences.

I, like a lot of you, are glad that Bonds seems to be finally caught in his lies. The only thing I can hope for is that the trial goes on, and the race card isn't used to get him off. The focus of this indictment is that Bonds repeatedly lied about his steroid use, and now, he's been exposed. The fact that people want to use the thought process of "they're after Bonds", or "why didn't they go after McGwire and others" to me is acenine because they were never formally investigated like Bonds was. So all I have to say is don't be suprized if you hear/see a lot of soundbites along the lines Smith said. I know it's not popular, but have to understand there's a TON of skepticism out there for the justice system amongst African-Americans. And not to mention, most of Barry's supporters are Black, so a lot of people are being made to look like a fool seeing the indictments going down...much like a lot of the people who supported Pete Rose's claims of not gambling on baseball until he finally admitted he lied about the whole thing.

I hate it that the race card is being played in this situation...even if it is only in the "court of public opinion". Still, if Bonds is convicted on the charges and he has to spend time in jail, there will ALWAYS be people who will defend him, even if it's because others who should be in the same situation as Bonds aren't. Having said that, I hope baseball throws away Bonds' records, and the whole game...from the minors to the big leagues, gets cleaned up.

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 08:56 PM
I disagree. While it might lead for some dark days and some moments of doubt, the games will still go on. Baseball can't be killed. For crying out loud, it cancelled the World Series not more than 15 years ago; and still people are coming out in droves. A number of players have been suspended for drug use, yet ratings are strong. Oh sure, the World Series ratings are down; but has anyone thought that *might* be due to:

a: teams fans don't care much about

and

b: Having to listen to up to 7 nights of Joe Buck will get even the most die-hard baseball fan to tune out.

I think baseball has proven it can survive a crisis. And its not like nobody believed Barry was using steroids anyway, yet folks were still following their teams this year!
Thats not what worries me, its what does Barry know that he won't feel bad about revealing? He's an ******* like that where every othe rball player would take things to the grave Barry would hang everyone out to dry if he feels totally wronged by the league.

Bucky F. Dent
11-15-2007, 09:03 PM
As much as anyone, I want to see the guy brought to justice. But this is a sad day for baseball. Very sad. :(:

Vernam


True.

Let's hope baseball can find a way to make a clean break from this unfortunate era, and no, Bonds is not the only person who has brought this scandal upon the league, but he is certainly the poster child.

PKalltheway
11-15-2007, 09:21 PM
You're letting the real culprits off the hook, Jose Canseco and Tony Larussa.
True, but at least Canseco fessed up in his book. If it wasn't for him spilling the beans, and ratting out people, baseball wouldn't have had their hand forced on the steroid issue.

That'll be the only time I half-way defend Canseco....

Lukin13
11-15-2007, 09:27 PM
Sorry, I have wanted to write up something like this for years and I guess this is where it is finally gonna fly!

I am going to say 90% of the league takes PEDs that are not approved by the FDA. Not necessarily annabolic steroids but they were and still are taking drugs.

It is all sports, not just baseball.

I really don't want to get into it too much but I was a D1 distance runner (xc/track) five years ago and I used ephedra regularly. Was it illegal at the time: Yep. Did we know it was illegal? Nope, I used to buy the crap at Walmart. My football player roomates used any and everything including HGH, Agent Orange (speed), Clear and Andro. All of it was provided by trainers or purchased at the drugstore. The stuff wasn't illegal, and you wouldn't fail the school's or the NCAA's tests... so it was perfectly fine to use. All of the above was in the same category as creatine at the time. It never entered anyone's head that outside of the crap being prolly bad for you in the long run that we were doing anything wrong. Hell, running 100 miles a week is prolly bad for you in the long run (no pun intended), so whats the difference?

Athletes at this level eat, sleep and breathe their sport. I was mediocre at best but if you asked me if I would shave 10 years off my life to shave 10 seconds off my 1600 time; back then I would have done it in a heartbeat. Looking back now that I have a family and life outside of running that seems astonishing but I gurantee you I would have done it in a heartbeat at the time.

Another small tidbit just to put things into perspective. When I quit racing I decided to start lifting just to fill out a bit. I took Andro and Creatine and lifted casually for only three months. I went from 140 lbs to 180 or so during that time; so it is perfectly reasonable for these professional athletes with millions of dollars on the line to have gained tons of weight/size without using drugs that are historically looked at as steroids... meaning they didn't think they were doing anything wrong.

Just like everyone else, I don't like Bonds, but he is the home run champion in my book. All sports got bigger and faster in the late 90's, the size progression is just easier to measure in some sports.

Please do not quote this post because I will most likely delete it in a few days after I realize I shouldn't have started running my mouth in a public forum :)

thomas35forever
11-15-2007, 09:32 PM
Marion Jones, is that you?

FarWestChicago
11-15-2007, 09:41 PM
I hate it that the race card is being played in this situation...even if it is only in the "court of public opinion". Still, if Bonds is convicted on the charges and he has to spend time in jail, there will ALWAYS be people who will defend him, even if it's because others who should be in the same situation as Bonds aren't. Having said that, I hope baseball throws away Bonds' records, and the whole game...from the minors to the big leagues, gets cleaned up.As I mentioned earlier, for all of his jagbagness, there is no question a white man and a Hispanic man drove Bonds to this. Yet they skate. I don't think it's racial in this case. I think the media, The Tool and everybody else made fools of themselves worshiping Andro Boy and Soso. People are just trying to save face. Bonds is a jerk. But, I won't be happy until McGwire and Soso are publicly demolished as the complete, fraudulent scumbags they are.

FarWestChicago
11-15-2007, 09:45 PM
You're letting the real culprits off the hook, Jose Canseco and Tony Larussa.Yes, LaRussa launched the Mecca of 'roids. But, Jose just tried to make a decent living off of 'roids. McGwire used 'roids to remove one of the most hallowed records in sports. And Sham-ME would have if McGwire wasn't the better chemist. I've got no problem with Jose. He fessed right up. Hell, he's the only one who has been telling the truth for years. But, you are right. Tony, "DUI" LaRussa is as big of a piece of **** as McGwire and Soso.

TheOldRoman
11-15-2007, 09:51 PM
True, but at least Canseco fessed up in his book. If it wasn't for him spilling the beans, and ratting out people, baseball wouldn't have had their hand forced on the steroid issue.

That'll be the only time I half-way defend Canseco....
I don't agree with that. Fessed up is what HGHambi did, when he was testifying under oath. Canseco started all this with his book, and credits himself with making steroids widespread in baseball. Canseco beat his chest and proclaimed that, not only did he take steroids, but kids should take them because there was nothing wrong with them. The piece of **** changed course was was "remorseful" when he told congress he wanted to assure kids didn't take roids.

I imagine the big majority of the stuff in "Juiced" is true, but Canseco is such a shameless self promoter, such a piece of **** that much of it was greatly embellished. I know what you are saying, but I wouldn't call this "fessing up." This was an irrelevant clown under house arrest (at the time) who wrote this book to make himself a household name again, and make lots of money along with it.

Regardless of his intentions, that book coming out was a great thing.

Frontman
11-15-2007, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by hsnterprize http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1723028#post1723028)
I hate it that the race card is being played in this situation...even if it is only in the "court of public opinion". Still, if Bonds is convicted on the charges and he has to spend time in jail, there will ALWAYS be people who will defend him, even if it's because others who should be in the same situation as Bonds aren't. Having said that, I hope baseball throws away Bonds' records, and the whole game...from the minors to the big leagues, gets cleaned up.

As I mentioned earlier, for all of his jagbagness, there is no question a white man and a Hispanic man drove Bonds to this. Yet they skate. I don't think it's racial in this case. I think the media, The Tool and everybody else made fools of themselves worshiping Andro Boy and Soso. People are just trying to save face. Bonds is a jerk. But, I won't be happy until McGwire and Soso are publicly demolished as the complete, fraudulent scumbags they are.

Race played a part in this, that's for sure.

The moment Barry couldn't handle a white guy getting all the attention.

Barry has injected race into this all along. Sadly, its what many *cough*Behind the Lines*cough* will focus on; when the point of the investigation/indictment wasn't race.

It was the fact that a man, reguardless of his color; felt he was above the law and lied during his questioning and testimony. And no man is above the law. You lie to the federal investigators, they find out, you get charged.

Pretty straight forward, if you ask me.

jshanahanjr
11-15-2007, 10:32 PM
If Bonds wasn't such a jerk it would be a very sad day for baseball. He was a great player, but it's too bad he wasn't comfortable being Barry Bonds. Imagine what fans would think of him if he had stayed of the juice?

PKalltheway
11-15-2007, 10:41 PM
Canseco started all this with his book, and credits himself with making steroids widespread in baseball. Canseco beat his chest and proclaimed that, not only did he take steroids, but kids should take them because there was nothing wrong with them. The piece of **** changed course was was "remorseful" when he told congress he wanted to assure kids didn't take roids.


Regardless of his intentions, that book coming out was a great thing.
I forgot about that part of the book where he said that "nothing was wrong with taking steroids." Thanks for reminding me.:thumbsup: That changed my opinion a bit. Still though, I agree with you, if that book didn't come out, baseball's hand wouldn't have been forced on the steroid issue.

TDog
11-15-2007, 11:34 PM
On my way home from class tonight while I was flipping around on the radio, I heard on the Giants flagship station a sports talk Bozo announce, "The grand jury has decided to pitch to Barry Bonds."

I thought that was funny.

chaerulez
11-16-2007, 12:26 AM
I don't agree with that. Fessed up is what HGHambi did, when he was testifying under oath. Canseco started all this with his book, and credits himself with making steroids widespread in baseball. Canseco beat his chest and proclaimed that, not only did he take steroids, but kids should take them because there was nothing wrong with them. The piece of **** changed course was was "remorseful" when he told congress he wanted to assure kids didn't take roids.

I imagine the big majority of the stuff in "Juiced" is true, but Canseco is such a shameless self promoter, such a piece of **** that much of it was greatly embellished. I know what you are saying, but I wouldn't call this "fessing up." This was an irrelevant clown under house arrest (at the time) who wrote this book to make himself a household name again, and make lots of money along with it.

Regardless of his intentions, that book coming out was a great thing.

Giambi didn't really "fess up". He still won't talk to the media about it. Then he said baseball should apologize for the steroid thing. Maybe he should start. Canseco is a loudmouth, a blowhard, and he revealed the truth for money. Works for me, at least we got the truth out there. If Canseco truly believes there is nothing wrong with steroids, good for him, at least he is being truthful. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmerio, all these guys are just cowards.

MetroPD
11-16-2007, 04:00 AM
Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmerio, all these guys are just cowards.

Agree 100%

Jjav829
11-16-2007, 07:15 AM
Never.

You don't think Bonds will be made to forfeit his records? Or that Selig will finally get some stones and take them away? (OK, I know the answer to the 2nd one already :redneck).

But surely this will all play out before Arod eventually breaks 755 himself.

soxfanatlanta
11-16-2007, 07:22 AM
Lukin13: Thanks for the insight, you brought a very good point of view to this discussion. My father-in-law and I got into a heated debate the other night about professional sports and PEDs, I was against, but he did not care if the pros took them. After some *****ing at each other, I decided to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Your post gives good insight as to why people would do it.

But this tangent will only go downhill from here.

At any rate, I'm neither glad or sad then Bonds is reaping what he sowed. I guess I'm being too cynical when I say that any professional sport with millions of dollars flying around will never be completely "clean"; it will be a game of cat and mouse from hear on out.

Jjav829
11-16-2007, 07:34 AM
As I mentioned earlier, for all of his jagbagness, there is no question a white man and a Hispanic man drove Bonds to this. Yet they skate. I don't think it's racial in this case. I think the media, The Tool and everybody else made fools of themselves worshiping Andro Boy and Soso. People are just trying to save face. Bonds is a jerk. But, I won't be happy until McGwire and Soso are publicly demolished as the complete, fraudulent scumbags they are.

Bonds is the poster boy because he has re-written the record books while on steroids. Off the top of my head, since Bonds has been on roids, he has set records for:

Home runs in a single season
Home runs in a career
Walks in a single season
OBP in a single season
SLG in a single season
OPS in a single season
Intentional walks in a single season
Intentional walks in a career

And those first two are arguably the two most cherished records in all of sports, much less baseball alone.

And while we now know how much of a cheater McGwire is, he simply isn't active. Bonds is (or was) still playing and setting records.

I'm not going to say there is absolutely no race factor in this. I'm sure there are some people who single out Bonds because he is black. But that is a very minuscule number of people. There are always going to be exceptions. The main reason Bonds gets all the attention is because of all the records he has set, the fact that he has been an active player until now and because he's a complete prick.

hi im skot
11-16-2007, 07:48 AM
I'm not going to say there is absolutely no race factor in this. I'm sure there are some people who single out Bonds because he is black. But that is a very minuscule number of people. There are always going to be exceptions. The main reason Bonds gets all the attention is because of all the records he has set, the fact that he has been an active player until now and because he's a complete prick.

I think that's got everything to do with it...

spawn
11-16-2007, 07:53 AM
I think that's got everything to do with it...
Him being a prick doesn't have everything to do with it. I think what Jjav said regarding the records Bonds has broken is the main factor. The thing that pisses me off the most, and always has, is MLB looked the other way while all of this was happening. They created and fed this monster.

Frontman
11-16-2007, 07:55 AM
You know, after sleeping on this (literally, I printed it up, I woke up with papercuts on my forehead) I've decided that those who think this will "ruin" baseball need to remember something.

Since Andro was seen in Mark's locker, the public has had a collective hunch that players were taking PEDs. We now have the highest profile player, who was the most suspected of doing so, finally taken before a judge for lying about it. Some worry that he'll roll on others, and shed light on players we might not even suspect of using, and that scares the common fan. That what if beloved players like say Jim Thome or Derek Lee are PED users?

My point/question to all those who think this is "a dark day" and it "will ruin baseball" is, you honestly didn't think he as well as others have been using for a long time? Heck, the phrase "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" has been uttered by baseball players for a long, long time. PEDs have been this generations version of excessive pine tar.

This will be a part of baseball history, no doubt. But if the NHL can survive not playing for over a year, baseball can bounce back from this. As the lines go from "Field of Dreams"

"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come."

Times have been tough for the game before, they'll be tough again down the road. But the fans love and passion for the game remains strong. The game will survive.

Nothing that happens to Bonds, or Bonds says about the game/coaches/teams/players will change the simple fact that I will buy my few tickets I can afford. Even if say Paul Konerko and Jermaine Dye are shown to be users, I'll still sit and watch my White Sox play again next year.

And the year after that.

And the year after that.

Make no mistake, we don't know how this will effect baseball. But one things for certain, on April 7, 2008; when the fireworks go off, and the team takes the field for the first time at US Cellular, we're all either going to be there, or we'll be watching/listening.

Being a fan of the game, we'll still hold onto that we love our team, we're going to support them through thick and thin.

russ99
11-16-2007, 09:33 AM
Good points. I really do wonder that something has been done to make an example out of Bonds because he's been a jerk and refused to "make nice" to the media and others surrounding baseball. Being a very high profile player has a bit to do with that too. I don't see them going after the Guillermo Pena's of the baseball world...

Also what happens if some other guy does the same thing as Bonds and gets away with it just because he kissed butt to the media and is perceived as "fan friendly"...

Honestly all these crooks should get tossed, IMO. We need a euro-style doping standard with 1st offense=6 months, 2nd=1 year, 3rd = banned for life.

If we had a real unbiased commissioner - someone like Bart Giamatti, and not a ownership puppet something would have been done long ago and things wouldn't have needed to go to a Federal level.

skottyj242
11-16-2007, 09:34 AM
He's innocent.

SOXPHILE
11-16-2007, 09:53 AM
Breaking news on ESPN says Greg Anderson was released from prison. Also, Stephen A. Smith is going on a rant about the whole thing.

The stuff you flush down the toilet each day is worth more than ANYTHING that ever spilled out of that *******'s mouth.

Fenway
11-16-2007, 10:29 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/11/16/alg_frontback_1116.jpg (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/galleries/november_front_pages/november_front_pages.html)

Mike Lupica (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/11/16/2007-11-16_barry_bonds_caught_hank_aaron_now_hes_ju.html)

Grand jury catches Bonds faster than he caught Aaron.

Bonds indicted by grand jury (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/11/16/2007-11-16_barry_bonds_indicted_for_allegedly_lying.html)

Home run king Barry Bonds, the owner of the most sacred record in sports and once considered a lock for the Hall of Fame, has been indicted for allegedly lying under oath to a grand jury about his steroid use.

mjmcend
11-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Good points. I really do wonder that something has been done to make an example out of Bonds because he's been a jerk and refused to "make nice" to the media and others surrounding baseball. Being a very high profile player has a bit to do with that too. I don't see them going after the Guillermo Pena's of the baseball world...

The Fed's don't care about that. They don't like lying in your grand jury testimony and income tax fraud.

Fenway
11-16-2007, 11:08 AM
The Fed's don't care about that. They don't like lying in your grand jury testimony and income tax fraud.

Remember Martha Stewart went to Club fed for lying to the goverment. Feds have something like a 95% conviction rate.....Barry going on vacation soon.:smile:

jabrch
11-16-2007, 11:29 AM
Lying to a Grand Jury and a federal prosecutor is a bad idea. Had he been truthful to the Grand Jury, he'd have probably gotten away with everything. Baseball had no penalty at the time for him. He'd have probably been fine. Maybe a small suspension or something - but nothing major.

Grand Juries and Federal prosecutors are vendictive nasty bunches. He's going to spend 6-18 months in prison because he was too arrogant to just tell the truth. He never figured that Balco would come crashing down and his tests he did with them could become public.

hi im skot
11-16-2007, 11:37 AM
Him being a prick doesn't have everything to do with it. I think what Jjav said regarding the records Bonds has broken is the main factor.

Yeah, you're right...I guess that was just kind of assumed.

My bad. :cool:

ChiSoxFan35
11-16-2007, 03:08 PM
Damn, I kept putting off in posting in the free agent prediction thread, and I was going to have 'out of baseball' for Bonds, wouldn't have the same pizazz now



For me personality does play a role. I don't even care about the steroids/HGH for any player anymore. But there's no doubting Barry is a douche. He acts like a jerk to his team, media, he plays the race card all the time, and is a racist. I believe it was the Kittle story, 'I don't sign for white people'?, are you serious? Could you imagine if anyone else said that about not signing for black people? The backlash would help find them out of baseball. This is ignoring the fact that we're talking about sick kids here.

Then he acted like a jerk about denying all of this stuff, taking it personally if he was asked about it, and the only reason for the accusation was race. Meanwhile, look at a guy like Giambi. He is the polar opposite, as likeable as possible with his team/media, and honest, he's chugging along fine and people hardly remember him in this regard when he was probably one of the worst users

getonbckthr
11-16-2007, 03:13 PM
You don't think Bonds will be made to forfeit his records? Or that Selig will finally get some stones and take them away? (OK, I know the answer to the 2nd one already :redneck).

But surely this will all play out before Arod eventually breaks 755 himself.
What are you gonna do take the homers away from? If you do that that means you are changing all the pitcher's stats that he hit the homers off of. What about the game winners? So do you reverse those wins to losses and change the record books? You have to leave his stats and records as is.

DumpJerry
11-16-2007, 03:24 PM
He's going to spend 6-18 months in prison because he was too arrogant to just tell the truth.
If convicted on all counts, he could face up to 30 years in The Joint. 5 for each purjury count, 10 for the obstruction.

I doubt he would get all 30, but a conviction means he and former Governor Ryan will be playing on the same prison yard softball team for at least one season.

getonbckthr
11-16-2007, 03:44 PM
I wonder can a San Francisco jury send Bonds to jail?

FarWestChicago
11-16-2007, 04:40 PM
What are you gonna do take the homers away from? If you do that that means you are changing all the pitcher's stats that he hit the homers off of. What about the game winners? So do you reverse those wins to losses and change the record books? You have to leave his stats and records as is.You are over complicating things. Just take the friggin' homers away. Strip his ass. The rest doesn't matter. Relax.

DumpJerry
11-16-2007, 04:43 PM
I wonder can a San Francisco jury send Bonds to jail?
Since Oakland is part of the Northern District of California (the region where the jury pool is drawn), I think the Oakland crowd will have no problem with it. I think if the U.S. Attorneys play up how he has brought shame to the City of San Francisco, the San Fran people on the jury won't be choking on civic pride too much to not ship him out.

doublem23
11-16-2007, 04:54 PM
This may have been posted already, but you can read the actual indictment here...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1115072bonds1.html

He's in deep, deep ****.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-16-2007, 06:11 PM
Did I miss something? What *new* evidence has the Grand Jury uncovered on Bonds? That scumbag drug dealer/trainer Greg Anderson is still sitting in jail for contempt of court charges with his mouth shut, isn't he?

I think this is all for show, the prosecutors taking one last futile swing from the heels hoping for a homerun miracle. Bonds is who they've always wanted to convict but without Anderson's testimony, their case is going nowhere.

Maybe they can squeeze Barroids into a plea deal which ought to provide MLB with enough cover to take official action against the admitted cheater's accomplishments. The asterisk on the 756 ball is just the first of many more to come for this guy. Nobody can say he didn't have it coming, especially if Barroid's cops a plea.

Daver
11-16-2007, 06:19 PM
Did I miss something? What *new* evidence has the Grand Jury uncovered on Bonds? That scumbag drug dealer/trainer Greg Anderson is still sitting in jail for contempt of court charges with his mouth shut, isn't he?

I think this is all for show, the prosecutors taking one last futile swing from the heels hoping for a homerun miracle. Bonds is who they've always wanted to convict but without Anderson's testimony, their case is going nowhere.

Maybe they can squeeze Barroids into a plea deal which ought to provide MLB with enough cover to take official action against the admitted cheater's accomplishments. The asterisk on the 756 ball is just the first of many more to come for this guy. Nobody can say he didn't have it coming, especially if Barroid's cops a plea.

Greg Anderson was released almost exactly the same time Barry was indicted.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-16-2007, 06:25 PM
Greg Anderson was released almost exactly the same time Barry was indicted.

Way cool...

There is a God.

:wink:

drewcifer
11-16-2007, 06:30 PM
Way cool...

There is a God.

:wink:

However, his lawyer says he's provided no testimony. So either he's lying, or something else really did come up ,or there's a sacrifical lamb (I guess 3 possibilities at this point).

One thing's for sure - it'll be a good show.

How do you like your burger?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/Smilies/BBQ.gif

doublem23
11-16-2007, 06:36 PM
Of course, I just had to sit through Stephen A. Smith shouting at a camera how it was "a shame" that Barry Bonds be the scapegoat for all of baseball's steroid's troubles..

:?:

Of course, my first mistake was not lighting fire to my television once Smith's face showed up, but how can this guy be serious?

Brain. Hurts.

102605
11-16-2007, 07:17 PM
I wonder can a San Francisco jury send Bonds to jail?

There are a ton of transplanted people in San Francisco.

CLR01
11-16-2007, 07:33 PM
Of course, I just had to sit through Stephen A. Smith shouting at a camera how it was "a shame" that Barry Bonds be the scapegoat for all of baseball's steroid's troubles..

:?:

Of course, my first mistake was not lighting fire to my television once Smith's face showed up, but how can this guy be serious?

Brain. Hurts.

I had to laugh when I turned on ESPN this morning to see interviews with SAS and Charles Barkley. Those were the two opinions I wanted most as soon as I heard the news come down. :rolleyes:

mjmcend
11-16-2007, 08:53 PM
Way cool...

There is a God.

:wink:

Not too mention, the Feds have something like a 95% conviction rate. They don't indict unless they are sure they can nail your ass. My guess is a plea bargain from old Barry is already in the works.

Whitesox029
11-16-2007, 09:31 PM
Somewhere, Ed Farmer is sitting around watching TVLand, drinking champagne, and making out "Indictment Party" invitations.

Frontman
11-17-2007, 06:11 AM
Somewhere, Ed Farmer is sitting around watching TVLand, drinking champagne, and making out "Indictment Party" invitations.

Him and Ron Kittle; but in Ronnie's case, I wouldn't blame him in the least to be celebrating. Farmio I like, but I don't think he ever spoke of dealing with Bonds personally.

kevin57
11-17-2007, 07:59 AM
Not too mention, the Feds have something like a 95% conviction rate. They don't indict unless they are sure they can nail your ass. My guess is a plea bargain from old Barry is already in the works.

I'd like to believe this but my guess is that a megalomaniac like Bonds just doesn't believe he did anything wrong. In his interviews he does not betray even a hint of guilt about anything. Plus, he may figure he'll roll the dice because the HOF (which he does covet) would likely be out of the picture for a convicted felon.

Interesting possibility: Barry's lawyers swing him a super sweet deal for his testimony against others in baseball and in the shabby world of 'roid rulers.

areilly
11-17-2007, 02:38 PM
Did I miss something? What *new* evidence has the Grand Jury uncovered on Bonds?

They've unearthed positive steroid tests taken by Bonds, which falls squarely in contrast to what he said on the stand about being aware of ever taking steroids. There's your perjury right there.

The logical guess is the tests were done internally at BALCO.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-17-2007, 02:46 PM
They've unearthed positive steroid tests taken by Bonds, which falls squarely in contrast to what he said on the stand about being aware of ever taking steroids. There's your perjury right there.

The logical guess is the tests were done internally at BALCO.

Glory-hog Vic Conte (owner of BALCO) says the tests his lab did didn't follow proper procedures to ensure the results were in fact Bonds' own. I'm guessing we're looking at an O.J. style defense from Bonds's lawyer.

JermaineDye05
11-18-2007, 11:26 AM
Barry Bonds won't go to jail. You can get that funny idea out of your mind right now.

A trial for Bonds would have to be in California. No celebrity can be convicted of a crime in California. It's a state law.



If this is true I'm pissed.

Link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071118downey,1,2164115.column?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

Scottiehaswheels
11-18-2007, 11:31 AM
If this is true I'm pissed.

Link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071118downey,1,2164115.column?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)From that article...
"It could be that Bonds has worn a big-league uniform for the last time. He has known for a while the Giants don't want him anymore. He now must know the other 31 teams are going to give him an intentional pass."

Really Mike? When'd MLB add 2 more teams?

voodoochile
11-18-2007, 11:36 AM
If this is true I'm pissed.

Link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071118downey,1,2164115.column?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

I am pretty sure Downey is being sarcastic...