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View Full Version : Yanks: We'll talk about A-Rod...But NOT with Boras!


spiffie
11-14-2007, 12:54 PM
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but ESPN is reporting the Yanks have indicated a willingness to talk about resigning A-Rod, but they refuse to talk to Scott Boras.

But any such deal can't take place with Boras at the table, a Yankee source said, according to the report.


"We will not negotiate with Scott Boras," the source told the Daily News. "He cannot be in the room."

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3109894

ode to veeck
11-14-2007, 12:58 PM
pretty funny since the yank-mes have done more to fuel Boras' negotiating positions than any other team in history (witness even just the desperate offer to keep Rivera at $70,000 per out)

Lip Man 1
11-14-2007, 01:10 PM
I think the Yanks will get as far with this tactic as the Sox did when they were courting Rodriguez in 2000.

Lip

TDog
11-14-2007, 01:17 PM
Boras is like the kid who ruined the game because no one wanted to play with him and he wouldn't go away.

The problem is, Boras is also like the kid who brings the only ball to play with.

Flight #24
11-14-2007, 01:33 PM
Interestingly, rotoworld reports that Arod approached them through a 3d party and theyve had discussions. TIFWLIW, but it would be nice to see Bora$$$$ removed from the equation at least once as a precedent.

Trav
11-14-2007, 01:33 PM
Boras is like the kid who ruined the game because no one wanted to play with him and he wouldn't go away.

The problem is, Boras is also like the kid who brings the only ball to play with.

He does? What do you mean?

WhiteSox5187
11-14-2007, 01:38 PM
I don't think this tactic is going anywhere, but if other teams start taking this approach (and I don't think it would be collusion if teams just individually got sick of dealing with a particular agent) it could spell the end for Boras...but I don't think that is going to happen.

I think it's become obvious now that Boras has vastly overplayed his hand and this could hurt him a lot...it's one thing to piss off the White Sox (since we don't really chase a whole lot of premier free agents anyways) it's another thing though when the Yankees are saying they're done with you. That's the biggest market in the country and if Boston knows the Yankees aren't going to be in on negotiations, why on earth would they offer some ludicrious sum of money if they know the Yankees aren't going to match it and no other team will offer anything close to that sum. It's the market at work.

The Immigrant
11-14-2007, 01:43 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sports/baseball/15yanks.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The New York Times is reporting that Rodriguez has approached the Yankees about discussing a new contract without the involvement of Boras.

WhiteSox5187
11-14-2007, 01:54 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sports/baseball/15yanks.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The New York Times is reporting that Rodriguez has approached the Yankees about discussing a new contract without the involvement of Boras.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Boras' career if A-Rod dumps him, will other players follow suit? Would Crede?

Flight #24
11-14-2007, 01:56 PM
That would really suck - to have ARod being willing to take a discount and with that he goes to one of the few teams that doesn't need to give him one.

But still, egg on Bora$$ face and a precedent for the best player in the world not abiding by his "you only meet with me" mantra is always a plus.

munchman33
11-14-2007, 02:02 PM
Perhaps no one is even close to offering what Boras wants.

palehozenychicty
11-14-2007, 02:24 PM
Perhaps no one is even close to offering what Boras wants.


Bingo. That being said, maybe Kenny will be right. About the "market correction." :redneck

ode to veeck
11-14-2007, 02:29 PM
Boras also pisses off teams with his demands on many of his prospects coming up, where he acurately figured out some years back that some of signings of college talent were way low vs the market value.

Paulwny
11-14-2007, 02:32 PM
Or Boras is putting one over on the owners,
From NY daily News:
"We realize it could be a trap to get us back in the negotiations," one Yankees official told the Daily News. "But we don't think that's the case."

Sockinchisox
11-14-2007, 03:28 PM
The Players Union is calling foul on the Yankees due to the collective-bargaining agreement, saying if a deal is going to be discussed, Boras has to be involved.

The Immigrant
11-14-2007, 03:37 PM
The Players Union is calling foul on the Yankees due to the collective-bargaining agreement, saying if a deal is going to be discussed, Boras has to be involved.

He could always fire Boras - problem solved! :redneck

Of course, if Boras advised Rodriguez to opt out of his contract with the Yankees without receiving serious indications that a better deal could be had, he deserves to be fired.

Oblong
11-14-2007, 03:38 PM
That's funny. I thought they represented the player, not the agent. Short sighted on the part of the union. I understand the "rising tide lifting all boats" theory but not in this case. ARod is such a unique talent. I dont' see his contract having much of an effect on anybody else's deal.

D. TODD
11-14-2007, 03:39 PM
I said all along even after Steinbrenner's kid spouted off that A-Rod was essentially dead to them, that I wouldn't be surprised if he still ended up back there. That's a long way away but don't ever count out the Yanks. The Angels are still my prediction for his services though.

Flight #24
11-14-2007, 04:13 PM
I don't get it. So they're saying "Player - you HAVE to have an agent for negotiations, we won't let you make your own decision"? That's bass-ackward if ever I heard it.

It's not the Yankees saying they'll negotiate with ARod, it's ARod deciding that he's willing to negotiate with the Yanks without his agent. The former may be a precursor but means nothing without the latter. Free speech entitles the Yankees to say and do what they want regarding negotiations. Free will enables Alex to comply with their request.

JermaineDye05
11-14-2007, 04:36 PM
George Offman reporting the Yanks are 'reportedly' close to re-signing A-Rod.

spiffie
11-14-2007, 04:36 PM
I don't get it. So they're saying "Player - you HAVE to have an agent for negotiations, we won't let you make your own decision"? That's bass-ackward if ever I heard it.

It's not the Yankees saying they'll negotiate with ARod, it's ARod deciding that he's willing to negotiate with the Yanks without his agent. The former may be a precursor but means nothing without the latter. Free speech entitles the Yankees to say and do what they want regarding negotiations. Free will enables Alex to comply with their request.
Problem is both free will and free speech may be secondary to the collective bargaining agreement. I don't know what the rules are, but its possible I guess that the CBA says that if a player has an agent that the agent needs to be there for discussions between the player and team.

WhiteSox5187
11-14-2007, 04:48 PM
The Players Union is calling foul on the Yankees due to the collective-bargaining agreement, saying if a deal is going to be discussed, Boras has to be involved.
That's fine, but if the Yankees don't want to negotiate with Boras, that's their buisness and their descion as well. How long before the PA whines about that??

alohafri
11-14-2007, 04:53 PM
George Offman reporting the Yanks are 'reportedly' close to re-signing A-Rod.

Dibble and Kennedy just had on one of the Yankees announcers who said it is a done deal. They (D&K) were wondering out loud if this wasn't just some form of entertainment, that he was going to re-sign with them all along.

Oblong
11-14-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't get it. So they're saying "Player - you HAVE to have an agent for negotiations, we won't let you make your own decision"? That's bass-ackward if ever I heard it.

It's not the Yankees saying they'll negotiate with ARod, it's ARod deciding that he's willing to negotiate with the Yanks without his agent. The former may be a precursor but means nothing without the latter. Free speech entitles the Yankees to say and do what they want regarding negotiations. Free will enables Alex to comply with their request.

The same reasons that prevented the trade to Boston in 2004 because ARod wanted a pay cut
When you are dealing with contracts and CBA's it's not always clear cut. Free speech doesn't really enter into it.

spiffie
11-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Dibble and Kennedy just had on one of the Yankees announcers who said it is a done deal. They (D&K) were wondering out loud if this wasn't just some form of entertainment, that he was going to re-sign with them all along.
Considering that the Yankees lose the money TX was sending them, it sure was an expensive practical joke on us all if that's the case.

AZChiSoxFan
11-14-2007, 06:12 PM
Problem is both free will and free speech may be secondary to the collective bargaining agreement. I don't know what the rules are, but its possible I guess that the CBA says that if a player has an agent that the agent needs to be there for discussions between the player and team.

Maybe A-rod will hash out a deal with the Yanks, then call Bora$$ into the room and say, we've worked out a deal and now you have two choices:

1) draw up the paperwork and collect your huge commission.
2) get lost and watch me sign a new agent.

Frontman
11-14-2007, 06:26 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Boras' career if A-Rod dumps him, will other players follow suit? Would Crede?

If Joe doesn't after seeing A-Rod get signed; then Joe is all talk, no action.

Paulwny
11-14-2007, 06:47 PM
From Newsday:

Despite reports that the Yankees would refuse to allow Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, into the negotiations, Michael Weiner, the general counsel for the Players Association, told Newsday, "the union has been assured that the Yankees will respect Alex's decision to designate Scott Boras as his representative."

drewcifer
11-14-2007, 06:51 PM
They (D&K) were wondering out loud if this wasn't just some form of entertainment, that he was going to re-sign with them all along.

Rob Dibble and Kevin Kennedy should work at waffle house. Those two never cease to completely contradict themselves and sound like complete asshats in mind-bogglingly FAST spans of time.

Within 24 hours, Dibble went from telling listeners there was no point tallying Cy Young votes for the AL since Beckett was the obvious winner, to kissing CCs big ass on the air to the same audience the next afternoon.

Having said - I listen to those two pretty much every night on the ride home from work. :redface:

Soxfest
11-15-2007, 01:25 AM
I hope the karma BOR-ASS has spread around is finally coming back to bite him in the nuts, his arrogance is beyond over the top every GM from now on should say ONLY way we talk to his clients is without Scott Boras in the room. Yankees have set the new way to deal with him! http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/gosoxretro.gif

Steelrod
11-15-2007, 02:07 AM
Or is this just another ploy, to bring the perception of another team interested, to bring the price up for the west coast suitors?

Lillian
11-15-2007, 08:29 AM
This is unbelievable. So let me get this straight. First he refuses to accept a very generous contract extension from his team. Instead, he opts out of the biggest contract in MLB history, no wait, in Sports history. He costs the Yankees the $23 Million they were getting from the Rangers. Now that it doesn't look like anyone else will give him the insane amount he wanted, he's going to go back to the Yankees. Wow, and we thought Yankee fans were pretty tough on A-Rod before this latest escapade.
I'll bet they will really turn on him the next time he slumps, or consistently fails to deliver in the clutch.
He should consider all of that before he agrees to go back there, after having done enough to "burn his bridges", if he were any other mortal human being.
Oh well, A-Rod and the Steinbrenners deserve each other.

AZChiSoxFan
11-15-2007, 10:27 AM
Or is this just another ploy, to bring the perception of another team interested, to bring the price up for the west coast suitors?

Ding Ding!!

I believe we have a winner!!

balke
11-15-2007, 10:28 AM
I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet, but I love how the Yankees look so smart now for not dealing with Boras. On Mike and Mike today they said that this was the first time someone's put him in his place or something to that affect.

Let's not forget KW and the flack he takes from fans for not dealing with Boras. The Yanks aren't the first team to do this. They may be the most important, but not the first. Its guys like Kenny who make it okay not to deal with the guy for other teams. I'm glad to see Boras put in his place, and hope more teams act accordingly.

TDog
11-15-2007, 11:35 AM
He does? What do you mean?

It's an analogy. You have to deal with Boras because he represents many of the best players. He even represents members of the White Sox. He's like the kid who only gets to play because if you didn't let him play, he would take his ball and go home.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 01:11 PM
Who to believe
From the NY Times:
Thats completely up to the player, Steinbrenner said. Hes a free citizen and he can do what he wants. I, at no time, told Boras he cant be there. The bottom line is, Im going to go as far as I want to go, regardless of whos in the room. Its no different than bidding on a racehorse at an auction.

Oblong
11-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Who to believe
From the NY Times:
.... Its no different than bidding on a racehorse at an auction.

It's gonna be a lot of fun listening to Hank in the upcoming years. This guy is making his presence known.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 01:39 PM
It's gonna be a lot of fun listening to Hank in the upcoming years. This guy is making his presence known.

He may make his old man look like a benevolent dictator.

Fenway
11-15-2007, 03:07 PM
cough cough


After spending time with Cynthia and my family over these last few weeks, it became clear to me that I needed to make an attempt to engage the Yankees regarding my future with the organization.

Prior to entering into serious negotiations with other clubs, I wanted the opportunity to share my thoughts directly with Yankees' ownership. We know there are other opportunities for us, but Cynthia and I have a foundation with the club that has brought us comfort, stability and happiness.

As a result, I reached out to the Yankees through mutual friends and conveyed that message. I also understand that I had to respond to certain Yankees concerns, and I was receptive and understanding of that situation. Cynthia and I have since spoken directly with the Steinbrenner family. During these healthy discussions, both sides were able to share honest feelings and hopes with one another, and we expect to continue this dialogue with the Yankees over the next few days.

getonbckthr
11-15-2007, 05:04 PM
I would laugh my ass off if Boston sneaks in and offers Arod 10/330 then resigns Lowell,

Trav
11-15-2007, 06:08 PM
It's an analogy. You have to deal with Boras because he represents many of the best players. He even represents members of the White Sox. He's like the kid who only gets to play because if you didn't let him play, he would take his ball and go home.

I guess I don't see it that way. I'm not defending him; I don't like Boras at all. However, the player can tell him to where to go if the player so chooses. The player is the one who is at fault and if you want to go blaming someone for the price the players demand, you should be blaming the players. Not the sleezeball agent who is doing his job. You can even blame Selig and Fehr I guess.

thomas35forever
11-15-2007, 06:56 PM
Report on ESPN: A-Rod agrees to outline of deal with Yankees

DeadMoney
11-15-2007, 06:58 PM
Report on ESPN: A-Rod agrees to outline of deal with Yankees

I'd laugh my ass off if his name comes up on the supposed Mitchell report and the reason he rushed back to the Yankees to get a deal done was for that reason. Obviously this is pure speculation, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

thomas35forever
11-15-2007, 07:08 PM
10 years/$275 million?! Holy ****.:o:

doublem23
11-15-2007, 07:11 PM
10 years/$275 million?! Holy ****.:o:

Apparently the Yankees don't believe in freak accidents or injuries.

Paying a guy nearly $30 million a year when he's 42? Yikes.

Foulke You
11-15-2007, 07:18 PM
10 years/$275 million?! Holy ****.:o:
WOW! :o::o::o: They better hope A-Rod makes one hell of a 40 yr old DH by the time that contract begins to run out.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 07:20 PM
With his commission, Boras is laughing all the way to the bank.

IlliniSox4Life
11-15-2007, 07:27 PM
It apparently also has escalator clauses if he sets the career HR record. By the time all is said and done it could be a 300 million contract.

TDog
11-15-2007, 07:44 PM
I guess I don't see it that way. I'm not defending him; I don't like Boras at all. However, the player can tell him to where to go if the player so chooses. The player is the one who is at fault and if you want to go blaming someone for the price the players demand, you should be blaming the players. Not the sleezeball agent who is doing his job. You can even blame Selig and Fehr I guess.

Players who sign with Boras sign with him because they believe he can get them the most lucrative contract. Even if they have every intention of staying with their teams, the result can be something akin to extortion. The player is complicit, certainly. Any player who hires an agent is complicit. Some agents look out more for a players' interests in non-financial ways than others. GMs know they have to deal with agents, but teams would rather not deal with Boras. They do because they have to. The players seem to benefit, at least financially.

You're right. Boras isn't necessarily scum because he is intrinsically scum or he enjoys being scum. He's the least favorite agent in baseball, the agent teams most wish they didn't have to deal with, because it's his job.

When I lived in Wisconsin, I heard a story about "the good old days" when a Packer went in to talk to Vince Lombardi about his contract. The player said Lombardi could talk to his agent and walked away. Later in the day, Lombardi told the player his agent could talk to a different team because he had been traded. I don't know how accurate, or even true, the story is, but it was repeated at work every time a Brewer's player was involved in a salary dispute.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 07:46 PM
It apparently also has escalator clauses if he sets the career HR record. By the time all is said and done it could be a 300 million contract.


I also saw this. Strange, I thought incentive clauses couldn't be tied to offensive stats. It'll be interesting how Boras pulls his magic to make this happen.

Daver
11-15-2007, 07:49 PM
I also saw this. Strange, I thought incentive clauses couldn't be tied to offensive stats. It'll be interesting how Boras pulls his magic to make this happen.


Since when?

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 07:54 PM
Since when?

I think a clause can only be for games played, plate appearences etc, non offensive numbers such as Hr's , rbi"s etc.
I'll see what I can find.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 07:56 PM
When I lived in Wisconsin, I heard a story about "the good old days" when a Packer went in to talk to Vince Lombardi about his contract. The player said Lombardi could talk to his agent and walked away. Later in the day, Lombardi told the player his agent could talk to a different team because he had been traded. I don't know how accurate, or even true, the story is, but it was repeated at work every time a Brewer's player was involved in a salary dispute.

From Wikipedia:

The details of Ringo's trade have been the subject of speculation. For years it was said that following the 1963 season, Ringo showed up in Lombardi's office, with an agent in tow, looking to negotiate a raise. Lombardi, according to this account, was so angered that he excused himself for five minutes only to return and announce that he had traded Ringo to the Eagles. Over the years it has been suggested that that story is more fiction than fact. In reality, Lombardi had probably been negotiating a trade for some time.

HomeFish
11-15-2007, 08:08 PM
Aren't incentive clauses for offensive players usually something like "finishing in the top 10 for MVP" or "making the All-Star Game", or other things that while not actually offensive stats, are usually only given to people with good offensive stats?

Maybe its a bonus if A-Rod wins the "best record-setting home run of the year" award?

mjmcend
11-15-2007, 08:58 PM
Aren't incentive clauses for offensive players usually something like "finishing in the top 10 for MVP" or "making the All-Star Game", or other things that while not actually offensive stats, are usually only given to people with good offensive stats?

Maybe its a bonus if A-Rod wins the "best record-setting home run of the year" award?

From the New York Times article, it sounds like it is not a bonus, so much as he will be given a new contract worth more money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/sports/baseball/16yankees.html?ref=baseball

The sides are discussing a marketing plan in which Rodriguez, 32, would benefit financially as he passes hallowed home run benchmarks in the coming seasons. The Yankees typically do not offer bonuses to players who make the All-Star team or win postseason awards. But Rodriguez’s pursuit of the career home run record would bring increased revenue to the Yankees, and the team is willing to share some of it with Rodriguez who has 518 home runs and is already 17th on the career list.

Paulwny
11-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Since when?

I've looked, can't locate any info but,I agree with Homefish.
I know I've read this limitation on mlb clauses a few times but, damn if I can find anything.

Paulwny
11-16-2007, 10:19 AM
Since when?

From The NY Times 11-16-07

Steinbrenner said that the team president, Randy Levine, has been in contact with Major League Baseball to make sure the bonus package complies with a rule that does not allow teams to tie payments to certain individual statistics

From NY Post 11-16-07
Since milestone clauses aren't allowed in MLB contracts, the Yankees and Rodriguez are attempting to reach a revenue-sharing type deal since the Yankees will make an ocean of sponsor money off the historic event.

From The Boston Herald 11-16-07
The sides still are working on putting together a provision that would allow Rodriguez to share revenue created by his pursuit of the career home record.
That provision must be drafted carefully because of Major League Rule 3 (b) (5), which states no contract shall be approved “if it contains a bonus for playing, pitching or batting skill or if it provides for the payment of a bonus contingent on the standing of the signing club at the end of the championship season.”