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getonbckthr
11-10-2007, 08:24 PM
If the rumor is true that Pittsburgh is interested in dealing him what would it take? Would Sweeney and Broadway work? He is due I believe 14 million over the next 2 years. Still him in LF, Sign Hunter for CF, Dye in RF. Obviously that mean trading Crede but maybe we could get a Crede and Contreras for Furcal and a RP or 3?

WhiteSox5187
11-10-2007, 09:35 PM
If the rumor is true that Pittsburgh is interested in dealing him what would it take? Would Sweeney and Broadway work? He is due I believe 14 million over the next 2 years. Still him in LF, Sign Hunter for CF, Dye in RF. Obviously that mean trading Crede but maybe we could get a Crede and Contreras for Furcal and a RP or 3?
That would be great if it happened, but I don't think it will. I think you'd need to deal more than just Sweeney and Broadway to get Bay...and I don't think a Crede/Jose for Furcal deal is going to happen.

Lip Man 1
11-10-2007, 09:43 PM
I'd love to get Bey. No harm is seeing what Pittsburgh could want.

Lip

MisterB
11-10-2007, 10:19 PM
I'd be wary. He put up pretty pedestrian numbers this season and apparently may have knee problems.

Bay's backward step a multi-part mystery (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07219/807518-63.stm)

munchman33
11-10-2007, 10:40 PM
If the rumor is true that Pittsburgh is interested in dealing him what would it take? Would Sweeney and Broadway work? He is due I believe 14 million over the next 2 years. Still him in LF, Sign Hunter for CF, Dye in RF. Obviously that mean trading Crede but maybe we could get a Crede and Contreras for Furcal and a RP or 3?

I wish people would stop saying "would Sweeney and Broadway work?"

If Sweeney and Broadway worked, we'd have made a deal already. But neither of those guys fit into our plans, and as Kenny has probably figured out, their low upside isn't going to return much in the way of a trade. Jason Bay? You'd be lucky if the Pirates gave us Jonah Bayliss for those two.

weareud
11-10-2007, 11:37 PM
I'd love to get Bey. No harm is seeing what Pittsburgh could want.

Lip


Lip:

The correct spelling of his last name is actually "Bay".

Weareud

soltrain21
11-10-2007, 11:43 PM
Lip:

The correct spelling of his last name is actually "Bay".

Weareud


Something tells me it was a typo. If you want to get techincal, your sentence should read...

The correct spelling of his last name is actually "Bay."

getonbckthr
11-11-2007, 12:04 AM
Lip:

The correct spelling of his last name is actually "Bay".

Weareud
This isn't a spelling bee. I'm sure it was a mistake and if not whats the big deal clearly you knew what he meant.

upperdeckusc
11-11-2007, 12:42 PM
Something tells me it was a typo. If you want to get techincal, your sentence should read...

The correct spelling of his last name is actually "Bay."

Touche'.

Dan Mega
11-11-2007, 02:58 PM
Something tells me it was a typo. If you want to get techincal

:rolling:

:wink:

soltrain21
11-11-2007, 03:30 PM
:rolling:

:wink:


Ha. It was late!

thomas35forever
11-11-2007, 03:32 PM
I'd love to have Bay play LF for us. If he's available, I'd get on the phone.

white sox bill
11-12-2007, 08:05 AM
I'm all for Jackson Bay on this team!:smile:

Foulke You
11-12-2007, 07:01 PM
I have always been a Jason Bay fan but admittedly, I only get to watch him play sparingly. I was in Pittsburgh for the 3 game set against the White Sox last season and I was surprised at some of the venom directed at Bay from the Pirates fans I sat near. There were quite a few catcalls directed his way and there seemed to be a festering bad vibe from the crowd every time he made an out. I asked one of the Pirates fans near me why there was so much hate for Bay all of the sudden and his response was a bit cryptic. In general, they don't believe he is as good as everyone says he is and they think he might be in decline. I couldn't get much more out of the guy than that. I was pretty taken aback because I figured he would be the #1 fan favorite there. However, I saw more Freddy Sanchez, Xavier Nady, and Jack Wilson jerseys than Bay while in PNC. It could just be a good player going through a bad season much like Dye or Konerko had last year for us or it could be that Bay might not be all he is cracked up to be. I wouldn't be too upset if KW sniffed around that to see what Pittsburgh wants for him.

goon
11-12-2007, 07:23 PM
It could just be a good player going through a bad season much like Dye or Konerko had last year for us or it could be that Bay might not be all he is cracked up to be. I wouldn't be too upset if KW sniffed around that to see what Pittsburgh wants for him.

Absolutely. Considering Jason Bay plays in an extreme pitcher's park like PNC, I think he could knock out 40-45 HR's at US Cellular. Every time I hear someone talk bad about him it's usually related to the fact they believe he lacks "passion" for the game, however, his struggles in 2007 could be connected to his offseason surgery (despite him stating otherwise). He hit 35 HR's, 29 doubles, with a .286 BA in '06. In '05 he hit 32 HR's, 44 doubles and hit .306.

I don't know if it's fair to point to one bad season and claim it as a decline. If the Pirates really want to deal Bay, I would love for Williams to look into it.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 12:16 PM
I wish people would stop saying "would Sweeney and Broadway work?"

If Sweeney and Broadway worked, we'd have made a deal already. But neither of those guys fit into our plans, and as Kenny has probably figured out, their low upside isn't going to return much in the way of a trade. Jason Bay? You'd be lucky if the Pirates gave us Jonah Bayliss for those two.

:?:

You are probably the only person on the planet that thinks Ryan Sweeney has a "low upside". Broadway, yeah he's not projected to be much more than a 5th starter, middle relief pitcher unless he can harness his two seamer...

Foulke You
11-13-2007, 12:45 PM
I don't know if it's fair to point to one bad season and claim it as a decline.
I agree completely. A lot of people thought Konerko was done after a HORRIBLE season in 2003. He has had 3 productive seasons since and one below avg. season. 2007 could just be Bay's one bad year and there could be lots of production left in him.

thomas35forever
11-13-2007, 01:36 PM
:?:

You are probably the only person on the planet that thinks Ryan Sweeney has a "low upside". Broadway, yeah he's not projected to be much more than a 5th starter, middle relief pitcher unless he can harness his two seamer...
Don't be too hasty on Broadway. Give him a full season in the majors and/or allow Coop to work with him on that pitch. I'm not saying Coop is going to develop him into an automatic 15 or 10-game winner, but he'll at least tell him what he's fully capable of. I think we were too impatient with Danks last year because we thought this team was going to win big.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 02:38 PM
Don't be too hasty on Broadway. Give him a full season in the majors and/or allow Coop to work with him on that pitch. I'm not saying Coop is going to develop him into an automatic 15 or 10-game winner, but he'll at least tell him what he's fully capable of.

I just don't see much coming from him in the future, but I hope I'm wrong. If he can harness that two seamer and cut his walks in half he could be a productive SP.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 03:35 PM
:?:

You are probably the only person on the planet that thinks Ryan Sweeney has a "low upside"

That's what scouts are saying now that it's apparent he isn't going to learn to hit for power. He doesn't have CF tools or corner power.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 03:39 PM
That's what scouts are saying now that it's apparent he isn't going to learn to hit for power. He doesn't have CF tools or corner power.

He's not going to hit for power? While I readily admit that Ryan is probably not going to hit 35- 40 homers a season anytime soon, I find it hard to believe that there is a scout consensus that he could not develop into someone who could hit 20+ consistently. He's still rather young and still filling out.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 03:51 PM
He's not going to hit for power? While I readily admit that Ryan is probably not going to hit 35- 40 homers a season anytime soon, I find it hard to believe that there is a scout consensus that he could not develop into someone who could hit 20+ consistently. He's still rather young and still filling out.

I hope he does. But he's been playing high minors for a while, and hasn't shown 20+ potential yet. And he doesn't have a ton of speed to make up for it.

Not to mention, his play in the AFL was a huge indictment on his inability to develop power.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 04:27 PM
I hope he does. But he's been playing high minors for a while, and hasn't shown 20+ potential yet. And he doesn't have a ton of speed to make up for it.

Not to mention, his play in the AFL was a huge indictment on his inability to develop power.

I wouldn't go that far, by comparison Ryan's power was showing improvement in 2006 and his injury problems had a big hand in his slight drop in 2007.

Also his AFL play is such a small sample size, I wouldn't take 70 ABs and make such a broad statement. Indictment? Not by a long shot...

munchman33
11-13-2007, 04:33 PM
I wouldn't go that far, by comparison Ryan's power was showing improvement in 2006 and his injury problems had a big hand in his slight drop in 2007.

Also his AFL play is such a small sample size, I wouldn't take 70 ABs and make such a broad statement. Indictment? Not by a long shot...

He certainly didn't help his case. His problem there wasn't getting hits. It was getting extra-base hits. Which has plagued him his entire minor league career.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 05:17 PM
He certainly didn't help his case. His problem there wasn't getting hits. It was getting extra-base hits. Which has plagued him his entire minor league career.

I'm not going to stress about it. If you look at 2006, he had 13 hrs and 25 doubles. Not exactly All-Star numbers, but it was a nice season for a 21 year old in AAA.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 05:48 PM
I'm not going to stress about it. If you look at 2006, he had 13 hrs and 25 doubles. Not exactly All-Star numbers, but it was a nice season for a 21 year old in AAA.

Maybe if he were a middle infielder. Or a leadoff option. He's neither.

The 13 homers doesn't even bother me. But 25 doubles? Ouch. At corner outfield, that number needs to double. Maybe it was the wrist thing. But the season didn't really differ all that much from what he's produced up to date in the minors. He seems stagnant at a level that isn't close to MLB ready. That's pretty troubling for a guy that was so highly touted once.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2007, 07:15 PM
Roland Hemond told me last year that Sweeney is a gap hitter with his swing, not a power guy. FWIW.

Lip

AZChiSoxFan
11-13-2007, 07:50 PM
I wish people would stop saying "would Sweeney and Broadway work?"

If Sweeney and Broadway worked, we'd have made a deal already. But neither of those guys fit into our plans, and as Kenny has probably figured out, their low upside isn't going to return much in the way of a trade. Jason Bay? You'd be lucky if the Pirates gave us Jonah Bayliss for those two.

Well, then come on Kenny. See if the Bucs will in fact give us Jonah for Sweeney and Broadway.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 07:57 PM
But the season didn't really differ all that much from what he's produced up to date in the minors. He seems stagnant at a level that isn't close to MLB ready. That's pretty troubling for a guy that was so highly touted once.

Stagnant? He's been playing against guys 3 years older than him at every level. I think you're taking his age for granted, he's still developing.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 07:57 PM
Roland Hemond told me last year that Sweeney is a gap hitter with his swing, not a power guy. FWIW.

Lip

But 25 doubles Lip? That's hardly what I'd expect from a gap hitter.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 08:00 PM
Stagnant? He's been playing against guys 3 years older than him at every level. I think you're taking his age for granted, he's still developing.

Perhaps, but players that are "still developing" generally show improvement. For Sweeney to be a major league starter, he needs to develop some sort of power, or learn to be a heck of a lot faster. He probably isn't gonna get faster, so it has to be power. And he stopped improving in that category.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Perhaps, but players that are "still developing" generally show improvement. For Sweeney to be a major league starter, he needs to develop some sort of power, or learn to be a heck of a lot faster. He probably isn't gonna get faster, so it has to be power. And he stopped improving in that category.

Give it some time, we can be patient with the kid. He is a hell of an athlete, has a cannon of an arm and has a nice swing.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 08:06 PM
Give it some time, we can be patient with the kid. He is a hell of an athlete, has a cannon of an arm and has a nice swing.

Well, it's not like we've got a lot going down in the minors. Wouldn't hurt to hold onto him I guess. Like I said before, he's got very little value in trades.

rdivaldi
11-13-2007, 08:12 PM
Well, it's not like we've got a lot going down in the minors. Wouldn't hurt to hold onto him I guess. Like I said before, he's got very little value in trades.

I think you'd be surprised. Scouts have watched Sweeney sail through the minors and they recognize his natural athleticism. I'd say that his trade value is at a low point right now, but he still has value.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 08:17 PM
I think you'd be surprised. Scouts have watched Sweeney sail through the minors and they recognize his natural athleticism. I'd say that his trade value is at a low point right now, but he still has value.

Okay. The Jason Bay for Sweeney and Broadway thing was pretty ridiculous, and that's what set me off about it.

I am all for giving him more time, if for no other reason than to increase his trade value.

Domeshot17
11-13-2007, 08:25 PM
I know the only elite prospect we have is DLS, but is Sweeney even above a B Spec right now? It sounds like he isnt even on the Gio plane of "could make an all star game or 2" and is more on the "maybe he could be a starter but looks like a fourth OF" type.

munchman33
11-13-2007, 08:42 PM
I know the only elite prospect we have is DLS, but is Sweeney even above a B Spec right now? It sounds like he isnt even on the Gio plane of "could make an all star game or 2" and is more on the "maybe he could be a starter but looks like a fourth OF" type.

In a five star system, BA recently tagged him as a two star prospect, and fading fast. If he doesn't develop power, they'll remove him from the list next year.

Fautino was our only five star guy. Gio and Poreda were fours.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2007, 09:15 PM
Munch:

Depends on your definition. Hemond (and yours truly) consider a "gap hitter" a guy who hits a lot of doubles and occasional triples. A guy who drives balls into the alleys instead of over the fence. (And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)

Roland said over time he thought Sweeney could develop into a 20 homer guy. (I don't know if you think that makes him a home run hitter or not...)

Lip

munchman33
11-13-2007, 09:24 PM
Munch:

Depends on your definition. Hemond (and yours truly) consider a "gap hitter" a guy who hits a lot of doubles and occasional triples. A guy who drives balls into the alleys instead of over the fence. (And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)

Roland said over time he thought Sweeney could develop into a 20 homer guy. (I don't know if you think that makes him a home run hitter or not...)

Lip

Honestly, if he hits 10 homers I wouldn't care. I just don't think he hits enough extra base hits total to be a corner outfielder. That's where his "power" needs to improve big time. Maybe I should stop using the word power.

He needs to flat out slug better. If you're a gap hitter, then put the ball in the gap more.

rdivaldi
11-14-2007, 10:37 AM
I know the only elite prospect we have is DLS, but is Sweeney even above a B Spec right now? It sounds like he isnt even on the Gio plane of "could make an all star game or 2" and is more on the "maybe he could be a starter but looks like a fourth OF" type.

I think you can throw Gio in the "elite" level with DLS, but yes Sweeney has taken quite a tumble. Next year is important for him in terms of his future with or without the organization.