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Marqhead
11-06-2007, 08:59 PM
Via ESPN Kenny Williams has acknowledged that he is listening to offers for Crede.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3097929

Subnote: How bout he swings a deal for Cabrera?

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2007, 09:06 PM
In other news, the sun rose and set today.

It's part of a GM's job to "listen" to offers from other teams. So if a reporter asks him if he's listening to offers, if he's truthful he will tell the reporter "yes."

KW did not come out and say that he was actively shopping Crede.

Marqhead
11-06-2007, 09:07 PM
In other news, the sun rose and set today.

It's part of a GM's job to "listen" to offers from other teams. So if a reporter asks him if he's listening to offers, if he's truthful he will tell the reporter "yes."

KW did not come out and say that he was actively shopping Crede.

I'm sorry for doing you great personal harm by posting this.

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2007, 09:11 PM
I'm sorry for doing you great personal harm by posting this.

You did me no harm. I'm sorry if my sarcastic reply offended you - my sarcasm was directed at the writer of the story, not you for posting the link.
:cool:

Daver
11-06-2007, 09:11 PM
I'm sorry for doing you great personal harm by posting this.

Just a quick question for all the "Experts" that know Crede will be traded before the start of next season, can you provide me with a list of GM's that are stupid enough to trade for a player that has played zero games after back surgery?

It would be appreciated.

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Just a quick question for all the "Experts" that know Crede will be traded before the start of next season, can you provide me with a list of GM's that are stupid enough to trade for a player that has played zero games after back surgery?

It would be appreciated.

Daver, I have a sincere question for you. If you were KW, and Cashman offered you Damon for Crede, would you do the deal?

Daver
11-06-2007, 09:16 PM
Daver, I have a sincere question for you. If you were KW, and Cashman offered you Damon for Crede, would you do the deal?

Yes I would, provided the Yankees payed 90% of Damon's contract and threw in a minor league player to be named later, with no tie on that player to Damon's performance.

Otherwise, no.

oeo
11-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Just a quick question for all the "Experts" that know Crede will be traded before the start of next season, can you provide me with a list of GM's that are stupid enough to trade for a player that has played zero games after back surgery?

It would be appreciated.

According to Kenny Williams, GMs 'across the league.'

"We have two third basemen. There's interest across the league in both of them," Williams said.

pierzynski07
11-06-2007, 09:23 PM
Yes I would, provided the Yankees payed 90% of Damon's contract and threw in a minor league player to be named later, with no tie on that player to Damon's performance.

Otherwise, no.
FTR, that's Damon, $23.4 million, and a minor leaguer for Crede.

DoItForDanPasqua
11-06-2007, 09:28 PM
As much as I would hate to see Crede go, the reality is that he will be a free agent and is represented by Scott Boras. The Sox have a young (read cheap) capable third baseman in Josh Fields. If there are any serious offers, KW is going to have to do it.

Daver
11-06-2007, 09:30 PM
As much as I would hate to see Crede go, the reality is that he will be a free agent and is represented by Scott Boras. The Sox have a young (read cheap) capable third baseman in Josh Fields. If there are any serious offers, KW is going to have to do it.

Josh Fields is capable at best.

Marqhead
11-06-2007, 10:02 PM
Josh Fields is capable at best.

Alex Cintron is more than qualified.

infohawk
11-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Yes I would, provided the Yankees payed 90% of Damon's contract and threw in a minor league player to be named later, with no tie on that player to Damon's performance.

Otherwise, no.
I was watching Comcast Sportsnet tonight and they were talking with Farmio about how he think things will shake out for the Sox. He said he's almost positive they'll exercise the option on Uribe (hope he's wrong), but he also said something that made a certain degree of sense to me. In addressing the notion of a Crede for Damon trade, Farmer said that if KW really wants Torii Hunter, he would be making a mistake in first doing a deal with the Yankees for Damon because it might actually increase the possibility of the Yankees landing Torii. The thinking is that if the Yankees trade Damon they not only get his contract off the books (making it easier to afford Hunter) but they also open-up the centerfield position. I will say that I am assuming that KW would want Damon for left, not center.

champagne030
11-06-2007, 10:13 PM
According to Kenny Williams, GMs 'across the league.'

And Boras says there's high interest in A-Rod. Sounds like a GM trying to make a market for a player. :dunno:

Tragg
11-06-2007, 10:37 PM
If we have 2 third basemen, why in the world was Fields playing LF for 6 weeks?

Brian26
11-06-2007, 10:39 PM
If we have 2 third basemen, why in the world was Fields playing LF for 6 weeks?

Because we had our fourth-string shortstop playing third, of course.

The Immigrant
11-06-2007, 11:05 PM
I was watching Comcast Sportsnet tonight and they were talking with Farmio about how he think things will shake out for the Sox.

Farmio should stick to talking about golf and Notre Dame football. My guess is that he's "in the know" about as much as Nancy Faust.

dickallen15
11-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Farmio should stick to talking about golf and Notre Dame football. My guess is that he's "in the know" about as much as Nancy Faust.
When Schueler was the GM, he was in the know with him. They were roommates for a couple of years here.

ShoelessJoeS
11-06-2007, 11:24 PM
Josh Fields is capable at best.I agree. No doubt his bat is valuable... but if Crede is gone, his glove will surely be missed.

WhiteSox5187
11-06-2007, 11:39 PM
I agree. No doubt his bat is valuable... but if Crede is gone, his glove will surely be missed.
Yep...see, I am worried that if we trade Josh and keep Crede we will have his glove, but we will have the 2004 version of Crede (just looking at the way he swings hurts my back) and if we trade Crede we will lose the defense. Ultimately I think we can win with a gold glove caliber third baseman who isn't hitting, but not a silver slugger third baseman who isn't hitting.

As for the whole Miguel Cabrera thing, the guy is in his twenties and is already having trouble keeping in shape. He's the next Manny except not as good. I think he'd make a descent DH, but will kill you anywhere in the field.

Brian26
11-06-2007, 11:45 PM
People are giving up on Crede too quickly. He played for two years while hurt and still looked in '06 like he was going to turn into a 40hr guy, along with the stellar glove. I wouldn't count him out.

JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 11:51 PM
Yep...see, I am worried that if we trade Josh and keep Crede we will have his glove, but we will have the 2004 version of Crede (just looking at the way he swings hurts my back) and if we trade Crede we will lose the defense. Ultimately I think we can win with a gold glove caliber third baseman who isn't hitting, but not a silver slugger third baseman who isn't hitting.

As for the whole Miguel Cabrera thing, the guy is in his twenties and is already having trouble keeping in shape. He's the next Manny except not as good. I think he'd make a descent DH, but will kill you anywhere in the field.

I say we go with Fields, he really looks to be the future of this team. Being a feared member of the lineup, and I think his defense will only get better. We've seen flashes of his fielding capabilities at times (The play against Seattle back in August and the play on Lew Ford back in 2006), yes he has had his share of errors in the field but I think with time those will go away. Crede, coming off back surgery, I'm really not sure how much range he will have and what his offensive capabilities will be.

Tragg
11-06-2007, 11:53 PM
People are giving up on Crede too quickly. He played for two years while hurt and still looked in '06 like he was going to turn into a 40hr guy, along with the stellar glove. I wouldn't count him out.
I absolutely wouldn't give him away. I'd be happy going into the season with he and Fields.
I think Fields on the bench would help this talent-challenged bench a lot. (I'd like to see him get time at 1B). There will be plenty of opportunity for him to play as Crede and Thome definitely will need rest, and Konerko needs some at times too.

Frontman
11-06-2007, 11:54 PM
People are giving up on Crede too quickly. He played for two years while hurt and still looked in '06 like he was going to turn into a 40hr guy, along with the stellar glove. I wouldn't count him out.

Have you realized who's Crede's agent? THAT's a major reason that the fans (as well as the Sox themselves) have "given up" on Joe. Boras is a pain in the rear to deal with, and look no further than how he handled A-rod's departure from the Yankees as how much of a grade A turdload he is.

And before anyone gives Joe's "the agent works for me" quote; here's a bit of information:

ALL AGENTS WORK FOR THEIR CLIENTS!!!

Joe likes the deals Boras has gotten him. If pushed came to shove, Joe is going where the money is.

esbrechtel
11-07-2007, 01:26 AM
Have you realized who's Crede's agent? THAT's a major reason that the fans (as well as the Sox themselves) have "given up" on Joe. Boras is a pain in the rear to deal with, and look no further than how he handled A-rod's departure from the Yankees as how much of a grade A turdload he is.

And before anyone gives Joe's "the agent works for me" quote; here's a bit of information:

ALL AGENTS WORK FOR THEIR CLIENTS!!!

Joe likes the deals Boras has gotten him. If pushed came to shove, Joe is going where the money is.

As probably the largest Crede supporter on this site I wish I could say I disagree with you :(: He has said, "I want to stay in Chicago, I will change representation," Personally, I'm afraid Joe has never heard the ol' "actions speak louder than words expression"....dont tell me, Joe, show me...only then do I even think the sox have a remote chance at keeping Crede, might as well get something for him.

WhiteSox5187
11-07-2007, 01:48 AM
Have you realized who's Crede's agent? THAT's a major reason that the fans (as well as the Sox themselves) have "given up" on Joe. Boras is a pain in the rear to deal with, and look no further than how he handled A-rod's departure from the Yankees as how much of a grade A turdload he is.

And before anyone gives Joe's "the agent works for me" quote; here's a bit of information:

ALL AGENTS WORK FOR THEIR CLIENTS!!!

Joe likes the deals Boras has gotten him. If pushed came to shove, Joe is going where the money is.
I agree with this...I'm not so sure how representation works, but I'd be curious to see if the Sox made Crede an offer how would Boras handle it seeing as how he is busy working with the A-Rod circus currently? I always wondered if back in '04 and early '05 if Crede felt like he was being ignored by Boras. I'm willing to bet he started to recieve a lot more calls in the post season and '06 though.

ilsox7
11-07-2007, 01:54 AM
Whats with all the Crede love? Wasn't He the one who refused to have back surgery after 06, after the sox requested for him to do it? And then the sox paid for him to rehab in 07. And now he's hinting around that he's going to try the free agent market in 09! The sox should cut him loose and get what they can for him now. Fields can handle it.

Sorry. But finding fault in a guy who wanted to try every possible option before letting someone take a knife to his back doesn't fly.

Nellie_Fox
11-07-2007, 02:12 AM
Sorry, But we aren't talking MAJOR surgery here; just a small incision, which was revealed earlier last season. So yes, it doesn't fly.ALL surgery carries risk; back surgery carries great risk. Even a small incision carries a danger of infection, and a spinal infection is definitely not a good thing.

ilsox7
11-07-2007, 02:14 AM
ALL surgery carries risk; back surgery carries great risk. Even a small incision carries a danger of infection, and a spinal infection is definitely not a good thing.

Just b/c a surgery involves a small incision does not mean it's minor. This link (http://www.spine-health.com/topics/surg/overview/lumbar/lumb03.html)even states that you should do what you can to try to heal without going under the knife. Anyone with common sense would rather not have someone take a knife to their back if other options are available that could cure the injury.

ChiSoxFan35
11-07-2007, 03:48 AM
NY sports radio had an update where they focused on Crede since he's talked about a lot. The Yankees beat guy said he didn't like the idea, thought it was too risky for the injury history (although he said Kenny says he has been completely cleared)

They then played a clip from Kenny at the meetings, he said he's in a good position, as it's not like it's a need that Crede be dealt, so he's not going to just go out and give him up for anything

Frontman
11-07-2007, 07:30 AM
As probably the largest Crede supporter on this site I wish I could say I disagree with you :(: He has said, "I want to stay in Chicago, I will change representation," Personally, I'm afraid Joe has never heard the ol' "actions speak louder than words expression"....dont tell me, Joe, show me...only then do I even think the sox have a remote chance at keeping Crede, might as well get something for him.

Crede as a person, I love to death. The way he plays the game, love him for that. But his choice in agent, combined that the whole situation reminds me of Magglio and his injury status; frustrates me beyond compare. And if Joe says he's willing to "test" Free Agent status come 2009?

I can handle the botched play or two from Fields and get something for Joe now. Like any player from 2005, thanks for the memories; Sox fans will always love you, but we want the Sox to have every chance of winning, not holding onto a nostalgia laced team that isn't competitive anymore.

Law11
11-07-2007, 11:01 AM
If we have 2 third basemen, why in the world was Fields playing LF for 6 weeks?

I thought it was to get him used to LF for next year so they could play crede at 3rd showing the league his capabilities coming off the injury. This way both bats would be in the lineup.

Nellie_Fox
11-07-2007, 04:28 PM
Agreed, all surgery's can carry risk. But so do cortisone injections, which are steroid shots if i remember correctly.Far less than surgery. And they are corticosteroids, or catabolic steroids, not anabolic steroids. Big difference.

JRIG
11-07-2007, 04:35 PM
Bruce Levine just reported that KW told him Fields has to be a 3B and he won't be heading back to LF in '08. That's why Crede is on the block.

Of course, that also brings up the question who KW has in mind for LF next year.

PatK
11-07-2007, 04:38 PM
I forsee some crazy 3-4 team trade that involves us trading Konerko for Cabrera.

NorthSideSox72
11-07-2007, 04:40 PM
Bruce Levine just reported that KW told him Fields has to be a 3B and he won't be heading back to LF in '08. That's why Crede is on the block.

Of course, that also brings up the question who KW has in mind for LF next year.
Sorry Bruce, but I don't believe for a second that KW told you, a media blabbermouth, that a player HAS to be traded. I don't believe that for a second. Even if it were true, no GM would ever put themselves in that kind of position.

JRIG
11-07-2007, 04:43 PM
Sorry Bruce, but I don't believe for a second that KW told you, a media blabbermouth, that a player HAS to be traded. I don't believe that for a second. Even if it were true, no GM would ever put themselves in that kind of position.

Maybe I didn't explain correctly. Apparently, KW didn't tell him that Crede has to be traded, just that Fields won't be in LF. Obviously one option is to move Crede. Another scenario he mentioned was a Konerko deal with Fields moving over to 1B and Crede staying at 3B.

Frontman
11-07-2007, 04:50 PM
Bruce Levine just reported that KW told him Fields has to be a 3B and he won't be heading back to LF in '08. That's why Crede is on the block.

Of course, that also brings up the question who KW has in mind for LF next year.

Bruce is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He might of imagined the whole thing! :wink:

Flight #24
11-07-2007, 04:56 PM
Maybe I didn't explain correctly. Apparently, KW didn't tell him that Crede has to be traded, just that Fields won't be in LF. Obviously one option is to move Crede. Another scenario he mentioned was a Konerko deal with Fields moving over to 1B and Crede staying at 3B.

That's an interesting one.

- Konerko to LAAA for a package including relief pitching and prospects (frees up $12M). Prospects could be of the MIF variety (Wood/Aybar), or possibly a CF (Figgins) or SS (Cabrera), but that saves less $$$.

- Sign Hunter for CF or Eckstein for SS (depending on if you get an SS or CF from LAAA).

- Crede plays 3B with the prospect playing SS and Uribe as insurance for both. Alternately, Uribe's insurance for Crede.

- Owens goes to LF, setting the stage for a lineup of Owens(LF)-Fields(1B)-Thome(DH)-Dye(RF)-Hunter(CF)-AJ(C)-Crede(3B)-LAAA Prospect(SS)-Richar(2B). Speed and balance are improved but power is down. And you plugged the relief hole as well and are relatively cost-neutral.

Or you trade Konerko for relief pitching and Figgins, saving $7M. Trade Contreras to LAAA or NYM for an LF, saving $10M. Bump payroll from the current projected $95M to $110M and plonk all that $$$ in front of ARod. Figgins(CF)-Fields(1B)-ARod(SS)-Thome(DH)-Dye(RF)-AJ(C)-Crede(3B)-LF-Richar(2B) with Burls-Javy-Garland-Danks-Floyd/Gio and a pen that's been plugged with the LAAA relief arms.

Domeshot17
11-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Why we would trade Konerko over Crede is beyond me. Konerko makes about par what he should, and will be here. He is the most under rated DEFENSIVE 1b in the game, and one of the better offensive ones. Crede is a great defender and an over rated hitter. He WON'T be here beyond 2008 because of who his agent is. So would you rather have Konerko and Fields for several years, or Fields and lose Konerko and Crede in 2 years?

Sockinchisox
11-07-2007, 07:16 PM
ESPN 1000 is reporting Kenny contacted Boras about a long-term contract with Crede and Boras said Crede is "not interested in signing a long term contract".

oeo
11-07-2007, 07:21 PM
Why we would trade Konerko over Crede is beyond me. Konerko makes about par what he should, and will be here. He is the most under rated DEFENSIVE 1b in the game, and one of the better offensive ones. Crede is a great defender and an over rated hitter. He WON'T be here beyond 2008 because of who his agent is. So would you rather have Konerko and Fields for several years, or Fields and lose Konerko and Crede in 2 years?

Well, I guess if you figure that Konerko can fill a few holes, while Crede might be able to fill one.

We would lose a lot of production by losing Konerko, though. So we'd better be seeing upgrades elsewhere.

ESPN 1000 is reporting Kenny contacted Boras about a long-term contract with Crede and Boras said Crede is "not interested in signing a long term contract".

Probably because he would get a lowball offer (as well he should). He has to earn his money in 2008.

Tragg
11-07-2007, 08:12 PM
Why we would trade Konerko over Crede is beyond me. Konerko makes about par what he should, and will be here.
Because he'd bring a lot more in return.
I agree with your assessment of Konerko.

Frontman
11-07-2007, 08:20 PM
ESPN 1000 is reporting Kenny contacted Boras about a long-term contract with Crede and Boras said Crede is "not interested in signing a long term contract".

Then honestly, Kenny shouldn't even bother with Joe. I'm sorry, but if he doesn't want long term, he wants money. Go play money ball elsewhere.

Thanks for the memories Joe, but I can get behind and root for Josh just the same.

ode to veeck
11-07-2007, 08:55 PM
Josh Fields is capable at best.

It's a stretch at that. We need him in LF and a healthy Crede at 3B.

Daver
11-07-2007, 08:59 PM
It's a stretch at that. We need him in LF and a healthy Crede at 3B.

Fields plays LF like my ass chews gum.

Frater Perdurabo
11-07-2007, 09:12 PM
Fields plays LF like my ass chews gum.

That's gross no matter how talented your rear end may be. Rectum? Dang near killed 'em!

Frater Perdurabo
11-07-2007, 09:13 PM
Fields plays LF like my ass chews gum.

Serious question, Daver: If Crede comes back and can return to form at 3B, what would you do with Fields?

Daver
11-07-2007, 09:26 PM
Serious question, Daver: If Crede comes back and can return to form at 3B, what would you do with Fields?

Depends really, if Crede proves to be healthy through 2008, I'd resign him long term, and trade Fields, Crede is going to play at least ten more years if his back is healthy, and Fields will never be close to him defensively. The other alternative would be to trade Konerko now, before he becomes untradeable, and make Fields the first baseman, the downside being Josh is not going to give you the production Paul does, and Paul is a pretty good defensive first baseman.

Frater Perdurabo
11-07-2007, 09:38 PM
Depends really, if Crede proves to be healthy through 2008, I'd resign him long term, and trade Fields, Crede is going to play at least ten more years if his back is healthy, and Fields will never be close to him defensively. The other alternative would be to trade Konerko now, before he becomes untradeable, and make Fields the first baseman, the downside being Josh is not going to give you the production Paul does, and Paul is a pretty good defensive first baseman.

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but do you think Fields could develop into an adequate defensive first baseman? Do you think his hitting has peaked, or does he have more room to grow as a hitter? What kind of a hitter do you see him becoming?

Daver
11-07-2007, 09:58 PM
Sorry to bombard you with questions, but do you think Fields could develop into an adequate defensive first baseman? Do you think his hitting has peaked, or does he have more room to grow as a hitter? What kind of a hitter do you see him becoming?

A pitcher can be an adequate first baseman, so what are you asking?

Josh Fields is gonna hit, I can see a .280 30 HR guy on average for him.

Hitmen77
11-07-2007, 10:04 PM
ESPN 1000 is reporting Kenny contacted Boras about a long-term contract with Crede and Boras said Crede is "not interested in signing a long term contract".

I find this hard to believe. Why would a player still unproven coming off back surgery say no to a long-term contract offer?

There are two things I highly doubt in this report. 1 - that KW is actually offering Joe a long term contract and 2 - if he did, that Joe would flat out say no.

103 screwball
11-07-2007, 11:12 PM
I don't buy this either. This sounds like spin to keep the Crede fans from being as upset when he is traded. Joe has given us some great memories.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 11:47 PM
I find this hard to believe. Why would a player still unproven coming off back surgery say no to a long-term contract offer?

There are two things I highly doubt in this report. 1 - that KW is actually offering Joe a long term contract and 2 - if he did, that Joe would flat out say no.

Say Kenny offered 5 years, $25 million. Fair because of the incredible risk. Ridiculous compared to what Crede is worth.

Lip Man 1
11-08-2007, 12:36 AM
Soxinchisox:

I don't think anyone should be surprised over this 'development.'

Lip

Lip Man 1
11-08-2007, 12:41 AM
White Sox.com has a story on this and Kenny makes some really "interesting" comments.

I don't know if he's serious or not but if Crede is still with the team come opening day Fields may very well be back in Triple A. Kenny said he is simply NOT going to play him anymore in left field and brings up the minor league possibility himself.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071107&content_id=2295651&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Also talks about discussions with Joe's agent and basically says they didn't go well. (I don't know why anyone would be surprised over this, but that's just me...)

Lip

CashMan
11-08-2007, 12:47 AM
White Sox.com has a story on this and Kenny makes some really "interesting" comments.

I don't know if he's serious or not but if Crede is still with the team come opening day Fields may very well be back in Triple A. Kenny said he is simply NOT going to play him anymore in left field and brings up the minor league possibility himself.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071107&content_id=2295651&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Also talks about discussions with Joe's agent and basically says they didn't go well. (I don't know why anyone would be surprised over this, but that's just me...)

Lip

Just like last winter when he said McCarthy would go to tripleA rather that being forced to trade 1 of the 6 starters. He is pretty much saying i can keep Fields and Crede, I don't have to trade one, driving up the price of one of them.

Noneck
11-08-2007, 12:49 AM
One stays , One leaves. Not a big shock.

thedudeabides
11-08-2007, 12:52 AM
Just like last winter when he said McCarthy would go to tripleA rather that being forced to trade 1 of the 6 starters. He is pretty much saying i can keep Fields and Crede, I don't have to trade one, driving up the price of one of them.

Exactly. They would have to field quite a team to afford sending Josh down.

mcfish
11-08-2007, 01:13 AM
Exactly. They would have to field quite a team to afford sending Josh down.They would have to have 10 capable starters if they kept Crede anyway, so sending one of them (Fields) to AAA wouldn't be that crazy. If they go into the season counting on Crede's back to hold up without any backup plan they're crazy.

Zisk77
11-08-2007, 01:15 AM
Maybe kenny is trying to "force" Joe's hand in getting rid of Borass if he wants to stay a pale hose?

munchman33
11-08-2007, 01:29 AM
One stays , One leaves.

Kenny needs to lay off the Harry Potter.

gobears1987
11-08-2007, 01:44 AM
Shopping Crede is a smart idea.

He will be an FA next year and Boras is his agent. Given my knowledge of the surgery he had, I would say that he may never regain his 2006 form. He could of course recover and have a great career, and it is just as likely his back issues will flare up again.

southsideirish71
11-08-2007, 01:48 AM
Maybe kenny is trying to "force" Joe's hand in getting rid of Borass if he wants to stay a pale hose?

Joe listened to his agent over Kenny and the sox last year when the sox wanted to do offseason surgery. We know who Joe listens to.

Joe didnt hire Boras for any other reason but to make bags of money that he can roll around in. Players do not hire Boras so they can get a home town discount, or stay with their team. Boras gets his players to FA, and then pimps them like the second coming to maximize money for them. He got Jeff Weaver lots of money for being bad. Joe Crede will be pimped as the second coming of Brooks Robinson next year. Joe could of fired Boras anytime now. Do you really think he will do it now. He loves lots of money more than he loves the sox.

Domeshot17
11-08-2007, 02:00 AM
Joe listened to his agent over Kenny and the sox last year when the sox wanted to do offseason surgery. We know who Joe listens to.

Joe didnt hire Boras for any other reason but to make bags of money that he can roll around in. Players do not hire Boras so they can get a home town discount, or stay with their team. Boras gets his players to FA, and then pimps them like the second coming to maximize money for them. He got Jeff Weaver lots of money for being bad. Joe Crede will be pimped as the second coming of Brooks Robinson next year. Joe could of fired Boras anytime now. Do you really think he will do it now. He loves lots of money more than he loves the sox.

Joe with Boras = 5/65 on the market I bet next year.

Joe worth= 3/27

WSox597
11-08-2007, 07:28 AM
If Crede is healthy, they need to find a place for Fields.

How can anyone talk of sending Fields to AAA when Cintron and Gonzalez are still walking around in Sox uniforms?

Frater Perdurabo
11-08-2007, 07:32 AM
A pitcher can be an adequate first baseman, so what are you asking?

OK, then let me rephrase: Can Josh Fields develop into a good defensive first baseman?

jabrch
11-08-2007, 08:50 AM
How can anyone talk of sending Fields to AAA when Cintron and Gonzalez are still walking around in Sox uniforms?

Because Fields is in the plan to be an everyday player, if not to start off this season, then soon. So he needs to get everyday ABs. Cintron and Gonzalez are bench players. They can stay on the big league roster and not get ABs everyday and not retard a development plan.

The best 25 players don't always make the major league roster.

skobabe8
11-08-2007, 08:54 AM
OK, then let me rephrase: Can Josh Fields develop into a good defensive first baseman?

Unfortunately Crede has been a bargain for a few years now. He wants his payday.

hi im skot
11-08-2007, 08:57 AM
Joe listened to his agent over Kenny and the sox last year when the sox wanted to do offseason surgery. We know who Joe listens to.

Joe didnt hire Boras for any other reason but to make bags of money that he can roll around in. Players do not hire Boras so they can get a home town discount, or stay with their team. Boras gets his players to FA, and then pimps them like the second coming to maximize money for them. He got Jeff Weaver lots of money for being bad. Joe Crede will be pimped as the second coming of Brooks Robinson next year. Joe could of fired Boras anytime now. Do you really think he will do it now. He loves lots of money more than he loves the sox.

Joe wanted to avoid a risky surgery. He took a chance, and it didn't work out. Would you want to go under the knife, thus guaranteeing that your season is over, and also acknowledging that, as with any surgery, there's a risk that your livelihood could disappear in the blink of an eye?

I've got to admit, I love your high and mighty, know-it-all opinion of Joe Crede and his "love" of money. If Joe can hit the free agent market and make a boatload of money, setting himself up for a very comfortable life, who are we to judge him? The Sox have been good to him, and he has been good to them. If he moves on, I don't think it's fair to villianize him.

Also, can you cite a reason why Joe should have fired Scott Boras? Yes, we fans know he's pretty much a scumbag, but do you think he's done anything that personally affected Crede and warrants a termination of his services?

You do not know Joe Crede, so I would recommend pretending like you do.

SBSoxFan
11-08-2007, 09:52 AM
Also talks about discussions with Joe's agent and basically says they didn't go well. (I don't know why anyone would be surprised over this, but that's just me...)

Lip

This was an old discussion.

Williams also addressed an attempt he made last season to talk with Scott Boras, Crede's agent, concerning the possibility of a multiyear deal shortly after Crede had undergone season-ending back surgery.However, if their intent then was to play out 2008 and see what FA brings, then I don't know what might change their mind now.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
11-08-2007, 10:08 AM
I think Kenny is waiting for ARod and Lowell to sign before moving Crede to get more value for him.

southsideirish71
11-08-2007, 10:43 AM
Joe wanted to avoid a risky surgery. He took a chance, and it didn't work out. Would you want to go under the knife, thus guaranteeing that your season is over, and also acknowledging that, as with any surgery, there's a risk that your livelihood could disappear in the blink of an eye?

I've got to admit, I love your high and mighty, know-it-all opinion of Joe Crede and his "love" of money. If Joe can hit the free agent market and make a boatload of money, setting himself up for a very comfortable life, who are we to judge him? The Sox have been good to him, and he has been good to them. If he moves on, I don't think it's fair to villianize him.

Also, can you cite a reason why Joe should have fired Scott Boras? Yes, we fans know he's pretty much a scumbag, but do you think he's done anything that personally affected Crede and warrants a termination of his services?

You do not know Joe Crede, so I would recommend pretending like you do.

There are lots of agents who get good contracts for their people. There is one specifically that operates in such a way that its only to maximize monetary value. Joe selected him. I dont need to know Joe Crede to put together a reason why Boras was selected. I am also not saying this is a bad thing, if I was a player I would want Boras as my agent. He definitely maximizes what you get on return.

Joe will go to Free Agency, because thats what Boras does. He gets through the arbitration years with one year deals, and tries to get to the Free Agency where he can get his player max years and max money.

Hitmen77
11-08-2007, 10:48 AM
If Fields is now officially not in the mix for LF, where does that leave the Sox in terms of filling holes in their roster? Even assuming the Sox sign one of the free agent CFs out there (at likely a very high price), that still leaves Owens, Uribe, and Richar all in our lineup unless other moves are made.

I know Richar has potential and Owens looked respectable for a rookie last year and Uribe is Uribe. But, does anyone else have a serious concern with the Sox going into 2008 with all 3 of these guys in our starting lineup?

russ99
11-08-2007, 11:06 AM
Joe wanted to avoid a risky surgery. He took a chance, and it didn't work out. Would you want to go under the knife, thus guaranteeing that your season is over, and also acknowledging that, as with any surgery, there's a risk that your livelihood could disappear in the blink of an eye?

I've got to admit, I love your high and mighty, know-it-all opinion of Joe Crede and his "love" of money. If Joe can hit the free agent market and make a boatload of money, setting himself up for a very comfortable life, who are we to judge him? The Sox have been good to him, and he has been good to them. If he moves on, I don't think it's fair to villianize him.

Also, can you cite a reason why Joe should have fired Scott Boras? Yes, we fans know he's pretty much a scumbag, but do you think he's done anything that personally affected Crede and warrants a termination of his services?

You do not know Joe Crede, so I would recommend pretending like you do.

The way Boras works is that he places absolutely no value on having a player stay with his original team. And why would he, when he can maximize the player's contract (and his cut) with a big contract from a new team than have the player take less to stay with his old team.

Honestly, I can't think of really any decent FAs that Boras represents that have re-signed with their original teams.

Crede knows this and continues to have Boras represent him, which to me files in the face of any comments about how he wants to stay with the Sox. Other players (Carlos Lee for one) have changed agents when realizing that Boras' views differ from their own and Crede has not.

There's no reason to believe that there's any chance that Crede will be with the Sox in 2009, and Kenny is making moves that he has to based on that.

veeter
11-08-2007, 11:26 AM
It hit me that Crede possibly holds some resentment in the back of his mind, towards the Sox, for drafting Fields in the first place. That may be why he would make it tough on the Sox to re-sign him. But, in 2004 Joe was very inconsistent at the plate. Clutch yes, but inconsistent. His defense was very good, but not like it is now. So the Sox decision was justified. We'll see what happens.

russ99
11-08-2007, 11:31 AM
It hit me that Crede possibly holds some resentment in the back of his mind, towards the Sox, for drafting Fields in the first place. That may be why he would make it tough on the Sox to re-sign him. But, in 2004 Joe was very inconsistent at the plate. Clutch yes, but inconsistent. His defense was very good, but not like it is now. So the Sox decision was justified. We'll see what happens.

Honestly, I think it has much more to do with how the Sox treated their potential free agents in the past with guys like Thomas and Ordoņez.

If you were going to be a FA in 2 years with that track record, would you trust what the Sox were saying, especially if you had injury concerns just like the Hurt and Magglio had?

veeter
11-08-2007, 11:35 AM
Honestly, I think it has much more to do with how the Sox treated their potential free agents in the past with guys like Thomas and Ordoņez.

If you were going to be a FA in 2 years with that track record, would you trust what the Sox were saying, especially if you had injury concerns just like the Hurt and Magglio had?They offered a sore kneed Ordonez, a five year contract. That's not bad treatment, is it? And the whole Frank thing was a soap opera that went both ways. I don't feel the Sox mistreat potential free agents. Tell me what I'm missing.

russ99
11-08-2007, 11:38 AM
They offered a sore kneed Ordonez, a five year contract. That's not bad treatment, is it? And the whole Frank thing was a soap opera that went both ways. I don't feel the Sox mistreat potential free agents. Tell me what I'm missing.

Let's just say things weren't rosy between parties. Also, lots of conflicting reports between the players doctors and the Sox doctors being used to each parties advantage, just like last offseason with Crede.

Maybe Joe keeps Boras partially to cut through all that stuff, when another agent would go with what the Sox want to do.

Since then things have been better with Paul, Mark and Jermaine, so I can also see where you're coming from, but neither of the three of them signed for market value (or more precisely what they could have gotten as FAs) or have long-term injury concerns.

Domeshot17
11-08-2007, 12:00 PM
Let's just say things weren't rosy between parties. Also, lots of conflicting reports between the players doctors and the Sox doctors being used to each parties advantage, just like last offseason with Crede.

Maybe Joe keeps Boras partially to cut through all that stuff, when another agent would go with what the Sox want to to.

Since then things have been better with Paul, Mark and Jermaine, so I can also see where you're coming from, but neither of the three of them signed for market value (or more precisely what they could have gotten as FAs) or have long-term injury concerns.


And if you deal Konerko, everything that has gotten better is now gone.

Trading him basically tells anyone who wants to sign or resign here, feel free, but you aren't safe.

champagne030
11-08-2007, 12:14 PM
If Fields is now officially not in the mix for LF, where does that leave the Sox in terms of filling holes in their roster? Even assuming the Sox sign one of the free agent CFs out there (at likely a very high price), that still leaves Owens, Uribe, and Richar all in our lineup unless other moves are made.

I know Richar has potential and Owens looked respectable for a rookie last year and Uribe is Uribe. But, does anyone else have a serious concern with the Sox going into 2008 with all 3 of these guys in our starting lineup?

Yes. :(:

Flight #24
11-08-2007, 12:19 PM
IMO the most telling piece is that when they had discussions, Borass told KW that they wantd to play it out - didn't even make any indication of what it could take to sign Joe. That tells me that Joe doesn't place that high a value on staying, which runs counter to what he'd said earlier and is disappointing. It's his perogative, but it's disappointing.

mcfish
11-08-2007, 12:23 PM
It hit me that Crede possibly holds some resentment in the back of his mind, towards the Sox, for drafting Fields in the first place. That may be why he would make it tough on the Sox to re-sign him. But, in 2004 Joe was very inconsistent at the plate. Clutch yes, but inconsistent. His defense was very good, but not like it is now. So the Sox decision was justified. We'll see what happens.Not a chance. Baseball is completely different from every other major sport in terms of player development and drafting. Drafting a guy doesn't mean you want to replace the current player at the position at all. The Sox have 6 minor league teams (I know of), so they need 6 other starting 3B. There is no way the Sox drafted Fields specifically to replace Crede - they probably did it because they looked at their other 6 minor league starters at 3B and didn't see much depth or MLB potential. So they drafted Fields to start to address a position at which they had no depth.

oeo
11-08-2007, 12:27 PM
IMO the most telling piece is that when they had discussions, Borass told KW that they wantd to play it out - didn't even make any indication of what it could take to sign Joe. That tells me that Joe doesn't place that high a value on staying, which runs counter to what he'd said earlier and is disappointing. It's his perogative, but it's disappointing.

He wants to earn his money, what's wrong with that?

You have to understand that he's taking a risk, too. What if his back is still a major issue? He may end up in a worse situation than if he signed a deal with the Sox right now. OTOH, if his back no longer bothers him, he can cash in.

He must feel like he's completely healthy and can earn more money this year...nothing wrong with that.

veeter
11-08-2007, 01:00 PM
Not a chance. Baseball is completely different from every other major sport in terms of player development and drafting. Drafting a guy doesn't mean you want to replace the current player at the position at all. The Sox have 6 minor league teams (I know of), so they need 6 other starting 3B. There is no way the Sox drafted Fields specifically to replace Crede - they probably did it because they looked at their other 6 minor league starters at 3B and didn't see much depth or MLB potential. So they drafted Fields to start to address a position at which they had no depth.Yes, but they drafted him in the first round. Hardly a message of roster filling in the low minors.

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 01:01 PM
Yes, but they drafted him in the first round. Hardly a message of roster filling in the low minors.

The Sox felt Fields was the best player available at the time they picked. Simple as that.

veeter
11-08-2007, 01:03 PM
The Sox felt Fields was the best player available at the time they picked. Simple as that.Not a chance that Crede was not living up to expectations?

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 01:05 PM
Not a chance that Crede was not living up to expectations?

Why, so they could have a replacement in a few years?

veeter
11-08-2007, 01:08 PM
Why, so they could have a replacement in a few years?Well, some first rounders come up after only a year. But I think the decision was like, "If Josh makes it and we already have Joe, it's a great problem to have."

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Well, some first rounders come up after only a year. But I think the decision was like, "If Josh makes it and we already have Joe, it's a great problem to have."

Possibly. I view it more as a this-is-an-exceptional-athlete-with-a-high-ceiling sort of pick.

veeter
11-08-2007, 01:13 PM
Possibly. I view it more as a this-is-an-exceptional-athlete-with-a-high-ceiling sort of pick.Agreed, with the football(QB) background and all. Man, are we splitting hairs or what. We need some exciting news already.

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 01:17 PM
Agreed, with the football(QB) background and all. Man, are we splitting hairs or what. We need some exciting news already.

Let's start some wild rumors. Here, I'll go first:

I heard that the Crede-Damon deal is as good as done except it is being held-up from the most unusual of places: Jim Thome's wife! Apparently, Damon and her used to be an item back when Damon was in the minors. Thome "swept her off her feet" and Damon was crushed. Remember that Beard of Shame he wore for a whole season? Nearly a career-ender. Anyway, Ozzie caught wind of this (his gardener used to work for the clubhouse manager in Kansas City) and is concerned team chemistry could be impacted.

southsideirish71
11-08-2007, 01:21 PM
Let's start some wild rumors. Here, I'll go first:

I heard that the Crede-Damon deal is as good as done except it is being held-up from the most unusual of places: Jim Thome's wife! Apparently, Damon and her used to be an item back when Damon was in the minors. Thome "swept her off her feet" and Damon was crushed. Remember that Beard of Shame he wore for a whole season? Nearly a career-ender. Anyway, Ozzie caught wind of this (his gardener used to work for the clubhouse manager in Kansas City) and is concerned team chemistry could be impacted.

The fact that Damon had the sox listed on his no trade clause also was a wrinkle.
:D:

veeter
11-08-2007, 01:23 PM
Let's start some wild rumors. Here, I'll go first:

I heard that the Crede-Damon deal is as good as done except it is being held-up from the most unusual of places: Jim Thome's wife! Apparently, Damon and her used to be an item back when Damon was in the minors. Thome "swept her off her feet" and Damon was crushed. Remember that Beard of Shame he wore for a whole season? Nearly a career-ender. Anyway, Ozzie caught wind of this (his gardener used to work for the clubhouse manager in Kansas City) and is concerned team chemistry could be impacted.So, it was the wife. I thought it was Damon's 'jerk-store' comment. Thome didn't like that at all.

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 01:25 PM
The fact that Damon had the sox listed on his no trade clause also was a wrinkle.
:D:

Why do you think he had the Sox on the list? He only added it once he heard Thome was going to Chicago. That's why the Phillies were taken off the list.

Flight #24
11-08-2007, 04:45 PM
He wants to earn his money, what's wrong with that?

You have to understand that he's taking a risk, too. What if his back is still a major issue? He may end up in a worse situation than if he signed a deal with the Sox right now. OTOH, if his back no longer bothers him, he can cash in.

He must feel like he's completely healthy and can earn more money this year...nothing wrong with that.

If you want to stay, then you say "I'd like to stay and I'd like a contract worth X". If you want to max out, then you say "I want to hit the market". A guy who doesn't even give the team an indication of what he'd like doesn't seem to be that interested in staying. If Joe said "I want a Konerko deal because I think I'll show I'm fully healthy", that would be different - but no indication at all is a bad sign.

CHIsoxNation
11-08-2007, 04:49 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already but it sounds like Damon isn't going anywhere.

The New York Yankees left fielder emerged from morning meetings Wednesday with general manager Brian Cashman and manager Joe Girardi convinced he will begin 2008 as the Yankees' leadoff hitter and left fielder, all but ending speculation that New York would try to trade him and get out from under the final two seasons of his contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/11/07/gm.meetings.wednesday/index.html

DickAllen72
11-08-2007, 05:01 PM
Unfortunately Crede has been a bargain for a few years now. He wants his payday.
A bargain?

The Sox patiently put up with Crede's growing pains in the years prior to 2005 and even the first part of 2005. The Sox paid him money to develop.

Then, just when he begins paying dividends on the investment the Sox put into him, he sustains a back injury that puts him out for most of the 2007 season which causes him to sit around, eventually have surgery and then rehab all on the Sox' dollar. (None of this is Crede's fault mind you, but it is what it is.)

If anything, you could say the Sox have been investing millions in Crede over the past five years, and now they want a return on their investment.