PDA

View Full Version : Uribe back


VenturaFan23
11-07-2007, 12:18 PM
ESPN radio just announced that the Sox have picked up Uribe's option.

****.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 12:19 PM
:rolling:

spawn
11-07-2007, 12:21 PM
Uh oh...


:ducks:

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 12:21 PM
No real shocker here. By not picking up the option, Sox are rolling the dice that they can find a replacement by free agency/trade. By picking it up, they retain his rights and they can still work on a trade. If they can't get a trade done, worse case scenario is Uribe is back next year. I would rather have him than Gonzales or some other goon.

palehozenychicty
11-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Nothing to see here.

Frontman
11-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Just because they picked up his option doesn't mean he'll play a single game in 2008. They just needed to make a decision, they did.

spawn
11-07-2007, 12:24 PM
No real shocker here. By not picking up the option, Sox are rolling the dice that they can find a replacement by free agency/trade. By picking it up, they retain his rights and they can still work on a trade. If they can't get a trade done, worse case scenario is Uribe is back next year. I would rather have him than Gonzales or some other goon.
Word.

chisoxjtrain
11-07-2007, 12:24 PM
:whiner::puking:

This is not a good sign.

Lip Man 1
11-07-2007, 12:24 PM
There's an old saying, 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...'

How many times are the Sox going to allow Uribe to 'fool' them?

Let's hope as suggested, there may be more to this in the coming weeks.

Lip

spiffie
11-07-2007, 12:25 PM
I'll bet anyone on this board a dollar that Uribe is our starting SS on Opening Day 2008.

I expect a statement soon where they say that it has been made clear to Juan he needs to show committment this offseason and get in shape. Something about how he was unfocused last offseason and this season he'll be much better prepared. Possibly something about how he intended to be more patient at the plate this year. Add in a comment about how he's the best fielding SS in baseball in the team's opinion and you have PREDICTABLE BINGO!

A fine start to an offseason that we all hoped would lead to a faster team that gets on base more.

diehardRLsoxfan
11-07-2007, 12:31 PM
If we do upgrade at SS now do you think we will attempt to trade Uribe? What will his role be otherwise?

102605
11-07-2007, 12:31 PM
I'm starting to "stop believing". How much is he going to make?

Domeshot17
11-07-2007, 12:32 PM
I want to hope a lot changes, but I just have this gut feeling this is the start of a whole bunch of talk and not a lot of action offseason.

Hopefully Kenny can get some upgrades in, but yah, We pick up Uribe's option and commit 5.5 million to him, The GM meetings end tomorrow and all we heard was how we would come in and make a quick move, and here we are a day before GMs go home until december trying to create value by Crede by saying how much interest there is in him and still with Uribe.

Who knows maybe we are just planting the seeds, but this could be a very long year.

Palehose13
11-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Meh.

It could be worse...Right?


Right? :unsure:

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 12:34 PM
It sounds like they brought him back for a little less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304

AM 1000 said $4.5m.

HomeFish
11-07-2007, 12:36 PM
Enjoy WSI while you can, soon it will be lost to fire as the members riot over this move.

dickallen15
11-07-2007, 12:36 PM
It sounds like they brought him back for a little less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304

AM 1000 said $4.5m.
Good, that $500,000 can go toward bringing Mike Meyers back. They need to entice people to go to the park in 2008. More souvenirs in the bleachers might help.

Risk
11-07-2007, 12:37 PM
It sounds like they brought him back for a little less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304

AM 1000 said $4.5m.

That would be approximately $4.5M too much.

Risk

nccwsfan
11-07-2007, 12:38 PM
The SS position is set, so there's one less thing to worry about for 2008.

Juan Uribe is our SS, so there's one more thing to worry about for 2008.


If something else happens (trade) that's great, but I'm with the others who think SS is now set and focus will be on CF, LF, bullpen, etc.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:38 PM
Might as well bring back Pods,Don't stop at Uribe K.W

Lip Man 1
11-07-2007, 12:38 PM
The Sox desperately need balance in the lineup, they simply MUST have guys in the top two and bottom two spots of the order who can get on base, run, bunt, steal....Juan Uribe does NONE of the things that Ozzie himself strongly said, he wants to do next season.

On the surface this move makes absolutely ZERO sense...however there may be more to come in the future, perhaps using Uribe as part of a trade.

I certainly hope someone is willing to take an out of shape, free swinging strike out machine off our hands.

Lip

October26
11-07-2007, 12:40 PM
Okay, well this is not the news I wanted to hear today. C'mon Kenny give me some good news...

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:40 PM
Good, that $500,000 can go toward bringing Mike Meyers back. They need to entice people to go to the park in 2008. More souvenirs in the bleachers might help.
Yea ,I'm going to renew just so i can see a fat lazy shortstop play.But hey Hawk said he's one of the best defensive S.S in baseball.I'm convinced.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:41 PM
The Sox desperately need balance in the lineup, they simply MUST have guys in the top two and bottom two spots of the order who can get on base, run, bunt, steal....Juan Uribe does NONE of the things that Ozzie himself strongly said, he wants to do next season.

On the surface this move makes absolutely ZERO sense...however there may be more to come in the future, perhaps using Uribe as part of a trade.

I certainly hope someone is willing to take an out of shape, free swinging strike out machine off our hands.

Lip
Who would want him?

spiffie
11-07-2007, 12:43 PM
Might as well bring back Pods,Don't stop at Uribe K.W
I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring Pods back. He's not likely to get much of a raise, so he would only cost them $3-3.5 million. Considering they just spent 4.5 million on Juan Uribe that's really a pittance.

Palehose13
11-07-2007, 12:45 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring Pods back. He's not likely to get much of a raise, so he would only cost them $3-3.5 million. Considering they just spent 4.5 million on Juan Uribe that's really a pittance.

I wish only a few million was chump change in my profession. :(:

Viva Medias B's
11-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Why Kenny why?

drewcifer
11-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Might as well bring back Pods,Don't stop at Uribe K.W

LOL - My sentiments exactly...

VenturaFan23
11-07-2007, 12:46 PM
If the contract is $1 per hack, then I'd say he's way underpaid!

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 12:46 PM
It sounds like they brought him back for a little less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304

AM 1000 said $4.5m.

if it would have been 2.5-3 mil, i would have been lessed pissed than I am now. we need to pawn him off ASAP, maybe shop him as a 2b or somethin. either way, we need a trade for hu, wood/aybar, lillibridge, cabrera, ANYONE NOT NAMED URIBE!!!!

cbotnyse
11-07-2007, 12:47 PM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/cbotnyse/smiley/maddown.gif

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:47 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring Pods back. He's not likely to get much of a raise, so he would only cost them $3-3.5 million. Considering they just spent 4.5 million on Juan Uribe that's really a pittance.
Actually me neither.(Don't know the font for half sarcasm).So basically now the Sox are stuck with 2 clogs Uribe and Jose .C

JorgeFabregas
11-07-2007, 12:48 PM
So, they wrote a new contract. It'd be nice if they could get some incentive to lower his weight a la Schilling.

wassagstdu
11-07-2007, 12:49 PM
On the surface this move makes absolutely ZERO sense...however there may be more to come in the future, perhaps using Uribe as part of a trade.

I certainly hope someone is willing to take an out of shape, free swinging strike out machine off our hands.

One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?

JorgeFabregas
11-07-2007, 12:50 PM
This reminds me of when they brought Pods back last year. KW said "we couldn't find anyone else" or something to that effect.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:52 PM
Well,question is now that S.S has been solved,where do you get a leadoff man?Basically IMO the Sox have 2 choices.sign Pods ,or trade Crede.Getting both Cabrera and Hunter right now is a pipe dream.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 12:55 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/Smilies/popcorn.gif

spiffie
11-07-2007, 12:56 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?
Yay, he hits 20 HR! Take any major league player, tell them to simply go up and swing from the heels at any pitch between your ankles and your eyeballs, and they will most likely hit 20 or more HR. And sadly Juan has not been one of the best fielding SS the last year or two. Particularly last year he was noticeably slower at getting to balls and skipping a lot more throws to first.

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 12:56 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?

The reason only a White Sox fan would think nobody would want him, is because we are the only fans who have had to watch him play every day for the last two years.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 12:58 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?
Is he really one of the best or is it opinion?He's not even the best shortstop in the division.Thats just my opinion.

voodoochile
11-07-2007, 12:59 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?

Yeah, I don't quite get the wailing and gnashing of teeth either.

Uribe will probably have a better year this coming season simply because he won't have the distractions that plagued him to start last year. Should make it easier to concentrate on getting in shape and playing baseball knowing he won't have to defend himself against murder charges.

If he plays up to the standards he has prior to last year, he will be a bargain. I actually expect that to happen, but if the Sox sign another SS Uribe still offers a backup plan in case Richar fails dramatically at 2B.

He'll be batting 8th anyway, it's not like the Sox will need the 8th slot to be an AS bat and if they do, they are way past screwed...

Rockin Robin
11-07-2007, 01:01 PM
****.

Thats pretty much all I have to say about the matter.

Domeshot17
11-07-2007, 01:01 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?

Are you kidding? 20 HR in this day and age means nothing. Hell pods hit 12, Damon has hit over 20. Its about more then homers. He doesn't get on for our real hitters to knock him in, he has no work ethic, hes lazy in the field (and that is why he is not one of the best fielding SS in the MLB, or even remotely close). Uribe could be good, but doesn't care enough to want to be.

I think though, Kenny does believe he is awesome, and is drinkin from that Kool-Aid.

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 01:04 PM
The SS position is set, so there's one less thing to worry about for 2008.

Juan Uribe is our SS, so there's one more thing to worry about for 2008.


If something else happens (trade) that's great, but I'm with the others who think SS is now set and focus will be on CF, LF, bullpen, etc.

Um, what?

Have you had access to White Sox games the past few years? He's awful, he's an automatic out who has no idea how to get on base or to not strikeout.

Rex Grossman is our QB?

Uribe will probably have a better year this coming season simply because he won't have the distractions that plagued him to start last year. Should make it easier to concentrate on getting in shape and playing baseball knowing he won't have to defend himself against murder charges.

The best thing is it'll be the 3rd straight offseason where he's been re-focused and gotten himself in better shape. I can't wait.

thomas35forever
11-07-2007, 01:04 PM
Ahhh! What are they thinking?! I've wanted him gone since the end of '06. I guess we can forget about Eckstein or Furcal.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 01:06 PM
Yeah, I don't quite get the wailing and gnashing of teeth either.

Uribe will probably have a better year this coming season simply because he won't have the distractions that plagued him to start last year. Should make it easier to concentrate on getting in shape and playing baseball knowing he won't have to defend himself against murder charges.

If he plays up to the standards he has prior to last year, he will be a bargain. I actually expect that to happen, but if the Sox sign another SS Uribe still offers a backup plan in case Richar fails dramatically at 2B.

He'll be batting 8th anyway, it's not like the Sox will need the 8th slot to be an AS bat and if they do, they are way past screwed...
What was his "distraction" in 2006? Don't think 2 years of subpar play should be rewarded.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 01:08 PM
Are you kidding? 20 HR in this day and age means nothing. Hell pods hit 12, Damon has hit over 20. Its about more then homers. He doesn't get on for our real hitters to knock him in, he has no work ethic, hes lazy in the field (and that is why he is not one of the best fielding SS in the MLB, or even remotely close). Uribe could be good, but doesn't care enough to want to be.

I think though, Kenny does believe he is awesome, and is drinkin from that Kool-Aid.
I woulnd't be shocked if it was more Ozzie pulling to bring him back.Even though Ozzie has been on him at times,Ozzie seems to be a real fan of Uribes.

BainesHOF
11-07-2007, 01:11 PM
Very disappointing.

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 01:18 PM
Uribe's averages 2006-2007

.234/.270/.417, 97 Ks in 488 at-bats (~5 AB/K)

JRIG
11-07-2007, 01:23 PM
Rosenthal (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49) now has it as well.

Dick Allen
11-07-2007, 01:24 PM
:angry: At least he's better than Andy Gonzalez. Wait a minute, I'M better than Andy Gonzalez.

SoxSon
11-07-2007, 01:25 PM
The Daily Herald is reporting that the Sox have signed Juan Uribe to a 1-year deal for 2008 for $4.5 million. Has anyone else heard this news.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 01:25 PM
No, thats news to me. I wonder how people on here will react to the news.

WhiteSox5187
11-07-2007, 01:26 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?
I'm sorry, are you refering to the Juan Uribe that plays on the Chicago White Sox??

Hopefully this is part of some sort of deal that moves Uribe, as Lip has said the Sox NEED to have guys at the bottom of the order who can get things done and Uribe has shown consistently of late that he is incapable of doing a damn thing ESPECIALLY when it counts, he has also clearly lost a step in the field and goes at ground balls poorly (everything is to the side, does he EVER square up on a ball?) the only thing he has going for him is his cannon for an arm which is just as likely to launch into the dugout as to Konerko's mitt. Big moves HAVE to happen this off season. This team HAS to get better and I fail to see how bringing back Uribe improves this team in any way shape or form. If we fail to land any free agents and continue to count on Pods at leadoff, Owens in center and Uribe at short, there is absolutely no reason why Kenny Williams should be GM of this team.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 01:26 PM
The Daily Herald is reporting that the Sox have signed Juan Uribe to a 1-year deal for 2008 for $4.5 million. Has anyone else heard this news.
Nope...not a word...

Zisk77
11-07-2007, 01:26 PM
Who?

HawkDJ
11-07-2007, 01:28 PM
I'm shocked people actually think KW would not resign him. That would be taking a huge gamble that you can get better talent. If not, you're stuck with one of the worst players in baseball, Andy Gonzalez.

Rocky Soprano
11-07-2007, 01:30 PM
Isn't he in jail cause of some shooting incident?

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 01:31 PM
I love this line in the press release...

Uribe, who recorded the final two outs of the 2005 World Series,...


:rolling:

SBSoxFan
11-07-2007, 01:31 PM
No, thats news to me. I wonder how people on here will react to the news.

:rolling:

WhiteSox5187
11-07-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm shocked people actually think KW would not resign him. That would be taking a huge gamble that you can get better talent. If not, you're stuck with one of the worst players in baseball, Andy Gonzalez.
You're stuck with one of hte worst players in baseball with Uribe too...Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Andy Gonzalez here, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Uribe is a top-tier player. He's not even mediocre. He has all the tools to be a great ballplayer but he doesn't utilize them.

Flight #24
11-07-2007, 01:33 PM
Best case scenario: They go out and get an upgrade at SS and Uribe's a $4.5M utility IF/insurance policy.

Worst case scenario: They lowball ptential SS replacements because Juan's in the fold, effectively ensuring that he's the only SS option for 2008.

One potential scenario here is that if they include Fields in a trade they could view Uribe as insurance for Crede if the back goes out again. IMO he's a better option at 3B than Ozuna or Gonzalez (or Dick Allen for that matter).

SoxSon
11-07-2007, 01:36 PM
I wonder if getting Uribe signed increases his trade value since he is now under contract? I'm not convinced his signing is a statement about his role on the team in '08.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 01:36 PM
IMO,K.W would be making a serious mistake if he ever traded Fields.

Corlose 15
11-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Meh, It's something they needed to do. If you're trying to improve a position and helping to trade to improve that position, it helps your leverage to in fact have a backup plan. Uribe is that.


Considering the numerous amounts of chances Willie Harris got from fans here, I'm kind of suprised Uribe is getting such hate. At least Juan can hit the ball out of the infield.:tongue:

Gammons Peter
11-07-2007, 01:38 PM
World Series game 4, 9th inning hero, Juan Uribe ?....never heard of him

pmck003
11-07-2007, 01:39 PM
I guess its just as good as Eckstein. Outside a trade, there wasn't anyone available and without Uribe the Sox lose leverage.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 01:40 PM
Are you kidding?

foxsports.com

The White Sox considered a variety of shortstop options before re-signing Uribe, including potential free agents Omar Vizquel and David Eckstein. Vizquel is close to re-signing with the Giants for approximately $5.5 million.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 01:40 PM
****.

****.

****.

Sorry guys, I meant to say ****.

champagne030
11-07-2007, 01:41 PM
Is this the same Uribe that moonlights as a sumo wrestler in the offseason?

dickallen15
11-07-2007, 01:41 PM
I'm sorry, are you refering to the Juan Uribe that plays on the Chicago White Sox??

Hopefully this is part of some sort of deal that moves Uribe, as Lip has said the Sox NEED to have guys at the bottom of the order who can get things done and Uribe has shown consistently of late that he is incapable of doing a damn thing ESPECIALLY when it counts, he has also clearly lost a step in the field and goes at ground balls poorly (everything is to the side, does he EVER square up on a ball?) the only thing he has going for him is his cannon for an arm which is just as likely to launch into the dugout as to Konerko's mitt. Big moves HAVE to happen this off season. This team HAS to get better and I fail to see how bringing back Uribe improves this team in any way shape or form. If we fail to land any free agents and continue to count on Pods at leadoff, Owens in center and Uribe at short, there is absolutely no reason why Kenny Williams should be GM of this team.

Yeah, the White Sox simply cannot win with Juan Uribe at SS...Oh wait, I forgot. There is no reasonable trade option that is a clear upgrade. Go get Furcal, he's $13 million and signed for 1 more year and coming off an ankle injury that almost required surgery, Wilson was benched by the Pirates, he came back hit over .400 the last 2 months to make his numbers look good and he's owed a ton of money. Greene may be an upgrade, but he doesn't get on base all that much either, and he is going to cost the White Sox players. Spend the money on a real upgrade, not some hopefully if everything goes right thing.

oeo
11-07-2007, 01:42 PM
There's an old saying, 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...'

How many times are the Sox going to allow Uribe to 'fool' them?

Let's hope as suggested, there may be more to this in the coming weeks.

Lip

GMAB...Kenny wanted Renteria, wanted Vizquel, and wants Brandon Wood. It's obvious that they're trying to move in a different direction. But what if they can't find a replacement? Who are we going to throw out there?

I dislike Uribe as much as the next guy, but at this very moment, if they couldn't work out a deal for a new SS, it's the right move to pick up his option. In a week or two, there may be regrets, but right now we need a viable shortstop. Uribe isn't the best, but he's better than Andy Gonzalez.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 01:44 PM
Is this the same Uribe that moonlights as a sumo wrestler in the offseason?
No that's Miguel Cabrera. The Marlins want to trade him because he weighs 450 pounds.

Rocky Soprano
11-07-2007, 01:44 PM
No that's Miguel Cabrera. The Marlins want to trade him because he weighs 450 pounds.

LMAO!

WhiteSox5187
11-07-2007, 01:46 PM
Yeah, the White Sox simply cannot win with Juan Uribe at SS...Oh wait, I forgot. There is no reasonable trade option that is a clear upgrade. Go get Furcal, he's $13 million and signed for 1 more year and coming off an ankle injury that almost required surgery, Wilson was benched by the Pirates, he came back hit over .400 the last 2 months to make his numbers look good and he's owed a ton of money. Greene may be an upgrade, but he doesn't get on base all that much either, and he is going to cost the White Sox players. Spend the money on a real upgrade, not some hopefully if everything goes right thing.
There is no reasonable trade right now that won't cost the Sox money...but David Eckstein is a better choice at shortstop than Uribe, Christ, Vizquel might be a better option at short! I'd rather take a chance with Furcal or even Wilson. Wilson had a great last two months of the season, that's better than Uribe who had a decent September and an awful rest of the year...I'm tired of waiting for Uribe to get his act together. It is clear that he is not the same guy he was in 2005. Why this is, I'm not sure, but I'm tired of the continue gamble that he'll return to his '05 form. It was clear in the second half of '06 that this was a different (and not very good) version of Juan Uribe. And it was painfully clear throughout all of 2007. We shouldn't be at all surprised if Uribe comes out and has a lousy '08. Not at all...but then again, hopefully he IS just a backup plan. But I don't think he is, I think Kenny is gambling on Uribe to have an '05 caliber season and I see no reason to hold that hope.

Tragg
11-07-2007, 01:52 PM
Meh.

It could be worse...Right?


Right? :unsure:

True
They could have picked up Erstad's option. Or Myers'.
Or re-sign Cintron

soxfanatlanta
11-07-2007, 01:59 PM
Linky (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=72589)


Surprised? No

We're stuck with him for another year, what can you do? :dunno:

tebman
11-07-2007, 01:59 PM
GMAB...Kenny wanted Renteria, wanted Vizquel, and wants Brandon Wood. It's obvious that they're trying to move in a different direction. But what if they can't find a replacement? Who are we going to throw out there?

I dislike Uribe as much as the next guy, but at this very moment, if they couldn't work out a deal for a new SS, it's the right move to pick up his option. In a week or two, there may be regrets, but right now we need a viable shortstop. Uribe isn't the best, but he's better than Andy Gonzalez.
Just say no to Andy Gonzalez. :cower:

Uribe makes me crazy for all the reasons already posted, but I agree -- who are the Sox going to throw out there? I can't imagine that KW thinks that this is the end of the shortstop quest. If he can make a deal, he'll do it, but Uribe's all they've got if a deal can't be worked out.

I don't like it either, but this is where we're at.

MsSoxVixen22
11-07-2007, 02:00 PM
I'm sorry, I'm not happy about this one bit! Uribe has his moments when he plays well but then he also sometimes plays like ****! Hopefully Uribe will get it t/g in the offseason...

Bob G
11-07-2007, 02:04 PM
This was not a surprise at all - you could see it coming after we lost out on Renteria. That was the move that should have been made. I don't know how hard KW tried - Detroit got him for two prospects (pretty good ones I understand) but KW could have made a better offer if he wanted.

Lip Man 1
11-07-2007, 02:05 PM
Zombie:

He could be part of a deal. I'm not saying he'll be traded straight up for another shortstop.

Lip

oeo
11-07-2007, 02:08 PM
True
They could have picked up Erstad's option. Or Myers'.
Or re-sign Cintron

You guys are unbelievable. I remember when the majority wanted Cintron as our starting shortstop. Now everyone hates the guy because he had one year which was injury plagued, and had a ton of family issues. Cintron is not a bad bench player.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Zombie:

He could be part of a deal. I'm not saying he'll be traded straight up for another shortstop.

Lip
I understand that.But I'm looking over the league,who is really in need of Uribe?

Lip Man 1
11-07-2007, 02:16 PM
OEO:

I understand your position which is why I'm waiting before making my own final decision on this move but also consider this, AGAIN it seems like there is a disconnect somewhat between the G.M. and the field manager.

During this season repeatedly, Ozzie publicly stated that he can't bunt or hit and run (to use two specific examples) because the team simply can't execute these things.

Then this off season Ozzie makes a highly publicized statement saying that this team WILL get back to the basics for 2008. That he was tired of 200 home runs a year as the only way to score runs, that he was tired of all the strike outs.

Ozzie has made it abundantly clear the type of team he wants. At this point in time (and again I state AT THIS POINT) is he getting it?

Does bringing back Uribe move the Sox one iota closer to what Ozzie has publicly stated? Will Uribe suddenly learn how to bunt, get on base, hit and run, steal? Hell even just strike out less?

Something isn't right between what is being said to the public and what is taking place. We'll see what happens in the future but bringing back basically the same team that has failed since July 2006 doesn't appear to be a good idea, at least to me.

It's a long off season though and the final verdict is still out there.

Lip

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 02:20 PM
OEO:

I understand your position which is why I'm waiting before making my own final decision on this move but also consider this, AGAIN it seems like there is a disconnect somewhat between the G.M. and the field manager.

During this season repeatedly, Ozzie publicly stated that he can't bunt or hit and run (to use two specific examples) because the team simply can't execute these things.

Then this off season Ozzie makes a highly publicized statement saying that this team WILL get back to the basics for 2008. That he was tired of 200 home runs a year as the only way to score runs, that he was tired of all the strike outs.

Ozzie has made it abundantly clear the type of team he wants. At this point in time (and again I state AT THIS POINT) is he getting it?

Does bringing back Uribe move the Sox one iota closer to what Ozzie has publicly stated? Will Uribe suddenly learn how to bunt, get on base, hit and run, steal? Hell even just strike out less?

Something isn't right between what is being said to the public and what is taking place. We'll see what happens in the future but bringing back basically the same team that has failed since July 2006 doesn't appear to be a good idea, at least to me.

It's a long off season though and the final verdict is still out there.

Lip
To add to your point,the Sox have 2 guys in the bottom of the order who really are not good contact hitters ,totally going against what Ozzie wants.With Uribe,Richar,Thome and Fields the Sox have alot of strikeouts in the lineup.Not exactly the type of lineup to get things going on the base paths

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 02:35 PM
The only way I see this making sense, to me anyways, is if the Sox are looking to bring in a young shortstop like Wood or Alexei Ramirez. If you have a young SS and Richar at 2b, you would need Juan to be a part of a rotation or to start in case one of them falls flat on their face.

If this is the direction, it gives KW a little leverage on the market because he doesn't look so desperate for a SS. If they don't bring in anybody else, I'm at a loss because we would be in the same exact position next offseason, although there may be a couple more options next year.

Tragg
11-07-2007, 02:40 PM
You guys are unbelievable. I remember when the majority wanted Cintron as our starting shortstop. Now everyone hates the guy because he had one year which was injury plagued, and had a ton of family issues. Cintron is not a bad bench player.
So? your "majority" was wrong.

He IS a bad bench player especially for 1.9 MILLION. He can't move a foot for the ball and he makes a lot of errors.

I'm just disappointed I didn't get a lecture on the value of Erstad hacking his way to a .310 obp.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Linky (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=72589)


Surprised? No

We're stuck with him for another year, what can you do? :dunno:

The Sox aren't "stuck" with anything.

The GM meetings aren't even over yet some believe the 2008 Opening Day roster is set.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 02:51 PM
The Sox aren't "stuck" with anything.

The GM meetings aren't even over yet some believe the 2008 Opening Day roster is set.
Obviously anything can happen, but a little shaving with Occam's Razor would seem to apply here. The Sox have a SS who they have shown a fondness for over the years. They resign him and his .260 OBP for another year at 4.5 million. Which of these is more likely:

A) The resigned starting SS from last year is the starting SS for the coming year
or
B) The Sox, a team that is already nearing the likely high end of its salary structure, go out and sign another SS, making them spend even more money at a position where they seem relatively happy
or
C) Despite having holes at CF, LF, SP, RP the Sox trade for another SS, trying to convince another team to take on the SS with the lowest OBP and 3rd lowest OPS in the AL last year, along with his 4.5 million salary.

B or C might happen. But it sure seems like the only people who have said anything about even thinking about trading Uribe are people on this board. So until something happens to make it seem like something more complex is likely to happen, I think it seems a relatively reasonable guess that Juan Uribe is the SS for the Sox next year.

oeo
11-07-2007, 02:56 PM
So? your "majority" was wrong.

It's not 'my' majority. There were only a few that didn't think he was capable of it.

He IS a bad bench player especially for 1.9 MILLION. He can't move a foot for the ball and he makes a lot of errors.

No, he's not. You're basing this off of one bad year. He's not a good 3B, but he's a good backup at SS and 2B.

With this type of thinking of going against track records, we should scrap the whole team.

I'm just disappointed I didn't get a lecture on the value of Erstad hacking his way to a .310 obp.

Where did this come from? :?:

SoxRox
11-07-2007, 03:12 PM
The only way I see this making sense, to me anyways, is if the Sox are looking to bring in a young shortstop like Wood or Alexei Ramirez. If you have a young SS and Richar at 2b, you would need Juan to be a part of a rotation or to start in case one of them falls flat on their face.

If this is the direction, it gives KW a little leverage on the market because he doesn't look so desperate for a SS. If they don't bring in anybody else, I'm at a loss because we would be in the same exact position next offseason, although there may be a couple more options next year.


I agree with your post.

I'm not a fan of Uribe but I think it strengthens Kenny's negotiating position in a potential trade to have one veteran shortstop in-hand verses having none at all.

In a bartering system, if the other party KNOWS you need something very badly they will ask more in trade for it.

-SoxRox

Navarro's Talent
11-07-2007, 03:12 PM
I am not happy about this if the plan is to keep him around. I've never been a huge fan of Uribe's but I always tolerated his strikeouts because his defense was fantastic. Then, he started to get lazy. His defense got worse and so did his offense, as hard as that is to believe. I would love to see him turn it all around obviously, but I just don't see that happening.

I hope he goes as part of an upcoming deal. If not, he better bring his "A" game next season. I will say this: if Uribe does have a good year in '08, that $4.5 million price tag won't look all that bad.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 03:14 PM
He was 2nd in the A.L in fielding % ? How? and I'm shocked.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 03:18 PM
He was 2nd in the A.L in fielding % ? How? and I'm shocked.
Because fielding percentage doesn't mean jack. Otherwise Royce Clayton would be not just the best SS that Paul Konerko ever played with, but possibly the best ever.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 03:20 PM
He was 2nd in the A.L in fielding % ? How? and I'm shocked.

Why? His defense was less than his past seasons but is still better than nearly every SS in the AL. He also has the highest range factor. From a defensive standpoint, getting rid of Uribe hurts the team.

Uribe is due $4.5 million next year. That puts him in the middle of the road, salary wise. I don't think that is unreasonable considering his defense and what else is really available.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 03:22 PM
Why? His defense was less than his past seasons but is still better than nearly every SS in the AL. He also has the highest range factor. From a defensive standpoint, getting rid of Uribe hurts the team.

Uribe is due $4.5 million next year. That puts him in the middle of the road, salary wise. I don't think that is unreasonable considering his defense and what else is really available.


BUT HE SUKSZZZ. HEZ FAT N LAZY AND CAPS PEOPLEZ IN HIS YARD YO.

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 03:44 PM
BUT HE SUKSZZZ. HEZ FAT N LAZY AND CAPS PEOPLEZ IN HIS YARD YO.

Don't you dare take my "idiot talk" shtick.:D:

gobears1987
11-07-2007, 03:46 PM
Kenny! You got some splainin to do

(insert picture of Ricky Ricardo)

Okay: http://www.greatexpectations07.com/files/image/cu1satullo22a.JPG

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 03:47 PM
Don't you dare take my "idiot talk" shtick.:D:

I thought that was INR's.

Oh well, looks like we have a new teal.

gobears1987
11-07-2007, 03:50 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?
20 HRs is useless when he doesn't walk, bats at the Mendoza Line, and is a lazy piece of crap who has **** defense in a position where it is OK to sacrifice a bat for a glove.

soxinem1
11-07-2007, 03:51 PM
http://www.bravesbeat.com/bravesjournal/bristol/archives/harrelson.jpg

'And the result after less than a full day at the GM meetings.... Not Good.....'

Procol Harum
11-07-2007, 04:01 PM
Here's hopin' this is but the initial stroke of a bold, masterful strategy...but somehow I'm thinkin' this is more of the type of stuff that Kenny pulled off to bring 2002 through 2004 to you and me :rolleyes:. Not encouraging.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 04:02 PM
I thought that was INR's.

Oh well, looks like we have a new teal.

HATE THE MEDIA

20 HRs is useless when he doesn't walk, bats at the Mendoza Line, and is a lazy piece of crap who has **** defense in a position where it is OK to sacrifice a bat for a glove.

Love him or hate him, Uribe is still one of the top 3 defensive shortstops in the AL.

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 04:07 PM
20 HRs is useless when he doesn't walk, bats at the Mendoza Line, and is a lazy piece of crap who has **** defense in a position where it is OK to sacrifice a bat for a glove.

Not to mention, half of his hr's, rbi's, and 2b's were in the last month and a half. Which would only be useful if we were in contention. Even Hawk was calling it one of the biggest salary drives he has seen.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 04:30 PM
HATE THE MEDIA



Love him or hate him, Uribe is still one of the top 3 defensive shortstops in the AL.
And there is probably 3 shortstops in the division alone that the Sox would rather have.Who can get to the pop ups ,who throw to the right base on relays.And how many errors did Konerko save him becuse he made lazy throws?

russ99
11-07-2007, 04:31 PM
By no means is SS "filled" for 2008.

This is a move by Kenny to have an option at the position and thus not handcuff him when trying to make deals. Sounds to me like he tried to get Vizquel, and he probably tried other things too. The problem with this whole thing was that the Sox had to do something before today's deadline.

Deadline is over, and we still have a major league shortstop. That doesn't mean Kenny won't try to upgrade the position.

I'd be shocked if Uribe is our starting SS in 2008...

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 04:32 PM
Not to mention, half of his hr's, rbi's, and 2b's were in the last month and a half. Which would only be useful if we were in contention. Even Hawk was calling it one of the biggest salary drives he has seen.
It probably broke Hawks heart to say that.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 04:33 PM
By no means is SS "filled" for 2008.

This is a move by Kenny to have an option at the position and thus not handcuff him to make deals. Sounds to me like he tried to get Vizquel, and he probably tried other things too. The problem with this whole thing was that the Sox had to do something before today's deadline.

Deadline is over, and we still have a major league shortstop. That doesn't mean Kenny will stick with Uribe, or not go after an upgrade.

I'd be shocked if Uribe is our starting SS in 2008...
The more i have read and been listening to whats going on ,I agree with you and Lip.good chance this may be a sign and deal type scenerio.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 04:40 PM
HATE THE MEDIA



Love him or hate him, Uribe is still one of the top 3 defensive shortstops in the AL.

I disagree. He's lost quite a bit defensively in the last two year.s Here is a list of guys I believe are currently better, in order, just in the AL.

Orlando Cabrera
Yuniesky Betancourt
Tony Pena Jr.
Jason Bartlett

And that doesn't even include Derrick Jeter, whom many believe to be the best defensive shortstop in the universe (though I have him a tad lower than Uribe at this point, both of them regressing quickly).

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 04:49 PM
I disagree. He's lost quite a bit defensively in the last two year.s Here is a list of guys I believe are currently better, in order, just in the AL.

Orlando Cabrera
Yuniesky Betancourt
Tony Pena Jr.
Jason Bartlett

And that doesn't even include Derrick Jeter, whom many believe to be the best defensive shortstop in the universe (though I have him a tad lower than Uribe at this point, both of them regressing quickly).

I'd add John McDonald. Uribe has the ability to be better than all these guys. He just hasn't done it the last two years. I have no reason to believe he'll turn it around.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 04:50 PM
I disagree. He's lost quite a bit defensively in the last two year.s Here is a list of guys I believe are currently better, in order, just in the AL.

Orlando Cabrera
Yuniesky Betancourt
Tony Pena Jr.
Jason Bartlett

And that doesn't even include Derrick Jeter, whom many believe to be the best defensive shortstop in the universe (though I have him a tad lower than Uribe at this point, both of them regressing quickly).

Cabrera is owed $9 million in 2008. Jeter is owed $20 million. Does Uribe's $4.5 million really look that bad?

Bartlett, Pena and Betancourt are all young guys earning the minimum. They are not available. They have good gloves but not a lot of power.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 04:53 PM
By no means is SS "filled" for 2008.

This is a move by Kenny to have an option at the position and thus not handcuff him when trying to make deals. Sounds to me like he tried to get Vizquel, and he probably tried other things too. The problem with this whole thing was that the Sox had to do something before today's deadline.

Deadline is over, and we still have a major league shortstop. That doesn't mean Kenny won't try to upgrade the position.

I'd be shocked if Uribe is our starting SS in 2008...
What reason do you have, other than your own hopes that there will be someone better coming in, to believe that even though the Sox have started Juan Uribe at SS for the last 3 years, and even though there are currently no other SS on the roster, and even though there is no reason to believe they have any plans to deal for another shortstop, that they have signed him simply as a part of some elaborate scheme, instead of simply saying "well, they tried to upgrade, failed, and went back to Plan B, keeping the guy we've had the last few years"?

Seriously, do we expect that the Sox will gamble with a 4.5 million deal that "hey, maybe we can upgrade and trade him away, and if we get stuck with him, oh well."

Sure, something might happen, but at this point we might as well be posting about how we declined Erstad so that we can resign him more cheaply as part of our plans to trade for Miguel Cabrera.

pdimas
11-07-2007, 04:55 PM
Cabrera is owed $9 million in 2008. Jeter is owed $20 million. Does Uribe's $4.5 million really look that bad?

Bartlett, Pena and Betancourt are all young guys earning the minimum. They are not available. They have good gloves but not a lot of power.


I agree for the price hes not a bad option. Its maddening the amount of talent this guy has. He could be great if he weren't so lazy. That is what makes him so frustrating to watch at times. You know he could do better. Wasn't his fielding percentage second in the league last year for short stops? I was pretty shocked when I heard something along those lines last year. I just don't see that many better options out there for us at the price.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 04:55 PM
What reason do you have, other than your own hopes that there will be someone better coming in, to believe that even though the Sox have started Juan Uribe at SS for the last 3 years, and even though there are currently no other SS on the roster, and even though there is no reason to believe they have any plans to deal for another shortstop, that they have signed him simply as a part of some elaborate scheme, instead of simply saying "well, they tried to upgrade, failed, and went back to Plan B, keeping the guy we've had the last few years"?

Seriously, do we expect that the Sox will gamble with a 4.5 million deal that "hey, maybe we can upgrade and trade him away, and if we get stuck with him, oh well."

Sure, something might happen, but at this point we might as well be posting about how we declined Erstad so that we can resign him more cheaply as part of our plans to trade for Miguel Cabrera.

Bottom line, the Sox had to make a decision today. As of now, there is a major league shortstop on the roster. Had they not worked out a deal, it would be yet another hole to fill.

Out of all the problems with the team, shortstop shouldn't be that great of a concern.

MCHSoxFan
11-07-2007, 04:56 PM
No real shocker here. By not picking up the option, Sox are rolling the dice that they can find a replacement by free agency/trade. By picking it up, they retain his rights and they can still work on a trade. If they can't get a trade done, worse case scenario is Uribe is back next year. I would rather have him than Gonzales or some other goon.

I agree. I really am not shocked by this. In another Jaun Uribe thread, I said he will be back. Would anybody prefer Juan over Eckstein?

voodoochile
11-07-2007, 04:56 PM
I'd add John McDonald. Uribe has the ability to be better than all these guys. He just hasn't done it the last two years. I have no reason to believe he'll turn it around.

Actually, the fact that this is a contract year might be a good thing for the Sox. If Juan doesn't perform this year, what kind of offer is he going to get next year from anyone and how long until he is just another footnote and out of baseball altogether?

Frontman
11-07-2007, 04:57 PM
Well, there might of been nothing else that KW could of done. Ten days after the WS would of been.....huh. Today, imagine that!

We have to think logically in what KW has to work with. If Jerry gave KW a half billion dollar budget and then he settled for Juan? I'd be pissed. But I look at this as a chance that KW is going to spend smarter money elsewhere to improve the Sox.

It's also not like KW gave Uribe a ringing endorsement when talking about the re-signing.

jabrch
11-07-2007, 04:58 PM
Actually, the fact that this is a contract year might be a good thing for the Sox. If Juan doesn't perform this year, what kind of offer is he going to get next year from anyone and how long until he is just another footnote and out of baseball altogether?


The same could have been said last season also.

I don't mind this move. 4.5mm isn't much - and Uribe has the skills to be well worth the price. But at the same time, I'm not overly excited either way.

I'm willing to wait this out a bit to see what else Kenny plans to do.

MCHSoxFan
11-07-2007, 05:00 PM
Bottom line, the Sox had to make a decision today. As of now, there is a major league shortstop on the roster. Had they not worked out a deal, it would be yet another hole to fill.

Out of all the problems with the team, shortstop shouldn't be that great of a concern.

I also agree with you. I would like a great player in CF and a good lead-off hitter. I think that if the team is good and Juan plays no better than his worse, we still can succeed. Just my opinion. :D:

Paulwny
11-07-2007, 05:01 PM
What reason do you have, other than your own hopes that there will be someone better coming in, to believe that even though the Sox have started Juan Uribe at SS for the last 3 years, and even though there are currently no other SS on the roster, and even though there is no reason to believe they have any plans to deal for another shortstop, that they have signed him simply as a part of some elaborate scheme, instead of simply saying "well, they tried to upgrade, failed, and went back to Plan B, keeping the guy we've had the last few years"?

Seriously, do we expect that the Sox will gamble with a 4.5 million deal that "hey, maybe we can upgrade and trade him away, and if we get stuck with him, oh well."

Sure, something might happen, but at this point we might as well be posting about how we declined Erstad so that we can resign him more cheaply as part of our plans to trade for Miguel Cabrera.


Agree, KW's a GM not an espioage agent looking for an elaborate scheme.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Actually, the fact that this is a contract year might be a good thing for the Sox. If Juan doesn't perform this year, what kind of offer is he going to get next year from anyone and how long until he is just another footnote and out of baseball altogether?
Good points,but there sure is alot of "Ifs" going into this year and the last few years.I think we all can agree on as fans ,we just want consistancy from the players and managment.

SBSoxFan
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
It sounds like they brought him back for a little less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304

AM 1000 said $4.5m.

I'm confused. How did they reach an agreement on a new contract without declining his option? I thought they either had to exercise or decline the option. Exercise it, and Uribe is back for 1 year at $5M; decline it and he's a free agent. Where did this 1-year contract at $4.5M come from?

munchman33
11-07-2007, 05:07 PM
Cabrera is owed $9 million in 2008. Jeter is owed $20 million. Does Uribe's $4.5 million really look that bad?


When you consider his lack of offense, yes. He's half a player if he's a great defender. But he's not even a great defender.

voodoochile
11-07-2007, 05:07 PM
I'm confused. How did they reach an agreement on a new contract without declining his option? I thought they either had to exercise or decline the option. Exercise it, and Uribe is back for 1 year at $5M; decline it and he's a free agent. Where did this 1-year contract at $4.5M come from?

They may have given him a choice, sign for less or take your chance on the FA market.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Well, looks like we're looking at Uribe being our shortstop. Here's Kenny on the move:

"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/11/ecksteins-healt.html

MushMouth
11-07-2007, 05:08 PM
We'll be fine with Uribe batting 8th, and playing short, as long as we upgrade Center Field, bullpen and plug in Cabrera or healthy Crede at 3rd.

SBSoxFan
11-07-2007, 05:10 PM
Well, looks like we're looking at Uribe being our shortstop. Here's Kenny on the move:

"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

Isn't that first sentence exactly what KW said about Pods prior to last year?

russ99
11-07-2007, 05:11 PM
Well, looks like we're looking at Uribe being our shortstop. Here's Kenny on the move:

"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/11/ecksteins-healt.html

Kinda figured. Still, if opportunities present themselves, I seriously doubt Kenny would say "No, we already have Uribe"...

munchman33
11-07-2007, 05:11 PM
Isn't that first sentence exactly what KW said about Pods prior to last year?

Yep. :(:

SBSoxFan
11-07-2007, 05:11 PM
They may have given him a choice, sign for less or take your chance on the FA market.

I didn't realize that was possible. I thought if there was a contract option, it either had to be exercised or declined, and both sides suffered whatever fallout because of that.

You learn something knew every day. :D:

Paulwny
11-07-2007, 05:12 PM
I'm confused. How did they reach an agreement on a new contract without declining his option? I thought they either had to exercise or decline the option. Exercise it, and Uribe is back for 1 year at $5M; decline it and he's a free agent. Where did this 1-year contract at $4.5M come from?

He decided not to accept the $500K bonus for losing weight.

gobears1987
11-07-2007, 05:12 PM
Love him or hate him, Uribe is still one of the top 3 defensive shortstops in the AL.In 2005 yes, but not in 2006 or 2007. I would rank him 4th in the AL Central so I don't know how you can even put him up in the top 3 of the entire AL.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 05:13 PM
Kinda figured. Still, if opportunities present themselves, I seriously doubt Kenny would say "No, we already have Uribe"...

I believe he's saying he doesn't see anything else out there that he can do, whether it's financially or through talent. Which sucks. Because with Uribe still on the team, we're failing to improve our most improvable area.

russ99
11-07-2007, 05:16 PM
"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

Doesn't sound to me like Kenny's going to stop looking just because Uribe's back...

Bucky F. Dent
11-07-2007, 05:17 PM
Not good. Not good at all.

I can't imagine we are going to be able to move this guy.
Unless we plan on using him as a 4.5M bench player (which is a bad idea in its own right), we're stuck w/ Juan Uribe at short.

You can't go into the post season talking about Ozzie Ball and team speed, and bunting and all the rest, and then re-sign this guy. I mean how much speed do your really expect to get out of CF & LF, which appear to be your only open spots at this point.

There HAS TO BE something else in the works. Has to be.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 05:23 PM
Doesn't sound to me like Kenny's going to stop looking just because Uribe's back...
Of course he won't stop looking, but SS moves down to 4th or 5th on the priority list. How do you justify sinking more money or more trade resources into a position where you already have a guy you felt comfortable giving a 4.5 million deal to? A guy you have had as your starting SS for the last 3 years? A guy who will be damn near untradeable?

voodoochile
11-07-2007, 05:23 PM
Not good. Not good at all.

I can't imagine we are going to be able to move this guy.
Unless we plan on using him as a 4.5M bench player (which is a bad idea in its own right), we're stuck w/ Juan Uribe at short.

You can't go into the post season talking about Ozzie Ball and team speed, and bunting and all the rest, and then re-sign this guy. I mean how much speed do your really expect to get out of CF & LF, which appear to be your only open spots at this point.

There HAS TO BE something else in the works. Has to be.

Can you name the speedy bunting leadoff SS that were available who could have made this signing obsolete if the Sox had signed them instead?

Sometimes the best option isn't the ideal option...

spawn
11-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Can you name the speedy bunting leadoff SS that were available who could have made this signing obsolete if the Sox had signed them instead?

C'mon voodoo...Haven't you heard? Teams are lining up to trade us their star shortstops! And the best part is, we wouldn't have to give them anything in return, seeing as we have nothing of value to give them!!! Or better yet...we should've tried harder to sign Omar Vizquel, or even David Eckstein!!! How do you not see the myriad of SS options KW had? You must have your blinders on!!!

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Actually, the fact that this is a contract year might be a good thing for the Sox. If Juan doesn't perform this year, what kind of offer is he going to get next year from anyone and how long until he is just another footnote and out of baseball altogether?

Voodoo,

As others have said, I viewed last year as a contract year, as well. I don't see this year being much different. I feel like the last two years the Sox have asked him to get in shape, change his approach at the plate, show he can run the bases, and work harder on defense. He hasn't done any of that, so I don't see why this year will be different.

Now, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, if they plan on acquiring and bringing along a young ss, this move makes sense. You will need his experience as it would be hard to have a young ss, Richar, and possible Fields in the infield.

So far, that hasn't happened, so I'm disappointed. I'm also willing to wait out the rest of the winter and see what happens.

kobo
11-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Well, looks like we're looking at Uribe being our shortstop. Here's Kenny on the move:

"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/11/ecksteins-healt.html
Guess that pretty much seals the deal there.

I look forward to another season of Uribe swinging from his heels at pitches over his head, striking out over 100 times, not being able to lay down a bunt, lazily moving to either side attempting to field a grounder, and throwing the ball over Konerko's head at first. Good stuff!

Domeshot17
11-07-2007, 05:31 PM
Not a good start Kenny

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 05:56 PM
One of the best fielding ss in MLB who hits 20 HR, for $4.5 MM? Only a White Sox fan could think nobody would want that. How much is Julio Lugo paid?

for every 2 good stats he has, he has 5 bad ones.

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 06:01 PM
Yeah, I don't quite get the wailing and gnashing of teeth either.

Uribe will probably have a better year this coming season simply because he won't have the distractions that plagued him to start last year. Should make it easier to concentrate on getting in shape and playing baseball knowing he won't have to defend himself against murder charges.

If he plays up to the standards he has prior to last year, he will be a bargain. I actually expect that to happen, but if the Sox sign another SS Uribe still offers a backup plan in case Richar fails dramatically at 2B.

He'll be batting 8th anyway, it's not like the Sox will need the 8th slot to be an AS bat and if they do, they are way past screwed...

famous last words told to brian anderson....

Lip Man 1
11-07-2007, 06:05 PM
But they will need (according to Ozzie himself) the top two and bottom two spots in the order to get on base, advance runners, bunt, hit and run and steal bases.

Lip

munchman33
11-07-2007, 06:10 PM
But they will need (according to Ozzie himself) the top two and bottom two spots in the order to get on base, advance runners, bunt, hit and run and steal bases.

Lip

Maybe Ozzie intends to bat Uribe 7th...

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 06:11 PM
To add to your point,the Sox have 2 guys in the bottom of the order who really are not good contact hitters ,totally going against what Ozzie wants.With Uribe,Richar,Thome and Fields the Sox have alot of strikeouts in the lineup.Not exactly the type of lineup to get things going on the base paths

if they were good contact hitters, theyd be batting 1st or 2nd....

munchman33
11-07-2007, 06:11 PM
Doesn't sound to me like Kenny's going to stop looking just because Uribe's back...

Read between the lines. That's exactly what he's saying. Unless a fall into your lap situation for an upgrade occurs, there's no reason for him to make a move. At least in his mind.

MetroPD
11-07-2007, 06:13 PM
Wow what an incredible waste of money. I'd rather take our chances with a entry paid rookie than waste $4.5 on this buffoon.

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 06:25 PM
We'll be fine with Uribe batting 8th, and playing short, as long as we upgrade Center Field, bullpen and plug in Cabrera or healthy Crede at 3rd.

i honestly hope none of you guys are picturing miguel cabrera in a white sox uniform EVER, ESPECIALLY anytime soon??

upperdeckusc
11-07-2007, 06:28 PM
Can you name the speedy bunting leadoff SS that were available who could have made this signing obsolete if the Sox had signed them instead?

Sometimes the best option isn't the ideal option...

erick aybar of the angels. he plays SS, and is blocked by cabrera and wood. theres no reason why we couldnt have traded for him. fast, plays good D, and plays SS. oh yea, league minimum price too. he's not the # 1 prospect in their organization, so we wouldnt have to give up the farm to get him.
uribe sucks and he better not start for us opening day...

KyWhiSoxFan
11-07-2007, 06:57 PM
Unfortunately, the Sox had to spend $4.5million to ensure they have a SS for 2008. That is pretty steep insurance.

The article in the Trib mentions that the Sox had to sign Uribe because they did not have any viable options internally, pointing to the lack of development of Valido. Well, KW has known for 2 years that Valido was not an option, so why weren't the Sox in the market last year or the year before looking for someone?

PalehosePlanet
11-07-2007, 07:12 PM
Why? His defense was less than his past seasons but is still better than nearly every SS in the AL. He also has the highest range factor. From a defensive standpoint, getting rid of Uribe hurts the team.

Uribe is due $4.5 million next year. That puts him in the middle of the road, salary wise. I don't think that is unreasonable considering his defense and what else is really available.

THANK YOU! Usually the better the fielding percentage the lower the range factor. Juan is excellent at both and has the best SS arm in baseball (Furcal notwithstanding.) His D is top notch and if his offense was better he would have won a gold-glove (no glove man ever wins unless he hits.)

I agree that his offense is for the most part horrid --- the only player I know who is susceptible to both the high fastball and the breaking pitches in the dirt consitently --- but to not separate his offense from his defense when describing his play is ridicilous.

Some of you guys ripping on his defense need to get the baseball package on dish and start watching some of the other SS's defense around baseball. Maybe then you'd appreciate his defense.

Jollyroger2
11-07-2007, 08:03 PM
THANK YOU! Usually the better the fielding percentage the lower the range factor. Juan is excellent at both and has the best SS arm in baseball (Furcal notwithstanding.) His D is top notch and if his offense was better he would have won a gold-glove (no glove man ever wins unless he hits.)

I agree that his offense is for the most part horrid --- the only player I know who is susceptible to both the high fastball and the breaking pitches in the dirt consitently --- but to not separate his offense from his defense when describing his play is ridicilous.

Some of you guys ripping on his defense need to get the baseball package on dish and start watching some of the other SS's defense around baseball. Maybe then you'd appreciate his defense.

I have mlb extra innings, and while I don't spend hours examining everyone else's shortstops, you really don't need it to see how overrated Uribe's defense is...especially this past season. Not only that, but a dead hole in the lineup too.

Great start KW.

Where's my Guinness. :gulp: :gulp:

Brian26
11-07-2007, 08:11 PM
Juan Uribe is not the reason the Sox lost 90 games last year. His defense and occassional pop are worth $4.5 based on the market.

EMachine10
11-07-2007, 08:13 PM
This was the right move. Think about it....who else is going to play SS for us from within? Andy Gonzalez? By signing Juan, we have increased flexibility to make a trade involving him, and possibly receiving a SS in return. Besides, everybody screams for an upgrade at this position, but who are we going to replace him with? Elite shortstops do not grow on trees, and teams with great shortstops are going to have strong asking prices for theirs. Do you think we could get Reyes or Ramirez for Uribe and Contreras or something like that? The fact is, there are not a whole lot of intriuging options out there that are realistic. Juan does have some nice defensive skills, and if we can upgrade the offense at some other positions, and if Juan has a somewhat decent year, it really won't be that bad.

HaroMaster87
11-07-2007, 08:18 PM
I'm indifferent on this...I used to love to watch him throw the leather but last year was painful at times. He just seemed like he was asleep sometimes. When he is focused in the field he makes some highlight reel plays.

At the very least we retained an asset that can either stay or be part of a trade - thats how he should be looked at - as an asset.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 08:20 PM
Some of you guys ripping on his defense need to get the baseball package on dish and start watching some of the other SS's defense around baseball. Maybe then you'd appreciate his defense.

With some people, a guy is a hunk of junk unless he has a 1.000 FP, 0 E and an infinite RF.

ilsox7
11-07-2007, 08:23 PM
With some people, a guy is a hunk of junk unless he has a 1.000 FP, 0 E and an infinite RF.

My RF extends from the Gold Coast to Evanston. It may not be infinite, but it's pretty damn solid.

Tragg
11-07-2007, 08:50 PM
Deadline is over, and we still have a major league shortstop. That doesn't mean Kenny won't try to upgrade the position.

I'd be shocked if Uribe is our starting SS in 2008...

That may be...but we'll basically have to give him away. Better players brought A ball players in return at the dealine (and I know, you only get < 1/2 a season out of them at the deadline; but they're more desparate then, too). I think we tried to shop Uribe - no soap. I guess getting nothing would be just like not signing him.

This signing's okay with me. Better than Eckstein.
The only thing is is I'd still like to see them get a young SS.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 08:50 PM
Some of you guys ripping on his defense need to get the baseball package on dish and start watching some of the other SS's defense around baseball. Maybe then you'd appreciate his defense.

I do. And I find most of what you say about Juan's defense ludacris. And offensive to all the good defensive shortstops in baseball. Juan isn't there anymore.

Daver
11-07-2007, 09:02 PM
I do. And I find most of what you say about Juan's defense ludacris. And offensive to all the good defensive shortstops in baseball. Juan isn't there anymore.

Your spelling of ludicrous is ludicrous.

And Juan beats trotting Angel Gonzalez out there 150 times next season.

munchman33
11-07-2007, 09:06 PM
Your spelling of ludicrous is ludicrous.

And Juan beats trotting Angel Gonzalez out there 150 times next season.


:redface:

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 09:36 PM
Your spelling of ludicrous is ludicrous.

And Juan beats trotting Angel Gonzalez out there 150 times next season.

Is that really what we've come to? Two years removed from a World Series in one of the top baseball markets in the country and we're looking at lesser of two evils comparisons?

Wow.

Daver
11-07-2007, 09:51 PM
Is that really what we've come to? Two years removed from a World Series in one of the top baseball markets in the country and we're looking at lesser of two evils comparisons?

Wow.

How many shortstops do you see not named Alex Rodriguez on the FA list?

The Sox philosophy of drafting a ton of pitching and little in position has bitten them in the ass again.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 09:55 PM
How many shortstops do you see not named Alex Rodriguez on the FA list?

The Sox philosophy of drafting a ton of pitching and little in position has bitten them in the ass again.
It wouldn't feel quite so bad if they also didn't have only about 4 dependable arms surrounded by a boatload of question marks. If that theory had led us to a solid young rotation and a lockdown bullpen it might be justifiable, but instead we have Buehrle, Javy, Garland, Jenks, and a lot of crossing of fingers and knocking on wood.

Hitmen77
11-07-2007, 09:59 PM
This signing shouldn't be a surprise to any of us. The Sox really had no choice at this point in time. As much as I'm disappointed in Uribe, I would feel much worse right now if the Sox had just cut him loose today and we were in a position where we were at the mercy of the Sox being able to work out a trade for a SS or being able to land a free agent SS. Either of those is far from guaranteed to happen and it would be a huge risk on the part of KW.

I'm not happy with Uribe's performance in '07. Seems to me that his offense and defense improved during "garbage time" late in the season. But, I can understand why the Sox felt they were in a position now of having to bring him back.

Now we see what the Sox do this offseason. Juan Uribe is tolerable when he's the only black hole in our lineup. What we can't have is the Sox having 2 or 3 rally killing automatic outs in the lineup.

Daver
11-07-2007, 10:03 PM
It wouldn't feel quite so bad if they also didn't have only about 4 dependable arms surrounded by a boatload of question marks. If that theory had led us to a solid young rotation and a lockdown bullpen it might be justifiable, but instead we have Buehrle, Javy, Garland, Jenks, and a lot of crossing of fingers and knocking on wood.

I'd disagree with that, Danks is good, unpolished, but good, Gio Gonzalez is gonna be an MLB pitcher, as will De Los Santos and Poreda, I wouldn't give up on Broadway yet either. They have also used a lot of that drafted pitching to win a world series in 2005.

A. Cavatica
11-07-2007, 10:25 PM
Well, at least we know the motto of the 2008 White Sox.

"Settle."

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 10:43 PM
Well, at least we know the motto of the 2008 White Sox.

"Settle."

Might as well print the Opening Day scorecards, complete with starting lineup and roster.

:rolleyes:

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 10:49 PM
How many shortstops do you see not named Alex Rodriguez on the FA list?

The Sox philosophy of drafting a ton of pitching and little in position has bitten them in the ass again.

Yeah that's what I'm angered about more than anything. Yeah, there aren't a whole lot of FA options but I wish we at least had SOME young talent anywhere on this team.

whitesoxfan
11-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Not a huge fan of Uribe, but I guess I don't mind this too much. It keeps David Crapperstein away from this team, so at least that's good.

A. Cavatica
11-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Might as well print the Opening Day scorecards, complete with starting lineup and roster.

:rolleyes:

"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 11:12 PM
"We didn't feel as though the free agent market or the trade market presented better options than what we had with him," Williams said. "We'll take it a step at a time from here through the winter meetings, see what the possibilities are, if we can improve, but I'm not sure there are shortstops [available] who can improve the team as a whole."

I believe verbatim everything a GM says to the media during the GM meetings.

voodoochile
11-07-2007, 11:14 PM
erick aybar of the angels. he plays SS, and is blocked by cabrera and wood. theres no reason why we couldnt have traded for him. fast, plays good D, and plays SS. oh yea, league minimum price too. he's not the # 1 prospect in their organization, so we wouldnt have to give up the farm to get him.
uribe sucks and he better not start for us opening day...

Okay, you are not only assuming he's available, but that the Sox have something to trade for him that the Angels want and that is more valuable than any other team would offer. If he's that good and that cheap, he's not going to be traded for a bag of baseballs.

Maybe the Sox could get him, maybe not. If not and they had let Uribe walk, what option do they have then?

Their hands got a bit tied and Uribe for all of his faults was the best guaranteed option the team had. If they can improve on it for a major league minimum player, okay, then uribe can go to the bench and act as backup if Richar fails as a starter.

A bird in the hand and all that...

A. Cavatica
11-07-2007, 11:16 PM
I believe verbatim everything a GM says to the media during the GM meetings.

Well, if you don't think his words indicate he's settling, consider his actions.

itsnotrequired
11-07-2007, 11:24 PM
Well, if you don't think his words indicate he's settling, consider his actions.

Look at it from Uribe's standpoint. How "secure" do you think he feels right now?

A. Cavatica
11-07-2007, 11:30 PM
Look at it from Uribe's standpoint. How "secure" do you think he feels right now?

I think he feels $4.5M more secure than he did this morning.

Tragg
11-07-2007, 11:38 PM
How many shortstops do you see not named Alex Rodriguez on the FA list?

The Sox philosophy of drafting a ton of pitching and little in position has bitten them in the ass again.
Theoretically, that shouldn't matter. If the Sox are skilled and comfortable drafting pitchers, they should draft them, develop them and then trade them for someone else's position prospects. That way, the Sox and the other team would both be better off. Specialization.

BUT, teams (actually GMs) seem to fear the downside of trading a prospect who turns out to be a stud, much more than they seem to enjoy the upside of getting a stud in trade.

ZombieRob
11-07-2007, 11:39 PM
Well regardless ,the Sox at this point are not even close to being as good as ther current 3 teams ahead of them.Getting Uribe back doesn't put them any closer to the 3 teams ahead of them who coincidently have 3 better S.S.Kenny still has his work cut out for him .

soxfanreggie
11-08-2007, 12:25 AM
I think he got more than he got anywhere else, at least anywhere else he would probably want to play. I just hope he can work hard this offseason and improve. Glad we got him for less than the option though. $500k in savings we can use elsewhere.

Lip Man 1
11-08-2007, 12:35 AM
I just got back from a high school football banquet and watched the tape of Chicago Tribune Live!...the one liners were coming fast and furious over this:

"With Uribe you get defense, power and a complete lack of focus..." -- Josh Mora.

"In a sense you know what you get with him... inconsistency..." -- Fred Mitchell

"It shows that there isn't a lot of talent available at that position right now..." -- Fred Mitchell.

YIKES!

Lip

Grzegorz
11-08-2007, 05:49 AM
If the situation calls for a sacrifice or hitting behind the runner and Uribe is at the plate I have no faith that he'll get the job done.

So at this point, and it's early, the Chicago White Sox still have a problem at SS.

I'll agree with Lip to a degree because it is still early but clearly the rhetoric and the personnel moves just do not mesh.

BadBobbyJenks
11-08-2007, 09:47 AM
I just got back from a high school football banquet and watched the tape of Chicago Tribune Live!...the one liners were coming fast and furious over this:

"It shows that there isn't a lot of talent available at that position right now..." -- Fred Mitchell.

YIKES!

Lip


there is nothing out there, thats why we had to pick up the option so at least we have something if we cant upgrade through a trade. I believe furcal is coming.

Im not paying eckstein 10 mil per, Im just not

spiffie
11-08-2007, 11:57 AM
Might as well print the Opening Day scorecards, complete with starting lineup and roster.

:rolleyes:
Yup. God knows signing a player for next year is very rarely a sign that they intend to play him in the position he's been playing in for the last three seasons. Almost always is a prelude to a trade.

Right now it seems reasonably safe to predict 7 of the 10 guys who will be playing in the first inning of the first game of next year. It is almost certain that two of the three holes will be filled by someone who played for us last year. Crede or Fields will be 3B. Fields, Pods, or one of the young OF will be LF. CF is the only position that I expect them to go outside the organization for. If there is a trade this offseason, I don't expect it to impact the starting lineup. It will either be for young pitching or bullpen help if I were to bet on it. So yeah, I'll fill out the opening day lineup mostly in pen. And I'll bet you a nickel I'm not far off either.

1B- Konerko
2B - Richar
SS - Uribe
3B - ?
RF - Dye
CF - ?
LF - ?
C - Pierzynski
DH - Thome
P - Buehrle

Flight #24
11-08-2007, 12:15 PM
I absolutely hate that this offseason and the comments so far smack a lot of last, where despite having same obvious holes, the determination was that "there isn't anything better out there that makes sense".

This team needs upgrades and significant ones in at least 2-3 key spots. If Kenny's taken at face value then Uribe's the likely '08 SS, which is NOT a good thing unless they're going to make much more significant upgrades at other positions than I think are available.

Of course you never know what can happen in trade, and there's the whole "under the radar", so I'll wait to see what happens, but I'm not in favor of the way he's characterized this first move.

oeo
11-08-2007, 12:17 PM
I absolutely hate that this offseason and the comments so far smack a lot of last, where despite having same obvious holes, the determination was that "there isn't anything better out there that makes sense".

This team needs upgrades and significant ones in at least 2-3 key spots. If Kenny's taken at face value then Uribe's the likely '08 SS, which is NOT a good thing unless they're going to make much more significant upgrades at other positions than I think are available.

Of course you never know what can happen in trade, and there's the whole "under the radar", so I'll wait to see what happens, but I'm not in favor of the way he's characterized this first move.

I don't think Kenny's done looking for a SS. In fact, if A-Rod signs with the Angels, I think Brandon Wood will be headed here. Wood would be blocked by A-Rod at third, as well as Cabrera/Aybar at SS. There's no room for him, which will make him expendable.

oeo
11-08-2007, 12:20 PM
Yup. God knows signing a player for next year is very rarely a sign that they intend to play him in the position he's been playing in for the last three seasons. Almost always is a prelude to a trade.

They had to make a decision on him yesterday. I thought they would bring Uribe back all along, that they would give him a pay cut and turn down the option. Unfortunately, the paycut wasn't as much as I thought it would be, but it's still a possibility that Uribe could be riding the bench as a utility man.

spiffie
11-08-2007, 12:36 PM
They had to make a decision on him yesterday. I thought they would bring Uribe back all along, that they would give him a pay cut and turn down the option. Unfortunately, the paycut wasn't as much as I thought it would be, but it's still a possibility that Uribe could be riding the bench as a utility man.
There is also a possibility that the Sox will offer me a spot in the bullpen.

Seriously though, when you resign your starting shortstop for a decent sum of money, and you still have lots of other holes you are trying to fill, why would any reasonable person think that it is not very likely that your starting SS remains your starting SS? If this happened to any other team would we look at them and say "obviously they're going to need a SS" as our first thought?

Hell, at this point, I hope Uribe is the SS next year. Otherwise we'll be trading our few pieces we have available for a position that would give us a slow $4.5 million utility man. That's a terrible idea to me.

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 12:50 PM
There is also a possibility that the Sox will offer me a spot in the bullpen.

Seriously though, when you resign your starting shortstop for a decent sum of money, and you still have lots of other holes you are trying to fill, why would any reasonable person think that it is not very likely that your starting SS remains your starting SS? If this happened to any other team would we look at them and say "obviously they're going to need a SS" as our first thought?

Hell, at this point, I hope Uribe is the SS next year. Otherwise we'll be trading our few pieces we have available for a position that would give us a slow $4.5 million utility man. That's a terrible idea to me.

Don't get me wrong, Uribe is more likely to be the starting SS in 2008 than not but it is pretty clear the Sox aren't jumping up and down about the Uribe signing. My feeling is KW is still looking to upgrade the position.

I agree that any Uribe trades that create other holes is not a good thing. Having him be a bench player at $4.5 million is not a good use of payroll.

oeo
11-08-2007, 01:48 PM
There is also a possibility that the Sox will offer me a spot in the bullpen.

Seriously though, when you resign your starting shortstop for a decent sum of money, and you still have lots of other holes you are trying to fill, why would any reasonable person think that it is not very likely that your starting SS remains your starting SS? If this happened to any other team would we look at them and say "obviously they're going to need a SS" as our first thought?

Hell, at this point, I hope Uribe is the SS next year. Otherwise we'll be trading our few pieces we have available for a position that would give us a slow $4.5 million utility man. That's a terrible idea to me.

It's obvious to me that Kenny wanted/wants to upgrade the position. He wanted to acquire Renteria, Vizquel, Wood, etc. I don't think he will quit looking to upgrade it, but what if he can't? If he didn't re-sign Uribe, we wouldn't have a SS.

I agree that $4.5 million is pretty steep for a utility man, but I feel like that's the chance you take. Either the possibility of not having a viable SS, or overpaying a utility man...I'll take the latter. It's not out of the question that Uribe is moved entirely, either, though.

russ99
11-08-2007, 04:02 PM
It's obvious to me that Kenny wanted/wants to upgrade the position. He wanted to acquire Renteria, Vizquel, Wood, etc. I don't think he will quit looking to upgrade it, but what if he can't? If he didn't re-sign Uribe, we wouldn't have a SS.

I agree that $4.5 million is pretty steep for a utility man, but I feel like that's the chance you take. Either the possibility of not having a viable SS, or overpaying a utility man...I'll take the latter. It's not out of the question that Uribe is moved entirely, either, though.

Agree. While this means that the Sox likely won't get Eckstein or Tejada, I doubt that Uribe will just be handed the job. Kenny's comments lead me to believe that he's not happy with Juan, but they needed to make a decision by the deadline.

My thinking is that Kenny might add an inexpensive SS after all the major FAs have signed, and make Uribe compete for the job. That's really the only thing IMO that will make Juan show up in good shape and ditch his lazy attitude...

Domeshot17
11-08-2007, 04:19 PM
Agree. While this means that the Sox likely won't get Eckstein or Tejada, I doubt that Uribe will just be handed the job. Kenny's comments lead me to believe that he's not happy with Juan, but they needed to make a decision by the deadline.

My thinking is that Kenny might add an inexpensive SS after all the major FAs have signed, and make Uribe compete for the job. That's really the only thing IMO that will make Juan show up in good shape and ditch his lazy attitude...

Well Kenny already said he isn't going after Tejada.

I think truthfully Kenny and Ozzie still way over value Uribe. They think he is this big time power hitting slick fielding SS, and while MAYBE he could be both, his laziness prevents him from being either. I don't think anyone realizes how much Konerko saves Uribe's ass at first.

Flight #24
11-08-2007, 04:48 PM
It's obvious to me that Kenny wanted/wants to upgrade the position. He wanted to acquire Renteria, Vizquel, Wood, etc. I don't think he will quit looking to upgrade it, but what if he can't? If he didn't re-sign Uribe, we wouldn't have a SS.


I'm more bothered by his comments that there isn't a better SS out there all things considered ($$$, contract length, etc.). I find that sort of thinking troubling. Now he could be blowing smoke and thinking of all kinds of alternatives, but based on what he's said, he thinks Uribe could be their best bet which means they're not looking good at that position for 2008.

BadBobbyJenks
11-08-2007, 04:56 PM
I have a question for everyone throwing a fit about the uribe signing. What would you be saying if we signed eckstein for 4 years at 40 million? Would this be just the upgrade we needed?




I would be killing the move




Its november 8th, calm down. Let KW execute what ever plan he has for the offseason before you criticize.

russ99
11-08-2007, 05:08 PM
I have a question for everyone throwing a fit about the uribe signing. What would you be saying if we signed eckstein for 4 years at 40 million? Would this be just the upgrade we needed?
I would be killing the move

Its november 8th, calm down. Let KW execute what ever plan he has for the offseason before you criticize.

I'd be very happy at with an Eckstein signing as he fills our biggest need, a lead-off hitter who can get on base. Who really is out there at LF/CF that leads off and Kenny can get? Damon? I don't want to see Owens leading off in 2008.

I'd even go so far as we still should consider Eckstein for 2B, despite Richar's emergence at the position. Maybe he'd sign for a little less, since the Sox aren't desperate for a SS anymore. And no Luis Castillo, please. He's not a true lead-off hitter, and really is only an option for the Sox cause Ozzie likes him. Which is a poor excuse to acquire a player.

Frater Perdurabo
11-08-2007, 05:17 PM
Would everyone please back off the ledge?

Withhold judgment until comprehension is complete, or at least until Spring Training starts.

:rolleyes:

wdelaney72
11-08-2007, 05:30 PM
He wanted to acquire Renteria

Do we know this?

Detroit gave up 2 prospects for Renteria. Outside of his bad year in Boston, Renteria has consistently been a very good player... offensively and defensively. Again 2 prospects. Prospects = suspects. While these were 2 highly touted prospects, they've still proved nothing in the big leagues.

This is what I'm angry about... a good shortstop was available and Kenny not only missed the bus, but he let him go to a divisional rival.

I agree that we need to remain calm and that Kenny's not done building the 2008 team, but when opening day comes if Uribe is our starting SS, I'll be furious because a better option was to be had!

MisterB
11-08-2007, 05:42 PM
Do we know this?

Do you have any proof he didn't?

itsnotrequired
11-08-2007, 06:28 PM
Do you have any proof he didn't?

and the circle of logic spins ever wider...

DumpJerry
11-08-2007, 06:48 PM
This is what I'm angry about... a good shortstop was available and Kenny not only missed the bus, but he let him go to a divisional rival.
Let's break this down a bit:
1. How do you know the Braves even wanted to talk with the White Sox? You are assuming the White Sox were able to talk with the Braves about Renteria.
2. How could Kenny have prevented the trade to the Tigers? He is not Bowie Kuhn.
3. Everything you said about Kenny not getting the deal done can be applied to the other 27 GMs in MLB since they, too, did not complete a trade for Renteria.

Remember, it takes two to make a deal happen. Kenny cannot call up a GM and demand that they hand over certain players and he will give up players X,Y and Z in return. A deal has to be worked out where both sides feel they will benefit. The Braves might have approached the Tigers because they had their eye on these prospects and the Tigers jumped at the opportunity.

Just because a team trades someone does not mean that the 28 other teams not involved in the deal had a chance at him.

A. Cavatica
11-08-2007, 10:23 PM
I predict that Uribe will have to win the job in spring training. There's Cintron, of course, and the Sox will bring in a veteran -- say, Kelly Dransfeldt -- to compete with Uribe.

Frater Perdurabo
11-08-2007, 10:29 PM
:tomatoaward: :tomatoaward:

Etownsox13
11-09-2007, 02:12 AM
*sigh* :puking:

wdelaney72
11-09-2007, 09:02 AM
Let's break this down a bit:
1. How do you know the Braves even wanted to talk with the White Sox? You are assuming the White Sox were able to talk with the Braves about Renteria.
2. How could Kenny have prevented the trade to the Tigers? He is not Bowie Kuhn.
3. Everything you said about Kenny not getting the deal done can be applied to the other 27 GMs in MLB since they, too, did not complete a trade for Renteria.

Remember, it takes two to make a deal happen. Kenny cannot call up a GM and demand that they hand over certain players and he will give up players X,Y and Z in return. A deal has to be worked out where both sides feel they will benefit. The Braves might have approached the Tigers because they had their eye on these prospects and the Tigers jumped at the opportunity.

Just because a team trades someone does not mean that the 28 other teams not involved in the deal had a chance at him.

Your points are valid, but not all of the other 28 teams need a shortstop, or have the money to take Renteria's contract.

Yes it takes two teams to make a deal and we certainly don't know the perspecitve of the Braves GM and whether or not they were targeting these 2 prospects of the Tigers. On the surface, it looked like that was not the case as they Braves simply had a guy in their system they wanted to move in that position and Renteria had to go. We'll never know.

What I do know is after two seasons of less than acceptable production from Uribe, we have a glaring need to upgrade one of the most important positions on the field. An upgrade was available and we didn't get him. I'm hoping Kenny brought Uribe back as an insurance policy and he goes out and still upgrades SS via trade for Furcal, or Anaheim's Cabrera.

voodoochile
11-09-2007, 09:26 AM
Your points are valid, but not all of the other 28 teams need a shortstop, or have the money to take Renteria's contract.

Yes it takes two teams to make a deal and we certainly don't know the perspecitve of the Braves GM and whether or not they were targeting these 2 prospects of the Tigers. On the surface, it looked like that was not the case as they Braves simply had a guy in their system they wanted to move in that position and Renteria had to go. We'll never know.

What I do know is after two seasons of less than acceptable production from Uribe, we have a glaring need to upgrade one of the most important positions on the field. An upgrade was available and we didn't get him. I'm hoping Kenny brought Uribe back as an insurance policy and he goes out and still upgrades SS via trade for Furcal, or Anaheim's Cabrera.

KW has already stated he was shocked at how fast Renteria got traded. Maybe that is simply a smokescreen to throw off the wolves, but considering how fast it went down, I'm not surprised that he is surprised.

drewcifer
11-09-2007, 09:28 AM
I'm hoping Kenny brought Uribe back as an insurance policy and he goes out and still upgrades SS via trade for Furcal, or Anaheim's Cabrera.

There you go. Still lots of time.

FedEx227
11-09-2007, 09:46 AM
But just remember what Ozzie said, Uribe doesn't know how good he is, or how good he can be.

Just repeat that every offseason and periodically through the season after he has a good game in between 50 crappy ones.

Oblong
11-09-2007, 10:05 AM
KW has already stated he was shocked at how fast Renteria got traded. Maybe that is simply a smokescreen to throw off the wolves, but considering how fast it went down, I'm not surprised that he is surprised.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the trade was agreed upon before the season even ended. The last few weeks of the season the talk intensified that Carlos Guillen would move to first and the team would acquire a SS. At first he was hesitant, saying that he was still good enough and that a replacement wouldn't be better. He even called out Jack Wilson as not being an ugrade. A reporter mentioned Renteria and Guillen said "He'd be good" A week or so later it was announced he'd be the first baseman in 2008 and Casey wouldn't be back. Guillen said he was happy with the move and said of his eventual replacement "He'll be good" which at the time made me think the eventual deal was already agreed to. That's just me reading between the lines.

upperdeckusc
11-09-2007, 10:32 AM
there is nothing out there, thats why we had to pick up the option so at least we have something if we cant upgrade through a trade. I believe furcal is coming.

Im not paying eckstein 10 mil per, Im just not

he wont get 10 mil per, 5-6 max for 2 yrs. i'd give him that over uribe until we find a permanent long-term replacement. he doesnt have as good of a arm, so what? he's do-able on defense (besides this past yr, he's had fielder % in the .980s) and good on offense with avg and obp. and would actually give us a leadoff hitter. we save the 4.5 mil from uribe and put it towards eckstein. that's not my #1 option, but i'd prefer it over uribe, his obp, his laziness, and no leadoff hitter.

AZChiSoxFan
11-09-2007, 10:38 AM
2. How could Kenny have prevented the trade to the Tigers? He is not Bowie Kuhn.



LOL!!!