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View Full Version : Gold Glove Winners


JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 04:56 PM
AL Winners (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071106&content_id=2293603&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

NL Winners (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071106&content_id=2293518&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)


Congrats A-ROW!

spawn
11-06-2007, 04:57 PM
What, no White Sox players won one???

thomas35forever
11-06-2007, 04:59 PM
What, no White Sox players won one???
I know! Surely, Uribe deserved one!

JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm surprised John McDonald didn't win one. I thought for sure he'd have one this year, the way he played short.

DumpJerry
11-06-2007, 05:06 PM
What, no White Sox players won one???
Torii Hunter got one again.

chisoxmike
11-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Rowand got one? Geez.

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 05:19 PM
Still the worst postseason award in baseball history.

Only if you're a good hitter or in a decent market does your defense get recognized.

There is no reason Tulowitzki or John McDonald shouldn't have had those awards.

mrfourni
11-06-2007, 05:47 PM
I don't watch enough National (Minor) League Baseball, but does Maddux earn the Gold Glove every year or is he just winning it now on reputation alone?

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 05:49 PM
I don't watch enough National (Minor) League Baseball, but does Maddux earn the Gold Glove every year or is he just winning it now on reputation alone?

At this point most likely reputation. It's not like he does anything above and beyond any other pitcher in the NL.

Foulke You
11-06-2007, 05:56 PM
Whoops! Aaron Rowand is listed as a pitcher on that list.:rolleyes: Way to go MLB.com.

eriqjaffe
11-06-2007, 05:57 PM
Whoops! Aaron Rowand is listed as a pitcher on that list.:rolleyes: Way to go MLB.com.He has remarkable range for a pitcher, what with all the flyballs he catches.

Foulke You
11-06-2007, 05:58 PM
Still the worst postseason award in baseball history.

Only if you're a good hitter or in a decent market does your defense get recognized.

There is no reason Tulowitzki or John McDonald shouldn't have had those awards.
Agreed. It has become a farce really. Hunter got a gold glove in '05 and he was hurt for half the season. Chavez always got the nod over Crede too. I have no idea why offensive stats should ever play a part in it either but they seem to. Isn't that what the Silver Slugger awards are for?

Foulke You
11-06-2007, 05:59 PM
He has remarkable range for a pitcher, what with all the flyballs he catches.
It takes a lot of hard work for a pitcher to crash into the outfield wall.:D:

MrT27
11-06-2007, 06:33 PM
It takes a lot of hard work for a pitcher to crash into the outfield wall.:D:
He avoids crashing into walls, like all baseball players are taught.

Anyway how did someone form Colorado not get one?

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 07:07 PM
He avoids crashing into walls, like all baseball players are taught.

Anyway how did someone form Colorado not get one?

Exactly. Troy was unbeliveable at short all year, plus they made the fewest errors. While I don't think errors are a really good measure of how good/bad a defense is, when you watch Colorado you see that they are aggressive as well.

Aggressive and don't make errors, yet Jimmy Rollins gets the nod. That's wonderful.

What a farse.

soxinem1
11-06-2007, 07:18 PM
The politics of the GG has been horrendous for years. I remember when Rafael Palmeiro won a GG in the late 90's and he only played about 20 games at 1B that year!

And how NO ONE from COL won a GG is beyond me, that was the best defensive team in MLB this year, and one of the best in history.

WhiteSoxJunkie
11-06-2007, 07:23 PM
It's a sham award, but congrats to Aaron Rowand!

soxinem1
11-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Youkilis?

With total objectivity, I think Konerko deserved the award in 2005 and 2007.

Sham, sham, sham.

But hats of to Rowand, he deserved it.

Oblong
11-06-2007, 07:29 PM
Pudge Rodriguez winning again and Curtis Granderson not winning stand out as problems for me.

But hey... it's the gold glove award. What do we expect? Same story every year. Handful of guys win on reputation and handful of deserving winners are left empty handed.

These awards should mean nothing.

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 07:43 PM
Pudge Rodriguez winning again and Curtis Granderson not winning stand out as problems for me.

But hey... it's the gold glove award. What do we expect? Same story every year. Handful of guys win on reputation and handful of deserving winners are left empty handed.

These awards should mean nothing.

See that's the biggest problem.

When you're with a whole bunch of people (this board) that understand the award is a sham nobody cares and you can just move on.

But when you try and argue with idiots and they cite Gold Gloves as reference it gets annoying, that's where the award pretty pisses me and most people off.

I'd chose to just ignore them but whenever you say Jeter is a bad defender 7,000 people jump on with "HE HAS 3 GOLD GLOVES, HES NOT A BAD DEFENDER"

Brian26
11-06-2007, 07:43 PM
He has remarkable range for a pitcher, what with all the flyballs he catches.

Even when he takes bad routes off the mound?

South Side Irish
11-06-2007, 08:56 PM
Hello Yadier Molina?

Threw out 50% of baserunners... and only 40 some even attempted to run on him. When he missed 30 games in May and Sept, teams stole 30 of 35 on the Cards. You don't think that makes a difference? And his catching ERA was like 4.30, catching the crap hurlers that threw for the Cardinals, a half point lower than the regular season ERA.

OH, and the NL award went to... NL errors leader RUSSELL MARTIN. You've got to be ****ing kidding me.

JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 09:38 PM
Youkilis?

With total objectivity, I think Konerko deserved the award in 2005 and 2007.

Sham, sham, sham.

But hats of to Rowand, he deserved it.

Konerko had a great season at 1st in 2007, although Youkilis was better.

In 141 games for Pauly he had a .996 FP with 5 errors

In 135 games for Youkilis he had a 1.000 FP 0 Errors

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 09:40 PM
Konerko had a great season at 1st in 2007, although Youkilis was better.

In 141 games for Pauly he had a .996 FP with 5 errors

In 135 games for Youkilis he had a 1.000 FP 0 Errors

Ugh, fielding percentage.

Player A had a 1.000 FP in LF. Unfortunately he didn't move the entire season and only fielded balls hit directly to him but who cares?! 1.000 FP!

JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 09:49 PM
Ugh, fielding percentage.

Player A had a 1.000 FP in LF. Unfortunately he didn't move the entire season and only fielded balls hit directly to him but who cares?! 1.000 FP!

Konerko did have way more put outs

with 1180 compared to Youkilis' 990.

Youkilis had more assists though with 90 over Konerko's 71

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 10:09 PM
Konerko did have way more put outs

with 1180 compared to Youkilis' 990.

Youkilis had more assists though with 90 over Konerko's 71

Konerko had 1180 putouts over 141 games so roughly 8.3 putouts/game

Youkilis had 990 putouts over 135 games roughly 7.3 putouts/game.

So only a difference of about 1 per game, so nothing huge.

I'm not leaning one way or the other just pointing it out.

TheOldRoman
11-06-2007, 10:11 PM
Typical bull**** this year, but at least Jeter didn't win. Nothing stands out more than Youkillis. At the health club tonight, I watched ESPNews as they talked about the winners. They showed all the guys making great plays... except for Youkilis.

They showed him attempt to take a throw that bounced a few feet in front of him. It bounced into his sizable gut, where it hit his glove and he bobbled it. He finally grabbed onto the ball, a split second before the runner got to the base. Then, he inexplicable falls on his face like a buffoon, and has the nerve to hold the ball up to the umpire as if to show he made a great play. Sadly, that probably is the best play he made all year. But at least every time ESPN picks up Red Sox games next year (roughly 35), we get to see Youkilis make routine plays followed by John Miller mentioning how he own a GG and most people don't realize his defensive prowess.:rolleyes:

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Typical bull**** this year, but at least Jeter didn't win. Nothing stands out more than Youkillis. At the health club tonight, I watched ESPNews as they talked about the winners. They showed all the guys making great plays... except for Youkilis.

They showed him attempt to take a throw that bounced a few feet in front of him. It bounced into his sizable gut, where it hit his glove and he bobbled it. He finally grabbed onto the ball, a split second before the runner got to the base. Then, he inexplicable falls on his face like a buffoon, and has the nerve to hold the ball up to the umpire as if to show he made a great play. Sadly, that probably is the best play he made all year. But at least every time ESPN picks up Red Sox games next year (roughly 35), we get to see Youkilis make routine plays followed by John Miller mentioning how he own a GG and most people don't realize his defensive prowess.:rolleyes:

Exactly my point. We all know GG's are worthless so it's fine in this domain, whatever, worthless.

But then you have to watch ESPN where arguments of defense prowess are not made on speed/range/ability to get to balls... no arguments are ended with he won a Gold Glove!

DSpivack
11-06-2007, 11:17 PM
Exactly my point. We all know GG's are worthless so it's fine in this domain, whatever, worthless.

But then you have to watch ESPN where arguments of defense prowess are not made on speed/range/ability to get to balls... no arguments are ended with he won a Gold Glove!

You don't have to.

ShoelessJoeS
11-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Still the worst postseason award in baseball history.

Only if you're a good hitter or in a decent market does your defense get recognized.

There is no reason Tulowitzki or John McDonald shouldn't have had those awards.Agree completely. Gold Gloves are a ****in joke.

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 11:31 PM
You don't have to.

If you wanna watch National baseball without paying out of the ass, unfortunately you do. Luckily, I got MLB.tv last year, but that still doesn't replace sitting on your ass or at my friends theater room watching out-of-market baseball which we can only get on ESPN/TBS.

manders_01
11-06-2007, 11:31 PM
The politics of the GG has been horrendous for years. I remember when Rafael Palmeiro won a GG in the late 90's and he only played about 20 games at 1B that year!

And how NO ONE from COL won a GG is beyond me, that was the best defensive team in MLB this year, and one of the best in history.

Still the worst postseason award in baseball history.

Only if you're a good hitter or in a decent market does your defense get recognized.

There is no reason Tulowitzki or John McDonald shouldn't have had those awards.

Although the entire team was outstanding on defense, Holliday and Tulo should have been locks for a GG. Although this seriously ticks me off, I know I can't take any stock in this.

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 11:37 PM
Although the entire team was outstanding on defense, Holliday and Tulo should have been locks for a GG. Although this seriously ticks me off, I know I can't take any stock in this.

I'm with you man. I saw a game midseason on MLB.TV and Troy singlehandedly took over the game with his defense, NOTHING got through his area, when I saw that I said this guy is the best SS in the league if he doesn't get a gold glove this thing is a sham.

And here we are.

This will def. be a HUGE topic on my radio show tomorrow.

manders_01
11-06-2007, 11:47 PM
I'm with you man. I saw a game midseason on MLB.TV and Troy singlehandedly took over the game with his defense, NOTHING got through his area, when I saw that I said this guy is the best SS in the league if he doesn't get a gold glove this thing is a sham.

And here we are.

This will def. be a HUGE topic on my radio show tomorrow.

Tulo is seriously a freak! He is AMAZING!!! I've never seen any player like him - he makes watching the boring games fun.

What station is your show on and can I get it on the net? :D:

FedEx227
11-06-2007, 11:57 PM
Tulo is seriously a freak! He is AMAZING!!! I've never seen any player like him - he makes watching the boring games fun.

What station is your show on and can I get it on the net? :D:

It's on the net. BlogTalkRadio, show is 643 Sports www.blogtalkradio.com/643sports

(btw, Voodoo had no problem with me promoting it here, non-for-profit, screw around show)

we'd love for you to call in tomorrow manders. When you listen to the show it gives you a call in number so you can go direct with us.

manders_01
11-07-2007, 12:18 AM
It's on the net. BlogTalkRadio, show is 643 Sports www.blogtalkradio.com/643sports (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/643sports)

(btw, Voodoo had no problem with me promoting it here, non-for-profit, screw around show)

we'd love for you to call in tomorrow manders. When you listen to the show it gives you a call in number so you can go direct with us.

What time? If I get a break at work, I might just call in.

FedEx227
11-07-2007, 12:20 AM
What time? If I get a break at work, I might just call in.

We'll be live 7pm-8:30pm CST.

RockyMtnSoxFan
11-07-2007, 01:01 AM
Although the entire team was outstanding on defense, Holliday and Tulo should have been locks for a GG. Although this seriously ticks me off, I know I can't take any stock in this.

Tulo's numbers are so much better than Rollins's that they can't be ignored. He had 15% more putouts and 17% more assists than Rollins in fewer total innings. That is a big gap between #1 and #2. And you forgot to mention Helton. Conventional wisdom is that he's washed up, offensively and defensively. But he had 300 more putouts and a quarter of the errors that Derek Lee had (Lee was actually toward the middle of the pack in defensive stats). I saw Helton save errors from all of the other infielders. He has to be one of the best at picking the ball out of the dirt.

Although I kind of expected this sort of a disgrace, I'm still disappointed. A lot of times, it seems like a player should win the GG, but the numbers aren't overwhelmingly in his favor. This time, they are. Worse, I suspect this is an omen that Rollins will win the MVP as well. Grrr. :angry:

Boondock Saint
11-07-2007, 02:26 AM
The one year they decide not to give the damned thing to Chavez is the season that Crede doesn't play. ****ing figures.

ChiSoxFan35
11-07-2007, 04:14 AM
NY radio was basically laughing at Wright getting one.

It's funny though, everyone I talk to laughs at these awards and (things like AllStar game appearances), but when people are giving Hall of Fame credentials or comparing players, these type of things are always brought up. In years gone by, people don't remember the season, but might say, oh, he did win a gold glove back then (heard radio mention it when we signed Erstad).

manders_01
11-07-2007, 10:50 AM
Tulo's numbers are so much better than Rollins's that they can't be ignored. He had 15% more putouts and 17% more assists than Rollins in fewer total innings. That is a big gap between #1 and #2. And you forgot to mention Helton. Conventional wisdom is that he's washed up, offensively and defensively. But he had 300 more putouts and a quarter of the errors that Derek Lee had (Lee was actually toward the middle of the pack in defensive stats). I saw Helton save errors from all of the other infielders. He has to be one of the best at picking the ball out of the dirt.

Although I kind of expected this sort of a disgrace, I'm still disappointed. A lot of times, it seems like a player should win the GG, but the numbers aren't overwhelmingly in his favor. This time, they are. Worse, I suspect this is an omen that Rollins will win the MVP as well. Grrr. :angry:

I have that feeling too. Which totally peeves me off. Matt should be a shoe-in and I feel that he may be passed up by many due to his "lowly" team.

russ99
11-07-2007, 11:55 AM
Exactly. Troy was unbeliveable at short all year, plus they made the fewest errors. While I don't think errors are a really good measure of how good/bad a defense is, when you watch Colorado you see that they are aggressive as well.

Aggressive and don't make errors, yet Jimmy Rollins gets the nod. That's wonderful.

What a farce.

Agreed. Still, this contest has been tilted towards offense (and more popular players) for years, especially when Ryne Sandberg used to get it every year despite more qualified players who didn't play in a major market or hit homers as well as he did.

Why should Troy get a break when the almost universally recognized best defensive shortstop in the NL never gets a gold glove?

I'm referring to Adam Everett, who was injured most of the year, and so likely out of consideration. It's not his fault he can't hit his way out of a paper bag and plays in Houston...

manders_01
11-07-2007, 12:09 PM
Agreed. Still, this contest has been tilted towards offense (and more popular players) for years, especially when Ryne Sandberg used to get it every year despite more qualified players who didn't play in a major market or hit homers as well as he did.

Why should Troy get a break when the almost universally recognized best defensive shortstop in the NL never gets a gold glove?

I'm referring to Adam Everett, who was injured most of the year, and so likely out of consideration. It's not his fault he can't hit his way out of a paper bag and plays in Houston...

Tulo ended the year with a .291 BA, 24 HR and 99 RBIs. I'd say his offense backs up his defense.

I don't think his being deserving of a GG is giving him a break. His stats, along with his being a rookie, make my opinion that he should have been awarded it. But, we all know what they say about opinions...:tongue:

russ99
11-07-2007, 12:12 PM
Tulo ended the year with a .291 BA, 24 HR and 99 RBIs. I'd say his offense backs up his defense.

I don't think his being deserving of a GG is giving him a break. His stats, along with his being a rookie, make my opinion that he should have been awarded it. But, we all know what they say about opinions...:tongue:

Understand, but if you're awarding the best defensive player, offense shouldn't be part of the equation.

balke
11-07-2007, 01:22 PM
I wish we lived in a time where voting for GG would be taken more seriously. There's no better AL defensive 3Bman than Adrian Beltre? Come on, make the award mean something.

manders_01
11-07-2007, 01:27 PM
Understand, but if you're awarding the best defensive player, offense shouldn't be part of the equation.

Agreed

thedudeabides
11-07-2007, 04:58 PM
Although the entire team was outstanding on defense, Holliday and Tulo should have been locks for a GG. Although this seriously ticks me off, I know I can't take any stock in this.

Holliday may have improved, but he is not a great defender by any means. This award goes to three outfielders, not necessarily a LF. You really think he is a top three defensive outfielder in all of the NL?

manders_01
11-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Holliday may have improved, but he is not a great defender by any means. This award goes to three outfielders, not necessarily a LF. You really think he is a top three defensive outfielder in all of the NL?

Actually, yes I do. On stats alone, he had a FPCT of .990 with 3 errors. On what I've seen, he does a lot of excellent work out there. But as I said above, that's only my opinion.

Nelson Foxtrot
11-08-2007, 05:00 AM
I know statistics (especially fielding) will never be as good as what you can see with your own eyes, but Fielding Win Shares seem to be the most comprehensive defensive stat. It does have its flaws and aims to show how many wins a player was worth, so it hurts those (Molina, McDonald, etc.) who didn't play as many games. Here are the position players who would win GGs by this method:
AL
C Kenji Johjima SEA (Rodriguez 4th)
1B Kevin Youkilis BOS
2B Mark Ellis OAK (Polanco 5th)
SS Juan Uribe CHW (Cabrera 2nd)
3B Mike Lowell BOS (Beltre 9th)
OF Coco Crisp BOS (Sizemore 4th)
OF Vernon Wells TOR (Hunter 6th)
OF Curtis Granderson DET (Suzuki 13th)
NL
C Chris Snyder ARI (Martin 2nd)
1B Derek Lee CHC
2B Brandon Phillips CIN (Hudson 2nd)
SS Troy Tulowitzki COL (most in baseball) (Rollins 9th)
3B Ryan Zimmerman WAS (Wright 3rd)
OF Andruw Jones ATL
OF Chris Young ARI (Francoeur 8th, Rowand 9th)
OF Carlos Beltran NYM/Jacque Jones CHC (tie)

RockyMtnSoxFan
11-08-2007, 12:14 PM
I know statistics (especially fielding) will never be as good as what you can see with your own eyes, but Fielding Win Shares seem to be the most comprehensive defensive stat. It does have its flaws and aims to show how many wins a player was worth, so it hurts those (Molina, McDonald, etc.) who didn't play as many games. Here are the position players who would win GGs by this method:
AL
C Kenji Johjima SEA (Rodriguez 4th)
1B Kevin Youkilis BOS
2B Mark Ellis OAK (Polanco 5th)
SS Juan Uribe CHW (Cabrera 2nd)
3B Mike Lowell BOS (Beltre 9th)
OF Coco Crisp BOS (Sizemore 4th)
OF Vernon Wells TOR (Hunter 6th)
OF Curtis Granderson DET (Suzuki 13th)
NL
C Chris Snyder ARI (Martin 2nd)
1B Derek Lee CHC
2B Brandon Phillips CIN (Hudson 2nd)
SS Troy Tulowitzki COL (most in baseball) (Rollins 9th)
3B Ryan Zimmerman WAS (Wright 3rd)
OF Andruw Jones ATL
OF Chris Young ARI (Francoeur 8th, Rowand 9th)
OF Carlos Beltran NYM/Jacque Jones CHC (tie)

Hmm. I have a hard time believing a statistic that ranks Derek Lee as the best first baseman in the league, or puts Jacque Jones ahead of Aaron Rowand.

I think we can agree that defensive metrics are dubious at best. Nevertheless, Tulowitzki is clearly the biggest omission in the GG awards this year.

FedEx227
11-08-2007, 12:41 PM
I know statistics (especially fielding) will never be as good as what you can see with your own eyes, but Fielding Win Shares seem to be the most comprehensive defensive stat. It does have its flaws and aims to show how many wins a player was worth, so it hurts those (Molina, McDonald, etc.) who didn't play as many games. Here are the position players who would win GGs by this method:
AL
C Kenji Johjima SEA (Rodriguez 4th)
1B Kevin Youkilis BOS
2B Mark Ellis OAK (Polanco 5th)
SS Juan Uribe CHW (Cabrera 2nd)
3B Mike Lowell BOS (Beltre 9th)
OF Coco Crisp BOS (Sizemore 4th)
OF Vernon Wells TOR (Hunter 6th)
OF Curtis Granderson DET (Suzuki 13th)
NL
C Chris Snyder ARI (Martin 2nd)
1B Derek Lee CHC
2B Brandon Phillips CIN (Hudson 2nd)
SS Troy Tulowitzki COL (most in baseball) (Rollins 9th)
3B Ryan Zimmerman WAS (Wright 3rd)
OF Andruw Jones ATL
OF Chris Young ARI (Francoeur 8th, Rowand 9th)
OF Carlos Beltran NYM/Jacque Jones CHC (tie)

I think a combination of Fielding Win Shares and Zone Rating would be a good look, where'd you get the list for FWS?

Because Carlos Beltran being = to Jacque Jones is a bit :rolleyes: at best.

As far as catchers as someone mentioned above, passed balls, Pitcher ERA and CS is enough for me.