PDA

View Full Version : Miguel Cabrera


getonbckthr
11-05-2007, 04:04 PM
Just a crazy out of the box BCKTHR idea. We supposedly have all this Pitching in the minors ready to make the jump. We also have a 3rd basemen in a contract year age-wise at the career peak but coming off of back surgery. Also we have 3 OF prospects who are considered better than AAA but no more than 4th OF'rs in the majors. Would the Sox and Marlins consider this deal:
Sox get - Cabrera
FLA gets- Crede, Contreras, Anderson, Egbert, Aardsma, cash (contreras)
My thoughts.
Sox get someone to play LF for 2 seasons until Thome's contract runs out then he takes over DH. We'll break the bank for him. Hopefully Ozzie gets in his head about weight.
Marlins In Anderson they address their CF option cheaply with potential for great results. They get a solid prospect pitcher in Egbert. Aardsma could flourish in the closer role for a year or 2 in pressureless Florida. They possibly catch lightening in a bottle with Contreras with him bouncing back and either leading them to a playoff run or get a couple prospects at the deadline, ditto with Crede.

kittle42
11-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Ah, the "pile on the useless extra guys" trade proposal.

russ99
11-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Just a crazy out of the box BCKTHR idea. We supposedly have all this Pitching in the minors ready to make the jump. We also have a 3rd basemen in a contract year age-wise at the career peak but coming off of back surgery. Also we have 3 OF prospects who are considered better than AAA but no more than 4th OF'rs in the majors. Would the Sox and Marlins consider this deal:
Sox get - Cabrera
FLA gets- Crede, Contreras, Anderson, Egbert, Aardsma, cash (contreras)
My thoughts.
Sox get someone to play LF for 2 seasons until Thome's contract runs out then he takes over DH. We'll break the bank for him. Hopefully Ozzie gets in his head about weight.
Marlins In Anderson they address their CF option cheaply with potential for great results. They get a solid prospect pitcher in Egbert. Aardsma could flourish in the closer role for a year or 2 in pressureless Florida. They possibly catch lightening in a bottle with Contreras with him bouncing back and either leading them to a playoff run or get a couple prospects at the deadline, ditto with Crede.

I'd be all for it, but I doubt it happens. If the Fish deal Cabrera, they'll get young inexpensive players, not Crede and Contreras and their question marks/fat contracts.

Domeshot17
11-05-2007, 04:36 PM
Just a crazy out of the box BCKTHR idea. We supposedly have all this Pitching in the minors ready to make the jump. We also have a 3rd basemen in a contract year age-wise at the career peak but coming off of back surgery. Also we have 3 OF prospects who are considered better than AAA but no more than 4th OF'rs in the majors. Would the Sox and Marlins consider this deal:
Sox get - Cabrera
FLA gets- Crede, Contreras, Anderson, Egbert, Aardsma, cash (contreras)
My thoughts.
Sox get someone to play LF for 2 seasons until Thome's contract runs out then he takes over DH. We'll break the bank for him. Hopefully Ozzie gets in his head about weight.
Marlins In Anderson they address their CF option cheaply with potential for great results. They get a solid prospect pitcher in Egbert. Aardsma could flourish in the closer role for a year or 2 in pressureless Florida. They possibly catch lightening in a bottle with Contreras with him bouncing back and either leading them to a playoff run or get a couple prospects at the deadline, ditto with Crede.

One of the best bats in the game for Crede (pretty good, coming off sugery huge ?) Contreras (downside of his career, expensive, makes almost as much as the entire marlins payroll by himself) Anderson (bust CF spec) Egbert (good not great pitching spec, not a B spec but not a top A spec either) Aardsma (useless RP) and cash (which to be fair the marlins need).......


I don't see the fish biting it. I don't doubt they move Cabrera, they moved guys like Penny and Beckett, but when they do, they get awesome youth in return, not Brian Anderson and David Aardsma

spiffie
11-05-2007, 04:59 PM
Is there no way we can include Casey Rogowski, Ray Liotta, and Joe Borchard in this deal? Oh crap, the Marlins already have Borchard!

getonbckthr
11-05-2007, 05:01 PM
What i'm seeing is they trade Cabrera now they will get probably 3 prospects. The deal with the Sox will net between Egbert, 2 from Crede, 2 from Contreras and possibly 2 from Aardsma in a year or 2 a total of 7. As far as the money, they will get some from us for Contreras and then only pay Crede and Contreras for half a season.

chaerulez
11-05-2007, 05:05 PM
Cabrera a guy with a HOF career path so far, for 5 guys with 1 combined all star appearance, and no top 100 prospects in that list.

We have a better chance of getting A-Rod.

FedEx227
11-05-2007, 10:45 PM
Is there no way we can include Casey Rogowski, Ray Liotta, and Joe Borchard in this deal? Oh crap, the Marlins already have Borchard!

My plan is Rogowski, Liotta, Tomas Perez, Anderson, Egbert, Corwin Malone, Dewon Day, Aardsma and Reynoso for Miggy. Boom, lock it up.

A. Cavatica
11-05-2007, 11:49 PM
My plan is Rogowski, Liotta, Tomas Perez, Anderson, Egbert, Corwin Malone, Dewon Day, Aardsma and Reynoso for Miggy. Boom, lock it up.

I wouldn't do this deal. Don't want to let go of Reynoso.

pmck003
11-06-2007, 12:01 AM
I wouldn't do that trade if I was in charge of the Marlins, but I would offer just about anyone we could for Cabrera even if it hurts next year. I think it would take more like Fields, Crede and Garland, maybe cash. And I would be happy with that if we can sign Cabrera long-term.

Viva Medias B's
11-06-2007, 08:43 AM
Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis are available (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-flspmarlins06nbnov06,0,2443704.story?coll=sofla_ta b01_layout), per the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

The Dude
11-06-2007, 04:23 PM
Ah, the "pile on the useless extra guys" trade proposal.

Another getonbckthr masterpiece! :rolleyes:

gr8mexico
11-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Well this trade could be made. But you would have to give up top prospects The Sox should trade Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney and Lance Broadway for Miguel Cabrera. and do what ever it takes to sign Crede to a long term contract. Miguel could play LF until Thome retires or gets injured again.

Rockabilly
11-06-2007, 09:18 PM
"We are not going to comment on specific players or trade rumors. But he's an awfully good player, that's for sure.'' Several teams are interested in Cabrera, but the Chicago White Sox might engage in the most serious trade discussions. He is close friends with his Venezuelan countryman, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who was a Marlins coach when Cabrera was a rookie.

The Marlins are shopping Cabrera because of his salary as well as their concerns about his weight and attitude. When the Marlins played an interleague series in Chicago in June, Guillen hosted Cabrera at his home and scolded the slugger about his weight.

source west palm beach post

JermaineDye05
11-06-2007, 09:32 PM
If we get Cabrera, which would be great, I just wonder where's he gonna play. Does he stay at 3rd and we keep Josh in Left or does Josh stay at 3rd with Cabrera going back to left field. Or does Josh get packaged into a deal to Florida?

Rockabilly
11-06-2007, 09:55 PM
I believe Cabrera will put up monster numbers for the next few years but I would worried about his weight I see it as a problem in the years to come...

...
11-06-2007, 10:39 PM
How about trading Fields, Gio, DLS & Anderson for Miguel??

The Marlins get a young cheap replacement in Fields who is under club control for 5 more years as well as two excellent pitching prospects, one who is ML ready, one high ceiling. Anderson could use a change of scenery and FLA could use a CF.

Is this unreasonable? We could then resign Cabrera to a multi year deal and pass on Hunter and Rowand. I'd much rather have 26 year old Cabrera @ 17MM/year for 6 years than a 33 year old Torii Hunter for the same.

Cabrera would play LF, Crede 3B & Owens would play CF and leadoff short term.

Our Rotation:

Buehrle
Vazquez
Garland
Contrears
Danks

Floyd/Egbert/Broadway...

Obviously the bullpen would still need upgrading but KW would have the cash saved from not signing Hunter or Rowand and instead paying Cabrera.

MrT27
11-06-2007, 10:47 PM
We don't sniff the playoffs is Contreras is our #3 starter and Owens is our leadoff man

...
11-06-2007, 11:04 PM
We don't sniff the playoffs is Contreras is our #3 starter and Owens is our leadoff man

OK make Danks your #3 and put Contrears 4th. :D:

Even though I believe Contrears will do fine next year (4.30ish ERA), I forgot about a guy named Jon Garland who would be the 3rd starter.

The Immigrant
11-06-2007, 11:06 PM
If that guy spent six months living and eating in Chicago, he'd be pushing three bills in no time.

getonbckthr
11-06-2007, 11:17 PM
If that guy spent six months living and eating in Chicago, he'd be pushing three bills in no time.
Ozzie might physically kick his ass at that point

Grzegorz
11-07-2007, 05:39 AM
Ozzie might physically kick his ass at that point

Yeah, just like he did with Uribe...

Rockabilly
11-07-2007, 07:33 AM
One of the names that has been at the center of the Sox' talks, according to sources, is Florida Marlins third baseman Miguel Cabrera. The buzz on Day 2 of the meetings was the message the Marlins have sent to interested parties: They will entertain offers for Cabrera and left-hander Dontrelle Willis.

It's no secret Sox manager Ozzie Guillen is fond of Cabrera. The two Venezuelans formed a tight bond in 2003, when Cabrera was a rookie outfielder and Guillen was the third-base coach during the Marlins' World Series championship season.

Cabrera, 24, hit .320 with career highs in home runs (34) and RBI (119) last season. He has had at least 112 RBI in each of his four full seasons in the majors. The biggest knock against Cabrera is his work ethic, something that wouldn't figure to be a problem with Guillen riding him on a daily basis.

Florida wants young arms

The Marlins are said to be targeting young starting pitching, and the Sox have plenty of that. Sources say they might be willing to deal two of their top prospects, right-hander Lance Broadway and left-hander Gio Gonzalez. Landing Cabrera also might mean parting ways with Josh Fields.

Viva Medias B's
11-07-2007, 08:26 AM
If we get Cabrera, which would be great, I just wonder where's he gonna play. Does he stay at 3rd and we keep Josh in Left or does Josh stay at 3rd with Cabrera going back to left field. Or does Josh get packaged into a deal to Florida?

:hawk
"That's my line."

SouthSideLove
11-07-2007, 09:19 AM
IMHO, I would be plenty happy with doing a multi-player deal with the Marlins in order to land Cabrera. This would mean giving up a boatload of talent, but I personally would feel fine parting ways with Gio, Broadway, Anderson and Fields, for Miguel Cabrera, as long as we felt we had a good chance to resign him to a multi-year deal in 2009. He is going to be commanding nothing less then $20 million/year.

misty60481
11-07-2007, 09:34 AM
I would like to see us get Cabrera, but not for Fields, he is our future. Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar and put Cabrera in CF. According to his stats he can play the OF. Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.

Rocky Soprano
11-07-2007, 09:40 AM
I would like to see us get Cabrera, but not for Fields, he is our future. Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar and put Cabrera in CF. According to his stats he can play the OF. Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.

Cabrera in CF? He wasn't good enough to play LF and is not even that good at 3B, why in the world would you put him in CF?

You trade Richar and now you don't have anyone to play 2nd.

Try again.

JohnTucker0814
11-07-2007, 09:44 AM
I would like to see us get Cabrera, but not for Fields, he is our future. Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar and put Cabrera in CF. According to his stats he can play the OF. Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.

The only Cabrera that should be playing CF is Melky Cabrera... I'd take him.

Gammons Peter
11-07-2007, 09:47 AM
Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar


haahahahahahahahahaaha
yeah, the'll take that. Do you really think that is a legit offer, why don't you throw in Sisco to

spawn
11-07-2007, 09:49 AM
You trade Richar and now you don't have anyone to play 2nd.

Try again.
Not only that, but the Marlins already have a 2nd baseman I think they're pretty happy with.

spawn
11-07-2007, 09:53 AM
I would like to see us get Cabrera, but not for Fields, he is our future. Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar and put Cabrera in CF. According to his stats he can play the OF. Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.
I'm sorry, but that's is a ridiculous and idiotic comment.

Rocky Soprano
11-07-2007, 09:55 AM
I'm sorry, but that's is a ridiculous and idiotic comment.

I agree. I saw it but decided to ignore it. Glad someone else pointed it out.

russ99
11-07-2007, 09:58 AM
I'd be all for a Cabrera trade, even if Fields were involved, but the Sox really should hold onto Gio, as he's going to be an outstanding starter.

Giving up Fields and Broadway would hurt, but we'd get a heck of a player in return. Plus, it would be Kenny's first shot in the offseason, which I know we're all waiting for. :D:

Of course, we'd also have to move Crede for a left fielder for it to make sense...

Gammons Peter
11-07-2007, 09:58 AM
Latin players will eat there way out of baseball

I was more offended by the incorrect usage of "there"

CHIsoxNation
11-07-2007, 10:22 AM
De Luca of the Suntimes wrote some more about Cabrera today.

The Marlins are said to be targeting young starting pitching, and the Sox have plenty of that. Sources say they might be willing to deal two of their top prospects, right-hander Lance Broadway and left-hander Gio Gonzalez. Landing Cabrera also might mean parting ways with Josh Fields.

He also speculated the chance of having Hunter, Eckstein and Cabrera all in the same lineup.

Tops on the Sox' free-agent wish list are Minnesota Twins center fielder Torii Hunter and St. Louis Cardinals shortstop David Eckstein. Landing one or both of those players, then entertaining the idea of acquiring Cabrera likely means dealing first baseman Paul Konerko. There is a feeling Konerko, who has no-trade protection, would approve a deal to the Los Angeles Angels.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/638135,CST-SPT-deluca07.article

Gammons Peter
11-07-2007, 10:36 AM
De Luca of the Suntimes wrote some more about Cabrera today.



He also speculated the chance of having Hunter, Eckstein and Cabrera all in the same lineup.



http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/638135,CST-SPT-deluca07.article


That drillrod devoted several paragraphs to how Sox fans would want him because he taunted the cubs. Like we don't care about anything but hating the cubs.

CHIsoxNation
11-07-2007, 10:38 AM
That drillrod devoted several paragraphs to how Sox fans would want him because he taunted the cubs. Like we don't care about anything but hating the cubs.

Yeah I saw that too...pretty pathetic.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 10:42 AM
I'd be all for a Cabrera trade, even if Fields were involved, but the Sox really should hold onto Gio, as he's going to be an outstanding starter.

Giving up Fields and Broadway would hurt, but we'd get a heck of a player in return. Plus, it would be Kenny's first shot in the offseason, which I know we're all waiting for. :D:

Of course, we'd also have to move Crede for a left fielder for it to make sense...
There aren't many players I would trade Gio for. Cabrera is one of them.

Bucky F. Dent
11-07-2007, 11:43 AM
I understand why you would want to trade to upgrade at 3b.

But, it seems to me that you need to upgrade short and cf, so if you are going to cash out talent on a trade, cash it out for a position of need.

russ99
11-07-2007, 12:10 PM
There aren't many players I would trade Gio for. Cabrera is one of them.

I don't know. If he were signed for a longer contract, I'd still be hesitant to part with Gio. There's certainly a chance of the Sox dealing the farm for Cabrera and then him walking away in two years.

Palehose13
11-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Nothing would make me happier to get Cabrera in a White Sox uni for a good amount of years. Well...getting Crawford too would probably increase the happiness.

chisoxmike
11-07-2007, 01:05 PM
If, and this is a big if, the Sox can keep Gio out of this trade. I'd do it. I love Cabrera, he needs to lose about 50 pounds, but I'd support Kenny in this excursion.

Granted this was a fluff piece in the Sun-Times, so I highly doubt this is real.

thomas35forever
11-07-2007, 01:07 PM
Cabrera's only 24. If you think he's good now, he's going to be a beast when he reaches his prime. Even if it meant trading Crede or Fields, this would be a good deal IMO.

chaerulez
11-07-2007, 06:41 PM
I would like to see us get Cabrera, but not for Fields, he is our future. Give them Broadway, Owens, Richar and put Cabrera in CF. According to his stats he can play the OF. Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.

You wouldn't give up Fields, who at his best is Cabrera for the guy that is already proven? And your proposed trade is more lobsided than the original poster. He can play OF, not very well. And LF is different than playing CF. I don't know what "stats" you are looking at. As for that last comment, last time I checked David Wells wasn't latino. And players like Orlando Cabrera and Alfonso Soriano aren't fat.

PalehosePlanet
11-07-2007, 07:26 PM
Miguel Cabrerra would be an excellent pickup. Yes we'd lose Fields for sure, as well as some top SP prospects, but if we can lock him up now, with 2 years still remaining before he can become a free agent --- say 7/110-125 --- it would be a great move. He is only 24 and his numbers at this age are almost unmatchable. There is a very good chance he will have a better career than Manny Ramirez and as good as Vlad Guerrero.

This is a true, very young star people; let's grab him while we can.

FarWestChicago
11-07-2007, 07:33 PM
Also put him on diet, Latin players will eat there way out of baseball, put it in his contract he must show up under a certain weight or be fined.Are you related to Dog the Bounty Hunter? Take a break to ponder the nature of being a bigot that can't spell.

whitesoxfan
11-07-2007, 10:54 PM
Sox are definitely interested in Cabrera. But the Dodgers are offering Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw, AND LaRoche. We can't beat that package. Marlins are still holding out for more.

PalehosePlanet
11-07-2007, 11:05 PM
Sox are definitely interested in Cabrera. But the Dodgers are offering Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw, AND LaRoche. We can't beat that package. Marlins are still holding out for more.

You're joking right? The Dodgers would be insane to give up those 4 players. Maybe any combo of two of those guys and a mid-level prospect, but all 4???

If that rumor is true the Marlins would be nuts to pass on it.

southsideirish71
11-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Sox are definitely interested in Cabrera. But the Dodgers are offering Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw, AND LaRoche. We can't beat that package. Marlins are still holding out for more.

The Marlins would of jumped on that package, thats hard to beat. Kershaw is one of the best left handed prospects in baseball. Kemp is a stud as well.

DickAllen72
11-07-2007, 11:09 PM
But the Dodgers are offering Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw, AND LaRoche. We can't beat that package. Marlins are still holding out for more.
I believe I read that that's what the Marlins were asking, not what the Dodgers were offering.

whitesoxfan
11-07-2007, 11:10 PM
You're joking right? The Dodgers would be insane to give up those 4 players. Maybe any combo of two of those guys and a mid-level prospect, but all 4???

If that rumor is true the Marlins would be nuts to pass on it.

That's what I thought as well.

I have a friend that knows the Marlins new GM (just was promoted a couple of weeks ago). He knew about the Jacque Jones near deal last year about 4 hours before it broke out. So I trust him in what he's telling me.

Anyway, if I'd be willing to bet, I'd say he's going to be on the Dodgers. I don't think any team is going to be willing to match that price and if the Marlins really want to trade Cabrera, that's probably going to be their best bet.

JorgeFabregas
11-07-2007, 11:15 PM
Hmm, where is this notion that the White Sox have plenty of young arms coming from? They have plenty of guys to fill out an AAA roster or be an emergency/fifth starter. I'm not sure how attractive such players are.

DickAllen72
11-07-2007, 11:21 PM
FWIW (probably not much), Bruce Levine is apparently reporting it would take Danks, Broadway, Gio and Fields to get Cabrera.

I would make that trade right now if it were true.

Brian26
11-07-2007, 11:37 PM
FWIW (probably not much), Bruce Levine is apparently reporting it would take Danks, Broadway, Gio and Fields to get Cabrera.

I would make that trade right now if it were true.

You're insane. You're going to give up 40%, and possibly even 60%, of the starting rotation three years from now AND FIELDS for Cabrera? One player isn't worth that.

southsideirish71
11-08-2007, 12:15 AM
You're insane. You're going to give up 40%, and possibly even 60%, of the starting rotation three years from now AND FIELDS for Cabrera? One player isn't worth that.

Are you kidding me. Cabrera is 24 years old. Look at his production and ask yourself, will Josh Fields even come close to that. Well will any sox player in the system or on the team come close to that. Hell take a look at his numbers in that very large pitchers ball park, and then think of the park our team plays in. His numbers are on pace with some of the greats.

Let me put it another way, would you trade those 4 players for Frank Thomas in his prime. Take a look at Franks numbers and then look at Cabreras. The 24 year old Cabrera mind you.

Grzegorz
11-08-2007, 05:38 AM
Why in the world would one give up a sizeable portion of their pitching to land a kid cannot find the dedication to come into camp in shape?

Forget it; we already have a player that cannot dedicate himself to conditioning.

And for all of you out there comparing Cabrera to Thomas I say and ask this: Sure Thomas was a great individual player but how many championships were won when he was the best player on the team?

Giving up loads of pitching for one offensive player, a player that does not delicate himself to his profession be stay in condition, is foolish. I'd also say that a player like this would be the antithesis of the player Ozzie is looking for in his quest to perfect 'Ozzieball'.

pmck003
11-08-2007, 08:20 AM
FWIW (probably not much), Bruce Levine is apparently reporting it would take Danks, Broadway, Gio and Fields to get Cabrera.

I would make that trade right now if it were true.

Course it hurt some overall for next year, but I'd do it without hesitation

Zisk77
11-08-2007, 09:04 AM
If we got Cabrera he'd have to play 1b or be a Dh because he is BRUTAL at 3b and OF and his weight is only likely to increase. My guess if we got him we'd be tradeing Konerko or Thome. It still seems to me we'd be given up so much for another pure slugger (granted he's really good). We'd get even slower. :dunno:

spiffie
11-08-2007, 10:39 AM
I'd make that deal. Danks is already beginning to look like his ceiling is middle of the rotation at best, Broadway seems about the same, and Gio would be a loss, but it sounds like there are guys coming up who can do as well or better than him. Figure our top 6 pitching prospects seem to be DLS, Gio, Egbert, Poreda, Broadway, Danks. I'm willing to give up 3 of those to get a special player like Cabrera.

Huisj
11-08-2007, 12:39 PM
I don't want Cabrera. The guy simply chokes in the pressure of the all star game. It's no wonder the AL always wins the all star game and consequently the World Series; it's because Miguel Cabrera has never had a hit in an all star game. He's been in it 4 years in a row now, and his cumulative stats are 0-5 with 1 RBI and 2 k's. I don't want those kinds of garbage numbers representing the Sox and the AL on the biggest stage of the summer. Remember, this one counts. If he was on the Sox, no more World Series wins for the Sox or the AL. He can take his .320 BA and 30 homers somewhere else. Psh, who needs regular season stats? There's only one october, and to win there you gotta win in July, baby.

JermaineDye05
11-08-2007, 12:55 PM
FWIW (probably not much), Bruce Levine is apparently reporting it would take Danks, Broadway, Gio and Fields to get Cabrera.

I would make that trade right now if it were true.\

I would only make that trade if Kenny would be able to sign Miguel to long extension.

EndemicSox
11-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Weight is a significant issue with Cabrera, as he seems to have put on at least 50 pounds(and it 'aint all muscle, far from it) in the past three years. Nevertheless, if I'm starting a franchise, I take him over all but a handfull of players, get it done KW!

Sockinchisox
11-08-2007, 02:17 PM
Rosenthal is saying the Angels are hot after Cabrera with the Marlins demanding Howie Kendrick (they would move Uggla to 3rd), but the Angels would rather give up Wood.

2 other possibilites to go in a trade would be Ervin Santana and Jeff Mathis.

BlackSox
11-08-2007, 03:11 PM
You're insane. You're going to give up 40%, and possibly even 60%, of the starting rotation three years from now AND FIELDS for Cabrera? One player isn't worth that.


Odds are, at best, one of those three pitchers will be a serviceable major leaguer.

Look at the history of our pitchers of the future: Ruffcorn, Ruffin, Baldwin, Rauch, Wells, Barcelo, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart, Ginter, Barcelo, Parque... and I'm sure I missing a ton of names here....

thomas35forever
11-08-2007, 05:33 PM
Odds are, at best, one of those three pitchers will be a serviceable major leaguer.

Look at the history of our pitchers of the future: Ruffcorn, Ruffin, Baldwin, Rauch, Wells, Barcelo, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart, Ginter, Parque... and I'm sure I missing a ton of names here....
Let's see...Carlos Castillo, Rocky Biddle, Felix Diaz...

BTW, you listed Barcelo twice.

DickAllen72
11-08-2007, 06:02 PM
You're insane. You're going to give up 40%, and possibly even 60%, of the starting rotation three years from now AND FIELDS for Cabrera? One player isn't worth that.
What was that kid's name we traded along with Gio and Rowand for Thome? He was supposed to be hot stuff, supposedly one of the best LHP prospects around. and we gave up him and Gio, yes the same Gio along with our starting CFer and one of the team leaders of the World Series champions for an old Jim Thome coming off major back issues.

How much more is a 24 year old Cabrera worth over Thome?

guillen4life13
11-08-2007, 06:50 PM
Odds are, at best, one of those three pitchers will be a serviceable major leaguer.

Look at the history of our pitchers of the future: Ruffcorn, Ruffin, Baldwin, Rauch, Wells, Barcelo, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart, Ginter, Barcelo, Parque... and I'm sure I missing a ton of names here....

Pun intended? (can't miss, missing, get it?) :redneck

From the looks of things, Cabrera would be best in a minimized defensive role. 1B or DH?

It's far too difficult to say what will happen with Cabrera with regards to what the Sox do. If the Sox are to get him, I would imagine that Konerko would be traded to LAA. LAA has to decide whether or not they will take A-Rod on. In an ideal situation, here's what would happen:

1) A-Rod doesn't sign with the Angels. The Angels turn to Konerko, who they've wanted since '05. Sox want Figgins. Crede and Kotchman are swapped to fill position vacancies for both teams. Sox pay some cash to offset financial difference. Leadoff dilemma is solved, team gets younger. Power lost is offset by OBP increase and speed.

2) Trade Kotchman to TB for Iwamura. The Rays have a surplus of infielders and could use Kotchman at 1B (move Pena to DH) or put Kotchman in at DH.

3) Sign Rowand at around $12-13M/yr for 5-6 years (that's just less than what he's asking). I'd rather have Aaron over Hunter since he's two years younger and offers more consistent offensive production.

4) Trade Fields, Gio, Sweeney, and one of (Anderson/Egbert/Phillips/Haeger/Broadway/Owens) to FLA for Cabrera.

5) Trade Jim Thome for minor league talent. Lose his contract.

6) Sign Sean Casey at around $5M/yr (2007 salary was $4M and he hit 4 HR, so I don't anticipate a huge salary increase). He hits for good OBP and average.


3B Figgins (upgrade)
SS Iwamura (upgrade)
DH Cabrera (upgrade)
RF Dye
CF Rowand (upgrade)
C Pierzynski
1B Casey (downgrade)
2B Richar
LF Owens

The huge negative is that we lose some major prospects. The positive is that the lineup is much more balanced. There's a significant loss in overall power production but you still can pencil Rowand in for 20HR. Dye and Cabrera both are good for 30-35HR. I would expect Cabrera to hit 40HR in 2008. Sure he has put on some weight, but if he hits the weight room, that fat can turn to muscle and his power numbers would go up.

But we all know this won't happen. I'm interested to see what happens between now and the end of the winter meetings.

And also, I'm getting tired of reading about how the Sox are penny pinchers. They have the 3rd highest payroll (above the Angels) in the AL and 4th in the MLB. Don't fault them for not trying to compete with the Sawx or Yankees. The Sox share their market with a more popular team, and the market is far smaller than NY, so the playing ground for that type of a competition is not level.

Foulke You
11-09-2007, 01:49 AM
Weight is a significant issue with Cabrera, as he seems to have put on at least 50 pounds(and it 'aint all muscle, far from it) in the past three years. Nevertheless, if I'm starting a franchise, I take him over all but a handfull of players, get it done KW!
Weight is certainly a significant concern for Cabrera. However, Guillen is supposed to be very close with Cabrera since their Marlins days together. I would hope Ozzie would be riding him on a daily basis if he was getting lazy or out of shape.

Cabrera's numbers are definitely gaudy and one could see how a lineup could become much more potent with his name penciled in. Another impressive thing about Cabrera's numbers is that he didn't have a ton of protection in the lineup down in Florida. It would be mind boggling to see what kind of numbers he could put up sandwiched between Konerko and Dye in our lineup and playing half his games in HR friendly Comiskey rather than the pitcher friendly Dolphin Stadium.:o:

gregory18n
11-09-2007, 03:19 AM
if we're going to lose many of our prospects, i'd prefer Crawford to a guy that may 'pop' before he takes the field for us.

Sargeant79
11-09-2007, 09:26 AM
What was that kid's name we traded along with Gio and Rowand for Thome? He was supposed to be hot stuff, supposedly one of the best LHP prospects around. and we gave up him and Gio, yes the same Gio along with our starting CFer and one of the team leaders of the World Series champions for an old Jim Thome coming off major back issues.

How much more is a 24 year old Cabrera worth over Thome?

It was Daniel Haigwood. IIRC, he is now out of baseball.

That's the thing about prospects. While scouting is important, it is often a complete crapshoot. I'm not advocating trading for Cabrera, but there is a lot to be said for having a good idea about what you're going to get. That's why teams tend to request the farm when trading an established player. They are assuming a sizeable risk in dealing with the possibility that none of the prospects they receive will pan out. (Remember when Jeremy Reed was going to be a HOF-center fielder?)

SBSoxFan
11-09-2007, 09:33 AM
It was Daniel Haigwood. IIRC, he is now out of baseball.

Holy crap, when/how did that happen?

Sargeant79
11-09-2007, 02:52 PM
Holy crap, when/how did that happen?

Don't know too much about the details on why...He would up in the Rangers organization and they DFA'd him this past April. Red Sox picked him up and he played in the Rookie league and in AA in their system this year. They just DFA's him a few weeks ago. To my knowledge, he hasn't been picked up.

SBSoxFan
11-09-2007, 03:32 PM
Don't know too much about the details on why...He would up in the Rangers organization and they DFA'd him this past April. Red Sox picked him up and he played in the Rookie league and in AA in their system this year. They just DFA's him a few weeks ago. To my knowledge, he hasn't been picked up.

Yeah, I saw that he made about 18 starts for the Red Sox this past season. I didn't know they DFA'd him. Heck, I didn't even know he wasn't with Philly anymore!

Sockinchisox
11-11-2007, 01:21 PM
Rosenthal is reporting the Sox are trying to trade for Cabrera with the intention of playing him in left field. He thinks a package of Gio, Fields, and Owens might get it done but it also might be too light.

Rotoworld is suggesting trading Garland for prospects and then packaging those prospects and sending them to Florida for Cabrera.

link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7432422

upperdeckusc
11-11-2007, 01:38 PM
Rosenthal is reporting the Sox are trying to trade for Cabrera with the intention of playing him in left field. He thinks a package of Gio, Fields, and Owens might get it done but it also might be too light.

Rotoworld is suggesting trading Garland for prospects and then packaging those prospects and sending them to Florida for Cabrera.

link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7432422

we dont need cabrera. of course he'd be nice, but not what they are asking for in return (i dont blame them at all for that, though). yes he's an amazing hitter, but a liability in the field. *cough* josh fields *cough*. now i know josh wont be hitting .330 anytime soon, but to give up fields and gio and owens.....i dunno. we just have other glaring weaknesses on our team, and to trade away 3 very talented players and still have holes like CF, SS, and bullpen on our team does nothing to improve our club as a whole.

Sockinchisox
11-11-2007, 01:41 PM
It's a long shot at best, as Rosenthal says, we're pretty much 4th in line for a shot at trading for him.

getonbckthr
11-11-2007, 01:43 PM
we dont need cabrera. of course he'd be nice, but not what they are asking for in return (i dont blame them at all for that, though). yes he's an amazing hitter, but a liability in the field. *cough* josh fields *cough*. now i know josh wont be hitting .330 anytime soon, but to give up fields and gio and owens.....i dunno. we just have other glaring weaknesses on our team, and to trade away 3 very talented players and still have holes like CF, SS, and bullpen on our team does nothing to improve our club as a whole.
We don't need a guy who is the best offensive player not named Pujols or Alex Rodriguez. Who also happens to be what 24 years old. I'll deal with 2 rough defensive years in LF for those numbers. Then when Thome leaves we have our DH.

DickAllen72
11-11-2007, 01:56 PM
If all it takes to get Cabrera is Fields, Gio and Owens, KW would have that deal done yesterday.

Domeshot17
11-11-2007, 02:07 PM
I love Cabrera because he is something we DONT have, a HIGH CONTACT HITTER. There is not one guy on our team we trust to hit .300 every year. Cabrera is that guy. We have plenty of 270 power hitters, but no 300 hitter.

Its a shame we have to move Fields to get him, but Cabrera is like the same age as Josh and is one of like 3 guys I would move Fields for.

getonbckthr
11-11-2007, 02:37 PM
I love Cabrera because he is something we DONT have, a HIGH CONTACT HITTER. There is not one guy on our team we trust to hit .300 every year. Cabrera is that guy. We have plenty of 270 power hitters, but no 300 hitter.

Its a shame we have to move Fields to get him, but Cabrera is like the same age as Josh and is one of like 3 guys I would move Fields for.
You might have put this as well as it could be said.

santo=dorf
11-11-2007, 08:07 PM
I love Cabrera because he is something we DONT have, a HIGH CONTACT HITTER. There is not one guy on our team we trust to hit .300 every year. Cabrera is that guy. We have plenty of 270 power hitters, but no 300 hitter.

Its a shame we have to move Fields to get him, but Cabrera is like the same age as Josh and is one of like 3 guys I would move Fields for.
uhhhh, aren't contact hitters known for their low strike out totals and not their batting averages? :?:
That isn't something Cabrera is known for.

Here's some good news:
The White Sox are in the mix for Miguel Cabrera, with the intention of playing him in left field, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports.

Rosenthal suggests a package of Josh Fields, Gio Gonzalez and Jerry Owens, though he admits it could be too light. Which it would be. Trading Jon Garland for a couple of prospects and then packaging those prospects with Fields and/or Gonzalez might work. The Marlins could also have some interest in Nick Masset and David Aardsma
Could the Sox really afford to give up Aardsma, Masset and Owens for Cabrera?

russ99
11-12-2007, 12:16 PM
Don't believe the hype.

I think the Sox are major players for Cabrera, and this notion that the Sox don't have a package that could land him is ridiculous stathead/BP-fueled nonsense.

Just cause the Sox don't have an über-prospect in the eyes of the stat-geeks, doesn't mean that a deal can't be done...

spiffie
11-12-2007, 12:46 PM
Don't believe the hype.

I think the Sox are major players for Cabrera, and this notion that the Sox don't have a package that could land him is ridiculous stathead/BP-fueled nonsense.

Just cause the Sox don't have an über-prospect in the eyes of the stat-geeks, doesn't mean that a deal can't be done...
Its not just stat geeks. Scouts don't really think we have any great shakes on the farm either. Both BP (stat geeks haven) and BA (scouting-centric) both seem down on our prospects. Especially at our higher levels there isn't much there that would be exciting if you're thinking of dealing a top-flight player like Cabrera. We have a lot of guys who could be okay. Danks, Sweeney, Anderson, Fields, Owens, Gio, Broadway. But out of those probably Fields and Gio are the only ones who stand much of a chance of ever making an All-Star game in their career.

Domeshot17
11-12-2007, 01:52 PM
Its not just stat geeks. Scouts don't really think we have any great shakes on the farm either. Both BP (stat geeks haven) and BA (scouting-centric) both seem down on our prospects. Especially at our higher levels there isn't much there that would be exciting if you're thinking of dealing a top-flight player like Cabrera. We have a lot of guys who could be okay. Danks, Sweeney, Anderson, Fields, Owens, Gio, Broadway. But out of those probably Fields and Gio are the only ones who stand much of a chance of ever making an All-Star game in their career.

I wouldn't give up on Danks just yet. The guy was Texas number 1 prospect when we got him. He still has a real chance to be a top of the rotation pitcher. It took Garland years to become more than a number 4 or 5 sp, so Im willing to give Danks another year or 2 before writing him off.

Taliesinrk
11-12-2007, 01:57 PM
Here's some good news:

Could the Sox really afford to give up Aardsma, Masset and Owens for Cabrera?

Are ya kidding? Just add Masset and Aardsma to the package with owens, gio, and fields!

Honestly though, if someone dealing in a trade with us thinks they want aardsma just throw him in to make them happier - no compensation needed. While Masset could be good, I don't think he has 1-3 starter potential.. so the question becomes, would we give up Aardsma, Masset, Owens, Gio, and Fields for Cabrera? Lots of names, but how much talent?

spiffie
11-12-2007, 02:17 PM
I wouldn't give up on Danks just yet. The guy was Texas number 1 prospect when we got him. He still has a real chance to be a top of the rotation pitcher. It took Garland years to become more than a number 4 or 5 sp, so Im willing to give Danks another year or 2 before writing him off.
I'm surprised you don't already have Danks above Garland :wink:

I'm not giving up on Danks, I just don't seen anything in him that suggests #1 starter material. I think he will be a useful starter for us the next few years, and hopefully mature into a nice middle-rotation guy. I just don't see anything in him that suggests #1 starter. Hopefully I'm wrong. But at this point I would imagine he is a supporting piece to a big trade, not the centerpiece a GM points to and says "Look what I brought to our club."