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View Full Version : Optimistic vs Realistic


getonbckthr
11-03-2007, 07:41 PM
-I'm sitting here looking at our team and looking at that of Detroit and Cleveland. You have to believe those teams are 90-95 win teams. Looking at our team as is and the potential moves we appear are gonna make can we honestly say we will be in that 90-95 win range? Question marks I see are 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, at least 1 SP and 6 bullpen spots. Sure dream scenario we sign Castillo for 2B, Arod at SS, Crede is healthy for 3B, Fields controls LF we sign a A. Jones or T. Hunter for CF, Contreras finds the 05 magic as does the bullpen and we win the Series in 08, thats would be very optimistic. Realistically we don't have that kind of money, I don't see Contreras finding it again and the bullpen is a pure crapshoot.
-My question is this do we make optimistic moves and hope and pray they work or do we realize 08 is not realistically a year to contend? Should we trade some veterans (Crede, Garland, Konerko etc etc) and go with a Marlin/DBack route and plan for 09/10 with a possible early emergence in 08?

JB98
11-03-2007, 07:52 PM
We should make moves and go for it in 2008.

Going the Marlin route is committing suicide in this market. Not even a consideration.

spiffie
11-03-2007, 08:33 PM
We should make moves and go for it in 2008.

Going the Marlin route is committing suicide in this market. Not even a consideration.
Problem is if we make moves thinking only of 2008, and we don't win, we could be looking at 3-4 years more of failure, and that would be true suicide. Last thing I want to see is a team loaded with bad contracts and no prospects for years to come.

Boondock Saint
11-03-2007, 09:06 PM
I think we need to make some moves, but try not to make a 180 in one season. Trade a vet or two, but have faith in the guys we got. Any of these guys can bounce back next year. What I'd like to see is some more speed and defense, as our lineup has found its way back to a long ball mentality.

HomeFish
11-03-2007, 09:41 PM
The White Sox are terrible at developing prospects. I'm not sure that the Marlins route is realistic for us. Also, it's no guarantee of success; just look at Pittsburgh and other teams that have been doing it for years with nothing to show for.

JB98
11-03-2007, 10:14 PM
Problem is if we make moves thinking only of 2008, and we don't win, we could be looking at 3-4 years more of failure, and that would be true suicide. Last thing I want to see is a team loaded with bad contracts and no prospects for years to come.

But we don't have any bad contracts right now, except for Contreras. And he's off the books after 2009. He'll be more tradeable next offseason than he is now.

We've got enough young pitching in the pipeline that I don't think we're in as bad a shape as some people believe. The key is developing that young pitching.

TDog
11-03-2007, 10:54 PM
-I'm sitting here looking at our team and looking at that of Detroit and Cleveland. You have to believe those teams are 90-95 win teams. ...
-My question is this do we make optimistic moves and hope and pray they work or do we realize 08 is not realistically a year to contend? Should we trade some veterans (Crede, Garland, Konerko etc etc) and go with a Marlin/DBack route and plan for 09/10 with a possible early emergence in 08?

I don't believe the Tigers and Indians are certain to be 90-to-95-win teams. The Tigers weren't a 90-win team in 2007 despite getting more from Ordonez than they can expect to get next year. Both the Tigers and Indians have bullpens that could have disastrous seasons. In fact, the Indians bullpen was disastrous in 2006 when the Indians weren't a 90-win team.

Of course, you make optimistic moves. You don't have to rely on prayer for them to work any more than Indians and Tigers fans need to rely on prayer for their team's success. If the optimistic moves inspire prayer, trading veterans for good young players would inspire attendance at mass at least two or three times a day.

chisoxmike
11-03-2007, 10:59 PM
NEVER concede a season. Always put the best team possible on field.

TDog
11-03-2007, 11:10 PM
NEVER concede a season. Always put the best team possible on field.

Well put.

spiffie
11-04-2007, 12:01 AM
But we don't have any bad contracts right now, except for Contreras. And he's off the books after 2009. He'll be more tradeable next offseason than he is now.

We've got enough young pitching in the pipeline that I don't think we're in as bad a shape as some people believe. The key is developing that young pitching.
The lack of bad contracts is why I would like to avoid the offseason market. Right now this is a team totally in flux. We have question mark youngsters in Sweeney, Anderson, Owens, Fields, Richar, Danks, Masset, and possibly Broadway. By 2009 we hopefully will know which of those kids are part of a long-term future. We'll either have extended or traded (or just parted ways with) Garland. We'll likely have a better understanding of the Crede situation. We might be ready to part ways with Thome and his 2009 option.

I guess I just don't see any moves out there that really make us a contender for next year. So in lieu of that I'd rather give as much time as possible to our young kids and try to see which guys can be major pieces for the future, and have as much flexibility as possible for 2009 and onward, when some of those young pitchers (Gio, DLS, Egbert, Poreda) can hopefully become pieces of the rotation and help us free up resources for major FA signings.

jabrch
11-04-2007, 12:08 AM
I don't believe the Tigers and Indians are certain to be 90-to-95-win teams.

Me neither.

We are no lock to be good - and we are no lock to be as bad as we were this year. But if you are painting a scenario that has the Sox being a 90 loss team in 2008, you can easily paint a scenario where the Tigers or the Indians fail to win 90 games...

JB98
11-04-2007, 12:25 AM
The lack of bad contracts is why I would like to avoid the offseason market. Right now this is a team totally in flux. We have question mark youngsters in Sweeney, Anderson, Owens, Fields, Richar, Danks, Masset, and possibly Broadway. By 2009 we hopefully will know which of those kids are part of a long-term future. We'll either have extended or traded (or just parted ways with) Garland. We'll likely have a better understanding of the Crede situation. We might be ready to part ways with Thome and his 2009 option.

I guess I just don't see any moves out there that really make us a contender for next year. So in lieu of that I'd rather give as much time as possible to our young kids and try to see which guys can be major pieces for the future, and have as much flexibility as possible for 2009 and onward, when some of those young pitchers (Gio, DLS, Egbert, Poreda) can hopefully become pieces of the rotation and help us free up resources for major FA signings.

You don't see any moves, but perhaps KW does. I can't concede 2008 in November. Those young pitchers are all still two years away, so I don't see why we shouldn't try to make one more run with the veteran core we have.

In addition, 2007 showed me a lot about which of the young kids you listed in the first paragraph are a big part of our future, and which ones are not. I don't think I need all of 2008 to make a judgement. Of that group, only Sweeney and Broadway have the jury still out with me.

spiffie
11-04-2007, 01:23 AM
You don't see any moves, but perhaps KW does. I can't concede 2008 in November. Those young pitchers are all still two years away, so I don't see why we shouldn't try to make one more run with the veteran core we have.

In addition, 2007 showed me a lot about which of the young kids you listed in the first paragraph are a big part of our future, and which ones are not. I don't think I need all of 2008 to make a judgement. Of that group, only Sweeney and Broadway have the jury still out with me.
I hope Kenny sees the moves, makes the moves, and lets us bust out the celebration dance moves in October 2008. But as long as we're here bull****ting on a message board, where nothing any of us say about anything means a damn thing in the grand scheme of things, I'm going to stick with my assessment that I don't think anything on the FA market, short of making 2-3 major acquisitions, is going to make as big an impact as our guys staying healthy and our young kids getting to the next level could make.

I don't see why 2008 is necessarily conceded if we stay out the FA market. If the young kids turn out to be solid players, and the vets stay healthy, and we get good pitching from our guys, we've got a chance.

I disagree I guess on the young guys. We've seen 1/2 seasons from Owens and Richar. I want to see what they can do if given the job for a full year. I'd like to see if Fields can turn himself into a passable LF in the event Crede is healthy and retainable. I'd like to see if Danks can get stronger and give us a full year of solid performance. Hell, I'd like to see what Masset and Floyd have.

misty60481
11-04-2007, 06:45 AM
KW promised a Sox team that would compete in 08, I intend to hold him to his wird. Worry about 09 after 08 is over. Also if he went that route, trading our older players he better lower ticket prices I dont want to spend good money to watch a bunch of young players struggling to become major leagures.