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View Full Version : What if the White Sox had moved to Addison?


Fenway
11-02-2007, 12:16 PM
20 years after the proposed move to Addison, I wonder how the White Sox fan base might have changed had the plan gone through.

The team would have been far removed from their traditional fan base and for fans in the city proper they might as well be in St Petersburg.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Lake+St+%26+Swift+Rd,+DuPage,+Illinois,+United+S tates&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.252269,62.753906&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,41.953220,-88.041690&ll=41.974296,-88.041687&spn=0.945405,1.96106&z=9&om=1

itsnotrequired
11-02-2007, 12:18 PM
I know I wouldn't be going to nearly as many games.

thomas35forever
11-02-2007, 12:19 PM
I live in Lombard, so I'd imagine going to a lot of games.:D:

SoxFan78
11-02-2007, 12:25 PM
I would be going to a lot more games when I was younger thats for sure. But if they did build it out there, it would be horrible traffice over there if there were any big tournaments at Medinah the same time a game was going on.

Fenway
11-02-2007, 12:33 PM
I would be going to a lot more games when I was younger thats for sure. But if they did build it out there, it would be horrible traffice over there if there were any big tournaments at Medinah the same time a game was going on.

I would guess they would be on the road during a golf event.

I am guessing the nearest METRA stop would be Medinah which is still a hike. I can't see anything closer.

FoulkeFan
11-02-2007, 12:39 PM
This was a train wreck that was very nearly avoided, IMO. They would've moved out to the suburbs right before everyone began building or updating new stadiums in the downtown areas. Bridgeport is near public transportation as well as downtown Chicago.

Of course, I live in Tinley Park, so I probably wouldn't be a season ticket holder if I had to drive out to Addison for the games. So I'm a little biased already!

DSpivack
11-02-2007, 12:50 PM
I probably wouldn't have become a Sox fan. Easy to hop on the train from Evanston down to the park, but driving out to Addison, would probably have only gone to a game or two per summer, not 5-10 as usual.

Hitmen77
11-02-2007, 01:25 PM
This was a train wreck that was very nearly avoided, IMO. They would've moved out to the suburbs right before everyone began building or updating new stadiums in the downtown areas. Bridgeport is near public transportation as well as downtown Chicago.

Of course, I live in Tinley Park, so I probably wouldn't be a season ticket holder if I had to drive out to Addison for the games. So I'm a little biased already!

I agree - this would have been a train wreck.

I remember JR touting Addision by saying that a lot of Sox season ticket holders lived in DuPage Co. Maybe...but there still seems to be more Cub fans out here than Sox. Having the Sox move to Addison probably would have turned DuPage into a big Sox fan bastion, but that would have paled in comparison to the Sox giving up the entire city to the Cubs.

As you said, this was just before the big urban rival push (not just in baseball, but in more generally too). Within 10 years, that suburban location would have been sadly out of date. We'd hear about how the Sox can't get people to drive out to Addison (especially for weeknight games) and how the Sox really have no identity other than a suburban team. Staying at 35th St. sounded like a bad idea in the late 80s, but it's turning out to be great for the Sox in the long run - accessible by both car and public transportation and only 4 el stops from the Loop.

Foulke You
11-02-2007, 02:34 PM
As you said, this was just before the big urban rival push (not just in baseball, but in more generally too). Within 10 years, that suburban location would have been sadly out of date. We'd hear about how the Sox can't get people to drive out to Addison (especially for weeknight games) and how the Sox really have no identity other than a suburban team. Staying at 35th St. sounded like a bad idea in the late 80s, but it's turning out to be great for the Sox in the long run - accessible by both car and public transportation and only 4 el stops from the Loop.
Excellent points. Another plus for the Sox is that the South Loop area is growing and growing. IIT is totally revamping their campus as well. They are even putting a freakin' Starbucks on 35th st. not too far from the Green Line stop there. Once the mixed income housing gets built on the Robert Taylor Homes site, the Sox will have even more residential fans within a stone's throw from the ballpark. This is why I don't expect attendance to ever fall to pre-2005 levels. It could drop if the Sox don't perform, that's a no brainer. However, I don't think you'll ever see 15,000-18,000 fans a game ever again.

chisoxmike
11-02-2007, 03:18 PM
20 years after the proposed move to Addison, I wonder how the White Sox fan base might have changed had the plan gone through.


The team would probably be more irrelevant than they are now.

A.T. Money
11-02-2007, 03:20 PM
It would have been very close to me.

But I'm happy they are where they are.

LITTLE NELL
11-02-2007, 03:25 PM
I lived in Wheaton at the time as was all for it then, but things change and Im now glad that Addison turned the Sox down. THe thing that p****d me off was the Sox moving Spring Training to Arizona. One of the reasons I retired to Florida was to see the Sox in the spring in Sarasota. At least I get to see them when they play the Rays in St Pete.

35th&Shields
11-02-2007, 05:17 PM
I grew up around there, so I imagine I would have gone to more games through high school than I did, but I would have gone to a lot fewer games than I did post-high school. It would be very hard for me to get out there now considering I don't even own a car and wouldn't go out there for any other reason.

Reinsdorf swears to this day that a move out there would have been in the best interest of the franchise.

October26
11-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Unlike the move to Florida, the move to Addison would not have been that bad. They still would have been the Chicago White Sox and would have played in the suburbs of the city where I lived, so I wouldn't have been as affected. When I was a kid, I didn't even know where Addison was (having grown up on the north side of Chicago). Now, living in the city and working downtown, I love that the Sox are conveniently located at 35th near the Dan Ryan and the Red Line. I am able to get to games (I especially love going to Friday night games) without too much of a hassle. I'm looking forward to the Dan Ryan construction nightmare ending and I hope it will be easier for me to get to US Cellular to see my beloved White Sox in 2008!

eriqjaffe
11-02-2007, 05:30 PM
I'm looking forward to the Dan Ryan construction nightmare ending and I hope it will be easier for me to get to US Cellular to see my beloved White Sox in 2008!You should start looking backwards:

http://www.suntimes.com/special_sections/danryan/621660,CST-NWS-danryan26.article

October26
11-02-2007, 05:35 PM
You should start looking backwards:

http://www.suntimes.com/special_sections/danryan/621660,CST-NWS-danryan26.article

Thanks for the update. Do you think we could get IDOT to setup a White Sox express lane on the Dan Ryan, so we can all get to The Cell faster? :cool:

jdm2662
11-02-2007, 05:39 PM
Well, I grew up in Hillside and moved to Elmhurst in 1999. I was still working in the West Burbs until 2004. I probably would've became a season ticket holder around 2000 or 2001. It's right in my backyard.

ws05champs
11-02-2007, 07:40 PM
Living in Elmhurst it takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to get to the Cell. If they moved to Addison it would probably take me 25 - 40 minutes to get there considering the traffic. I would save a whopping 20 minutes - big deal. What little additional convenience it would have had for me would have paled to the massive inconvenience it would have inflicted on the fans who live in Chicago or the southern suburbs. The Sox would never have been able to make up for the loss of those fans with the addition of newer west/northwest suburban fans. The Sox would eventually average about 10,000 per game and would have moved to another city long before now.

Beyond the convenience issue, it has been rather pleasent to see how the area around the Cell is changing. Getting to the Cell early during the 2005 post season so I could get into the parking lot and then walk around the neighborhood would not have been the same if it were in Addison (except the Sox would have moved away to another city long before 2005).

FedEx227
11-02-2007, 07:50 PM
I'm glad their still out there. Like ws05champs said, I live in Downers it would take me 40 minutes to get to Addison anyway. Something is always great too about trekking to "the city" to see a game.

chisox77
11-02-2007, 08:22 PM
I remember hating the idea. Nothing against Addison at all. It's just that Chicago teams have always been able to host and play their games within the city limits, true to the identity of "Chicago" being represented. The White Sox have been a strong part of that tradition.

Previous posts in this thread have made excellent points about urban renewal trends, and how suburbia had become dated for stadium locations. I agree. The South Loop is expanding, the skyline is becoming more impressive and stylish by the day, and some of that will trickle along the lakeshore, where the Robert Taylor Homes used to be. In other words, the Sox could not have picked a better place to STAY, then at 35th and Shields.


:cool:

Railsplitter
11-02-2007, 08:48 PM
I know I wouldn't be going to nearly as many games.I'd be going to more games. I've been to the Addison Dave & Busters more times than I've been to the Cell, and I believe the D&B is where JR wanted to builld in the first place.

bnlfanmatt
11-02-2007, 10:03 PM
Thanks for the update. Do you think we could get IDOT to setup a White Sox express lane on the Dan Ryan, so we can all get to The Cell faster? :cool:

A Sox only express lane? The reason all lanes on the Ryan back up is that's because that's where everyone is going! Of course, maybe not much longer if the Sox keep up their decline.

soxwon
11-02-2007, 11:52 PM
I lived there way back when. and worked for them to get into the town.
I woulda had a job in PR dept had they got the new prk.
Too bad, irt woulda been great.

soxwon
11-02-2007, 11:53 PM
I'd be going to more games. I've been to the Addison Dave & Busters more times than I've been to the Cell, and I believe the D&B is where JR wanted to builld in the first place.

Swift road beetween Army Trail And Lake street.

Brian26
11-02-2007, 11:57 PM
I've been to the Addison Dave & Busters more times than I've been to the Cell

Do you actually want to admit that in public? :D:

Brian26
11-03-2007, 12:05 AM
I lived there way back when. and worked for them to get into the town.
I woulda had a job in PR dept had they got the new prk.
Too bad, irt woulda been great.

"The Good Guys Wear Black" may have become "The Rev wears Prada".:o:

ChiSoxFan35
11-03-2007, 01:05 AM
Most of the people in this thread who hated it or wouldn't go to as many games probably live in the city.

It's a two way street, I'd go from a max of about 10 games (if that, depends on the year and circumstances) to a season ticket holder

StillMissOzzie
11-03-2007, 01:48 AM
I live in Lombard, so I'd imagine going to a lot of games.:D:

Me too! I'd be going to a lot more games, but I would probably have the whole row to myself.

SMO
:gulp:

Red Barchetta
11-03-2007, 10:42 AM
If that happened, I think the fan base would have shifted and the Tribune Marketing Machine would definitely have constructed an "us" (Chicago fans) vs. "them" (Suburbs) ticket campaign. I think we would have suffered the same identity crisis the Angels went through in terms of changing from "California" to "Aneheim" to "Los Angeles Angels of Aneheim". I remember when the Bears threatened to move, Daly warned that he would to refuse their use of "Chicago" in their name. However, that could have just been a negotiating ploy, plus I don't think he liked McCaskey very much. :D:

Depending on how well the suburban market accepted the SOX and how well they were able to develop the area immediately surrounding the ballpark would probably have determined their fate. I think for every season ticket holder that would have been lost, a new one would have been gained.

Either way, I'm happy they stayed in Chicago because the city offers more to do before/after the game, especially for fans who don't live in the city. What fun would it be going from one suburb to another suburb to see a game and eat at another Olive Garden?! :tongue:

Fenway
11-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Most of the people in this thread who hated it or wouldn't go to as many games probably live in the city.

It's a two way street, I'd go from a max of about 10 games (if that, depends on the year and circumstances) to a season ticket holder

Fans in the city without a car would have been lost. I used the RTA trip planner from my old address on the northside and it was 2 HOURS via CTA and METRA.

ws05champs
11-03-2007, 02:28 PM
I remember hating the idea. Nothing against Addison at all. It's just that Chicago teams have always been able to host and play their games within the city limits, true to the identity of "Chicago" being represented.

What! You don't like the thought of "The Chicago White Sox of Addison?" How about "The Chicago White Sox of DuPage County, Illinois?"

PaleHoseGeorge
11-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Living in Elmhurst it takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to get to the Cell. If they moved to Addison it would probably take me 25 - 40 minutes to get there considering the traffic. I would save a whopping 20 minutes - big deal.

The only way it would take 40 minutes to go from Elmhurst to Addison is if you did it on foot.
:?:

And if you're getting into the city to see a 7:11 start time in as little as 45 minutes from Elmhurst, you clearly are riding on the shoulder and breaking all sorts of traffic laws. IDOT routinely reports 45+ minutes rush hour travel times just between Mannheim and the Circle interchange.
:o:

PaleHoseGeorge
11-03-2007, 03:45 PM
If that happened, I think the fan base would have shifted and the Tribune Marketing Machine would definitely have constructed an "us" (Chicago fans) vs. "them" (Suburbs) ticket campaign. I think we would have suffered the same identity crisis the Angels went through in terms of changing from "California" to "Aneheim" to "Los Angeles Angels of Aneheim". I remember when the Bears threatened to move, Daly warned that he would to refuse their use of "Chicago" in their name. However, that could have just been a negotiating ploy, plus I don't think he liked McCaskey very much. :D:

Depending on how well the suburban market accepted the SOX and how well they were able to develop the area immediately surrounding the ballpark would probably have determined their fate. I think for every season ticket holder that would have been lost, a new one would have been gained.

Either way, I'm happy they stayed in Chicago because the city offers more to do before/after the game, especially for fans who don't live in the city. What fun would it be going from one suburb to another suburb to see a game and eat at another Olive Garden?! :tongue:

I completely agree. I would only add that the Sox will never win the City "turf war" as long as the Cubs play inside the Urinal shrine to baseball. The Sox will ALWAYS lose in the comparison simply for the tourist factor alone.

Suburban Chicago is presently supporting not less than 5 different minor league teams and it's simply ridiculous to assert these ballclubs aren't thriving precisely because there are not one but two MLB teams fighting over the same group of fans with ballparks located less than 1 mile from from a 22,000 square-mile lake containing nothing but fish, who you might know never buy tickets.
:cool:

Max Power
11-03-2007, 05:34 PM
I was 7 when the move to Addison was proposed. I was still forming my sports identity at the time and if the Sox had moved I guarantee I would have become a Cubs fan. There's no way my family would have gone from Evanston to Addison for any games.

Hitmen77
11-03-2007, 08:18 PM
Most of the people in this thread who hated it or wouldn't go to as many games probably live in the city.

It's a two way street, I'd go from a max of about 10 games (if that, depends on the year and circumstances) to a season ticket holder

But I don't think it would be an even swap. The Cubs could lay claim to all of the city (no more North Side vs. South Side). But, I don't think being in Addison would give the Sox all suburban areas. Addison is a bit of a hike from current Sox hot spots like Tinley Park and other S and SW suburbs. Plus I doubt long time Cub strongholds in the N and NW suburbs would change allegiance.

C-Dawg
11-04-2007, 08:48 AM
From where I live, it'd be a cakewalk to get there. All residential side streets until reaching Swift Road.

Didn't the Tribune recently run a picture of an architectural model of the proposed new stadium? It might have been as recently as the lull between the ALCS and the WS in 2005, if I remember right. It was hideous! Close your eyes, breathe deep, and imagine the Trop Dome in suburban Chicago!

PaleHoseGeorge
11-04-2007, 09:33 AM
Didn't the Tribune recently run a picture of an architectural model of the proposed new stadium? It might have been as recently as the lull between the ALCS and the WS in 2005, if I remember right. It was hideous! Close your eyes, breathe deep, and imagine the Trop Dome in suburban Chicago!

New Comiskey Park is nothing but a modified version of the ballpark HOK was commissioned to design for Addison. It's virtually the same design with these minor modifications:
The ramps were changed from circular to switchback, but in both designs they are located outside the ballpark's facade.
HOK added the enormous arched windows to the facade to make the new park more reminiscent of Old Comiskey. I think I'm safe in saying they failed miserably.
A bridge across 35th Street was added to accommodate the switchback ramps north of the ballpark. This was 100 percent due to the fact that the ballpark was designed to fit in the middle of a giant suburban parking lot, not the Chicago street grid.It's also noteworthy that the City of Chicago agreed to obliterate Shields Avenue south of 35th because the Addison-designed ballpark wouldn't have fit the location otherwise. You can see this for yourself following the Memories of Old Comiskey Park (http://flyingsock.com/OldComiskey/Progress.htm) portion of WSI.

The Addison ballpark that became New Comiskey was based on Royals Stadium (now Kauffman Stadium) in Kansas City, back in the 80's regarded as the absolute best of the newer baseball-only ballparks. Today the design doesn't seem very fashionable but just wait until these 90's-vintage adult theme parks get 20 years under their belt. You ain't seen UGLY yet.

DoItForDanPasqua
11-04-2007, 10:31 AM
The team would have been far removed from their traditional fan base and for fans in the city proper they might as well be in St Petersburg.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Lake+St+%26+Swift+Rd,+DuPage,+Illinois,+United+S tates&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.252269,62.753906&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,41.953220,-88.041690&ll=41.974296,-88.041687&spn=0.945405,1.96106&z=9&om=1



I'd go to as many games in St. Pete as I would in Addison.

Brian26
11-04-2007, 10:39 AM
Suburban Chicago is presently supporting not less than 5 different minor league teams and it's simply ridiculous to assert these ballclubs aren't thriving precisely because there are not one but two MLB teams fighting over the same group of fans with ballparks located less than 1 mile from from a 22,000 square-mile lake containing nothing but fish, who you might know never buy tickets.
:cool:

Yet, those two MLB ballparks you mention are essentially located in the most logical place for each team's fanbase, which is a centralized location at the hub of all public transportation and essentially a downtown destination point for suburbanites who attend. There are far less people alienated by the current location than fans who would be if either team moved to an outer rim suburb.

C-Dawg
11-04-2007, 06:24 PM
New Comiskey Park is nothing but a modified version of the ballpark HOK was commissioned to design for Addison.

Hmmm, I must be confusing it with a picture of some other stadium (maybe it really was a pic of the Trop?). I'll have to see if I saved the article.

ws05champs
11-04-2007, 10:15 PM
The only way it would take 40 minutes to go from Elmhurst to Addison is if you did it on foot.
:?:

And if you're getting into the city to see a 7:11 start time in as little as 45 minutes from Elmhurst, you clearly are riding on the shoulder and breaking all sorts of traffic laws. IDOT routinely reports 45+ minutes rush hour travel times just between Mannheim and the Circle interchange.
:o:

40 minutes to Addison would be the worst case from my front door at the far southern tip of Elmhurst to the proposed stadium entrance (area around Dave and Busters) during rush hour with traffic backed up. You are right - walking could be faster.

As far as getting to the Cell I learned long ago not to get on the Eisenhower before Harlem (I have developed a secret way) and that 45 minutes (not 40) would be a day game. One hour for a 7:11 start is more normal. And yes I do drive it like I stole it.:redneck

LongLiveFisk
11-04-2007, 10:23 PM
(no more North Side vs. South Side)

I never liked the Addison idea for this reason. To me, the Sox are and always will be the city's South Side team. I'm so glad this move never happened.

hsnterprize
11-05-2007, 01:30 AM
New Comiskey Park is nothing but a modified version of the ballpark HOK was commissioned to design for Addison. It's virtually the same design with these minor modifications:
The ramps were changed from circular to switchback, but in both designs they are located outside the ballpark's facade.
HOK added the enormous arched windows to the facade to make the new park more reminiscent of Old Comiskey. I think I'm safe in saying they failed miserably.
A bridge across 35th Street was added to accommodate the switchback ramps north of the ballpark. This was 100 percent due to the fact that the ballpark was designed to fit in the middle of a giant suburban parking lot, not the Chicago street grid.It's also noteworthy that the City of Chicago agreed to obliterate Shields Avenue south of 35th because the Addison-designed ballpark wouldn't have fit the location otherwise. You can see this for yourself following the Memories of Old Comiskey Park (http://flyingsock.com/OldComiskey/Progress.htm) portion of WSI.

The Addison ballpark that became New Comiskey was based on Royals Stadium (now Kauffman Stadium) in Kansas City, back in the 80's regarded as the absolute best of the newer baseball-only ballparks. Today the design doesn't seem very fashionable but just wait until these 90's-vintage adult theme parks get 20 years under their belt. You ain't seen UGLY yet.

I've been telling people in other baseball-related threads that the "retro cookie cutter" trend of the 90's is pretty much dead with the designs of new places in Cincinnati, San Diego, Washington DC, Oakland, and Minneapolis. Both New York ballparks are being more reminiscent of their team's respective history, although there are more people against the design of New Yankee Stadium than Citi Field (Mets' new home).

My point being...after Oriole Park opened, every other new major and minor league ballpark tried to be a carbon copy of it. Nothing's original any more, and a lot of folks are noticing the "cookie cutterness" of designs...the reb brick and green seat motif is fading fast, and U.S. Cellular Field will be celebrated years from now for standing out in a sea of "retro" places.

Railsplitter
11-05-2007, 07:44 AM
To me, the Jake and The Ballpark at Arlington look like they belong on movie studio back lots.

MiamiSpartan
11-06-2007, 08:52 PM
I would be going to a lot more games when I was younger thats for sure. But if they did build it out there, it would be horrible traffice over there if there were any big tournaments at Medinah the same time a game was going on.

The funny thing about the traffic is that it got developed with stuff that brings traffic to the area 352 days a year....