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Fenway
10-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Murray Chass of the New York Times said on WFAN that both the Yankees and Selig think there maybe tampering involved with the ARod opt out. The fact that Boras refused to let the Yankees make an offer concerns both NYY and MLB. Chass says MLB thinks Boras pulled the same stunt last year with J.D. Drew but the Dodgers did not protest but NYY will challenge ARod.

Trav
10-30-2007, 08:21 PM
The only reason MLB is caring at all about this is because they are pissed about Rodriguez and Co. coming out with him leaving New York during the World Series.

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 08:23 PM
I heard his contract with the Angels is dated 10/27/2007.

A. Cavatica
10-30-2007, 08:25 PM
What a pathetic bunch of whiners the Yankees turned into after only eight straight playoff appearances.

Fenway
10-30-2007, 08:28 PM
The only reason MLB is caring at all about this is because they are pissed about Rodriguez and Co. coming out with him leaving New York during the World Series.

DuPuy read the riot act to Boras and you know that was really Bud talking.

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 08:29 PM
When you have a weak leader (Bud) who does not know how to lead and enforce, people take advantage of it.

Daver
10-30-2007, 08:32 PM
When you have a weak leader (Bud) who does not know how to lead and enforce, people take advantage of it.

Weak?

You are seriously kidding right?

dickallen15
10-30-2007, 08:36 PM
I wonder if the Yankees know ARod has been tampered with because they themselves have tampered.

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 08:36 PM
Weak?

You are seriously kidding right?

You think Bud Selig is a good leader of the sport of baseball?

EDIT: Maybe you thought I meant that I was saying he has no power. That's not how I was using the word weak. I was using it to basically mean he is an awful leader who does not have any integrity.

fquaye149
10-30-2007, 08:40 PM
Murray Chass of the New York Times said on WFAN that both the Yankees and Selig think there maybe tampering involved with the ARod opt out. The fact that Boras refused to let the Yankees make an offer concerns both NYY and MLB. Chass says MLB thinks Boras pulled the same stunt last year with J.D. Drew but the Dodgers did not protest but NYY will challenge ARod.

Can't NY figure out:

A-Rod was treated like **** by the media, fans, and management in NY

A-Rod played out of position in NY

Tampering or not, A-Rod and Boras would have known that they can fetch 30 mil on the open market.

I just don't see where the tampering is here. As if everyone and their mother want to play for the Yankees:rolleyes:

Fenway
10-30-2007, 08:42 PM
NYY had 8 years at $231 M on the table. Logic tells me Boras KNOWS he has a better deal in place. That is tampering period.

Paulwny
10-30-2007, 08:42 PM
I wonder if the Yankees know ARod has been tampered with because they themselves have tampered.

You got it

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE6D7113DF932A35753C1A9649582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Daver
10-30-2007, 08:43 PM
You think Bud Selig is a good leader of the sport of baseball?


I did not say that, but to call him weak is foolish.

Under his stint as commissioner he has abolished the league presidents, and brought the power of those two positions to his desk, he has disbanded the umpires union and replaced it with a union that answers directly to his office, and he has played the court of public opinion into the toughest drug testing penalties in professional sports. No one commissioner has ever had the power of office that Bud Selig has now.

It's a damn shame he is a misguided fool that has a slanted perspective of the game as a whole.

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 08:44 PM
I did not say that, but to call him weak is foolish.

Under his stint as commissioner he has abolished the league presidents, and brought the power of those two positions to his desk, he has disbanded the umpires union and replaced it with a union that answers directly to his office, and he has played the court of public opinion into the toughest drug testing penalties in professional sports. No one commissioner has ever had the power of office that Bud Selig has now.

It's a damn shame he is a misguided fool that has a slanted perspective of the game as a whole.

See my edit. We basically agree. I was using weak in a different sense and probably misusing it.

CLR01
10-30-2007, 09:15 PM
NYY had 8 years at $231 M on the table. Logic tells me Boras KNOWS he has a better deal in place. That is tampering period.

Or maybe he just wanted out of New York.

No, sorry, that's impossible, everyone wants to be in New York or Boston.

MrRoboto83
10-30-2007, 09:17 PM
Boras doing something wrong? This guy is scum.

Steelrod
10-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Makes sense. He currently had the highest 3 year contract in baseball history, and opts free agency without even talking to the team. Sounds to me that his agent is in possession of some ill gotten information.
I would LOVE to see a team prohibited from signing him!

Fenway
10-30-2007, 10:12 PM
We will get a clue in the next week. If Boston does not lock up Mike Lowell then we will know if they are in the ARod hunt. Fans are pleading Boston to screw ARod and keep Lowell but I think ownership wants him. They dumped many popular players from 2004 and they will do it again.

doublem23
10-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Or maybe he just wanted out of New York.

No, sorry, that's impossible, everyone wants to be in New York or Boston.

Of course, who wouldn't want to work for that egomaniac Steinbrenner kid? He sure seems like he'd be understanding after an 0-4 game.

Frontman
10-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Up until the announcement this past Sunday, I was....curious? To see if KW would go after A-rod. But considering how Boras handled this, I want the White Sox to have nothing to do with A-rod.

We don't need that type of BS on the Southside.

getonbckthr
10-30-2007, 10:30 PM
Boras doing something wrong? This guy is scum.
I love how the guy is scum for doing his job. His responsibilty and loyalty is to the player he represents not the team he plays for.

DumpJerry
10-31-2007, 12:03 AM
NYY had 8 years at $231 M on the table. Logic tells me Boras KNOWS he has a better deal in place. That is tampering period.
Sorry, but your logic had holes. Borass probaby looked at all 29 teams not named "New York Yankees" analyzed what their needs were and how much $$$ they were capable of putting on the table and figured some (Dodgers? Angels? Cubs? Boston?) had enough to get a larger contract. Having worked with (or over) the GMs, he knows how they think and what the chances were of him getting a deal from which GMs which met his goals.

Maybe the Dodgers are serious about trading Furcal. Then they would need a Shortstop. I'm sure all of this factors into Borass' calculus.

Sure, it's a gamble that he can get ARod a larger contract than what the Yanks reportedly had on the table, but a worthwhile gamble.

FedEx227
10-31-2007, 12:32 AM
I agree Dump.

How is it tampering? Of course Boras knows he can get a better deal, we all knew that go back to 3-4 weeks ago and people were calling him to probably get 250-300 million. Did we all have insider information?

ChiSoxFan35
10-31-2007, 01:12 AM
A lot of people bash Selig but it reminds me of people who second guess GMs or management. No way he's goiong to be perfect, but a lot of people have solutions after the fact. Like the All Star Game. Or steroids. I don't see what better you can do right now with no reliable HGH test. I think he's handled it quite well considering him and his sport only get the focus in this issue, and every other sport is just as guilty (if not guiltier) of the performance enhancing usage and impact it has on the respective game, but no one cares when it's the NFL or one of their top talents.

I think both Boras and ARod are classless, and their arguments they'll be making for new record breaking contracts will be idiotic. I blame Fox on it too, but It's too bad that when people look back to their recording of the decisive game for the Red Sox, they'll have to hear mindless discussion on Arod in the last innings

AJ Hellraiser
10-31-2007, 01:13 AM
I did not say that, but to call him weak is foolish.

Under his stint as commissioner he has abolished the league presidents, and brought the power of those two positions to his desk, he has disbanded the umpires union and replaced it with a union that answers directly to his office, and he has played the court of public opinion into the toughest drug testing penalties in professional sports. No one commissioner has ever had the power of office that Bud Selig has now.

It's a damn shame he is a misguided fool that has a slanted perspective of the game as a whole.

You are right about all this... at the same time... he is the commissioner that will forever be linked to the steroid era...

And mark my word... when all the dust settles... and it could take 10 years until we know everyone that used... 50-75% of baseball was using and a whole generation will be tainted....

When that much of the sport is abusing steroids, higher-ups know.. GM's, owners, etc. You can bet that Selig knew all along and did nothing about it... that in my book is a bad commissioner....

captainclutch24
10-31-2007, 02:53 AM
Daver the NFL has the toughest drug testing in all of professional sports. How many season suspensions have you heard of in baseball as a result of failed tests? 0

NFL Darrel Russel, Ricky Williams are starts.

The NFL goes 0, 4 games and year for non steroids 4 game automatic for steroids, mlb is 25,100 then year for three offenses of roids. I have yet to see a drug related suspension for non steroids in baseball.

itsnotrequired
10-31-2007, 07:33 AM
Daver the NFL has the toughest drug testing in all of professional sports. How many season suspensions have you heard of in baseball as a result of failed tests? 0

NFL Darrel Russel, Ricky Williams are starts.

The NFL goes 0, 4 games and year for non steroids 4 game automatic for steroids, mlb is 25,100 then year for three offenses of roids. I have yet to see a drug related suspension for non steroids in baseball.

Minor-leaugers get busted for "drugs of abuse" often. 8 players last year alone were busted, at 50 games each. That's over a third of a season for a first offense. Cedrick Brooks is in the minors now but technically got his while playing on the Rockies. His suspension will start when he signs with another Major team. Same deal with Thomas King.

Neifi Perez was busted for stimulants (amphetamines), not steroids. Stimulants get you 25 games, then 50 but steroids (performance enhancing drugs) and drugs of abuse will get a player 50 for the first offense. Refusing to take the test gets you 50 games as well.

Oblong
10-31-2007, 08:20 AM
ARod doesn't necessarily have to make more thanhe's making now for a new deal to be better. He's not opting out to improve the next 3 years, he's opting out to use his current level of play to pay for years 4-7. In 3 years he won't be as valuable of a FA as he is today. Besides, maybe he just wanted to leave NY and figured he'd get something like he has now and that was it. Just because he supposedly didn't want to accept the Yankees current offer doesn't mean it's tampering. NY sure feel like they are entitled to everything their way.

Frontman
10-31-2007, 09:09 AM
Oh I fully agree A-rod had to leave New York. Those fans get nuts and blame him for everything from higher taxes to the wind blowing out.

But how Boras handled this? I'd be a happy, happy man if Crede kicked him to the curb as his agent.

itsnotrequired
10-31-2007, 09:12 AM
Oh I fully agree A-rod had to leave New York. Those fans get nuts and blame him for everything from higher taxes to the wind blowing out.

But how Boras handled this? I'd be a happy, happy man if Crede kicked him to the curb as his agent.

Crede has publicly stated that Boras works for him, not the other way around. If it becomes a problem, he said he would seek other representation.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 09:22 AM
I am beginning to think that the Dodgers are now in the hunt for A-Rod. They have empty seats to sell, are in a TV war with Anaheim and just offered Joe Torre the moon.

I can not see A-Rod coming to Boston as much as ownership wants him. The fanbase has made it clear we want NO PART of him...online polls are running 90-10 to re-sign Lowell instead of getting A-Rod. Fans at the parade made that clear as well.

soxfanatlanta
10-31-2007, 09:26 AM
The fanbase has made it clear we want NO PART of him...online polls are running 90-10 to re-sign Lowell instead of getting A-Rod. Fans at the parade made that clear as well.

Puh-leaze. This is the same fanbase that forgives Manny year after year for his antics. The boos would cease instantly upon ARod's first shot over the green monster.

The Dodgers angle intrigues me.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 09:30 AM
Puh-leaze. This is the same fanbase that forgives Manny year after year for his antics. The boos would cease instantly upon ARod's first shot over the green monster.

The Dodgers angle intrigues me.

Manny has now won 2 rings and been in 4 World Series. How many of either does A-Rod have?

http://img.radio.cz/pictures/grafik/nulax.jpg

A-Rod not being traded to Boston after 2003 was a blessing for both the Red Sox AND White Sox. If that deal had happened chances are both the Red Sox and White Sox would still be at 1918 and 1917 today.

palehozenychicty
10-31-2007, 09:57 AM
Puh-leaze. This is the same fanbase that forgives Manny year after year for his antics. The boos would cease instantly upon ARod's first shot over the green monster.

The Dodgers angle intrigues me.


He would've been a perfect fit if Torre wasn't going to manage them. That being said, I don't think it'll happen now. The Angels or Giants seem the most likely destinations.

soxfanatlanta
10-31-2007, 09:57 AM
Manny has now won 2 rings and been in 4 World Series. How many of either does A-Rod have?

So Manny single handedly won the WS both years? Did it all by himself ala Bugs Bunny? You are wiser than that, Fenway.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 10:08 AM
So Manny single handedly won the WS both years? Did it all by himself ala Bugs Bunny? You are wiser than that, Fenway.

Series MVP in 2004

Of course he didn't do it by himself but Boston would not have won either WITHOUT him.

Another reason Boston fans don't want A-Rod. Boras is looking at 10 years ( and A-Rod is 32 ) From ages 33-37 you can expect him to produce at near the same numbers as now but after that it is a crapshoot.

That said A-Rod playing 81 games at Fenway would be devastating...Bonds single season mark would fall.

Of course the idea of A-Rod against National League pitching makes my head explode.

soxfanatlanta
10-31-2007, 10:14 AM
That said A-Rod playing 81 games at Fenway would be devastating...Bonds single season mark would fall.

You cannot tell me that with ARod's production with all else equal in 2008, the BoSox would not be favored to win the WS, Stanley Cup, and the Premier League. Imagine the possibilities and then wipe the drool from your keyboard :tongue:

spawn
10-31-2007, 10:21 AM
You cannot tell me that with ARod's production with all else equal in 2008, the BoSox would not be favored to win the WS, Stanley Cup, and the Premier League. Imagine the possibilities and then wipe the drool from your keyboard :tongue:
Don't forget the Super Bowl. Yet another weapon for Tom Brady to throw to. :D:

Red Barchetta
10-31-2007, 10:23 AM
NYY had 8 years at $231 M on the table. Logic tells me Boras KNOWS he has a better deal in place. That is tampering period.

After the season A-Rod had, we all know he can get a better deal so I'm not sure how much tampering went on.

I agree that the timing was piss-poor to announce this during the WS, however I agree with the earlier post that this isn't just about money as the Yankees have enough to spend. A-Rod took the high road most of the time with the NY media, however I don't think he liked playing there and took his first opportunity to leave. Plus, I don't expect him and Derek Jeter to be sharing a vacation home any time soon.

The money is given, considering that he is arguably the best player in baseball and will immediately make a financial marketing impact to any team he joins.

The question is how important is winning a WS to A-Rod? If he joins a third tier city team; i.e. Texas, KC, etc., he is basically the franchise with little room for improvement. Texas tried this once and failed. If he joins another tier one city team; i.e. Chicago (Cubs?) or LA/Aneheim, he maintains the big city marketing options for endorsements, etc., however gets out of the furnace called New York.

Similar to Michael Jordan, A-Rod has a healthy ego. He wants to be "the man" and have the fan love going on. Neither or which he achieved in New York.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 10:31 AM
Sorry, but your logic had holes. Borass probaby looked at all 29 teams not named "New York Yankees" analyzed what their needs were and how much $$$ they were capable of putting on the table and figured some (Dodgers? Angels? Cubs? Boston?) had enough to get a larger contract. Having worked with (or over) the GMs, he knows how they think and what the chances were of him getting a deal from which GMs which met his goals.

Maybe the Dodgers are serious about trading Furcal. Then they would need a Shortstop. I'm sure all of this factors into Borass' calculus.

Sure, it's a gamble that he can get ARod a larger contract than what the Yanks reportedly had on the table, but a worthwhile gamble.

Granted A-Rod may just want out of New York.

Look everybody in baseball knows the Red Sox tipped their hand to Boras over J.D. Drew. The Dodgers didn't fight it because they were off the hook for $33 million. Some feel Boston was forced to sign Drew to get Dice-K.

Still Boras should have gone through the motions and at least let the Yankees ask "What do you WANT?"

Funny thing is as much as Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner say they are done with A-Rod you know that if Boras has a deal with Boston ready to go, Scott will call Cashman and say "last chance to stop it"

and the Yankees just might cave in

wdelaney72
10-31-2007, 11:07 AM
If Torre goes to LA to manage, I'm not so sure Rodriguez will follow.

Let's not forget 2 years ago how Joe Torre and the rest of the Yankees absolutely let Rodriguez get absolutely torched by the media. They don't allow that to happen to Jeter, or any one of their precious "guys". It's been very clear that Rodriguez was not on Torre's short list of favorites. There are many different ways Torre and the Yankees could have pressured the media to lay off of Rodriguez and they let him fry out there.

I think this is very simple:
1) Rodriguez wanted out of NY... at this point I would have, too.
2) Rodriguez will get more money guaranteed be declaring free agency. The Yanks can say they were "prepared" to offer $230 millino contract extension, but we'll never know if they really would have or did. It's not over yet. Fenway is right, if Boston comes up with an serious offer, the Yanks might reconsider as they have no other adequate option at 3B. Really, Boston could sign Lowell and Rodriguez and leave the Yanks with squat. Schilling's money is gone. Matt Clement's money has got to be close to gone and they're finally approaching the end of Manny's contract.

I still think that San Francisco will be the big suitor. The Barroid circus act is history and this will be their new attendance draw... they'll have plenty of money to offer him.

thedudeabides
10-31-2007, 12:36 PM
Manny has now won 2 rings and been in 4 World Series. How many of either does A-Rod have?

Boy Fens, you are just throwing this argument out to prove every Red Sox player is the best these days. :rolleyes:

I hope your just coming off the tail end of a three day bender and relax the Red Sox love a little bit. I believe this is still a White Sox board.

thepaulbowski
10-31-2007, 12:51 PM
Or maybe he just wanted out of New York.

No, sorry, that's impossible, everyone wants to be in New York or Boston.

Boras wouldn't let him leave NY unless he thinks he will get more money elsewhere. Boras had Beltran sign with the Mets even though the money would be about the same he was offered in Houston after taking into account taxes and things like that. With Boras it is all about the money, period. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but that is what it is.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Boy Fens, you are just throwing this argument out to prove every Red Sox player is the best these days. :rolleyes:

I hope your just coming off the tail end of a three day bender and relax the Red Sox love a little bit. I believe this is still a White Sox board.

OK I am a little hungover :gulp:

But it doesn't change the fact that Boston 4 years after lusting for A-Rod has now won the title twice.

Now as far as A-Rod coming to Boston....Steve Buckley in the Herald takes a hard look at the pros and cons


In the hearts of Red Sox fans, A-Rod is the most hated opposing player since the days of Reggie Jackson. Deep down, though, the masses had grudging respect for Jackson for no other reason than they recognize the goods when they see it. And Jackson, as is now the case with A-Rod, was an overbearing clubhouse presence who could turn off teammates.

But Alex Rodriguez is one of the greatest players in baseball history, a certain first-ballot Hall of Famer who, at 32, surely has many stupendous seasons ahead of him. Give Rodriguez an extended run at the Fenway Theater and its frightening to imagine the numbers hed put up.

But Alex Rodriguez is one of the greatest players in baseball history, a certain first-ballot Hall of Famer who, at 32, surely has many stupendous seasons ahead of him. Give Rodriguez an extended run at the Fenway Theater and its frightening to imagine the numbers hed put up.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1041574

Fenway
10-31-2007, 01:23 PM
The LA Times Angels beat writer looks at A-Rod and says NO

A-Rod salary, not ego, bad fit (http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/angels/la-sp-angels31oct31,0,5258114.story?coll=la-home-center)

russ99
10-31-2007, 01:25 PM
Why would Bud really care either way?

I think this is a masterful job by the Yankees to turn Boras' scheming against himself. It's well known that he loves to make up offers, create feigned player interest in specific teams and spread false rumors to force teams to bid against each other and drive the price up for his marquee clients. (See Astros/Carlos Beltran)

With the announcement that the Yankees have no interest in asking him back upon the opt-out, they removed themselves (and the largest potential salary) from this sleazy practice by Boras, and leave the door open for a surprise bid when the asking price is fairly set and bidding gets down to the last 2-3 teams.

If all teams do this to his clients (like the Braves also just did with Andruw Jones) then Boras loses a valuable weapon in his Free Agency sleaze-fest. I just hope he doesn't claim collusion.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 01:39 PM
Why would Bud really care either way?



Trust me on this....Selig was heard screaming in the Coors Field press box on Sunday night.

Now Boras says Alex can not understand why the Yankees will not talk to him.


"Intellectually, Alex is tying to understand the difference between his free agency and that of Mariano and Posada," Boras said by phone yesterday. "Alex Rodriguez has never said he does not want to be a Yankee. Filing for free agency doesn't mean that. Because Rivera and Posada are free agents doesn't mean they don't want to be Yankees."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10302007/sports/yankees/boras_opts_to_complain_agent__.htm

Hey earth to Scott Boras......

There is a little matter of the Yankees no longer having Texas paying 1/3rd of A-Rod's contract for starters. 20 milluion plus dollars is nothing to sneeze at.

Boras from all evidence decided to make the announcement during Game 4. He left a voicemail to Brian Cashman asking him to call back right away....Cashman was asleep it turns out and Boras then sent him a text 8 minutes later saying he was opting out


He stays asleep until his wife tells him he better do something about his cell phone, because it won't stop chirping.
Cashman begins to go through his messages. Most are from sportswriters, asking him for a reaction to Alex Rodriguez picking this night, the last of the World Series, to opt out of his Yankee contract and become a free agent.
Finally he comes to a message from Scott Boras, A-Rod's agent, telling Cashman something he had already told the whole world.

"I had to go through 15 messages," Cashman said, "before I got to Scott's."


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/31/2007-10-31_brian_cashman_is_the_man_taming_the_bron.html

Oblong
10-31-2007, 02:32 PM
Cashman was asleep? Not sure I believe that. Granted he probably doesn't care about the WS since his team isn't in it but is still a major league GM and I'd think they are still watching the games.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 02:41 PM
Cashman was asleep? Not sure I believe that. Granted he probably doesn't care about the WS since his team isn't in it but is still a major league GM and I'd think they are still watching the games.

Falling asleep after reading to your son???? I can believe it.

Plus he was looking at an early flight to Tampa in the morning.

Daver
10-31-2007, 06:05 PM
When that much of the sport is abusing steroids, higher-ups know.. GM's, owners, etc. You can bet that Selig knew all along and did nothing about it... that in my book is a bad commissioner....

Then every commissioner since the late fifties is a bad one, because drugs have been in baseball since then. I never said Bud was a good commissioner, just the most powerful one to ever hold the position.

Lance Alworth
10-31-2007, 06:53 PM
"Tampering" makes no sense in this context, unless Boras was actually shopping A-Rod to other teams.

Anyway, it's always satisfying to see the Yankees crying "unfair." It's also heartening to see "Red Sox Region" crying about the disclosure during Game 4.

(Sorry Fenway, but "Red Sox Region" is becoming almost annoying a fan base as the Cubs'. ("Red Sox Nation" is a lot of nonsense. That cognomen was obviously stolen from the Raiders, who actually have (read: had) a true national fan base. "Red Sox Nation" basically consists of New Englanders, and New Englanders who've moved to nicer climates.)