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View Full Version : Bora$$ and the White Sox


thomas35forever
10-30-2007, 05:56 PM
Inspired by the most recent episode of Soxcast, I've decided to talk about Bora$$' relationship with the White Sox. We all know A-Rod will not be in a White Sox uniform next year, but is Crede gone this offseason? I know the Sox don't have a good relationship with his agent, so are we about to lose him? There has always been this threat as long as Bora$$ has been Crede's agent.

veeter
10-30-2007, 06:14 PM
I think if Crede leaves the Sox, it'll be because he's dealt. I think they could work out a contract with him/ Borass because Joe would influence the deal more than some other clients. Just my opinion.

SoxandtheCityTee
10-30-2007, 10:00 PM
Don't want to start another Scott Boras thread so I will mention here that there is a pretty extensive profile of him in this week's New Yorker magazine (10/29 issue). Crede is mentioned only to say that he's a client and was on the DL most of the year.

Edit: It's called "The Extortionist" and the author, Ben McGrath, seems to have had a lot of access. I liked this observation [article is 11 pages long so this is a tiny part]:

"Boras has said that he operates 'in the arena of truth,' and, though he didn't mean it
as a form of self-criticism, the spacious confines of the metaphor seem apt. He has
a way of bending and extending his facts into the outer reaches of plausibility."

DumpJerry
10-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Ok. Let's get some perspective here. It's not like ARod would get $1,000,000 next year if he had a different agent. ARod could have Bozo the Clown as his agent and get the largest contract ever. He's earned it.

The Sox do not, I repeat, do not, have an absolute policy against negotiating with Borass. Like many other teams, they would rather not deal with the guy. I think what this means is that if a Borass client is a FA and there is a comparable FA on the market, the Sox will make a play for the other guy. the Sox have signed Borass clients in the past and will do so in the future. They just won't get involved in the circus Borass orchestrates for his top flight clients like ARod which is fine with me. If the Sox got wrapped in a long term negotiation over ARod, they cannot set a budget which will allow them to talk to other FAs until ARod is (finally) signed or not signed. By then, it may be too late to get other FAs who are needed here.

ChiSoxFan35
10-31-2007, 12:04 AM
Crede is in a lot of people's mouths in NY lately, especially on sports radio.

Earlier today, they even called Crede "A Yankee type of player" on Mike and the Mad Dog.

veeter
10-31-2007, 07:39 AM
Crede is in a lot of people's mouths in NY lately, especially on sports radio.

Earlier today, they even called Crede "A Yankee type of player" on Mike and the Mad Dog.I love when arrogant teams can't have what they want.

SBSoxFan
10-31-2007, 07:44 AM
Crede is in a lot of people's mouths in NY lately, especially on sports radio.

Earlier today, they even called Crede "A Yankee type of player" on Mike and the Mad Dog.

To me, Crede seems the antithesis of "A Yankee type of player" in that he wouldn't do well under the scrutiny. I love Joe, but if they want him badly enough to take his questionable back, his inconsistent bat, and to give the Sox a major piece, I'd personally get Joe some earplugs and wish him well.

southside rocks
10-31-2007, 08:51 AM
The Sox do not, I repeat, do not, have an absolute policy against negotiating with Borass.

You are correct. Scott Boras represents John Danks, and that didn't stop JR/KW from going after Danks, whom they had been impressed with and put on their 'would like to have' list.

If the White Sox management had a policy of "no Boras, no player" then John Danks would not be in a Sox uniform, nor would Joe Crede.

KW does refuse to deal directly with Boras, but there are others in the organization that handle that detail when necessary. The Sox prefer not to have Boras players on their roster, but they don't cut off their nose to spite their face over it.

The New Yorker article is long, but well worth reading. I found this bit interesting, about salary arbitration cases handled by Boras:

Such cases were formerly a strong suit of the Boras Corporation and are now, increasingly, a weakness—a casualty, perhaps, of overreaching. Boras has lost twelve of his last fifteen cases, thanks in part to his aggressively high filings, and also to combative efforts on the part of Major League Baseball, which arms individual teams with neatly compiled records of all the arguments that Boras has used in the past, many of which are contradictory. (Another side effect of his aggressiveness is that teams often choose to settle rather than risk the high cost of such an arbitration defeat.)


Lost 12 of the last 15 arb cases he brought. Maybe Scott Boras is not, as he thinks he is, the emperor of all things baseball.

wilburaga
10-31-2007, 09:56 AM
Have the White Sox ever signed a Boras client to a multiyear deal? I can't recall one

W

Irishsox1
10-31-2007, 10:06 AM
Boras is a product of the system that MLB has set up for itself with the players union. You get profit sharing and salary caps in the MLB and Boras has nothing. Which is why Boras doesn't represent NBA or NFL players.

Here is the link to the Boras New Yorker article:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath?printable=true

DumpJerry
10-31-2007, 10:14 AM
KW does refuse to deal directly with Boras, but there are others in the organization that handle that detail when necessary. The Sox prefer not to have Boras players on their roster, but they don't cut off their nose to spite their face over it.
I've read that is Rick Hahn's job.

The Immigrant
10-31-2007, 10:19 AM
Have the White Sox ever signed a Boras client to a multiyear deal? I can't recall one

W

Can you name a single Boras client that you wish the White Sox had signed to his current free agent deal?

Domeshot17
10-31-2007, 11:54 AM
(1) Get a clue. Kenny won't deal with Boras, thats why we were so screwed if Rick Hahn left. Boras basically owns Kenny

(2) Danks being a Boras client had nothing to do with anything because Danks was a rookie, so we own'd his rights for 6 years (now 5). After those 5 years, if he turns into a great pitcher, year 7 probably isnt in chicago.

(3) I cant think of one boras client we locked up, but I can think of a bunch we either let walk or missed out on

wilburaga
10-31-2007, 01:30 PM
Can you name a single Boras client that you wish the White Sox had signed to his current free agent deal?

You make an excellent point that Boras' clients come overpriced and teams often rue the deals given them. But Detroit has prospered from its relationship with Boras.

My point is simply that the Sox have done a bunch of mutiyear deals over the years, but never to my knowledge have they done one with a Boras client. That's why I'm 95% certain Crede will be gone in 2009.

W

southside rocks
10-31-2007, 01:32 PM
(1) Get a clue.

I do so enjoy the intelligent discussions that take place on this board.

Thanks, I've gotten a clue and I'm gone.

Fenway
10-31-2007, 01:36 PM
Boras is a product of the system that MLB has set up for itself with the players union. You get profit sharing and salary caps in the MLB and Boras has nothing. Which is why Boras doesn't represent NBA or NFL players.

Here is the link to the Boras New Yorker article:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath?printable=true

Deep in the New Yorker article is something that might explain why JR doesn't want to deal with Boras


Staying in business for too long can begin to wear on one’s conscience or nag at one’s pride—the indignity of being a valet. Boras’s earliest rival was an agent named Dennis (Go Go) Gilbert, another former minor leaguer, who got his start selling life insurance, door to door, in Hollywood. (Before he began representing ballplayers like George Brett and Jose Canseco, his clients included Michael Landon, Sally Field, and Rod Stewart.) He once drove a Rolls-Royce with “GOGO19” plates—a reference to his uniform number—but in 1999, after nearly twenty years as an agent, he quit the business, dedicated himself to the charity Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities (R.B.I.), and eventually resurfaced on the other side of the picket line, as a special assistant to Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner of the Chicago White Sox. “You have to understand, some people are in love with the game,” he told me, unapologetic about having switched allegiances. “You’re always going to find the White Sox have treated their players extremely well. We don’t overpay our players.” The White Sox have historically tended to avoid doing business with Scott Boras. Gilbert also pointed out that Joe Crede, a Boras client on Chicago’s roster, spent most of this season on the disabled list.

FarWestChicago
10-31-2007, 08:57 PM
You make an excellent point that Boras' clients come overpriced and teams often rue the deals given them. But Detroit has prospered from its relationship with Boras.They have? They backed into the playoffs last year and laid down for a weak NL team; the only AL team to lay down for a weak NL team in a while. I must have missed their playoff games this year. I guess they were on really late after I went to sleep.

DumpJerry
10-31-2007, 10:31 PM
But Detroit has prospered from its relationship with Boras.

They have? They backed into the playoffs last year and laid down for a weak NL team; the only AL team to lay down for a weak NL team in a while. I must have missed their playoff games this year. I guess they were on really late after I went to sleep.
That's a head scratcher, wil. The Tigers signed extremely risky contracts with Rodriguez and Maggs. Both contracts stated that if the player was not on the DL for a specific amount of time for specific injuries in Year One, the remainder was guaranteed. In Magglio's case, it was his knee injury. No sooner did Magglio sign the contract it was revealed he has a hernia which took him out of action for so many days, there were not enough days available to let the Tigers bail if his bad knee blew up upon his return.

I know that nobdy else was talking to Maggs when he signed with the Tigers, I don't recall is the same was true with IRod. This means the Tigers were Maggs' only hope for playing baseball and the idiot Tigers still acted like there were other teams ready, willing and able to sign Maggs. Darn fools has the leverage and they let Borass run them ragged. Yes, I know Maggs has done quite well since, but hindsight is 20/20 and he was going to be a Tiger anyway.

It is Borass who has prospered from the relationship with the Tigers.

SoxandtheCityTee
10-31-2007, 10:42 PM
But how would the Tigers know for sure whether there were other offers out there for Ordonez, or what they were? The teams cannot talk to teach other about it; they can guess, assume, hope, take chances, but only Boras and his client know if other offers really exist, and what they are. And that's leaving aside Boras's rep for parlaying "phantom" offers. No doubt Dombrowki took a huge risk with Maggs, but I don't think that makes him an idiot.

DumpJerry
10-31-2007, 10:55 PM
But how would the Tigers know for sure whether there were other offers out there for Ordonez, or what they were? The teams cannot talk to teach other about it; they can guess, assume, hope, take chances, but only Boras and his client know if other offers really exist, and what they are. And that's leaving aside Boras's rep for parlaying "phantom" offers. No doubt Dombrowki took a huge risk with Maggs, but I don't think that makes him an idiot.
It was widely reported in the media that nobody was talking to Maggs. Combine that with no rumors or reports that Team X was in talks with Maggs, you're looking at fairly reliable reports. When it was reported that nobody was talking to Maggs, the Tigers came running and, I think, asked Borass to write up a contract for them to sign ASAP.

wilburaga
11-01-2007, 04:36 AM
They have? They backed into the playoffs last year and laid down for a weak NL team; the only AL team to lay down for a weak NL team in a while. I must have missed their playoff games this year. I guess they were on really late after I went to sleep.

Well, I've been awake, and I've noticed that over the past few years, the Tigers have gone from being one of the most moribund franchises in all of baseball to the World Series, and another very competitive season. This complete turnabout was due, in no small part, to the contributions of Boras clients I-Rod, Maggs and the Gambler.

W

DumpJerry
11-01-2007, 07:30 AM
Well, I've been awake, and I've noticed that over the past few years, the Tigers have gone from being one of the most moribund franchises in all of baseball to the World Series, and another very competitive season. This complete turnabout was due, in no small part, to the contributions of Boras clients I-Rod, Maggs and the Gambler.

W
Is Leyland a Borass client? It was his threat to quit smoking in April, 2006 which launched the Tigers into the World Series.