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View Full Version : Kenny: Forget about A-Rod


Sockinchisox
10-30-2007, 10:39 AM
Says theres no way, because of the dollar figures.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/626194,CST-SPT-sox30.article

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 10:41 AM
He's going to the Angels, so it's really a moot point.

chisoxmike
10-30-2007, 10:41 AM
Expected. I never thought he was coming here anyway.

Looks like Kenny is already in "throw hands in the air and claim everyone is too expensive" mode.

:KW
"I just dont understand why A-Rod didn't take our 4 year $60 million offer with a team option for a 5th year at 18mil. We thought that was fair and market price."

sox1970
10-30-2007, 10:46 AM
Expected.

Looks like Kenny is already in "throw hands in the air and claim everyone is too expensive" mode.

It's Boras. They're done dealing with him.

Gammons Peter
10-30-2007, 10:48 AM
stupid article. What did kenny think A-Rod was going to command? A pay cut?

ode to veeck
10-30-2007, 10:49 AM
It's Boras. They're done dealing with him.

Baros just makes it a slam dunk no brainer in A-Rod's case, but Joe Crede is another matter altogether

chisoxmike
10-30-2007, 10:50 AM
stupid article. What did kenny think A-Rod was going to command? A pay cut?

I dont think Kenny ever intended to get A-Rod.

They'll sign some washed up players like Omar Vizquel and Mike Cameron this offseason and then wonder where it all went wrong.

Sockinchisox
10-30-2007, 10:52 AM
I dont think Kenny ever intended to get A-Rod.

They'll sign some washed up players like Omar Vizquel and Mike Cameron this offseason and then wonder where it all went wrong.

I hope your wrong, but deep down inside, I know your right.

sox1970
10-30-2007, 10:53 AM
Baros just makes it a slam dunk no brainer in A-Rod's case, but Joe Crede is another matter altogether

I doubt him either. Crede may be with the Sox in 2008, but I'd put 2009 and beyond at about 10%.

tebman
10-30-2007, 11:10 AM
No surprise here. Rodriguez is a great player, but not worth the cost or the Boras baggage. It would throw off the whole organization just like it did in Texas when Boras hypnotized them into giving Rodriguez that foolish contract.

The Sox need bullpen help more than they need an overpriced shortstop.

IlliniSox4Life
10-30-2007, 11:39 AM
1) As much as I hate Boras, if Kenny's reason for not trying to get ARod is because of Boras, we need a new GM. You can't just refuse to deal with some of the best FAs because of their agent.

2) I can't imagine that Kenny would not at least try to figure out what a more realistic number is. Sure Boras said the figure he wants, but I don't think he's going to get that. You have to at least make some sort of offer. I can't imagine there are that many teams that could actually afford that much more than we could.

southsideirish71
10-30-2007, 11:40 AM
It's Boras. They're done dealing with him.
Yet just one year ago they trade for Danks a Boras client.

sox1970
10-30-2007, 11:43 AM
Yet just one year ago they trade for Danks a Boras client.

Yes, but Danks is under team control for 5 more years.

veeter
10-30-2007, 11:43 AM
Expected. I never thought he was coming here anyway.

Looks like Kenny is already in "throw hands in the air and claim everyone is too expensive" mode.

:KW
"I just dont understand why A-Rod didn't take our 4 year $60 million offer with a team option for a 5th year at 18mil. We thought that was fair and market price."Well, now wait a minute. There's too expensive, and then there's insane. Screw A-rod. Kenny will have another nice off-season, on paper. Then we wait to see how the year goes. But not getting A-Rod, in no way should deem the White Sox dead for 2008.

southsideirish71
10-30-2007, 11:45 AM
1) As much as I hate Boras, if Kenny's reason for not trying to get ARod is because of Boras, we need a new GM. You can't just refuse to deal with some of the best FAs because of their agent.

2) I can't imagine that Kenny would not at least try to figure out what a more realistic number is. Sure Boras said the figure he wants, but I don't think he's going to get that. You have to at least make some sort of offer. I can't imagine there are that many teams that could actually afford that much more than we could.

How many of the top 10 players talent wise, the impact guys are represented by Boras in the draft next year. I dont want to see Kenny use "well they are represented by Boras" as an excuse to get a impact player. Whomever is the best talent available at 8 is the guy we should pick. If he uses that excuse next year, he will hurt this team for a long time. You dont want to spend large amounts of money on FA sure I buy that. But you need to spend money then on development and obtaining talent from the draft and from international signings. You cant just throw your hands up in both directions and say well its expensive. Our model should to develop like the mid market teams, and to use impact FAs in key positions to round out the team. This is the model that teams are going to now. Look at how valuable good prospects are now.

rdivaldi
10-30-2007, 11:45 AM
I hope your wrong, but deep down inside, I know your right.

Really? Because I think everyone else knows that you're both wrong...

:D:

chisoxmike
10-30-2007, 11:48 AM
Well, now wait a minute. There's too expensive, and then there's insane. Screw A-rod. Kenny will have another nice off-season, on paper. Then we wait to see how the year goes. But not getting A-Rod, in no way should deem the White Sox dead for 2008.

No, I'm not saying they are dead. But at some point Kenny and the Sox need to target the best players available. At least try, and not say "Well we thats too much for us, forget it." A-Rod is the best. Why not try and get the best?

Dont Stop Belivn
10-30-2007, 11:49 AM
i remember when Crede said that he would change agents if it means that he stays with the White Sox. I still dont see him changing, nor do i ever. That point aside, i think that you have to make an offer at least. Or maybe Kenny is just fooling us and A-rod will be playing 3rd of SS next season

veeter
10-30-2007, 11:52 AM
No, I'm not saying they are dead. But at some point Kenny and the Sox need to target the best players available. At least try, and not say "Well we thats too much for us, forget it." A-Rod is the best. Why not try and get the best?Because IMO, they would get out-bid in the end, just like last time. The Sox offer 200 mil., then the Rangers blow them out of the water. The thing could drag out for months, with the Sox not addressing other areas. I think if we shore up the bullpen, we'll be right back in this thing. I know what your saying, but to me, A-Rod is like in another universe that I'm happy the Sox don't want to visit.

Luke
10-30-2007, 11:53 AM
No where in the article did KW say he won't deal with Boras. The Sox have dealt with his clients in the past, with Hahn doing most of the negotiating with Boras.

The fact is, it doesn't matter who the agent is, paying that much for one player is dangerous for most teams in MLB. If It were Adam Katz and not Scott Boras it would still be too much.

ZombieRob
10-30-2007, 11:59 AM
I dont think Kenny ever intended to get A-Rod.

They'll sign some washed up players like Omar Vizquel and Mike Cameron this offseason and then wonder where it all went wrong.
Omar wouldn't be a bad hitterin the 9th spot.Than go after Eckstien to play 2b and lead off.Then i'd take a look and see what the Rays would be willing to take up for baldelli(sp) even though hes been injured probably could get him cheap.this way you can keep Owens on the bench with the big club.

thedudeabides
10-30-2007, 12:03 PM
1) As much as I hate Boras, if Kenny's reason for not trying to get ARod is because of Boras, we need a new GM. You can't just refuse to deal with some of the best FAs because of their agent.

2) I can't imagine that Kenny would not at least try to figure out what a more realistic number is. Sure Boras said the figure he wants, but I don't think he's going to get that. You have to at least make some sort of offer. I can't imagine there are that many teams that could actually afford that much more than we could.

1.) It's not like Kenny is saying they can afford ARod, but won't do it because Boras is his agent. They don't think it makes sense for the organization.

2.) I don't know if you've followed Boras' negotiations, but he will most likely get what he wants. If the Sox make an offer they think is fair, they will end up wasting their time and come out looking foolish....just like last time. There are reasons the Sox don't like dealing with Boras.

ndgt10
10-30-2007, 12:10 PM
2.) I don't know if you've followed Boras' negotiations, but he will most likely get what he wants. If the Sox make an offer they think is fair, they will end up wasting their time and come out looking foolish....just like last time. There are reasons the Sox don't like dealing with Boras.
So you're saying that Boras is good at his job? I don't know why everyone hates him for that.

spiffie
10-30-2007, 12:11 PM
Much as I have had issues with the Sox and their extremely strong anti-Boras stance in the past, I doubt this has much to do with him. It's very hard to criticize a team, no matter who they are, for not wanting to commit to a deal that will probably be something around 9 years and 260 million or so. And I'm certainly not going to criticize them for that. Would I like to see A-Rod on the South Side? Sure. But I'm not going to castigate the organization for deciding to use their resources elsewhere, and I don't really add this to the list of things that seem to show an unnatural hatred of Boras as pervasive in the organization.

JermaineDye05
10-30-2007, 12:12 PM
although I think it's a long shot for the sox to sign A-Rod, I'm not going to put any truth into what Kenny says about signing players in the offseason. He's not going to go right out and tell the media the list of players he plans on acquiring.

jenn2080
10-30-2007, 12:35 PM
Did anyone actually think ARod was an option?

chisoxmike
10-30-2007, 12:36 PM
Did anyone actually think ARod was an option?

Never

thedudeabides
10-30-2007, 12:44 PM
So you're saying that Boras is good at his job? I don't know why everyone hates him for that.

Yes, he is good at his job. That's not why most people don't like him. I'm not getting into that, I'm saying the Sox have been burned by him in the past and I think they know there are certain situations to steer clear of. This being on of them. I never expected the Sox to be players in the ARod bidding.

Sargeant79
10-30-2007, 12:45 PM
Never

Nor did I. And unless they were planning on raising payroll by an amount that would accomodate his annual salary (we're talking $30 million plus per year), I don't think it's even a good idea.

It's Time
10-30-2007, 12:47 PM
Shocking!

Lip Man 1
10-30-2007, 12:47 PM
It appears any shot for this has already disappeared.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/626194,CST-SPT-sox30.article

I don't think anyone should really be surprised, it was a very, very long shot at best.

(Sorry I didn't see another link when I scanned through)

Dude:

Just for clarification there appeared to be some other factors the last time regarding Rodriguez and the White Sox. I seem to recall comments made on the radio by Boras (and if memory serves confirmed by Rodriguez) that the Sox asked to speak with Alex without Boras being present. I'll try to find something concrete on this.

Lip

IlliniSox4Life
10-30-2007, 12:58 PM
1.) It's not like Kenny is saying they can afford ARod, but won't do it because Boras is his agent. They don't think it makes sense for the organization.

2.) I don't know if you've followed Boras' negotiations, but he will most likely get what he wants. If the Sox make an offer they think is fair, they will end up wasting their time and come out looking foolish....just like last time. There are reasons the Sox don't like dealing with Boras.

1) I never said that is what Kenny is saying in the case of ARod, but as I recall people have mentioned in the past that Kenny is less willing to go after a player because Boras is their agent.

2) If no team is willing to pay Boras the ridiculously high $300 million he wants, he won't get it. Since the Yankees are out of the question, I don't think the bidding will go quite that high.

It's Time
10-30-2007, 12:59 PM
Meanwhile, the North siders are keeping quiet on the A-rod front, although they say it could be possible.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/626181,CST-SPT-cub30.article

voodoochile
10-30-2007, 01:00 PM
It appears any shot for this has already disappeared.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/626194,CST-SPT-sox30.article

I don't think anyone should really be surprised, it was a very, very long shot at best.

(Sorry I didn't see another link when I scanned through)

Dude:

Just for clarification there appeared to be some other factors the last time regarding Rodriguez and the White Sox. I seem to recall comments made on the radio by Boras (and if memory serves confirmed by Rodriguez) that the Sox asked to speak with Alex without Boras being present. I'll try to find something concrete on this.

Lip

It was in WTS. I meant to move it here, but forgot. Your thread reminded me.

thedudeabides
10-30-2007, 01:09 PM
1) I never said that is what Kenny is saying in the case of ARod, but as I recall people have mentioned in the past that Kenny is less willing to go after a player because Boras is their agent.

2) If no team is willing to pay Boras the ridiculously high $300 million he wants, he won't get it. Since the Yankees are out of the question, I don't think the bidding will go quite that high.

Kenny is less willing because Boras has screwed around with him in the past. One of those times is when they tried to get involved in the original ARod free agent negotiations. It was thrown back in their face. All I am saying is that they won't set themselves up for that again.

And Boras wouldn't have had Arod opt out if he couldn't get him a better deal. I can't think of a time that Boras has failed to get his client what he wants.

Soxfest
10-30-2007, 01:16 PM
BOR-ASS = no chance for A-Rod. JR will not spend that kind of money on anyone. I hope KW will get some decent players this winter not the bottom shelf CHEAP scraps of 2007. Mr. Smugass needs to do his job better in offseason

Lip Man 1
10-30-2007, 01:16 PM
Dude:

Well Kenny Rogers backfired on him, but that's the only one I could think of.

Lip

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 01:18 PM
BOR-ASS = no chance for A-Rod. JR will not spend that kind of money on anyone. I hope KW will get some decent players this winter not the bottom shelf CHEAP scraps of 2007. Mr. Smugass needs to do his job better in offseason

And you should probably get a clue and look at the Sox's payroll. It's one thing to criticize when the facts back you up. It's another to ignore the facts and criticize.

Flight #24
10-30-2007, 01:32 PM
My only question here is peripherally related to ARod. By all accounts, MLB teams are "flush" with new streams of revenue (XM, etc.). If that is indeed the case, why isn't this hitting the Sox? If it is hitting the Sox, where is it showing up? In general, they've behaved as if they spend the available revenue (or at least there is a direct correlation between the 2). This is the first instance I can think of where there's a seeming divergence.

If Kenny is saying "We have money and prefer to spend it another way", that's fine - even if I may disagree with him on the best way to spend it (I think ARod & Owens at $30M is better than Hunter and Eckstein at say $25M total).

But if they simply say they don't have $$$ to spend beyond what they did last year and a small increase then I begin to wonder what's going on because it won't add up.

spiffie
10-30-2007, 01:41 PM
My only question here is peripherally related to ARod. By all accounts, MLB teams are "flush" with new streams of revenue (XM, etc.). If that is indeed the case, why isn't this hitting the Sox? If it is hitting the Sox, where is it showing up? In general, they've behaved as if they spend the available revenue (or at least there is a direct correlation between the 2). This is the first instance I can think of where there's a seeming divergence.

If Kenny is saying "We have money and prefer to spend it another way", that's fine - even if I may disagree with him on the best way to spend it (I think ARod & Owens at $30M is better than Hunter and Eckstein at say $25M total).

But if they simply say they don't have $$$ to spend beyond what they did last year and a small increase then I begin to wonder what's going on because it won't add up.
I would think one plausible reason is that they forecast the rise in revenues from ancillary sources to be offset by the loss of revenue from the drop in real attendance in 2007 (lots of no-shows 2nd half of the season) and the likely drop in ticket sales for 2008. Also the drop in ratings might mean that they are getting less money from CSN than in the previous year when they were pulling huge tv ratings. That might all add up to not being able to substantially increase payroll.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2007, 01:44 PM
Flight:

Agreed with your comments. Hard to say what is really going on but you bring up some valid questions.

Lip

DumpJerry
10-30-2007, 01:47 PM
Wow. Everyone take a deep breath and stop hyperventilating.

If the Sox got into negotiations with ARod, it would not be a quick back and forth. It would be protracted as Borass plays several teams off each other (who wouldn't do that?). While the Sox are waiting to see if they "win" the ARod sweepstakes, they do not know what their budget is for more pressing matters like, say, the Bullpen. While waiting for ARod, someone else will sign Torii Hunter and Mariano Rivera. Hunter and Rivera together could bring us closer to a World Series appearance in 2008 than ARod by himself.

By the way, Crede is a Borass client. They've been able to sign him without much drama each time his contract is negotiated. They also have signed other Borass clients. While KW and many, many other GMs talk about their refusal to talk with Borass, they know they have to only because of the sheer volume of players he represents. I'm sure if there are two similar FA's available to a team with the main difference being one is a Borass client, the non-Borass player will get a contract more quickly.

spiffie
10-30-2007, 01:52 PM
Wow. Everyone take a deep breath and stop hyperventilating.

If the Sox got into negotiations with ARod, it would not be a quick back and forth. It would be protracted as Borass plays several teams off each other (who wouldn't do that?). While the Sox are waiting to see if they "win" the ARod sweepstakes, they do not know what their budget is for more pressing matters like, say, the Bullpen. While waiting for ARod, someone else will sign Torii Hunter and Mariano Rivera. Hunter and Rivera together could bring us closer to a World Series appearance in 2008 than ARod by himself.

By the way, Crede is a Borass client. They've been able to sign him without much drama each time his contract is negotiated. They also have signed other Borass clients. While KW and many, many other GMs talk about their refusal to talk with Borass, they know they have to only because of the sheer volume of players he represents. I'm sure if there are two similar FA's available to a team with the main difference being one is a Borass client, the non-Borass player will get a contract more quickly.
Agreed with the first part of your statement to a degree.

As for the second part though, Crede isn't really a fair example. There's not much Boras can do. They could go to arbitration, but Boras isn't stupid. He knows an arbitrator isn't going to be moved by fear of missing the playoffs or public backlash. Its easier to just settle than to risk possibly getting an unfavorable outcome. The test will be the first time that the Sox find themselves in negotations with a Boras client who is on the open market, or who has some other option beyond the White Sox. Crede and Danks right now are basically the property of the Sox, with only minimal bargaining room for them to work in.

Domeshot17
10-30-2007, 02:21 PM
(1) We wont get Rivera or Hunter. We won't pay for hunter, and Mariano is not going somewhere to set up, especially to a 72 win team.

(2) Those expecting much in FA will be GREATLY disappointed. Kenny doesn't do free agency. Who is the last top Free Agent we bid for and won? We pick everyone up by trade, which means the likes of Garland-Konerko-Crede will have to go plug 3-4 holes.

(3) Boras owns Kenny and JR. Like I said before, we can all hate him, but if we won't deal with him because he always owns us, it means he is a better agent then we have GM and Owner. I mean how many excuses will we make. We don't draft top prospects in the draft who fall because he reps them. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NEXT YEAR? REACH BIG TIME BECAUSE HE IS THE AGENT FOR 50% OF THE TOP 15 PICKS?

It sucks we can't deal with Boras, because we lose out on so many guys. It will cost us Crede (and now spit out the 'say the right thing' speech Crede gave about replacing Boras for him, and keep saying it as Crede gets big bucks elsewhere), Maybe Danks down the road. Guys leave for Boras all the time, but I can't remember the last time I heard someone fired Scott Boras.

Its going to be a long off season.

Foulke You
10-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Wow. Everyone take a deep breath and stop hyperventilating.

If the Sox got into negotiations with ARod, it would not be a quick back and forth. It would be protracted as Borass plays several teams off each other (who wouldn't do that?). While the Sox are waiting to see if they "win" the ARod sweepstakes, they do not know what their budget is for more pressing matters like, say, the Bullpen. While waiting for ARod, someone else will sign Torii Hunter and Mariano Rivera. Hunter and Rivera together could bring us closer to a World Series appearance in 2008 than ARod by himself.

By the way, Crede is a Borass client. They've been able to sign him without much drama each time his contract is negotiated. They also have signed other Borass clients. While KW and many, many other GMs talk about their refusal to talk with Borass, they know they have to only because of the sheer volume of players he represents. I'm sure if there are two similar FA's available to a team with the main difference being one is a Borass client, the non-Borass player will get a contract more quickly.
Excellent post, Dump. How can anyone blame KW for not wanting to pony up $30 million per for one player? It's not like the Sox are just one player away from the World Series. We have multiple holes to fill and KW knows it. We could sign Torii Hunter, David Eckstein, and Luis Castillo for around $30 million. Solve SS, 2B, and CF for the price of just filling SS with a superstar. Those three players would definitely bring us closer to our goal than one A-Rod. At the end of the day, it is simple math.

tebman
10-30-2007, 02:27 PM
As for the second part though, Crede isn't really a fair example. There's not much Boras can do. They could go to arbitration, but Boras isn't stupid. He knows an arbitrator isn't going to be moved by fear of missing the playoffs or public backlash. Its easier to just settle than to risk possibly getting an unfavorable outcome. The test will be the first time that the Sox find themselves in negotations with a Boras client who is on the open market, or who has some other option beyond the White Sox. Crede and Danks right now are basically the property of the Sox, with only minimal bargaining room for them to work in.
In the New Yorker magazine profile of Boras, it pointed out that Boras has lost 12 of his last 15 arbitration cases, probably from overreaching. That's probably a big reason there's been so little drama with Crede.

But JR, KW, Hahn, and the rest are not foolish. If there was a player they really wanted they would deal with Boras and deal tough. Like DumpJerry said, the sheer volume of Boras clients practically assures that it's going to come up at some point. JR also has an extensive network he's built in the last 26 years that he can tap into for as much ammunition as he might need to go into negotiations with Boras.

I just think KW believes that resources are better spent on other needs than a single superstar shortstop, and I agree.

spiffie
10-30-2007, 02:31 PM
It sucks we can't deal with Boras, because we lose out on so many guys. It will cost us Crede (and now spit out the 'say the right thing' speech Crede gave about replacing Boras for him, and keep saying it as Crede gets big bucks elsewhere), Maybe Danks down the road. Guys leave for Boras all the time, but I can't remember the last time I heard someone fired Scott Boras.

Its going to be a long off season.
Apparently Juan Uribe fired him before coming from COL to here. I'm not sure if that makes me more or less interested in the Sox exercising that option.

chisoxmike
10-30-2007, 02:35 PM
Apparently Juan Uribe fired him before coming from COL to here.

Thats probably why KW loves him so much.

Soxfest
10-30-2007, 02:42 PM
And you should probably get a clue and look at the Sox's payroll. It's one thing to criticize when the facts back you up. It's another to ignore the facts and criticize.


I did not say anything about overall payroll, I said what Sox acquired in 2007 was scraps in free agent market and they were! Reading is a skill!

ilsox7
10-30-2007, 02:44 PM
I did not say anything about overall payroll, I said what Sox acquired in 2007 was scraps in free agent market and they were! Reading is a skill!

It is a skill that I happen to have. You said that the Sox were CHEAP in 2007. By saying that you wanted them to spend more money on free agents, you are speaking directly to the level of payroll.

wulfy
10-30-2007, 02:53 PM
I would think one plausible reason is that they forecast the rise in revenues from ancillary sources to be offset by the loss of revenue from the drop in real attendance in 2007 (lots of no-shows 2nd half of the season) and the likely drop in ticket sales for 2008. Also the drop in ratings might mean that they are getting less money from CSN than in the previous year when they were pulling huge tv ratings. That might all add up to not being able to substantially increase payroll.

So clearly, wouldn't a reinvestment in that product in 2008 pay dividends?

If the Sox signed A-Rod, how many season tickets would they sell? Lots.

What would it do the TV ratings? Increase dramatically.

Would it get them back on the front page of the newspaper instead of the new frickin' grass at The Shrine?? At least on the Sun Times.

Good Lord - if the Sox brought in A-Rod and A-Row - they'd have to add a triple deck on the Cell .....

schmitty9800
10-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Good, now the next step is not overpaying for Luis Castillo and Rowand (who I like and want to come here but not for 13-14 mil)

spiffie
10-30-2007, 03:02 PM
So clearly, wouldn't a reinvestment in that product in 2008 pay dividends?

If the Sox signed A-Rod, how many season tickets would they sell? Lots.

What would it do the TV ratings? Increase dramatically.

Would it get them back on the front page of the newspaper instead of the new frickin' grass at The Shrine?? At least on the Sun Times.

Good Lord - if the Sox brought in A-Rod and A-Row - they'd have to add a triple deck on the Cell .....
Yes, they would sell a lot of 2008 season tickets. The ratings would increase early. But if they still had a crappy pen, an undependable #4 and #5 starter, and holes at CF, LF, and 2B, they likely would still be losing a lot of games, and A-Rod or no, people wouldn't be watching come August.

cbotnyse
10-30-2007, 03:11 PM
I knew it was a long shot, but I would have loved to have seen it happen.

chitown13
10-30-2007, 03:57 PM
Smoke and Mirrors

soxinem1
10-30-2007, 06:14 PM
I'd rather spend the $$$ on an OF and bullpen.

KW should use his 2004 off-season philosophy and get the most for the buck, not dump it on some showboat who shows no respect for the game that has made him worth over a half billion dollars.

soxinem1
10-30-2007, 06:18 PM
So clearly, wouldn't a reinvestment in that product in 2008 pay dividends?

If the Sox signed A-Rod, how many season tickets would they sell? Lots.

What would it do the TV ratings? Increase dramatically.

Would it get them back on the front page of the newspaper instead of the new frickin' grass at The Shrine?? At least on the Sun Times.

Good Lord - if the Sox brought in A-Rod and A-Row - they'd have to add a triple deck on the Cell .....

the Rangers thought the same thing. It got them nowhere except last place.

gobears1987
10-30-2007, 06:27 PM
This is yet another case of the organization being cheap and not paying Boras clients what they are worth.

Flight #24
10-30-2007, 09:21 PM
the Rangers thought the same thing. It got them nowhere except last place.
As has been said ad nauseum: The Rangers didn't lose BECAUSE of ARod, they lost because they had no pitching. Now yes, you can argue absent his salary they could have bought better pitchers, but that's not a problem for the Sox - they already have 3-4 starting pitchers as good or better than any on those Ranger teams. What they need is an improved offense (including better balance and less all or nothing), and better D - both of which he gives you in spades.

Coach Ice
10-30-2007, 09:24 PM
I wish Kenny Williams would have at least listened to Boras and perhaps tried to work out deal before just saying no.

areilly
10-30-2007, 09:28 PM
Did anyone actually think ARod was an option?

I wanted to believe there was at least an outside chance, and that Sox brass would finally go on the offensive where building a more widely-marketable franchise was concerned.

areilly
10-30-2007, 09:34 PM
KW should use his 2004 off-season philosophy and get the most for the buck, not dump it on some showboat who shows no respect for the game that has made him worth over a half billion dollars.

The stunt was Boras at work, not Rodriguez.

But you've got to be kidding with the first part of that post. KW's 2004 offseason philosophy was exactly the same as it was pretty much every other offseason: bet the house and hope for the best. At 1 for 7, that's worse odds than playing dice.

Lillian
10-31-2007, 06:50 AM
Even though K.W. publicly dismissed any notion of trying to sign A-Rod, I wouldn't necessarily assume that he isn't interested. It may not take $30 million a year to get him here. If the Yankees and Red Sox aren't players, then that only leaves the two L.A. teams as other realistically potential suitors. Perhaps it wouldn't require quite that much to get it done. Isn't it likely that A-Rod opting out of his contract had more to do with some factors other than the dollar amount? Maybe he is more concerned about extending the contract out several years beyond the expiration date of the old contract. His desire to leave N.Y. and the fan abuse, may also be involved.
Then there was always the issue of the tension between him and Jeter.
At any rate, isn't it possible that an eight year deal at the same $25 million a year might be enough to acquire him?

I'm not sure that I think A-Rod is even the type of guy that we'd want in the club house, however that aside, he would be a huge asset, as so many have stated.
Couldn't we fill the rest of the holes without signing another expensive free agent, if we spent the money on Alex? We certainly wouldn't need Konerko anymore, and he could probably net us the players we need to fill the holes at lead off, and in the pen. The Angels would seem like the best fit, as we have discussed many times. Figgins in left, and batting lead off could fill that need. They have a couple of relief pitchers we could really use. The Angels covet Konerko, and they have guys we could use to fill the holes in the pen, and at lead off.
Moreover, if we had a good lead off hitter, we could afford to let Owens play CF, and bat ninth. Fields could replace Konerko at first. Trading Paulie would be as much about saving the money, as the players you would get back.
Crede could be signed to a reasonable one year deal, keeping our infield defense in tact.
We could then keep Garland, giving us a potentially solid rotation.
Now if you could just exchange those big contracts on Furcal and Contreras, you could finish filling all of the big holes. In that scenario, you could move A-Rod to First Base, and let Fields platoon with Thome. I think that A-Rod is probably destined for First Base down the road anyway.

Here's the lineup:

LF Figgins
1B Fields
SS A-Rod
DH Thome
RF Dye
3B Crede
C AJ
2B Richar
CF Owens

Under Plan B, you move Furcal to Short, bat him second.
Fields platoons with Thome at DH
A-Rod plays First.

That team has very good speed, and the heart of the order would be among the best in baseball, maybe even rivaling Boston's.
My biggest question mark is whether or not A-Rod can still play Short. If not, then you might have to leave him at third, and then you have to figure out how to move Crede, and replace him with a short stop. I prefer moving him to First, and finding a slick fielding short stop.
The other short coming would be the weak arms in CF and Left. Maybe the speed out there would offset enough of that weakness, to afford sufficient outfield defense. The exception of course is Dye, who has slowed considerably, but at least still has a good glove and a very good arm.

IlliniSox4Life
10-31-2007, 06:56 AM
Now that I think about it, even if Kenny was planning on making a run at A-Rod, this is exactly what he would say. Under the radar, remember? Borass is doing his best to promote A-Rod, and Kenny would be doing his best to say there's no way it's happening. I'm not saying it's evidence that he would be coming here, just that it doesn't really mean Kenny isn't going to make any attempt.

chisox77
10-31-2007, 11:25 AM
Lillian, that is an excellent post.

:D:

October26
10-31-2007, 11:48 AM
Even though K.W. publicly dismissed any notion of trying to sign A-Rod, I wouldn't necessarily assume that he isn't interested. It may not take $30 million a year to get him here. If the Yankees and Red Sox aren't players, then that only leaves the two L.A. teams as other realistically potential suitors. Perhaps it wouldn't require quite that much to get it done. Isn't it likely that A-Rod opting out of his contract had more to do with some factors other than the dollar amount? Maybe he is more concerned about extending the contract out several years beyond the expiration date of the old contract. His desire to leave N.Y. and the fan abuse, may also be involved.
Then there was always the issue of the tension between him and Jeter.
At any rate, isn't it possible that an eight year deal at the same $25 million a year might be enough to acquire him?

I'm not sure that I think A-Rod is even the type of guy that we'd want in the club house, however that aside, he would be a huge asset, as so many have stated.
Couldn't we fill the rest of the holes without signing another expensive free agent, if we spent the money on Alex? We certainly wouldn't need Konerko anymore, and he could probably net us the players we need to fill the holes at lead off, and in the pen. The Angels would seem like the best fit, as we have discussed many times. Figgins in left, and batting lead off could fill that need. They have a couple of relief pitchers we could really use. The Angels covet Konerko, and they have guys we could use to fill the holes in the pen, and at lead off.
Moreover, if we had a good lead off hitter, we could afford to let Owens play CF, and bat ninth. Fields could replace Konerko at first. Trading Paulie would be as much about saving the money, as the players you would get back.
Crede could be signed to a reasonable one year deal, keeping our infield defense in tact.
We could then keep Garland, giving us a potentially solid rotation.
Now if you could just exchange those big contracts on Furcal and Contreras, you could finish filling all of the big holes. In that scenario, you could move A-Rod to First Base, and let Fields platoon with Thome. I think that A-Rod is probably destined for First Base down the road anyway.

Here's the lineup:

LF Figgins
1B Fields
SS A-Rod
DH Thome
RF Dye
3B Crede
C AJ
2B Richar
CF Owens

Under Plan B, you move Furcal to Short, bat him second.
Fields platoons with Thome at DH
A-Rod plays First.

That team has very good speed, and the heart of the order would be among the best in baseball, maybe even rivaling Boston's.
My biggest question mark is whether or not A-Rod can still play Short. If not, then you might have to leave him at third, and then you have to figure out how to move Crede, and replace him with a short stop. I prefer moving him to First, and finding a slick fielding short stop.
The other short coming would be the weak arms in CF and Left. Maybe the speed out there would offset enough of that weakness, to afford sufficient outfield defense. The exception of course is Dye, who has slowed considerably, but at least still has a good glove and a very good arm.

L -

I like the way you think! And yes, I believe that A-rod can definitely still play short. He was an all-star at that position and surely he has not forgotten how to play SS during his short stint in NY? Somebody get Lillian's post/plan over to Kenny asap!

Lip Man 1
10-31-2007, 01:06 PM
A few thoughts:

Is it possible through a series of circumstances the Sox could still be interested in Rodriguez? Sure but a lot of things would have to happen for that to become even a decent chance. Someone is going to give him a lot of money. I just can't see his 'price' going down enough for the Sox to re-think this situation. We'll see.

Rodriguez has gained about thirty pounds since his days as a shortstop, that's a lot less range and flexibility. I'm not saying he couldn't go back to short, but now, at his age and with his frame it would be difficult. (Much like Josh Fields even attempting to play short.)

Again would I like him on the team, certainly...however there's a lot of truth to what Ed Sherman told me today. "I'd rather have an 18 game winner at 14 million a year, a decent lead off guy at 10-12 million and a bullpen guy at 4-5 million then spend 30 million on one guy."

Lip

jabrch
10-31-2007, 01:12 PM
I find it much more telling to watch what Kenny does rather than listen to what Kenny says.

I dont think we will get A-Rod. I'm not sure I'd want him, per Lip/Sherman - 30mm buys you two top tier FA which may help us more than one, even the best player in the game.

That said, I don't trust a word of what comes out of Kenny's mouth. That's a good thing. If you GM puts out a public decree of exactly what his strategy/plan is, it makes it very hard to execute to that plan without interference from other teams.

chisox77
10-31-2007, 01:23 PM
We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I've learned a while ago that KW may say something, then do the opposite.


:cool:

Lillian
10-31-2007, 02:05 PM
In thinking more about how much it might take to sign A-Rod, we have to remember that no team has ever given him more than the $25 million per year deal that Hicks and the Rangers gave him. The extravagant Steinbrenner didn't even spend that much on him, in that the Rangers have been subsidizing the Yankees ever since the trade. We really don't know if anyone else would actually even match his old contract. Then too, that money for another 8 years at his age is not as good of an investment as the original 10 year deal, when he was young, even considering the escalation of baseball salaries.

Again, this may be more about his trying to extend that contract out until he is pushing 40, than it is about increasing the annual salary. How bad do you think he wants out of N.Y.?

drewcifer
10-31-2007, 03:23 PM
In thinking more about how much it might take to sign A-Rod, we have to remember that no team has ever given him more than the $25 million per year deal that Hicks and the Rangers gave him. The extravagant Steinbrenner didn't even spend that much on him, in that the Rangers have been subsidizing the Yankees ever since the trade. We really don't know if anyone else would actually even match his old contract. Then too, that money for another 8 years at his age is not as good of an investment as the original 10 year deal, when he was young, even considering the escalation of baseball salaries.

Again, this may be more about his trying to extend that contract out until he is pushing 40, than it is about increasing the annual salary. How bad do you think he wants out of N.Y.?

If it's more about getting out of NY, in a sense, it puts us in an even potentially worse case scenario than last year. Here's why:

- A-Rod for 8 years for $200M would get the attention of alot of teams. Teams with much less holes to fill than us. If you're A-Rod, and your agent is Scott Boras, why do you choose the White Sox?
- Your plan assumes that KW has the time to hold A-Rod in the wings with this offer, while he makes a deal with the Angels to shed his Konerko salary and get Figgins and some BP help in the process. Now go back to the first point... If A-Rod and Boras have any sense, they'd insist on that being proven first before they even think about the offer from us. Not the other way around. But let's assume they are that foolish, and they sign.
- Now your left with trying to move someone else to subsidize A-Rod and fill your holes. If Konerko doesn't work, all you got left is Garland. And you might as well package a Thome and/or Dye, but now you're creating more holes just for the sake of A-Rod. Because trading Garland for a good lead-off, center fielder, and BP help is massively unlikely, it's going to take the other guys to free the payroll room and get the bodies, plus (and more importantly), your SP core which was once a strength just got alot weaker.

If you look at the two teams out west, they are in a much better position to pull off an almost identical plan. The Dodgers can dump Furcal for a bag of baseballs and have A-Rod almost immediately 1/2 paid for ($13M+ and he immediately fills SS). They also have a surplus of OFers to make for whatever fleecing Coletti takes on that deal. They've got a decent bullpen and maybe still $ room to bolster the SP.

The Angels will probably let Colon walk (also effectively clearing the way to pay for a big chunk of A-Rod - $18M) and they give up almost nothing over their last season. They too already have a good bullpen, and in fact, can probably spare some of it if need be to get a deal done to bolster 1B. They keep their speed and timely hitting, and Vlad never even came up in the plan while the Angels just created something better than a Manny/Big Papi combo.

Boston is flush with cash and prospects too and would easily be able to pull off an A-Rod acquisition without hurting themselves in the process. Plus, if the premise with what this started with is truly "getting out of NY", what better F-U to the Yankees can you think of than taking the years for same or less and going to Boston???

It's a wonderful plan on paper - I just don't see it as realistic. It's gambling with too many big pieces for the White Sox that represent more risk than they do gain for any failure in it.

We need a bullpen and then a CFer more than we need A-Rod, and trying to do a deal to fill those while you acquire him at the very least requires a better relationship with Boras than the White Sox have (or likely ever will).

Lillian
10-31-2007, 04:41 PM
If it's more about getting out of NY, in a sense, it puts us in an even potentially worse case scenario than last year. Here's why:

- A-Rod for 8 years for $200M would get the attention of alot of teams. Teams with much less holes to fill than us. If you're A-Rod, and your agent is Scott Boras, why do you choose the White Sox?
- Your plan assumes that KW has the time to hold A-Rod in the wings with this offer, while he makes a deal with the Angels to shed his Konerko salary and get Figgins and some BP help in the process. Now go back to the first point... If A-Rod and Boras have any sense, they'd insist on that being proven first before they even think about the offer from us. Not the other way around. But let's assume they are that foolish, and they sign.
- Now your left with trying to move someone else to subsidize A-Rod and fill your holes. If Konerko doesn't work, all you got left is Garland. And you might as well package a Thome and/or Dye, but now you're creating more holes just for the sake of A-Rod.

That is an interesting point. In any case, I'd like to see the Sox trade Konerko for the leadoff hitter, and bull pen help. If they can't sign A-Rod, then spend some money on an upgrade for Center, and Short. Trading Garland is not a good way to fill our holes. We all know that pitching and defense wins championships, and I'd hate to depend on Contreras and two unproven youngsters in the starting rotation.

This team needs to get faster, and have more high on base percentage hitters, whether we get A-Rod, or not.

Lip Man 1
10-31-2007, 06:12 PM
This may wind up someplace else but right now it's being reported the Mets are EXTREMELY interested in Rodriguez to the point where G.M. Omar Minaya said he wants to have a "private" talk with David Wright.

Wright has already been quoted as saying he'd have no problems moving to 2nd to accomodate Rodriguez.

Lip

chisox77
10-31-2007, 06:22 PM
Now that makes sense, what the Mets are "reportedley" doing to get A-Rod. It would be a good shot at the Yankees. But from A-Rod's standpoint, it's still New York (though Queens). Wouldn't he want to get out of NYC - period?

drewcifer
10-31-2007, 06:56 PM
The Mets? They already have the best bang for the buck at both 3rd and SS. They also have huge $ obligations to Delgado and Beltran. Shawn Green is probably gone. They've got holes either right now, or looming, in every place that A-Rod doesn't fit.

If anything, one would think they'd be looking to move pieces to get Santana.

Lip Man 1
10-31-2007, 08:55 PM
Drew:

Ummmm that's also being 'mentioned.' That the Mets may be in play for Santana, that they'd trade Reyes as part of the package to get him and move Rodriguez back to short.

If the Twins are dead set to deal him they could do a lot worse then get the top lead off guy in baseball in return.

Lip

jabrch
10-31-2007, 09:01 PM
Drew:

Ummmm that's also being 'mentioned.' That the Mets may be in play for Santana, that they'd trade Reyes as part of the package to get him and move Rodriguez back to short.

If the Twins are dead set to deal him they could do a lot worse then get the top lead off guy in baseball in return.

Lip

If they'd trade Reyes for him, I'd be shocked if the Twins didn't jump for that deal.

DickAllen72
10-31-2007, 09:14 PM
I dont think we will get A-Rod. I'm not sure I'd want him, per Lip/Sherman - 30mm buys you two top tier FA which may help us more than one, even the best player in the game.

That said, I don't trust a word of what comes out of Kenny's mouth. That's a good thing. If you GM puts out a public decree of exactly what his strategy/plan is, it makes it very hard to execute to that plan without interference from other teams.
I'd have no problem at all if Kenny decided to spend that $30M per year for the next five years on Rowand and Hunter. I'd still rather have A-Rod, but an outfield of Dye, Hunter and Rowand would suit me fine, and they wouldn't be committed to them for more than five years, and the risk of injury would be spread among two players over five years rather than one player over ten.

I agree with everything you wrote about Kenny. As we all have experienced, we never really know what Kenny is going to do until he does it, which is a good thing--"flying under the radar."

I still have a lot of faith in KW and still consider him one of the better GM's in the game. And I love his attitude and his committment to building a winner. Say what you will about Kenny, but two things he's not are gun-shy nor indecisive. He has a plan for this offseason--let's watch it unfold. Should be fun.

Frontman
11-01-2007, 08:48 AM
Thank you Kenny for having a brain. A-rod, while a special player, shouldn't dominate a roster's payroll to the point it damages either the pricing for the fans, or the amount of money the GM has to work with to build a winning team.

If A-Rod meant we got 3 titles in the next 5 years, I'd be all over signing him; but he hasn't won a ring yet, he's got Borass as an agent. Two strikes already.

JorgeFabregas
11-01-2007, 10:43 AM
Terry Boers has hinted that Kenny is blowing smoke and is actually pursuing A-Rod. For what it's worth.

chisox77
11-01-2007, 10:48 AM
You never know with KW. And there's a decent chance the Sox could get Hunter. (I've always coveted him, just look at my latest posts).


:cool:

jabrch
11-01-2007, 01:09 PM
Terry Boers has hinted that Kenny is blowing smoke and is actually pursuing A-Rod. For what it's worth.


That would surprise nobody.

In fact, I'd be very surprised if KW would take any viable options off the table.

areilly
11-01-2007, 11:48 PM
If A-Rod meant we got 3 titles in the next 5 years, I'd be all over signing him; but he hasn't won a ring yet, he's got Borass as an agent. Two strikes already.

Come on, that's a hollow argument and you know it. How many rings do Johan Santana, David Wright, Jose Reyes, Ichiro, Grady Sizemore, Justin Verlander, Vlad Guerrero, Brandon Webb, Jake Peavy, Roy Oswalt and Matt Holliday have? Given the chance, would you pass on them as well?

doublem23
11-01-2007, 11:58 PM
That would surprise nobody.

In fact, I'd be very surprised if KW would take any viable options off the table.

I agree. I'm sure Kenny isn't going to enter the $30 million/year area, but every team that has said anything so far has said they're not interested in A-Rod at that sort of a price tag. He's going to wind up somewhere, and I'm sure if that price eventually fell to something that was workable for the Sox, I'm sure KW would at least approach the subject. He'd be a fool not to.

Lillian
11-02-2007, 11:28 AM
What do you think motivates A-Rod the most at this point in his career?
If money is still the biggest factor, then I would personally have to wonder about his character. He, and his entire family should be financially set for life. Wouldn't the all time Home Run Title, and a World Championship be much more important?

Maybe we should be trying to assess his goals before we speculate about where he ends up. There are only a few teams who could justify paying him the kind of money he wants. The N.Y. market is probably not included. That leaves L.A. and Chicago. He could sure hit a lot more homers in either Wrigley, or the Cell than he could in LA.

On another point, wouldn't it be great if no one offered him even as much as his old contract. It could happen. After all, no one should expect his next 7 years to be as productive as were those last 7. Sure, he may hit more homers, but the speed and defense is not now, nor can it be expected to be in the future, on the same level.

wdelaney72
11-02-2007, 11:40 AM
I'm sure Kenny is interested, and he should be, but I don't see him wrecking the organization to bring him here:

Reasons for A-Rod to come to the White Sox:
1. Chicago is a large market and will provide him with plenty of non-baseball revenue opportunities and international exposure.

2. The Cell is a HR friendly ballpark

3. World Series Championship in 2005 and a current pitching staff that has the ability to do it again.

4. Chicago is not New York and doesn't have their fans or media.

If those 4 reasons combined with a reasonable yet lucrative contract offer are not enought to bring him here (and yes, I know the reality is that it won't be) then Kenny should simply smile and move on with the rest of his off-season plans... even though Rodriguez's destination significantly impacts the off-season plans of most GMs.

Paulwny
11-02-2007, 11:45 AM
What do you think motivates A-Rod the most at this point in his career?
If money is still the biggest factor, then I would personally have to wonder about his character. He, and his entire family should be financially set for life. Wouldn't the all time Home Run Title, and a World Championship be much more important?



I believe the only title he really wants is-- "The highest paid player in the history of baseball "

drewcifer
11-02-2007, 11:46 AM
What do you think motivates A-Rod the most at this point in his career?
If money is still the biggest factor, then I would personally have to wonder about his character. He, and his entire family should be financially set for life. Wouldn't the all time Home Run Title, and a World Championship be much more important?


It's pretty clear that what motivates A-Rod is being recognized as the best. Everyone's favorite. Despite getting paid the most, he didn't get that in NY, so here we are.

In sports, the best get paid the most.

If you're not questioning his character by now, you absolutely should. Hell, even his agent is talking about only what HE means to baseball; not as a member of any team. It's about why he doesn't have a ring, how he is going to surpass Bonds, how he had the most HRs at the youngest age, and how he will break the single season record. It's never about a desire to help anyone win - it's only about what he stands to accomplish.

There's a reason that a guy as successful as him, at only 31, has been a member of 3 teams and is not a franchise player somewhere. It's because an ego like that is a problem. And an agent who empowers him and serves only to encourage and perpetuate that attitude compounds the issue.

Would I like to have him? Boy - those #s would sure help! But they can also cause damage when they mean more to the player and are more about the player, than they are the team.

I'm a fan of the White Sox. I root for the laundry.

getonbckthr
11-02-2007, 11:49 AM
I believe Mark Buerhle and Jermaine Dye both said when re-signed that a factor for settling for less was "Kenny has something big on the way!" Well it doesn't get any bigger than Alex Rodriguez!

SBSoxFan
11-02-2007, 12:02 PM
I believe Mark Buerhle and Jermaine Dye both said when re-signed that a factor for settling for less was "Kenny has something big on the way!" Well it doesn't get any bigger than Alex Rodriguez!

That's no different than Torre being told the Dodgers would sign ARod. In fact, no one knew ARod would opt out at that point. I hope KW is able to fulfill whatever plan he shared with those guys. I also hope they aren't disappointed if it isn't executed verbatim.

wdelaney72
11-02-2007, 12:44 PM
Nobody "knew" but it seemed pretty obvious to me that since he had the ability lock up signifficantly more "guaranteed" money he would opt out.

The only people it wasn't obvious for are the blind Yankee fans who thinks everyone wants to go into the hall of fame wearing "the pinstripes".

... and that's a quote from a Yankee fan I work with :rolleyes:

SBSoxFan
11-02-2007, 12:48 PM
Nobody "knew" but it seemed pretty obvious to me that since he had the ability lock up signifficantly more "guaranteed" money he would opt out.

The only people it wasn't obvious for are the blind Yankee fans who thinks everyone wants to go into the hall of fame wearing "the pinstripes".

... and that's a quote from a Yankee fan I work with :rolleyes:

It's still hindsight. KW might have told MB and JD that he would go after ARod if ARod opted out. Anything beyond that would have been hyperbole.

Maybe it's more likely that KW shared his long-term plan with them, and sold them on it and the fact that they would be cornerstones in a quick turnaround.

drewcifer
11-02-2007, 12:51 PM
I am more inclined to think that KW was talking about the exact OPPOSITE of A-Rod when he's talking about some big things coming. I could be wrong. But it wouldn't make sense to encourage some of your due, veteran players to re-sign and take a discount to make way for a mercenary ball-player like A-Rod (i.e. - take less and stick around so we have the $ to buy a ticket in the A-Rod sweepstakes).

I don't buy it.

wdelaney72
11-02-2007, 01:09 PM
I agree, drewcifer.

spiffie
11-02-2007, 03:17 PM
I am more inclined to think that KW was talking about the exact OPPOSITE of A-Rod when he's talking about some big things coming. I could be wrong. But it wouldn't make sense to encourage some of your due, veteran players to re-sign and take a discount to make way for a mercenary ball-player like A-Rod (i.e. - take less and stick around so we have the $ to buy a ticket in the A-Rod sweepstakes).

I don't buy it.
I totally see how telling guys you're going to try to add the best player in baseball would be the sort of thing that encourages them to leave.

drewcifer
11-02-2007, 03:30 PM
I totally see how telling guys you're going to try to add the best player in baseball would be the sort of thing that encourages them to leave.

I didn't say it encourages them to leave. What I suggested is that it's hard for me to believe that players like Mark and JD, who fulfilled their obligations and proven their worth, are asked to put up the same performance or better for less than they deserve, so they can MAYBE bring in someone else - that someone being A-Rod.

spiffie
11-02-2007, 03:41 PM
I didn't say it encourages them to leave. What I suggested is that it's hard for me to believe that players like Mark and JD, who fulfilled their obligations and proven their worth, are asked to put up the same performance or better for less than they deserve, so they can MAYBE bring in someone else - that someone being A-Rod.
I'm sure Kenny didn't specifically name any names as the one guy they promise to sign. Everyone knows the score about who's available though.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if he talked to them as men and asked them what's more important to them. Do they want an extra million or two yearly, or do they want to stay here with the promise that Kenny will actively pursue people who will make the team better for next season? Both of them likely knew that any impact player the Sox sign will be making more than either of them yearly, especially if they pursued a signing like Rodriguez. Even Hunter would likely make more. Hell, Rowand might make more than Dye wherever he signs.

drewcifer
11-02-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm sure Kenny didn't specifically name any names as the one guy they promise to sign. Everyone knows the score about who's available though.

True, and A-Rod was not one of them.

Of course asking for the home town discount for the good of the team happened. That's the whole reason for asking. And certainly they all knew people would be coming in and probably making more than them if they agreed. I never suggested either one of them was that petty or selfish.

But telling them to forgo the "1 or 2 million a year more" as you put it, so you can pay another guy $30M+ a year? Kenny may have said, "I'm going to make a hard push for Torii/Aaron and another position player and/or BP help and it's going to take $30M or so to do it" but all that $ on one guy, I don't believe would have kept them off the market.

Flight #24
11-02-2007, 04:45 PM
True, and A-Rod was not one of them.

Of course asking for the home town discount for the good of the team happened. That's the whole reason for asking. And certainly they all knew people would be coming in and probably making more than them if they agreed. I never suggested either one of them was that petty or selfish.

But telling them to forgo the "1 or 2 million a year more" as you put it, so you can pay another guy $30M+ a year? Kenny may have said, "I'm going to make a hard push for Torii/Aaron and another position player and/or BP help and it's going to take $30M or so to do it" but all that $ on one guy, I don't believe would have kept them off the market.

"You guys are all about winning and so am I. I plan on making a big push to sign the best player in baseball, and an impact guy at a real need position. But the only way I can do it is if I have a bit of additional salary flexibility. So I'm asking you if you guys are willing to take less so that I can pay more to a guy who'll help lead us to more titles."

I don't doubt for a second that either Buehrle or Dye would agree that ARod deserves to make a lot more than them.

Frater Perdurabo
11-02-2007, 05:30 PM
It's still hindsight. KW might have told MB and JD that he would go after ARod if ARod opted out. Anything beyond that would have been hyperbole.

Maybe it's more likely that KW shared his long-term plan with them, and sold them on it and the fact that they would be cornerstones in a quick turnaround.

My pure speculation is that KW told Buehrle that he wanted Ichiro. Then Ichiro re-signed with the Mariners during the season.

The Real Me
11-04-2007, 09:47 PM
Arod was never coming here. It was pipe dream in 2000 and it's a pipe dream today. We need a bullpen, a CF and a 2B before we can worry about contending in '08.

JermaineDye05
11-04-2007, 10:36 PM
Arod was never coming here. It was pipe dream in 2000 and it's a pipe dream today. We need a bullpen, a CF and a 2B before we can worry about contending in '08.

Give Danny Richar a chance, I really think he's the future 2B of this team.

eastchicagosoxfan
11-06-2007, 06:57 PM
I think the Sox sign Rodriguez. I agree with the posters in regards to their comments on the contracts of Dye and Buerhle. I also think Reinsdorf wants to leave with the best chance to win it all again. How much time does this ownership group have left? Reinsdorf is 72. Will this group sell before they're all really old men? If the answer is yes, how much affect will the payroll have on the sale price? Some, certainly, but not enough to significantly reduce the price. So, is there a huge difference between $120 and $160 million in salaries? One more thought. When Reinsdorf bought this team in 1980, Chicago was a Sox town. On Reinsdorf's watch, it changed. A World Series title certainly helped tilt the scales back, more work needs to be done. Signing Alex Rodriguez would be a huge step in that direction. Now of course that statement assumes ( I write that with all the inherent risks assumption comes with ) Rodriguez continues to be the same player he's been. But if the Sox are committed to a higher payroll, because they plan on selling anyway, they can afford the risk/reward factor Rodriguez brings.

Nellie_Fox
11-07-2007, 12:12 AM
So, is there a huge difference between $120 and $160 million in salaries? Just a 33% increase, that's all.

But if the Sox are committed to a higher payroll, because they plan on selling anyway, they can afford the risk/reward factor Rodriguez brings.Going to a higher payroll when you're trying to sell a team is backwards; you're tying the hands of new ownership, and they'll pay you less because they are committed to paying the higher payroll. However, there is no evidence that the Sox ownership is considering selling.

spiffie
11-07-2007, 11:00 AM
Just a 33% increase, that's all.

Going to a higher payroll when you're trying to sell a team is backwards; you're tying the hands of new ownership, and they'll pay you less because they are committed to paying the higher payroll. However, there is no evidence that the Sox ownership is considering selling.
I don't think you can make the argument simply that "new owners will pay less due to higher payroll." If you have added marketable assets, players who by their performance on the field and their impact on other revenue streams are likely to increase the cash flow by an amount greater than the payroll increase, wouldn't you have made the team more appealing to a prospective buyer? If you could reasonably argue that the $30 million spent on A-Rod yearly would lead on average to $100 million more in yearly revenue (not saying that is the case, purely arguing a hypothetical) wouldn't that be more desireable?

eastchicagosoxfan
11-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Just a 33% increase, that's all.

Going to a higher payroll when you're trying to sell a team is backwards; you're tying the hands of new ownership, and they'll pay you less because they are committed to paying the higher payroll. However, there is no evidence that the Sox ownership is considering selling.
I don't see the Cubs' payroll scaring off potential suitors. In regards to a potential sale, it doesn't have to be imminent. Hypothetically speaking, if Rodriguez was signed for 10 years, would a sale be more likely eight years into the contract? Will this current group headed by Reinsdorf maintain ownership for another decade? I think with the signing of Uribe today, it's all a moot point. Rodriguez will play in Chicago, as a visitor.