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View Full Version : Is this offseason Do-or-Die for Kenny?


Domeshot17
10-28-2007, 01:12 AM
Friend brought this up and I thought it would make a good WSI discussion (if we can keep it clean and outta the house).

Williams has always been a gambler, and it paid off big in 2005. However in 2006 he failed to make the move before the deadline to get us over the hump as we faded out, and built a mess in 2007. How much rope does he have left? My initial reaction was hey, 2007 was a lot of wrong, injuries especially. But isn't it HIS job to not rely on an opening day OF of 3 injury prone players? Isn't it his job when these hard throwing control lacking relievers struggle to make a trade or 2 and get someone here who can.

These are moves we made last year and a lot are questionable.

The Freddy trade I won't argue. Freddy was out all of the year, so getting Gavin and Gio for him was good.

But its the little moves. We dealt Mackowiak and replaced him with Andy Gonzalez. We had 5-7 guys on our team who probably don't ever belong in the majors again. When we struggled early, we looked to likes of Dewon Day to steady the bullpen. The entire season was just bad.

Most GMs who run out a 100 mil payroll that looks like this would be in a world of trouble with their fans. We saw Boston do this last year, just have a miserable season, and make the gutsy moves to (what appears a lock) win the world series.

I dont know if we have that in us, but now that is Kenny Williams call. We never seem to be major players in the free agent market, don't remember the last big name we got via FA. We seem to do well with small castoff guys like AJ, Dye (who turned out big) El Duque, but then we strike out with guys like Erstad doing the same thing. Our minors is very shakey, we have 4-5 young pitchers who look promising, but not one hitter who we feel any confidence in as a hitter outside of Fields.

We always hear about Kennys big 3 year board, but it seems like since 2005 someone took a sledge hammer to it. I like Kenny, and he has the guts a lot of GMs dont to make a big trade in feb-march. But we consistently are missing out on the top free agents and our Drafts and minor leagues have been very questionable. Is this it for Kenny? If we look at another sub 80 win season (or could we even live with winning 83 and finishing 3rd?) should he be gone? We don't give the players who have been mediocre since 2005 much slack anymore, calling for the heads of Uribe, Widger, Cotts etc etc, when do we hold KW responsible too.


I think this is a HUGE offseason for him, and personally think it is put up or shut up time. Every year we hear about championships. We hear about that winning is the only option attitude. We even have the guts to call our drafting strategy "only drafting championship calibur players". Well if you talk big, and you spend big, you better produce big. I really don't care if its Brian Anderson, Andruw Jones, Hunter Rowand or Owens in CF. Arod or Uribe or Eckstein or Renteria at SS. I just want to win. Personally I think we need a CF-SS-3 RP- and 3-4 bench players. One of those we need for sure is a veteran 2b who can back up or start because we don't know about Richar yet. I think we NEED to start developing better, because you watch the Red Sox, and as much as they spend, Ellsbury and Pedroia and Youklis are (I believe) all home grown. Colorado is really home grown.

Maybe 1 year isnt enough time to turn it around, but man, it should not be this bad. I think this year Kenny has to be on the hot seat and this if going to be the biggest offseason of his career. Hopefully that means admitting certain players are not as good as he believed, and winning, at whatever the cost may be.

oeo
10-28-2007, 01:25 AM
Jerry Reinsdorf won't fire him, that's all I know.

I think the only way Kenny is gone is if he steps down, or Jerry sells the team.

If it were my call, I'd give him a few more years. Let's see if they really are going to focus on improving the farm system, what Kenny is going to do to fix the mess, etc. Don't forget that a lot went wrong this past year...everything that possibly could, did.

DSpivack
10-28-2007, 01:34 AM
Probably moreso than any other offseason recently, 2005 saw the greatest turnover in personnel. I think this offseason will be somewhat similar. Certainly there weren't great expectations by most (moreso outside the South Side) for a team that shed Maggs, El Caballo, and heck even the 'stache himself, Manos. Signing a veteran OF who had been injured several times, selecting a seemingly overweight minor league pitcher off waivers, signing a veteran journeyman reliever, signing an unknown second baseman from Japan, a previously hated rival catcher, and other moves all may not have been the "sexy" thing to do, but they all were key components of what would become world series champions. No one could have predicted that.

My eyes remain open, and I trust KW to do what he thinks best. I think he's certainly willing to do whatever it takes, and has a lot of passion for his job. Also, I think Reinsdorf really trusts KW to do his job and gives him plenty of leeway. Because of that, I don't necessarily think it's a do-or-die year. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of difficult decisions ahead. Worst-case scenario, I think he could be gone in two years. Of course, we already saw a best-case scenario two years ago. It certainly will be an interesting offseason.

AJ Hellraiser
10-28-2007, 01:55 AM
Depending on how much he turns the roster over will depend how many years he has left...

We can't reasonably expect for another major overhaul leading to a World Series title ala 2005....

I say he has a 3-year window unless things continue to get worse instead of improve...

If by 2010 we aren't contending for a championship again then it's probably time to bring someone new in....

That being said, I have a lot of faith that KW will get this turned around quick.... I firmly believe that he and Ozzie want to win just as bad as us fans do..

Boondock Saint
10-28-2007, 02:28 AM
Don't forget that a lot went wrong this past year...everything that possibly could, did.

I think that some people may forget this from time to time. I know I have on occasion. But the Sox won a World Series in 2005 and won 90 games in 2006. One season went really, really bad, but he has done a lot for this team.

WhiteSox5187
10-28-2007, 02:38 AM
A couple of things, first off Kenny Williams is never going to be fired. JR just doesn't fire people, he's only fired Larry Himes and Roland Hemond and firing Roland Hemond allowed the entire organization to be screwed up for about ten years.

Secondly, Kenny is ALWAYS going to be the guy who brough the White Sox their first title since 1917 and for that I will always admire him and love him.

Finally, I have NO FAITH in Kenny Williams. He's the type of GM who gambles and either wins big or loses big, well, out of the seven years we've had him as GM he's one once. And lost big twice (2002, 2007) and been mediocre at best every other year. Seven years in between playoff appearances is just unacceptable to me. When you look at how we won in 2005 he claimed it was because "Well, we put more of an emphasis on starting pitching and defense," I'm sorry, but this JUST OCCURED TO YOU??? YOU JUST FIGURED OUT PITCHING AND DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS???? What in God's name were you doing the previous five years?? Does anyone remember after the 2002 season he said that he figured his team's offense would be enough to overplay the fact that the defense leaked more than the Titanic? I was 15 in 2002 and I read that and thought "Oh my God, this man is a moron if he really thinks that..." Now, I'm willing to give Kenny a second chance here in 2008, I think that this is a weakened division and a lineup that features PK, Thome and Dye in the middle of it and a pitching rotation consisting of Buerhle, Javy and Garland is a team that DOES have qualities required in winning. But if we have another 90+ loss year, he ought to be fired no questions asked. If we have another year like 2004-2003 where we win 85 games or so he SHOULD be in serious jeorpardy of losing his job and he probably will have lost the fanbase. If we win 90 but fail to make the playoffs his job will be safe, as well it probably should be. Another playoff appearence buys him another two years before I call for his head again...publicly.

WhiteSox5187
10-28-2007, 02:42 AM
I think that some people may forget this from time to time. I know I have on occasion. But the Sox won a World Series in 2005 and won 90 games in 2006. One season went really, really bad, but he has done a lot for this team.
The problem with that statement is it is starting at 2005. Kenny deserves a lot of credit for 2005 and I will always love him for that. But this is the same guy who put together the monstroity that was the 2002 White Sox and designed the corpse-ball White Sox of 2003-2004. Not to mention 2007. He did a great job in 2005 (but if you gamble enough you're going to win at least ONE hand of poker) and a good job in 2006 (though he stood inexplicably pat at the deadline) and an awful job in 2007. How much did he do in the years from 2001-2005? I would say not well...I'd give him a D for those years...so...take from that what you will.

ChiSoxFan35
10-28-2007, 03:01 AM
It should be. He has 100 mill to play with. Many other 100 mill teams consider it a failure to get knocked out of the playoffs early. We fought to avoid last. And it wasn't even close, the season ended very early.

Do I think it will be? No. At the end of the year Reinsdorf was on the radio saying he thought it was Kenny's best offseason :|

As far as a lot of things going wrong :\, injuries are part of the game, if you have no major injuries, a lot went right for you. This is not considering having players with a history of injury. Pablo getting hurt, weird, freak thing. Erstad and Crede? Not so much. Relievers who couldn't cut it in KC getting lit up? Shocking!

LITTLE NELL
10-28-2007, 10:02 AM
I think that some people may forget this from time to time. I know I have on occasion. But the Sox won a World Series in 2005 and won 90 games in 2006. One season went really, really bad, but he has done a lot for this team.
I agree with you. Cant blame KW for all the injuries. I will blame him for the horrible bullpen and a lousy farm system which I think steps have been taken to improve. JR is very loyal and KW probably is safe for 5yrs or so.

anewman35
10-28-2007, 11:51 AM
The problem with that statement is it is starting at 2005. Kenny deserves a lot of credit for 2005 and I will always love him for that. But this is the same guy who put together the monstroity that was the 2002 White Sox and designed the corpse-ball White Sox of 2003-2004. Not to mention 2007. He did a great job in 2005 (but if you gamble enough you're going to win at least ONE hand of poker) and a good job in 2006 (though he stood inexplicably pat at the deadline) and an awful job in 2007. How much did he do in the years from 2001-2005? I would say not well...I'd give him a D for those years...so...take from that what you will.

I think that maybe your standards are just a bit too high - while none of the 2002-2004 teams were great, none of them were really bad, either. There's plenty of teams out there that would kill for a .500 season. And 2004 in particular was hampered by injuries. If you're going to give him a D for a team that averaged 83.25 wins from 2001-2004 (and 84.85 wins from 2001-2007), that's really really harsh.

Frontman
10-28-2007, 12:11 PM
I agree that KW gets a 3 year window of bad baseball before he's moved. If the Sox are back in the 90+ win column next season, (hell, I'd be happy with over 85 wins after this season) then I think he's back on track. Otherwise, if 2-3 years of bad baseball on the Southside happens, things will change.

I do like the idea that the Sox think long term, and provide stability to build the team on.

TheVulture
10-28-2007, 12:11 PM
Don't forget that a lot went wrong this past year...everything that possibly could, did.

Come on - yeah a lot went wrong, but KW made some serious mistakes - going into the season you've got probably the weakest OF in the AL, even if you expected Dye '06 all over again. The bench was weakened and you had a bullpen full of question marks. By the time guys like Andy Gonzalez were getting considerable playing time, it was obvious the organization was suffering from a definite lack of depth. Since KW's been in charge a few years now, you'd have to blame him for that lack of depth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for his head, but I sure as hell hope he's learned some serious lessons.

Lip Man 1
10-28-2007, 12:57 PM
As others have stated, because of the very close relationship between JR and Kenny and his family, he will not be fired.

However Kenny has enough self - honesty to understand that if he feels he isn't or can't do the job, he'll resign. He has that much pride in himself and respect for JR.

As I stated in my end of the year "report" for want of a better word, Kenny has won a World Series and he's had one losing and one non-winning season in seven years on the job.

Both deserve to be strongly noted.

On the flip side it must also be noted that despite the accomplishments, he's made the post season one time...that's less than a number of teams in MLB despite working in a 'major' market.

Nothing is going to happen now, but another year or two like the 2007 season, particularly if the fans start leaving in droves and attendance continues to drop, the parties involved will certainly start examining the possibility of a change.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
10-28-2007, 03:01 PM
I think that maybe your standards are just a bit too high - while none of the 2002-2004 teams were great, none of them were really bad, either. There's plenty of teams out there that would kill for a .500 season. And 2004 in particular was hampered by injuries. If you're going to give him a D for a team that averaged 83.25 wins from 2001-2004 (and 84.85 wins from 2001-2007), that's really really harsh.
83 and 84 wins is the definition of mediocrity to me. I'm not willing to settle for mediocrity. Granted 2004 was an injury plagued season but even without the injuries I'm not so sure we could have caught the Twins (we coudln't in '03). I think at best Kenny is a mediocre GM and I'm not willing to settle for mediocrity.

wassagstdu
10-28-2007, 03:32 PM
It may not be do-or-die for Williams, but I think it is for the Sox. They need to at least contend until the end of September. If they are out of it early, I am afraid they will have given back everything they gained in 2005 and be back to their diehard base. A lot of fans like to identify with "They might have beaten the 1927 Yankees." Not so many with "Do a 'White Sox'," meaning collapse completely after one freak year.

I say that because I don't see much long-term future for this team and the farm seems dry. If they go back to pre-2005 revenue there will be no chance to rebuild quickly.

gregory18n
10-28-2007, 03:35 PM
boston spent... we need to stop talking like a second class city. i want us to go get hunter and carl crawford; keep garland & crede; possibly upgrade the middle infield (does anyone have suggestions?). middle relievers are a crap shoot, bring in some attitude. owens & fields off the bench works for me. then we can follow-up boston again.

Mod edit: "Crap" is not a filtered word, but you apparently thought it was. Don't try to avoid the language filters!

PaleHoseGeorge
10-28-2007, 04:23 PM
It's not do or die for Kenny Williams. It is probably do or die for several of the everyday players and perhaps several of the pitchers.

KW has made it clear he sees this club as being championship-worthy, and I agree. It's essentially the same team that won 99 games and a world championship just 2 years ago.

However they're now 2 years older. I doubt KW will try winning with this same bunch in 2009 if they don't show something in 2008.

TDog
10-28-2007, 05:04 PM
boston spent... we need to stop talking like a second class city. i want us to go get hunter and carl crawford; ....

I look at the Carl Crawford love around here the way some people see the Aaron Rowand love. Crawford is a loser. He is talented athletically, but he is not a smart baseball player, and he loses games with mistakes on the bases and on defense. Yet, fans of every team in need of improvement talk about wanting him because of the numbers he puts up. And because of the numbers he puts up, he has fans in Tampa Bay. He hasn't yet begun earning the big bucks (which he'll get because of his numbers), so the DRays don't have to pay him what they would have to pay a comparable outfielder. To get him now, a team would have to give up more than he would bring the team in return because the DRays aren't looking to get rid of him. When Crawford becomes a free agent, he will become a drain on some team's resources, not helping them win while looking good on paper.

More ridiculous than the Crawford love, though, are the suggested deals proposed by fans who want to bring Crawford to their team (I hear it on Giants radio, too.)

FarWestChicago
10-28-2007, 05:33 PM
I think at best Kenny is a mediocre GM and I'm not willing to settle for mediocrity.It would be nice if you would apply those same standards to your posting. :wink:

MISoxfan
10-28-2007, 06:55 PM
I look at the Carl Crawford love around here the way some people see the Aaron Rowand love. Crawford is a loser. He is talented athletically, but he is not a smart baseball player, and he loses games with mistakes on the bases and on defense. Yet, fans of every team in need of improvement talk about wanting him because of the numbers he puts up. And because of the numbers he puts up, he has fans in Tampa Bay. He hasn't yet begun earning the big bucks (which he'll get because of his numbers), so the DRays don't have to pay him what they would have to pay a comparable outfielder. To get him now, a team would have to give up more than he would bring the team in return because the DRays aren't looking to get rid of him. When Crawford becomes a free agent, he will become a drain on some team's resources, not helping them win while looking good on paper.

More ridiculous than the Crawford love, though, are the suggested deals proposed by fans who want to bring Crawford to their team (I hear it on Giants radio, too.)

A .300 hitter with a .350 OBP and 50 SB a year doesn't help you win?

TDog
10-28-2007, 07:13 PM
A .300 hitter with a .350 OBP and 50 SB a year doesn't help you win?

It might help you win in a fantasy league, but real baseball isn't about statistics.

DumpJerry
10-28-2007, 08:37 PM
To answer the thread title: No. Not close.

Brian26
10-28-2007, 08:41 PM
It would be nice if you would apply those same standards to your posting. :wink:

LOL :thumbsup:

fquaye149
10-28-2007, 09:30 PM
It would be nice if you would apply those same standards to your posting. :wink:

Bravo!

When you look at how we won in 2005 he claimed it was because "Well, we put more of an emphasis on starting pitching and defense," I'm sorry, but this JUST OCCURED TO YOU??? YOU JUST FIGURED OUT PITCHING AND DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS???? What in God's name were you doing the previous five years??

the amount of ignorance and revisionist history in this post boggles the mind!

WhiteSox5187
10-29-2007, 12:59 AM
It would be nice if you would apply those same standards to your posting. :wink:
Why set myself apart from the rest of the pack?

JB98
10-29-2007, 01:45 AM
It's not do or die for Kenny Williams. It is probably do or die for several of the everyday players and perhaps several of the pitchers.

KW has made it clear he sees this club as being championship-worthy, and I agree. It's essentially the same team that won 99 games and a world championship just 2 years ago.

However they're now 2 years older. I doubt KW will try winning with this same bunch in 2009 if they don't show something in 2008.

Essentially the same club? Jenks is the only holdover from the 2005 bullpen. Iguchi, Rowand and Everett, all gone. Pods likely to be shown the door soon, possibly Uribe as well. Garcia and El Duque, gone. The entire bench from 2005, gone except for a crippled-up Ozuna.

There are still some key core players here who were here in 2005. Buehrle, Garland, Contreras (will he ever be the same?), Jenks, Crede (will he ever be the same?), Konerko, AJ and Dye. But our supporting cast around those guys is very different and so very, very weak.

To me, the bottom half of our roster is an abomination. That's the problem. There are still some really good players here, but once you start looking at roster spots 13 through 25, you just shake your head at the lack of quality.

RockJock07
10-29-2007, 02:53 AM
A .300 hitter with a .350 OBP and 50 SB a year doesn't help you win?

I have wanted Carl Crawford for years now. Speed wins, so many more options present themselves when you have speed. I didn't watch to many TB games this season, but he's a very talented player and one that would help ANY team.

Pods was money in 05 and created so many runs for us and often times the sox would go into the bottom of the 1st and be up 1-0 because of what he did. the Sox need a leadoff man, if i'm Kenny i pick up the phone for CC.

As far as Kenny goes, this off-season, as every one, is important. there are major questions everywhere. I hope that during this season he was starting to plan this off-season. Now that the WS is over, the real fun begins, i hope Kenny can get this turned around.

SBSoxFan
10-29-2007, 10:02 AM
the amount of ignorance and revisionist history in this post boggles the mind!

Or maybe it's short-term memory loss. So many claims of ineptitude boggle my mind, that they're too numerous to comment on.

I have no argument that 2007 sucked, and the team lacks depth. Other than that? :rolleyes:

gregory18n
10-29-2007, 11:53 AM
My earlier post stated what i would like Williams to do, sorry. To answer the post, Williams will be fine because he'll do very little, thus saving JR his wallet, though preventing the Big Return that Boston just experienced.

FloridaSox
10-29-2007, 12:31 PM
Kenny still thinks the 2005 team can the World Series again. I do not. They are older and their pitching has declined.

fquaye149
10-29-2007, 01:26 PM
Kenny still thinks the 2005 team can the World Series again. I do not. They are older and their pitching has declined.

huh?

russ99
10-29-2007, 01:29 PM
This is a big offseason for Kenny.

Despite all those "GM forever" posts, if the Sox don't become either a contending team or at least a more enjoyable team to watch next season, I'm convinced that attendance will drastically fall off.

If that happens, especially with a large payroll, I can't see how Jerry wouldn't be a lot more open to change at both GM or manager.

That said, I think Kenny was a bit too high on the horse after winning the series, and after this season's debacle he's got a little humility back. I have no doubts that he'll do a great job this offseason.

spiffie
10-29-2007, 03:21 PM
This is a big offseason for Kenny.

Despite all those "GM forever" posts, if the Sox don't become either a contending team or at least a more enjoyable team to watch next season, I'm convinced that attendance will drastically fall off.

If that happens, especially with a large payroll, I can't see how Jerry wouldn't be a lot more open to change at both GM or manager.

That said, I think Kenny was a bit too high on the horse after winning the series, and after this season's debacle he's got a little humility back. I have no doubts that he'll do a great job this offseason.
The manager will go before the GM if the Bulls are any indication of how Reinsdorf works. How many coaches worked under Jerry Krause?

FarWestChicago
10-29-2007, 07:27 PM
Why set myself apart from the rest of the pack?Not bad. :thumbsup:

santo=dorf
10-29-2007, 10:28 PM
A .300 hitter with a .350 OBP and 50 SB a year doesn't help you win?
Crawford has played 5 full seasons and only once has he crack the .350 OBP plateau (which isn't that impressive anyways) ONCE, and that was this past season when it was .355.

I'd gladly take him over Owens, but he's not worth the hype or cost.

getonbckthr
10-29-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm failing to see where KW made a mistake last year.
-Mccarthy Trade/ A win for Kenny
-Garcia Trade/ A win for Kenny
-Bullpen did anyone truly expect Thornton and Macdougal to struggle as they did? Now the other guys sure you can critique Kenny there but the bullpen is always a crapshoot, 05 we threw money on RED and hit, 06-07 we bet RED again and the numbers came up 00.
-Podsednik 05 was healthy we succeeded, 06 he was hurt we didn't make the playoffs. 07 hurt again and we sucked. 08 he is gone.
-Erstad I didn't love the deal but I understood it. It didn't work because of injury not talent.
-Who expected Crede to miss 90% of the season? Who expected Dye, PK and a host of others to completely suck?
In my eyes Kenny Williams put together a team capable of winning, the players on the other hand didn't perform. At what point do the players start getting held responsible? Everyone piles on Kenny, Ozzie and Walker what about the talent playing like ****?

Lip Man 1
10-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Geton:

A number of posters on this site as I recall had major reservations about the entire bullpen situation back in March including Flight I believe.

Lip

getonbckthr
10-29-2007, 10:52 PM
Geton:

A number of posters on this site as I recall had major reservations about the entire bullpen situation back in March including Flight I believe.

Lip
True but were Macdougal and Thornton included in those concerns? How many teams truly go into a season saying, "Hey you know what our pen is running 7 deep!"

santo=dorf
10-29-2007, 11:24 PM
I'm failing to see where KW made a mistake last year.
-Mccarthy Trade/ A win for Kenny
-Garcia Trade/ A win for Kenny
-Bullpen did anyone truly expect Thornton and Macdougal to struggle as they did? Now the other guys sure you can critique Kenny there but the bullpen is always a crapshoot, 05 we threw money on RED and hit, 06-07 we bet RED again and the numbers came up 00.
-Podsednik 05 was healthy we succeeded, 06 he was hurt we didn't make the playoffs. 07 hurt again and we sucked. 08 he is gone.
-Erstad I didn't love the deal but I understood it. It didn't work because of injury not talent.
-Who expected Crede to miss 90% of the season? Who expected Dye, PK and a host of others to completely suck?
In my eyes Kenny Williams put together a team capable of winning, the players on the other hand didn't perform. At what point do the players start getting held responsible? Everyone piles on Kenny, Ozzie and Walker what about the talent playing like ****?
McCarthy put up better numbers than Danks, and Masset will be gone. Doesn't look like a complete winner to me now, but it's too early to give this trade a final grade.
KW said he would not trade a starter unless the return package benefited the major league team. That did not happen in the Garcia trade.
Erstad is washed up and injury prone. You can't complain about earthquake damages when you build your house on a fault. I suppose if the Sox sign Prior next year and he sat on the DL it would just be some kind of event of bad luck?
Ray Charles could see Crede's back injury coming, and he's been dead for awhile now. Go back and search. There were plenty of red flags thrown when Crede refused to get surgery.

The 2007 team sucked plain and simple because they had bad players, relied on injury prone players, and some big boppers didn't match numbers from their previous season.
EDIT: Hell, I was just talking about the offense. I completely forgot to mention the "efforts" by our bullpen and Jose Contreras

thomas35forever
10-29-2007, 11:29 PM
Last offseason, we expected KW to pull off the big moves and make us a contender again. He went under the radar and 2007 flopped. Don't expect him to sign any big names this offseason either. The only big player I could see him realistically signing is Rowand, but don't expect him to be back on the South Side. I don't know what he's going to do, but I agree with posters who say his credibility depends on what he does over the next four months.

misty60481
10-30-2007, 10:28 AM
I dont think JR will ever fire Williams but he might give him another position in the organization and bring in another GM to try and turn things around if we are as bad as last year and attendance goes down. This offseason is a big one for KW if he cant pick up some players who can make a difference I look for a drop in attendance. I know we complain about bandwagon fans but they still spend there money. 3 of my garandsons--ages 12-15-- are Sox fans, mainly because of me but I noticed them losing interest late in the year. I remember one particular night when the Sox had I think Cintron, Gonzales and Owens coming up they all went outside and said call them when Thome come up to bat. We dont want to lose our young fanbase.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2007, 01:45 PM
Geton:

I can only speak for myself but I know I had reservations about Thornton based on the fact that he had one good year in MLB, 2006... yet he was being talked about like he was a guy with a history of success.

I think I may have called him something to the effect of 'the best candidate to become the next Cliff Pollitte / Neil Cotts...' (i.e. one fluke season.)

I know others overall brought up the fact that so many of these guys had mediocre numbers with a history of wildness and walks in both the minor and major leagues.

Lip