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Hitmen77
10-27-2007, 12:31 AM
Gonzalez reports that Crede has been "cleared for all baseball activity."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071026sox,1,6279093.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Now it'll be interesting to see what happens with arbitration or his negotiated '08 contract. His defense was sorely missed by the Sox this year. I hope for the team's sake that he's healthy and remains with the Sox.

Steelrod
10-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Cleared by who?
His agent, his doctor, or team doctor?

Brian26
10-27-2007, 02:53 PM
Cleared by who?
His agent, his doctor, or team doctor?

Or his doctor in Vienna, Austria. :D:

chisox77
10-27-2007, 03:21 PM
I would like Crede to stay. The White Sox need his excellent defense and timely hitting. With a few decent moves, the Sox could come back strong and actually be a deep team as well (with position players).

:cool:

gregory18n
10-27-2007, 10:46 PM
keep crede, absolutely! 3rd was a huge drop-off from the previous years, and keep fields as a multi-positional role player.

JermaineDye05
10-28-2007, 10:26 PM
keep crede, absolutely! 3rd was a huge drop-off from the previous years, and keep fields as a multi-positional role player.

Fields is a starter, not a sub. Trade Crede, I'm sure the Sox can get a lot for him if he can prove he's healthy. Fields for a whole season at 3rd won't be bad, I only see his numbers getting better.

ND_Sox_Fan
10-28-2007, 11:27 PM
keep crede, absolutely! 3rd was a huge drop-off from the previous years, and keep fields as a multi-positional role player.

Are you talking about Josh Fields or Pablo Ozuna?

Josh Fields is an every-day player; just need to find him a spot ... I wouldn't mind a rotation where he, Dye, and Crede rotate between the DH and 3B and OF spots when facing a LHP (Crede of course doesn't go to the OF). If this offense is really going to change, another option includes trading Thome and move one into more of a permanent DH role.

Frater Perdurabo
10-29-2007, 07:21 AM
Josh Fields is an every-day player; just need to find him a spot ... I wouldn't mind a rotation where he, Dye, and Crede rotate between the DH and 3B and OF spots when facing a LHP (Crede of course doesn't go to the OF). If this offense is really going to change, another option includes trading Thome and move one into more of a permanent DH role.

Here's a general plan that keeps Thome and Crede fresh, while giving those two plus Fields plenty of ABs.

v. LHP: Crede 3B, Fields DH (Thome PH when RHP relieves starter)

v. RHP, when a GB pitcher (MB, JG, Danks, etc.) starts: Crede 3B, Thome DH

v. RHP, when K pitcher (Vazquez/Contreras) starts: Fields 3B, Thome DH

Fields also can relieve Paulie at 1B once or twice monthly, and play LF occasionally. Basically, Fields becomes the "super-sub," playing several positions to keep his bat in the lineup most of the time. This also keeps LF open for a legitimate leadoff hitter and keeps Crede's defense at 3B most of the time.

Sargeant79
10-29-2007, 10:01 AM
Here's a general plan that keeps Thome and Crede fresh, while giving those two plus Fields plenty of ABs.

v. LHP: Crede 3B, Fields DH (Thome PH when RHP relieves starter)

v. RHP, when a GB pitcher (MB, JG, Danks, etc.) starts: Crede 3B, Thome DH

v. RHP, when K pitcher (Vazquez/Contreras) starts: Fields 3B, Thome DH

Fields also can relieve Paulie at 1B once or twice monthly, and play LF occasionally. Basically, Fields becomes the "super-sub," playing several positions to keep his bat in the lineup most of the time. This also keeps LF open for a legitimate leadoff hitter and keeps Crede's defense at 3B most of the time.

My dad and I were discussing the possiblility of just about the exact same arrangement a few months ago. I really think it would be a good idea to at least start the season like this. It would allow Jerry Owens to be a 4th OF/LF option if a viable leadoff hitter isn't acquired as a shortstop. It would allow for some great late-inning pinch hitting options on the bench...you'd have one of Thome, Fields, or Crede available every game. And for those who would object to having Thome's bat out of the lineup once or twice a week, remember that he is brutal against lefthanders.

Most importantly, I really think it would be the best way to handle Crede in his walk year since there is so much uncertainty surrounding his health. You can play him to start the year and see how things shape up. If he gets hurt, Fields is already up and hopefull in rhythm. If Crede does well, continue with the current arrangment in a pennant race or move him at the trade deadline if they are out of the race.

Frater Perdurabo
10-29-2007, 12:51 PM
My dad and I were discussing the possiblility of just about the exact same arrangement a few months ago.

Let's call it the Sargeant-Frater Plan! :D:

JorgeFabregas
10-29-2007, 04:27 PM
I think you'll only want to use Fields at one or two positions--just keep him in the lineup all the time. He needs to learn left and/or 3B--he doesn't need an additional position to worry about just now.

Sargeant79
10-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Let's call it the Sargeant-Frater Plan! :D:

Giving credit where credit is due... We'd need to call it the Sargeant-Sargeant Sr.-Frater plan. Think Ozzie would go for that name? I could see it being on t-shirts...

balke
10-29-2007, 04:45 PM
I think Kenny and the Sox have made it pretty clear that Fields will be in LF and Crede will be at 3B barring bad negotiations. What Sox fans have to worry about is what happens to CF. With no Pods, there's no leadoff. The Sox might be crazy enough to put him in CF, or even Erstad.

One thing I can say, I'll be quite turned off to this baseball team if they say one more word about grinding, and they come out with:

Erstad
Fields
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynksi
Crede
Richar
Uribe


There is no grinding there. Just old/slow/hr/K. I think right now I wouldn't mind if they resigned Pods, got a good CF and started with Fields being a LF/3B sub. It would give the lineup a lot of flexibility and would give the Sox a leadoff guy, and the ability to make trades if the team is just flat out horrible again.

I can't wait for some more moves by Kenny. Should be an interesting offseason (as many are).

eriqjaffe
10-29-2007, 04:54 PM
One thing I can say, I'll be quite turned off to this baseball team if they say one more word about grinding, and they come out with:

Erstad
Fields
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynksi
Crede
Richar
UribeNo worries there, as Owens will have to replace Erstad in the bottom of the 3rd inning on opening day.

Oh, wait, did I say "no worries"? I meant, "plenty of worries".

gregory18n
10-29-2007, 07:22 PM
At least then you'd have one guy with fresh legs trying to get on before Fields fails in swinging for the fences. That's a lineup that worries me.

Daver
10-29-2007, 07:26 PM
Fields is a starter, not a sub. Trade Crede, I'm sure the Sox can get a lot for him if he can prove he's healthy. Fields for a whole season at 3rd won't be bad, I only see his numbers getting better.

Just so I have this straight, you have a pitching staff that for the most part is going to give up a lot of balls on the ground, and you would rather have a marginal third baseman over a gold glove caliber third baseman?

This ain't fantasy baseball folks.

ode to veeck
10-30-2007, 10:12 AM
Just so I have this straight, you have a pitching staff that for the most part is going to give up a lot of balls on the ground, and you would rather have a marginal third baseman over a gold glove caliber third baseman?

This ain't fantasy baseball folks.

If Crede's healthy, and surgery's improved his back, there's absolutely no ****ing reason you don't want him at 3rd base all season, plain and simple.

Fenway
10-30-2007, 10:13 AM
If Crede's healthy, and surgery's improved his back, there's absolutely no ****ing reason you don't want him at 3rd base all season, plain and simple.

NY Post reporting this morning if the Yankees can't get Mike Lowell, Crede is their second choice.

Dan Mega
10-30-2007, 10:19 AM
NY Post reporting this morning if the Yankees can't get Mike Lowell, Crede is their second choice.

Who would they be looking to move for him?

ode to veeck
10-30-2007, 10:19 AM
The other thing to consider with Crede is they have to sign him outright or get him through arbitration to have him at 3rd in '08, with the Yankees and perhaps even Boston, chomping at the bit on the lookout for a good 3B. The Sox are known for not dealing with Boras if at all possible. On the other hand, Boras' overinflated semi-fictional arbitration submissions have lost much of the time in recent years (something like 11/15 of the last ones); his effectiveness is more by indimidation and bluffing these days.

drewcifer
10-30-2007, 10:33 AM
Who would they be looking to move for him?

Just a guess, but probably Melky.

Aren't the Phillies in the market for a 3B, though? I'd think if the Sox really are looking to shop Joe, a deal with the Phils would make more sense based on mutual need and relationship. Not to start a whole thing but Rowand > Melky, for us.

The Immigrant
10-30-2007, 10:39 AM
Not to start a whole thing but Rowand > Melky, for us.

The Phillies can't trade Rowand - he's a free agent. He also stands to make 25-30x more than Melky Cabrera and would cost us two draft picks.

drewcifer
10-30-2007, 10:42 AM
The Phillies can't trade Rowand - he's a free agent. He also stands to make 25-30x more than Melky Cabrera and would cost us two draft picks.

Damn, you're right. Keep forgetting he's FA....

thepaulbowski
10-30-2007, 12:06 PM
If Crede's healthy, and surgery's improved his back, there's absolutely no ****ing reason you don't want him at 3rd base all season, plain and simple.

That's a pretty big if right now.

Paulwny
11-01-2007, 11:57 AM
NY Post reporting this morning if the Yankees can't get Mike Lowell, Crede is their second choice.

From Newsday--
Sox/yanks had a preliminary discussion concerning Crede.
Small paragraph at the bottom of the article
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/11/01/2007-11-01_mets_target_posada_while_yankees_move_sl-1.html

Rocky Soprano
11-01-2007, 12:08 PM
Crede > Fields. Period.

weareud
11-01-2007, 12:57 PM
Crede > Fields. Period.


Crede IF HEALTHY > Fields


Thats a big if, unfortunelty

FedEx227
11-01-2007, 01:32 PM
I'd be fine taking Melky and possible a bullpen arm for Crede.

INSox56
11-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Crede > Fields. Period.Crede is also > Fields in trade value to the Sox

I'd be fine taking Melky and possible a bullpen arm for Crede.For a one year, bad back rental? dunno if we could swing that..

drewcifer
11-01-2007, 01:55 PM
For a one year, bad back rental? dunno if we could swing that..

One year, bad back rental? He's $5M worth of payroll and a brand new, rested back!

Sorry, but Melky with his spotty hitting and $500K salary as trade isn't close to enough. Should be EASY to swing that.

FedEx227
11-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Remember this is the Yankees we're talking about, and in a couple of week it could be a real desperate team.

With Torre and Don going to LAD, it is very likely Rivera might follow, maybe even Posada. They are not the smartest baseball minds in the world, there's no doubt we can swing Crede for Melky + 1.

drewcifer
11-01-2007, 02:03 PM
Remember this is the Yankees we're talking about, and in a couple of week it could be a real desperate team.

With Torre and Don going to LAD, it is very likely Rivera might follow, maybe even Posada. They are not the smartest baseball minds in the world, there's no doubt we can swing Crede for Melky + 1.

Easily +1, and I'd be asking for more if I'm KW.

I didn't realize, but I heard this morning they're still paying for Pavano! :o:

FedEx227
11-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Easily +1, and I'd be asking for more if I'm KW.

I didn't realize, but I heard this morning they're still paying for Pavano! :o:

And Jaret Wright.

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

Flight #24
11-01-2007, 02:11 PM
Hmmm........fill CF with Melky. Fill a bullpen slot with another of the Yanks prospects All of a sudden you have 1 big hole left to fill and you haven't spent any real $$$ yet (in fact you saved some on what Melky/Prospect cost v. Crede).

FedEx227
11-01-2007, 02:13 PM
Hmmm........fill CF with Melky. Fill a bullpen slot with another of the Yanks prospects All of a sudden you have 1 big hole left to fill and you haven't spent any real $$$ yet (in fact you saved some on what Melky/Prospect cost v. Crede).

Indeed. And then we can really spend the big money and get some great for SS or even LF. Wouldn't mind seeing Fukudome patrol LF next year, or even move him to CF and put Melky in LF.

Praise A-Rod and Scott Boras!

mcfish
11-01-2007, 02:13 PM
If Crede's healthy, and surgery's improved his back, there's absolutely no ****ing reason you don't want him at 3rd base all season, plain and simple.
There are plenty of reasons. How about the ability to trade him now instead of lose him to free agency next year (if Kenny thinks it would come to that)? How about Crede is now a legitimate injury risk, no matter what doctors say and how well the surgery/rehab went? Who plays left when Crede's back goes out again and we move Fields back to 3B?

I know what I would do (trade Crede and play Fields), but I'm not the GM. Kenny can do whatever he thinks is best for the team. But to say there's no reason to let him go is ridiculous.

Paulwny
11-01-2007, 02:14 PM
Here's what a few yank fans think of Crede

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157470

cws05champ
11-01-2007, 02:24 PM
Here's what a few yank fans think of Crede

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157470

Wow...and these are supposed to be fans that know baseball? They are wondering if Crede is any good defensively. Truth is, if played on the east coast he would have won a Gold Glove already.

Gammons Peter
11-01-2007, 02:26 PM
They think they can get him for nothing! Who's gonna register over there and set them straight?

drewcifer
11-01-2007, 02:35 PM
They think they can get him for nothing! Who's gonna register over there and set them straight?

You can count me out. I live in Yankee-land and hear stupid **** like that everyday. Wilson Betemit's defense at 3rd and his monster OBP... :rolleyes:

palehozenychicty
11-01-2007, 02:39 PM
One year, bad back rental? He's $5M worth of payroll and a brand new, rested back!

Sorry, but Melky with his spotty hitting and $500K salary as trade isn't close to enough. Should be EASY to swing that.

Melky is a pretty good CF, who is solid defensively and has a great arm. The Yankees won't give him away for Crede. Unless they're dumb.

drewcifer
11-01-2007, 02:57 PM
Melky is a pretty good CF, who is solid defensively and has a great arm. The Yankees won't give him away for Crede. Unless they're dumb.

He has an awesome arm, that's for sure. Aside from that, his defense/speed/eye is probably average at CF. He's immature and makes lots of mental mistakes.

Crede's GG caliber D at 3rd > Melky's D in CF and they lose nothing in the hitting dept. Betemit as an everyday 3B is going to be a disaster.

soxrme
11-01-2007, 03:16 PM
There are plenty of reasons. How about the ability to trade him now instead of lose him to free agency next year (if Kenny thinks it would come to that)? How about Crede is now a legitimate injury risk, no matter what doctors say and how well the surgery/rehab went? Who plays left when Crede's back goes out again and we move Fields back to 3B?

I know what I would do (trade Crede and play Fields), but I'm not the GM. Kenny can do whatever he thinks is best for the team. But to say there's no reason to let him go is ridiculous.

Yes lets get rid of another all-star player and get prospects in return:angry:
You keep guys like Joe, the trade is all about not dealing with Boras.

mcfish
11-01-2007, 03:51 PM
Yes lets get rid of another all-star player and get prospects in return:angry:
You keep guys like Joe, the trade is all about not dealing with Boras.Did I miss the All Star game featuring Joe Crede?

And I wouldn't do it for the money, I would do it because Joe Crede is now a permanent injury risk. When Joe goes down we're screwed. Unless you want to keep a starter-caliber backup for him on the roster who's use would not affect any other position (i.e. if #2 is Fields, putting him in at 3B can't mean we lose our starting LF), and pay for that luxury, I would trade Joe Crede now and get something for him when we have a young and capable replacement for him.

I read in another thread earlier today that we should get rid of Jon Garland because he's only got one year left on his deal and no one got angry about it. How is this any different? I would argue that the Sox could manage without Joe Crede much easier than they could manage without Garland.

--And yes, on top of the injury risk, this would free up cash. Crede will get $6 million plus and Fields probably makes $500K. I can think of many positions I would like to have $6 million extra to spend on.

AJ Hellraiser
11-01-2007, 03:55 PM
Does anyone know where I can find what Crede hit with runners in scoring position during the 2005 playoffs? thanks!

Rockabilly
11-01-2007, 04:14 PM
Yanks are not going to give up Melky for a guy who is coming off back surgery and is a year away from free agency...

wdelaney72
11-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Under normal circumstances you are correct, but they have ZERO other respectable options at 3B... well, there's always Morgan Ensberg.

Rockabilly
11-01-2007, 04:21 PM
Under normal circumstances you are correct, but they have ZERO other respectable options at 3B... well, there's always Morgan Ensberg.


Miquel Cabrera is on the market as well

Sargeant79
11-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Under normal circumstances you are correct, but they have ZERO other respectable options at 3B... well, there's always Morgan Ensberg.

According to their fans, Wilson Betemit is just as good if not better than Crede.

wdelaney72
11-01-2007, 04:25 PM
Good, I hope they think that way... let them pay Rowand a ridiculous amount of money to play center field while they're at it.

drewcifer
11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
Yanks are not going to give up Melky for a guy who is coming off back surgery and is a year away from free agency...

Meh, your probably right. They'd prefer to wait until he actually is an FA then pay him to have surgery.
http://php.thnt.com/blog01/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/carl.jpg

Hello?

jabrch
11-01-2007, 04:30 PM
According to their fans, Wilson Betemit is just as good if not better than Crede.

In that case they will have happy fans as they will have Betemit.

MetroPD
11-01-2007, 04:38 PM
Speaking of bad backs and Yankees, funny how even Don Mattingly never recovered. I hope the best for Joe, but back problems never go away.

thedudeabides
11-01-2007, 04:51 PM
Yanks are not going to give up Melky for a guy who is coming off back surgery and is a year away from free agency...

I agree. If we trade Joe now, I think people around here are going to be disappointed. If Boras can pry himself away from ARod for a moment, maybe he can convince the Yankees that Joe is healthy. He's done it before.