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Crede_Fan
10-21-2007, 08:40 AM
This time it Paul Byrd. Can't say I would have guessed that one.


Paul Byrd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5468), who pitched the Cleveland Indians (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cle) to the brink of the World Series with a victory in Game 4 of the ALCS on Tuesday, bought nearly $25,000 worth of human growth hormone and syringes, according to a published report.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3072845

ShoelessJoeS
10-21-2007, 08:56 AM
Interesting that ESPN reports this the day of a crucial Game 7....

Scottiehaswheels
10-21-2007, 08:56 AM
Sounds like a psyche job to me.... Someone trying to cause problems within the Indians to announce it at this point.... Look what happened with the Cardinals after the Ankiel thing...

oeo
10-21-2007, 08:59 AM
Sounds like a psyche job to me.... Someone trying to cause problems within the Indians to announce it at this point.... Look what happened with the Cardinals after the Ankiel thing...

I don't think it will psyche them out anymore than they already are. They've lost whatever momentum they had; they look like they're toast.

Scottiehaswheels
10-21-2007, 09:02 AM
I don't think it will psyche them out anymore than they already are. They've lost whatever momentum they had; they look like they're toast.I'd be willing to bet this was leaked to someone inside the clubhouse before they started game 5 honestly...

oeo
10-21-2007, 09:05 AM
I'd be willing to bet this was leaked to someone inside the clubhouse before they started game 5 honestly...

I'd be willing to take that bet.

The Indians are still a young team with a bad manager...that's why they're choking.

CLR01
10-21-2007, 09:40 AM
This time it Paul Byrd. Can't say I would have guessed that one.


Who knew diabetes was such a problem in pro sports.

I'd be willing to bet this was leaked to someone inside the clubhouse before they started game 5 honestly...

Leaked what? You think there is a player in that clubhouse that didn't know? Hell half of them probably do it with him.

Fenway
10-21-2007, 09:55 AM
Interesting that ESPN reports this the day of a crucial Game 7....

ESPN did not break the story the San Francisco Chronicle did.

Scottiehaswheels
10-21-2007, 10:01 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706 better explanation and justified reasons if you ask me.

kjhanson
10-21-2007, 10:34 AM
Well, this explains our only loss in the 2005 Playoffs. Sorta.

Brian26
10-21-2007, 10:40 AM
On second thought I'm naive to pretty much any of the current drug culture , I guess that comes with being a geezer.

Nothing to be ashamed of on either count.

Brian26
10-21-2007, 10:43 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706 better explanation and justified reasons if you ask me.

An excellent explanation, and quite an emotional twist to it all. Just another reason why we should know all the facts before rushing to judgment.

Go Tribe.

Jjav829
10-21-2007, 10:48 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706 better explanation and justified reasons if you ask me.

Of all the players who have been linked to HGH, Byrd seems to be the only one with a legitimate reason to take HGH.

beckett21
10-21-2007, 10:58 AM
Of all the players who have been linked to HGH, Byrd seems to be the only one with a legitimate reason to take HGH.

Based upon that article I'd tend to agree.

PKalltheway
10-21-2007, 11:08 AM
That Fox Sports article was a nice, fair and balanced article. Paul Byrd is still a-ok in my book.:smile:

Crede_Fan
10-21-2007, 11:23 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706 better explanation and justified reasons if you ask me.


Much better article. I just didn't see him using it to pitch better. He's not that type of pitcher (power) that you would think that HGH would help.

FedEx227
10-21-2007, 12:10 PM
Much better article. I just didn't see him using it to pitch better. He's not that type of pitcher (power) that you would think that HGH would help.

Exactly. Why would Byrd need HGH. Turn that 81 mph fastball into 83?

Domeshot17
10-21-2007, 12:14 PM
I tend to agree with most of you here. We Know HGH is banned, but we know its also prescribed in extreme cases, and it sounds like Byrd has an extreme case. I knew a kid growing up who had to take it because of almost the same condition, and it was saving his life.

WhiteSox5187
10-21-2007, 12:27 PM
From a medical standpoint I know nothing about when a person should take HGH or not...but I imagine that there are enough corrupt doctors who would be willing to accept pay to prescribe HGH even when it is not needed...but Byrd admits to taking it, so I'm tempted to say it sounds like there is a basis for it.

FedEx227
10-21-2007, 12:30 PM
Byrd's reasoning sounds MUCH more concrete than Ankiel's.

I hope now the Ankiel defenders will see how big of a difference a tumor over "my shoulder surgery" is.

Byrd needs it to stay alive, Ankiel took it to accelerate recovery from an injury.

Fenway
10-21-2007, 12:43 PM
This is the actual article

http://www.sfgate.com/templates/brands/chronicle/images/chronicle_logo.gif (http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/)

Cleveland pitcher spent thousands on human growth hormone (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/10/21/MNN6SSC8F.DTL&tsp=1)


Lance Williams,Mark Fainaru-Wada, Chronicle Staff Writers (lwilliams@sfchronicle.com)

Scottiehaswheels
10-21-2007, 12:52 PM
I don't say this often but thank god someone (Rosenthal) actually did some research as to WHY he bought them. Every sports page you look at now only has the story he bought them and used them....

ChiSoxGirl
10-21-2007, 12:57 PM
I don't say this often but thank god someone (Rosenthal) actually did some research as to WHY he bought them. Every sports page you look at now only has the story he bought them and used them....

No kidding. Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-alcs--byrd-hgh&prov=ap&type=lgns) has nothing in its article about Byrd having a tumor, rather it focuses on his purchase and use of HGH. After I read it, I chalked Byrd up as another one who "cheated." But then I read the Fox Sports article you posted, and it totally changed my outlook on the situation. Byrd obviously took HGH for medical reasons.

Scottiehaswheels
10-21-2007, 01:02 PM
No kidding. Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-alcs--byrd-hgh&prov=ap&type=lgns) has nothing in its article about Byrd having a tumor, rather it focuses on his purchase and use of HGH. After I read it, I chalked Byrd up as another one who "cheated." But then I read the Fox Sports article you posted, and it totally changed my outlook on the situation. Byrd obviously took HGH for medical reasons.Yeah... The timing of the purchases doesn't look good obviously (right after elbow surgery) and stopped buying them after they were banned. But, if its due to a tumor, it may have been removed as part of an offseason surgery and he was just taking them until his doc said his gland was back to functioning normally????

TornLabrum
10-21-2007, 01:10 PM
Here's the part that bothers me that Byrd didn't address:

Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show.

beckett21
10-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Here's the part that bothers me that Byrd didn't address:

Missed that part. Not sure how he would explain that.

Doesn't say exactly when he was diagnosed with the tumor either; it said 'spring training' which would lead me to assume it was this past spring. If he had a hormone deficiency, why didn't they check for a tumor before, i.e. in 2002? If he was diagnosed with the tumor back then, different story.

Remember in the Giambi case he was also treated for a pituitary tumor which presumably was caused by use of anabolic steroids/HGH (not proven). However I don't think that the science is conclusive on this, and I'm no endocrinologist. The tumors can be treated with HGH though.

Just makes you wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg. I'm on the fence with this one. Byrd seems like a believable sort and doesn't really fit the profile of a user, so I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in the absence of the medical facts in the case. He certainly made no effort to hide his identity or cover up a paper trail. However, his last purchase was conspicuously one week before baseball banned HGH, so if he still needed it for medicinal purposes why wouldn't he have disclosed that?

Some answers are still needed, for sure.

Oblong
10-21-2007, 02:32 PM
I like to use common sense. He bought them in his name with his credit card. If he's trying to cheat or hide something I don't think that's what he'd do.

I have no problem with this.

TornLabrum
10-21-2007, 03:13 PM
I like to use common sense. He bought them in his name with his credit card. If he's trying to cheat or hide something I don't think that's what he'd do.

I have no problem with this.

And as for dentists prescribing HGH for pituitary tumors (assuming the source is true)?

WhiteSox5187
10-21-2007, 04:42 PM
And as for dentists prescribing HGH for pituitary tumors (assuming the source is true)?
Yea...I mean Sosa could have bought 'em with his credit card or a check not because he needed them for medical purposes but just because he was dumb enough not to think anyone would look there.

HomeFish
10-21-2007, 06:21 PM
There are a lot of otherwise smart and successful people who get themselves in big trouble by buying "escort services" with their credit cards, only to have it revealed during their divorce trial.

I'm not sure that it's generally well-known that credit card records aren't secret.

RedPinStripes
10-21-2007, 07:08 PM
Here's the part that bothers me that Byrd didn't address:

Someone got some "splainin" to do.:redneck

Jjav829
10-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Obviously none us of knows the real truth. But Byrd doesn't seem to be handling this like a guilty man. He's not running from the story. Byrd held a press conference to talk about it and admitted a lot. He's writing a book where he talks about his HGH use. He also seemed genuinely concerned about people thinking he is a cheater. Maybe that's only because he was caught, but he seems like an honest guy.

MLB needs to tell us what they know. Byrd claims MLB knew about his pituitary gland issue and helped him in getting blood tests. If MLB knew about his HGH use, or anything that would indicate that his HGH use may have been legal, they should do their best to clear his name and separate Byrd from the guys who used HGH solely to cheat.

Oblong
10-21-2007, 08:17 PM
I read something where I think he was addressing the dentist issue. He said that some of the doctors he never actually met. He said something like "When I go see a doctor I don't ask for his credentials. You see people in the waiting room, you see a white lab coat..." I don't know about the ethical nature of doctors giving prescriptions without seeing the patient. Is reviewing medical records enough?

I really do want to believe that this is all on the up and up and nothing shady was going on. To me there's a big moral and philsophical difference between taking HGH for a legitimate medical issue, and reaping any side benefits, and going through shady measures to get it because you think it'll make you a better player.

HomeFish
10-21-2007, 08:20 PM
I read something where I think he was addressing the dentist issue. He said that some of the doctors he never actually met. He said something like "When I go see a doctor I don't ask for his credentials. You see people in the waiting room, you see a white lab coat..." I don't know about the ethical nature of doctors giving prescriptions without seeing the patient. Is reviewing medical records enough?

Do MLB players really just pick doctors out of a phonebook, as that seems to imply? If Magglio Ordonez can afford to see the world's leading knee injury specialist in Vienna, then I think Paul Byrd can get an appointment with at least a professor of sports medicine at a top-100 school, if not substantially better.

IlliniSox4Life
10-21-2007, 09:10 PM
Exactly. Why would Byrd need HGH. Turn that 81 mph fastball into 83?

Well, many people would use HGH to recover faster from an injury (Ankiel). It might not actually have any effects on their top ability, but does make them more likely to perform up to that ability (less wear towards the end of a season, shorter recovery times between starts). I'm not saying it is the case here, only that just because somebody isn't a power pitcher/ home run hitter, doesn't mean HGH wouldn't help them.

Do MLB players really just pick doctors out of a phonebook, as that seems to imply? If Magglio Ordonez can afford to see the world's leading knee injury specialist in Vienna, then I think Paul Byrd can get an appointment with at least a professor of sports medicine at a top-100 school, if not substantially better.

I don't know if this is the case, but perhaps he was on the road/ on vacation and needed another prescription for the HGH. Instead of going to his regular doctor, he just found somebody there and went to get it. Again, I don't know if it's the case. I've certainly been to doctors under special circumstances that aren't my regular doctors, and I don't check their credentials either. Then again, I'm not a professional athlete, and I would think that a professional athlete would show a bit more caution. You're right that something seems odd about it.


I hope that Byrd is telling the truth and it is all legit.

HomeFish
10-21-2007, 09:28 PM
I don't know if this is the case, but perhaps he was on the road/ on vacation and needed another prescription for the HGH. Instead of going to his regular doctor, he just found somebody there and went to get it. Again, I don't know if it's the case. I've certainly been to doctors under special circumstances that aren't my regular doctors, and I don't check their credentials either. Then again, I'm not a professional athlete, and I would think that a professional athlete would show a bit more caution. You're right that something seems odd about it.

The road trip thing is a good explanation I didn't think of. Makes sense.

beckett21
10-21-2007, 10:15 PM
I read something where I think he was addressing the dentist issue. He said that some of the doctors he never actually met. He said something like "When I go see a doctor I don't ask for his credentials. You see people in the waiting room, you see a white lab coat..."

So you don't know you're in a dentist's office?:?: Sounds weird to me.

I don't know about the ethical nature of doctors giving prescriptions without seeing the patient. Is reviewing medical records enough?Not for something like this IMO. I sure wouldn't as hell do it. I don't care if it's the Pope. Then again I'm a foot doctor...don't see where a dentist would have any more right to write for this stuff than I would, which is none. I would have absolutely no business doing it--I wouldn't even know how since it is not something I am familiar with prescribing.

If he were on the road, the right thing to do would be to get examined by a qualified doctor and have his medical records transferred so that the doctor had access to his previous diagnoses and care plan.


I really do want to believe that this is all on the up and up and nothing shady was going on. To me there's a big moral and philsophical difference between taking HGH for a legitimate medical issue, and reaping any side benefits, and going through shady measures to get it because you think it'll make you a better player.I want to believe him too, and he does raise the specter of legitimacy with his alleged hormone deficiency. However there are some definite holes in his story.

D. TODD
10-22-2007, 10:42 AM
I find it funny that some people say Byrd does not fit the type for using HGH or roids. He is exactly the type that I think most users are and always was. The average guy trying to get better or borderline big leaguer. The fact that he throws in the 80's is not a reason not to try to get a boost in his recovery from workouts and pitching soreness to improve his chances in baseball. The Marvin Bernard types of the world are the majority of the users, a pitchers benefits seem to far exceed hitters, since recovery time and healing seem to be the biggest benefit. Those who want to work there ass off are more apt to use, so they can be in the weightroom longer compared to the perception of the stereotypical lazy guy looking for a shortcut to improving.

How or why he used, he used and it helped him to heal. I wish him luck in the future with his health. I always hated him as a pitcher though.

TornLabrum
10-22-2007, 07:00 PM
And today George Ofman reports that MLB DID NOT give Byrd permission to use HGH.

FedEx227
10-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Yeah my support is definitely waning in this case.

You got $25,000 worth of HGH for a tumor from a Florida dentist and what you claim was approved, never was approved.

Uh-oh.

Oblong
10-22-2007, 07:39 PM
Did he say it was approved? The quote I saw said MLB knew about his condition but I didn't see anything about them approving the treatment or use of HGH.
He didn't pay for any after MLB banned it, at least that we know of.

soxfan13
10-24-2007, 02:09 PM
Did he say it was approved? The quote I saw said MLB knew about his condition but I didn't see anything about them approving the treatment or use of HGH.
He didn't pay for any after MLB banned it, at least that we know of.

Byrd said that MLB and the Indians knew of his condition and treatment. In todays Sun Times an exec for MLB is quoted" We have never granted a exemption for HGH ever. Not for this guy, not for anybody". Indians GM Shapiro has said he wasnt aware of the HGH use until it came out last week. I am sorry but if soo innocent why lie? I am very surprised by alot of the posters giving him the benefit of the doubt. If this was Giambi, Shefield or Bonds people here would be screaming for his head. Lets get a little consistent here folks.

Jjav829
10-24-2007, 05:23 PM
Byrd said that MLB and the Indians knew of his condition and treatment. In todays Sun Times an exec for MLB is quoted" We have never granted a exemption for HGH ever. Not for this guy, not for anybody". Indians GM Shapiro has said he wasnt aware of the HGH use until it came out last week. I am sorry but if soo innocent why lie? I am very surprised by alot of the posters giving him the benefit of the doubt. If this was Giambi, Shefield or Bonds people here would be screaming for his head. Lets get a little consistent here folks.

Did you read/hear something different? Because this is what most of us read:

"The Indians, my coaches and MLB have known that I have had a pituitary gland issue for some time and have assisted me in getting blood tests in different states."

He says MLB and the Indians knew about his condition, not his treatment.