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ondafarm
10-18-2007, 08:15 AM
Who are the detritus in the White Sox organization? If you were GM of a different team, who would you take a flyer on? Whom would you trade for in a screwball for nutcase deal? Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard came up a big plus for the White Sox even if Matt's arm falls off this winter. Who are the White Sox willing to part with for a song?

My guesses:

Brian Anderson
Andy Gonzalez
Charlie Haegar
David Aardsma
Mike McDougal
Andrew Sisco

and possibly
Nick Masset

As a rival GM, I'd call Kenny and ask what he wants for any of these guys and if it was a song, I'd sing it.

This is certainly not saying I'd trade a real major leaguer or a top prospect for even this entire list, but every organization has guys who you may be unloading cheaply. Trading one or a couple of these guys could be worth it. Trading for a guy doesn't mean he can't be DFA'd by the end of spring training.

ondafarm
10-18-2007, 08:16 AM
Oh, Juan Uribe is a special case. I wouldn't class him with the other guys, but as a rival GM, I might be interested in him.

October26
10-18-2007, 08:25 AM
Who are the detritus in the White Sox organization? If you were GM of a different team, who would you take a flyer on? Whom would you trade for in a screwball for nutcase deal? Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard came up a big plus for the White Sox even if Matt's arm falls off this winter. Who are the White Sox willing to part with for a song?

My guesses:

Brian Anderson
Andy Gonzalez
Charlie Haegar
David Aardsma
Mike McDougal
Andrew Sisco

and possibly
Nick Masset

As a rival GM, I'd call Kenny and ask what he wants for any of these guys and if it was a song, I'd sing it.

This is certainly not saying I'd trade a real major leaguer or a top prospect for even this entire list, but every organization has guys who you may be unloading cheaply. Trading one or a couple of these guys could be worth it. Trading for a guy doesn't mean he can't be DFA'd by the end of spring training.

Out of the list you provide above, I'm thinking Masset and Haeger might generate some calls. They are both still developing and offer hope for the future. Everybody else on your list above has an "F" for performance as far as I'm concerned, so I'm thinking they won't generate interest. Course what do I know, I'm just a fan. One thing about Anderson, is that a change of scenery may do him some good. Just my opinion.

8 days 'til October26's sig update time ...

dickallen15
10-18-2007, 08:28 AM
Why would anyone want Andy Gonzalez even if it was for nothing? If it wasn't for Toby Hall, he was the worst player in the major leagues in 2007.

Crede_Fan
10-18-2007, 08:28 AM
I think I would wait one more year on the following guys.

Masset
Aadarsma
Sisco

I would wait to see how they do after a full year with the Sox. Aadarsma & Sisco came from teams that ruin pitchers not develop them. And Masset is still young and again came from a screwed up team in terms of pitching.

I would also give Haegar one more year.

dickallen15
10-18-2007, 08:37 AM
I think I would wait one more year on the following guys.

Masset
Aadarsma
Sisco

I would wait to see how they do after a full year with the Sox. Aadarsma & Sisco came from teams that ruin pitchers not develop them. And Masset is still young and again came from a screwed up team in terms of pitching.

I would also give Haegar one more year.
Masset and Aardsma are out of options I believe, so a decision will most likely have to be made on them by the end of spring training.

jabrch
10-18-2007, 09:09 AM
As a rival GM, I'd call Kenny and ask what he wants for any of these guys and if it was a song, I'd sing it.


Outside of Gonzalez, I don't see anyone that KW is going to give up on cheaply. That's not his style.

He was very high on the arms he got last year - he's not going to dump them right away.

chaerulez
10-18-2007, 09:24 AM
I'm really surprised how many people here want to give up on Anderson. He is a former first round pick, and has a total of 416 major league AB. To label him a bust already isn't fair. At least the very least I think his defense allows him to be on a team as a defensive sub. I'd give him at least 250 more ABs at the major league level before making a final judgement on him.

DumpJerry
10-18-2007, 09:42 AM
Who are the detritus in the White Sox organization? If you were GM of a different team, who would you take a flyer on? Whom would you trade for in a screwball for nutcase deal? Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard came up a big plus for the White Sox even if Matt's arm falls off this winter. Who are the White Sox willing to part with for a song?

My guesses:

Brian Anderson
Andy Gonzalez
Charlie Haegar
David Aardsma
Mike McDougal
Andrew Sisco

and possibly
Nick Masset
I pretty much agree with your list except for Haeger and Masset. I'd bet the mortgage on Anderson being gone soon. He's in management's doghouse like none other that I can recall. They are probably waiting for a medical report on his injuries to max out his trade value.

ondafarm
10-18-2007, 10:39 AM
With regards to Anderson and Gonzalez here's my opinion.

These guys just don't get along with or perhaps more correct, perform well for, the White Sox manager. That happens. The best thing you can do for a guy like that is trade him. I don't know if either could be a servicable major leaguer, but I highly doubt either will ever be one with the White Sox. So if I was a rival GM, I might take a flyer on the guys. Like I said, trade a guy you've given up on, for a guy who might have value.

ondafarm
10-18-2007, 10:49 AM
As for the pitchers on the list, this stems from the White Sox starters. As in, the rotation probably looks like this:

Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Vazquez, Danks.

Random order, not a ranking.

If the Sox do nothing this leaves Floyd, Masset and Haegar hoping to beat out one or two of these guys.

Possibilities:

The Sox could dump Contreras and trade Garland. This would leave two spots open for three guys, with long relief/ spot starter available.

The Sox could do one of the two which would leave one spot open, which means dumping one of the four guys: Danks, Masset, Floyd, Haegar.

The Sox could do no deal and dump two of the guys.

Since almost everybody in the history of baseball needs more starting pitching, if I was a rival GM, I'd be talking with the Sox as soon as possible. Is Danks my dream come true? No, but he'd probably be better than the #5 starter on at least 10 if not 20 major league teams.

I'm not saying anybody here is HoF material. I'm just saying serviceable.

oeo
10-18-2007, 11:28 AM
With regards to Anderson and Gonzalez here's my opinion.

These guys just don't get along with or perhaps more correct, perform well for, the White Sox manager. That happens. The best thing you can do for a guy like that is trade him. I don't know if either could be a servicable major leaguer, but I highly doubt either will ever be one with the White Sox. So if I was a rival GM, I might take a flyer on the guys. Like I said, trade a guy you've given up on, for a guy who might have value.

Come on, ondafarm...Andy Gonzalez sucks. He was never expected to become much of anything; I was actually surprised by some of his contributions earlier in the year.

SBSoxFan
10-18-2007, 11:37 AM
Who are the detritus in the White Sox organization? If you were GM of a different team, who would you take a flyer on? Whom would you trade for in a screwball for nutcase deal? Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard came up a big plus for the White Sox even if Matt's arm falls off this winter. Who are the White Sox willing to part with for a song?

My guesses:

Brian Anderson
Andy Gonzalez
Charlie Haegar
David Aardsma
Mike McDougal
Andrew Sisco

and possibly
Nick Masset

As a rival GM, I'd call Kenny and ask what he wants for any of these guys and if it was a song, I'd sing it.

This is certainly not saying I'd trade a real major leaguer or a top prospect for even this entire list, but every organization has guys who you may be unloading cheaply. Trading one or a couple of these guys could be worth it. Trading for a guy doesn't mean he can't be DFA'd by the end of spring training.

I think the Thornton/Borchard analogy may be off. The only reason the Sox got him was because Cooper felt he detected a very fixable flaw in Thornton's mechanics. A lot of the guys on your list need more than just a tweak in mechanics. If possible, I'd prefer to keep some of the younger, power arms.

Oh, and I prefer jetsam to detritus. :tongue:

ondafarm
10-18-2007, 11:52 AM
I think the Thornton/Borchard analogy may be off. The only reason the Sox got him was because Cooper felt he detected a very fixable flaw in Thornton's mechanics. A lot of the guys on your list need more than just a tweak in mechanics. If possible, I'd prefer to keep some of the younger, power arms.

Oh, and I prefer jetsam to detritus. :tongue:

I think Thornton was targetted by the Sox becuase Cooper thought, correctly I believe, that he had such a flaw. Seattle gave him away for next to nothing because they didn't know it.

It's up to other teams to like these guys not the Sox's staff.

I prefer detritus because it's more direct, as in the rough of diamonds in the rough. Besides, I can never keep flotsam and jetsam distinct in my mind. I know one arrives at low tide, the other at high tide, but because Illinois has very little in the way of tides, I'm pretty much clueless on it.

SBSoxFan
10-18-2007, 12:14 PM
I think Thornton was targetted by the Sox becuase Cooper thought, correctly I believe, that he had such a flaw. Seattle gave him away for next to nothing because they didn't know it.

It's up to other teams to like these guys not the Sox's staff.

I prefer detritus because it's more direct, as in the rough of diamonds in the rough. Besides, I can never keep flotsam and jetsam distinct in my mind. I know one arrives at low tide, the other at high tide, but because Illinois has very little in the way of tides, I'm pretty much clueless on it.

Well, I hope the Sox' coaches aren't as clueless as Seattle's were regarding Thornton.

Speaking of clueless, I was clueless on detritus, which I why I chose jetsam. :D:

ondafarm
10-18-2007, 12:48 PM
Well, I hope the Sox' coaches aren't as clueless as Seattle's were regarding Thornton.

Speaking of clueless, I was clueless on detritus, which I why I chose jetsam. :D:

For those word fans, jetsam (or jetsom) is that which has been voluntarily jettisoned by a vessel's crew typically to lighten the ship in an emergency while flotsam (or flotsom) is pretty much any other floating debris.

The most famous recent cases of flotsam are the Jan 29nth 1992 mass release of yellow rubber ducks (red beavers, green frogs and blue turtles being freed in lesser numbers) bath toys (Friendly Floatees(tm)) which are still being returned for the $100 US savings bond in some locales. The second is the release of 80,000 Nike sneakers from the Hansa Carrier on 27 May 1990. This did little to shoe the population of the world however.

johnr1note
10-18-2007, 01:26 PM
I thought the "Jetsams" was an animated television series from Hanna and Barbara.

SBSoxFan
10-18-2007, 02:00 PM
I thought the "Jetsams" was an animated television series from Hanna and Barbara.

:cheers:

Flotsam and Jetsam is also the name of a band.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-18-2007, 06:23 PM
I pretty much agree with your list except for Haeger and Masset. I'd bet the mortgage on Anderson being gone soon. He's in management's doghouse like none other that I can recall. They are probably waiting for a medical report on his injuries to max out his trade value.

Jon Rauch got into the doghouse even more quickly, and out the door so fast it made his head spin. (Wouldn't minded having him in the pen last year.)

jabrch
10-18-2007, 07:08 PM
Jon Rauch got into the doghouse even more quickly, and out the door so fast it made his head spin. (Wouldn't minded having him in the pen last year.)


Nobody went from doghouse to door faster than Jose Paniagua...and for good reason

Dick Allen
10-18-2007, 07:13 PM
Why would anyone want Andy Gonzalez even if it was for nothing? If it wasn't for Toby Hall, he was the worst player in the major leagues in 2007.Toby Hall was Babe Ruth compared to Gonzalez. Hell, I'M Babe Ruth compared to Gonzalez.

Gammons Peter
10-18-2007, 07:14 PM
de-tri-tus


1.rock in small particles or other material worn or broken away from a mass, as by the action of water or glacial ice. 2.any disintegrated material; debris.
[Origin: 1785–95; < F détritus < L: a rubbing away, equiv. to détrī-, var. s. of déterere to wear down, rub off (de- de- (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=de-) + terere to rub) + -tus suffix of v. actionhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Sockinchisox
10-18-2007, 07:21 PM
I pretty much agree with your list except for Haeger and Masset. I'd bet the mortgage on Anderson being gone soon. He's in management's doghouse like none other that I can recall. They are probably waiting for a medical report on his injuries to max out his trade value.

They have to be ticked with him mysteriously missing from the Mexican League he was supposed to be in, or was a reason already given?

ondafarm
10-19-2007, 08:28 AM
de-tri-tus


1.rock in small particles or other material worn or broken away from a mass, as by the action of water or glacial ice. 2.any disintegrated material; debris.
[Origin: 1785–95; < F détritus < L: a rubbing away, equiv. to détrī-, var. s. of déterere to wear down, rub off (de- de- (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=de-) + terere to rub) + -tus suffix of v. actionhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Thank you Peter Gammons.

((Okay, now there's four words I never thought I'd string together.))

Frater Perdurabo
10-19-2007, 09:16 AM
Ondafarm, I like your analysis and the question you posed. It's a good question for healthy debate.

I'd take a shot on Anderson and Heager.

Even Anderson's biggest detractors say he'd benefit from a fresh start elsewhere, and he does have very good talent. Since he's still got options left, I'd trade for him if the price wasn't too high, and then have him work with a hitting coach and also learn to sac bunt, bunt for a hit, swing bunt, hit to the opposite field, hit behind the runner, hit to the right side, etc. I'd also work with him on stealing bases. In short, I'd do just want Ondafarm recommended that the Sox do with Anderson at this time last year.

As for Heager, if the price is right, I'd trade for him, too, especially if I ran a team that played in coastal/high humidity/low elevation city like Houston, Miami, Washington, etc., where the knuckler would be extremely effective. I'd hire Charlie Hough to work with him to develop and perfect the knuckler.

The idea with both of these guys is PATIENCE.

ondafarm
10-19-2007, 10:30 AM
Just a note, the Sox have hired Charlie Hough part-time to work with Haegar at least the last three seasons. From what I hear, Hough is very impressed with Haegar.

I concur with your location choices on knuckleballers and add the proviso that if my home stadium was a dome, I'd have to think twice. Not that knuckleballers are dead in domes, especially if you get the air conditioning working for you, but I'd prefer a nice hot, humid coastal city.

California Sox
10-19-2007, 11:04 AM
I don't think Haeger's going anywhere. Look at Wakefield. A low-cost guy who can give you a lot of innings starting or relieving is valuable. And I believe Haeger's still got options. As a rival GM, I'd tried to take Anderson for nothing. If he hits .250 and plays good D he's at least a platoon option or a 5th outfielder. Who knows? Maybe he blossoms ala Eric Byrnes.

ode to veeck
10-19-2007, 11:58 AM
Nobody went from doghouse to door faster than Jose Paniagua...and for good reason

Not fast enough if you ask me, he shoulda been pulled after one run in the game that brought the "stick a fork in 'em" Twins back to life

jabrch
10-19-2007, 12:51 PM
Not fast enough if you ask me, he shoulda been pulled after one run in the game that brought the "stick a fork in 'em" Twins back to life

I was pisseed when he got out of the pen. I hated him. I turned to the folks I was sitting with and said, "I know we are winning big - but this has all the makings of a disaster".

I'm normally dead wrong when I get pessimistic. But that time I was accurate.

And for that piece of crap to ***** about how he was treated...he was lucky to even have a job.

HerzogVon
10-20-2007, 11:12 AM
:cheers:

Flotsam and Jetsam is also the name of a band.

Seem to recall the pair as siamese twins who pitched for Veeck's Wreckers of Jamaica in(Inn) the Caribbean League. Having the ability to fire from either side without necessitating a pitching change made them a much feared combination. This freed up manager Charlie Laughton to spend most of the season working on his histrionics.

As for detritus; in the words of player rep. Jesse Jackson...

"Detritus right, and we won't bite!"

TornLabrum
10-20-2007, 02:54 PM
what's this about white sox detritus. Everybody knows that detritus is tigers territory.

ondafarm
10-22-2007, 11:02 AM
what's this about white sox detritus. Everybody knows that detritus is tigers territory.

Berry Punny.