PDA

View Full Version : My first post wins me the respect of the board


cygar10
10-17-2007, 07:16 PM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

JB98
10-17-2007, 07:21 PM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

If KW trades a pitcher who makes 30 starts and throws 200 innings every year straight up for Furcal, get out the torches and pitchforks.

misty60481
10-17-2007, 08:34 PM
You mean you would trade Garland--one of the better pitchers in AL---for a 30 yr. old SS who hit .270 with 6 Hrs ?

JB98
10-17-2007, 08:36 PM
You mean you would trade Garland--one of the better pitchers in AL---for a 30 yr. old SS who hit .270 with 6 Hrs ?

Only a fool would do such a thing.

Daver
10-17-2007, 09:06 PM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

You are insane.

SoxSpeed22
10-17-2007, 09:14 PM
You are insane.:hawk
"I Luuvvvv the offseason."

DickAllen72
10-17-2007, 09:29 PM
If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.
I'd consider trading Contreras straight up for Furcal and Garland for Tejada.

I'd move Tejada to 3B and sign Rowand for CF. The lineup would go Furcal, Rowand, Tejada, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Pierzynski, Fields, Richar. Bench would be Erstad, Ozuna, Owens and a catcher.

Starters would be Buehrle, Vazquez, and three out of Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Masset, Gio, Egbert.

Bullpen would contain Jenks, Thornton, Logan and probably Wasserman. Add two more reliable bullpen arms (no small task) and we're set.

Domeshot17
10-17-2007, 09:34 PM
You mean you would trade Garland--one of the better pitchers in AL---for a 30 yr. old SS who hit .270 with 6 Hrs ?

Please. While I would not move Garland (or Konerko) for Furcal, I would HARDLY call Garland one of the better pitchers in the AL. I can name 10-20 off the top of my head I would take of JG. Garland is an above average pitcher, not a GREAT pitcher let alone anything resembling a number 1.

Last year we saw what happens when Garland doesnt get a boatload of run support. You take away his W-L and he had a BETTER YEAR in 2007 then he did in 2006 when he won 18 games. He has had 1 year with an era under 4 or a whip under 1.2 He has NEVER struck out more then 120 guys in a season. He has a career 4.41 era and 1.32 whip and not even a 2:1 K:BB ratio. The one dependable thing about Garland is he gives you 200 innings and a sub 5 era every year. Thats it. I don't know why people buy into this MYTH he is this phenom pither or anything above a good number 3 or 4 sp (on a winning team) but thats what he is. If you go into a year with Garland as a 1 or 2, you have BIG poblems, and why you think teams would pay for Garland as a number 1 is beyond me. The year to do that was 2005 after the world series when he had his career year coming into a contract year. People get so confused when it comes to pitchers and wins.

I am by no means a Jon Garland hater, but I am a realist with him. He won't out pitch the number 2 starter on most teams. You dont win 36 games in 2 years by being a bad pitcher, but you also dont post a career ERA in the mid 4s and Career whip over 1.3 by being one of the top in baseball, or even the AL.

gr8mexico
10-18-2007, 01:04 AM
Trading Contreras for Furcal is better. Both team would take a risk and Contreras might do better in the NL. You would place Furcal at SS and Sign Luis Castillo to play 2nd.That would be great speed at the top of your lineup.Castillo hitting 1st then Furcal.

AJ Hellraiser
10-18-2007, 01:25 AM
Again from my very good and legit sources... and those who PM'd me last week know who they are....

I've been told Contreras-for-Furcal will be revisited... especially after Jose showed some signs of life during the final month... That waiver deal was close to getting done in August...

An expanded trade could be more intriguing... If the Dodgers back off of Contreras I've been informed a blockbuster could go down...it would be...

Sox send: Jon Garland, Joe Crede and prospect

Sox get: Furcal, Matt Kemp and either Chad Billingsley or Jonathan Broxton...

cburns
10-18-2007, 01:25 AM
All I know is that pitching wins championships, whether it is starting pitching or the bullpen. That is what the Sox need to focus on this winter.

LongLiveFisk
10-18-2007, 05:54 AM
You are insane.

And welcome to WSI! :redneck

hi im skot
10-18-2007, 07:53 AM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

Wow.

Now that's the way to start my Thursday.

Frontman
10-18-2007, 07:59 AM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.



"Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cuz I get better lookin each day

To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
But I'm doin' the best that I can

I used to have a girlfriend
But I guess she just couldn't compete
With all these love starved women
Who keep clamoring at my feet

Well I probably could find me another
But I guess they're all in awe of me
Who cares I never get lonesome
Cuz I treasure my own company

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cuz I get better lookin each day

To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
But I'm doin the best that I can

I guess you could say I am a loner
A cowboy all locked up and proud
Well I could have lots of friends if I wanted
But then I wouldn't stand out in a crowd

Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do with the way
That I fill out my skin tight blue jeans" Mac Davis

Zisk77
10-18-2007, 10:31 AM
Also, Furcal has re-occurring DUI problems which is why he no longer plays for Atlanta.

Yes, I consider Big Jon one of the better Pitchers in the Al. He won 18 games 2 straight years and would have one quite a bit more than 10 this year if the bullpen didn't repeatedly stab him in the back.... more than anyone else including Danks.

eriqjaffe
10-18-2007, 10:41 AM
Also, Furcal has re-occurring DUI problems which is why he no longer plays for Atlanta.

Yes, I consider Big Jon one of the better Pitchers in the Al. He won 18 games 2 straight years and would have one quite a bit more than 10 this year if the bullpen didn't repeatedly stab him in the back.... more than anyone else including Danks.At the risk of being tarred and feathered for being a stathead, wins may be one of the worst measures of how good a pitcher really is.

That being said, JG is a very solid pitcher. One of the best in the AL? Absolutely not. He's not even the best on the Sox.

I also don't think JG for Furcal is a good enough deal for the Sox. Contreras for Furcal? In a heartbeat.

Fenway
10-18-2007, 11:06 AM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

Won't happen unless the White Sox hire Theo Epstein to run the team

The Critic
10-18-2007, 11:19 AM
Starters would be Buehrle, Vazquez, and three out of Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Masset, Gio, Egbert.

This deepens the worry lines on my forehead.

itsnotrequired
10-18-2007, 11:56 AM
At the risk of being tarred and feathered for being a stathead, wins may be one of the worst measures of how good a pitcher really is.

That being said, JG is a very solid pitcher. One of the best in the AL? Absolutely not. He's not even the best on the Sox.

I also don't think JG for Furcal is a good enough deal for the Sox. Contreras for Furcal? In a heartbeat.

Garland got the worst run support of all the starters this season save Danks yet still managed as many wins as Buehrle and Contreras.

SouthSide2Ship
10-18-2007, 12:21 PM
Never trade starting pitching unless you get a solid starter back or a few deece prospects.

WizardsofOzzie
10-18-2007, 12:25 PM
Won't happen unless the White Sox hire Theo Epstein to run the team
Maybe then we could lure Manny :tongue:

spiffie
10-18-2007, 12:31 PM
Never trade starting pitching unless you get a solid starter back or a few deece prospects.
"deece"? :?:

D. TODD
10-18-2007, 12:36 PM
Again from my very good and legit sources... and those who PM'd me last week know who they are....

I've been told Contreras-for-Furcal will be revisited... especially after Jose showed some signs of life during the final month... That waiver deal was close to getting done in August...

An expanded trade could be more intriguing... If the Dodgers back off of Contreras I've been informed a blockbuster could go down...it would be...

Sox send: Jon Garland, Joe Crede and prospect

Sox get: Furcal, Matt Kemp and either Chad Billingsley or Jonathan Broxton... Me likey Broxton!:D: Honestly if the Dodgers would do this, I would be interested.

voodoochile
10-18-2007, 12:36 PM
"deece"? :?:

Hey, he saved a letter and sounded cool in the process. How the heck is anyone supposed to go anywhere if they have to type every letter in every wor...:tongue:

JB98
10-18-2007, 01:33 PM
This deepens the worry lines on my forehead.

Mine as well. If Nick Masset gets anywhere near our starting rotation next season, pass me the tums.

I'm not real fond of pitchers who don't throw strikes.

DickAllen72
10-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Mine as well. If Nick Masset gets anywhere near our starting rotation next season, pass me the tums.

I'm not real fond of pitchers who don't throw strikes.
Nothing to worry about at all. If he doesn't throw strikes, he doesn't win the job.

The Thomenator
10-18-2007, 05:46 PM
I'd consider trading Contreras straight up for Furcal and Garland for Tejada.

I'd move Tejada to 3B and sign Rowand for CF. The lineup would go Furcal, Rowand, Tejada, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Pierzynski, Fields, Richar. Bench would be Erstad, Ozuna, Owens and a catcher.

Starters would be Buehrle, Vazquez, and three out of Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Masset, Gio, Egbert.

Bullpen would contain Jenks, Thornton, Logan and probably Wasserman. Add two more reliable bullpen arms (no small task) and we're set.

You wanna get nuts......Let's get nuts:

Trade Konerko for Figgins and Shields. They need power to help Vlad as much as we need speed and bullpen help.
Sign Hunter.
Sign Eckstein/Jack Wilson

1. Figgins 2B
2. Eckstein/Wilson SS
3. Hunter CF
4. Thome DH
5. Dye RF
6. Pierzynski C
7. Fields 1B
8. Crede 3B
9. Owens LF

Bench: Hall, Ozuna, Erstad, middle infilder, outfielder

Starters: Buehrle, Vazquez, Garland, Contreras, Floyd, Danks, Gio, Egbert

Bullpen: Broadway, Thornton, Wasserman, Jenks, plus two others

Yes, I'm new, but think about it. This lineup does not leave the bases clogged all game. The only conescutive slow players are Thome-Pierzynski

ode to veeck
10-18-2007, 05:49 PM
You have to admit the #1 priority this offseason has.... HAS.... to be the shortstop. Juan Uribe may have his moments, but he is not the guy the Sox need at that position. He is too crazy and unfundamental, especially at the plate. He just has no concentration. There are several SS I like that include ones to sign in free agency or to trade for which include: Jack Wilson, David Eckstein, Edgar Renteria, or Orlando Cabrera. But....

If the Sox make 1 move, it has to be Jon Garland for Rafael Furcal straight up. It answers questions for both teams equally. Furcal is 30 and Garland is 28. Both had their worst seasons last year. Both make 11-13 million next year. Both should be hungry. Sox have enough young pitchers that are ready. Dodgers have enough young SS that are ready. It makes too much sense.

Welcome to WSI, but no, not a good trade at all.

Crede_Fan
10-18-2007, 06:49 PM
You wanna get nuts......Let's get nuts:

Trade Konerko for Figgins and Shields. They need power to help Vlad as much as we need speed and bullpen help.
Sign Hunter.
Sign Eckstein/Jack Wilson

1. Figgins 2B
2. Eckstein/Wilson SS
3. Hunter CF
4. Thome DH
5. Dye RF
6. Pierzynski C
7. Fields 1B
8. Crede 3B
9. Owens LF

Bench: Hall, Ozuna, Erstad, middle infilder, outfielder

Starters: Buehrle, Vazquez, Garland, Contreras, Floyd, Danks, Gio, Egbert

Bullpen: Broadway, Thornton, Wasserman, Jenks, plus two others

Yes, I'm new, but think about it. This lineup does not leave the bases clogged all game. The only conescutive slow players are Thome-Pierzynski


That is not a good middle infield defensively.

The Thomenator
10-18-2007, 07:42 PM
That is not a good middle infield defensively.

I'll give you that. My frustration lies in many things with this team. A lot of it stems from the lack of versatility our offense has. I love Thome with all my heart, as you can tell be my login name, but I love the idea of having a jack of all trades kinda offensive player in the 3 hole. Few and far between, I know.....
I also want to ponder the idea of trying to get Owens into the 9 hole. Not set on him at lead-off....could be wrong eventually. I'm not sure 2008 will be the year that will happen. I like him on the basepaths (when he gets there).

Vernam
10-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Hard to resist a thread with such a great title . . . I think the emergence of Fields creates a log jam that Kenny just has to break. If people thought we were slow before, imagine having Fields or Crede in the lineup instead of Pods. If Richar sticks, that could take some of the heat off (i.e., he's at least faster than Iguchi was), but I just can't imagine a lineup of:

Owens (or even Hunter or Rowand)
Fields
Konerko
Thome
Dye
Crede
AJ
SS (I'm not going there! :redneck)
Richar

I think Crede is gone the minute he proves he's healthy. But I don't see him bringing a solid everyday player -- more like a bit of bullpen help. I think Garland is gone to the first team that offers a solid everyday player who fits in and preferably has speed.

But the trade value of Crede and Garland is badly limited by their contract status, so I think Kenny has to seriously shop Konerko. He's our only position player who would bring premium value in trade -- a concept that should give pause to anyone who thinks we're just a player or two away from righting the ship. With the log jam of slow guys, Paulie looks very tradeable to me. Dealing either Dye or Thome isn't going to work, for reasons of contract and age. It's almost got to be Konerko if the Sox are serious about changing the team's mojo. I'd hate to see it, but that's what happens when you're dealing from a position of weakness instead of strength. You have to gamble.

I know people say starting pitching is our strength, but can any of our established starters really be viewed as expendable, given what we've seen from Danks and Floyd (not to mention Gonzalez, Egbert, and Broadway)? Now that's a real gamble. Give me one of those guys in the rotation, not two and god forbid three. If a second one of them gets extremely hot in the spring . . . well, only then are you in a real position of strength.

What about Contreras, you ask? I think he's close to untradeable with that contract and last year's performance. No way JR eats any substantial part of the money, and no way a team gives us anything of value unless the contract is drastically discounted. He showed enough in September to make me think they'll give him every chance to make the rotation and, worst case, put him in the pen. We could give up a hell of a lot in trade to get bullpen help that might not be anywhere near as good as Jose when he's healthy. But if some team is crazy enough to eat that whole contract, he gawn. I pretty much don't care who we get in return, and if he returns to form somewhere else, I'll still think it was smart to shed the contract.

From what we know about Kenny, I don't see him tinkering around the margins with this team. Hell, he rolled the dice after they won WS05, so he's not going to shy away after the 2007 suckfest.

Vernam

Sockinchisox
10-18-2007, 09:17 PM
Hard to resist a thread with such a great title . . . I think the emergence of Fields creates a log jam that Kenny just has to break. If people thought we were slow before, imagine having Fields or Crede

Fields was playing with a bad hammy this year, if it's feeling fine next year, he's going to steal 10-15 bases and can easily go from 1st to 3rd on a single.

WhiteSox5187
10-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Trading Contreras for Furcal is better. Both team would take a risk and Contreras might do better in the NL. You would place Furcal at SS and Sign Luis Castillo to play 2nd.That would be great speed at the top of your lineup.Castillo hitting 1st then Furcal.
I love the idea of a an infield with those two guys up the middle, but I think that Richar is going be our second baseman in 2008

Man Soo Lee
10-19-2007, 01:01 AM
Again from my very good and legit sources... and those who PM'd me last week know who they are....

An expanded trade could be more intriguing... If the Dodgers back off of Contreras I've been informed a blockbuster could go down...it would be...

Sox send: Jon Garland, Joe Crede and prospect

Sox get: Furcal, Matt Kemp and either Chad Billingsley or Jonathan Broxton...

I think your sources must speak in deep pink.