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Lip Man 1
10-17-2007, 09:27 AM
First one I've seen with quotes. Some encouraging news...some discouraging news. (at least in my opinion)

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/606414,101707sox.article

Lip

eriqjaffe
10-17-2007, 09:34 AM
Hopefully, the "two bullpen holes" will be left-handed relievers and right-handed relievers.

itsnotrequired
10-17-2007, 09:41 AM
"Now, Ozzie said, 'I want to do some things different (that) I've always wanted to.' Ozzie is a real street-smart baseball player. Over the last few years, as an offense, we've been more plodding. He's looking forward to implementing his style."

Is this just a stock quote that is rolled out every season?

kittle42
10-17-2007, 10:05 AM
As Williams preached at the end of the season, most of the lineup will return with the hope that 2007 was a fluke. The starting rotation could stay intact unless a trade comes along, while the bullpen might see only two holes filled.

Yes, the best way to improve one of the worst teams in baseball is to keep 90% of the same personnel.

WhiteSox5187
10-17-2007, 10:09 AM
I think the core of the lineup with guys like Konerko, JD, Thome and AJ is fine...but we need the guys around those four to get on base OFTEN. That was the difference between 2005 and '06 and '07. It seemed like every time Paulie came up he had runners on base to drive in. In 2006 not so much. In 2007 hardly at all...there's a lot more work to be done with this team than Kenny wants to admit I think.

itsnotrequired
10-17-2007, 10:16 AM
That was the difference between 2005 and '06 and '07. It seemed like every time Paulie came up he had runners on base to drive in. In 2006 not so much. In 2007 hardly at all...there's a lot more work to be done with this team than Kenny wants to admit I think.

Konerko had the exact same number of plate appearences with runners on in 2007 as in 2005 (298). In 2006, he had 323. As for PAs with RISP, that number has actually INCREASED from 2005 to 2007 (168, 171, 172).

Konerko hit .246 with RISP in 2005...he hit .260 in 2007.

SBSoxFan
10-17-2007, 10:21 AM
Yes, the best way to improve one of the worst teams in baseball is to keep 90% of the same personnel.

You also can't replace 90% of the personnel.

We'd be idiots to assume that everyone will bounce back. We're looking to improve, and at the same time, have those guys turn it around." - Don Cooper

Lip Man 1
10-17-2007, 11:12 AM
But you may be able to replace half of it...or a third of it.

Right now, based on impressions, they may not even do that.. so I understand Kittle's point of view. This is a concern to me also.

I'll reserve judgement until later in the off season on this.

Lip

Hokiesox
10-17-2007, 11:21 AM
I don't understand how our slower players are going to be able to take extra bases. I'm all for being more aggressive. But not with players who have less than 5 stolen bases in the last 5 years. It'll be fun to see them try, but I'm going to cover my eyes in the early going.

Flight #24
10-17-2007, 11:26 AM
I'm still holding out hope for one big move and 2 smaller ones (bullpen). That big move could be a CF or an SS, but I think this team needs at least one big move, not just a handful of smaller tweaks.

upperdeckusc
10-17-2007, 11:27 AM
But you may be able to replace half of it...or a third of it.

Right now, based on impressions, they may not even do that.. so I understand Kittle's point of view. This is a concern to me also.

I'll reserve judgement until later in the off season on this.

Lip

....i think the only way 1/3 of the lineup gets replaced is if we trade guys like garland and konerko and get 2-3 guys back for each trade and trade bullpen guys like macdougal/logan/thornton for solid bench players. i think we can easily get a SP/SS/CF/2-3 bullpen guys if we trade konerko and garland. 3 huge wholes are addressed right there, and we can move fields to 1B, and we have some options for SP as well. im not saying we trade them for a bag of balls, but if the right deal is presented (konerko to LA for shields, brandon wood, and kotchman/SP, garland to LA for chin lu hu and a SP, etc). just my 2 cents...

cbrownson13
10-17-2007, 11:40 AM
Ozzie is looking forward to implementing his style? What the hell has been going on the past four years?

salty99
10-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Ozzie is looking forward to implementing his style? What the hell has been going on the past four years?

I was thinking the same thing.

jabrch
10-17-2007, 12:10 PM
But you may be able to replace half of it...or a third of it.

How many teams turn over half their roster in one offseason and then contend?

If we are going to rebuild, I'd rather do it the right way, scrap what we have, take our lumps, and rebuild completely. I'm tolerant - if there is a plan. I'll be renewing my season tickets (8 fulls + 4 Hit and Run) regardless of what goes on. I'd like to either believe we are a contender this year, or believe we are rebuilding for the future. But dumping half the roster would require KW to back off of his statements that he thinks we are able to contend next year. I don't see that. To contend next year we will need to make a few moves, and then avoid the injuries that we had this year.

Grzegorz
10-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Moving Fields to first base scares the bejezus out of me.

chisoxmike
10-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Moving Fields to first base scares the bejezus out of me.

The idea of him in left field is already a nightmare.

FedEx227
10-17-2007, 12:15 PM
Is this just a stock quote that is rolled out every season?

I heard they are going to be practicing sac-bunts this year in spring training. Everyone is going to learn how to bunt.

YES! Ozzie-ball is finally ready!

BainesHOF
10-17-2007, 01:01 PM
Moving Fields to first base scares the bejezus out of me.

Fields is a first baseman. He surely isn't a third baseman or a left fielder, not for a championship team anyway.

It's extremely disappointing to hear the organization willing to gamble that 2007 was a fluke. Considering we didn't play well in the second half of 2006 either, I think a year and a half has provided more than enough evidence that the team does in fact need a major overhaul. To think otherwise, I think, is some sort of psychological need to redeem the plan that caused us to be so bad for the last year and a half.

We're doomed if we go into 2008 with all the plodding players we currently have on the roster.

BPNumber19
10-17-2007, 01:01 PM
Yes, the best way to improve one of the worst teams in baseball is to keep 90% of the same personnel.

I'm with you. It was no accident the Sox finished with 90 losses. They finished exactly where they deserved to finish based on merit. Memo to KW; if you're going to move Garland, trade him for proven major leaguers who can help, not one or two prospects with a one in a thousand chance to be productive major leaguers. Speaking of prospects, look at what the Indians and Rockies and D-Backs have done. Why is it when we play the Indians, Twins, Tigers, etc. their young players beat our brains out while the kids we call up look absolutely clueless (Brian Anderson). The farm system needs rebuilding. Danks and Floyd aren't the answers. MacDougal, Thornton, Masset, Aardsma, Day, Bukvich are garbage. We also need productive #1 and 2 hitters. Yeah, let's keep 90% of the team. Good luck in 08!

jabrch
10-17-2007, 01:36 PM
Fields is a first baseman. He surely isn't a third baseman or a left fielder, not for a championship team anyway.

I don't see how you can possibly draw that conclusion. Ive seen worse defensive LF and 3B who have won championships.

russ99
10-17-2007, 01:50 PM
I don't understand how our slower players are going to be able to take extra bases. I'm all for being more aggressive. But not with players who have less than 5 stolen bases in the last 5 years. It'll be fun to see them try, but I'm going to cover my eyes in the early going.

No kidding, especially one player in particular, Konerko. He has to be one of the slowest players in the majors.

We should all pitch in and get Paulie a treadmill for the offseason! :D:

The Immigrant
10-17-2007, 01:58 PM
Moving Fields to first base scares the bejezus out of me.

Moving Victor Martinez to first base seems to have worked out just fine for Cleveland, and the move should be easier for a third baseman like Fields.

FedEx227
10-17-2007, 02:00 PM
Moving Victor Martinez to first base seems to have worked out just fine for Cleveland, and the move should be easier for a third baseman like Fields.

Um, you might want to watch some Cleveland games. Victor is behind the plate again, Garko at first.

He played 121 games at catcher this year, only 30 at first.

chisoxmike
10-17-2007, 02:14 PM
Um, you might want to watch some Cleveland games. Victor is behind the plate again, Garko at first.

He played 121 games at catcher this year, only 30 at first.

Martinez played first base last night.

FedEx227
10-17-2007, 02:19 PM
But he's still making it seem like Martinez is a mainstay at first base, which he isn't. That was more or less a byproduct of Wakefield pitching. Martinez has been a catcher all season this year because he improved his throwing and game-calling in the offseason.

The Immigrant
10-17-2007, 02:42 PM
But he's still making it seem like Martinez is a mainstay at first base, which he isn't.

Lighten up, Francis. My point is simply that Martinez is doing fine at first base when he plays there. From what I've seen so far, he could play a full season at first.

upperdeckusc
10-17-2007, 03:59 PM
for a 3b, a move to 1b would be a lot easier than a move to any OF position. 100% guaranteed no doubts about it. the responsibilites are similiar (cutoffs, groundballs, etc) in comparison to these new ones he'd have in the OF (reading fly balls, depth perception, warning tracks, fences, etc). if you can get a healthy return for konerko and it doesnt involve kotchman, i'd fully support fields at 1b.

SOXPHILE
10-17-2007, 04:16 PM
I just hope one of the lessons they learned is, when you want to make improvements to your bullpen, don't go get Kansas City's.

DumpJerry
10-17-2007, 04:23 PM
I'm still of the opinion that 2007 was a fluke. We experienced a perfect storm of injuries which prevented the chemistry to solidify and do its thing. If we can get back to the (reletively) injury-free days of the prior years, we should be fine. I'm also of the opinion, and have been since August or so, that this year was actually a great year for the Sox in the long run. Since mid-May we had AAA and bench guys starting (hence the losing record). As a result, we now have a bunch of AAA and bench guys with a ton of Big Show experience which will be beneficial to them and the team down the road.

Hokiesox
10-17-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm still of the opinion that 2007 was a fluke. We experienced a perfect storm of injuries which prevented the chemistry to solidify and do its thing. If we can get back to the (reletively) injury-free days of the prior years, we should be fine. I'm also of the opinion, and have been since August or so, that this year was actually a great year for the Sox in the long run. Since mid-May we had AAA and bench guys starting (hence the losing record). As a result, we now have a bunch of AAA and bench guys with a ton of Big Show experience which will be beneficial to them and the team down the road.

Injuries don't decrease when the age of a team increases.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-17-2007, 06:13 PM
for a 3b, a move to 1b would be a lot easier than a move to any OF position. 100% guaranteed no doubts about it. the responsibilites are similiar (cutoffs, groundballs, etc) in comparison to these new ones he'd have in the OF (reading fly balls, depth perception, warning tracks, fences, etc). if you can get a healthy return for konerko and it doesnt involve kotchman, i'd fully support fields at 1b.

I've thought that Fields should move to first as well. But that said, I would not be opposed to seeing Dye moved to first. He's a great athlete and can throw some leather. He would make a nice, big target at 1B for our infielders. That effectively would keep Fields in LF. You couldn't have Fields and Dye at the corners and expect too much defensively.

Daver
10-17-2007, 06:18 PM
I've thought that Fields should move to first as well. But that said, I would not be opposed to seeing Dye moved to first. He's a great athlete and can throw some leather. He would make a nice, big target at 1B for our infielders. That effectively would keep Fields in LF. You couldn't have Fields and Dye at the corners and expect too much defensively.

You'd rather concede runs in left than at third, where he actually does have some ability?

ode to veeck
10-17-2007, 06:20 PM
the only way Fields plays anywhere but third is if he's injured or Joe Crede miraculously returns

JB98
10-17-2007, 06:21 PM
2007 a fluke?

Yes and no. I don't expect Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski to all have down years in 2008, as they did in 2007. It's reasonable for the organization to think all those guys will rebound. I hope that's what they're referring to when they're talking about flukes and bad luck.

The bullpen for the most part stinks. It needs an overhaul. There was nothing fluky about the failure out there this season. There was nothing fluky about Pods, Erstad and Crede getting hurt either. We knew they were all injury risks coming into the year.

With Fields being around, we're protected at 3B if Crede gets hurt again in 2008. Those outfield spots NEED to be addressed however. We need help from outside the organization in the outfield, especially if they're going to enter the season with Richar and Uribe as the DP combo. Those are two weak bats right there. You can't have weak bats at SS, 2B, CF AND LF and expect to contend, as we learned during this 90-loss campaign.

Hitmen77
10-17-2007, 09:39 PM
2007 a fluke?

Yes and no. I don't expect Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski to all have down years in 2008, as they did in 2007. It's reasonable for the organization to think all those guys will rebound. I hope that's what they're referring to when they're talking about flukes and bad luck.

The bullpen for the most part stinks. It needs an overhaul. There was nothing fluky about the failure out there this season. There was nothing fluky about Pods, Erstad and Crede getting hurt either. We knew they were all injury risks coming into the year.

With Fields being around, we're protected at 3B if Crede gets hurt again in 2008. Those outfield spots NEED to be addressed however. We need help from outside the organization in the outfield, especially if they're going to enter the season with Richar and Uribe as the DP combo. Those are two weak bats right there. You can't have weak bats at SS, 2B, CF AND LF and expect to contend, as we learned during this 90-loss campaign.

I agree about the yes and no.

The Sox can't fix everything in one offseason, so part of their success will rely on Dye and Konerko playing more like they did in the 2nd half of '07 than in the 1st half. Thome's '07 production would be fine on a contending team and I think we can live with the occasional short term injuries. But what we need is for him to avoid extended time on the DL. Then there's Crede and we all know what a healthy Crede means to this ballclub. A lot of question marks, but not much KW can do about for '08.

I agree with what you said about the bullpen and the weak bats in the rest of the lineup. There is nothing flukey about that. I know the reality is that the Sox won't have the resources to go out and acquire 5 new established bullpen arms. The best we can hope for is to land maybe 2 established arms. The Sox also need to do something to bolster SS, 2B, LF, or CF. As you said too many weak bats. I like Richar and Owens well enough, but I don't know if I feel confident going into '08 with Uribe, Richar, and Owens all in our starting lineup.

upperdeckusc
10-17-2007, 11:19 PM
Please. While I would not move Garland (or Konerko) for Furcal, I would HARDLY call Garland one of the better pitchers in the AL. I can name 10-20 off the top of my head I would take of JG. Garland is an above average pitcher, not a GREAT pitcher let alone anything resembling a number 1.

Last year we saw what happens when Garland doesnt get a boatload of run support. You take away his W-L and he had a BETTER YEAR in 2007 then he did in 2006 when he won 18 games. He has had 1 year with an era under 4 or a whip under 1.2 He has NEVER struck out more then 120 guys in a season. He has a career 4.41 era and 1.32 whip and not even a 2:1 K:BB ratio. The one dependable thing about Garland is he gives you 200 innings and a sub 5 era every year. Thats it. I don't know why people buy into this MYTH he is this phenom pither or anything above a good number 3 or 4 sp (on a winning team) but thats what he is. If you go into a year with Garland as a 1 or 2, you have BIG poblems, and why you think teams would pay for Garland as a number 1 is beyond me. The year to do that was 2005 after the world series when he had his career year coming into a contract year. People get so confused when it comes to pitchers and wins.

I am by no means a Jon Garland hater, but I am a realist with him. He won't out pitch the number 2 starter on most teams. You dont win 36 games in 2 years by being a bad pitcher, but you also dont post a career ERA in the mid 4s and Career whip over 1.3 by being one of the top in baseball, or even the AL.

took the words out of my mouth. 30 starts 200 innings bla bla bla. he will never be better than a #3 unless he's on the nationals. he gets way overrated on here cuz he plays for the sox and actually came from our system (although drafted by the cubs). in his contract yr, i'm all for trading him for help with a glaring whole. garland for furcal & a bullpen guy or a high prospect SP and you can have him. at least with furcal he fills SS, leadoff, and we'd also get a pitcher in return. if not a SP, then furcal and cash. i'd just rather trade him in the winter instead of when baseball starts, cuz the closer the trade deadline gets, the less his value gets.

BainesHOF
10-18-2007, 03:08 AM
I don't see how you can possibly draw that conclusion. Ive seen worse defensive LF and 3B who have won championships.

Who?

LauraJ14
10-18-2007, 08:50 AM
Manny in LF

JB98
10-18-2007, 01:18 PM
took the words out of my mouth. 30 starts 200 innings bla bla bla. he will never be better than a #3 unless he's on the nationals. he gets way overrated on here cuz he plays for the sox and actually came from our system (although drafted by the cubs). in his contract yr, i'm all for trading him for help with a glaring whole. garland for furcal & a bullpen guy or a high prospect SP and you can have him. at least with furcal he fills SS, leadoff, and we'd also get a pitcher in return. if not a SP, then furcal and cash. i'd just rather trade him in the winter instead of when baseball starts, cuz the closer the trade deadline gets, the less his value gets.

Garland is nothing but a #3 bla bla bla.

Trade Garland off this team and guess who our No. 3 is: Jose Contreras. Do you like that? I sure don't.

And if we do trade Garland, we better get more than Furcal. I might move the ancient, broken-down Contreras for Furcal, but certainly not Garland.

BainesHOF
10-18-2007, 03:19 PM
Manny in LF

I'm afraid Josh is worse.

I think Manny is a tad underrated in left. I've seen him make some good plays and don't see him botch too many.

SaltyPretzel
10-18-2007, 03:38 PM
for a 3b, a move to 1b would be a lot easier than a move to any OF position. 100% guaranteed no doubts about it. the responsibilites are similiar (cutoffs, groundballs, etc) in comparison to these new ones he'd have in the OF (reading fly balls, depth perception, warning tracks, fences, etc). if you can get a healthy return for konerko and it doesnt involve kotchman, i'd fully support fields at 1b.

In support of your idea, wasn't Konerko originally a 3rd baseman?

itsnotrequired
10-18-2007, 03:40 PM
In support of your idea, wasn't Konerko originally a 3rd baseman?

He was originally a catcher in the minors but made some starts at third and left before settling in at first base. He has only played third base 29 times in his major league career and hasn't played there since 2000.

jabrch
10-18-2007, 04:24 PM
In support of your idea, wasn't Konerko originally a 3rd baseman?

A Catcher I thought...

johnr1note
10-18-2007, 04:36 PM
I'm afraid Josh is worse.

I think Manny is a tad underrated in left. I've seen him make some good plays and don't see him botch too many.

Manny has something Josh doesn't -- a hall of fame caliber bat. Granted, Josh is still developing, but I don't see him in Manny's orbit anytime soon.

johnr1note
10-18-2007, 04:45 PM
2007 a fluke?

Yes and no. I don't expect Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski to all have down years in 2008, as they did in 2007. It's reasonable for the organization to think all those guys will rebound. I hope that's what they're referring to when they're talking about flukes and bad luck.

The bullpen for the most part stinks. It needs an overhaul. There was nothing fluky about the failure out there this season. There was nothing fluky about Pods, Erstad and Crede getting hurt either. We knew they were all injury risks coming into the year.

With Fields being around, we're protected at 3B if Crede gets hurt again in 2008. Those outfield spots NEED to be addressed however. We need help from outside the organization in the outfield, especially if they're going to enter the season with Richar and Uribe as the DP combo. Those are two weak bats right there. You can't have weak bats at SS, 2B, CF AND LF and expect to contend, as we learned during this 90-loss campaign.

Yes, we need a bullpen overhaul.. I'm not sure where that starts.

We also need table setters. Guys who can get on base. We won in 2005 because the Pods/Iguchi combination got on base ahead of the big bats, and the lower part of the order (Crede, Uribe, AJ) were productive enough to both get on base and drive runners in. There wasn't anything like that in 2007.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-18-2007, 05:53 PM
You'd rather concede runs in left than at third, where he actually does have some ability?

No, I'd rather have Crede at third. If Crede comes back, and hopefully he will, that puts Fields in LF, or at 1B if Konerko is traded. I'm not writing off Crede at this point in time. If that changes, Crede should move to 3B.