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View Full Version : Hats off, Hal!


chisoxfanatic
10-15-2007, 10:01 PM
I just read Hal's latest Fallen Arches column, and I must say that it ranks in my top 3 ever for his column. Isn't it so true?

We DID get our's just a mere 2 years ago! That alone can put this Sox fan at peace at least.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 10:18 PM
:iron

"Ask me views on the past..."

Unfortunately, the 1400+ posts in the Cubs-Diamondbacks game threads on WSI (and subsequent postgame threads) does little to dispel the myth that Sox fans have an unhealthy obsession with the Cubs.

...and that 1400+ count doesn't even count the other 1000 or so posts about the Cubs during that week.

MarySwiss
10-15-2007, 10:33 PM
:iron

"Ask me views on the past..."

Unfortunately, the 1400+ posts in the Cubs-Diamondbacks game threads on WSI (and subsequent postgame threads) does little to dispel the myth that Sox fans have an unhealthy obsession with the Cubs.

...and that 1400+ count doesn't even count the other 1000 or so posts about the Cubs during that week.

And what does the fact that you are tracking these posts mean?

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 10:34 PM
And what does the fact that you are tracking these posts mean?

It took me all of 30 seconds to total them up.

MarySwiss
10-15-2007, 10:39 PM
It took me all of 30 seconds to total them up.

Not exactly an answer, is it?

It seems to me that a person who scorns these kinds of threads/posts/columns as much as you say you do would ignore them. But you seem to be as interested in them as any of us, although disdaining your interest/proclaiming your scorn.

Whatever. Ever been wrong?

TornLabrum
10-15-2007, 10:46 PM
As usual my point has been misssed. According to the media, Cubs fans couldn't care less about the Sox or what their fans think. Seems to me that's just another media myth.

BTW, play nice or I'll send you to your rooms.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 10:47 PM
Not exactly an answer, is it?

It seems to me that a person who scorns these kinds of threads/posts/columns as much as you say you do would ignore them. But you seem to be as interested in them as any of us, although disdaining your interest/proclaiming your scorn.

Whatever.

"Tracking" the posts would imply I am keeping some type of running tally. All I did was look at the post totals in the game threads. I'm not actively following anything.

Maybe it is because I didn't grow up in Chicago and don't "get" the chip on the shoulder that many Sox fans seem to have in regards to the Cubs or maybe it is because I don't get that concerned with a team that isn't even in the same league as the Sox. Beats me.

I figured that a WS win would have put an end to any Cub-Sox "rivalry" nonsense but I guess I was wrong...

EDIT: Hal, I made my post before I saw yours. I'm not trying to stir up trouble. I would say that I don't see how one guy e-mailing you demonstrates that Cub fans care about the Sox as much as the myth that Sox fans care about the Cubs.

chisoxfanatic
10-15-2007, 10:54 PM
Maybe it is because I didn't grow up in Chicago and don't "get" the chip on the shoulder that many Sox fans seem to have in regards to the Cubs or maybe it is because I don't get that concerned with a team that isn't even in the same league as the Sox. Beats me.
I think you've answered it for yourself. It's something that only those of us who grew up in a two-teamed market would understand. Most people from places where there's only one (or no) team don't grasp the concept, because they were never exposed to it from the get-go.

voodoochile
10-15-2007, 11:00 PM
Wish I knew how to post that little dude eating a tub of popcorn...

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 11:01 PM
I think you've answered it for yourself. It's something that only those of us who grew up in a two-teamed market would understand. Most people from places where there's only one (or no) team don't grasp the concept, because they were never exposed to it from the get-go.

I would be curious to see if Mets and Athletics fans have similar feelings toward the more popular teams they share a city with. I suppose the comparison isn't exactly the same as Sox-Cubs have shared a city for over 100 years where the other cities have had much shorter "rivalries". Still, Mets-Yankees is up to 45 years now. That seems like a long enough time to develop a bad taste for the other team.

It also seems a lot of this Sox fan disdain for the Cubs started after the Tribune bought the team. What was it like back in the 60s or 70s? DId fans feel the same way?

ilsox7
10-15-2007, 11:03 PM
It also seems a lot of this Sox fan disdain for the Cubs started after the Tribune bought the team. What was it like back in the 60s or 70s? DId fans feel the same way?

I'm a 3rd generation Sox fan and I was brought up, as my dad was, considering the Sox winning and the Cubs losing as the perfect baseball day. Winning in 2005 pretty much made that moot for both my dad and I. Now the Cubs are pretty much just, m'eh, for us. In fact, when the Cubs eventually win it all, I will be the first one to congratulate a friend or two, b/c I know how they will feel. I told them after 2005 I hope one day they could get the same joy from their team that I did during that magical season.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 11:05 PM
Wish I knew how to post that little dude eating a tub of popcorn...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/cbotnyse/smiley/popcorn.gif

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 11:06 PM
I'm a 3rd generation Sox fan and I was brought up, as my dad was, considering the Sox winning and the Cubs losing as the perfect baseball day. Winning in 2005 pretty much made that moot for both my dad and I. Now the Cubs are pretty much just, m'eh, for us. In fact, when the Cubs eventually win it all, I will be the first one to congratulate a friend or two, b/c I know how they will feel. I told them after 2005 I hope one day they could get the same joy from their team that I did during that magical season.

But was it this bitter? I see some posts/office talk/overheard conversations that seem way over the top, especially after 2005.

Chisox003
10-15-2007, 11:21 PM
I'm a 3rd generation Sox fan and I was brought up, as my dad was, considering the Sox winning and the Cubs losing as the perfect baseball day. Winning in 2005 pretty much made that moot for both my dad and I. Now the Cubs are pretty much just, m'eh, for us. In fact, when the Cubs eventually win it all, I will be the first one to congratulate a friend or two, b/c I know how they will feel. I told them after 2005 I hope one day they could get the same joy from their team that I did during that magical season.
I'd definitely have to agree with this. If/when the Cubs win a World Series, I'll feel good for friends I have who love them as much as I do the Sox. But there was about a 2 week span on this site where everything in WTS was about the Cubs. To me, that's just embarrassing.

I can definitely see where INR is coming from...the amount of Cubs stuff on this site sometimes is ridiculous. Some posters don't even comment on the Sox anymore. It's almost like they're more anti-Cubs than anything. Oh well, it's their own time they're wasting. :dunno:

GoSox2K3
10-15-2007, 11:24 PM
"Ask me views on the past..."

Unfortunately, the 1400+ posts in the Cubs-Diamondbacks game threads on WSI (and subsequent postgame threads) does little to dispel the myth that Sox fans have an unhealthy obsession with the Cubs.

...and that 1400+ count doesn't even count the other 1000 or so posts about the Cubs during that week.

So? The Cubs were a significant Chicago baseball story during the NLDS. Are we so Flubsessed-sessed that we can't even talk about them during their appearance in the playoffs?

ilsox7
10-15-2007, 11:26 PM
But was it this bitter? I see some posts/office talk/overheard conversations that seem way over the top, especially after 2005.

I don't understand the bitterness now. I can understand it leading up to 2005 as it kind of was a race between the two teams in this city. But now, I think folks ought to just be concerned about themselves and their team.

The anti-Cubs rooting this October kind of puzzled me. I was rooting for the D-Backs, not against the Cubs. And I was happy the D-Backs won b/c they were the better team. And it also led to a neat match-up in the NLCS, where I am now rooting for the Rockies.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 11:27 PM
So? The Cubs were a significant Chicago baseball story during the NLDS. Are we so Flubsessed-sessed that we can't even talk about them during their appearance in the playoffs?

I never suggested not talking about them at all. After all, it is a team in the postseason and should be discussed like any other postseason team. But is their series worth TEN TIMES the number of posts as the Indians-Yankees series, two teams in the same league as the Sox and one of which is in the same division? I could understand two, three, four times as many posts as it is a Chicago team but TEN? I can't even imagine how nuts it would have gotten had the Cubs made it to the NLCS.

ilsox7
10-15-2007, 11:28 PM
So? The Cubs were a significant Chicago baseball story during the NLDS. Are we so Flubsessed-sessed that we can't even talk about them during their appearance in the playoffs?

I don't think it's necessarily the discussion about baseball games (which the Cubs were a part of), but the intense rooting against the Cubs and the media threads and the "I'm going to rub it into my coworkers when the Cubs lose even though if they did the same thing to me I'd come to WSI and start a thread about it" type behavior that is annoying.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 11:31 PM
I don't understand the bitterness now. I can understand it leading up to 2005 as it kind of was a race between the two teams in this city. But now, I think folks ought to just be concerned about themselves and their team.

The anti-Cubs rooting this October kind of puzzled me. I was rooting for the D-Backs, not against the Cubs. And I was happy the D-Backs won b/c they were the better team. And it also led to a neat match-up in the NLCS, where I am now rooting for the Rockies.

I'm not really rooting for anyone in the NL. I'm not rooting against anyone either though. The NLCS matchup right now is fantastic though with all the young players. There is something like 35 of the 50 players on the Rockies-Diamondbacks combined rosters that were drafted and developed by the respective teams. In other words, they haven't gotten a paycheck from any other organization, even in the minors. Pretty cool...

ilsox7
10-15-2007, 11:32 PM
I'm not really rooting for anyone in the NL. I'm not rooting against anyone either though. The NLCS matchup right now is fantastic with all the young players. There is something like 35 of the 50 players on the Rockies-Diamondbacks combined rosters that were drafted and developed by the respective teams. In other words, they haven't gotten a paycheck from any other organization, even in the minors. Pretty cool...

About the only thing I am rooting for now is the Red Sox losing and good baseball games. I would love to see the Rockies win it all as it'd be a great story and Denver is a cool city.

JB98
10-15-2007, 11:46 PM
I don't understand the bitterness now. I can understand it leading up to 2005 as it kind of was a race between the two teams in this city. But now, I think folks ought to just be concerned about themselves and their team.

The anti-Cubs rooting this October kind of puzzled me. I was rooting for the D-Backs, not against the Cubs. And I was happy the D-Backs won b/c they were the better team. And it also led to a neat match-up in the NLCS, where I am now rooting for the Rockies.

Here's my take on it: When we won the World Series in 2005, we gained the ultimate trump card in terms of bragging rights. The score is now Sox fans 1, Cubs fans 0. Personally, I don't deny enjoying that. Since the Sox were bad this year and unable to extend that lead, I wanted to see the lead protected. Therefore, I rooted against the Cubs in the playoffs.

In addition, I seem to know an inordinate amount of insufferable Cub fans. The ones who call you and taunt you, demanding that you respect their 85-win juggernaut. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for many of these people. I think it's kind of funny that they have to wear a 99-year championship drought.

Brian26
10-16-2007, 12:15 AM
Maybe it is because I didn't grow up in Chicago and don't "get" the chip on the shoulder that many Sox fans seem to have in regards to the Cubs or maybe it is because I don't get that concerned with a team that isn't even in the same league as the Sox. Beats me.

You weren't around in 1988 when the Sox were an eyelash away from leaving town. It happened at least two other times in the 70's. In a baseball sense, a lot of fans are scarred from those incidents, and a lot of the paranoia originates from that. Even though some people will point towards Reinsdorf as being the culprint because of his stadium demands in '88, the underlying issue was television and the declining fan base.

The Cubs/Sox rivalry will always exist as long as the media in this town shows favoritism towards the northside product. The chip on the shoulder, at least to me, is an underlying fear that the Sox could still, someday, be driven out of town, even though it sounds crazy right now.

Just because a team wins the World Series, they aren't guaranteed from suffering at the gate in later years. The Florida Marlins have won two World titles and they are still constantly talked about in terms of contraction or re-location.

RadioheadRocks
10-16-2007, 12:18 AM
You weren't around in 1988 when the Sox were an eyelash away from leaving town. It happened at least two other times in the 70's. In a baseball sense, a lot of fans are scarred from those incidents, and a lot of the paranoia originates from that. Even though some people will point towards Reinsdorf as being the culprint because of his stadium demands in '88, the underlying issue was television and the declining fan base.

The Cubs/Sox rivalry will always exist as long as the media in this town shows favoritism towards the northside product. The chip on the shoulder, at least to me, is an underlying fear that the Sox could still, someday, be driven out of town, even though it sounds crazy right now.

Just because a team wins the World Series, they aren't guaranteed from suffering at the gate in later years. The Florida Marlins have won two World titles and they are still constantly talked about in terms of contraction of re-location.

Very well said, Brian!

Brian26
10-16-2007, 12:22 AM
Very well said, Brian!

Thanks. I'm guessing other people have the same feelings, even if they might be somewhat guarded. You often hear people talking about "the Sox lost all of the ground they made up in 2005" or "if we could just string a few playoff seasons together." It all points towards some underlying fear that we're going to lose our team because of those bastards up north.

MarySwiss
10-16-2007, 12:36 AM
BTW, play nice or I'll send you to your rooms.

Point taken. And my apology to INR for being unduly snide. Totally uncalled for. However, I did get out of bed and power up in order to post this apology before I ever saw Hal's post. My guilty conscience kicked in, I guess. Took long enough.

But about the chip on the shoulder. Having grown up in Chicago, for the most part on the North Side, I second what others have said. That chip is there because of the history, reasonable or not.

johnr1note
10-16-2007, 01:10 AM
I will echo Brian26's and MarySwiss's sentiments.

When I was a little kid (back before the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the early 60s), the White Sox ruled Chicago, and the Chicago media. We outdrew the Cubs by tens of thousands. We had a better on field product by far. Cubs? Cubs fans? What were they? Despite our inability to see the White Sox win the pennant, all was well in our local baseball world.

In the course of a single baseball season, all that changed, or, at least the course of things changed. The 1967 Cubs were on a positive upswing for the first time since 1946. The 67 White Sox were a tight, nervous bunch who lost a wonderful pennant opportunity on the last weekend of the season. The 68 Cubs were contenders. The 68 White Sox fell on thier faces. This concided with political rallies and riots that made the South Side of chicago feel unsafe, and people started coming the conclusion that Comiskey Park was in a "bad neighborhood." It was the beginning of a long dark night for us.

As Brian noted, the Sox were nearly sold and relocated several times. Once in 1969 to Milwaukee. Again in the mid 70s, this time to Seattle. Then came the real threat, in 1989, when Reinsdorf said "Fund my stadium, or we take the team to Tampa." What harrowing times to be a Sox fan.

And since at least 1992, possibly since 1989, the Cubs have been the media darlings. I resent it, because we usually put a better product on the field, and we have a fan base that actually cares about baseball, not just drinking beer, sitting in the sun, and staring at college girls in tube tops. (Please note I preceded that with the word "just.").

I don't hate Cubs fans, or the Cubs really, but i despise what "Cubdom" represents, and what the media circus the Cubs have become. For that reason, I can never pull for the Cubs. Ever. And I hope they never win the pennant or the series, because that will only exacerbate these things I despise.

Chip on the shoulder? You betcha! But I come by my chip honestly. The overall stupidity, self righteousness, self obsession, and vapidness of Cubs fans has placed it there.

What I have discovered is that Cubs fans are a lot more volatile since 2005. I believe its because they did indeed consider the White Sox a non-entity. They always believed they would win the world series someday, and that because they have been so loyal to the "lovable losers" all these years, they deserved a championship team. And then lo and behold, the team they have considered a non-entity for decades beats them to the punch. HOW DARE THEY!!! The underlying backlash I see is that Cubs fans believe they deserve to win, and have not, and our team never deserved to win, and we did. They cannot get over that. They also labor under the delusion that because the White Sox won the World Series with "such ease" -- going 11-1 in the post season in 2005, all the Cubs needed to do was get to the playoffs, and such a playoff run would be child's play. These deluded fans were the ones who were sobbing on the curb outside of Wrigley Field after they were eliminated from the playoffs.

One thing I will say for sure -- when the White Sox have lost in the post season, I've seen Sox fans angry, surly, depressed, or withdrawn -- but I have never seen any of them shedding a tear, let along sobbing. The only tears I have seen Sox fans shed was when we won it all n 2005, particularly those of us who remembered parents and grandparents who are no longer with us who missed this incredible event. A grip on reality is a key difference between Cubs and Sox fans.

Its that self obsessed, self righteous arrogance I can't stand. And I can never, ever pull for the Cubs because of that.

For me, this is a prejudice that will die hard. In the Balkans, the Bosnians don't cheer for the Serbs, and the Serbs don't pull for the Croats. The Sunni's don't wave flags for the Shiites. The Palestinians don't cheer for the Israelis. And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.

Professor Snape
10-16-2007, 02:07 AM
And what does the fact that you are tracking these posts mean?


I don't know but I've been chomping at the bit for days and this is what I got:

http://www.oaaa.org/outdoor/facts/images/Outdoor_Exp.jpg

Soxfanspcu11
10-16-2007, 03:26 AM
So? The Cubs were a significant Chicago baseball story during the NLDS. Are we so Flubsessed-sessed that we can't even talk about them during their appearance in the playoffs?

I think what upset a lot of people was the fact that everyone who truly knew baseball, baseball fans, not casual or bandwagon fans, knew that the cubs were not a good team at all. That even if they did indeed make the playoffs, they had absolutely no shot at winning it all.

The fact that the real baseball fans knew it was just a matter of time before the cubs were eliminated were offended by the fact that we had to put up with all the cub talk in the local media. Anyone who truly knew baseball knew that they stood no chance, but the local media would not stop with the "Push for the Pennant" and "Drive to History" talk.

That upset a lot of people, including me, because the local media was really over-zealous and definetely counting their chickens.

The fact that the Sox in 2005 were treated as if they really had no chance to win it all, until they did, where as the cubs were "definetely" going to win it all before the playoffs even started really got under a lot of people's skin. And rightfully so, IMHO.

Grzegorz
10-16-2007, 05:47 AM
I will echo Brian26's and MarySwiss's sentiments.

When I was a little kid (back before the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the early 60s), the White Sox ruled Chicago, and the Chicago media. We outdrew the Cubs by tens of thousands. We had a better on field product by far. Cubs? Cubs fans? What were they? Despite our inability to see the White Sox win the pennant, all was well in our local baseball world.

In the course of a single baseball season, all that changed, or, at least the course of things changed. The 1967 Cubs were on a positive upswing for the first time since 1946. The 67 White Sox were a tight, nervous bunch who lost a wonderful pennant opportunity on the last weekend of the season. The 68 Cubs were contenders. The 68 White Sox fell on thier faces. This concided with political rallies and riots that made the South Side of chicago feel unsafe, and people started coming the conclusion that Comiskey Park was in a "bad neighborhood." It was the beginning of a long dark night for us.

As Brian noted, the Sox were nearly sold and relocated several times. Once in 1969 to Milwaukee. Again in the mid 70s, this time to Seattle. Then came the real threat, in 1989, when Reinsdorf said "Fund my stadium, or we take the team to Tampa." What harrowing times to be a Sox fan.

The decision to have Chicago White Sox move off of WGN in the late '60s set this franchise back immensely.

From free television with an enormously strong signal to a channel that had poor reception was a stupid move.

And some day games would have helped too. The Cubs hooked the 'back from school' kids because of day games. Having a majority of games televised at night, even on WGN, limited the exposure of the Chicago White Sox to their fan base.

itsnotrequired
10-16-2007, 07:27 AM
You weren't around in 1988 when the Sox were an eyelash away from leaving town. It happened at least two other times in the 70's. In a baseball sense, a lot of fans are scarred from those incidents, and a lot of the paranoia originates from that. Even though some people will point towards Reinsdorf as being the culprint because of his stadium demands in '88, the underlying issue was television and the declining fan base.

The Cubs/Sox rivalry will always exist as long as the media in this town shows favoritism towards the northside product. The chip on the shoulder, at least to me, is an underlying fear that the Sox could still, someday, be driven out of town, even though it sounds crazy right now.

Just because a team wins the World Series, they aren't guaranteed from suffering at the gate in later years. The Florida Marlins have won two World titles and they are still constantly talked about in terms of contraction or re-location.

It seems to me that the 70s relocation concerns had nothing to do with the Cubs. My understanding is that through the decades, the more popular team in town shifted depending on how well the team was doing. It wasn't until the Tribune bought the Cubs that their popularity really started to take off, regardless of how they performed. Throw in some broadcasting gaffs by the Sox, silly ownership decisions and the team's popularity suffered. But how much of that can really be attributed to the Cubs?

Point taken. And my apology to INR for being unduly snide. Totally uncalled for. However, I did get out of bed and power up in order to post this apology before I ever saw Hal's post. My guilty conscience kicked in, I guess. Took long enough.

Hey, no problem.

white sox bill
10-16-2007, 07:33 AM
I agree winning it 2 yrs ago killed the rivalry in my eyes. Thats actually 2 World Series up we are now counting the one back in 1917?

Anyway, Cub fans waiting for their title reminds me of starving Ethiopians waiting for their next meal

HerzogVon
10-16-2007, 09:04 AM
I will echo Brian26's and MarySwiss's sentiments.

When I was a little kid (back before the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the early 60s), the White Sox ruled Chicago, and the Chicago media. We outdrew the Cubs by tens of thousands. We had a better on field product by far. Cubs? Cubs fans? What were they? Despite our inability to see the White Sox win the pennant, all was well in our local baseball world.

In the course of a single baseball season, all that changed, or, at least the course of things changed. The 1967 Cubs were on a positive upswing for the first time since 1946. The 67 White Sox were a tight, nervous bunch who lost a wonderful pennant opportunity on the last weekend of the season. The 68 Cubs were contenders. The 68 White Sox fell on thier faces. This concided with political rallies and riots that made the South Side of chicago feel unsafe, and people started coming the conclusion that Comiskey Park was in a "bad neighborhood." It was the beginning of a long dark night for us.

As Brian noted, the Sox were nearly sold and relocated several times. Once in 1969 to Milwaukee. Again in the mid 70s, this time to Seattle. Then came the real threat, in 1989, when Reinsdorf said "Fund my stadium, or we take the team to Tampa." What harrowing times to be a Sox fan.

And since at least 1992, possibly since 1989, the Cubs have been the media darlings. I resent it, because we usually put a better product on the field, and we have a fan base that actually cares about baseball, not just drinking beer, sitting in the sun, and staring at college girls in tube tops. (Please note I preceded that with the word "just.").

I don't hate Cubs fans, or the Cubs really, but i despise what "Cubdom" represents, and what the media circus the Cubs have become. For that reason, I can never pull for the Cubs. Ever. And I hope they never win the pennant or the series, because that will only exacerbate these things I despise.

Chip on the shoulder? You betcha! But I come by my chip honestly. The overall stupidity, self righteousness, self obsession, and vapidness of Cubs fans has placed it there.

What I have discovered is that Cubs fans are a lot more volatile since 2005. I believe its because they did indeed consider the White Sox a non-entity. They always believed they would win the world series someday, and that because they have been so loyal to the "lovable losers" all these years, they deserved a championship team. And then lo and behold, the team they have considered a non-entity for decades beats them to the punch. HOW DARE THEY!!! The underlying backlash I see is that Cubs fans believe they deserve to win, and have not, and our team never deserved to win, and we did. They cannot get over that. They also labor under the delusion that because the White Sox won the World Series with "such ease" -- going 11-1 in the post season in 2005, all the Cubs needed to do was get to the playoffs, and such a playoff run would be child's play. These deluded fans were the ones who were sobbing on the curb outside of Wrigley Field after they were eliminated from the playoffs.

One thing I will say for sure -- when the White Sox have lost in the post season, I've seen Sox fans angry, surly, depressed, or withdrawn -- but I have never seen any of them shedding a tear, let along sobbing. The only tears I have seen Sox fans shed was when we won it all n 2005, particularly those of us who remembered parents and grandparents who are no longer with us who missed this incredible event. A grip on reality is a key difference between Cubs and Sox fans.

Its that self obsessed, self righteous arrogance I can't stand. And I can never, ever pull for the Cubs because of that.

For me, this is a prejudice that will die hard. In the Balkans, the Bosnians don't cheer for the Serbs, and the Serbs don't pull for the Croats. The Sunni's don't wave flags for the Shiites. The Palestinians don't cheer for the Israelis. And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.

That was one of the best posts I have ever read. Allow me to trump you on one point: I grew up in the 50s. For nearly 10 years, all I knew as a Sox fan was success. ( Unlike the Old Man, who had suffered through decades I could not even imagine back then. ) The Sox were the cock-of-the-walk in those years, but I began to notice a shift as far back as 1965. For one thing, Jack Brickhouse's increasing pro-Cubs bias was beginning to show. The papers also began to turn their attention northward. It may have been subtle, but it was there.

This is around the time that I began to hate the Cubs. Then in 1967, when we made that inredible, but ultimately futile run under the best manager the team has ever had, Eddie Stanky , the local as well as the national media just yawned. The former were already well on their way to becoming Cubs obsessed. Contrary to what many here have said, I don't believe that this ever changed. It was one of the reason's that I was less opposed to the move away from Ch.9 than most. At least Jack Drees was OUR announcer, and we no longer had to endure The Brick's somnolence during Sox telecasts.

Of course, the collapse and long nightmare did begin in 1968. That, and the repeated - and very real - threats to move that have been so well documented. No, I will never stop hating the Cubs, or worrying about them. So long as they are in contention, there can be no rest.

MarySwiss
10-16-2007, 09:30 AM
Of course, the collapse and long nightmare did begin in 1968. That, and the repeated - and very real - threats to move that have been so well documented. No, I will never stop hating the Cubs, or worrying about them. So long as they are in contention, there can be no rest.

I think one of the worst things was the threats to move. Seemed like we heard it every couple of years. I was once a big Danny Kaye fan, but I never felt the same way about him after that Seattle threat. I took every one of those threats personally, and I could never really understand why if there are two teams in a city, the threats were always aimed at the better one. If anyone should have moved, IMO, it was the Cubs.

Hitmen77
10-16-2007, 09:38 AM
I don't understand the bitterness now. I can understand it leading up to 2005 as it kind of was a race between the two teams in this city. But now, I think folks ought to just be concerned about themselves and their team.

The anti-Cubs rooting this October kind of puzzled me. I was rooting for the D-Backs, not against the Cubs. And I was happy the D-Backs won b/c they were the better team. And it also led to a neat match-up in the NLCS, where I am now rooting for the Rockies.

Here's my take on it: When we won the World Series in 2005, we gained the ultimate trump card in terms of bragging rights. The score is now Sox fans 1, Cubs fans 0. Personally, I don't deny enjoying that. Since the Sox were bad this year and unable to extend that lead, I wanted to see the lead protected. Therefore, I rooted against the Cubs in the playoffs.

In addition, I seem to know an inordinate amount of insufferable Cub fans. The ones who call you and taunt you, demanding that you respect their 85-win juggernaut. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for many of these people. I think it's kind of funny that they have to wear a 99-year championship drought.

I think JB98 sums it up nicely. My own position on this was that I wasn't maliciously rooting against the Cubs - but I just wanted them eliminated asap just to stop all the gloating by Cub fans and to end the media circus over this 85 win team....and yes I did hear a lot of gloating from Cub fans

My experience in 2005 was that most Sox fans saved their celebrating for when the pennant was clinched. We were happy when we clinched the Central, but there wasn't as much gloating and dancing around drunk like we had won it all. Sox fans had their sights set on the pennant. The media was reluctant to embrace us. As we racked up 99 wins, we were being told that the Sox were likely to just go 3 and out because we only win against bad teams. Yet, as the Cubs won their division almost by default this year, we saw drunken Cub fans take to the streets as if they had one it all and the media has been totally on board with Cubbies Fever the entire way.

Also, I think alot of Sox fans are scarred by what we had to go through in 2003. We really had the Cubs success rubbed in our faces during their initial playoff success. It was humiliating to hear all the crap from people about how Sox fans should root for Cub fans, about how I was "the only Sox fan", the Sox are irrelevant, should be contracted, etc. I think that rightfully left a bitter taste in alot of Sox fans mouths. Of course, thanks to our success in '05, we wouldn't have suffered nearly as much indignity if the Cubs had pulled a "Rockies" this year. This supports what some have said here that, since '05, alot of the bitterness is gone.

In the end, the Cubs performed as I expected in the NLDS. Not because I bitterly think they suck no matter what. But rather because I think the teams in the NL West and East are just much better and had to beat better teams to get to the playoffs. I didn't gloat, but I was relieved that it was over.

DrCrawdad
10-16-2007, 09:52 AM
As usual my point has been missed. According to the media, Cubs fans couldn't care less about the Sox or what their fans think. Seems to me that's just another media myth.

They often state that they "couldn't care less about the Sox..." but then talk about the Sox. Their ability to talk out of both sides of their ... mouths ... is interesting.

In the Sox newsgroup I had a discussion with a Cubbie fan (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.baseball.chi-whitesox/browse_thread/thread/829ba3ff46616c8a/49159026d5e59960?hl=en&) who made the boast, "The Cub fans I know ignore the Sox." This was after the very same boastful Cubbie fan admitted lurking here at WhiteSoxInteractive.

As you've stated it's a media myth and there is no slaying this myth. As demonstrated in my arguement with Cubbie fan Joe, facts and proof mean absolutely nothing to them.

I absolutely agreed with Richard Roeper's column about the '07 Cubbies before their quick exit from the playoffs. And I only rubbed the Cubbies being swept away in the face of one Cubbie fan.


PS Hi, Cubbie fan Joe! How did this taunting boast (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.baseball.chi-whitesox/msg/c8d9d6af3dafa796?dmode=source) turn-out for you?

I think I'm done here. My last words on this will be a paraphrase of my first words - the Sox are the "other team" in Chicagoland, and may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series. - Joe Alberti

Hitmen77
10-16-2007, 09:52 AM
When I was a little kid (back before the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the early 60s), the White Sox ruled Chicago, and the Chicago media. We outdrew the Cubs by tens of thousands. We had a better on field product by far. Cubs? Cubs fans? What were they? Despite our inability to see the White Sox win the pennant, all was well in our local baseball world.

In the course of a single baseball season, all that changed, or, at least the course of things changed. The 1967 Cubs were on a positive upswing for the first time since 1946. The 67 White Sox were a tight, nervous bunch who lost a wonderful pennant opportunity on the last weekend of the season. The 68 Cubs were contenders. The 68 White Sox fell on thier faces. This concided with political rallies and riots that made the South Side of chicago feel unsafe, and people started coming the conclusion that Comiskey Park was in a "bad neighborhood." It was the beginning of a long dark night for us.

As Brian noted, the Sox were nearly sold and relocated several times. Once in 1969 to Milwaukee. Again in the mid 70s, this time to Seattle. Then came the real threat, in 1989, when Reinsdorf said "Fund my stadium, or we take the team to Tampa." What harrowing times to be a Sox fan.

And since at least 1992, possibly since 1989, the Cubs have been the media darlings. I resent it, because we usually put a better product on the field, and we have a fan base that actually cares about baseball, not just drinking beer, sitting in the sun, and staring at college girls in tube tops. (Please note I preceded that with the word "just.").

I don't hate Cubs fans, or the Cubs really, but i despise what "Cubdom" represents, and what the media circus the Cubs have become. For that reason, I can never pull for the Cubs. Ever. And I hope they never win the pennant or the series, because that will only exacerbate these things I despise.

Chip on the shoulder? You betcha! But I come by my chip honestly. The overall stupidity, self righteousness, self obsession, and vapidness of Cubs fans has placed it there.

What I have discovered is that Cubs fans are a lot more volatile since 2005. I believe its because they did indeed consider the White Sox a non-entity. They always believed they would win the world series someday, and that because they have been so loyal to the "lovable losers" all these years, they deserved a championship team. And then lo and behold, the team they have considered a non-entity for decades beats them to the punch. HOW DARE THEY!!! The underlying backlash I see is that Cubs fans believe they deserve to win, and have not, and our team never deserved to win, and we did. They cannot get over that. They also labor under the delusion that because the White Sox won the World Series with "such ease" -- going 11-1 in the post season in 2005, all the Cubs needed to do was get to the playoffs, and such a playoff run would be child's play. These deluded fans were the ones who were sobbing on the curb outside of Wrigley Field after they were eliminated from the playoffs.

One thing I will say for sure -- when the White Sox have lost in the post season, I've seen Sox fans angry, surly, depressed, or withdrawn -- but I have never seen any of them shedding a tear, let along sobbing. The only tears I have seen Sox fans shed was when we won it all n 2005, particularly those of us who remembered parents and grandparents who are no longer with us who missed this incredible event. A grip on reality is a key difference between Cubs and Sox fans.

Its that self obsessed, self righteous arrogance I can't stand. And I can never, ever pull for the Cubs because of that.

For me, this is a prejudice that will die hard. In the Balkans, the Bosnians don't cheer for the Serbs, and the Serbs don't pull for the Croats. The Sunni's don't wave flags for the Shiites. The Palestinians don't cheer for the Israelis. And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.

That was EXCELLENT! Forget great post, that would make a great article! You really nailed it.

soxfanatlanta
10-16-2007, 11:32 AM
I have mixed feeling about the article; on the one hand you had somebody write some very inflaming remarks, and you stood up for yourself. On the other hand, you just fed the troll by publishing some of their drivel for all to see.

just my two pesos.

Nellie_Fox
10-16-2007, 11:48 AM
I don't know but I've been chomping at the bit for days...The correct term is "champing at the bit." A common error.

AZChiSoxFan
10-16-2007, 11:53 AM
I will echo Brian26's and MarySwiss's sentiments.

When I was a little kid (back before the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the early 60s), the White Sox ruled Chicago, and the Chicago media. We outdrew the Cubs by tens of thousands. We had a better on field product by far. Cubs? Cubs fans? What were they? Despite our inability to see the White Sox win the pennant, all was well in our local baseball world.

In the course of a single baseball season, all that changed, or, at least the course of things changed. The 1967 Cubs were on a positive upswing for the first time since 1946. The 67 White Sox were a tight, nervous bunch who lost a wonderful pennant opportunity on the last weekend of the season. The 68 Cubs were contenders. The 68 White Sox fell on thier faces. This concided with political rallies and riots that made the South Side of chicago feel unsafe, and people started coming the conclusion that Comiskey Park was in a "bad neighborhood." It was the beginning of a long dark night for us.

As Brian noted, the Sox were nearly sold and relocated several times. Once in 1969 to Milwaukee. Again in the mid 70s, this time to Seattle. Then came the real threat, in 1989, when Reinsdorf said "Fund my stadium, or we take the team to Tampa." What harrowing times to be a Sox fan.

And since at least 1992, possibly since 1989, the Cubs have been the media darlings. I resent it, because we usually put a better product on the field, and we have a fan base that actually cares about baseball, not just drinking beer, sitting in the sun, and staring at college girls in tube tops. (Please note I preceded that with the word "just.").

I don't hate Cubs fans, or the Cubs really, but i despise what "Cubdom" represents, and what the media circus the Cubs have become. For that reason, I can never pull for the Cubs. Ever. And I hope they never win the pennant or the series, because that will only exacerbate these things I despise.

Chip on the shoulder? You betcha! But I come by my chip honestly. The overall stupidity, self righteousness, self obsession, and vapidness of Cubs fans has placed it there.

What I have discovered is that Cubs fans are a lot more volatile since 2005. I believe its because they did indeed consider the White Sox a non-entity. They always believed they would win the world series someday, and that because they have been so loyal to the "lovable losers" all these years, they deserved a championship team. And then lo and behold, the team they have considered a non-entity for decades beats them to the punch. HOW DARE THEY!!! The underlying backlash I see is that Cubs fans believe they deserve to win, and have not, and our team never deserved to win, and we did. They cannot get over that. They also labor under the delusion that because the White Sox won the World Series with "such ease" -- going 11-1 in the post season in 2005, all the Cubs needed to do was get to the playoffs, and such a playoff run would be child's play. These deluded fans were the ones who were sobbing on the curb outside of Wrigley Field after they were eliminated from the playoffs.

One thing I will say for sure -- when the White Sox have lost in the post season, I've seen Sox fans angry, surly, depressed, or withdrawn -- but I have never seen any of them shedding a tear, let along sobbing. The only tears I have seen Sox fans shed was when we won it all n 2005, particularly those of us who remembered parents and grandparents who are no longer with us who missed this incredible event. A grip on reality is a key difference between Cubs and Sox fans.

Its that self obsessed, self righteous arrogance I can't stand. And I can never, ever pull for the Cubs because of that.

For me, this is a prejudice that will die hard. In the Balkans, the Bosnians don't cheer for the Serbs, and the Serbs don't pull for the Croats. The Sunni's don't wave flags for the Shiites. The Palestinians don't cheer for the Israelis. And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.

Bravo my friend!!! Bravo!!

ode to veeck
10-16-2007, 12:02 PM
I would be curious to see if Mets and Athletics fans have similar feelings toward the more popular teams they share a city with. I suppose the comparison isn't exactly the same as Sox-Cubs have shared a city for over 100 years where the other cities have had much shorter "rivalries". Still, Mets-Yankees is up to 45 years now. That seems like a long enough time to develop a bad taste for the other team.

It also seems a lot of this Sox fan disdain for the Cubs started after the Tribune bought the team. What was it like back in the 60s or 70s? DId fans feel the same way?

The Mets Yankees rivalry is stronger than the A's - Giants which does exist but is mild by comparison, in spite of the city series in the SF quake marred '89 WS. The Sox Cubs rivalry is as strong as it ever was these days, fueled by Sox fans agner over demise of decent media and coverage in Chicago and the abdication of the city to the Cubs by JR. The city series and real interleague play has also helped fuel the rivalry, as six games in mid-season really do count vs the one game exhibition that had happened in previous decades.

I think the only rivaly that compares to current Sox Cubs is the former Brooklyn Dodgers / Yankees rivalry, especially in the 50s, where the two played a number of hard fought championship series before the Dodgers and Giants moved to the left coast.

HerzogVon
10-16-2007, 12:02 PM
I have mixed feeling about the article; on the one hand you had somebody write some very inflaming remarks, and you stood up for yourself. On the other hand, you just fed the troll by publishing some of their drivel for all to see.

just my two pesos.



I presume you are referring to johnr1note here. Not quite sure what you mean. Does saying "you had someone write some very inflaming remarks" imply that the author's words were not his own? Sounds to me as though they were. And, just how are they "inflaming"? ( Not trying to start anything here; simply asking for clarification. )

btw - I also meant to credit Brian26 and MarySwiss for their remarks. This thread has has provided a lot of insight.

PS - Still don't understand this whole troll business.

Henrik Ibsen

voodoochile
10-16-2007, 12:11 PM
I presume you are referring to johnr1note here. Not quite sure what you mean. Does saying "you had someone write some very inflaming remarks" imply that the author's words were not his own? Sounds to me as though they were. And, just how are they "inflaming"? ( Not trying to start anything here; simply asking for clarification. )

btw - I also meant to credit Brian26 and MarySwiss for their remarks. This thread has has provided a lot of insight.

PS - Still don't understand this whole troll business.

Henrik Ibsen

He was commenting on Hal's article (TornLabrum) which was posted on the home page of WSI.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3507

soxfanatlanta
10-16-2007, 12:12 PM
I presume you are referring to johnr1note here. Not quite sure what you mean. Does saying "you had someone write some very inflaming remarks" imply that the author's words were not his own? Sounds to me as though they were. And, just how are they "inflaming"? ( Not trying to start anything here; simply asking for clarification. )

btw - I also meant to credit Brian26 and MarySwiss for their remarks. This thread has has provided a lot of insight.

PS - Still don't understand this whole troll business.

Henrik Ibsen

I actually was referring to this article (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3507) written by H.V. It was not aimed at any posters on this (or any other) thread.

Sorry for the confusion.

p.s. I loved Hedda Gabler :wink:

comet2k
10-16-2007, 12:28 PM
There's another baseball team in Chicago? Since when?

santo=dorf
10-16-2007, 12:42 PM
I can’t speak for George Bova, but I can tell you the last time I even bothered to mention the Cubs or the Tribune in a column. It was following the signing of Alfonso Soriano approximately ten months ago. I guess “always” is in the mind of the beholder.
From the first paragraph of the "Quitters!" article:
As a result, the Sox are now 1.5 games behind the Royals in the battle for oblivion while the Cute and Cuddlies are just as far ahead of the Brewers in the race for the NL Comedy Central championship.

The opening of the "What Happened?" article:
Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse, they did. It’s bad enough that the Cubs are in first place, but that’s tolerable. After all, you know they’re destined to eventually lose before they make it to the World Series. Less tolerable are the Cubs fans urging us to join their bandwagon.

From the first paragraph of the "Buehrle Saves!" article:
The Sox are going nowhere. The Cubs are two games over .500 and acting like contenders in the NL Comedy Central.


Obviously I appreciate the efforts you put in your writing, Torn, but to make a claim like you did in this latest article is very Tribune-like.

Ex-Chicagoan
10-16-2007, 12:46 PM
I've gotten into this scrape with people before ... "Cub fans don't care about the Sox." My group of longtime friends is split about 50-50, and my family are overwhelmingly Cub fans. Trust me - THEY CARE. A lot.

And don't give me the "Well, back in '03...." crap. My father admits to pulling for the Dodgers in the Series in '59 just so the Sox wouldn't win one first. It goes way back.

SOXPHILE
10-16-2007, 01:00 PM
I would be curious to see if Mets and Athletics fans have similar feelings toward the more popular teams they share a city with. I suppose the comparison isn't exactly the same as Sox-Cubs have shared a city for over 100 years where the other cities have had much shorter "rivalries". Still, Mets-Yankees is up to 45 years now. That seems like a long enough time to develop a bad taste for the other team.

It also seems a lot of this Sox fan disdain for the Cubs started after the Tribune bought the team. What was it like back in the 60s or 70s? DId fans feel the same way?

Yankees-Mets is a completely different animal. Yes, it hasn't been as long as Chicago. But, also, both teams have won something(s). The Yankees, of course, with their 26 World Champions, lead all of pro-sports in that category, and the Mets, in their 45 year history, do have 2 World Series championships, along with 2 other appearances, and have, at various times been a playoff caliber team.

The Cubs and Sox went so long without winning anything, so, as petty as it seemed, the rivalry was really just about who won it last, or who had a better record, etc. Through it all, the Cubs fans always acted like their team was the Yankees, and had this great winning tradition and history, which of course was false; They were the WORST, losingest team in all of sports history, and this drove / drives us Sox fans up a wall that they act like this. When the Sox won the Series in 2005, there really wasn't anything more to say, because the argument was over. But, it seemed to me that the Cubs fans became even MORE arrogant, and had more of this sense of entitlement. (It's our turn now ! IT'S GONNA HAPPEN !) Yet, they crashed in spectacular fashion in 2006, and although they did MAKE the playoffs in 2007, they showed what they were- an extremely mediocre team in a crappy division, and subsequently got pantsed in the playoffs when they had to, you know, play a real team.

So, while both Yankees and Mets fans can brag and puff out their chests, Cubs fans really have no right to do any of this, especially post 2005.

johnr1note
10-16-2007, 01:42 PM
Yankees-Mets is a completely different animal. Yes, it hasn't been as long as Chicago. But, also, both teams have won something(s). The Yankees, of course, with their 26 World Champions, lead all of pro-sports in that category, and the Mets, in their 45 year history, do have 2 World Series championships, along with 2 other appearances, and have, at various times been a playoff caliber team.

The Cubs and Sox went so long without winning anything, so, as petty as it seemed, the rivalry was really just about who won it last, or who had a better record, etc. Through it all, the Cubs fans always acted like their team was the Yankees, and had this great winning tradition and history, which of course was false; They were the WORST, losingest team in all of sports history, and this drove / drives us Sox fans up a wall that they act like this. When the Sox won the Series in 2005, there really wasn't anything more to say, because the argument was over. But, it seemed to me that the Cubs fans became even MORE arrogant, and had more of this sense of entitlement. (It's our turn now ! IT'S GONNA HAPPEN !) Yet, they crashed in spectacular fashion in 2006, and although they did MAKE the playoffs in 2007, they showed what they were- an extremely mediocre team in a crappy division, and subsequently got pantsed in the playoffs when they had to, you know, play a real team.

So, while both Yankees and Mets fans can brag and puff out their chests, Cubs fans really have no right to do any of this, especially post 2005.

I think the Yankees/Mets has some similarity to the Cubs/Sox rivalry in this dimension -- the Yankees have a nationwide following. No matter where you go, there are Yankee fans, because of their tremendous success, and because transplanted New Yorkers from many generations are everywhere. The Mets, in my estimation, appear to be a more regional franchise, living in the shadow of the Yankees, and not having the national exposure or the rich tradition. There are a lot of Mets fans (they are from New York, of course) but I think if you get outside of the New York metro area, and away from other areas of the country where there are whole communities of transplanted New Yorkers (South Florida, for example) you don't find much appeal for the Mets.

Similarly, the Cubs have an established national audience through WGN's days as a superstation. The Sox, on the other hand, botched most of thier efforts to expand the media, going to pay per view a few years before the city was wired for cable, and because of the scarcity and low power of its media outlets, had very little in the way of a national following. Everywhere you go in America, you will see Cubs gear. Not so of the Sox, though since 2005, this has improved some.

tebman
10-16-2007, 01:54 PM
Maybe it is because I didn't grow up in Chicago and don't "get" the chip on the shoulder that many Sox fans seem to have in regards to the Cubs or maybe it is because I don't get that concerned with a team that isn't even in the same league as the Sox. Beats me.

I figured that a WS win would have put an end to any Cub-Sox "rivalry" nonsense but I guess I was wrong...

I would be curious to see if Mets and Athletics fans have similar feelings toward the more popular teams they share a city with. I suppose the comparison isn't exactly the same as Sox-Cubs have shared a city for over 100 years where the other cities have had much shorter "rivalries". Still, Mets-Yankees is up to 45 years now. That seems like a long enough time to develop a bad taste for the other team.

It also seems a lot of this Sox fan disdain for the Cubs started after the Tribune bought the team. What was it like back in the 60s or 70s? DId fans feel the same way?
I found this thread late so I'm probably covering ground that's already been plowed. But I think that yes, the chip-on-the-shoulder attitude common among Sox fans is a product of generations of connection, and yes, it's because of the Tribune. Mostly I think it's the product of the shifting sands of tribal loyalties, demographic changes, and economics.

On the Sounds of the Sox (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/SoxSounds.htm) page on WSI there's an audio clip of Jean Shepherd (of "A Christmas Story" fame) talking about growing up a Sox fan in the 1930s. That clip is an excerpt from a monologue Shep did in the 1950s. I've heard a longer version of it, and he goes on to talk about the Cubs: "Do you know what it's like growing up a South Sider in a world full of North Siders? Yeah, let me tell you about that. They've got this team up there, they call 'em the Cubs...they play in this ballpark with little men in Wrigley Gum hats..." He goes on to talk about the Cubs and their fans never having seen a brick in their lives while the White Sox and their fans grew up around not just bricks, but bricks with clumps of dirt on them.

The point being that there's long been a feeling that Cub fans condescend to White Sox fans, viewing us as rough, inelegant boors (see Ligue, William). Historically South Siders are cast as blue-collar and North Siders are not. The Stockyards, the steel mills, the grimy jazz clubs were on the South Side. The more white-collar folks were mostly on the North Side. Both teams catered to their geographical base.

Those distinctions don't make much objective sense anymore, but they persist, and the Tribune's historical identification with money and business seemed a natural fit for the Cubs and their perceived fan base. Steep those tribal identifications for 100 years, add the Tribune's influence for the last 25 years, and top it off with overcaffeinated sportsblab shows and here we are.

Sure, it's irrational. That's why the root word of "fan" is "fanatic."

white sox bill
10-16-2007, 02:42 PM
I thought this thread was for the column Hal wrote about a week ago, then I read his latest that posted yesterday, and that one was even better.

Kudos, no Major Kudos to you Hal! How dare this Cub fan make false accusations against both Hal and George. Sure, George and I have disagreed on a few minor issues, but I think hes a straight shooter and I would trust him with my back. Same with Hal.

Thanks Hal for sharing a typical Cub fans view on the Sox. And thanks for shredding the Cub fan and sending him back to that God awfull place at Addison and Clark.

FielderJones
10-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Here's my take on it: When we won the World Series in 2005, we gained the ultimate trump card in terms of bragging rights. The score is now Sox fans 1, Cubs fans 0.

I agree winning it 2 yrs ago killed the rivalry in my eyes. Thats actually 2 World Series up we are now counting the one back in 1917?

Actually, the score is 3-2 Sox.

(1906 - 1917 - 2005) v (1907 - 1908)

But it's actually better than that. The Sox are 3 for 5 in World Series attempts, while the Cubs are 2 for 8. They've had more chances, but we've had more wins.

chisoxfanatic
10-16-2007, 03:16 PM
Actually, the score is 3-2 Sox.

(1906 - 1917 - 2005) v (1907 - 1908)

But it's actually better than that. The Sox are 3 for 5 in World Series attempts, while the Cubs are 2 for 8. They've had more chances, but we've had more wins.

And, IF the Cubs EVER tie that "score," 1906 can count as a "tie-breaker," as our Sox defeated their Cubs head-to-head in that World Series! So, in theory, they really need a couple more World Series wins to get ahead in that "score." :cool:

SoxGirl4Life
10-16-2007, 04:19 PM
And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.


Well said.

Its the entitlement factor. I've tried to put myself in Cubs' fans shoes (now that I've gotten older) but I just can't. I tried to empathize. And for the most part I DO feel bad for the long-suffering, but not for the fluff that has set up camp in Wrigleyville. These are the same bandwagon jumpers that started filling Sox park since 2005. In my opinion, I don't really want them there-even though intellectually I know their dollars help the Sox.

Call it a chip, or a rivalry, its just the way some of us were raised.

SoxGirl4Life
10-16-2007, 04:30 PM
The Sox, on the other hand, botched most of thier efforts to expand the media, going to pay per view a few years before the city was wired for cable..

I actually lobbied (and got) the "ONTV" "Sportvision" box for either a birthday or Christmas. I was too young to even realize the implications of what it meant for the Sox at that point in history. All I cared about was being able to see the Sox. It didn't hurt that I had my Dad's support! :D:

chisoxfanatic
10-16-2007, 04:31 PM
I sure wasn't raised one way or the other. I am a first-generation Sox fan coming from a family that would force me to attend the opera and would never have a game of any kind on (I'd watch myself--or listen on a hand-held radio that I would hide from my parents when I was supposed to be in bed). The only times we ever came into the city were to go to museums. What my whole loathe for Cubmania stems from is the whole idea that they are "darlings" even though they've accomplished absolutely nothing. Coupled with that are the constant articles tarnishing the south side (not just the Sox, but our fanbase and the area known as the south side), and it's enough to annoy one very much.

chisoxmike
10-16-2007, 04:37 PM
Here's my take on it: When we won the World Series in 2005, we gained the ultimate trump card in terms of bragging rights. The score is now Sox fans 1, Cubs fans 0. Personally, I don't deny enjoying that. Since the Sox were bad this year and unable to extend that lead, I wanted to see the lead protected. Therefore, I rooted against the Cubs in the playoffs.

In addition, I seem to know an inordinate amount of insufferable Cub fans. The ones who call you and taunt you, demanding that you respect their 85-win juggernaut. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for many of these people. I think it's kind of funny that they have to wear a 99-year championship drought.

You weren't around in 1988 when the Sox were an eyelash away from leaving town. It happened at least two other times in the 70's. In a baseball sense, a lot of fans are scarred from those incidents, and a lot of the paranoia originates from that. Even though some people will point towards Reinsdorf as being the culprint because of his stadium demands in '88, the underlying issue was television and the declining fan base.

The Cubs/Sox rivalry will always exist as long as the media in this town shows favoritism towards the northside product. The chip on the shoulder, at least to me, is an underlying fear that the Sox could still, someday, be driven out of town, even though it sounds crazy right now.

Just because a team wins the World Series, they aren't guaranteed from suffering at the gate in later years. The Florida Marlins have won two World titles and they are still constantly talked about in terms of contraction or re-location.

These two quotes sum up my feelings very well.

Look, I hate the Cubs. Always have, always will. I'll never root for them.

On the other hand, would I take a Cubs loss over a Sox win? Of course not.

When the Sox are doing well, I could care less what the Cubs are doing. When the Sox are ****, like they are now, I want the Cubs to lose also.

I don't want to see the Sox overshadowed in this town by the Cubs. I always want to be "one-up" on them.

Sox fans on here throw around the term "Flubsessed" way too much and its getting pretty annoying.

The people that ***** about Sox fans wanting the Cubs to lose are more annoying than the people that "obsess" about them.

itsnotrequired
10-16-2007, 04:53 PM
The people that ***** about Sox fans wanting the Cubs to lose are more annoying than the people that "obsess" about them.

Is that another personal javelin hurled in my direction?

:party:

tebman
10-16-2007, 04:57 PM
Is that another personal javelin hurled in my direction?

:party:

:rolling:

soxfanatlanta
10-16-2007, 04:59 PM
Is that another personal javelin hurled in my direction?

:party:


It's not always about you, INR.
:tongue:

chisoxmike
10-16-2007, 05:01 PM
Is that another personal javelin hurled in my direction?

:party:

:duel:

:happybday

itsnotrequired
10-16-2007, 05:03 PM
:duel:

:happybday

:fireward

TheCommander
10-16-2007, 05:43 PM
I sure wasn't raised one way or the other. I am a first-generation Sox fan coming from a family that would force me to attend the opera and would never have a game of any kind on (I'd watch myself--or listen on a hand-held radio that I would hide from my parents when I was supposed to be in bed). The only times we ever came into the city were to go to museums. What my whole loathe for Cubmania stems from is the whole idea that they are "darlings" even though they've accomplished absolutely nothing. Coupled with that are the constant articles tarnishing the south side (not just the Sox, but our fanbase and the area known as the south side), and it's enough to annoy one very much.

First generation Sox fan here too! :cheers: While I wasn't dragged to the opera:o: my family didn't really have an influence on my love of the Sox,as they despise sports of any kind. When I was growing up,if you loved the Sox,you hated the Cubs and vice versa. And if you claimed to like both,you were considered a fan of neither.That was just the way it was. It was a serious,yet friendly rivalry that my friends and I carry on to this day.

JB98
10-16-2007, 06:47 PM
Actually, the score is 3-2 Sox.

Sure, sure. Point taken. I posted "1-0" because I was operating within the realm of what we've actually witnessed in our lifetimes.

In 1917, none of my *grandparents* were born yet. And I'm 31, so I'm not really, really young or anything.

chisox77
10-16-2007, 07:32 PM
There is much truth to all of the posts in this thread. This topic is one of allegiances and feelings and viewpoints. It even goes beyond baseball. About two weeks ago, my aunt and my cousin visited me, and we went out to dinner.

That was the day where later in the evening, the Cubs would be eliminated from this year's playoffs. My aunt and my cousin really aren't fans of any team until there is an obvious reason to be.

Their greeting to me, "Hopefully, the restaurant we go to will have a TV, so we can root for the Cubs to win!" Then they looked directly at me, expecting some sort of agreeing statement.

Before I spoke, I pointed their attention to the two World Series Title Penants I have from 2005. Then I showed them my White Sox hat collection (I have eight) . . .

"Aw, c'mon, you HAVE to root for the Cubs," they said. I just looked at them and said . . .

"Honestly, my feeling is that the Cubs have more than enough fans. I am a White Sox fan. That's it." The room was quiet, but all of us managed to share some pleasantries, but they knew where I stood.

During our dinner, the game was on, and it was obvious that the Cubs were going to lose (four doubleplays). My aunt and cousin were very quiet. I did not need to gloat.

:cool:

A. Cavatica
10-16-2007, 07:56 PM
I consider the Cubs more of an annoying distraction than anything else. In fact, I told Cub-fan friends that if the Cubs won the Series this year, I would congratulate them.

Then the Cubs surprised me and made the playoffs. I desperately wanted them to get swept in the first round.

And now life is back to normal.

FarWestChicago
10-16-2007, 07:58 PM
What the hell was all of this Flubs crap doing in the Clubhouse? I'm sorry to move a thread about one of your articles Hal. But the Flubsessed hijacked it, ruined it and earned the trip here.

FarWestChicago
10-16-2007, 07:59 PM
Whatever. Ever been wrong?Did you actually post that to somebody else? :o:

:rolling: :roflmao:

RadioheadRocks
10-16-2007, 08:03 PM
I think JB98 sums it up nicely. My own position on this was that I wasn't maliciously rooting against the Cubs - but I just wanted them eliminated asap just to stop all the gloating by Cub fans and to end the media circus over this 85 win team....and yes I did hear a lot of gloating from Cub fans.

I totally agree here, but what really pissed me off more than anything was how all these obnoxious Cub fans made it a point to announce how they were "entitled" to win it all (because of our championship in '05 and the Cards winning it all last year despite only 83 regular season victories) and how the Cubbie kiss-ass media fed right into it. All I can say is Karma is a bee-yotch.

itsnotrequired
10-16-2007, 08:18 PM
I totally agree here, but what really pissed me off more than anything was how all these obnoxious Cub fans made it a point to announce how they were "entitled" to win it all (because of our championship in '05 and the Cards winning it all last year despite only 83 regular season victories) and how the Cubbie kiss-ass media fed right into it. All I can say is Karma is a bee-yotch.

I think you have that backwards...

SoxandtheCityTee
10-16-2007, 08:24 PM
There's another baseball team in Chicago? Since when?

And if that works for you, congrats. It's not a realistic way for many of us to live drive & survive in this town. Especially if we didn't move away from here to a place where one never has to glimpse a Trib or Sun-Times headline unless you seek one out on the internet, or move here after 2003.

Let's say I'm riding up the elevator or walking into a meeting with a co-worker known to be a Cub fan (though a nice and very knowledgeable one) and he says, Did you see how the Cubs managed to lose that one last night?

I can reply:

1. Yep, brutal (if I heard about it or saw the news), or

2. No, what happened? (if not), or

3. I beg your pardon, sir, I have no idea of what you speak; I am a White Sox fan.

By all means, y'all go with some version of #3 if you like. But anyone posting to tell me that I'm the one with the psychopathological response is going to hear from me, cause that is pure b.s.

Edit: I liked the article, Hal.

TornLabrum
10-16-2007, 08:58 PM
I have mixed feeling about the article; on the one hand you had somebody write some very inflaming remarks, and you stood up for yourself. On the other hand, you just fed the troll by publishing some of their drivel for all to see.

just my two pesos.




Ah, but the troll has no way to communicate with me anymore. I put him on my blocked senders list. So I get the last word.

SoxandtheCityTee
10-16-2007, 09:03 PM
Ah, but the troll has no way to communicate with me anymore. I put him on my blocked senders list. So I get the last word.

Excellent!

TornLabrum
10-16-2007, 09:07 PM
From the first paragraph of the "Quitters!" article:


The opening of the "What Happened?" article:


From the first paragraph of the "Buehrle Saves!" article:



Obviously I appreciate the efforts you put in your writing, Torn, but to make a claim like you did in this latest article is very Tribune-like.

Ooooooooooops! Okay, but those were only fleeting references. It's not exactly like I've been obsessed as was implied.

WSox597
10-16-2007, 09:26 PM
In the Balkans, the Bosnians don't cheer for the Serbs, and the Serbs don't pull for the Croats. The Sunni's don't wave flags for the Shiites. The Palestinians don't cheer for the Israelis. And die hard Sox fans can't cheer for the Cubs.

Outstanding! That nailed it.

For me, their fans are more annoying than their pathetic team.

Now I can casually mention the 100 year thing whenever one of the mopes feels frisky. And beyond, one can only hope.

"Any team can have a bad century."

hi im skot
10-16-2007, 10:41 PM
I grew up in the Quad Cities, which is basically the Iowa/Illinois border. There are two baseball teams that exist there: the Cubs and the Cardinals.

My dad grew up on the Southside of Chicago, and moved to the QC after going to college in the area. Thankfully, he passed his love of the White Sox along to me.

At school, I was pretty much known as the White Sox freak; White Sox fans simply didn't exist at my school. And Cubs fans were more than happy to gang up on me, even though I was never the one to start something. Today, as many in this thread can attest to, the childish behavior of Cubs fans continues, 99% of the time totally unprovoked.

I've never understood people who seem to hate another team more than they support their own team. A good night for me is one in which the White Sox win. Unless the Cubs are playing the Brewers (a team that I've come to appreciate due to the time I spend living in Milwaukee), I really don't care what they did. Still, I never see myself actually rooting for the Cubs.

Am I holding a grudge from childhood? Nope. I care about the White Sox first and foremost. And as long as the boorish behavior continues from Cubs "fans", I can't say I'll wish them well. However, if they manage to win a championship, I'll be happy for the true, die-hard fans that love the game of baseball as much as I do.

I think it's true that people who didn't actually grow up with all of the Sox vs. Cubs nonsense don't really understand why we're so passionate about the rivalry. We ARE perceived as the underdogs, and dammit, we're sticking up for ourselves and our team.

Unfortunately, some people take it all too far. Sox "fans" who wear "Cubs Suck" shirts are just as much jackasses as the Cubs fans who give Sox fans grief. I'm all for good-natured ribbing; that's part of what makes it fun. It's great to see a Sox/Cubs game with my Cub fan friend. We trade info with each other and cheer for our team. It's a good time. It's supposed to be fun.

This has been a little bit of a mess, but I think more than anything, I just want to stress that my love of the White Sox is stronger than any feelings I have for the Cubs.

SoxandtheCityTee
10-16-2007, 10:57 PM
Ooooooooooops! Okay, but those were only fleeting references. It's not exactly like I've been obsessed as was implied.

Of course not! It's just a personal insult, like "moronic," "idiotic," "retarded" and other words -- though those aren't tolerated here. Everyone with an ounce of sense knows that you're not. I feel sad that this is what it's come to. And all because people had the nerve to post about the NLCS on a baseball site.

JB98
10-16-2007, 11:29 PM
I grew up in the Quad Cities, which is basically the Iowa/Illinois border. There are two baseball teams that exist there: the Cubs and the Cardinals.

My dad grew up on the Southside of Chicago, and moved to the QC after going to college in the area. Thankfully, he passed his love of the White Sox along to me.

At school, I was pretty much known as the White Sox freak; White Sox fans simply didn't exist at my school. And Cubs fans were more than happy to gang up on me, even though I was never the one to start something. Today, as many in this thread can attest to, the childish behavior of Cubs fans continues, 99% of the time totally unprovoked.

I've never understood people who seem to hate another team more than they support their own team. A good night for me is one in which the White Sox win. Unless the Cubs are playing the Brewers (a team that I've come to appreciate due to the time I spend living in Milwaukee), I really don't care what they did. Still, I never see myself actually rooting for the Cubs.

Am I holding a grudge from childhood? Nope. I care about the White Sox first and foremost. And as long as the boorish behavior continues from Cubs "fans", I can't say I'll wish them well. However, if they manage to win a championship, I'll be happy for the true, die-hard fans that love the game of baseball as much as I do.

I think it's true that people who didn't actually grow up with all of the Sox vs. Cubs nonsense don't really understand why we're so passionate about the rivalry. We ARE perceived as the underdogs, and dammit, we're sticking up for ourselves and our team.

Unfortunately, some people take it all too far. Sox "fans" who wear "Cubs Suck" shirts are just as much jackasses as the Cubs fans who give Sox fans grief. I'm all for good-natured ribbing; that's part of what makes it fun. It's great to see a Sox/Cubs game with my Cub fan friend. We trade info with each other and cheer for our team. It's a good time. It's supposed to be fun.

This has been a little bit of a mess, but I think more than anything, I just want to stress that my love of the White Sox is stronger than any feelings I have for the Cubs.

Yeah, even though I can't stand the Cubs, I do not own a "Cubs suck" T-Shirt. In addition, as a sportswriter, I do not use the word "Cubs" in any of my columns. As a Sox fan, why would I give the Cubs even more publicity by wearing a T-Shirt that says "Cubs suck" or writing about that team?

I enjoy a Cubs' loss as much as anybody, but naturally, the best feeling I have as a baseball fan is a Sox victory.

johnr1note
10-17-2007, 12:08 AM
What the hell was all of this Flubs crap doing in the Clubhouse? I'm sorry to move a thread about one of your articles Hal. But the Flubsessed hijacked it, ruined it and earned the trip here.

But that's what Hal's article was about.

Soxfanspcu11
10-17-2007, 03:02 AM
My aunt and cousin were very quiet. I did not need to gloat.


I told Cub-fan friends that if the Cubs won the Series this year, I would congratulate them.

2 GREAT responses here!

In my experiences, I have found that Sox fans are so much more classy than cub fans in this particular situation.

There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but when I go out to bars or resturants and the Sox are on TV and they are losing, the cub fans make themselves as loud as possible, cheering for whoever the Sox are playing. I have experienced it HUNDREDS of times.

On the other side, when the cubs are on TV and are losing, very few Sox fans actually cheer for the other team, at least in my experience. We might high five each other or sport a quick smile, but nothing more. I NEVER want to lower myself to cub fan behavior, it is quite embarrassing!

Yeah, even though I can't stand the Cubs, I do not own a "Cubs suck" T-Shirt. In addition, as a sportswriter, I do not use the word "Cubs" in any of my columns. As a Sox fan, why would I give the Cubs even more publicity by wearing a T-Shirt that says "Cubs suck" or writing about that team?

I enjoy a Cubs' loss as much as anybody, but naturally, the best feeling I have as a baseball fan is a Sox victory.

I agree with you that the best feeling as a baseball fan is when the Sox win, and you would take that any day over a cubs lose, but I would have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on the "Cubs suck" shirts.

I own a few "Cubs Suck" style shirts and I am very proud of them and enjoy wearing them very much.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion and you are more than welcome to not like those shirts, but I think they are great. If only for the simple fact of what has been mentioned over and over in this thread. The cub fans and their undeserved sense of accomplishment and the fact that they think that they are socially "better" than Sox fans. It feels like a personal attack many times, and that is just one reason that I LOVE my "Cubs Suck" shirts!:D:

SoxandtheCityTee
10-17-2007, 09:22 AM
But that's what Hal's article was about.

Yes, and note how the "hijack" actually started. Casual insulting of people here by accusing them of obsession with the Cubs is invariably a thread poisoner; the accused's efforts to defend themselves are just labelled further evidence of their supposed problem, as in a witch hunt. Even thoughtful responses are ignored or ridiculed in service of a goal, I suppose, of achieving a Sox site where the Cubs are very rarely mentioned, no matter what happens.

I don't think it can be done, but this is a great site as it is. If (God forbid) a terrible disaster befell a full Wrigley Field, with thousands crushed under the smoking ruins, the thread memorializing our friends and neighbors would be moved to What's the Score and labelled "The Flubsessed Mourn Their Dead." It's just a quirk in what is a great place to talk about the White Sox, which is what really matters to all of us.

voodoochile
10-17-2007, 10:19 AM
Yes, and note how the "hijack" actually started. Casual insulting of people here by accusing them of obsession with the Cubs is invariably a thread poisoner; the accused's efforts to defend themselves are just labelled further evidence of their supposed problem, as in a witch hunt. Even thoughtful responses are ignored or ridiculed in service of a goal, I suppose, of achieving a Sox site where the Cubs are very rarely mentioned, no matter what happens.

I don't think it can be done, but this is a great site as it is. If (God forbid) a terrible disaster befell a full Wrigley Field, with thousands crushed under the smoking ruins, the thread memorializing our friends and neighbors would be moved to What's the Score and labelled "The Flubsessed Mourn Their Dead." It's just a quirk in what is a great place to talk about the White Sox, which is what really matters to all of us.

No, that wouldn't happen. The problem is some idiot would post something like "WOOHOO! What a beautiful day in baseball history." Then they'd get banned and the thread would get moved to the Roadhouse.

It isn't thoughtful discussion of the flubbies that makes WTS a reality, it's the morons who spend time obsessing about what the team up north is doing on a minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day basis. You weren't around a few years ago before we created this forum. It was brutal. Flubbie threads littered the Clubhouse and then the Talking Baseball forum in ridiculous numbers. There were regular game threads to discuss flubbie games any time the flubs showed any signs of life at all. This forum was created to contain the garbage. Since every single flubbie based thread contains at least some of that garbage they all go in here.

Edit: I mean honestly, the flubbies could sign ARod for 10 years at $10M/season and some dumbass would be saying they overpaid and they are glad the Sox aren't saddled with the contract.

I'd love to be able to allow discussion of the flubbies in Talking Baseball, but it's not going to happen so long as a certain group of posters continue to celebrate every bad thing and bemoan every good thing that happens for the Sox crosstown rival.

soxfanatlanta
10-17-2007, 01:14 PM
Ah, but the troll has no way to communicate with me anymore. I put him on my blocked senders list. So I get the last word.

Was the point of the article to get the last word? If so, I preferrd your email reply to them; it was to the point, and did not take as much typing. :wink:


cheers :gulp:

TornLabrum
10-17-2007, 09:57 PM
Of course not! It's just a personal insult, like "moronic," "idiotic," "retarded" and other words -- though those aren't tolerated here. Everyone with an ounce of sense knows that you're not. I feel sad that this is what it's come to. And all because people had the nerve to post about the NLCS on a baseball site.

I'd reply to this, but I can't figure out what the hell you're talking about.

TornLabrum
10-17-2007, 10:00 PM
Was the point of the article to get the last word? If so, I preferrd your email reply to them; it was to the point, and did not take as much typing. :wink:


cheers :gulp:

Yeah, you definitely have a point there.

MarySwiss
10-17-2007, 10:07 PM
Did you actually post that to somebody else? :o:

:rolling: :roflmao:

Yes. And I apologized almost immediately. And the guy I posted to said "no problem."

Allow me to apologize once again, since apparently it bothered you for some reason.

When I'm wrong, I usually admit it.

itsnotrequired
10-17-2007, 10:30 PM
Yes. And I apologized almost immediately. And the guy I posted to said "no problem."

Allow me to apologize once again, since apparently it bothered you for some reason.

When I'm wrong, I usually admit it.

Hey, I'm that guy!:neener:

SoxandtheCityTee
10-18-2007, 12:40 AM
I'd reply to this, but I can't figure out what the hell you're talking about.

I was responding to your post, in which you said you were not being "obsessed as implied." I agreed you were not.

thedudeabides
10-18-2007, 12:56 AM
I'd love to be able to allow discussion of the flubbies in Talking Baseball, but it's not going to happen so long as a certain group of posters continue to celebrate every bad thing and bemoan every good thing that happens for the Sox crosstown rival.

This is a great point. I wish there was rational discussion because if you live in Chicago they're a huge part of the baseball landscape and the flubs are worth talking about.

I'm a Sox fan more than anything, but I grew up with a lot of friends who are Cub fans. We have always had a friendly relationship talking about it. It can get heated, but in a friendly way. I never had animosity toward Cub fans until I got old enough to hang out in the northside bars and work downtown. Thats when I experienced the bandwagon fans that just moved into town and wanted to bait Sox fans because it was the cool thing to do.

When I go to Sox/Cubs games I always go with some of my friends who are Sox fans and some who are Cub fans. We all make fun of the idiots who are there just to rile up the other team, and there are plenty of idiots on both sides. Some of my Cub fan friends were ok with it in 2005 and some were bitter. There are some friends I have who I would be happy for if the Cubs win the world series, but at the same time I'm not rooting for the Cubs to win one. It's just how I was brought up, love the Sox first and foremost, but nobody in my family ever rooted for the Cubs.

Maybe, it's just a southside thing, but thats the way it's always been.

GoSox2K3
10-18-2007, 09:46 AM
But that's what Hal's article was about.

Yes, but why let that fact get in the way of calling people Flubsessed.


....I have no problem with Hal's article or having this thread in WTS, but the responses here seem to be on topic with that article which was written by a mod and featured on the front page of this site.

thedudeabides
10-18-2007, 11:12 AM
Yes, but why let that fact get in the way of calling people Flubsessed.


....I have no problem with Hal's article or having this thread in WTS, but the responses here seem to be on topic with that article which was written by a mod and featured on the front page of this site.

I don't get your point?

johnr1note
10-18-2007, 02:41 PM
I don't get your point?

I do get the point.

Hal's well written article was about dealing with a few of the less than polite (or intelligent) Cubs fans he comes into contact with at work and through this website. This is an article featured on the front page of WSI, as the "lead story."

Many folks responded with "Amens," so to speak. A few folks came out with the "please, no "flubsession"." Whether "flubsessed" or not, some folks felt the need to defend how they feel or what they meant. I was one of them.

Then one of the mods moves the thread because those of us who are "flubsessed" "ruined it."

To me, this seemed unfair and intellectually dishonest. Like waving the red cape at the bull, and then complaining when the bull charged, like it was the bull's fault for ruining the cape.

TornLabrum
10-18-2007, 06:43 PM
I was responding to your post, in which you said you were not being "obsessed as implied." I agreed you were not.

Thanks. I really had no idea what you were saying.

thedudeabides
10-18-2007, 09:54 PM
I do get the point.

Hal's well written article was about dealing with a few of the less than polite (or intelligent) Cubs fans he comes into contact with at work and through this website. This is an article featured on the front page of WSI, as the "lead story."

Many folks responded with "Amens," so to speak. A few folks came out with the "please, no "flubsession"." Whether "flubsessed" or not, some folks felt the need to defend how they feel or what they meant. I was one of them.

Then one of the mods moves the thread because those of us who are "flubsessed" "ruined it."

To me, this seemed unfair and intellectually dishonest. Like waving the red cape at the bull, and then complaining when the bull charged, like it was the bull's fault for ruining the cape.

No offence, I just didn't get your post, which you clarified. Thanks

FarWestChicago
10-18-2007, 10:27 PM
Then one of the mods moves the thread because those of us who are "flubsessed" "ruined it." I moved the thread because it could NOT exist in the Clubhouse full of Flubs crap. And all of this feigned innocence is beyond laughable. Every single over the top, I talk more about the Flubs than the Sox, usual suspects, except for one, were in this thread. If you want to be a walking stereotype, that's fine. But, you won't drag this site down with you. The crap goes in here. Case and thread closed. Lord knows you guys will never stop going on otherwise.

TornLabrum
10-18-2007, 10:44 PM
I moved the thread because it could NOT exist in the Clubhouse full of Flubs crap. And all of this feigned innocence is beyond laughable. Every single over the top, I talk more about the Flubs than the Sox, usual suspects, except for one, were in this thread. If you want to be a walking stereotype, that's fine. But, you won't drag this site down with you. The crap goes in here. Case and thread closed. Lord knows you guys will never stop going on otherwise.

Thanks. I was about to close it myself. I'd seen enough of this crap. I would like to point out something in light of re-reading a couple of the posts here. The home page and this message board are pretty much two different beasts. What I write there has nothing to do with how I treat the flubsessed here, and frankly if I wrote as much about the cute and cuddlies as much as some of the folks who posted in this thread, I think I'd have to consider putting a gun in my mouth and pulling the trigger.