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View Full Version : I remember a certain team storming through the post season...J. Stark does not


Gammons Peter
10-13-2007, 10:38 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3061582

Crede_Fan
10-13-2007, 10:48 AM
Storming throught the playoffs, yes the 2005 White Sox did that. That doesn't compare with what the Rockies have been doing. The White Sox led the entire year. The Rockies came out of no where.

FarWestChicago
10-13-2007, 10:52 AM
How in the hell did you turn a Rockies article into a dis on the Sox?

cws05champ
10-13-2007, 03:58 PM
How in the hell did you turn a Rockies article into a dis on the Sox?


These Rockies have now become the first team in history to find itself in the middle of any postseason, riding a 19-1 streak that dates back into the regular season. The '27 Yankees never did that. The '36 Yankees never did that. The Big Red Machine never did that. The only team that even came close was the 1970 Orioles. But they never made it past 18-1 -- in part because they won the World Series before they got that chance.

I can see where he is coming from after these lines above. The Sox went 16-1 when they won the final game of the World Series. But the Rockies deserve all the accolades they get, and I wouldn't be upset about this article. Since when does ESPN report the facts?

DumpJerry
10-13-2007, 10:12 PM
I can see where he is coming from after these lines above. The Sox went 16-1 when they won the final game of the World Series. But the Rockies deserve all the accolades they get, and I wouldn't be upset about this article. Since when does ESPN report the facts?
Apples and Oranges. You're talking about after the World Series is all said and done. Starks is talking about after Game 2 of the ALCS. After Game 2 of the ALCS, the Sox were on a 14-6 run.

SBSoxFan
10-14-2007, 05:28 AM
Apples and Oranges. You're talking about after the World Series is all said and done. Starks is talking about after Game 2 of the ALCS. After Game 2 of the ALCS, the Sox were on a 14-6 run.

Well, he does mention the 1970 Orioles. What I find funny is "But they never made it past 18-1 -- in part because they won the World Series before they got that chance." I would argue that if there were no more games left to play, that would be a tad more than just part of the reason.

DumpJerry
10-14-2007, 09:15 AM
Well, he does mention the 1970 Orioles. What I find funny is "But they never made it past 18-1 -- in part because they won the World Series before they got that chance." I would argue that if there were no more games left to play, that would be a tad more than just part of the reason.
[quote=Jason Stark]Don't confuse me with facts or reality![qoute]

Frontman
10-14-2007, 09:25 AM
Apples and Oranges. You're talking about after the World Series is all said and done. Starks is talking about after Game 2 of the ALCS. After Game 2 of the ALCS, the Sox were on a 14-6 run.

Exactly. While the 2005 White Sox were impressive through the entire playoffs, at the point that the Rockies are now; the Rockies are more impressive. 19-1 isn't something the Sox had done to this point. Also, like others have said, the Sox led wire-to-wire; the Rockies just hit like a bolt of lightning out of a clear sky.

I don't think the writer meant to "dis" the Sox.

jabrch
10-14-2007, 09:51 AM
Why do Sox fans always find a way to paint themselves a pretty little victim story?

The Rocks are on one of the most amazing streaks ever seen in September and October. They deserve all the credit they can get for it. That doesn't lessen the Sox accomplishments in 2005 in the slightest.

Lip Man 1
10-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Completely agree with Jab on his point.

It seems some folks to use the title of a Billy Joel song, just 'go to extremes.'

Lip

chisoxfanatic
10-14-2007, 06:53 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this series doesn't go back to Arizona. All the Rockies need to do is win two of their next three to assure that. Either the Indians or Red Sox are going to have their hands full come the World Series. These Rockies are playing more close-knit than all but maybe a few teams I've ever seen. It's truly fascinating.

MarySwiss
10-14-2007, 07:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this series doesn't go back to Arizona. All the Rockies need to do is win two of their next three to assure that. Either the Indians or Red Sox are going to have their hands full come the World Series. These Rockies are playing more close-knit than all but maybe a few teams I've ever seen. It's truly fascinating.
Sure is! And if I weren't rooting for the D'Backs, I'd be right on that Rockies bandwagon.

But what I find especially intriguing is that a team that a month ago would have been deemed a long shot to even make the playoffs has somehow morphed into America's Team. :?:

I'm still rooting for my Baby Backs, but I really wish they were playing against a team I could work up a good strong hate for.

chisoxfanatic
10-14-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm still rooting for my Baby Backs, but I really wish they were playing against a team I could work up a good strong hate for.
I bet it's the same as the feeling we had during the 2005 World Series, where I bet none of us had any hate for the Astros.

MarySwiss
10-14-2007, 07:13 PM
I bet it's the same as the feeling we had during the 2005 World Series, where I bet none of us had any hate for the Astros.

Well, it would be, except we beat the Astros! :wink:

The Dude
10-14-2007, 07:35 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3061582

What's wrong with this article? What the Rockies have done is simply amazing.

:rolleyes: to your post.

DumpJerry
10-14-2007, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this series doesn't go back to Arizona. All the Rockies need to do is win two of their next three to assure that.
I didn't know Tim McCarver posted here.

Foulke You
10-14-2007, 08:58 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this series doesn't go back to Arizona. All the Rockies need to do is win two of their next three to assure that. Either the Indians or Red Sox are going to have their hands full come the World Series. These Rockies are playing more close-knit than all but maybe a few teams I've ever seen. It's truly fascinating.
I disagree. The Rockies are hot, there is no question. However, there is "good" and "good for the NL". I think a lot of the Rockies flaws will be exposed against the loaded Indians or Red Sox. Specifically, in the pitching dept. Those Rockies pitchers won't have Byrnes and Conor Jackson to face anymore. They'll be facing Hafner/Martinez or Manny/Ortiz in the 3 and 4 spot. Augie Ojeda won't be batting 8th either. It will be Kenny Lofton or Coco Crisp. Don't get me wrong, the Rockies are a nice story but I think the fairy tale will end vs. the AL in the World Series. Just my .02

DumpJerry
10-14-2007, 09:07 PM
I disagree. The Rockies are hot, there is no question. However, there is "good" and "good for the NL". I think a lot of the Rockies flaws will be exposed against the loaded Indians or Red Sox. Specifically, in the pitching dept. Those Rockies pitchers won't have Byrnes and Conor Jackson to face anymore. They'll be facing Hafner/Martinez or Manny/Ortiz in the 3 and 4 spot. Augie Ojeda won't be batting 8th either. It will be Kenny Lofton or Coco Crisp. Don't get me wrong, the Rockies are a nice story but I think the fairy tale will end vs. the AL in the World Series. Just my .02
You're right. Any team, I mean any team, from the NL will be lambs to slaughter against any of the original four AL playoff teams and about 6 other AL teams which did not make the playoffs.

By the Fifth Inning of each WS game, there will be cries for Bud to cut the game for mercy purposes.

PKalltheway
10-14-2007, 11:24 PM
I disagree. The Rockies are hot, there is no question. However, there is "good" and "good for the NL". I think a lot of the Rockies flaws will be exposed against the loaded Indians or Red Sox. Specifically, in the pitching dept. Those Rockies pitchers won't have Byrnes and Conor Jackson to face anymore. They'll be facing Hafner/Martinez or Manny/Ortiz in the 3 and 4 spot. Augie Ojeda won't be batting 8th either. It will be Kenny Lofton or Coco Crisp. Don't get me wrong, the Rockies are a nice story but I think the fairy tale will end vs. the AL in the World Series. Just my .02
Well, in all fairness, they did have to face the Phillies lineup, which is no pushover themselves (Philly doesn't have that good of pitching though). But I do get what you're saying. You just never know though...after the 2003 World Series, I will never, EVER, count the underdog out in the World Series. Ever.

HomeFish
10-14-2007, 11:34 PM
You're right. Any team, I mean any team, from the NL will be lambs to slaughter against any of the original four AL playoff teams and about 6 other AL teams which did not make the playoffs.

By the Fifth Inning of each WS game, there will be cries for Bud to cut the game for mercy purposes.

This was said of the 2006 World Series also.

Time will tell if the Rockies are more like the 1998 Padres or more like the 2003 Marlins.

captainclutch24
10-15-2007, 03:13 AM
You're right. Any team, I mean any team, from the NL will be lambs to slaughter against any of the original four AL playoff teams and about 6 other AL teams which did not make the playoffs.

By the Fifth Inning of each WS game, there will be cries for Bud to cut the game for mercy purposes.

You are wrong. The national league will win the world series for the 4th time in 7 years. The Rockies will beat the Red Sox or Indians. I love all the bad mouthing of the national league on this site despite the fact that the white sox had a losing record in interleague play. I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST! The Rockies dominated the Red Sox earlier in the year and they have the offense and pitching to dominate both AL teams

Ex-Chicagoan
10-15-2007, 04:03 AM
I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST!

:?:

Boondock Saint
10-15-2007, 04:07 AM
You are wrong. The national league will win the world series for the 4th time in 7 years. The Rockies will beat the Red Sox or Indians. I love all the bad mouthing of the national league on this site despite the fact that the white sox had a losing record in interleague play. I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST! The Rockies dominated the Red Sox earlier in the year and they have the offense and pitching to dominate both AL teams

Obsessed much?

The AL has dominated the NL in interleague play for a few years now. Fact. The White Sox ended the season with a terrible record. Most of the AL did not. Fact. Saying that the Rockies' pitching can/will dominate the Red Sox or Indians? FICTION.

DumpJerry
10-15-2007, 06:33 AM
You are wrong. The national league will win the world series for the 4th time in 7 years. The Rockies will beat the Red Sox or Indians. I love all the bad mouthing of the national league on this site despite the fact that the white sox had a losing record in interleague play. I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST! The Rockies dominated the Red Sox earlier in the year and they have the offense and pitching to dominate both AL teams

:?:

Obsessed much?
Somebody is still upset about losing three and out last week. Must really sting that the team that swept you like yesterday's coffee grounds can't win against the Wild Card team. Typical Cub fan garbage of bringing up irrelevant facts like the interleague record of a team that is not in the playoffs.

Captainclutch: Go rent a DVD of the first Rocky movie. It will remind you of what it feels like to put up a fight.

spawn
10-15-2007, 07:06 AM
You are wrong. The national league will win the world series for the 4th time in 7 years. The Rockies will beat the Red Sox or Indians. I love all the bad mouthing of the national league on this site despite the fact that the white sox had a losing record in interleague play. I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST! The Rockies dominated the Red Sox earlier in the year and they have the offense and pitching to dominate both AL teams
And what exactly does the White Sox record against the NL have to do with this conversation?

SBSoxFan
10-15-2007, 08:33 AM
Obsessed much?

The AL has dominated the NL in interleague play for a few years now. Fact. The White Sox ended the season with a terrible record. Most of the AL did not. Fact. Saying that the Rockies' pitching can/will dominate the Red Sox or Indians? FICTION.

I believe the Rockies led the NL in team ERA since the all-star break. They also lit up Jake Peavy in the tie-breaker game. They are hotter than hot, and, assuming they get to the world series, they'll be no pushover for neither Boston nor Cleveland.

Hitmen77
10-15-2007, 09:14 AM
You're right. Any team, I mean any team, from the NL will be lambs to slaughter against any of the original four AL playoff teams and about 6 other AL teams which did not make the playoffs.

By the Fifth Inning of each WS game, there will be cries for Bud to cut the game for mercy purposes.

While the AL team will rightfully be the favorite to win, anything can happen in a 7 game series. Just asked the 06 Cardinals or the 03 Marlins. Sometimes it's all about which team gets hot at the right time, not who has the most talent.

You are wrong. The national league will win the world series for the 4th time in 7 years. The Rockies will beat the Red Sox or Indians. I love all the bad mouthing of the national league on this site despite the fact that the white sox had a losing record in interleague play. I cannot wait to laugh in the face of you AL ELITEIST! The Rockies dominated the Red Sox earlier in the year and they have the offense and pitching to dominate both AL teams

Even though I definitely think the Rockies can win it all, them doing so proves little in terms of AL superiority over the NL. This is baseball, any team has a shot to win a postseason series. In fact, I'm pulling for either NL team to win it all.

However, I think it's pretty tough to deny the AL superiority over the NL at this time. Just look at the Rockies themselves. Josh Fogg as their #3 pitcher? I doubt such a team would even be in the running for a playoff berth in the AL. Also, they got to a tiebreaking game by winning 89 games. That win total would put a team 5 games out of a wild card spot in the AL and 5 games out of first in any AL division. The bar is set much higher for an AL team to make the playoffs. Over the last few years, it seems like AL teams have to be just about perfect to make the postseason. Not so in the NL - where teams only have to be above average, can struggle through a good part of the regular season, and then click at just the right time and then sail thru the post season ('05 Astros, '06 Cardinals, '07 Rockies).

Finally, the Sox were terrible in 2007, had an awful bullpen and several automatic outs in their lineup. Also, the 07 Sox were very sloppy on defense and just dreadful on fundamentals like moving runners over. I'm not sure how their record against the NL proves anything against the AL being better than the NL.

Foulke You
10-15-2007, 12:55 PM
Finally, the Sox were terrible in 2007, had an awful bullpen and several automatic outs in their lineup. Also, the 07 Sox were very sloppy on defense and just dreadful on fundamentals like moving runners over. I'm not sure how their record against the NL proves anything against the AL being better than the NL.
The only thing our interleague record proves is how bad a team the '07 Sox were. They were especially bad in June and July when interleague play happened to be going on. I don't think the Sox could have beated the Hickory Crawdads during that period of time. However, as long as we're talking Sox vs. the NL, this was the first season in years where we finished with a losing record against the NL.

itsnotrequired
10-15-2007, 12:58 PM
The only thing our interleague record proves is how bad a team the '07 Sox were. They were especially bad in June and July when interleague play happened to be going on. I don't think the Sox could have beated the Hickory Crawdads during that period of time. However, as long as we're talking Sox vs. the NL, this was the first season in years where we finished with a losing record against the NL.

The Sox had a losing interleague record in 2004 (8-10).

Foulke You
10-15-2007, 01:05 PM
I believe the Rockies led the NL in team ERA since the all-star break. They also lit up Jake Peavy in the tie-breaker game. They are hotter than hot, and, assuming they get to the world series, they'll be no pushover for neither Boston nor Cleveland.
We'll see what happens. Maybe I'll have egg on my face when this is all over but I look at the rosters of both teams combined with AL home field advantage and I see a short World Series in the future. I don't think we'll see a repeat of the choke job that the Tigers did in the World Series last year. If the Indians and Red Sox play their game, they should beat the Rockies.

There is one factor that may benefit the Rockies though and that is the ALCS is shaping up to be a dog fight that could go 6 or 7 games while the Rockies will probably polish off the D'backs in 4 or 5 giving them time to set their World Series rotation. The Red Sox or Indians could have to start a Tim Wakefield or Paul Byrd in game 1 of the World Series and not a Sabathia or Beckett. Of course, this is all dependent on how long the ALCS ends up going.

Foulke You
10-15-2007, 01:19 PM
The Sox had a losing interleague record in 2004 (8-10).
Ok, so I was wrong about years however, there has been a period of dominance against the NL in interleague play until 2007. We were 8W-10 in '04 as you pointed out (with Frank and Maggs on the shelf) and again in '02. Not too horrible but not dominating. However, the other years in this decade for interleague play has been pretty good to the White Sox:

14W-4L in 2006
12W-6L in 2005
8W-10L in 2004
10W-8L in 2003
8W-10L in 2002
12W-6L in 2001
12W-6L in 2000

From 2000 to 2006 the White Sox were a combined 76W-50L against the NL.

SOXPHILE
10-15-2007, 01:25 PM
Sure is! And if I weren't rooting for the D'Backs, I'd be right on that Rockies bandwagon.

But what I find especially intriguing is that a team that a month ago would have been deemed a long shot to even make the playoffs has somehow morphed into America's Team. :?:

I'm still rooting for my Baby Backs, but I really wish they were playing against a team I could work up a good strong hate for.

That's how I feel. I like both those teams, and whoever wins (looks like Rockies), I'll be rooting for the NL in the Series this year. For selfish reasons, I want the Diamondbacks to win at least 2 of these games now, because I don't want anyone tying or surpassing the 11-1 record of the 2005 Sox.

manders_01
10-15-2007, 01:49 PM
Obsessed much?

The AL has dominated the NL in interleague play for a few years now. Fact. The White Sox ended the season with a terrible record. Most of the AL did not. Fact. Saying that the Rockies' pitching can/will dominate the Red Sox or Indians? FICTION.

June 12th through 14th the Red Sox hosted the Rockies.

Game 1
Rockies 1-4-0
Red Sox 2-8-0
Starting Pitchers: Cook, Wakefield

Game 2
Rockies 12-14-0
Red Sox 2-8-2
Starting Pitchers: Fogg, Schilling

Game 3
Rockies 7-12-1
Red Sox 1-10-0
Starting Pitchers: Francis, Beckett

Hit counts were about the same and obviously the defense had a big part in keeping the Red Sox runs down. But knowing that the Rockies pitching has improved even since June, I think the can dominate.