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View Full Version : How does that Lowe-Wells-Paul trade for Ritchie look now? (nm)


Viva Magglio
04-12-2002, 07:55 PM
*

CerberusWG
04-12-2002, 08:04 PM
Lowe Wells Fogg

:smile:

RichH55
04-12-2002, 08:14 PM
Well after SOMUCH of the year has been played and with hindsight.....Id say the jury is still out, eh? Dear Lord, lets at least wait until the All-Star break before making heros or goats or these trades

Pete_SSAC
04-12-2002, 10:13 PM
I dunno, giving up Lowe was quite a blow. Can't find a pitcher that will give up 4 runs in 2/3 of an inning to a team that has no offense. (aka the Cubs)

- Pete

DrCrawdad
04-13-2002, 08:25 AM
Doesn't Cy Fogg pitch today against the Cub?

baggio202
04-13-2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Doesn't Cy Fogg pitch today against the Cub?

cy fogg kicked the scrubs ass again

VeeckAsInWreck
04-13-2002, 09:59 PM
:KW
"Let's wait a little longer shall we?"
:jerry
"They still only have a "B" game!"

palehosemike
04-13-2002, 10:49 PM
Fogg has only pitched against the Cubbies - lets wait and see how he handles a quality team. Kip as usual is an underachiever -he does not have that killer instinct (kind of like Garland.) As for Lowe I was really sad to see him go. He was a versitle guy that could come out of the pen or he could start for you when needed. I think as of today he has 13 strikeouts in 5 innings of work -

The year is to l o n g and we have just started - as a previous poster stated - "The jury is still out."

PHM

bc2k
04-14-2002, 02:22 AM
The jury is already out. Ken Williams gave up a quality young pitcher in Fogg. It doesn't take an entire season to realize this. No matter what Ritchie does, Ken Williams still gave away a quality young arm. Ken could have given up someone worse and still sealed that trade. I'm sure we could find a spot for 2-0 0.64 era. Sure Fogg only faced the Cubs, but Ritchie faced KC and Bal who are just as bad. What was Ritchie's era and w-l in those two games? Although my point isn't about comparing Ritchie and Fogg. The fact is Ken Williams underestimated Fogg and gave up a quality arm.

Daver
04-14-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
The jury is already out. Ken Williams gave up a quality young pitcher in Fogg. It doesn't take an entire season to realize this. No matter what Ritchie does, Ken Williams still gave away a quality young arm. Ken could have given up someone worse and still sealed that trade. I'm sure we could find a spot for 2-0 0.64 era. Sure Fogg only faced the Cubs, but Ritchie faced KC and Bal who are just as bad. What was Ritchie's era and w-l in those two games? Although my point isn't about comparing Ritchie and Fogg. The fact is Ken Williams underestimated Fogg and gave up a quality arm.

You are talking about a pitcher that could not make it into injury riddled rotation last year,and was never called up until the rosters expanded,no team is ever going to play ALL of their prospects.

voodoochile
04-14-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by daver


You are talking about a pitcher that could not make it into injury riddled rotation last year,and was never called up until the rosters expanded,no team is ever going to play ALL of their prospects.

Exactly... Maybe people should concentrate on the players the Sox do have and not the ones they don't have and didn't want. If this team is as good as it looks on the surface, no one is going to worry about Josh Fogg come September. Sox weren't going to start Fogg either way and two starts are NOT enough time to evaluate a pitcher. If he gets shelled in his next outing will all of you come back here and say, "Wow, KW made a great trade." Ritchie is exactly what we were looking for - a consistent pitcher who will eat innings and keep the Sox in the game. He should improve as the season progresses and he becomes more comfortable in the new league and more familiar with the hitters.

As Bart Simpson used to say, "Don't have a cow, man..."

palehosemike
04-14-2002, 11:43 AM
So what your saying is that you would put all of your money on a kid who has only pitched 27.1 inninings in the majors? Hey I have a weekly poker game I would love to have you attend! :smile:

Kippy has a 11.36 ERA & Lowe has a 11.81 ERA - As stated before, let Fogg face some other teams besides the Cubs and we can evaluate the trade after the year is done. The Cubbies are batting .237 as a team <---- PATHETIC


Also Ritchie's record was pathetic with the BUCS because they only averaged 3.69 runs a game - this year the SOX average 3.33 runs for Ritchie. He is keeping us in the games he has pitched. Batters are only hitting .212 against Todd.

I would prefer to have a crafty veteran in the #2 spot than a young developing kid. And don't say Parque would be the #2 when he is healthy - he is a #4 at best in any rotation.

How about that poker game?!?!?!

PHM

baggio202
04-14-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by daver


You are talking about a pitcher that could not make it into injury riddled rotation last year,and was never called up until the rosters expanded,no team is ever going to play ALL of their prospects.

maybe fogg couldnt make our in jury riddled staff because kenny williams is a moron???...plus even if fogg made it he would have to pitch successfully with the jack kevorkian of pitching coaches feeding him information about as helpful as cyanide

RichH55
04-15-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


maybe fogg couldnt make our in jury riddled staff because kenny williams is a moron???...plus even if fogg made it he would have to pitch successfully with the jack kevorkian of pitching coaches feeding him information about as helpful as cyanide

Be reasonable........not every move can be bad, not every guy who leaves is a god because he isnt here....Kip Wells was the main component in that deal, Lowe IMO would be nice to have, but honestly shouldnt be that hard to replace, and Fogg wasn't that highly regarded, proven, or that much of a loss...I hope the kid continues to pitch well, but he is getting a chance in Pitt he wouldnt have gotten here, so if he pans out its a plus for the Pirates...thats about it....AS long as Ritchie produces there shouldnt be such a backlash against the deal

Paulwny
04-15-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by RichH55

Lowe IMO would be nice to have, but honestly shouldnt be that hard to replace,

The season has started, I don't see a decent replacement.

RichH55
04-15-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


The season has started, I don't see a decent replacement.


Key word being should......I dont think Sean Lowe is the difference between penant and no penant....and since I'm a guy who think Ritchie will perform...so I dont mind losing Lowe...not estatic over it, but not putting the gun in my mouth either

Mathew
04-15-2002, 03:12 PM
Gotta remember Lowe didn't wanna be here. He wasn't wanted and his value throughout the league was low.

Paulwny
04-15-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Gotta remember Lowe didn't wanna be here. He wasn't wanted and his value throughout the league was low.

Lowe didn't want to be here because of the way he was treated. The jury is still out on his value to this club when rain dates have to be made up and a spot starter who can go 5 effective innings is needed. Lowe could eat up innings when some of the young guns have problems and can't pitch more the 2-3 innings.

rmusacch
04-15-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by palehosemike
Fogg has only pitched against the Cubbies - lets wait and see how he handles a quality team. Kip as usual is an underachiever -he does not have that killer instinct (kind of like Garland.) As for Lowe I was really sad to see him go. He was a versitle guy that could come out of the pen or he could start for you when needed. I think as of today he has 13 strikeouts in 5 innings of work -

The year is to l o n g and we have just started - as a previous poster stated - &quot;The jury is still out.&quot;

PHM

Lowe was very inconsistent. He constantly whined about his role with the team.

Mathew
04-15-2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Lowe was very inconsistent. He constantly whined about his role with the team.

Well that's what I was saying, but I'm not as high as others on 30+ yr old middle relievers who think they are much more than that.

baggio202
04-15-2002, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


Lowe didn't want to be here because of the way he was treated. The jury is still out on his value to this club when rain dates have to be made up and a spot starter who can go 5 effective innings is needed. Lowe could eat up innings when some of the young guns have problems and can't pitch more the 2-3 innings.

i know a relative of sean's..and i know for a fact he didnt want to be traded and at first didnt like it...but now that he is in pittsburgh he is doing what a professional does..move on and do the best job he can..

i also read an interview at mlb.com with sean where he said he has nothing but good things to say about his time with the sox and if the opportunity presented itself someday he would love to come back here

RichH55
04-16-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by baggio202


i know a relative of sean's..and i know for a fact he didnt want to be traded and at first didnt like it...but now that he is in pittsburgh he is doing what a professional does..move on and do the best job he can..

i also read an interview at mlb.com with sean where he said he has nothing but good things to say about his time with the sox and if the opportunity presented itself someday he would love to come back here


Did the rest of the interview go something like "I just want to help the ballclub be it in Pittsburgh or Chicago." "I can't control the business side of things, all I can do is go out there and pitch and take it one game at a time." "Its a simple game: You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball." "I just thank great god almighty for giving me a chance to play the game I love." Just wondering :gulp: :gulp: