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View Full Version : Who would you rather have?


JermaineDye05
10-10-2007, 04:44 PM
The White Sox are going to be pursuing a new center fielder this off season, so who would you rather have of the two premier CF on the market this season Rowand or Hunter?

I would take Rowand, not because he was with the sox in 2005 and I still have an attachment to him but he has a higher career average and OBP then Torii and we know we'll get gold glove defense from Torii all season long but we don't know how he'll do playing so many more games on grass as opposed to turf. With Aaron we know what we're going to get.

It's Time
10-10-2007, 05:03 PM
Aaron. Not a doubt.

skobabe8
10-10-2007, 05:09 PM
Without looking at the splits, Torii seems like one of those guys who kills us but is average versus most everyone else, ala Mike Sweeney. Am I wrong stat heads?

MCHSoxFan
10-10-2007, 05:27 PM
Aaron. Not a doubt.

You said it!!! Also, JD05, you are correct. The turf could make a difference and we pretty much know what we will get from Aaron.

chisoxmike
10-10-2007, 05:44 PM
Neither of them really blow me away.

Foulke You
10-10-2007, 05:44 PM
Without looking at the splits, Torii seems like one of those guys who kills us but is average versus most everyone else, ala Mike Sweeney. Am I wrong stat heads?
Torii hit .287 with 28HRs, and 107 RBIs last year. These stats were not all against the White Sox.:rolleyes: For the record, against the Sox in '07, Hunter hit 3 HRs (all at US Cellular Field), had 13 RBIs, and hit .278.

Foulke You
10-10-2007, 05:48 PM
You said it!!! Also, JD05, you are correct. The turf could make a difference and we pretty much know what we will get from Aaron.
I see Hunter playing on grass as a benefit, not a detriment. The grass would be easier on his legs which would hopefully allow him to remain healthier than he did in Minnesota. Also, anyone who has watched the Sox play the Twins the last 5 years knows that Torii has no problems making highlight reel catches in our park or any other park for that matter.

I like Rowand too but Hunter is a superior defender and a better hitter with more power. There is no reason why he couldn't hit 30-35HRs playing half his games at The Cell. Of course, if Hunter's contract price approaches Soriano levels, Rowand may be the most affordable alternative for the Sox to plug the gap in CF.

eriqjaffe
10-10-2007, 05:56 PM
I'd rather have Rowand, since he's two years younger - and possibly cheaper.

MCHSoxFan
10-10-2007, 06:15 PM
I'd rather have Rowand, since he's two years younger - and possibly cheaper.

Another good point!

gr8mexico
10-10-2007, 06:22 PM
You have to go with Rowand and hope he comes cheaper then Hunter. Then sign Luis Castillo to play 2nd base. Then trade Joe Crede to the Yankees for prospects. Trade Jon Garland to the Bucs for Jason Bay to play LF.
1. Luis Castillo
2. Aaron Rowand
3. Jim Thome
4. Paul Konerko
5. Jason Bay
6. Jermaine Dye
7. A.J
8. Josh Fields
9. Juan Uribe

TDog
10-10-2007, 06:22 PM
I'd rather have Rowand, since he's two years younger - and possibly cheaper.

If Rowand has better career stats and is younger, he might not be cheaper. Hunter has a mythic reputation on defense, even winning a gold glove for the season he was injured, so I might be wrong.

Sargeant79
10-10-2007, 06:40 PM
You have to go with Rowand and hope he comes cheaper then Hunter. Then sign Luis Castillo to play 2nd base. Then trade Joe Crede to the Yankees for prospects. Trade Jon Garland to the Bucs for Jason Bay to play LF.
1. Luis Castillo
2. Aaron Rowand
3. Jim Thome
4. Paul Konerko
5. Jason Bay
6. Jermaine Dye
7. A.J
8. Josh Fields
9. Juan Uribe

Not gonna happen. It's a nice thought though...

gr8mexico
10-10-2007, 06:46 PM
Not gonna happen. It's a nice thought though...
Why couldnt that happend. The Bucs are actually looking to trade Jason Bay

QCIASOXFAN
10-10-2007, 06:50 PM
3. Jim Thome
4. Paul Konerko
5. Jason Bay
6. Jermaine Dye
7. A.J
8. Josh Fields
9. Juan Uribe
Could there be a slower 3-9 in the majors than this?

gr8mexico
10-10-2007, 06:56 PM
Could there be a slower 3-9 in the majors than this?
Actually in 2005 Jason Bay had 21 SB and by adding Rowand and Castillo it would make our team alot faster then this year and in 2006 Josh Fields had 26 stolen bases in the minor.How would this be any slower then the Red Sox roster or the 2005 White Sox. I guess you would keep the slow bunch we have now.

Jjav829
10-10-2007, 07:26 PM
It depends on the contract each will receive. Hunter is the better player, but how much more is he going to cost than Rowand in terms of years and money?

I have no idea what each will get, but I'll throw out some hypothetical numbers just to clarify my point. If you tell me Hunter will command a 5-year, $60 million deal, and Rowand a 4-year, $44 million deal, I'd say Hunter. Now if you told me Hunter would command a 5-year, $75 million deal, and Rowand 4-year, $40 million deal, I'd probably say Rowand.

Jjav829
10-10-2007, 07:28 PM
Why couldnt that happend. The Bucs are actually looking to trade Jason Bay

You're missing the point. The Bucs might look to trade Bay, but only because they see that he's going to cost a lot to lock up long term. They're not going to trade him for a pitcher who is only signed for one more year. Gio Gonzalez might get their attention. Jon Garland, not so much.

ws05champs
10-10-2007, 08:23 PM
The more I think of this the more I believe this is a tough call. I went with Hunter because I think he will do better than Rowand but age and price are certainly disadvantages for Hunter. Plus I haven't really forgotten about what he did to Jamie Burke. And I really like what Rowand added to the team in '05.

getonbckthr
10-10-2007, 10:01 PM
If we were to sign a CF I prefer Andruw Jones. Out of the 2 Hunter. Between contract year production, Byrnes' contract and over-rated catches promoted by ESPN, Rowand is gonna sign a contract that he is maybe worth 50% of.

DumpJerry
10-11-2007, 12:14 AM
You can forget about Jones. He has an off year in a contract year and Borass feels that deserves a pay raise. *****.

Forget Rowand if Hunter is still available. I'm sick of Rowand's bad jumps and space cadet baserunning.

Trade Jon Garland for a Left Fielder? That would be a bone-headed move. Garland and Buehrle do for the Sox what Cub fans used to think what Prior and Wood would do for them (win games). Given proper run support, Garland, Buehrle and Javy are a fearsome threesome.

kraut83
10-11-2007, 08:50 AM
You have to go with Rowand and hope he comes cheaper then Hunter. Then sign Luis Castillo to play 2nd base. Then trade Joe Crede to the Yankees for prospects. Trade Jon Garland to the Bucs for Jason Bay to play LF.
1. Luis Castillo
2. Aaron Rowand
3. Jim Thome
4. Paul Konerko
5. Jason Bay
6. Jermaine Dye
7. A.J
8. Josh Fields
9. Juan Uribe

True Jon can be frustratingly inconsistent, but this would give us 3 question marks in the rotation, which would likely equal about 72 wins again next year.

Sargeant79
10-11-2007, 09:08 AM
You're missing the point. The Bucs might look to trade Bay, but only because they see that he's going to cost a lot to lock up long term. They're not going to trade him for a pitcher who is only signed for one more year. Gio Gonzalez might get their attention. Jon Garland, not so much.

Thanks Jjav...beat me to it. To elaborate, Bay has 2 years before free agency, is arbitration eligible this year and next, and will still be a bargain compared with his output. Pittsburgh is not the type of team that could afford what Garland will inevitably seek on the free-agent market, therefore they'd be trading their best offensive player for an expensive one year rental.

jabrch
10-11-2007, 09:18 AM
Assuming it requires 5 years at 13mm per, I don't want either.

That kind of cash can be better spent.

D. TODD
10-11-2007, 09:20 AM
Money aside, which isn't realistic Torii Hunter would be my preference. It all depends on the money though we will see what the market says about each this winter.

jabrch
10-11-2007, 09:21 AM
Why couldnt that happend. The Bucs are actually looking to trade Jason Bay

Not for a SP, one year away from FA, who is expecting to make a 5/75 type deal.

oeo
10-11-2007, 09:47 AM
How about Willy Taveras for center? Kenny was going after him last year, and with the Rockies' surplus of outfielders, we may be able to snag him.

He's only 25 and had a breakout year this year; not all of it was due to playing in Coors, either.

Or, depending on what the Phillies do with their outfielding core (them signing Rowand may become a blessing for us), Michael Bourn may become available.

I'm just trying to find that CF/leadoff role combo.

russ99
10-11-2007, 09:48 AM
As much as I have a man-crush on Aaron, he's no where near good enough to warrant the salary he's going to get this offseason.

I'm going with Hunter for 2 reasons. First we get a good hitter, a heck of a gamer and great defensive CF. Secondly, it will cheeze off all Twins fans!

russ99
10-11-2007, 09:49 AM
How about Willy Taveras for center? Kenny was going after him last year, and with the Rockies' surplus of outfielders, we may be able to snag him.

He's only 25 and had a breakout year this year; not all of it was due to playing in Coors, either.

Or, depending on what the Phillies do with their outfielding core (them signing Rowand may become a blessing for us), Michael Bourn may become available.

I'm just trying to find that CF/leadoff role combo.

Uh, no. Willy Tavares isn't that good. He's a faster, slap hitting version of Jerry Owens. There's a reason Houston was willing to deal him, and they didn't think Pence would be ready this year either.

oeo
10-11-2007, 09:53 AM
Uh, no. Willy Tavares isn't that good. He's a faster, slap hitting version of Jerry Owens.

Oh yeah, I definitely see the comparisons. :?:

A slap hitting version? Jerry Owens is a slap hitter; he has one of the weakest swings I've ever seen.

Taveras plays good D in center, and has a good arm; not to mention he can actually hit for average. He's younger, has more experience...he's far and away a better player than Jerry Owens, at this point, and probably forever.

There's a reason Houston was willing to deal him, and they didn't think Pence would be ready this year either.No, they traded him because they wanted a SP that just had the year of his career the previous season, and thought he could help them come out on top in that weak division. Not to mention, they already lost Andy Pettite and because of that would probably lose Roger Clemens (they were desperate for starting pitching this year; why else would they trade their top pitching prospect for a mediocre-to-bad one-year rental?).

They signed Carlos Lee...you think they were just sitting around to build for a year? Taveras was 24 at the end of last year...yep, that means he cannot improve. You act as if he's 30...he's still young, and still getting better.

Flight #24
10-11-2007, 11:19 AM
IMO the bigger problem is the contract length. Using JJav's #s (Hunter at 5/$60 and Rowand at 4/$44), I'd take Rowand because I believe Hunter might be worth it for a year or 2 but that the last 3 will have him in significant decline. On the other hand, I think Rowand's young enough that he might actually improve slightly over the length of the deal. I also think Hunter's D on grass won't be as good as on turf. He'll still be excellent, but not as good as he's been in MIN.

ShoelessJoeS
10-11-2007, 12:05 PM
At the right price, Hunter would be a much better acquisition, IMO.

alohafri
10-11-2007, 01:32 PM
I'd rather have Rowand, since he's two years younger - and possibly cheaper.

I don't care about the budget. As long as this is a wishlist, give me the best baseball player for that position available. IMO, that is Torii Hunter.

Sargeant79
10-11-2007, 01:46 PM
IMO the bigger problem is the contract length. Using JJav's #s (Hunter at 5/$60 and Rowand at 4/$44), I'd take Rowand because I believe Hunter might be worth it for a year or 2 but that the last 3 will have him in significant decline. On the other hand, I think Rowand's young enough that he might actually improve slightly over the length of the deal. I also think Hunter's D on grass won't be as good as on turf. He'll still be excellent, but not as good as he's been in MIN.

Agreed as far as the contract length being a major issue. Even at $14-15 million per year, Hunter would be the better choice for the first two years or so. The problem is going to be that he won't be worth that by Year 3 or 4 of the deal. Rowand is more likely to be worth whatever he gets for the entire life of the contract.

rdwj
10-11-2007, 02:07 PM
Rowand has heart, but I think he's a tad overrated by Sox fans. Hunter plays an excellent center and has more speed - something we're desperate to add. So, I voted Hunter, but would be THRILLED with the addition of either one.

spiffie
10-11-2007, 02:29 PM
I find the offensive averages from 2004-2007 to be interesting. Obviously this says nothing about wall crashes or HR robbing or grindyness or whatever.

Rowand (2004-2007): 289/348/474/822. Per/162 games averages: 2B: 39.14, HR: 21.71, SB: 14.00

Hunter (2004-2007): 277/334/484/818. Per/162 games averages: 2B: 37.88, HR: 28.64, SB: 22.08

Of course, also keeping in mind Hunter will turn 33 in the middle of next season, while Rowand will turn 31 near the end of next season.

Personally if I could front load the deal with Hunter I would go for him, with the hope that a cheaper back end might make it either a) more palatable or b) easier to move his contract if/when his skills drop at age 36-37. But the thought of paying $15 million a year for a 37 yr old OF doesn't appeal to me too much.

eriqjaffe
10-11-2007, 03:24 PM
But the thought of paying $15 million a year for a 37 yr old OF doesn't appeal to me too much.http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/scorecard/01/24/brushback.cubs/hendry.jpg
"I agree - that's about $3 million too little!"