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Lip Man 1
10-08-2007, 12:15 PM
October 9, 1919 - The Sox unexpectedly lose the World Series to the Cincinnati Reds five games to three. Sox fans, reporters and some players are totally shocked over the way some games were lost. The questions surrounding this series, one of the greatest upsets in baseball history would linger for a year before exploding into the ‘Black Sox’ scandal.

October 9, 1993- The ‘hope’ that Sox fans were given in Game #3, turns into a roaring fire as the Sox win again in Game #4 of the A.L.C.S. 7 - 4 to tie things up at two games each with Toronto. Tim Belcher who was acquired in a July trade, gets the win in relief of Jason Bere. Unfortunately this is the last great moment for the "good guys who wear black" as Toronto closes out the series winning Game #5 in Toronto and Game #6 at Comiskey Park. A few years later Toronto manager Cito Gaston revealed that the Jays knew exactly what pitches were coming from both Sox aces Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez something the Sox coaching staff never picked up on. In fact Toronto beat those pitchers four times while losing all the other games.(Jack McDowell discussed if Toronto was stealing signs or if he was tipping his pitches in his interview with White Sox Interactive.)

Lip

chisox77
10-08-2007, 01:09 PM
I remember feeling good about the fact that the Sox were able to tie the ALCS in Toronto. Even being down 3-2 and heading home to New Comiskey, I felt the Sox had a decent chance, but if I recall, the defense was horrible in the losses. The Sox made quite a few errors in this series, and even if Toronto knew what pitches our aces were throwing, the shaky defensive play was a strong factor in that series.

:angry:

TDog
10-08-2007, 01:22 PM
October 9, 1919 - The Sox unexpectedly lose the World Series to the Cincinnati Reds five games to three. Sox fans, reporters and some players are totally shocked over the way some games were lost. The questions surrounding this series, one of the greatest upsets in baseball history would linger for a year before exploding into the ‘Black Sox’ scandal.

October 9, 1993- The ‘hope’ that Sox fans were given in Game #3, turns into a roaring fire as the Sox win again in Game #4 of the A.L.C.S. 7 - 4 to tie things up at two games each with Toronto. Tim Belcher who was acquired in a July trade, gets the win in relief of Jason Bere. Unfortunately this is the last great moment for the "good guys who wear black" as Toronto closes out the series winning Game #5 in Toronto and Game #6 at Comiskey Park. A few years later Toronto manager Cito Gaston revealed that the Jays knew exactly what pitches were coming from both Sox aces Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez something the Sox coaching staff never picked up on. In fact Toronto beat those pitchers four times while losing all the other games.(Jack McDowell discussed if Toronto was stealing signs or if he was tipping his pitches in his interview with White Sox Interactive.)

Lip


The juxtaposition of these October series are interesting, and I'm sure cleverly intentional. In 1919, the Sox lost when their two best pitchers, Lefty Williams and Eddie Cicotte, pitched (although Cicotte didn't lose his third game in the nine-game series, leaving that honor to Williams). In 1993, they Sox lost when their two best pitchers, Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez, pitched. In both cases, fans apparently were deprived from seeing those best Sox pitchers at their best.

I'm not saying the 1993 series wasn't honest or the 1919 series was. I'm not saying there was any sort of curse.

I just find it interesting.

nccwsfan
10-08-2007, 01:31 PM
October 9, 1993- The ‘hope’ that Sox fans were given in Game #3, turns into a roaring fire as the Sox win again in Game #4 of the A.L.C.S. 7 - 4 to tie things up at two games each with Toronto. Tim Belcher who was acquired in a July trade, gets the win in relief of Jason Bere. Unfortunately this is the last great moment for the "good guys who wear black" as Toronto closes out the series winning Game #5 in Toronto and Game #6 at Comiskey Park. A few years later Toronto manager Cito Gaston revealed that the Jays knew exactly what pitches were coming from both Sox aces Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez something the Sox coaching staff never picked up on. In fact Toronto beat those pitchers four times while losing all the other games.(Jack McDowell discussed if Toronto was stealing signs or if he was tipping his pitches in his interview with White Sox Interactive.)

Lip


Lip, did Cito Gaston say that McDowell and Fernandez were tipping their pitches or did he say they were stealing signs? If it was the former did he elaborate on what gave it away? Thanks.

Edit: Lip, I read your interview with Jack McDowell- this answered my question. Thanks.

SBSoxFan
10-08-2007, 01:35 PM
The juxtaposition of these October series are interesting, and I'm sure cleverly intentional. In 1919, the Sox lost when their two best pitchers, Lefty Williams and Eddie Cicotte, pitched (although Cicotte didn't lose his third game in the nine-game series, leaving that honor to Williams). In 1993, they Sox lost when their two best pitchers, Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez, pitched. In both cases, fans apparently were deprived from seeing those best Sox pitchers at their best.

I'm not saying the 1993 series wasn't honest or the 1919 series was. I'm not saying there was any sort of curse.

I just find it interesting.


McDowell threw the series to fund Stick Figure!

TDog
10-08-2007, 09:19 PM
McDowell threw the series to fund Stick Figure!

I didn't mean to imply that anyone internationally lost. I was referring to the Blue Jays possibly cheating. Considering that the Blue Jays' 1992 World Series share exceeded $144,000, there no longer is a chance that players will be bought off the way that history holds they were in 1919 and many believe they were in 1918.

EastCoastSoxFan
10-09-2007, 01:26 PM
October 9, 1993- The ‘hope’ that Sox fans were given in Game #3, turns into a roaring fire as the Sox win again in Game #4 of the A.L.C.S. 7 - 4 to tie things up at two games each with Toronto. Tim Belcher who was acquired in a July trade, gets the win in relief of Jason Bere. I seem to remember Lance Johnson hitting a home run and a triple to power the offense in that game, which would probably have been the only time in his career that he ever amassed 7 or more total bases in one game...

asindc
10-09-2007, 02:41 PM
I seem to remember Lance Johnson hitting a home run and a triple to power the offense in that game, which would probably have been the only time in his career that he ever amassed 7 or more total bases in one game...

OneDog did hit a home run that game, his first of the season if I recall correctly. My brother immediately called me and said, "we are going to win this game." Learning about the Jays knowing our pitchers, it makes more sense now than it did then that the Sox lost the series.