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View Full Version : Torre Out if Yankees Lose


RKMeibalane
10-07-2007, 09:52 AM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3052904)

Edit: Title should read "Lose" rather than "Loose." Thanks!

itsnotrequired
10-07-2007, 09:59 AM
Well his contract is up after this year. It sounds like they won't renew. It is a bit misleading to suggest he is "out" (i.e. fired).

voodoochile
10-07-2007, 10:00 AM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3052904)

Edit: Title should read "Lose" rather than "Loose." Thanks!

You can edit the title by editing your post and correcting the title of the post. Only works if you started the thread obviously...

getonbckthr
10-07-2007, 10:22 AM
So after tonight the Yankees will need:
Manager, 1B, 3B, SP (3), RP (3?), C

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 10:33 AM
This reminds me of how in June it was Torre's fault the Yankees were so lousy and once again in August and September how it was Torre responsible for their dominance.

I don't know how much a manager affects a team, but fact is, Torre's been around a while and though his teams have had a lot of talent, they've also been successful.

I'm not sure I see the logic of replacing him, but then again, I very rarely see the logic in Cashbrenner's personnel decisions

Fenway
10-07-2007, 10:50 AM
George was right about one thing as that game should have been stopped. Never dull in da Bronx.

HomeFish
10-07-2007, 10:51 AM
Yankee managers don't just grow on trees; only a special breed can handle the pressure of that job. Who are they going to replace Torre with? Buck Showalter?

I don't see a potential replacement, so I think Torre stays.

RKMeibalane
10-07-2007, 11:03 AM
You can edit the title by editing your post and correcting the title of the post. Only works if you started the thread obviously...

I tried that, but it didn't for some reason. Thanks for fixing it.

RKMeibalane
10-07-2007, 11:05 AM
Yankee managers don't just grow on trees; only a special breed can handle the pressure of that job. Who are they going to replace Torre with? Buck Showalter?

I don't see a potential replacement, so I think Torre stays.

Joe Girardi and Don Mattingly are two possibilities.

beckett21
10-07-2007, 11:18 AM
George was right about one thing as that game should have been stopped. Never dull in da Bronx.

I'd be curious to find out if he still would have thought it should have been stopped if the Yankees had won the game.

Both teams had to play under the same circumstances. Put on some bug spray, quit whining and play. I thought these guys were supposed to be professionals.

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 11:48 AM
I'd be curious to find out if he still would have thought it should have been stopped if the Yankees had won the game.

Both teams had to play under the same circumstances. Put on some bug spray, quit whining and play. I thought these guys were supposed to be professionals.

This is true, but you can say that about any inclement conditions.

Were the bugs any less detrimental to the safety of the game than rain?

When a pitcher's vision is effected after a pitch, that's probably a reason for a game to be postponed. Was that the case in Cleveland? Torre seems to think so...

beckett21
10-07-2007, 12:01 PM
This is true, but you can say that about any inclement conditions.

Were the bugs any less detrimental to the safety of the game than rain?

When a pitcher's vision is effected after a pitch, that's probably a reason for a game to be postponed. Was that the case in Cleveland? Torre seems to think so...

This may be true, but it still smacks of sour grapes. There is such a thing as losing with class. Big Stein doesn't know how to do that.

I didn't watch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. Did Torre come out to meet with the Umpires and complain that the game should be stopped? I'm asking because I don't know. If he was that concerned, then he should have. If not, then they have no reason to complain now IMO.

ChiSoxFan35
10-07-2007, 12:18 PM
I was always of the school of thought that Cashman should shoulder a lot of the blame, since a team with such a big payroll goes into a year with so many holes.

But after spending time in NY and regularly watching the games, seeing the decisions, hearing interviews and weekly on air appearances, a lot of people do give Joe Torre too much credit. He's great at handling his clubhouse, but in game decisions...:\

downstairs
10-07-2007, 12:22 PM
I'd be curious to find out if he still would have thought it should have been stopped if the Yankees had won the game.

Both teams had to play under the same circumstances. Put on some bug spray, quit whining and play. I thought these guys were supposed to be professionals.

Actually- IT WAS THEIR OWN FAULT! You don't use bug spray for those types of bugs... it makes you wetter, which makes them want to be on you more! Their trainer is an idiot.

beckett21
10-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Actually- IT WAS THEIR OWN FAULT! You don't use bug spray for those types of bugs... it makes you wetter, which makes them want to be on you more! Their trainer is an idiot.

Interesting. Shows what I know about bugs. :redneck

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 01:04 PM
This may be true, but it still smacks of sour grapes. There is such a thing as losing with class. Big Stein doesn't know how to do that.

I didn't watch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. Did Torre come out to meet with the Umpires and complain that the game should be stopped? I'm asking because I don't know. If he was that concerned, then he should have. If not, then they have no reason to complain now IMO.

I agree with everything here. I just give Torre (not Steinbrenner) the benefit of the doubt. Torre, with the exception of how he threw A-Rod under the bus last year, has generally been unassailable from a "class" standpoint...

beckett21
10-07-2007, 01:14 PM
I agree with everything here. I just give Torre (not Steinbrenner) the benefit of the doubt. Torre, with the exception of how he threw A-Rod under the bus last year, has generally been unassailable from a "class" standpoint...

...which is why I'm surprised he (Torre) has lasted so long there.

My comments were directed at Steinbrenner for the most part; I was just confused by your statement about Torre. If he had a complaint, he should have voiced it to the umps at the time. Maybe he did; that's the part I don't know. I didn't hear any of his post-game comments either, so I don't know if he was complaining or not. To cry foul after you lost the game is poor sportsmanship though, to which it seems we both agree.

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 01:22 PM
...which is why I'm surprised he (Torre) has lasted so long there.

My comments were directed at Steinbrenner for the most part; I was just confused by your statement about Torre. If he had a complaint, he should have voiced it to the umps at the time. Maybe he did; that's the part I don't know. I didn't hear any of his post-game comments either, so I don't know if he was complaining or not. To cry foul after you lost the game is poor sportsmanship though, to which it seems we both agree.


Frankly, I'm underinformed as usual...I'm just going by hearsay and conjecture as per usual...

but I did see a lot of that game and those guh-nats were pretty ****ing brutal....I remember thinking it seemed pretty dangerous to continue playing

beckett21
10-07-2007, 01:28 PM
Frankly, I'm underinformed as usual...I'm just going by hearsay and conjecture as per usual...

but I did see a lot of that game and those guh-nats were pretty ****ing brutal....I remember thinking it seemed pretty dangerous to continue playing

We're carrying on a pretty good discussion for two guys who don't know what the hell went on. :redneck

It was pretty bad. Joba Chamberlain looked like a bee-keeper. A delay definitely would have been justified, all I want to know is if the Yankees asked for one and were refused. If so, then Steinbrenner has a right to complain (even though he is still wrong). If not then he needs to shut up as per usual.

ChiSoxFan35
10-07-2007, 03:25 PM
The trainer sprayed some WD40, that's why his mechanics were all screwed up after that

Yes, there is no doubt in my mind those ants or bugs were bothering him, they weren't mosquitos so they got even more attracted with that spray, and they were eating him alive. Have never seen him that wild, hitting batters and wild pitches left and right

getonbckthr
10-07-2007, 04:03 PM
Well Torre is making 7 million a year. At that price anything but World Series games isn't acceptable.

soxfanreggie
10-07-2007, 09:35 PM
With how much they spend on Torre and how much they spend in payroll, an early exit from the ALDS and no WS titles in a 7 year span is really bad. They should focus on jettisoning some of their high contracts and getting younger talent in there. For every person they bring on that helps them with $10 mil+ contracts, they seem to take on 2 that are busts.

If Torre leaves, could he end up replacing LaRussa in StL? Might have to take a serious pay cut, but it's not like he needs the money. After this job with the Yankees, he shouldn't have much need for more money. He could probably still get $4-5 mil if he went to the Cards though.

DumpJerry
10-07-2007, 10:32 PM
I blame ARod for the World Series drought. He is Mr. April. His vacations seem to start on September 30th each year. What a waste of $$$. I'd love to hear how Borass explains that.

Scottiehaswheels
10-07-2007, 10:48 PM
I blame ARod for the World Series drought. He is Mr. April. His vacations seem to start on September 30th each year. What a waste of $$$. I'd love to hear how Borass explains that.To bad a team couldn't do a reverse Clemens situation with him. Only pay him for the first half of the year and let him take the rest of the year off.. LOL

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 10:53 PM
I blame ARod for the World Series drought. He is Mr. April. His vacations seem to start on September 30th each year. What a waste of $$$. I'd love to hear how Borass explains that.

:rolleyes:

Yeah it's totally A-Rod's fault that the Yankees "ace" this year had a 1.26 WHIP and a 3.70 ERA

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2007, 11:22 PM
...they were eating him alive.Those are Mayflies, also called Canadian soldiers. They have no mouth parts and don't bite. They emerge from their "nymph" state in Lake Erie and only live for one day, with the sole purpose of breeding. Annoying? Yes. Eating him alive? No.

Boondock Saint
10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
Those are Mayflies, also called Canadian soldiers. They have no mouth parts and don't bite. They emerge from their "nymph" state in Lake Erie and only live for one day, with the sole purpose of breeding. Annoying? Yes. Eating him alive? No.

Nudging him alive? *shrugs*

JorgeFabregas
10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
To bad a team couldn't do a reverse Clemens situation with him. Only pay him for the first half of the year and let him take the rest of the year off.. LOL
You think he had a bad second half? Look at his post-AS game stats.

fquaye149
10-07-2007, 11:57 PM
you don't understand! he's a-rod! he had a couple bad postseason series so that means that he's not good unless the games don't mater!:o:

FarWestChicago
10-08-2007, 07:33 AM
you don't understand! he's a-rod! he had a couple bad postseason series so that means that he's not good unless the games don't mater!:o:To be fair, it's more than a couple now. IIRC, he was decent in the postseason with the M's. I think his playoff performance has declined since he became Pay-Rod.

:payrod

But I'm laughing all the way to the bank!

spiffie
10-08-2007, 08:00 AM
To be fair, it's more than a couple now. IIRC, he was decent in the postseason with the M's. I think his playoff performance has declined since he became Pay-Rod.
He wasn't bad in 2004, notwithstanding his dumbass move where he tried to slap the ball away. In the 2004 ALDS he was dominant, hitting 421/476/737. Even in the LCS he was decent hitting 258.378/516.

Since then he has been a disaster. In the last three playoff series he is a combined 5 for 39 with 8 walks, 1 double, and no home runs for a line of 128/277/154.

fquaye149
10-08-2007, 08:06 AM
He wasn't bad in 2004, notwithstanding his dumbass move where he tried to slap the ball away. In the 2004 ALDS he was dominant, hitting 421/476/737. Even in the LCS he was decent hitting 258.378/516.

Since then he has been a disaster. In the last three playoff series he is a combined 5 for 39 with 8 walks, 1 double, and no home runs for a line of 128/277/154.

Well in this playoff series, he's had 2 hitless games and one 2-4 game

Time will tell if this is a good series or not. So that means he has had 2 bad series and one not so great series so-far.

Plus, the pitching he's faced in the last three series has been very good....no one on his team has hit...

Oblong
10-08-2007, 08:10 AM
To be fair, it's more than a couple now. IIRC, he was decent in the postseason with the M's. I think his playoff performance has declined since he became Pay-Rod.



After the third inning of game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, ARod was 33-86 (.384) with 6 HR and 17 RBI in his post season career. (not counting 1995 when he had 2 at bats in a callup role).

Since then he's 5-42 (.119) with 0 HR and 0 RBI.

FarWestChicago
10-08-2007, 08:11 AM
After the third inning of game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, ARod was 33-86 (.384) with 6 HR and 17 RBI in his post season career. (not counting 1995 when he had 2 at bats in a callup role).

Since then he's 5-42 (.119) with 0 HR and 0 RBI.What he said. :D:

fquaye149
10-08-2007, 08:16 AM
I don't think I can do anything but agree that those 42 at bats have been bad.

I guess the big difference is whether 42 at bats is enough to say something ridiculous like this about:

I blame ARod for the World Series drought.

especially when the Yankees haven't had any good starting pitching since 2003

spiffie
10-08-2007, 08:23 AM
Well in this playoff series, he's had 2 hitless games and one 2-4 game

Time will tell if this is a good series or not. So that means he has had 2 bad series and one not so great series so-far.

Plus, the pitching he's faced in the last three series has been very good....no one on his team has hit...
That last part isn't exactly true. Just some quick batting averages for Yankees the last 3 series:
Jeter:327 (even with his 1 for 12 this series)
Posada: 297 (admittedly mostly from 2006)
Giambi: 333
Damon: 256
The only guys who have been consistently as terrible are Matsui and Cano.

FarWestChicago
10-08-2007, 08:26 AM
I guess the big difference is whether 42 at bats is enough to say something ridiculous like this about:I just look forward to any opportunity to bust out:

:payrod

I love that one. :D:

fquaye149
10-08-2007, 08:59 AM
That last part isn't exactly true. Just some quick batting averages for Yankees the last 3 series:
Jeter:327 (even with his 1 for 12 this series)
Posada: 297 (admittedly mostly from 2006)
Giambi: 333
Damon: 256
The only guys who have been consistently as terrible are Matsui and Cano.

Sure...but Jeter also went .200 in 30 ABs in the 2004 ALCS...which is just about as big a sample size as A-Rods no for 42

nysox35
10-08-2007, 09:10 AM
I'd be ok with not re-upping Torre if it meant signing Girardi. I, unlike most Yankee fans, am not drinking the Mattingly kool aid.

I'm just glad they won last night so that I can go tonight. Also, thank you Fenway! By virtue of your sweep, the game was pushed back to 7:30, so I can leave work at a normal time. :smile:

Oblong
10-08-2007, 09:15 AM
IN last night's game Jeter came up with his team down and runners on first and third with one out. He hit into a DP. I thought "If ARod did that, they'd be all over him". I think he gets too much benefit of the doubt and ARod too much heat. Arod's post season record speaks for itself. However I do think the critics go too far and do their cause no justice when they go so far over the top. That goes for fans and the media. It's very tricky when analyzing post season stats. People don't look at the whole picture and there's a lot of circumstances that make each series unique. I don't like ARod but if I'm a yankee fan I'd want him on my team in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

Jack Morris is often referred to as a clutch playoff performer but check out his non 1984/1991 post season stats. They are as putrid as those two years are great.

Reggie Jackson?

1973 ALCS, 5 games: 0 RBI
1974 ALCS, 4 games: 1 RBI
1974 WS, 5 games: 1 RBI
1977 ALCS, 5 games: 1 RBI
1980 ALCS, 3 games: 0 RBI

SBSoxFan
10-08-2007, 09:16 AM
Those are Mayflies, also called Canadian soldiers. They have no mouth parts and don't bite. They emerge from their "nymph" state in Lake Erie and only live for one day, with the sole purpose of breeding. Annoying? Yes. Eating him alive? No.

So instead of biting him, they were breeding on him? Yuck. :redneck

Anyway, I don't see the point in telling a newspaper: "If we don't come back in this series, we might not keep him [Torre]", given the situation. Just keep quiet, let them play the game and go from there.

I was always of the school of thought that Cashman should shoulder a lot of the blame, since a team with such a big payroll goes into a year with so many holes.

I'd always felt the same way, but it seems Cashman's hands are often tied by directives from Steinbrenner. With that, it should be pointed out that Clemens left the game in the second (?) inning last night with yet more hamstring troubles.

nysox35
10-08-2007, 09:19 AM
IN last night's game Jeter came up with his team down and runners on first and third with one out. He hit into a DP. I thought "If ARod did that, they'd be all over him". I think he gets too much benefit of the doubt and ARod too much heat. Arod's post season record speaks for itself. However I do think the critics go too far and do their cause no justice when they go so far over the top. That goes for fans and the media. It's very tricky when analyzing post season stats. People don't look at the whole picture and there's a lot of circumstances that make each series unique. I don't like ARod but if I'm a yankee fan I'd want him on my team in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

Jack Morris is often referred to as a clutch playoff performer but check out his non 1984/1991 post season stats. They are as putrid as those two years are great.

Reggie Jackson?

1973 ALCS, 5 games: 0 RBI
1974 ALCS, 4 games: 1 RBI
1974 WS, 5 games: 1 RBI
1977 ALCS, 5 games: 1 RBI
1980 ALCS, 3 games: 0 RBI

Interesting #'s and well said. People started going nuts out here with each at-bat of A-Rod's. It's gotten beyond ridiculous. I'm hoping the Yankees come back and win the series with good play from A-Rod, b/c if they go down and/or he doesn't play well, I can't see him putting up with this crap much longer...

spiffie
10-08-2007, 09:19 AM
Sure...but Jeter also went .200 in 30 ABs in the 2004 ALCS...which is just about as big a sample size as A-Rods no for 42
Agreed. I think Jeter is generally overrated. But your statement was that no one else had hit the last three series for the Yanks. I tend to agree that the sample size argument makes this an entertaining topic to discuss but not really anything to take too seriously. But whatever the reason for A-Rod's failures the last few years, it doesn't seem to be shutdown pitching so good no one around could have hoped to catch up either.