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View Full Version : Sox Can Shines, Reassign Kusnyer


Viva Medias B's
10-05-2007, 03:04 PM
In case no one posted yet, here's the Sox release on this.

Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071005&content_id=2251838&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

BainesHOF
10-05-2007, 03:04 PM
As per the Score.

LITTLE NELL
10-05-2007, 03:04 PM
Sox fire Shines per Tribune.

WizardsofOzzie
10-05-2007, 03:06 PM
Ahhh the run to another WS title has begun :rolleyes:

Crede_Fan
10-05-2007, 03:06 PM
:o: Where'd that come from?

Viva Medias B's
10-05-2007, 03:07 PM
I wonder what the bullpen will be like without Cave there.

champagne030
10-05-2007, 03:14 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see Ozzie recommend his son for the position. He doesn't seem to like anyone on his staff that believes Ozzie's **** stinks.

southsideirish71
10-05-2007, 03:16 PM
So we move Cave out of the bullpen, yet Walker still has a job. I guess Shines didnt play cards as well as Walk.

Domeshot17
10-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Anyone who blames Walker for the offensive woes is a dumbass. No hitting coach in the world is going to have a good offense that consists of Uribe Cintron Terrero Andy Gonzalez Owens Richar and a 70% healthy Toby Hall. This is debatable, but I would say Rudy Jaramillo from Texas is one of the top hitting coaches in the league, and he wouldnt have done anything with that group. At some point you have to blame the fact we are running a lineup that may not compete at a triple A level everyday because half of it has no talent offensively.

Im not giving Walk a free pass, next year he has to improve, and he needs to focus on getting guys like PK back on track. But Konerko was about the only guy who had a 'down year'. Dye sucked in the first half but always starts slow and played a huge amount of time pre all star break with bad quads. Thome was fine, AJ was off a little but AJ really is never an offensive "force". I think part of the reason PK struggled so much was no protection. He had a struggling Dye and AJ between him for a lot of the first half while Thome was hurt.

Walk gets one more season to me. If nothing is clicking by june next year, then fire him. I don't hear people calling for Coopers head because of how bad our pitching was.

oeo
10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Was Shines doing something special that I'm missing, or what? I thought he stunk.

mrfourni
10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
God, I hope this doesn't mean that Joey Cora's going back to third.

Razor Shines is such a cool baseball name.

nccwsfan
10-05-2007, 03:29 PM
Can someone with reasonable knowledge on the situation let us know why Shines would have been let go? I don't remember hearing him being in jeopardy (although I also might have forgotten).

Thanks.

dickallen15
10-05-2007, 03:31 PM
Was Shines doing something special that I'm missing, or what? I thought he stunk.
How can you tell? He seemed to give nice signs. As far as his ability as a traffic cop at third, I think there were far too few runners to form an opinion. At least we know it was Razor's fault the Sox were battling with KC in 2007.

skobabe8
10-05-2007, 03:33 PM
Was Shines doing something special that I'm missing, or what? I thought he stunk.

Wasnt he pretty successful in the minors as a manager? Thats about all i knew about him.

spiffie
10-05-2007, 03:36 PM
Somewhere a single tear rolls down ondafarm's cheek.

oeo
10-05-2007, 03:41 PM
Wasnt he pretty successful in the minors as a manager? Thats about all i knew about him.

I thought the young guys liked him (at least according to Hawk...but Hawk might say they hated him next year). But as far as his decisions at third, I didn't think too highly of them. If we actually could score runs, I think he would have stuck out as a bigger problem.

Hosey22
10-05-2007, 03:46 PM
This move does not make a lot of sense to me. As far as I remember at Soxfest last year the young players were raving about Shines. He was decent at third base and knew the game well. Our hitting as a team has been awful since July of 06 yet Walker remains part of the organization. I don't get it. I know he's not the root of our hitting problems, but he certainly isn't helping. I think we are way overdue for a change at hitting coach.

chisoxmike
10-05-2007, 03:53 PM
I guess Ondafarm can forget about his wet dream of Shines replacing Ozzie.

WE'RE DOOMED!

Brian26
10-05-2007, 03:54 PM
So we move Cave out of the bullpen, yet Walker still has a job. I guess Shines didnt play cards as well as Walk.

The bottom line is that none of us know what was going on behind the scenes this year in terms of preparation by the coaches or what kind of relationships were being developed between Shines and the team. Any talk beyond that is pure speculation.

thomas35forever
10-05-2007, 04:06 PM
They kept pretty quiet about Shine this year, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe they had a falling out or something and they just chose not to go public with it and risk the club's reputation on how it handles coaches. There has to be more to the story.

southsideirish71
10-05-2007, 04:14 PM
Anyone who blames Walker for the offensive woes is a dumbass. No hitting coach in the world is going to have a good offense that consists of Uribe Cintron Terrero Andy Gonzalez Owens Richar and a 70% healthy Toby Hall. This is debatable, but I would say Rudy Jaramillo from Texas is one of the top hitting coaches in the league, and he wouldnt have done anything with that group. At some point you have to blame the fact we are running a lineup that may not compete at a triple A level everyday because half of it has no talent offensively.

Im not giving Walk a free pass, next year he has to improve, and he needs to focus on getting guys like PK back on track. But Konerko was about the only guy who had a 'down year'. Dye sucked in the first half but always starts slow and played a huge amount of time pre all star break with bad quads. Thome was fine, AJ was off a little but AJ really is never an offensive "force". I think part of the reason PK struggled so much was no protection. He had a struggling Dye and AJ between him for a lot of the first half while Thome was hurt.

Walk gets one more season to me. If nothing is clicking by june next year, then fire him. I don't hear people calling for Coopers head because of how bad our pitching was.

How many years will it take. In 05 we had a bad offense, last in doubles, near the bottom half in OBP, bad batting average, and 14th in runs scored. The offense scared the crap out of everyone in 05 and people were worried that it would spoil the awesome pitching we had. Luckily, they all clicked and got hot at the right time in the last week of the season, and it carried into the playoffs.

Foulke You
10-05-2007, 04:24 PM
I guess the Sox are blaming "Cave" Kusyner for some of the bullpen woes?? Honestly, I don't see why he is to blame. We won a World Series with him...did he suddenly become stupid?

Razor Shines firing surprised me. I thought he was one of Kenny's guys. I agree with previous posters though. It is really hard to evaluate his performance as a 3rd base coach since we had so few base runners this year.

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-05-2007, 04:25 PM
Why on Earth would they fire Razor? He's a good guy, and there seems to be no underlying incentive to fire him. Sure, take some action, but seriously. This is outrageous.


:whiner::whiner::whiner:

downstairs
10-05-2007, 04:40 PM
No team will ever, ever, ever win a World Series with Razor Shines as their third base coach. Good move, Kenny!

/sarcasm implied.

Steelrod
10-05-2007, 04:42 PM
I guess the Sox are blaming "Cave" Kusyner for some of the bullpen woes?? Honestly, I don't see why he is to blame. We won a World Series with him...did he suddenly become stupid?

Razor Shines firing surprised me. I thought he was one of Kenny's guys. I agree with previous posters though. It is really hard to evaluate his performance as a 3rd base coach since we had so few base runners this year.
Cave has had an ongoing eye problem all year.

Daver
10-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Wasnt he pretty successful in the minors as a manager? Thats about all i knew about him.

If you call having your team completely quit on you one month into the season, as the Winston Salem team did a few years ago, successful, your perception of the word is different than mine.

Foulke You
10-05-2007, 05:50 PM
Cave has had an ongoing eye problem all year.
I thought he had the same surgery Hawkeroo had to fix the problem. Oh well, I suppose it may be medical reasons why he is leaving.

JB98
10-05-2007, 06:15 PM
I guess the Sox are blaming "Cave" Kusyner for some of the bullpen woes?? Honestly, I don't see why he is to blame. We won a World Series with him...did he suddenly become stupid?

Razor Shines firing surprised me. I thought he was one of Kenny's guys. I agree with previous posters though. It is really hard to evaluate his performance as a 3rd base coach since we had so few base runners this year.

I highly doubt Cave is being blamed for the bullpen woes. As others have indicated, Cave has a health issue that may be preventing him from doing the job full-time in the future.

I can't understand the outrage being expressed by some here about the Shines firing. I challenge anyone to come up with evidence that Shines was an essential, irreplaceable part of the Sox organization.

itsnotrequired
10-05-2007, 06:17 PM
With Kusnyer re-assigned, who's skottyj242 going to talk to in the bullpen now? Chief is okay but c'mon...

dickallen15
10-05-2007, 06:22 PM
I thought he had the same surgery Hawkeroo had to fix the problem. Oh well, I suppose it may be medical reasons why he is leaving.
Could be, but the bullpen has been horrible the last 2 seasons. Maybe they used the eyes excuse as a reason to bring someone new in there.

Law11
10-05-2007, 07:00 PM
I read over the season somewhere that he rubbed a few players the wrong way in the clubhouse for what thats worth.. of course no names as to who
or what he did or said. Like I said for whats it worth.

trying to find the artice. It was a small bit in the times over the summer I remember reading.

drewcifer
10-05-2007, 07:09 PM
I read over the season somewhere that he rubbed a few players the wrong way in the clubhouse for what thats worth.. of course no names as to who
or what he did or said. Like I said for whats it worth.

trying to find the artice. It was a small bit in the times over the summer I remember reading.

Is that you, Ozzie Train? :tongue:

TDog
10-05-2007, 07:11 PM
Cave has had an ongoing eye problem all year.

And he'll turn 62 later this year. He may be close to retirement. I don't know what the extent of Cave's reassignment will be, but I'm sure he could do with less travel.

I'm guessing his reassignment has nothing to do with the performance of the bullpen. He has spent about 19 seasons as a bullpen coach for the Sox in stints sandwiched around a bullpen coaching gig with the A's. He has World Series rings for his work with the White Sox and A's, but he also has helped warm up some bad relievers even beforethe 2005 season.

Cave is old school baseball. He made his major league debut in the second game of a 1970 doubleheader with a paid attendance of 672. I'll miss knowing he is in the bullpen.

TomBradley72
10-05-2007, 07:38 PM
Any word if we're bringing Man Soo Lee back?...big hole out in the bullpen this year. :cool:

A. Cavatica
10-05-2007, 08:44 PM
I can't understand the outrage being expressed by some here about the Shines firing. I challenge anyone to come up with evidence that Shines was an essential, irreplaceable part of the Sox organization.

Shines was of course replaceable, but this smells of politics. To single out Shines (Cave doesn't count, he has health issues) is ridiculous.

My guess is Ozzie didn't want a potential replacement around, and since Shines was an outsider who never played for the Sox, it was easy to force him out.

Daver
10-05-2007, 09:07 PM
Shines was of course replaceable, but this smells of politics. To single out Shines (Cave doesn't count, he has health issues) is ridiculous.

My guess is Ozzie didn't want a potential replacement around, and since Shines was an outsider who never played for the Sox, it was easy to force him out.

You are really reaching on this one.

Kenny Williams would never hire Razor to manage a big league team after he lost a team in A ball.

Brian26
10-05-2007, 09:10 PM
Shines was of course replaceable, but this smells of politics. To single out Shines (Cave doesn't count, he has health issues) is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is blaming the entire season on Shines or using him as an "out." Ozzie just decided he didn't want to bring him back. There are many possible reasons, but I don't think anyone is saying the thirdbase coach cost the Sox the season, nor will the new coach make them instant division champs.

JB98
10-05-2007, 09:16 PM
Shines was of course replaceable, but this smells of politics. To single out Shines (Cave doesn't count, he has health issues) is ridiculous.

My guess is Ozzie didn't want a potential replacement around, and since Shines was an outsider who never played for the Sox, it was easy to force him out.

It's amazing some of the conspiracy theories people bake up about Ozzie. Our manager just signed a contract extension THROUGH 2012. He has a great deal of job security. If you honestly believe Ozzie fired Shines because he was fearful that Razor would take his job, you are delusional.

That's your "guess," but my guess is your full of beans.

JB98
10-05-2007, 09:19 PM
I don't think anyone is blaming the entire season on Shines or using him as an "out." Ozzie just decided he didn't want to bring him back. There are many possible reasons, but I don't think anyone is saying the thirdbase coach cost the Sox the season, nor will the new coach make them instant division champs.

Ozzie said he would like to add a coach to the staff who will help the team improve its baserunning and situational hitting. He doesn't feel Razor is that guy, so he decided to go in a different direction. Ozzie added that Razor did a good job this season.

Lip Man 1
10-05-2007, 09:19 PM
Story on this at White Sox.com. Quotes Ozzie. The issues 'appears' to be because Shines couldn't teach "fundamentals" very well.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071005&content_id=2252222&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

As far as Shines' replacement is concerned, Guillen sounds as though he wants someone who can multitask and work on such fundamental skills as baserunning and situational baseball.

"When we talk about the stuff we're going to do, we need someone to step it up and do those type of things," Guillen said. "[Bench coach] Joey Cora has a lot of stuff to worry about, and he doesn't need that worry on his shoulders.

"I'm the one who [gave him] a shot at the big league level, but unfortunately, it didn't work out," added Guillen. "It wasn't because we win or lose. It's because I need someone to work on some stuff, and he wasn't the right guy to have that job."

Lip

Frontman
10-05-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm not about to lose sleep over it, but it just seems odd that Shines wasn't the guy. Ah well, there goes the coolest name for a baseball coach.

Grzegorz
10-05-2007, 10:10 PM
As far as Shines' replacement is concerned, Guillen sounds as though he wants someone who can multitask and work on such fundamental skills as baserunning and situational baseball.Lip

I can't wait to see who Guillen recommends.

FarWestChicago
10-05-2007, 10:14 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see Ozzie recommend his son for the position. He doesn't seem to like anyone on his staff that believes Ozzie's **** stinks.You would be the expert on this site when it comes to irrational hatred. I'm going with what you say.

champagne030
10-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Shines was of course replaceable, but this smells of politics. To single out Shines (Cave doesn't count, he has health issues) is ridiculous.

My guess is Ozzie didn't want a potential replacement around, and since Shines was an outsider who never played for the Sox, it was easy to force him out.

Yes, it does smell of politics. I do, however, doubt Ozzie is worried about his job with his extension through the next decade.

I find it funny that Ozzie wants someone to teach fundamentals, but then *****es that it's not the job of people at the big league level to teach fundamentals. :dunno: I suspect it'll be another lapdog for Ozzie's card and drinking games.

FarWestChicago
10-05-2007, 10:17 PM
You are really reaching on this one.

Kenny Williams would never hire Razor to manage a big league team after he lost a team in A ball.A. Cavatica reaching in an attempt to make himself look like an internet genius in search of a home for fame and fortune? I'm totally shocked.

FarWestChicago
10-05-2007, 10:19 PM
Yes, it does smell of politics. I do, however, doubt Ozzie is worried about his job with his extension through the next decade.

I find it funny that Ozzie wants someone to teach fundamentals, but then *****es that it's not the job of people at the big league level to teach fundamentals. :dunno: I suspect it'll be another lapdog for Ozzie's card and drinking games.We have a hater and a conspiracy nut on the same page. All is complete.

champagne030
10-05-2007, 10:23 PM
You would be the expert on this site when it comes to irrational hatred. I'm going with what you say.

I'm just trying to bring a little counterbalance to irrational pollyanna-ism. :D:

JB98
10-05-2007, 10:32 PM
Yes, it does smell of politics. I do, however, doubt Ozzie is worried about his job with his extension through the next decade.

I find it funny that Ozzie wants someone to teach fundamentals, but then *****es that it's not the job of people at the big league level to teach fundamentals. :dunno: I suspect it'll be another lapdog for Ozzie's card and drinking games.

I don't know why it "smells of politics." Ozzie fired one of his closest friends last offseason (Tim Raines). Ozzie is going to do whatever he feels is necessary to win. If he doesn't win, he will ultimately be held accountable.

I guess some people just believe what they want to believe. :dunno:

FarWestChicago
10-05-2007, 10:33 PM
I'm just trying to bring a little counterbalance to irrational pollyanna-ism. :D:No, you do nothing but bring clinically treatable anger and hatred to the fore.

FarWestChicago
10-05-2007, 10:34 PM
I don't know why it "smells of politics." Ozzie fired one of his closest friends last offseason (Tim Raines). Ozzie is going to do whatever he feels is necessary to win. If he doesn't win, he will ultimately be held accountable.

I guess some people just believe what they want to believe. :dunno:You are dealing with a complete nutcase. Why expect any semblance of rational thought?

KyWhiSoxFan
10-05-2007, 10:44 PM
It's all Razor's fault. He was waving his arms like a windmill all year as all those guys were rounding third heading for home and we must have had, what?, 200, 300 guys thrown out at the plate?

The Immigrant
10-05-2007, 10:48 PM
Too bad for Razor. I thought he did a fine job during the games, but I know nothing about his job performance behind the scenes.

Life goes on.

JB98
10-05-2007, 10:49 PM
It's all Razor's fault. He was waving his arms like a windmill all year as all those guys were rounding third heading for home and we must have had, what?, 200, 300 guys thrown out at the plate?

Ozzie stated that Razor did a good job this year. His job performance was not the reason for his dismissal.

champagne030
10-05-2007, 10:57 PM
No, you do nothing but bring clinically treatable anger and hatred to the fore.

Where's the anger? I said it I thought it was FUNNY Oswaldo wanted to hire a coach to stress fundamentals, but was quoted several times this season saying it wasn't the job at the big league level to teach fundamentals. I guess I am a "hater" over overrated things.....

CHISOXFAN21
10-05-2007, 11:18 PM
Shines was released because for the pure fact that he was the ONLY sox coach with the ability to take Ozzie's job. Ya, he feels safe now with that scrawny extension ...... so he took advantage of getting rid of his competition....... it's all about good ole boy politics.... flat fear on Ozzie's part. Bad Move Ozzie..... all the way around. 3rd base coaches can only wave the runners in IF WE GET BASE HITS! Keep your eyes on the horizon ... shines might be "out" but he's not down. Shines "WILL" take a team to the world series.... it's just too bad it couldn't be the sox.:angry:

TheCommander
10-05-2007, 11:37 PM
Shines was released because for the pure fact that he was the ONLY sox coach with the ability to take Ozzie's job. Ya, he feels safe now with that scrawny extension ...... so he took advantage of getting rid of his competition....... it's all about good ole boy politics.... flat fear on Ozzie's part. Bad Move Ozzie..... all the way around. 3rd base coaches can only wave the runners in IF WE GET BASE HITS! Keep your eyes on the horizon ... shines might be "out" but he's not down. Shines "WILL" take a team to the world series.... it's just too bad it couldn't be the sox.:angry:

:rolleyes:

JB98
10-05-2007, 11:48 PM
Shines was released because for the pure fact that he was the ONLY sox coach with the ability to take Ozzie's job. Ya, he feels safe now with that scrawny extension ...... so he took advantage of getting rid of his competition....... it's all about good ole boy politics.... flat fear on Ozzie's part. Bad Move Ozzie..... all the way around. 3rd base coaches can only wave the runners in IF WE GET BASE HITS! Keep your eyes on the horizon ... shines might be "out" but he's not down. Shines "WILL" take a team to the world series.... it's just too bad it couldn't be the sox.:angry:

It's too bad Ozzie has never taken the Sox to the World Series. :rolleyes:

chisox77
10-06-2007, 12:02 AM
Is there anyone named Razor Burns?

ondafarm
10-06-2007, 12:06 AM
I guess Ondafarm can forget about his wet dream of Shines replacing Ozzie.

WE'RE DOOMED!

I'd call that a pretty tasteless remark. Welcome to my ignore list.

Mod Edit: When you return in one week, review this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1659574&postcount=11) post in the thread stuck at the top of the Clubhouse which informs all who take the time to read it that we consider posting who is on your ignore list to be a personal attack.

Brian26
10-06-2007, 12:10 AM
Interesting Move.

WhiteSox5187
10-06-2007, 12:17 AM
I think it's pretty clear that Kusnyer is being moved because of medical reasons...as for Razor, I didn't think he did a bad job, but I remember people suggesting that the fact that nobody we called up could execute kinda reflected poorly on Razor. I'm not going to lose a whole lot of sleep over this. I find it curious, just kinda like why Ozzie would fire Tim Raines after last season. But I really do think that the accountability/success of coaches and managers is overrated. They can only do so much with the players they have, and really when you look at it, this was not a very talented baseball team we had out there for most of the year.

CHISOXFAN21
10-06-2007, 12:33 AM
A couple of things to note ..... I think the "talent" on the sox is and could be very VERY good... Let's face it....these men are professional baseball players and they would not have climbed to this level if they were not awesome. However, you can't get a lot from players when you lead by intimidation. "Ozzie" You can get a lot from players when you lead by example, instruction and positive reinforcement, "Razor" Shines was actually reprimanded this season for stepping out of his "Ozzie designated coaching boundaries" for attempting to assist a hitter with his swing. HELLO! While Ozzie sat on his ass looking pretty for the camera Shines actually tried to "COACH" and got in trouble for it! Ozzie isn't interested in the sox success.... jut in retaining his position and building his bank account!

FedEx227
10-06-2007, 12:52 AM
A couple of things to note ..... I think the "talent" on the sox is and could be very VERY good... Let's face it....these men are professional baseball players and they would not have climbed to this level if they were not awesome. However, you can't get a lot from players when you lead by intimidation. "Ozzie" You can get a lot from players when you lead by example, instruction and positive reinforcement, "Razor" Shines was actually reprimanded this season for stepping out of his "Ozzie designated coaching boundaries" for attempting to assist a hitter with his swing. HELLO! While Ozzie sat on his ass looking pretty for the camera Shines actually tried to "COACH" and got in trouble for it! Ozzie isn't interested in the sox success.... jut in retaining his position and building his bank account!

I'm pretty sure he brought some stale, possibly unsalted pretzels to a poker game. That's the end of the line.

Nellie_Fox
10-06-2007, 12:56 AM
Shines was released because for the pure fact that he was the ONLY sox coach with the ability to take Ozzie's job. Ya, he feels safe now with that scrawny extension ...... so he took advantage of getting rid of his competition....... it's all about good ole boy politics.... flat fear on Ozzie's part. Bad Move Ozzie..... all the way around. 3rd base coaches can only wave the runners in IF WE GET BASE HITS! Keep your eyes on the horizon ... shines might be "out" but he's not down. Shines "WILL" take a team to the world series.... it's just too bad it couldn't be the sox.:angry:

A couple of things to note ..... I think the "talent" on the Sox is and could be very VERY good... Let's face it....these men are professional baseball players and they would not have climbed to this level if they were not awesome. However, you can't get a lot from players when you lead by intimidation. "Ozzie" You can get a lot from players when you lead by example, instruction and positive reinforcement, "Razor" Shines was actually reprimanded this season for stepping out of his "Ozzie designated coaching boundaries" for attempting to assist a hitter with his swing. HELLO! While Ozzie sat on his ass looking pretty for the camera Shines actually tried to "COACH" and got in trouble for it! Ozzie isn't interested in the sox success.... jut in retaining his position and building his bank account!Unbelievable. You have now made a total of seven posts since registering, and every single one has been about Razor Shines. I don't think I've ever seen anybody obsess over a third-base coach before.

CHISOXFAN21
10-06-2007, 01:13 AM
The truth is a big pill to swallow for some..... Sometimes people just can't sit and listen to all the good ole boy B/S anymore............. Count the records, stats, and the past ........ not the # of posts........... <grin>

ilsox7
10-06-2007, 01:15 AM
The truth is a big pill to swallow for some.....

As you've obviously shown.

ChiSoxFan35
10-06-2007, 01:47 AM
It is clear there is some behind the scene thing, whether it is attitude or what. 3rd base coach, not a big deal, just keep Cora away, and this is about as meaningless as what Andy Gonzalez is doing next year

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2007, 03:35 AM
Any chance we see a major realignment? Hire Rickey Henderson to coach 1st, move Walker to coach third base, Harold to hitting coach, Nolan Ryan for bullpen coach?

TheOldRoman
10-06-2007, 03:42 AM
Anyone who blames Walker for the offensive woes is a dumbass. No hitting coach in the world is going to have a good offense that consists of Uribe Cintron Terrero Andy Gonzalez Owens Richar and a 70% healthy Toby Hall. This is debatable, but I would say Rudy Jaramillo from Texas is one of the top hitting coaches in the league, and he wouldnt have done anything with that group. At some point you have to blame the fact we are running a lineup that may not compete at a triple A level everyday because half of it has no talent offensively.

Im not giving Walk a free pass, next year he has to improve, and he needs to focus on getting guys like PK back on track. But Konerko was about the only guy who had a 'down year'. Dye sucked in the first half but always starts slow and played a huge amount of time pre all star break with bad quads. Thome was fine, AJ was off a little but AJ really is never an offensive "force". I think part of the reason PK struggled so much was no protection. He had a struggling Dye and AJ between him for a lot of the first half while Thome was hurt.

Walk gets one more season to me. If nothing is clicking by june next year, then fire him. I don't hear people calling for Coopers head because of how bad our pitching was.Bull****. You are wrong, and not just for calling anyone who disagrees with you a dumbass. The Sox didn't have the talent on offense this year, but what about past years? Walker's offenses have been horribly inconsistent. As bad as the pitching was the second half of 06, if the offense was even respectable, the Sox made the playoffs. Walker's teams put up numbers in bunches, but they are very prone to prolonged slumps. And seemingly, Walker has no clue how to get them out of the slumps. The final numbers always look good, but anyone who watches the Sox on a regular basis knows better. 12 runs one game, 2 the next, 1 in the third. Hey, 5 runs per game in that series! The offense is on fire!

I'm not sure if he even has a hitting philosophy. His idea of coaching is to have the player watch tape of themselves from earlier in their career when they were having more success. Does he actually do anything? That is like a baby sitter having a beer on the recliner and telling the little kids "hey, be where I can see you". It is ultimately up to the players to improve their performance, but if a guys is getting paid several hundred thousand dollars to say "Idunno, figure it out yourself", maybe he should be reevaluated. Walker is the man who, before a game against Johan Santana, said something along the lines of "He is so good that you can't possibly gameplan against him. If you plan, you will actually do worse, so there is no use trying. The best bet is to just go up there and swing." So, the best philosophy is to have none at all? He might as well tell them to just close their eyes and swing. They don't take pitches (other than Thome), they can't go the other way, they swing for the fences every at bat, and they are terrible against lefties (despite being mostly right handed).

SBSoxFan
10-06-2007, 06:59 AM
I think it's pretty clear that Kusnyer is being moved because of medical reasons...as for Razor, I didn't think he did a bad job, but I remember people suggesting that the fact that nobody we called up could execute kinda reflected poorly on Razor. I'm not going to lose a whole lot of sleep over this. I find it curious, just kinda like why Ozzie would fire Tim Raines after last season. But I really do think that the accountability/success of coaches and managers is overrated. They can only do so much with the players they have, and really when you look at it, this was not a very talented baseball team we had out there for most of the year.

That sure is what it sounded like from Ozzie's quotes in the article which is, I'm pretty sure, illegal. I wonder if the move was a mutual agreement?

TornLabrum
10-06-2007, 07:49 AM
That sure is what it sounded like from Ozzie's quotes in the article which is, I'm pretty sure, illegal. I wonder if the move was a mutual agreement?

I have a feeling that if he's reassigned at the same salary, reassignment for medical reasons would not be illegal. Firing him for medical reasons might be. Demoting him for medical reasons (particularly at lower salary) might be. But reassigning? I doubt it.

Frater Perdurabo
10-06-2007, 07:53 AM
Ozzie said that Cora has a "lot to do already." What does Cora do?

FarWestChicago
10-06-2007, 08:28 AM
I'm not sure if he even has a hitting philosophy. His idea of coaching is to have the player watch tape of themselves from earlier in their career when they were having more success. Does he actually do anything? That is like a baby sitter having a beer on the recliner and telling the little kids "hey, be where I can see you".:rolling:

I love that analogy. :cool:

FarWestChicago
10-06-2007, 08:30 AM
Unbelievable. You have now made a total of seven posts since registering, and every single one has been about Razor Shines. I don't think I've ever seen anybody obsess over a third-base coach before.Until proven otherwise, I'm assuming this guy is Razor! :happyguy:

bigfoot
10-06-2007, 08:30 AM
You are really reaching on this one.

Kenny Williams would never hire Razor to manage a big league team after he lost a team in A ball.

This raises an even larger question....

Why hire him to coach at the major league level at all?

....to get another year/s of MLB retirement time?
....reward for services rendered at the minor league level?(WinSalem fiasco)
....if not a future MLB mgr., what? and then why?

Steelrod
10-06-2007, 08:43 AM
Another way to look at him is reward him for long service in the minors, and now he's out of a job!

PaleHoseGeorge
10-06-2007, 10:14 AM
The Sox let a coach go and the mediots and fans are left to wonder why? The team's clubhouse is that airtight?

Sounds like the Sox are doing their job. Nobody reading this needs to know one damned thing. None of us makes a difference whether we know or not.

SBSoxFan
10-09-2007, 01:03 PM
I have a feeling that if he's reassigned at the same salary, reassignment for medical reasons would not be illegal. Firing him for medical reasons might be. Demoting him for medical reasons (particularly at lower salary) might be. But reassigning? I doubt it.

Yes, I suppose that's true. I thought, the way it was stated, that t just sounded bad in public.

thepaulbowski
10-10-2007, 10:35 AM
I have a feeling that if he's reassigned at the same salary, reassignment for medical reasons would not be illegal. Firing him for medical reasons might be. Demoting him for medical reasons (particularly at lower salary) might be. But reassigning? I doubt it.

Per the the trib article I read, it sounds like it was his request.

spawn
10-10-2007, 10:55 AM
can't believe people are getting this ticked off because a 3rd base coach was fired.

SI1020
10-12-2007, 03:18 PM
If Razor was such a lousy manager in A ball, then how did he get promoted to manage a AAA team? Just wondering. Really, this thing smacks of office politics.

my5thbench
10-14-2007, 11:40 AM
I thought Shines was cool....I have no professional opinion of him....just hate to see him go