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thedudeabides
10-03-2007, 10:30 AM
I guess this was expected. It'll be interesting to see what he signs for. Bora$$ was asking for a $20 million a year extension.

"What that did was to signal what we could fully expect," the GM said. Asked how much Boras was asking for, Schuerholz held his right hand over his head. "I can't reach that high," he quipped.
"It was so far removed from what we could even consider doing," Schuerholz added.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10385180/2

balke
10-03-2007, 10:32 AM
Until someone tells Boras "No" he'll always get his players what they want.

The Immigrant
10-03-2007, 10:40 AM
Until someone tells Boras "No" he'll always get his players what they want.

Dave Dombrowski is not helping matters.

asindc
10-03-2007, 10:45 AM
I don't anticipate Boras and Jones getting 20mil a year. Jones had a terrible contract year season. If anyone does give in (Cashman, Boston Boy Wonder anyone?), he should have his GM license revoked.

spiffie
10-03-2007, 10:47 AM
Dave Dombrowski is not helping matters.
Our payroll is higher than Detroit. We have 7 guys making over $10 million on our team. Is Kenny Williams not helping matters either?

eriqjaffe
10-03-2007, 10:59 AM
Until everyone tells Boras "No" he'll always get his players what they want.Fixed that for you.

johnr1note
10-03-2007, 12:00 PM
Until someone tells Boras "No" he'll always get his players what they want.

Well, let's start here. Especially if KW is thinking about Jones.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7436592cc3.gif

The Immigrant
10-03-2007, 12:08 PM
Our payroll is higher than Detroit. We have 7 guys making over $10 million on our team. Is Kenny Williams not helping matters either?

You're missing my point. Dombrowski gave generous multi-year deals to Ordonez, Rodriguez and Rogers (each a Boras client) when virtually no other teams would. He also negotiated the ridiculous rookie contract for Rick Porcello, another Boras client. So you see, Dave Dombrowski is a Boras-enabler. Ken Williams, not so much.

balke
10-03-2007, 12:14 PM
You're missing my point. Dombrowski gave generous multi-year deals to Ordonez, Rodriguez and Rogers (each a Boras client) when virtually no other teams would. He also negotiated the ridiculous rookie contract for Rick Porcello, another Boras client. So you see, Dave Dombrowski is a Boras-enabler. Ken Williams, not so much.

But just think, if Kenny wanted to wait just 3 measily seasons at 15 mil each, they'd have the MVP runner up of the AL.

WhiteSox5187
10-03-2007, 12:19 PM
You're missing my point. Dombrowski gave generous multi-year deals to Ordonez, Rodriguez and Rogers (each a Boras client) when virtually no other teams would. He also negotiated the ridiculous rookie contract for Rick Porcello, another Boras client. So you see, Dave Dombrowski is a Boras-enabler. Ken Williams, not so much.
All of those contracts had a ton of clauses so if those guys bombed they would hardly get any money...Boras is going to be around as long as he keeps making his clients money, now if he somehow gets named in the whole steroid thing, that could change things.

Oblong
10-03-2007, 12:27 PM
All of those contracts had a ton of clauses so if those guys bombed they would hardly get any money...Boras is going to be around as long as he keeps making his clients money, now if he somehow gets named in the whole steroid thing, that could change things.

Not bombing, but injury related. If Rodriguez and Ordonez had a flare up of their previous conditions with in a certain time frame, the back and knee, the contracts could be voided. With Rogers it was just a matter of an extra year. He was set to sign with Cleveland but they would only offer 1 year. Rogers wanted 2. So Cleveland signed Jason Johnson instead.

The Immigrant
10-03-2007, 12:34 PM
All of those contracts had a ton of clauses so if those guys bombed they would hardly get any money...Boras is going to be around as long as he keeps making his clients money, now if he somehow gets named in the whole steroid thing, that could change things.

Only the Ordonez and Rodriguez contracts had limited opt-out clauses. With Magglio, the Tigers could void the contract after 2005 if he spent 25+ days on the DL with the recurring knee injury. After the 2005 season they were on the hook for the remaining $60+ million. With Rodriguez, the Tigers could void the contract after each of the 2005 and 2006 seasons if he spent 35+ days on the DL with back problems - but they would have to pay him a $5 million buyout if they exercised this clause.

Again, the point of my post is not that these were necessarily bad contracts. My point was that Dombrowski has been more willing than most other GM's to accede to Boras's demands, and this is probably because for the longest time the Tigers had to overpay for free agents to convince them to come to Detroit.

DumpJerry
10-03-2007, 12:37 PM
Not bombing, but injury related. If Rodriguez and Ordonez had a flare up of their previous conditions with in a certain time frame, the back and knee, the contracts could be voided. With Rogers it was just a matter of an extra year. He was set to sign with Cleveland but they would only offer 1 year. Rogers wanted 2. So Cleveland signed Jason Johnson instead.
As long as Maggs did not spend more than 70 (IIRC) days on the DL in Year One of the contract for his knee, the remainder of his contract was guaranteed. Very convenient for Maggs to have that hernia situation in his first year of the contract so that he missed four months or so for that reason.

Domeshot17
10-03-2007, 12:52 PM
I actually commend Dave Dombrowski, he gets it. Scott Boras is a player's best friend. If the player is after money, he will find a team willing to pay it. If you are a player you love Boras. If you are a GM you have 2 choices, Get mad because Boras outsmarts most of you and don't deal with him, or accept the fact that most major free agents and over half of the top 20 draft picks have him as an agent.

The tigers have been able to supplement their spending on Boras clients with a great minors system that has drafted well and been willing to pay for potential. I know Verlander was a top pick, but Maybin they got as he fell because of signability, and Procello was an absolute steal.

Scott Boras is not going away, so you can either write off any player he handles as not coming here or you can accept it and deal with him. Im more afraid of how this is going to change who draft next year then who we sign. But for all the people deep pinking Arod on our team, you have to first find a way to get Kenny to work with Boras.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Dome:

It's hard to argue with your last post. As Kenny himself would say, 'it is what it is...'

The bottom line is acquiring talent by any and all means and like him or not Boras does 'control' a sizable amount of it.

I just find it hard to understand why the Sox seem to have so many issues with him where other teams appear to have found a way to work something out that benefits the player, his agent and most importantly improves the overall talent on the big league club. (Granted that doesn't always translate into overall team wins...just ask A-Rod in Texas.)

Lip

The Immigrant
10-03-2007, 01:01 PM
The tigers have been able to supplement their spending on Boras clients with a great minors system that has drafted well and been willing to pay for potential.

12 consecutive losing seasons should result in a well-stocked minors system.

Oblong
10-03-2007, 01:08 PM
As long as Maggs did not spend more than 70 (IIRC) days on the DL in Year One of the contract for his knee, the remainder of his contract was guaranteed. Very convenient for Maggs to have that hernia situation in his first year of the contract so that he missed four months or so for that reason.

Yes it was convenient. There's also team options for years 6 and 7 that kick in with plate appearance requirements in year 4, or year 4 and 5 combined. I'll be honest, I still think the jury is out. If it's only a 5 year deal then it's fine. But in those years 6 and 7 there could be a lot of Tiger fans complaining about an $18 million singles hitter which is what he was the first year and a half here.

Oblong
10-03-2007, 01:09 PM
12 consecutive losing seasons should result in a well-stocked minors system.

not with Randy Smith drafting the first 7 years of that.

The Immigrant
10-03-2007, 01:10 PM
I just find it hard to understand why the Sox seem to have so many issues with him where other teams appear to have found a way to work something out that benefits the player, his agent and most importantly improves the overall talent on the big league club.

Lip, you know better than that. Joe Crede and John Danks are both Boras clients, yet that obviously didn't stop the Sox from drafting one and trading for the other. So what's left, Magglio? One can hardly blame the Sox for letting him walk under the circumstances.

As for free agents, I would appreciate it if someone could name a current Boras client that they wish the Sox had signed to his current deal (only players who were not arbitration-eligible when the deal was inked are eligible). I really can't think of any.

skottyj242
10-03-2007, 01:19 PM
Does Scott Boras have an agent? We should hire him to do stuff for us.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2007, 02:46 PM
Imm:

And there is a lot of speculation (well founded in my opinion) that as soon as Crede shows anything he's gone via the trade route. Two players on the entire 40 man roster are his clients...that says something right there don't you think?


The Sox control Danks (as they did with Crede) for the next few seasons we'll see what happens afterwards. But my point is the animosity between the two goes back into the 90's when at least two of his clients were drafted by the Sox but they couldn't sign them.

In fact I think that was the start of it. Then you had the direct name calling from JR, the 'request' to meet with A-Rod without Boras present during the A-Rod 'negotiations' and then Williams going public with the story of how they blew him off. Boras then held a press conference saying they had no intention of meeting with the Sox after that 'request.'

This is business as the Godfather once said...it should be 'nothing personal.'

However both sides prefer to act like children in these matters.

As someone already said, the proof of the pudding will come this June in the draft. We'll see who is available when the Sox draft, who they select and who that person is represented by. That will tell us a lot.

Lip

Mohoney
10-05-2007, 01:09 AM
You're missing my point. Dombrowski gave generous multi-year deals to Ordonez, Rodriguez and Rogers (each a Boras client) when virtually no other teams would. He also negotiated the ridiculous rookie contract for Rick Porcello, another Boras client. So you see, Dave Dombrowski is a Boras-enabler. Ken Williams, not so much.

I would think that one would have to pay money ludicrouly above market value to get players to choose to join a team coming off a 43 win season.

I agree that those signings were way overpriced, but Dombrowski practically had a gun to his head.